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A buff to Khajiit?

Supernatural
Supernatural
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In this post I want to analyze how Khajiit performs in PvE and PvP.

So, what do you get as a Khajiit?
  • 20% Health Recovery. I'll be blunt about this one: Health recovery is absolutely worthless in end-game PvE. No builds will ever invest into health recovery, whether it is a DD, a healer, or tank. There is simply no reason to. In PvP, health recovery is a rather weak stat and in order to make some use out of it you will have to run specific health recovery oriented sets, such as Troll King, but anything beyond that will turn you into a tank who will not be able to kill anyone. But then again, if you wanna build for tankiness, there are other races which fullfill that role way better. Khajiit has always been a pure damage race, and was never used for its health recovery.
  • 10% Stamina Recovery. An extremely weak passive in end-game PvE. This equals to less than 100 recovery if we are running base stam regen, which in end-game PvE you will want to do in order to maximize your DPS. Somewhat decent in PvP, but overall gets outshined by other races' racials which boast out much more sustain.
  • 10% damage done while in stealth and reduced detection radius. Has no use in end-game PvE, okay-ish in solo PvE (outside of Maelstrom Arena) and PvP. Wood Elf also has this passive.
  • 8% Critical Strike Chance. The sole reason one would pick Khajiit (outside of roleplaying and looks) as their race. Unfortunately, this passive's value has been DRASTICALLY decreased over the latest patches. Warhorn changed from multiplicative to additive, proc sets not critically striking anymore and huge nerfs to the thief and the shadow (gets outcritted by the warrior mundus stone), mundus stones really killed off Khajiit. In PvP, both critical strike chance and damage are being heavily mitigated by things such as the impenetrable trait, the resistance champion point passive, as well as the impregnable set, making this passive rather weak.

Overall, I think it is pretty clear that Khajiit underperforms. In end-game PvE it is in the shadow of Redguard. Damage wise they are more or less the same (redguard does tiny more damage, but you will not notice any actual difference), but the redguard's resource management is far superior, and higher sustain equal higher DPS. In PvP, Khajiit is simply lackluster. Redguard and Wood Elf are flat out better both in damage and sustain, Imperial has very high stat pools, and Orc, Argonian and Nord have much better utility.

Khajiit needs to be buffed in a way where it will once again be the #1 for stamina PvE DPS as well as being a viable race in PvP. What am I proposing:
FIXES & IMPROVEMENTS, BASE GAME PATCH

Khajiit Skills
  • Medium Armor Expertise: This passive ability has been renamed to “Cutpurse.” Also, in addition to the current benefit it now increases your chance to successfully pickpocket by 5%.
  • Robust Constitution: This passive ability has been renamed to “Nimble.” Also, it no longer increases your Health Recovery by 6/13/20%. It now increases your Max Stamina by 2/4/6% and continues to increase your Stamina Recovery by 3/6/10%.
Anyone remember this? This is back from June 2016 (Shadows of the Hist, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/274961/pts-patch-notes-v2-5-0/p1). This change was mainly PvP focused, however it was eventually reverted, as Khajiit was already the strongest stamina PvE race by a good margin, and a 6% max stamina would make it even more powerful. However, things have changed so much since then, that I feel like it is the right time for this change to be implemented, the race really needs it. It will make Khajiit the best choice for a stamina DD once again, but not by too much, and it will actually give Khajiit something to work with in PvP. What do you think?
World's First Veteran Maelstrom Arena Nightblade 600k - 02/18/2017
  • CatchMeTrolling
    CatchMeTrolling
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    Only way Khajiit will get a buff is if they buff Wood Elves, Nords and Bretons 1st.

    Why do Bretons need a buff?
    Ebonheart Pact: Templar - Overlord - Knight Paladin Tiberium Aka The Golden Saint

  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    Izaki wrote: »
    Only way Khajiit will get a buff is if they buff Wood Elves, Nords and Bretons 1st.

    I get why Nords and Bretons, but Bosmer?! They are immune to Disease and Poisoned status effect procs from weapon enchantments and gear procs, they have massive stamina recovery and they have the stealth damage passive along with some Max Stam. One of the best PvP races for medium armor if you ask me.

    Idc bout PvP, bosmer are always listed last in pve build. Bosmer racials specialize in PvP when 90 percent of the game is pve. And redguards racial is better than bosmer recovery
    Zebendal- Stam Sorc, PC NA
  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
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    Nords, I can kinda understand but other 2? Not sure. Especially Bosmer, Bosmers don't need buff. They are the go to race if you wanna rolly polly around the field. Massive stam regen and sneak attack bonus. I'd say Khajiits are in need of a buff. At least some gain in max stamina stat, replacing that trash health recovery. Khajiits are just straight undesirable race for anything atm. Redguards and Orcs can do what Khajiits can do better, proven by the number of competent players running Redguards or Orcs. Please do not attempt to make health recovery relevant ZoS. Because last time you tried, it created more problems than it solved. Time to admit that it does nothing.
    Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel
  • lucky_Sage
    lucky_Sage
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    Only way Khajiit will get a buff is if they buff Wood Elves, Nords and Bretons 1st.

    Why do Bretons need a buff?
    but when you look at races
    pvp basically only races played are redguard, orc, high elf, dunmer(only for one class) and argonians.

    why play a wood elf when reduards have more stam and more dmg
    why play a Breton when high elves have same sustain and 4% more dmg or as a healer when argonians have better sustain and healing
    why play a nord tank when argonians have better sustain which makes up for there tankyness play extra healing

    races are very unbalanced
    Edited by lucky_Sage on January 31, 2018 5:12AM
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  • rustic_potato
    rustic_potato
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    Racial balance needs to happen. The difference between races should not be more than 2-3%. The current situation goes against ZOS's core philosophy of play how you want.
    I play how I want to.


  • CatchMeTrolling
    CatchMeTrolling
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    Only way Khajiit will get a buff is if they buff Wood Elves, Nords and Bretons 1st.

    Why do Bretons need a buff?

    The Breton magicka cost reduction passive has needed a buff since the Morrowind sustain nerfs in my opinion.

    So you think the cost reduction should be what 7-9 percent or something? I don’t know I think it’s in a good spot , increasing it too much would make their sustain too good. Especially if you use sets like seducer or alteration mastery.

    Are you saying this from a pve or pvp perspective?
    Ebonheart Pact: Templar - Overlord - Knight Paladin Tiberium Aka The Golden Saint

  • Ladislao
    Ladislao
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    Racial balance needs to happen. The difference between races should not be more than 2-3%.

    Have you tested this? What results have you got? Please, without "it's obvious".
    Recremen wrote: »
    I'd take just giving them weapon crit and spell crit. It's not a buff per-se, since hybrid builds are still not real, but it lets people who play Khajiit not be as terrible when they're forced by circumstance to play magicka.

    I agree. This is a fairly elegant and not too strong buff.
    Everything is viable
  • aeowulf
    aeowulf
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    Everything pales in the face of the mighty argonian :D Even Imperials who get 1% extra gold instead of 50% swim speed! Which i actually think it serious useful, i hate playing any other race when I fall into water now!

    TBH the races should be mostly flavour. Even Imperial feels the strain with zero resource regen, there's not many races with that, but at least they still get stat. Morrowind changes had a knock on effect on races, stat became less valuable, resources became more valuable. The 'value' or each race changed over night. Fortunately if you don't like it, you can change your race.
    Edited by aeowulf on January 31, 2018 10:15AM
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    Izaki wrote: »
    Only way Khajiit will get a buff is if they buff Wood Elves, Nords and Bretons 1st.

    I get why Nords and Bretons, but Bosmer?! They are immune to Disease and Poisoned status effect procs from weapon enchantments and gear procs, they have massive stamina recovery and they have the stealth damage passive along with some Max Stam. One of the best PvP races for medium armor if you ask me.

    So 11% stamina regen more than khajiit is now massive? :D People are running medium armor builds with ~100% modifiers or more. Even in PVE everyone has like 60%+ modifier to regen. The 11% or 12% more bosmer has over khajiit or redguard is very very low. True, it makes bosmer better in PVP than khajiit, but worse in PVE. Which I would call fair and balanced choice. If redguard did not exist...
    The only spec where bosmer is better than redguard is spec that does not fight constantly, needs high out of combat regen and can get benefit from the sneak passive. So out of 2 modes (PVE, PVP), 2 specs (stamina, magicka), 3 roles (dd, tank, healer/support), 3 armor types (light, medium, heavy), 5 classes (...) bosmer is the clear winner over redguard in just one combination :D
    PVP stamblade ganker in medium armor. I could see another combination if something like that was viable at all - stamina healer/supports.
    Edited by SodanTok on January 31, 2018 10:43AM
    PC | EU | AD
  • DDuke
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    Khajiit are just fine, I don't see why you'd want to change anything, except maybe make the crit bonus apply to spells as well (why not?).

    Give them 6% stamina on top of everything and I see no reason not to run Khajiit in PvE, it becomes meta race for everyone - hardly ideal. My stamina DK is khajiit and trust me, there's no resource management issues there.

    In PvP khajiit is fine, that 8% Crit Chance is good for both damage and healing (worth atleast 4% "healing done") and the 20% health regen is also powerful, especially if you run Troll King (and why wouldn't you, not running that set is a mistake considering how broken it is - but that's a topic for another day).

    So compared to Wood Elf for example you're trading 11% stam regen 6% max stam & poison/disease resistance for: 20% health regen, 8% crit.


    Sounds fair to me.
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • Asardes
    Asardes
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    I would tend to agree on a "% Critical Damage Done" rather than "% Maximum Stamina" passive. This would be quite balanced if it were something like 5-6% (half of Minor Force).
    Beta tester since February 2014, playing ESO-TU since October 2015
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  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    Why has Khajiit to be #1? Just curios. If any race deserves a buff it’s Nords. Besides, differences in racial passives are small. They only matter if you’re into absolute 100% min max territory, in which case looks aren’t that important anyway probably.
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    Kheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDK
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  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    Aliyavana wrote: »
    Izaki wrote: »
    Only way Khajiit will get a buff is if they buff Wood Elves, Nords and Bretons 1st.

    I get why Nords and Bretons, but Bosmer?! They are immune to Disease and Poisoned status effect procs from weapon enchantments and gear procs, they have massive stamina recovery and they have the stealth damage passive along with some Max Stam. One of the best PvP races for medium armor if you ask me.

    Idc bout PvP, bosmer are always listed last in pve build. Bosmer racials specialize in PvP when 90 percent of the game is pve. And redguards racial is better than bosmer recovery

    So completely ingore the outcome for PvP then?
    Recremen wrote: »
    I'd take just giving them weapon crit and spell crit. It's not a buff per-se, since hybrid builds are still not real, but it lets people who play Khajiit not be as terrible when they're forced by circumstance to play magicka.

    Huh? Same can be said about any race but argonians and dunmer, I guess. What are this circumstances you talk about? And how would that make a difference to e.g. an altmer being forced into stamina or a redguard into magicka? I don't get this.

  • Craziux
    Craziux
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    In my honest opinion, I wish that you could pick any race, and get around the same passives for each race, or scrap most of the passives. Race should not have to say how good you are at something, but that's kinda what it is right now.

    Anyways, this is what I'd like to see added/updated for Khajiits at maxed passives:

    Increases your Health Recovery by 22%, Stamina Recovery by 12% and Magicka Recovery by 4%.
    Increases Weapon Critical by 10%.
    Increases Max Magicka by 4%.
    Increases your Flame, Frost and Shock Damage by 2%.
    Edited by Craziux on January 31, 2018 12:48PM
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  • kylewwefan
    kylewwefan
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    I played my Orc nightblade for a long time before caving and race change to Khajit. Then the next patch, redguard became the Stam everything top dog. PvE wise anyways. I see it in the newer Stam toons I created. They have more Stam and better recovery just through race.

    Khajit still has much better Crit chance, but that doesn’t seem to really matter anymore.
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  • Chilly-McFreeze
    Chilly-McFreeze
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    Craziux wrote: »
    In my honest opinion, I wish that you could pick any race, and get around the same passives for each race, or scrap most of the passives. Race should not have to say how good you are at something, but that's kinda what it is right now.

    Anyways, this is what I'd like to see added/updated for Khajiits at maxed passives:

    Increases your Health Recovery by 22%, Stamina Recovery by 12% and Magicka Recovery by 4%.
    Increases Weapon Critical by 10%.
    Increases Max Magicka by 4%.
    Increases your Flame, Frost and Shock Damage by 2%.

    Still worse than stamina races, still worse than magicka races. Why should I pick something like that over an Altmer or a Redguard?
  • Micah_Bayer
    Micah_Bayer
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    Aliyavana wrote: »
    Izaki wrote: »
    Only way Khajiit will get a buff is if they buff Wood Elves, Nords and Bretons 1st.

    I get why Nords and Bretons, but Bosmer?! They are immune to Disease and Poisoned status effect procs from weapon enchantments and gear procs, they have massive stamina recovery and they have the stealth damage passive along with some Max Stam. One of the best PvP races for medium armor if you ask me.

    Idc bout PvP, bosmer are always listed last in pve build. Bosmer racials specialize in PvP when 90 percent of the game is pve. And redguards racial is better than bosmer recovery

    Actually it's 50/50 this was advertised as a pvp game and there is a reason monster sets came out...for pvp...there are 2 skills lines dedicated for pvp...there are titles and dyes for pvp..
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    just give khajiits spell crit and maybe a passive 3-5% dodge chance and/or 6% hp
  • Apache_Kid
    Apache_Kid
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    If you buff Khajiit as you propose there would never be any argument for me running any race other than a Khajiit for PvE Stam DPS builds.

    Currently, if you want to play with the Khajiit with the xtra crit, you need to sacrifice some sustain. This to me is balanced.


    I would be perfectly OK with adding spell-crit to the passive but that wouldn't get me to ever roll a Khajiit magicka character but it seems many people here would.
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    Apache_Kid wrote: »
    If you buff Khajiit as you propose there would never be any argument for me running any race other than a Khajiit for PvE Stam DPS builds.

    Currently, if you want to play with the Khajiit with the xtra crit, you need to sacrifice some sustain. This to me is balanced.


    I would be perfectly OK with adding spell-crit to the passive but that wouldn't get me to ever roll a Khajiit magicka character but it seems many people here would.

    I forgot to add to give khajiits the same amount of mag regen as stam regen too in my proposal. Make khajiits the crit race.
  • Apache_Kid
    Apache_Kid
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    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Apache_Kid wrote: »
    If you buff Khajiit as you propose there would never be any argument for me running any race other than a Khajiit for PvE Stam DPS builds.

    Currently, if you want to play with the Khajiit with the xtra crit, you need to sacrifice some sustain. This to me is balanced.


    I would be perfectly OK with adding spell-crit to the passive but that wouldn't get me to ever roll a Khajiit magicka character but it seems many people here would.

    I forgot to add to give khajiits the same amount of mag regen as stam regen too in my proposal. Make khajiits the crit race.

    Hmm I would be fine with this But the magicka regen should be the same as the stam regen currently is. Giving them a sustain buff to what they currently have with crit would make the BiS for every build unless it was very minimal.
  • Facefister
    Facefister
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    I think spell-crit wouldn't fit on Khajiit lore-wise. And I also think that Khajiit is fine as it is.

    How to balance Bosmer? Remove the +6% Stamina and give them 1500 physical penetration.
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