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Cliff Racer Needs Adjustment

Rickter
Rickter
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I'm sure there is a thread floating around that'ss similar, but with the recent MagDK changes in that Power Lash with be dodgeable, it's time we took a look at a similar, if not more effective dmg ability by our good friend, the Warden.

Please reference:
Screenshot_20180107_191346.jpg

disclaimer: this screenshot was taken from the perspective of a medium armor wearer.

The lack of Warden mention in the PTS patch notes is becoming disheartening as I know the community has raised alarm and called foul on this.

What's the problem? its a ranged, undodgeable, 1 sec cooldown, 5k+ dmg, spammable.

Enough is enough, we deserve better.
RickterESO
PC | NA | DC
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  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    Rickter wrote: »
    I'm sure there is a thread floating around that'ss similar, but with the recent MagDK changes in that Power Lash with be dodgeable, it's time we took a look at a similar, if not more effective dmg ability by our good friend, the Warden.

    Please reference:
    Screenshot_20180107_191346.jpg

    disclaimer: this screenshot was taken from the perspective of a medium armor wearer.

    The lack of Warden mention in the PTS patch notes is becoming disheartening as I know the community has raised alarm and called foul on this.

    What's the problem? its a ranged, undodgeable, 1 sec cooldown, 5k+ dmg, spammable.

    Enough is enough, we deserve better.

    did this person los or cloak?
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    DKsUnite wrote: »
    kinda surprised there wasn't a 10k sub assault in there but i guess it was because the warden was spamming it from 41m away.

    Is Subterranean Assault commonly paired with Screaming Cliff Racer?

    Would expect the combination to be
    Cutting Dive + Subterranean Assault
    or
    Screaming Cliff Racer + Deep Fissure
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    DKsUnite wrote: »
    kinda surprised there wasn't a 10k sub assault in there but i guess it was because the warden was spamming it from 41m away.

    Is Subterranean Assault commonly paired with Screaming Cliff Racer?

    Would expect the combination to be
    Cutting Dive + Subterranean Assault
    or
    Screaming Cliff Racer + Deep Fissure

    Yes and Fletcher Fly which would still have the full 28 meter range.
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #Nerfmire
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    DKsUnite wrote: »
    kinda surprised there wasn't a 10k sub assault in there but i guess it was because the warden was spamming it from 41m away.

    Is Subterranean Assault commonly paired with Screaming Cliff Racer?

    Would expect the combination to be
    Cutting Dive + Subterranean Assault
    or
    Screaming Cliff Racer + Deep Fissure

    Yes and Fletcher Fly which would still have the full 28 meter range.

    "Yes" as in people use the Stamina morph (Subterranean Assault) of Shalks with the Magicka morph (Screaming Cliff Racer) of Cliff Racer?
    is there a clear reason for such hybridization?
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • Caleb_Kadesh
    Caleb_Kadesh
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    If this was someone I killed with my Warden I would expect that this was from chasing someone that is actively running away in open field.
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    DKsUnite wrote: »
    kinda surprised there wasn't a 10k sub assault in there but i guess it was because the warden was spamming it from 41m away.

    Is Subterranean Assault commonly paired with Screaming Cliff Racer?

    Would expect the combination to be
    Cutting Dive + Subterranean Assault
    or
    Screaming Cliff Racer + Deep Fissure

    Yes and Fletcher Fly which would still have the full 28 meter range.

    "Yes" as in people use the Stamina morph (Subterranean Assault) of Shalks with the Magicka morph (Screaming Cliff Racer) of Cliff Racer?
    is there a clear reason for such hybridization?

    the armor debuff, although the stun version seems better for mag
  • Samadhi
    Samadhi
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    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    DKsUnite wrote: »
    kinda surprised there wasn't a 10k sub assault in there but i guess it was because the warden was spamming it from 41m away.

    Is Subterranean Assault commonly paired with Screaming Cliff Racer?

    Would expect the combination to be
    Cutting Dive + Subterranean Assault
    or
    Screaming Cliff Racer + Deep Fissure

    Yes and Fletcher Fly which would still have the full 28 meter range.

    "Yes" as in people use the Stamina morph (Subterranean Assault) of Shalks with the Magicka morph (Screaming Cliff Racer) of Cliff Racer?
    is there a clear reason for such hybridization?

    the armor debuff, although the stun version seems better for mag

    Personally use Deep Fissure (the stun morph) for CC on my Frost Witch build,
    but don't bother with Cliff Racer on that build
    would think that for a ranged magicka character Elemental Drain would be a better source of Breach?
    "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
    Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    DKsUnite wrote: »
    kinda surprised there wasn't a 10k sub assault in there but i guess it was because the warden was spamming it from 41m away.

    Is Subterranean Assault commonly paired with Screaming Cliff Racer?

    Would expect the combination to be
    Cutting Dive + Subterranean Assault
    or
    Screaming Cliff Racer + Deep Fissure

    Yes and Fletcher Fly which would still have the full 28 meter range.

    "Yes" as in people use the Stamina morph (Subterranean Assault) of Shalks with the Magicka morph (Screaming Cliff Racer) of Cliff Racer?
    is there a clear reason for such hybridization?

    No they use Cutting + Sub or Screaming + Deep. The magic will use other skill too, not spam just one. The stamina have only wrecking, Sub, Cutting , Reverse and Dawn Breaker. You don't often see Cutting, if your combo didn't do it you need to be on the defensive

    Edit: Sorry if naming the wrong morph caused confusion.
    Edited by Maura_Neysa on January 24, 2018 4:47PM
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #Nerfmire
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    Samadhi wrote: »
    JobooAGS wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    Samadhi wrote: »
    DKsUnite wrote: »
    kinda surprised there wasn't a 10k sub assault in there but i guess it was because the warden was spamming it from 41m away.

    Is Subterranean Assault commonly paired with Screaming Cliff Racer?

    Would expect the combination to be
    Cutting Dive + Subterranean Assault
    or
    Screaming Cliff Racer + Deep Fissure

    Yes and Fletcher Fly which would still have the full 28 meter range.

    "Yes" as in people use the Stamina morph (Subterranean Assault) of Shalks with the Magicka morph (Screaming Cliff Racer) of Cliff Racer?
    is there a clear reason for such hybridization?

    the armor debuff, although the stun version seems better for mag

    Personally use Deep Fissure (the stun morph) for CC on my Frost Witch build,
    but don't bother with Cliff Racer on that build
    would think that for a ranged magicka character Elemental Drain would be a better source of Breach?
    I agree, I just gave a potential reason playing devil's advocate
  • Narvuntien
    Narvuntien
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    I am pretty sure in all medium armor I have extremely fast sprint so I switch to bow roll dodge and leg it.

    I am not sure how you could code it but I feel like the cliff racer should have a longer cooldown the longer away it is cast. Since the creature has to appear dive down and fly off. Its just one cliff racer. If you roll dodge and run away you can increase the time before the next cast. You get locked out of casting the spell until the first one despawns.
  • Hurtfan
    Hurtfan
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    The reason Screaming Cliff Racer is undogable is because its extremely telegraphe. Unlike Power Lash, which can be so effectively weaved you don't see the animation at all. Because its is so telegraphed block is an extremely easy counter to it.

    Crystal frag you can see coming a mile away, it's dodge-able....

    Edit: I'm not calling for a nerf for the record...I'm anti-nerf, aka pro buff

    Edited by Hurtfan on January 24, 2018 4:51PM
    For the Pact!
    Keyboard not found, press any key to continue
  • Lord_Eomer
    Lord_Eomer
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    Its not just damn cliff racer this class need to re-balance for PVP and PVE (Mag Dps)
    Edited by Lord_Eomer on January 24, 2018 4:49PM
  • Saint_Bud
    Saint_Bud
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    The reason why warden isnt a dps class os because there is a tank, heal and damage tree. The class sucks in pve because it fit in no role. It has from evry aspect something, but nothing reall speciall. Also the duration of the skill isnt good, and they bring nothing to the group. On the other side thats the reason they good in pvp. Evry other class has there speciell disigne for what they stand, warden is just a mix of some of them.

    For pvp, they should make the bird doge and reflect able. Problem fixed.
    PVP Saint-Bud magicka Templar: AR 49
    PVE Lord Victarion mDK : dro'm-Athra-Destroyer pre Morrowind retired for crafting
    PVE Ramsay-Bolton magicka NB: Voice of Reason Clockwork City Patch retired
    VAA hm/ VHRC hm/ VSO hm/ VMOL hm/ VHOF hm/ VAS hm clear

    Stop playing PVE because its boring, content not disigned for melee players and class balance and sustain is ***
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
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    Hurtfan wrote: »
    The reason Screaming Cliff Racer is undogable is because its extremely telegraphe. Unlike Power Lash, which can be so effectively weaved you don't see the animation at all. Because its is so telegraphed block is an extremely easy counter to it.

    Crystal frag you can see coming a mile away, it's dodge-able....

    Edit: I'm not calling for a nerf for the record...I'm anti-nerf

    No where close, yes if you're watching the sorc cast it. Frags are not a moving object above the plain where you dont usually see anything moving though. Not to mention the nowhere close to the same travel times of the two.

    Personally if they added in another strong DoT I could easy see lowering the damage of Birds and Shalks. Untill it is just squeaking into last place PvE DPS (instead of being 10 minutes behind) you cant go nerfing the Wardens 2 best DPS skills
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #Nerfmire
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Stormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Hurtfan
    Hurtfan
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    Hurtfan wrote: »
    The reason Screaming Cliff Racer is undogable is because its extremely telegraphe. Unlike Power Lash, which can be so effectively weaved you don't see the animation at all. Because its is so telegraphed block is an extremely easy counter to it.

    Crystal frag you can see coming a mile away, it's dodge-able....

    Edit: I'm not calling for a nerf for the record...I'm anti-nerf

    No where close, yes if you're watching the sorc cast it. Frags are not a moving object above the plain where you dont usually see anything moving though. Not to mention the nowhere close to the same travel times of the two.

    Personally if they added in another strong DoT I could easy see lowering the damage of Birds and Shalks. Untill it is just squeaking into last place PvE DPS (instead of being 10 minutes behind) you cant go nerfing the Wardens 2 best DPS skills

    You can see the frag floating in the air above the casters hands before it's projected, while the hands are flailing around. And you can hear it too, while it's ramping up...
    Edited by Hurtfan on January 24, 2018 5:02PM
    For the Pact!
    Keyboard not found, press any key to continue
  • Jamini
    Jamini
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    If you don't block and LoS a guy spamming the same highly telegraphed skill at you for over 8s, then this is a L2P issue. I PvP on three different medium armor stam builds and I simply don't have this issue. (My DK just blocks and passively out-heals, my NB would cloak out after I saw the first bird, and my warden just heals straight through it.)

    Quite frankly, so many people are against using shields its getting kind of silly at this point. It's like every kid with their l33t a$$a$$in build wants to oneshot everything and doesn't even think that "hey, maybe unavoidable damage exists so that I might need to block sometimes." and "if you use a shield you should always die to me because everyone knows that shields make you hit like a wet noodle." (Which I will point out, isn't true. Quite frankly, shields make excellent weapons in their own right irl, and if you try dual-wielding without a proper parry knife in a SCA or similar you are a frigging idiot and will get spanked pretty damn hard..)
    "Adapt. or Die."
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    All the people on here saying this skill isn’t OP are probably wardens lmfao. There’s 3 reasons stam wardens are the fotm. 1) they have access to every good buff, mostly as a class 2) sub assault 3) bird spam.
  • Tan9oSuccka
    Tan9oSuccka
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    DKsUnite wrote: »
    kinda surprised there wasn't a 10k sub assault in there but i guess it was because the warden was spamming it from 41m away.

    So true. I usually get hit by 5 attacks instantly that never animate.

    I’ve kinda learned to just hold block if I see that stupid netch trailing someone. Cheese incoming.
    Of course I like steak. I'm a Nord, aren't I?
    -Berj Stoneheart
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    ManDraKE wrote: »
    The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff. That why the only changes to the class have been a nerf to Healing Thicket and buffs

    The reason Screaming Cliff Racer is undogable is because its extremely telegraphe. Unlike Power Lash, which can be so effectively weaved you don't see the animation at all. Because its is so telegraphed block is an extremely easy counter to it.

    That death recap is nothing but cliff racers, which means that death comes down to being caught in a bad place, by a not so good build. Where is the LA between each Cliff Racer, Subterranean Assault, Fletcher Flies, Wall? Anything to make me believe this wasn't a staged Death Recap.

    Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka

    For PvP we only need to make the bird doggeable and reflectable, that change have literally 0 effect on PvE, PvP combat is far more complex and is not just a matter of who can get higher DPS parses, so a nerf in PvP wouldn't necessarily affect the DPS output.

    And Healing thicket nerf was very related to PvE, people were skipping bosses mechanics with the absurd healing output that healing thicket used to have.

    Birds would have to be faster if they were to be dodgeable and reflectable
  • Drakkdjinn
    Drakkdjinn
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    The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff. That why the only changes to the class have been a nerf to Healing Thicket and buffs

    The reason Screaming Cliff Racer is undogable is because its extremely telegraphe. Unlike Power Lash, which can be so effectively weaved you don't see the animation at all. Because its is so telegraphed block is an extremely easy counter to it.

    That death recap is nothing but cliff racers, which means that death comes down to being caught in a bad place, by a not so good build. Where is the LA between each Cliff Racer, Subterranean Assault, Fletcher Flies, Wall? Anything to make me believe this wasn't a staged Death Recap.

    Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka

    Calm down - racer Just needs to be dodgeable, wouldn't affect PvE hardly, if at all. It's undeniably cheese in PvP for no legit reason.
    <Tertiary Meat> | <The Sleeping Dragon Inn> | <Fus-Ro-Die>

    Drakk the Berserker
    Drakk the Barbarian
    Saltasaurus Rex
    Father of the Year

    The Savior of Cyrodil
  • JobooAGS
    JobooAGS
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    Drakkdjinn wrote: »
    The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff. That why the only changes to the class have been a nerf to Healing Thicket and buffs

    The reason Screaming Cliff Racer is undogable is because its extremely telegraphe. Unlike Power Lash, which can be so effectively weaved you don't see the animation at all. Because its is so telegraphed block is an extremely easy counter to it.

    That death recap is nothing but cliff racers, which means that death comes down to being caught in a bad place, by a not so good build. Where is the LA between each Cliff Racer, Subterranean Assault, Fletcher Flies, Wall? Anything to make me believe this wasn't a staged Death Recap.

    Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka

    Calm down - racer Just needs to be dodgeable, wouldn't affect PvE hardly, if at all. It's undeniably cheese in PvP for no legit reason.

    make racer instant too, otherwise its a weaker version of snipe.
  • Smmokkee
    Smmokkee
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    The reason why the warden is a mess is because it was developed in the early stages of the game before release and then scrapped because it clearly was broken. Fast forward to the release of Morrowind and zos needs something else to justify its overpriced chapter. So they necro the warden not concerned with how broken of a class just concerned about those benjamins.
  • ManDraKE
    ManDraKE
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    JobooAGS wrote: »
    make racer instant too, otherwise its a weaker version of snipe.

    because snipe is instant ? lol
  • Nemesis7884
    Nemesis7884
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    fine nerf the racer but then BUFF other warden stuff for pve and give us back the physical damage bonus
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