The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
Cliff Racer Needs Adjustment
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JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭
you are proving my point
so you are going to make snipe undodgable like ciffracer?
No, If cliff racer were to be dodgeable. the projectile speed would have to be speed up otherwise why use it over snipe?
Because you don't need a bow for it, can't be interrupted and can even use it on a magicka build?
Increase projectile speed for stam version, and also
you are proving my point
so you are going to make snipe undodgable like ciffracer?
No, If cliff racer were to be dodgeable. the projectile speed would have to be speed up otherwise why use it over snipe?
Because you don't need a bow for it, can't be interrupted and can even use it on a magicka build?
"Don't need a bow" then why use a ranged ability if your intention is to be melee? Gap closers exist for a reason. "Can't be interrupted" If you are using snipe in someone's face that is clearly a l2p issue. You should create some distance/use gap openers so that you can safely use your ranged attacks. On mag build, why not slot force pulse instead, especially with a asylum destro?0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭
you are proving my point
so you are going to make snipe undodgable like ciffracer?
No, If cliff racer were to be dodgeable. the projectile speed would have to be speed up otherwise why use it over snipe?
Because you don't need a bow for it, can't be interrupted and can even use it on a magicka build?
Increase projectile speed for stam version, and also
you are proving my point
so you are going to make snipe undodgable like ciffracer?
No, If cliff racer were to be dodgeable. the projectile speed would have to be speed up otherwise why use it over snipe?
Because you don't need a bow for it, can't be interrupted and can even use it on a magicka build?
"Don't need a bow" then why use a ranged ability if your intention is to be melee? Gap closers exist for a reason. "Can't be interrupted" If you are using snipe in someone's face that is clearly a l2p issue. You should create some distance/use gap openers so that you can safely use your ranged attacks. On mag build, why not slot force pulse instead, especially with a asylum destro?
its nice to have some ranged ability if you dont have bow on your build when you cant in that moment be in melee range on enemy
idk if they still exist but I remember many stam build were running destro or resto staff just for insane ults and here you have no space for bow and what is going with it you cant use ranger skills from bow
or just s&b instead of bow for more surviavability outside dodge which have more and more undodgable skills with every next patch
0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
you are proving my point
so you are going to make snipe undodgable like ciffracer?
No, If cliff racer were to be dodgeable. the projectile speed would have to be speed up otherwise why use it over snipe?
Because you don't need a bow for it, can't be interrupted and can even use it on a magicka build?
"Don't need a bow" then why use a ranged ability if your intention is to be melee? Gap closers exist for a reason.
A) Because other weapons offer different advantages.
B ) Because you may be playing a magicka build.
C) Because you could use both ranged and melee skills on the same build. *mind blown*"Can't be interrupted" If you are using snipe in someone's face that is clearly a l2p issue.
And when you are using Cliffracer instead, it is not.
You should create some distance/use gap openers so that you can safely use your ranged attacks.
You don't say. Have you heard of Crushing Shock? Besides, gapclosers exist for a reason.On mag build, why not slot force pulse instead, especially with a asylum destro?
A) Force Pulse deals less damage.
B ) Force Pulse costs more magicka.
C) Force Pulse requires you to use a destruction staff.
D) Force Pulse is dodgeable.
E) Force Pulse is not delayed damage, which is useful to set up burst.
F) Depending on build, you might prefer a single hit class ability that deals magic damage over an elemental based weapon ability that delivers it's damage split up into several hits.
Welcome to ESO!
Edit: I *** hate this
appearing in my lists... Edited by ToRelax on January 25, 2018 2:02PMDAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU2 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30
https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
@Ragnarock41 I don't even use it. I main a Warden tank, if I'm going to slot damage it will be the Shalks. And with my mag Warden I've had much better luck with Deep Fissure as my "spamable" I just happen to have a good memory to know ;
- Dodgable has already been tried and failed.
- That mag Warden is last place DPS followed by stam.
- That anyone who dies to 5 Cliff Racers in a row not only is not skilled, but the got killed by someone who has barely graduated from zerg surfing snip spam.Edited by Maura_Neysa on January 25, 2018 2:36PMMaiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
ThulsaDoomDC✭✭✭noone should ever die to a spammed ability - Spamming is not effective in this game (at least if your opponent can handle himself...). A skilled warden doesn't spam birds either. It is weaved in a rotation. So first of all you didn't face a skilled opponent.
There remains basically one reason why you died there: You weren't paying attention - Not going defensive (going out of line of sight?, blocking?!, shielding?). The fact that the player hit you with almost always the same dmg value tells me that you didn't block a single of these cliff racers...
I mean seriously guys. Stop coming to forum to cry for nerfs if the solution is to use your brain... cliffracer is undodgable? some scrub is spamming it on you? easy: simply block it/ shield it and apply counter pressure with dots and timed burst.
It is an ability that is clearly visible and good to react to. But if people keep dodge rolling like maniacs even so they know the used ability is undodgeable... its a learn to play issue.
So please guys... Stop coming to forum crying for nerfs when even the photo proof shows nothing more than the OP's failure to react to the attacker AT ALL...
And no, I am not trolling or trying to be arrogant but all the "fast" complaints by people brought our pvp combat meta to the bad spot we are in today. Because ZOS simply applies nerfs according to outcry. Less asking for nerfs, more brain! If you don't know how to react to birds. Ask for help on forums. But don't cry for nerfs as first step...
Are you serious? Here is an easy scenario for what could happen;
Fighting another opponent or multiple opponents and some mag warden just spams birds in the background. Literally happened to me all night last night when 1vXing and if I didn't try to kill the warden first after figuring out where the *** he was then I was ***.XBOX NA - mDK CP 488
Better Dead Than Red0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »fine nerf the racer but then BUFF other warden stuff for pve and give us back the physical damage bonus
Why do people keep crying buff wardens in PvE, they already make great tanks and healers and stam warden dps isn’t the absolute best but it’s also still competitive same with mag warden. Not every class can be the best min max at everything. DKs make *** healers and you never hear any whining about that.
Most people who play the game are DPS and mag warden dps isn't competitive.
I don't like Cliff Racers either, but the skill doesn't do anything but damage. While that sounds good, it's only good because it is undodgable. The moment it become dodgeable is the moment it is outclassed in every way by Crushing Shock. The skill would have to be rethought if it were to be made dodgeable.
It deals more damage and costs less magicka than Force Pulse (which deals more damage than Crushing Shock). Additionally, they can be used together to land at the same time.
Further it can be beneficial that Cliffracer is a class ability and deals magic damage and deals it's damage in a single hit; likewise being a weapon ability and dealing elemental damage in several hits can be more useful for other builds.
Crushing shock interrupts, burns, chills, concusses, penetrates more, generates more crits/procs, returns magicka on a kill. Force pulse does not interrupt but does more damage and has AoE component. Plus there are Asylum Staffs that augment the skill.
The PvErs who care about their DPS use Force Pulse, not Cliff Racer, because it does more damage and debuffs. Look at the video above, she's not using birds.Edited by Joy_Division on January 25, 2018 2:34PM0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ThulsaDoomDC wrote: »noone should ever die to a spammed ability - Spamming is not effective in this game (at least if your opponent can handle himself...). A skilled warden doesn't spam birds either. It is weaved in a rotation. So first of all you didn't face a skilled opponent.
There remains basically one reason why you died there: You weren't paying attention - Not going defensive (going out of line of sight?, blocking?!, shielding?). The fact that the player hit you with almost always the same dmg value tells me that you didn't block a single of these cliff racers...
I mean seriously guys. Stop coming to forum to cry for nerfs if the solution is to use your brain... cliffracer is undodgable? some scrub is spamming it on you? easy: simply block it/ shield it and apply counter pressure with dots and timed burst.
It is an ability that is clearly visible and good to react to. But if people keep dodge rolling like maniacs even so they know the used ability is undodgeable... its a learn to play issue.
So please guys... Stop coming to forum crying for nerfs when even the photo proof shows nothing more than the OP's failure to react to the attacker AT ALL...
And no, I am not trolling or trying to be arrogant but all the "fast" complaints by people brought our pvp combat meta to the bad spot we are in today. Because ZOS simply applies nerfs according to outcry. Less asking for nerfs, more brain! If you don't know how to react to birds. Ask for help on forums. But don't cry for nerfs as first step...
Are you serious? Here is an easy scenario for what could happen;
Fighting another opponent or multiple opponents and some mag warden just spams birds in the background. Literally happened to me all night last night when 1vXing and if I didn't try to kill the warden first after figuring out where the *** he was then I was ***.
Well a 1vXr to be good needs to eliminate priority targets first, go figure.2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
Look at the bolded parts. Wardens are not at the bottom from a PvP perspective. Being dodgeable wont hurt PvE and therefore would not be a nerf to DPS there. For the sake of this topic, stop hiding behind PVE excuses when we're talking PvP. "You can't nerf my bad PvE warden no matter that the PvP performance is something completely different".
Dive doesn not benefit from being undodgeable there. Go scrap at some other skills for a buff to make wardens PvE ready. I surely would support you in that case then.
Travel time, sure. But it doesn't have a cast time, so what? Are my hardcasted frags undodgeable? No. Why? Because it is stupid AF to have a single target spam, especially with the amount of damage of dive, to be undodgeable. Frags are dodgeable, Power Lash is dodgeable, Death Stroke (an ultimate!) is dodgeable.
If the travel time is the problem, then make it faster + dodgeable.
Don't like it? Other options:
give it a cast time so we can interrupt (once...)
lower impact dmg and add the rest as a dot (hello pve)
stop encouraging dive spamming from the back of the zerg by giving additional damage for long range. Reverse it, more damage the closer you are, for the sake of balance.
It's lot of fun to have someone benefiting from hiding behind a zerg, especially with shimmering shield and Bird of Prey up.
Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on January 25, 2018 4:08PM2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »
No, because no stam warden with birds ever hits that hard.
Something like that. Imo the more damage from distance is absolutely not needed there at all. For undodgeable ability, basic birds are doing fine damage.
rewarding people for being cowards shouldn't be a thing.
If anything it should do more damage on closer ranges.
in my opinion reflect abilties should at least deflect the birds.
Popping wings on a sDk , just to get hit for 5-7k birds isn't fair.
I would agree on the first part. There is no need for it to give bonus damage for people already being in advantage of range (and for example in pursuit). It does not need to reward people being in melee, what it needs (and so does stamina bird) is more pve oriented advantage from the morph. Because it is already fine ability damage wise and utility wise (undodgeable).
As for reflect, I dont like reflect mechanics at all, so dunno. I always felt it is stupid your defense could match or even be better than offense of enemy that relies only on ranged projectile attacks. Better would be to give DKs absorb morph.
I don't want the reflect for offensive value, I mainly want protection against ranged spell spam as a sDk, and wings are veery expensive so,
I would really like to trade it with shimmering shields.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
@Ragnarock41 I don't even use it. I main a Warden tank, if I'm going to slot damage it will be the Shalks. And with my mag Warden I've had much better luck with Deep Fissure as my "spamable" I just happen to have a good memory to know ;
- Dodgable has already been tried and failed.
- That mag Warden is last place DPS followed by stam.
- That anyone who dies to 5 Cliff Racers in a row not only is not skilled, but the got killed by someone who has barely graduated from zerg surfing snip spam.
so what does being last dps has to do with PvP again?
I thought we said pve isn't an excuse for broken undodgeable 1 button spam gameplay.
If you don't even use it, why care about it?
just a week ago I was playing in no-cp , with medium f.brass(almost 30k spell resist fyi) + full impen, fighting against yet another EP magDK , then suddenly I'm getting hit by 7k+ cliff racers... what am I supposed to do? hold block and wait for my unevitable death?
On a medium armor build? with 2h/bow?Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 25, 2018 4:13PM3 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »
No, because no stam warden with birds ever hits that hard.
Something like that. Imo the more damage from distance is absolutely not needed there at all. For undodgeable ability, basic birds are doing fine damage.
rewarding people for being cowards shouldn't be a thing.
If anything it should do more damage on closer ranges.
in my opinion reflect abilties should at least deflect the birds.
Popping wings on a sDk , just to get hit for 5-7k birds isn't fair.
I would agree on the first part. There is no need for it to give bonus damage for people already being in advantage of range (and for example in pursuit). It does not need to reward people being in melee, what it needs (and so does stamina bird) is more pve oriented advantage from the morph. Because it is already fine ability damage wise and utility wise (undodgeable).
As for reflect, I dont like reflect mechanics at all, so dunno. I always felt it is stupid your defense could match or even be better than offense of enemy that relies only on ranged projectile attacks. Better would be to give DKs absorb morph.
I don't want the reflect for offensive value, I mainly want protection against ranged spell spam as a sDk, and wings are veery expensive so,
I would really like to trade it with shimmering shields.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
@Ragnarock41 I don't even use it. I main a Warden tank, if I'm going to slot damage it will be the Shalks. And with my mag Warden I've had much better luck with Deep Fissure as my "spamable" I just happen to have a good memory to know ;
- Dodgable has already been tried and failed.
- That mag Warden is last place DPS followed by stam.
- That anyone who dies to 5 Cliff Racers in a row not only is not skilled, but the got killed by someone who has barely graduated from zerg surfing snip spam.
so what does being last dps has to do with PvP again?
I thought we said pve isn't an excuse for broken undodgeable 1 button spam gameplay.
If you don't even use it, why care about it?
just a week ago I was playing in no-cp , with medium f.brass(almost 30k spell resist fyi) + full impen, fighting against yet another EP magDK , then suddenly I'm getting hit by 7k+ cliff racers... what am I supposed to do? hold block and wait for my unevitable death?
On a medium armor build? with 2h/bow?
You have the tools with 2H don't stand there attack the warden.
If it's a zerg you are going to die to something anyway.
Standing like a deer blinded by headlights is no excuse.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »If it's a zerg you are going to die to something anyway.
Best excuse ever for a broken skill. +1
4 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »If it's a zerg you are going to die to something anyway.
Best excuse ever for a broken skill. +1
That is not broken that is just an opinion, I am a stamblade and have no problem with birds.
Now sorcs, that is another story.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »If it's a zerg you are going to die to something anyway.
Best excuse ever for a broken skill. +1
That is not broken that is just an opinion, I am a stamblade and have no problem with birds.
Now sorcs, that is another story.
Now the old "Cloak is my trumph card, therefore those without cloak should have no problems as well"?
Cloak (if you cloak before they get their other bird off) get's your head out of so many situations some other classes are doomed to endure. E.g. Soul Assault.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »If it's a zerg you are going to die to something anyway.
Best excuse ever for a broken skill. +1
That is not broken that is just an opinion, I am a stamblade and have no problem with birds.
Now sorcs, that is another story.
Now the old "Cloak is my trumph card, therefore those without cloak should have no problems as well"?
Cloak (if you cloak before they get their other bird off) get's your head out of so many situations some other classes are doomed to endure. E.g. Soul Assault.
I don't have cloak slotted as it is way too unreliable, try again.
Dodge rollers need to understand that dodging can't be a one stop solution to getting out of everything either.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »If it's a zerg you are going to die to something anyway.
Best excuse ever for a broken skill. +1
That is not broken that is just an opinion, I am a stamblade and have no problem with birds.
Now sorcs, that is another story.
Now the old "Cloak is my trumph card, therefore those without cloak should have no problems as well"?
Cloak (if you cloak before they get their other bird off) get's your head out of so many situations some other classes are doomed to endure. E.g. Soul Assault.
I don't have cloak slotted as it is way too unreliable, try again.
Dodge rollers need to understand that dodging can't be a one stop solution to getting out of everything either.
You mean it shouldn't be as reliable shield stacking or permablocking? I would have added healbotting too but with the crazy amound of healing debuffs flying around it would be a farce.
Before this further derails the thread, I made a few suggestions on how to adjust birds.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on January 25, 2018 4:59PM1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Even as ranged person, I would say everyone should get some defense against ranged attacks. Expensive or bad enough not to make it viable 100% uptime in 1v1. I know shimmering is still very cheap, but the mechanic are slightly aiming at this idea, giving opportunity in 1v1 to stall the fighting to let warden waste magicka on it without getting return. Unfortunately the upfront cost is very cheap and heavy armor has too good magicka sustain.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »
No, because no stam warden with birds ever hits that hard.
Something like that. Imo the more damage from distance is absolutely not needed there at all. For undodgeable ability, basic birds are doing fine damage.
rewarding people for being cowards shouldn't be a thing.
If anything it should do more damage on closer ranges.
in my opinion reflect abilties should at least deflect the birds.
Popping wings on a sDk , just to get hit for 5-7k birds isn't fair.
I would agree on the first part. There is no need for it to give bonus damage for people already being in advantage of range (and for example in pursuit). It does not need to reward people being in melee, what it needs (and so does stamina bird) is more pve oriented advantage from the morph. Because it is already fine ability damage wise and utility wise (undodgeable).
As for reflect, I dont like reflect mechanics at all, so dunno. I always felt it is stupid your defense could match or even be better than offense of enemy that relies only on ranged projectile attacks. Better would be to give DKs absorb morph.
I don't want the reflect for offensive value, I mainly want protection against ranged spell spam as a sDk, and wings are veery expensive so,
I would really like to trade it with shimmering shields.
DK has literally wings, so the class was balanced with idea of ranged defense. Making them to absorb is just logical move (but not just make them absorb, currently they reflect barely anything, but absorb would absorb everything, which is too strong on mag dk). Sorc has the Ball of Lightning, which if it worked like Shimmering would make it defensive wise good too, for price of stun.
Edited by SodanTok on January 25, 2018 5:09PM0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Even as ranged person, I would say everyone should get some defense against ranged attacks. Expensive or bad enough not to make it viable 100% uptime in 1v1. I know shimmering is still very cheap, but the mechanic are slightly aiming at this idea, giving opportunity in 1v1 to stall the fighting to let warden waste magicka on it without getting return. Unfortunately the upfront cost is very cheap and heavy armor has too good magicka sustain.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »
No, because no stam warden with birds ever hits that hard.
Something like that. Imo the more damage from distance is absolutely not needed there at all. For undodgeable ability, basic birds are doing fine damage.
rewarding people for being cowards shouldn't be a thing.
If anything it should do more damage on closer ranges.
in my opinion reflect abilties should at least deflect the birds.
Popping wings on a sDk , just to get hit for 5-7k birds isn't fair.
I would agree on the first part. There is no need for it to give bonus damage for people already being in advantage of range (and for example in pursuit). It does not need to reward people being in melee, what it needs (and so does stamina bird) is more pve oriented advantage from the morph. Because it is already fine ability damage wise and utility wise (undodgeable).
As for reflect, I dont like reflect mechanics at all, so dunno. I always felt it is stupid your defense could match or even be better than offense of enemy that relies only on ranged projectile attacks. Better would be to give DKs absorb morph.
I don't want the reflect for offensive value, I mainly want protection against ranged spell spam as a sDk, and wings are veery expensive so,
I would really like to trade it with shimmering shields.
DK has literally wings, so the class was balanced with idea of ranged defense. Making them to absorb is just logical move (but not just make them absorb, currently they reflect barely anything, but absorb would absorb everything, which is too strong on mag dk). Sorc has the Ball of Lightning, which if it worked like Shimmering would make it defensive wise good too, for price of stun.
a slow melee class like Dk needs it more than anything else.
Warden totally does not deserve such an op ability like shimmering shield.
And yes, if the wings worked on everything it would be OP on mDKs,
this is why I mainly want a stamina morph for wings, because a cheaper magicka wing would be a massive mDk buff.
A stamina wings morph with like, 2-3k stam cost, 3 projectiles reflected(or absorbed), and maybe a short snare immunity.Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 25, 2018 5:32PM2 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm sure there is a thread floating around that'ss similar, but with the recent MagDK changes in that Power Lash with be dodgeable, it's time we took a look at a similar, if not more effective dmg ability by our good friend, the Warden.
Please reference:
disclaimer: this screenshot was taken from the perspective of a medium armor wearer.
The lack of Warden mention in the PTS patch notes is becoming disheartening as I know the community has raised alarm and called foul on this.
What's the problem? its a ranged, undodgeable, 1 sec cooldown, 5k+ dmg, spammable.
Enough is enough, we deserve better.
I hit a 9500 damage bird on a medium armor stamblade yesterday. I think that's all that needs to be said2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm sure there is a thread floating around that'ss similar, but with the recent MagDK changes in that Power Lash with be dodgeable, it's time we took a look at a similar, if not more effective dmg ability by our good friend, the Warden.
Please reference:
disclaimer: this screenshot was taken from the perspective of a medium armor wearer.
The lack of Warden mention in the PTS patch notes is becoming disheartening as I know the community has raised alarm and called foul on this.
What's the problem? its a ranged, undodgeable, 1 sec cooldown, 5k+ dmg, spammable.
Enough is enough, we deserve better.
I hit a 9500 damage bird on a medium armor stamblade yesterday. I think that's all that needs to be said
got hit 8.5k once, on a heavy armor build.(was a 5-1-1 but still, its heavy armor)
I was fighting someone else and suddenly %70 of my hp was gone by 2 birds.Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 25, 2018 5:34PM0 -
Venom4You✭✭✭ThulsaDoomDC wrote: »noone should ever die to a spammed ability - Spamming is not effective in this game (at least if your opponent can handle himself...). A skilled warden doesn't spam birds either. It is weaved in a rotation. So first of all you didn't face a skilled opponent.
There remains basically one reason why you died there: You weren't paying attention - Not going defensive (going out of line of sight?, blocking?!, shielding?). The fact that the player hit you with almost always the same dmg value tells me that you didn't block a single of these cliff racers...
I mean seriously guys. Stop coming to forum to cry for nerfs if the solution is to use your brain... cliffracer is undodgable? some scrub is spamming it on you? easy: simply block it/ shield it and apply counter pressure with dots and timed burst.
It is an ability that is clearly visible and good to react to. But if people keep dodge rolling like maniacs even so they know the used ability is undodgeable... its a learn to play issue.
So please guys... Stop coming to forum crying for nerfs when even the photo proof shows nothing more than the OP's failure to react to the attacker AT ALL...
And no, I am not trolling or trying to be arrogant but all the "fast" complaints by people brought our pvp combat meta to the bad spot we are in today. Because ZOS simply applies nerfs according to outcry. Less asking for nerfs, more brain! If you don't know how to react to birds. Ask for help on forums. But don't cry for nerfs as first step...
Are you serious? Here is an easy scenario for what could happen;
Fighting another opponent or multiple opponents and some mag warden just spams birds in the background. Literally happened to me all night last night when 1vXing and if I didn't try to kill the warden first after figuring out where the *** he was then I was ***.
You said it yourself: focus the warden first. Its part of small scale to chose priority targets. Warden's offense has been designed to be mainly a hard counter to stam blades defense, while his defense is a hard counter to magsorcs offense. In the first place I have been talking about a 1v1 scenario which was suggested by the posted screenshot which only showed dmg attacks of one player. Ofc wardens hard counter gets a lot harder to deal with when fighting multiple opponents. But you basically said it yourself: Adapt to the fight and attack the warden first.
There will always be fights where you are up against enemies whomes skills are designed to hard counter your gameplay. Its not like warden is the first class to offer such skills. Just some examples: Templars Purifying Ritual: Cancer for DKs who work with DoT pressure. Mag Sorcs Curse: Cancer for NB which tries to cloak away. NBs fear breaking permablock or defense of any class and permablocking. So cliff racer, as undodgable skill, counters medium armor users (only really meta for stam blades). So if you look at it like that? Is the skill really OP? I don't think so. What I demanded in my post is that people should first start to think about what they can do better before crying out loud on forums and demanding nerfs. IMO is legitimate that wardens offensive skill is designed to hard counter medium armor builds and thereby its normal that this skill will appear on your death recap if running such a build.
I played many different classes in small scale. StamNB for the longest time. I don't think a skill is broken just because it has been designed to *** up my specific defense - Sometimes you just gotta lose.
Aka Crowley
Member of Zerg Squad (EP/AD - EU)
Role: Raid Healer
Main Characters: Majestic Crowley (Warden Healer - EP) / Father Crowley (Templar Healer - AD) / Brother Crowley (Templar Healer - DC)2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just a thing about force pulse
Counts as 3 separate attacks at once, pwns Wings
Triggers multiple effects
Instant, unreflectable
Cuz it counts as 3, a lot of nifty mechanics0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ThulsaDoomDC wrote: »noone should ever die to a spammed ability - Spamming is not effective in this game (at least if your opponent can handle himself...). A skilled warden doesn't spam birds either. It is weaved in a rotation. So first of all you didn't face a skilled opponent.
There remains basically one reason why you died there: You weren't paying attention - Not going defensive (going out of line of sight?, blocking?!, shielding?). The fact that the player hit you with almost always the same dmg value tells me that you didn't block a single of these cliff racers...
I mean seriously guys. Stop coming to forum to cry for nerfs if the solution is to use your brain... cliffracer is undodgable? some scrub is spamming it on you? easy: simply block it/ shield it and apply counter pressure with dots and timed burst.
It is an ability that is clearly visible and good to react to. But if people keep dodge rolling like maniacs even so they know the used ability is undodgeable... its a learn to play issue.
So please guys... Stop coming to forum crying for nerfs when even the photo proof shows nothing more than the OP's failure to react to the attacker AT ALL...
And no, I am not trolling or trying to be arrogant but all the "fast" complaints by people brought our pvp combat meta to the bad spot we are in today. Because ZOS simply applies nerfs according to outcry. Less asking for nerfs, more brain! If you don't know how to react to birds. Ask for help on forums. But don't cry for nerfs as first step...
Are you serious? Here is an easy scenario for what could happen;
Fighting another opponent or multiple opponents and some mag warden just spams birds in the background. Literally happened to me all night last night when 1vXing and if I didn't try to kill the warden first after figuring out where the *** he was then I was ***.
You said it yourself: focus the warden first. Its part of small scale to chose priority targets. Warden's offense has been designed to be mainly a hard counter to stam blades defense, while his defense is a hard counter to magsorcs offense. In the first place I have been talking about a 1v1 scenario which was suggested by the posted screenshot which only showed dmg attacks of one player. Ofc wardens hard counter gets a lot harder to deal with when fighting multiple opponents. But you basically said it yourself: Adapt to the fight and attack the warden first.
There will always be fights where you are up against enemies whomes skills are designed to hard counter your gameplay. Its not like warden is the first class to offer such skills. Just some examples: Templars Purifying Ritual: Cancer for DKs who work with DoT pressure. Mag Sorcs Curse: Cancer for NB which tries to cloak away. NBs fear breaking permablock or defense of any class and permablocking. So cliff racer, as undodgable skill, counters medium armor users (only really meta for stam blades). So if you look at it like that? Is the skill really OP? I don't think so. What I demanded in my post is that people should first start to think about what they can do better before crying out loud on forums and demanding nerfs. IMO is legitimate that wardens offensive skill is designed to hard counter medium armor builds and thereby its normal that this skill will appear on your death recap if running such a build.
I played many different classes in small scale. StamNB for the longest time. I don't think a skill is broken just because it has been designed to *** up my specific defense - Sometimes you just gotta lose.
Except warden is also the single most survivable class in pvp, if you focus him and don't get a quick kill then his group will already have pushed you to the point that the warden can dominate you with the undodgeable combo of fissure+birds and you'll have played right into his hands by getting yourself into a range where he can much more easily aim fissure. You're forced to dodge to avoid the damage the other players are putting on you and while you're doing that the warden is delivering 10k+ damage to you mid roll.
The best counter to birds as a medium build is to disengage the fight.Edited by Lexxypwns on January 25, 2018 6:32PM2 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
Look at the bolded parts. Wardens are not at the bottom from a PvP perspective. Being dodgeable wont hurt PvE and therefore would not be a nerf to DPS there. For the sake of this topic, stop hiding behind PVE excuses when we're talking PvP. "You can't nerf my bad PvE warden no matter that the PvP performance is something completely different".
Dive doesn not benefit from being undodgeable there. Go scrap at some other skills for a buff to make wardens PvE ready. I surely would support you in that case then.
Travel time, sure. But it doesn't have a cast time, so what? Are my hardcasted frags undodgeable? No. Why? Because it is stupid AF to have a single target spam, especially with the amount of damage of dive, to be undodgeable. Frags are dodgeable, Power Lash is dodgeable, Death Stroke (an ultimate!) is dodgeable.
If the travel time is the problem, then make it faster + dodgeable.
Don't like it? Other options:
give it a cast time so we can interrupt (once...)
lower impact dmg and add the rest as a dot (hello pve)
stop encouraging dive spamming from the back of the zerg by giving additional damage for long range. Reverse it, more damage the closer you are, for the sake of balance.
It's lot of fun to have someone benefiting from hiding behind a zerg, especially with shimmering shield and Bird of Prey up.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »
No, because no stam warden with birds ever hits that hard.
Something like that. Imo the more damage from distance is absolutely not needed there at all. For undodgeable ability, basic birds are doing fine damage.
rewarding people for being cowards shouldn't be a thing.
If anything it should do more damage on closer ranges.
in my opinion reflect abilties should at least deflect the birds.
Popping wings on a sDk , just to get hit for 5-7k birds isn't fair.
I would agree on the first part. There is no need for it to give bonus damage for people already being in advantage of range (and for example in pursuit). It does not need to reward people being in melee, what it needs (and so does stamina bird) is more pve oriented advantage from the morph. Because it is already fine ability damage wise and utility wise (undodgeable).
As for reflect, I dont like reflect mechanics at all, so dunno. I always felt it is stupid your defense could match or even be better than offense of enemy that relies only on ranged projectile attacks. Better would be to give DKs absorb morph.
I don't want the reflect for offensive value, I mainly want protection against ranged spell spam as a sDk, and wings are veery expensive so,
I would really like to trade it with shimmering shields.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
@Ragnarock41 I don't even use it. I main a Warden tank, if I'm going to slot damage it will be the Shalks. And with my mag Warden I've had much better luck with Deep Fissure as my "spamable" I just happen to have a good memory to know ;
- Dodgable has already been tried and failed.
- That mag Warden is last place DPS followed by stam.
- That anyone who dies to 5 Cliff Racers in a row not only is not skilled, but the got killed by someone who has barely graduated from zerg surfing snip spam.
so what does being last dps has to do with PvP again?
I thought we said pve isn't an excuse for broken undodgeable 1 button spam gameplay.
If you don't even use it, why care about it?
just a week ago I was playing in no-cp , with medium f.brass(almost 30k spell resist fyi) + full impen, fighting against yet another EP magDK , then suddenly I'm getting hit by 7k+ cliff racers... what am I supposed to do? hold block and wait for my unevitable death?
On a medium armor build? with 2h/bow?
Again, already covered by the devs at 35 min 30 sec. It started out dodgable, it was stupidly easy to dodge. PvP or PvE they are still last place. PvP they are just an exceptable last place. There is a reason no one ever takes the Warden bounty. Just like with a NB either they have enough burst to kill you and its over quick or they don't have the burst in which case its laughable how many times they can line it up and fail.
Edit: And a Wardens burst potential is no where close to as good as a NBEdited by Maura_Neysa on January 25, 2018 11:43PMMaiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.1 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Let’s also nerf surprise attack spam with incap too then
Sure we'll just nerf everything until no one can kill anyone, will that be better?Edited by Maura_Neysa on January 25, 2018 11:45PMMaiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.3 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
Look at the bolded parts. Wardens are not at the bottom from a PvP perspective. Being dodgeable wont hurt PvE and therefore would not be a nerf to DPS there. For the sake of this topic, stop hiding behind PVE excuses when we're talking PvP. "You can't nerf my bad PvE warden no matter that the PvP performance is something completely different".
Dive doesn not benefit from being undodgeable there. Go scrap at some other skills for a buff to make wardens PvE ready. I surely would support you in that case then.
Travel time, sure. But it doesn't have a cast time, so what? Are my hardcasted frags undodgeable? No. Why? Because it is stupid AF to have a single target spam, especially with the amount of damage of dive, to be undodgeable. Frags are dodgeable, Power Lash is dodgeable, Death Stroke (an ultimate!) is dodgeable.
If the travel time is the problem, then make it faster + dodgeable.
Don't like it? Other options:
give it a cast time so we can interrupt (once...)
lower impact dmg and add the rest as a dot (hello pve)
stop encouraging dive spamming from the back of the zerg by giving additional damage for long range. Reverse it, more damage the closer you are, for the sake of balance.
It's lot of fun to have someone benefiting from hiding behind a zerg, especially with shimmering shield and Bird of Prey up.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »
No, because no stam warden with birds ever hits that hard.
Something like that. Imo the more damage from distance is absolutely not needed there at all. For undodgeable ability, basic birds are doing fine damage.
rewarding people for being cowards shouldn't be a thing.
If anything it should do more damage on closer ranges.
in my opinion reflect abilties should at least deflect the birds.
Popping wings on a sDk , just to get hit for 5-7k birds isn't fair.
I would agree on the first part. There is no need for it to give bonus damage for people already being in advantage of range (and for example in pursuit). It does not need to reward people being in melee, what it needs (and so does stamina bird) is more pve oriented advantage from the morph. Because it is already fine ability damage wise and utility wise (undodgeable).
As for reflect, I dont like reflect mechanics at all, so dunno. I always felt it is stupid your defense could match or even be better than offense of enemy that relies only on ranged projectile attacks. Better would be to give DKs absorb morph.
I don't want the reflect for offensive value, I mainly want protection against ranged spell spam as a sDk, and wings are veery expensive so,
I would really like to trade it with shimmering shields.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
@Ragnarock41 I don't even use it. I main a Warden tank, if I'm going to slot damage it will be the Shalks. And with my mag Warden I've had much better luck with Deep Fissure as my "spamable" I just happen to have a good memory to know ;
- Dodgable has already been tried and failed.
- That mag Warden is last place DPS followed by stam.
- That anyone who dies to 5 Cliff Racers in a row not only is not skilled, but the got killed by someone who has barely graduated from zerg surfing snip spam.
so what does being last dps has to do with PvP again?
I thought we said pve isn't an excuse for broken undodgeable 1 button spam gameplay.
If you don't even use it, why care about it?
just a week ago I was playing in no-cp , with medium f.brass(almost 30k spell resist fyi) + full impen, fighting against yet another EP magDK , then suddenly I'm getting hit by 7k+ cliff racers... what am I supposed to do? hold block and wait for my unevitable death?
On a medium armor build? with 2h/bow?
Again, already covered by the devs at 35 min 30 sec. It started out dodgable, it was stupidly easy to dodge. PvP or PvE they are still last place. PvP they are just an exceptable last place. There is a reason no one ever takes the Warden bounty. Just like with a NB either they have enough burst to kill you and its over quick or they don't have the burst in which case its laughable how many times they can line it up and fail.
Edit: And a Wardens burst potential is no where close to as good as a NB
Exceptable last place in PvP.. Aha..
And again:
"If the travel time is the problem, then make it faster + dodgeable.
Don't like it? Other options:
give it a cast time so we can interrupt (once...)
lower impact dmg and add the rest as a dot (hello pve)
stop encouraging dive spamming from the back of the zerg by giving additional damage for long range. Reverse it, more damage the closer you are, for the sake of balance."
You want to reply to that part too?1 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let´s talk about the reality:
- how long does it take to get killquests done?:
- 20 sorceres: 10 Minutes
- 20 enemy players: 5 minutes
- 20 nightblades: 12 minutes
- 20 templars: 15 minutes
- 20 dragonknights: 17 minutes
- 20 wardens: 75 minutes!!!
average of last 3 months, VIVEC-EU-PC)
and now tell me what is your problem?
ah, you just ran into the one and only grp of 2 wardens lvling their alts in cyro!, LoLEdited by Azurya on January 26, 2018 10:37AM0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
Look at the bolded parts. Wardens are not at the bottom from a PvP perspective. Being dodgeable wont hurt PvE and therefore would not be a nerf to DPS there. For the sake of this topic, stop hiding behind PVE excuses when we're talking PvP. "You can't nerf my bad PvE warden no matter that the PvP performance is something completely different".
Dive doesn not benefit from being undodgeable there. Go scrap at some other skills for a buff to make wardens PvE ready. I surely would support you in that case then.
Travel time, sure. But it doesn't have a cast time, so what? Are my hardcasted frags undodgeable? No. Why? Because it is stupid AF to have a single target spam, especially with the amount of damage of dive, to be undodgeable. Frags are dodgeable, Power Lash is dodgeable, Death Stroke (an ultimate!) is dodgeable.
If the travel time is the problem, then make it faster + dodgeable.
Don't like it? Other options:
give it a cast time so we can interrupt (once...)
lower impact dmg and add the rest as a dot (hello pve)
stop encouraging dive spamming from the back of the zerg by giving additional damage for long range. Reverse it, more damage the closer you are, for the sake of balance.
It's lot of fun to have someone benefiting from hiding behind a zerg, especially with shimmering shield and Bird of Prey up.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »
No, because no stam warden with birds ever hits that hard.
Something like that. Imo the more damage from distance is absolutely not needed there at all. For undodgeable ability, basic birds are doing fine damage.
rewarding people for being cowards shouldn't be a thing.
If anything it should do more damage on closer ranges.
in my opinion reflect abilties should at least deflect the birds.
Popping wings on a sDk , just to get hit for 5-7k birds isn't fair.
I would agree on the first part. There is no need for it to give bonus damage for people already being in advantage of range (and for example in pursuit). It does not need to reward people being in melee, what it needs (and so does stamina bird) is more pve oriented advantage from the morph. Because it is already fine ability damage wise and utility wise (undodgeable).
As for reflect, I dont like reflect mechanics at all, so dunno. I always felt it is stupid your defense could match or even be better than offense of enemy that relies only on ranged projectile attacks. Better would be to give DKs absorb morph.
I don't want the reflect for offensive value, I mainly want protection against ranged spell spam as a sDk, and wings are veery expensive so,
I would really like to trade it with shimmering shields.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
@Ragnarock41 I don't even use it. I main a Warden tank, if I'm going to slot damage it will be the Shalks. And with my mag Warden I've had much better luck with Deep Fissure as my "spamable" I just happen to have a good memory to know ;
- Dodgable has already been tried and failed.
- That mag Warden is last place DPS followed by stam.
- That anyone who dies to 5 Cliff Racers in a row not only is not skilled, but the got killed by someone who has barely graduated from zerg surfing snip spam.
so what does being last dps has to do with PvP again?
I thought we said pve isn't an excuse for broken undodgeable 1 button spam gameplay.
If you don't even use it, why care about it?
just a week ago I was playing in no-cp , with medium f.brass(almost 30k spell resist fyi) + full impen, fighting against yet another EP magDK , then suddenly I'm getting hit by 7k+ cliff racers... what am I supposed to do? hold block and wait for my unevitable death?
On a medium armor build? with 2h/bow?
Again, already covered by the devs at 35 min 30 sec. It started out dodgable, it was stupidly easy to dodge. PvP or PvE they are still last place. PvP they are just an exceptable last place. There is a reason no one ever takes the Warden bounty. Just like with a NB either they have enough burst to kill you and its over quick or they don't have the burst in which case its laughable how many times they can line it up and fail.
Edit: And a Wardens burst potential is no where close to as good as a NB
I think we are all aware of the opinion of the responsible devs. But a lot of things are "stupidly easy to dodge" and still being used, for the same reason any attacks are being used in PvP that you already know will be reacted to: to pressure your opponent. It's not because of the faster travel time people don't dodge every single projectile aimed at them.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU2 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Let´s talk about the reality:
- how long does it take to get killquests done?:
- 20 sorceres: 10 Minutes
- 20 enemy players: 5 minutes
- 20 nightblades: 12 minutes
- 20 templars: 15 minutes
- 20 dragonknights: 17 minutes
- 20 wardens: 75 minutes!!!
average of last 3 months, VIVEC-EU-PC)
and now tell me what is your problem?
ah, you just ran into the one and only grp of 2 wardens lvling their alts in cyro!, LoL
Maybe they take 75 minutes because they are to hard to kill?
If i have warden quest it's done after 1 castle defend (approx 20 mins)٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."2
