Cliff Racer Needs Adjustment

KingYogi415

Did you just stand there not blocking or healing. LOL

Edziu

Venom4You wrote: »

noone should ever die to a spammed ability - Spamming is not effective in this game (at least if your opponent can handle himself...). A skilled warden doesn't spam birds either. It is weaved in a rotation. So first of all you didn't face a skilled opponent.
There remains basically one reason why you died there: You weren't paying attention - Not going defensive (going out of line of sight?, blocking?!, shielding?). The fact that the player hit you with almost always the same dmg value tells me that you didn't block a single of these cliff racers...
I mean seriously guys. Stop coming to forum to cry for nerfs if the solution is to use your brain... cliffracer is undodgable? some scrub is spamming it on you? easy: simply block it/ shield it and apply counter pressure with dots and timed burst.
It is an ability that is clearly visible and good to react to. But if people keep dodge rolling like maniacs even so they know the used ability is undodgeable... its a learn to play issue.
So please guys... Stop coming to forum crying for nerfs when even the photo proof shows nothing more than the OP's failure to react to the attacker AT ALL...

And no, I am not trolling or trying to be arrogant but all the "fast" complaints by people brought our pvp combat meta to the bad spot we are in today. Because ZOS simply applies nerfs according to outcry. Less asking for nerfs, more brain! If you don't know how to react to birds. Ask for help on forums. But don't cry for nerfs as first step...

so, I try to just try run away on flat groud, so now I should to block it? to almost immobilize myselfwith block my most important regen? (in medium armor and no shield ofc)

shielding? please give me stamina scale damage shield at fine then

even if cloak...again, not working always because of broken lag issues with server or just det potion and gg, can I have potion to ignore people blocking or shields please?

medium armor isnt to blok every spammable hit like cliffracer, we have big big problem with just stamina to block full soul assault channel with blocking our stam regen so what now with just blocking every spammable hit?

Wreuntzylla

I don't PvP as a warden and I do PvP as a near perma-roller. I don't like cliff racer. In fact, it can get me raging. But that's because it's one of the few common damage sources I can't avoid with my build.

You folks stumping for a dodgeable cliff racer should remember how good dodge really is compared to any other type of mitigation or damage avoidance (except possibly shields). If they nerf cliff racer, they are probably also going to nerf dodge. I think it's probably better not to feed these threads.

LadyLavina

Oh hey another "I got wrecked by this so please nerf it into the ground" thread.

Bad OP, go sit in the corner and learn to mitigate.

TequilaFire

More crybaby posts.
And no I am not a Warden!

JobooAGS

ManDraKE wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

make racer instant too, otherwise its a weaker version of snipe.

because snipe is instant ? lol

cliff racer is delayed, and therefore telegraphed

Rickter

SydneyGrey wrote: »

People want to wear medium and light armor in PvP because they do the best damage that way, then cry if they get killed.

false. It's widely known heavy armor sets like ravagers, 7th legion, Truth, etc provide the better dmg.

nice try though.

Rickter

Iccotak

Question: Why are almost all fo the Warden animal powers modeled after Morrowind? Why does it have to be a cliff racer? Why can't it be a falcon, eagle, etc. Why don't the powers show animals from all across tamriel?

LadyLavina

Iccotak wrote: »

Question: Why are almost all fo the Warden animal powers modeled after Morrowind? Why does it have to be a cliff racer? Why can't it be a falcon, eagle, etc. Why don't the powers show animals from all across tamriel?

This would be neat, perhaps it could vary based on morph choice, or even an rotation of a few different ones. Maybe crits are an eagle. idk

ManDraKE

JobooAGS wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

make racer instant too, otherwise its a weaker version of snipe.

because snipe is instant ? lol

cliff racer is delayed, and therefore telegraphed

snipe have a cast time plus a travel time that makes the hit very delayed.......

xaraan

I've run warden in pvp a lot (and fought them in pvp a lot), you have to be pretty bad to die from nothing but cliff racer spam tbh. Either get in the fight or get out, and once you are in, if you decide to try and run, dodge rolling shouldn't be auto win for those running away from fights they started. If you are in the face of the warden pressuring them, this isn't going to happen - which is why it's not as OP as some try to paint it - it's very situational as a spammable. There is a reason when you fight a warden in a normal fight, they do other stuff than just spam this one skill.

Also - posting a death recap means NOTHING in the way of proving any points - get tired of seeing them with people pointing to them like "A-Ha!". We don't know how good or bad either play is or (all of) the gear of both players. We don't know the context - is someone on a keep wall and this guy was seiging and not worrying about what was happening. etc. - and not just talking about this post, but every time someone uses it as proof a skill is strong. It's horrible proof and the only real use of these types of caps are for amusement.

If the skill was going to be made dodgeable, then it definitely needs to be reworked completely or it would just be worthless for pvp with as slow as it is. But it really isn't that bad as is. Every player that can't handle losing to a particular thing they can't master in pvp games makes this complaint - seen it in every player vs player game I've ever been in - it's never on them, it's always this skill or this piece of gears fault for their loss.

Anethum

JobooAGS wrote: »

did this person los or cloak?

U have cloak only on nightblade. And 1 detect pot ruin your cloak for 15.7 seconds. Also mage light, lingering light, expert hunter and all aoe. So?

SodanTok

Its always the magicka cliff racer. Guess why.

olsborg

Afaik all the warden class DD skills are undodgeable, and birds is a ranged skill. It needs to be dodgeable since it can be spammed 1 per sec.

Dracane

Undodgeable Cliffracers annoyed me a lot, especially when outnumbered.
Still I think they should remain as they are, because it's all that magicka Wardens really have.

If we compare it to other spammable damage abilities, cliffracers offers nothing other than being undodgeable. It applies no debuff, utility or secondary effects. It's just straight damage.

Thogard

Bird spam is the easiest thing in the world to tap-block

I’m a Stam Warden these days. Don’t even slot birds because it only works against bad players

Edit: for clarity, warden is OP. But it’s the shim shield and the beetles that make it OP. Birds is just Templar jabs with AOE and burning light trades for range.

Edziu

Dracane wrote: »

Undodgeable Cliffracers annoyed me a lot, especially when outnumbered.
Still I think they should remain as they are, because it's all that magicka Wardens really have.

If we compare it to other spammable damage abilities, cliffracers offers nothing other than being undodgeable. It applies no debuff, utility or secondary effects. It's just straight damage.

so if ZOS will make stupid new class necromancer thne I just waiting with hope they will have spammable skill weak similiar to warden clif racer but skill which will ignore normal block while for shields we still have shieldbreaker

PlagueSD

Hurtfan wrote: »

You can see the frag floating in the air above the casters hands before it's projected, while the hands are flailing around. And you can hear it too, while it's ramping up...

nobody casts Crystal Frag in PvP or PvE. They should be procing the insta-cast.

As far as warden bird spam goes, if you're caught in an open area you shouldn't even try to run away. (Warden's are faster than you). If you can't LOS them, then charge them. Make them go on the defensive. If anything should change about Cliff Racer is that it should be the LAST skill in the Animal Companions skill line (the same thing happened to Snipe). That's the ONLY change to this skill that I approve of.

NyassaV

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff. That why the only changes to the class have been a nerf to Healing Thicket and buffs

The reason Screaming Cliff Racer is undogable is because its extremely telegraphe. Unlike Power Lash, which can be so effectively weaved you don't see the animation at all. Because its is so telegraphed block is an extremely easy counter to it.

That death recap is nothing but cliff racers, which means that death comes down to being caught in a bad place, by a not so good build. Where is the LA between each Cliff Racer, Subterranean Assault, Fletcher Flies, Wall? Anything to make me believe this wasn't a staged Death Recap.

Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka

So you only play one part of the game. Noted, moving on!

I've been hit with 7k cliffracers to it really needs changing

Mazbt

In principle I want the birds to become dodgeable and lick the tears of those pvpers in disagreement, but in reality its best to put some points into block cost reduction cp (take a few points out of tumbling) and try not to be caught in the open as often.

Edziu

Thogard wrote: »

Bird spam is the easiest thing in the world to tap-block

I’m a Stam Warden these days. Don’t even slot birds because it only works against bad players

Edit: for clarity, warden is OP. But it’s the shim shield and the beetles that make it OP. Birds is just Templar jabs with AOE and burning light trades for range.

lol?
as you mentioned jabs are melee range, yes, but also you need to rotate your camera with char to hit your target because this isnt like any other normal skill to target enemy and spam skills, on templar with jabs you need to rotate your char to hit him

templar also itslef have probably the worst sustain in game of all classes

templar also have no mobility like warden have speedbuff for 10+ secs while any other class buffs are max for 4 sec..

warden can spam it on rage, templar only thing spammable on range is just beam execute which was nerfed many times and dont work form 100% health of your enemy

so templar is forced to fight in melee range with ofc hard to work gap closer like nb cloak

I dont want to mention also how templar get many nerf with healing, major mendind and then we got warden with not only better sustain but also capable of heals like templar with also tankniess of dk

so as for me I dont see good point comparing cliff racer long range spammable to templar jabs on melee

Thogard

Edziu wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Bird spam is the easiest thing in the world to tap-block

I’m a Stam Warden these days. Don’t even slot birds because it only works against bad players

Edit: for clarity, warden is OP. But it’s the shim shield and the beetles that make it OP. Birds is just Templar jabs with AOE and burning light trades for range.

lol?
as you mentioned jabs are melee range, yes, but also you need to rotate your camera with char to hit your target because this isnt like any other normal skill to target enemy and spam skills, on templar with jabs you need to rotate your char to hit him

templar also itslef have probably the worst sustain in game of all classes

templar also have no mobility like warden have speedbuff for 10+ secs while any other class buffs are max for 4 sec..

warden can spam it on rage, templar only thing spammable on range is just beam execute which was nerfed many times and dont work form 100% health of your enemy

so templar is forced to fight in melee range with ofc hard to work gap closer like nb cloak

I dont want to mention also how templar get many nerf with healing, major mendind and then we got warden with not only better sustain but also capable of heals like templar with also tankniess of dk

so as for me I dont see good point comparing cliff racer long range spammable to templar jabs on melee

Jesus Christ I can’t say a single thing without someone getting defensive.

I’m not saying stamplar is more OP than stamden. Stamden is clearly stronger . I was specifically comparing jabs and bird spam since both go through dodge roll.

If a stamden is spamming birds at range then they’re a bad stamden. Stamden is strongest in shalks / melee range.

Edziu

Thogard wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Bird spam is the easiest thing in the world to tap-block

I’m a Stam Warden these days. Don’t even slot birds because it only works against bad players

Edit: for clarity, warden is OP. But it’s the shim shield and the beetles that make it OP. Birds is just Templar jabs with AOE and burning light trades for range.

lol?
as you mentioned jabs are melee range, yes, but also you need to rotate your camera with char to hit your target because this isnt like any other normal skill to target enemy and spam skills, on templar with jabs you need to rotate your char to hit him

templar also itslef have probably the worst sustain in game of all classes

templar also have no mobility like warden have speedbuff for 10+ secs while any other class buffs are max for 4 sec..

warden can spam it on rage, templar only thing spammable on range is just beam execute which was nerfed many times and dont work form 100% health of your enemy

so templar is forced to fight in melee range with ofc hard to work gap closer like nb cloak

I dont want to mention also how templar get many nerf with healing, major mendind and then we got warden with not only better sustain but also capable of heals like templar with also tankniess of dk

so as for me I dont see good point comparing cliff racer long range spammable to templar jabs on melee

Jesus Christ I can’t say a single thing without someone getting defensive.

I’m not saying stamplar is more OP than stamden. Stamden is clearly stronger . I was specifically comparing jabs and bird spam since both go through dodge roll.

If a stamden is spamming birds at range then they’re a bad stamden. Stamden is strongest in shalks / melee range.

at all evn if you look just logically, jabs with just animation looks liks simple aoe which is just undodgable because its is, you attacks with like beams/spear in front of you whic is so big, thick while this cliff racer uhhh?? maybe its something like bird but dont say it you are handicapped with reactions to dodge something not fast like this whiel its no problem to dodge just snipes, crystal frags or even rag flare from templar which could be also undodgable because its magic ball of light which coult be with no problem autoragetting to be unable to dodge

Galalin

Rickter wrote: »

I'm sure there is a thread floating around that'ss similar, but with the recent MagDK changes in that Power Lash with be dodgeable, it's time we took a look at a similar, if not more effective dmg ability by our good friend, the Warden.

Please reference:

disclaimer: this screenshot was taken from the perspective of a medium armor wearer.

The lack of Warden mention in the PTS patch notes is becoming disheartening as I know the community has raised alarm and called foul on this.

What's the problem? its a ranged, undodgeable, 1 sec cooldown, 5k+ dmg, spammable.

Enough is enough, we deserve better.

Light armor PvE'er with no impen... stop trying to get things nerfed because ppl are bad. Lets nerf DB because it hits for 16k+. Don't believe me take a look. I did this today against the some lowbie obviously with no impen.

Edziu

Galalin wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

I'm sure there is a thread floating around that'ss similar, but with the recent MagDK changes in that Power Lash with be dodgeable, it's time we took a look at a similar, if not more effective dmg ability by our good friend, the Warden.

Please reference:

disclaimer: this screenshot was taken from the perspective of a medium armor wearer.

The lack of Warden mention in the PTS patch notes is becoming disheartening as I know the community has raised alarm and called foul on this.

What's the problem? its a ranged, undodgeable, 1 sec cooldown, 5k+ dmg, spammable.

Enough is enough, we deserve better.

Light armor PvE'er with no impen... stop trying to get things nerfed because ppl are bad. Lets nerf DB because it hits for 16k+. Don't believe me take a look. I did this today against the some lowbie obviously with no impen.

guy without shield up

it is like souls assault againt nonblocking medium armor, it will just in single cast melt that player

arkansas_ESO

SodanTok wrote: »

Its always the magicka cliff racer. Guess why.

Because stam has Wrecking Blow?

DKsUnite

Samadhi wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

kinda surprised there wasn't a 10k sub assault in there but i guess it was because the warden was spamming it from 41m away.

Is Subterranean Assault commonly paired with Screaming Cliff Racer?

Would expect the combination to be
Cutting Dive + Subterranean Assault
or
Screaming Cliff Racer + Deep Fissure

I don't play warden, I don't differentiate between the morphs, they are all just birds and sub assaults to me

PlagueSD

SodanTok wrote: »

Its always the magicka cliff racer. Guess why.

Because it does MORE damage the farther your target is from you. Yet ANOTHER reason to close the gap as soon as possible...

JobooAGS

ManDraKE wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

make racer instant too, otherwise its a weaker version of snipe.

because snipe is instant ? lol

cliff racer is delayed, and therefore telegraphed

snipe have a cast time plus a travel time that makes the hit very delayed.......

you are proving my point