The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Cliff Racer Needs Adjustment
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TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Let´s talk about the reality:
- how long does it take to get killquests done?:
- 20 sorceres: 10 Minutes
- 20 enemy players: 5 minutes
- 20 nightblades: 12 minutes
- 20 templars: 15 minutes
- 20 dragonknights: 17 minutes
- 20 wardens: 75 minutes!!!
average of last 3 months, VIVEC-EU-PC)
and now tell me what is your problem?
ah, you just ran into the one and only grp of 2 wardens lvling their alts in cyro!, LoL
The kill warden quest was bugged where you actually had to get the killing blow for the kill to count unlike the other kill quests where you just had to participate in the kill for it to count. So your past data is skewed.Edited by TequilaFire on January 26, 2018 1:18PM0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »Let´s talk about the reality:
- how long does it take to get killquests done?:
- 20 sorceres: 10 Minutes
- 20 enemy players: 5 minutes
- 20 nightblades: 12 minutes
- 20 templars: 15 minutes
- 20 dragonknights: 17 minutes
- 20 wardens: 75 minutes!!!
average of last 3 months, VIVEC-EU-PC)
and now tell me what is your problem?
ah, you just ran into the one and only grp of 2 wardens lvling their alts in cyro!, LoL
The kill warden quest was bugged where you actually had to get the killing blow for the kill to count unlike the other kill quests where you just had to participate in the kill for it to count. So your past data is skewed.
This, and the fact not everyone was willing to buy Morrowind.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭
You want to put any thought analysis into what exactly would change over all before putting pen to paper? Compared to stamina DK monster DPS, magpks monster CC, magSorcs amazingly balance damage output and defense against all builds, stamsorc heavy DoTs which heals then for continuing the offensive, magblades redonculous burst potential. Stam blades burst potential, that leaves magplar who has huge heals for defense, stamplar which much better DPS all against Stam den Good burst with great defense against ranged mag, and Magden kind of good burst and kind of good heals with an amazing healing ultimate (if its up when you need it, as often as you need it)Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30
https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
Look at the bolded parts. Wardens are not at the bottom from a PvP perspective. Being dodgeable wont hurt PvE and therefore would not be a nerf to DPS there. For the sake of this topic, stop hiding behind PVE excuses when we're talking PvP. "You can't nerf my bad PvE warden no matter that the PvP performance is something completely different".
Dive doesn not benefit from being undodgeable there. Go scrap at some other skills for a buff to make wardens PvE ready. I surely would support you in that case then.
Travel time, sure. But it doesn't have a cast time, so what? Are my hardcasted frags undodgeable? No. Why? Because it is stupid AF to have a single target spam, especially with the amount of damage of dive, to be undodgeable. Frags are dodgeable, Power Lash is dodgeable, Death Stroke (an ultimate!) is dodgeable.
If the travel time is the problem, then make it faster + dodgeable.
Don't like it? Other options:
give it a cast time so we can interrupt (once...)
lower impact dmg and add the rest as a dot (hello pve)
stop encouraging dive spamming from the back of the zerg by giving additional damage for long range. Reverse it, more damage the closer you are, for the sake of balance.
It's lot of fun to have someone benefiting from hiding behind a zerg, especially with shimmering shield and Bird of Prey up.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »
No, because no stam warden with birds ever hits that hard.
Something like that. Imo the more damage from distance is absolutely not needed there at all. For undodgeable ability, basic birds are doing fine damage.
rewarding people for being cowards shouldn't be a thing.
If anything it should do more damage on closer ranges.
in my opinion reflect abilties should at least deflect the birds.
Popping wings on a sDk , just to get hit for 5-7k birds isn't fair.
I would agree on the first part. There is no need for it to give bonus damage for people already being in advantage of range (and for example in pursuit). It does not need to reward people being in melee, what it needs (and so does stamina bird) is more pve oriented advantage from the morph. Because it is already fine ability damage wise and utility wise (undodgeable).
As for reflect, I dont like reflect mechanics at all, so dunno. I always felt it is stupid your defense could match or even be better than offense of enemy that relies only on ranged projectile attacks. Better would be to give DKs absorb morph.
I don't want the reflect for offensive value, I mainly want protection against ranged spell spam as a sDk, and wings are veery expensive so,
I would really like to trade it with shimmering shields.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
@Ragnarock41 I don't even use it. I main a Warden tank, if I'm going to slot damage it will be the Shalks. And with my mag Warden I've had much better luck with Deep Fissure as my "spamable" I just happen to have a good memory to know ;
- Dodgable has already been tried and failed.
- That mag Warden is last place DPS followed by stam.
- That anyone who dies to 5 Cliff Racers in a row not only is not skilled, but the got killed by someone who has barely graduated from zerg surfing snip spam.
so what does being last dps has to do with PvP again?
I thought we said pve isn't an excuse for broken undodgeable 1 button spam gameplay.
If you don't even use it, why care about it?
just a week ago I was playing in no-cp , with medium f.brass(almost 30k spell resist fyi) + full impen, fighting against yet another EP magDK , then suddenly I'm getting hit by 7k+ cliff racers... what am I supposed to do? hold block and wait for my unevitable death?
On a medium armor build? with 2h/bow?
Again, already covered by the devs at 35 min 30 sec. It started out dodgable, it was stupidly easy to dodge. PvP or PvE they are still last place. PvP they are just an exceptable last place. There is a reason no one ever takes the Warden bounty. Just like with a NB either they have enough burst to kill you and its over quick or they don't have the burst in which case its laughable how many times they can line it up and fail.
Edit: And a Wardens burst potential is no where close to as good as a NB
Exceptable last place in PvP.. Aha..
And again:
"If the travel time is the problem, then make it faster + dodgeable. what some sort of hyper speed bird? That doesn't fit any kind of Lore
Don't like it? Other options:
give it a cast time so we can interrupt (once...) and now everything the Warden has is on a timer, no instant skills at all
lower impact dmg and add the rest as a dot (hello pve) The only idea here thats maybe usable, however with no (or a nearly useless) exicute and extremely low damage output, can this version acutually kill anyone at all?
stop encouraging dive spamming from the back of the zerg by giving additional damage for long range. Reverse it, more damage the closer you are, for the sake of balance." Because unlike mag blade with cloak for an escape, mag DK with a ton of CC potential, magplar with a cheap 15k heal (HtD) or magsorc shield stacking to Oblivion, Wardens don't have particularly good defense, especially against stamina.
You want to reply to that part too?
Edited by Maura_Neysa on January 26, 2018 3:01PMMaiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.1 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
Look at the bolded parts. Wardens are not at the bottom from a PvP perspective. Being dodgeable wont hurt PvE and therefore would not be a nerf to DPS there. For the sake of this topic, stop hiding behind PVE excuses when we're talking PvP. "You can't nerf my bad PvE warden no matter that the PvP performance is something completely different".
Dive doesn not benefit from being undodgeable there. Go scrap at some other skills for a buff to make wardens PvE ready. I surely would support you in that case then.
Travel time, sure. But it doesn't have a cast time, so what? Are my hardcasted frags undodgeable? No. Why? Because it is stupid AF to have a single target spam, especially with the amount of damage of dive, to be undodgeable. Frags are dodgeable, Power Lash is dodgeable, Death Stroke (an ultimate!) is dodgeable.
If the travel time is the problem, then make it faster + dodgeable.
Don't like it? Other options:
give it a cast time so we can interrupt (once...)
lower impact dmg and add the rest as a dot (hello pve)
stop encouraging dive spamming from the back of the zerg by giving additional damage for long range. Reverse it, more damage the closer you are, for the sake of balance.
It's lot of fun to have someone benefiting from hiding behind a zerg, especially with shimmering shield and Bird of Prey up.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »
No, because no stam warden with birds ever hits that hard.
Something like that. Imo the more damage from distance is absolutely not needed there at all. For undodgeable ability, basic birds are doing fine damage.
rewarding people for being cowards shouldn't be a thing.
If anything it should do more damage on closer ranges.
in my opinion reflect abilties should at least deflect the birds.
Popping wings on a sDk , just to get hit for 5-7k birds isn't fair.
I would agree on the first part. There is no need for it to give bonus damage for people already being in advantage of range (and for example in pursuit). It does not need to reward people being in melee, what it needs (and so does stamina bird) is more pve oriented advantage from the morph. Because it is already fine ability damage wise and utility wise (undodgeable).
As for reflect, I dont like reflect mechanics at all, so dunno. I always felt it is stupid your defense could match or even be better than offense of enemy that relies only on ranged projectile attacks. Better would be to give DKs absorb morph.
I don't want the reflect for offensive value, I mainly want protection against ranged spell spam as a sDk, and wings are veery expensive so,
I would really like to trade it with shimmering shields.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
@Ragnarock41 I don't even use it. I main a Warden tank, if I'm going to slot damage it will be the Shalks. And with my mag Warden I've had much better luck with Deep Fissure as my "spamable" I just happen to have a good memory to know ;
- Dodgable has already been tried and failed.
- That mag Warden is last place DPS followed by stam.
- That anyone who dies to 5 Cliff Racers in a row not only is not skilled, but the got killed by someone who has barely graduated from zerg surfing snip spam.
so what does being last dps has to do with PvP again?
I thought we said pve isn't an excuse for broken undodgeable 1 button spam gameplay.
If you don't even use it, why care about it?
just a week ago I was playing in no-cp , with medium f.brass(almost 30k spell resist fyi) + full impen, fighting against yet another EP magDK , then suddenly I'm getting hit by 7k+ cliff racers... what am I supposed to do? hold block and wait for my unevitable death?
On a medium armor build? with 2h/bow?
Again, already covered by the devs at 35 min 30 sec. It started out dodgable, it was stupidly easy to dodge. PvP or PvE they are still last place. PvP they are just an exceptable last place. There is a reason no one ever takes the Warden bounty. Just like with a NB either they have enough burst to kill you and its over quick or they don't have the burst in which case its laughable how many times they can line it up and fail.
Edit: And a Wardens burst potential is no where close to as good as a NB
I think we are all aware of the opinion of the responsible devs. But a lot of things are "stupidly easy to dodge" and still being used, for the same reason any attacks are being used in PvP that you already know will be reacted to: to pressure your opponent. It's not because of the faster travel time people don't dodge every single projectile aimed at them.
And yet those stay in, so just how much worse does it have to be to get cut? A frigging helluva lot.
Edited by Maura_Neysa on January 26, 2018 3:05PMMaiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
Look at the bolded parts. Wardens are not at the bottom from a PvP perspective. Being dodgeable wont hurt PvE and therefore would not be a nerf to DPS there. For the sake of this topic, stop hiding behind PVE excuses when we're talking PvP. "You can't nerf my bad PvE warden no matter that the PvP performance is something completely different".
Dive doesn not benefit from being undodgeable there. Go scrap at some other skills for a buff to make wardens PvE ready. I surely would support you in that case then.
Travel time, sure. But it doesn't have a cast time, so what? Are my hardcasted frags undodgeable? No. Why? Because it is stupid AF to have a single target spam, especially with the amount of damage of dive, to be undodgeable. Frags are dodgeable, Power Lash is dodgeable, Death Stroke (an ultimate!) is dodgeable.
If the travel time is the problem, then make it faster + dodgeable.
Don't like it? Other options:
give it a cast time so we can interrupt (once...)
lower impact dmg and add the rest as a dot (hello pve)
stop encouraging dive spamming from the back of the zerg by giving additional damage for long range. Reverse it, more damage the closer you are, for the sake of balance.
It's lot of fun to have someone benefiting from hiding behind a zerg, especially with shimmering shield and Bird of Prey up.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »
No, because no stam warden with birds ever hits that hard.
Something like that. Imo the more damage from distance is absolutely not needed there at all. For undodgeable ability, basic birds are doing fine damage.
rewarding people for being cowards shouldn't be a thing.
If anything it should do more damage on closer ranges.
in my opinion reflect abilties should at least deflect the birds.
Popping wings on a sDk , just to get hit for 5-7k birds isn't fair.
I would agree on the first part. There is no need for it to give bonus damage for people already being in advantage of range (and for example in pursuit). It does not need to reward people being in melee, what it needs (and so does stamina bird) is more pve oriented advantage from the morph. Because it is already fine ability damage wise and utility wise (undodgeable).
As for reflect, I dont like reflect mechanics at all, so dunno. I always felt it is stupid your defense could match or even be better than offense of enemy that relies only on ranged projectile attacks. Better would be to give DKs absorb morph.
I don't want the reflect for offensive value, I mainly want protection against ranged spell spam as a sDk, and wings are veery expensive so,
I would really like to trade it with shimmering shields.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
@Ragnarock41 I don't even use it. I main a Warden tank, if I'm going to slot damage it will be the Shalks. And with my mag Warden I've had much better luck with Deep Fissure as my "spamable" I just happen to have a good memory to know ;
- Dodgable has already been tried and failed.
- That mag Warden is last place DPS followed by stam.
- That anyone who dies to 5 Cliff Racers in a row not only is not skilled, but the got killed by someone who has barely graduated from zerg surfing snip spam.
so what does being last dps has to do with PvP again?
I thought we said pve isn't an excuse for broken undodgeable 1 button spam gameplay.
If you don't even use it, why care about it?
just a week ago I was playing in no-cp , with medium f.brass(almost 30k spell resist fyi) + full impen, fighting against yet another EP magDK , then suddenly I'm getting hit by 7k+ cliff racers... what am I supposed to do? hold block and wait for my unevitable death?
On a medium armor build? with 2h/bow?
Again, already covered by the devs at 35 min 30 sec. It started out dodgable, it was stupidly easy to dodge. PvP or PvE they are still last place. PvP they are just an exceptable last place. There is a reason no one ever takes the Warden bounty. Just like with a NB either they have enough burst to kill you and its over quick or they don't have the burst in which case its laughable how many times they can line it up and fail.
Edit: And a Wardens burst potential is no where close to as good as a NB
I think we are all aware of the opinion of the responsible devs. But a lot of things are "stupidly easy to dodge" and still being used, for the same reason any attacks are being used in PvP that you already know will be reacted to: to pressure your opponent. It's not because of the faster travel time people don't dodge every single projectile aimed at them.
And yet those stay in, so just how much worse does it have to be to get cut? A frigging helluva lot.
snipe for example, is stupidly easy to dodge and is used as there are little to no alternatives0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
Look at the bolded parts. Wardens are not at the bottom from a PvP perspective. Being dodgeable wont hurt PvE and therefore would not be a nerf to DPS there. For the sake of this topic, stop hiding behind PVE excuses when we're talking PvP. "You can't nerf my bad PvE warden no matter that the PvP performance is something completely different".
Dive doesn not benefit from being undodgeable there. Go scrap at some other skills for a buff to make wardens PvE ready. I surely would support you in that case then.
Travel time, sure. But it doesn't have a cast time, so what? Are my hardcasted frags undodgeable? No. Why? Because it is stupid AF to have a single target spam, especially with the amount of damage of dive, to be undodgeable. Frags are dodgeable, Power Lash is dodgeable, Death Stroke (an ultimate!) is dodgeable.
If the travel time is the problem, then make it faster + dodgeable.
Don't like it? Other options:
give it a cast time so we can interrupt (once...)
lower impact dmg and add the rest as a dot (hello pve)
stop encouraging dive spamming from the back of the zerg by giving additional damage for long range. Reverse it, more damage the closer you are, for the sake of balance.
It's lot of fun to have someone benefiting from hiding behind a zerg, especially with shimmering shield and Bird of Prey up.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »
No, because no stam warden with birds ever hits that hard.
Something like that. Imo the more damage from distance is absolutely not needed there at all. For undodgeable ability, basic birds are doing fine damage.
rewarding people for being cowards shouldn't be a thing.
If anything it should do more damage on closer ranges.
in my opinion reflect abilties should at least deflect the birds.
Popping wings on a sDk , just to get hit for 5-7k birds isn't fair.
I would agree on the first part. There is no need for it to give bonus damage for people already being in advantage of range (and for example in pursuit). It does not need to reward people being in melee, what it needs (and so does stamina bird) is more pve oriented advantage from the morph. Because it is already fine ability damage wise and utility wise (undodgeable).
As for reflect, I dont like reflect mechanics at all, so dunno. I always felt it is stupid your defense could match or even be better than offense of enemy that relies only on ranged projectile attacks. Better would be to give DKs absorb morph.
I don't want the reflect for offensive value, I mainly want protection against ranged spell spam as a sDk, and wings are veery expensive so,
I would really like to trade it with shimmering shields.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
@Ragnarock41 I don't even use it. I main a Warden tank, if I'm going to slot damage it will be the Shalks. And with my mag Warden I've had much better luck with Deep Fissure as my "spamable" I just happen to have a good memory to know ;
- Dodgable has already been tried and failed.
- That mag Warden is last place DPS followed by stam.
- That anyone who dies to 5 Cliff Racers in a row not only is not skilled, but the got killed by someone who has barely graduated from zerg surfing snip spam.
so what does being last dps has to do with PvP again?
I thought we said pve isn't an excuse for broken undodgeable 1 button spam gameplay.
If you don't even use it, why care about it?
just a week ago I was playing in no-cp , with medium f.brass(almost 30k spell resist fyi) + full impen, fighting against yet another EP magDK , then suddenly I'm getting hit by 7k+ cliff racers... what am I supposed to do? hold block and wait for my unevitable death?
On a medium armor build? with 2h/bow?
Again, already covered by the devs at 35 min 30 sec. It started out dodgable, it was stupidly easy to dodge. PvP or PvE they are still last place. PvP they are just an exceptable last place. There is a reason no one ever takes the Warden bounty. Just like with a NB either they have enough burst to kill you and its over quick or they don't have the burst in which case its laughable how many times they can line it up and fail.
Edit: And a Wardens burst potential is no where close to as good as a NB
I think we are all aware of the opinion of the responsible devs. But a lot of things are "stupidly easy to dodge" and still being used, for the same reason any attacks are being used in PvP that you already know will be reacted to: to pressure your opponent. It's not because of the faster travel time people don't dodge every single projectile aimed at them.
And yet those stay in, so just how much worse does it have to be to get cut? A frigging helluva lot.
snipe for example, is stupidly easy to dodge and is used as there are little to no alternatives
Only if you see the cast. The actual projectial is a nearly unnoticeable arrow with grey wisps trailing it, not a blue green bird with a 2 meter wing span. Even if you didn't see that enemy, you're going to notice that dive bomb the second the animation starts. Which gives you a full second to find your dodge roll button / key. Ther> easy loto dodge and there's stupidly easy to dodge. Snip isn't stupidly easy.Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
Look at the bolded parts. Wardens are not at the bottom from a PvP perspective. Being dodgeable wont hurt PvE and therefore would not be a nerf to DPS there. For the sake of this topic, stop hiding behind PVE excuses when we're talking PvP. "You can't nerf my bad PvE warden no matter that the PvP performance is something completely different".
Dive doesn not benefit from being undodgeable there. Go scrap at some other skills for a buff to make wardens PvE ready. I surely would support you in that case then.
Travel time, sure. But it doesn't have a cast time, so what? Are my hardcasted frags undodgeable? No. Why? Because it is stupid AF to have a single target spam, especially with the amount of damage of dive, to be undodgeable. Frags are dodgeable, Power Lash is dodgeable, Death Stroke (an ultimate!) is dodgeable.
If the travel time is the problem, then make it faster + dodgeable.
Don't like it? Other options:
give it a cast time so we can interrupt (once...)
lower impact dmg and add the rest as a dot (hello pve)
stop encouraging dive spamming from the back of the zerg by giving additional damage for long range. Reverse it, more damage the closer you are, for the sake of balance.
It's lot of fun to have someone benefiting from hiding behind a zerg, especially with shimmering shield and Bird of Prey up.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »
No, because no stam warden with birds ever hits that hard.
Something like that. Imo the more damage from distance is absolutely not needed there at all. For undodgeable ability, basic birds are doing fine damage.
rewarding people for being cowards shouldn't be a thing.
If anything it should do more damage on closer ranges.
in my opinion reflect abilties should at least deflect the birds.
Popping wings on a sDk , just to get hit for 5-7k birds isn't fair.
I would agree on the first part. There is no need for it to give bonus damage for people already being in advantage of range (and for example in pursuit). It does not need to reward people being in melee, what it needs (and so does stamina bird) is more pve oriented advantage from the morph. Because it is already fine ability damage wise and utility wise (undodgeable).
As for reflect, I dont like reflect mechanics at all, so dunno. I always felt it is stupid your defense could match or even be better than offense of enemy that relies only on ranged projectile attacks. Better would be to give DKs absorb morph.
I don't want the reflect for offensive value, I mainly want protection against ranged spell spam as a sDk, and wings are veery expensive so,
I would really like to trade it with shimmering shields.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
@Ragnarock41 I don't even use it. I main a Warden tank, if I'm going to slot damage it will be the Shalks. And with my mag Warden I've had much better luck with Deep Fissure as my "spamable" I just happen to have a good memory to know ;
- Dodgable has already been tried and failed.
- That mag Warden is last place DPS followed by stam.
- That anyone who dies to 5 Cliff Racers in a row not only is not skilled, but the got killed by someone who has barely graduated from zerg surfing snip spam.
so what does being last dps has to do with PvP again?
I thought we said pve isn't an excuse for broken undodgeable 1 button spam gameplay.
If you don't even use it, why care about it?
just a week ago I was playing in no-cp , with medium f.brass(almost 30k spell resist fyi) + full impen, fighting against yet another EP magDK , then suddenly I'm getting hit by 7k+ cliff racers... what am I supposed to do? hold block and wait for my unevitable death?
On a medium armor build? with 2h/bow?
Again, already covered by the devs at 35 min 30 sec. It started out dodgable, it was stupidly easy to dodge. PvP or PvE they are still last place. PvP they are just an exceptable last place. There is a reason no one ever takes the Warden bounty. Just like with a NB either they have enough burst to kill you and its over quick or they don't have the burst in which case its laughable how many times they can line it up and fail.
Edit: And a Wardens burst potential is no where close to as good as a NB
I think we are all aware of the opinion of the responsible devs. But a lot of things are "stupidly easy to dodge" and still being used, for the same reason any attacks are being used in PvP that you already know will be reacted to: to pressure your opponent. It's not because of the faster travel time people don't dodge every single projectile aimed at them.
And yet those stay in, so just how much worse does it have to be to get cut? A frigging helluva lot.
snipe for example, is stupidly easy to dodge and is used as there are little to no alternatives
Only if you see the cast. The actual projectial is a nearly unnoticeable arrow with grey wisps trailing it, not a blue green bird with a 2 meter wing span. Even if you didn't see that enemy, you're going to notice that dive bomb the second the animation starts. Which gives you a full second to find your dodge roll button / key. Ther> easy loto dodge and there's stupidly easy to dodge. Snip isn't stupidly easy.
Snipe has 2 obvious audio queues, one for the cast the other for the travel time that screams "dodge roll" and the projectile is more visible than you think3 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
Look at the bolded parts. Wardens are not at the bottom from a PvP perspective. Being dodgeable wont hurt PvE and therefore would not be a nerf to DPS there. For the sake of this topic, stop hiding behind PVE excuses when we're talking PvP. "You can't nerf my bad PvE warden no matter that the PvP performance is something completely different".
Dive doesn not benefit from being undodgeable there. Go scrap at some other skills for a buff to make wardens PvE ready. I surely would support you in that case then.
Travel time, sure. But it doesn't have a cast time, so what? Are my hardcasted frags undodgeable? No. Why? Because it is stupid AF to have a single target spam, especially with the amount of damage of dive, to be undodgeable. Frags are dodgeable, Power Lash is dodgeable, Death Stroke (an ultimate!) is dodgeable.
If the travel time is the problem, then make it faster + dodgeable.
Don't like it? Other options:
give it a cast time so we can interrupt (once...)
lower impact dmg and add the rest as a dot (hello pve)
stop encouraging dive spamming from the back of the zerg by giving additional damage for long range. Reverse it, more damage the closer you are, for the sake of balance.
It's lot of fun to have someone benefiting from hiding behind a zerg, especially with shimmering shield and Bird of Prey up.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »
No, because no stam warden with birds ever hits that hard.
Something like that. Imo the more damage from distance is absolutely not needed there at all. For undodgeable ability, basic birds are doing fine damage.
rewarding people for being cowards shouldn't be a thing.
If anything it should do more damage on closer ranges.
in my opinion reflect abilties should at least deflect the birds.
Popping wings on a sDk , just to get hit for 5-7k birds isn't fair.
I would agree on the first part. There is no need for it to give bonus damage for people already being in advantage of range (and for example in pursuit). It does not need to reward people being in melee, what it needs (and so does stamina bird) is more pve oriented advantage from the morph. Because it is already fine ability damage wise and utility wise (undodgeable).
As for reflect, I dont like reflect mechanics at all, so dunno. I always felt it is stupid your defense could match or even be better than offense of enemy that relies only on ranged projectile attacks. Better would be to give DKs absorb morph.
I don't want the reflect for offensive value, I mainly want protection against ranged spell spam as a sDk, and wings are veery expensive so,
I would really like to trade it with shimmering shields.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
@Ragnarock41 I don't even use it. I main a Warden tank, if I'm going to slot damage it will be the Shalks. And with my mag Warden I've had much better luck with Deep Fissure as my "spamable" I just happen to have a good memory to know ;
- Dodgable has already been tried and failed.
- That mag Warden is last place DPS followed by stam.
- That anyone who dies to 5 Cliff Racers in a row not only is not skilled, but the got killed by someone who has barely graduated from zerg surfing snip spam.
so what does being last dps has to do with PvP again?
I thought we said pve isn't an excuse for broken undodgeable 1 button spam gameplay.
If you don't even use it, why care about it?
just a week ago I was playing in no-cp , with medium f.brass(almost 30k spell resist fyi) + full impen, fighting against yet another EP magDK , then suddenly I'm getting hit by 7k+ cliff racers... what am I supposed to do? hold block and wait for my unevitable death?
On a medium armor build? with 2h/bow?
Again, already covered by the devs at 35 min 30 sec. It started out dodgable, it was stupidly easy to dodge. PvP or PvE they are still last place. PvP they are just an exceptable last place. There is a reason no one ever takes the Warden bounty. Just like with a NB either they have enough burst to kill you and its over quick or they don't have the burst in which case its laughable how many times they can line it up and fail.
Edit: And a Wardens burst potential is no where close to as good as a NB
I think we are all aware of the opinion of the responsible devs. But a lot of things are "stupidly easy to dodge" and still being used, for the same reason any attacks are being used in PvP that you already know will be reacted to: to pressure your opponent. It's not because of the faster travel time people don't dodge every single projectile aimed at them.
And yet those stay in, so just how much worse does it have to be to get cut? A frigging helluva lot.
snipe for example, is stupidly easy to dodge and is used as there are little to no alternatives
Only if you see the cast. The actual projectial is a nearly unnoticeable arrow with grey wisps trailing it, not a blue green bird with a 2 meter wing span. Even if you didn't see that enemy, you're going to notice that dive bomb the second the animation starts. Which gives you a full second to find your dodge roll button / key. Ther> easy loto dodge and there's stupidly easy to dodge. Snip isn't stupidly easy.
Snipe has 2 obvious audio queues, one for the cast the other for the travel time that screams "dodge roll" and the projectile is more visible than you think
so much this ^
I dont ever need to see anything when Im back to snipa, I just hear it yelling on me: DODGE NOW!
maybe lethal arrow is quiter but still you can normally hear it is flying now at you while you dont need to see it to know it: DODGE NOW!0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Question: Why are almost all fo the Warden animal powers modeled after Morrowind? Why does it have to be a cliff racer? Why can't it be a falcon, eagle, etc. Why don't the powers show animals from all across tamriel?
You must have missed the whole wardens being added as part of vvardenfell.0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It’s simple, there’s a reason wardens are the fotm now, the same reason mag sorcs used to be: because they’re the class that’s easiest to dish out and mitigate damage with the least effort. Currently all one has to do as a warden in a group is spam sub assault and birds and pop healing thicket. Toss in a db now and then and you’re good. Even an unskilled group of 2-3 wardens can give people a really hard time. Sub assault is insanely strong providing a stun, major fracture and breach along with being one of the hardest hitting skills in the game. Adding major fracture and breach to dizzying swing and making it an aoe, that’s about the equivalent. Everyone and anyone would call that OP.Edited by Vapirko on January 26, 2018 4:20PM1 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭It’s simple, there’s a reason wardens are the fotm now, the same reason mag sorcs used to be: because they’re the class that’s easiest to dish out and mitigate damage with the least effort. Currently all one has to do as a warden in a group is spam sub assault and birds and pop healing thicket. Toss in a db now and then and you’re good. Even an unskilled group of 2-3 wardens can give people a really hard time. Sub assault is insanely strong providing a stun, major fracture and breach along with being one of the hardest hitting skills in the game. Adding major fracture and breach to dizzying swing and making it an aoe, that’s about the equivalent. Everyone and anyone would call that OP.
sub assault doesnt stun, deep fissure does2 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Can we PLEASE stop quoting entire posts? I constantly get notifications because I am in the quoted quote.
Nerf quotes please٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."1 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Knootewoot wrote: »Can we PLEASE stop quoting entire posts? I constantly get notifications because I am in the quoted quote.
Nerf quotes please
Responding to people is the main purpose of the forums. Change your notification settings, problem solved.
2 -
Soleya✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Going by the 3 hits from Vanilla Ice. Not wearing Impen so you got hit by a 7k crit. And the last attack did more damage than the first, which means running away.
The simple way to beat a mag warden is rush them and block the cliff racers. Most cliff racer spammers are inexperienced light armor wearing mag wardens who are easily destroyed if you put pressure on them.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Going by the 3 hits from Vanilla Ice. Not wearing Impen so you got hit by a 7k crit. And the last attack did more damage than the first, which means running away.
The simple way to beat a mag warden is rush them and block the cliff racers. Most cliff racer spammers are inexperienced light armor wearing mag wardens who are easily destroyed if you put pressure on them.
You think cliff racer only hits 7k to a no impen target?
HAHAHA6 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It’s simple, there’s a reason wardens are the fotm now, the same reason mag sorcs used to be: because they’re the class that’s easiest to dish out and mitigate damage with the least effort. Currently all one has to do as a warden in a group is spam sub assault and birds and pop healing thicket. Toss in a db now and then and you’re good. Even an unskilled group of 2-3 wardens can give people a really hard time. Sub assault is insanely strong providing a stun, major fracture and breach along with being one of the hardest hitting skills in the game. Adding major fracture and breach to dizzying swing and making it an aoe, that’s about the equivalent. Everyone and anyone would call that OP.
sub assault doesnt stun, deep fissure does
I stand corrected. I suggest then that since wrecking blow morph is kinda of crap, that it be turned into aoe damage and provide major fracture and major breach. Which would be far more useful than empower.Edited by Vapirko on January 27, 2018 2:46AM0 -
Abysswarrior45✭✭✭✭People in Dark Souls 1 complained about tower shields and tanks that would permablock and r1 spam with a rapier. In Dark Souls 2 they added a guard break mechanic in place of a kick. This allowed you to punish permablockers who couldn't strategically block by bypassing their shield and getting a critical hit in. ESO needs similar treatment, imo. Just add counterplay to a lot of the abilities players are complaining about. Don't nerf the skills damage numbers, just make it less effective on players who can put a game mechanic into practice faster and more precise than the average player.
People arguing "just hold block" for skills like soul assault, bird spam, and procs like skoria, etc. need to realize thats the reason for all the tanks nowadays and its not a reliable counter for medium users in an outnumbered scenario or even in certain 1v1 scenarios. There needs to be more than just 1 way to approach certain setups that hvy armor, light armor, and medium armor play styles can use reliably.Edited by Abysswarrior45 on January 27, 2018 5:55AM2 -
Soleya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Going by the 3 hits from Vanilla Ice. Not wearing Impen so you got hit by a 7k crit. And the last attack did more damage than the first, which means running away.
The simple way to beat a mag warden is rush them and block the cliff racers. Most cliff racer spammers are inexperienced light armor wearing mag wardens who are easily destroyed if you put pressure on them.
You think cliff racer only hits 7k to a no impen target?
HAHAHA
It hit for 3k from the same player, running away made it do more damage, like I said.0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭.Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Going by the 3 hits from Vanilla Ice. Not wearing Impen so you got hit by a 7k crit. And the last attack did more damage than the first, which means running away.
The simple way to beat a mag warden is rush them and block the cliff racers. Most cliff racer spammers are inexperienced light armor wearing mag wardens who are easily destroyed if you put pressure on them.
You think cliff racer only hits 7k to a no impen target?
HAHAHA
It hit for 3k from the same player, running away made it do more damage, like I said.
Or the first one was blocked. Maybe there were mitigation buffs at play, too. Or a damage shield. Or Empower. So many possibilities...DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
jhharvest✭✭✭I think there's literally no reason why the skill isn't dodgeable. Give it like Minor Breach and make it dodgeable. Makes it more useful for PVE, makes it more fair for PVP.2
-
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭I think there's literally no reason why the skill isn't dodgeable. Give it like Minor Breach and make it dodgeable. Makes it more useful for PVE, makes it more fair for PVP.
35 minutes 30 secondshttps://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.1 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭
Going by the 3 hits from Vanilla Ice. Not wearing Impen so you got hit by a 7k crit. And the last attack did more damage than the first, which means running away.
The simple way to beat a mag warden is rush them and block the cliff racers. Most cliff racer spammers are inexperienced light armor wearing mag wardens who are easily destroyed if you put pressure on them.
LOL... you think that guy was hit while not wearing impen? By Vanilla Ice, who uses nightblades and other allies for buffs and debuffs on the target first? If the hit was only 7k then he was definitely wearing full impen, and the hits went higher because of damage buffs from himself or allies.
Here's my own Vanilla Ice shot and I was wearing 7th... it was epic heavy armor with full impen, stamina enchants, not a tank build just aiming for less chance at an instakill. With the level of penetration being thrown you're almost naked. Try actually getting hit by Vanilla Ice sometime, your level of durability doesn't matter when Major Breached and he's probably buffed with force and brute.
Edited by LordSemaj on January 27, 2018 1:07PM2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
Look at the bolded parts. Wardens are not at the bottom from a PvP perspective. Being dodgeable wont hurt PvE and therefore would not be a nerf to DPS there. For the sake of this topic, stop hiding behind PVE excuses when we're talking PvP. "You can't nerf my bad PvE warden no matter that the PvP performance is something completely different".
Dive doesn not benefit from being undodgeable there. Go scrap at some other skills for a buff to make wardens PvE ready. I surely would support you in that case then.
Travel time, sure. But it doesn't have a cast time, so what? Are my hardcasted frags undodgeable? No. Why? Because it is stupid AF to have a single target spam, especially with the amount of damage of dive, to be undodgeable. Frags are dodgeable, Power Lash is dodgeable, Death Stroke (an ultimate!) is dodgeable.
If the travel time is the problem, then make it faster + dodgeable.
Don't like it? Other options:
give it a cast time so we can interrupt (once...)
lower impact dmg and add the rest as a dot (hello pve)
stop encouraging dive spamming from the back of the zerg by giving additional damage for long range. Reverse it, more damage the closer you are, for the sake of balance.
It's lot of fun to have someone benefiting from hiding behind a zerg, especially with shimmering shield and Bird of Prey up.Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »
No, because no stam warden with birds ever hits that hard.
Something like that. Imo the more damage from distance is absolutely not needed there at all. For undodgeable ability, basic birds are doing fine damage.
rewarding people for being cowards shouldn't be a thing.
If anything it should do more damage on closer ranges.
in my opinion reflect abilties should at least deflect the birds.
Popping wings on a sDk , just to get hit for 5-7k birds isn't fair.
I would agree on the first part. There is no need for it to give bonus damage for people already being in advantage of range (and for example in pursuit). It does not need to reward people being in melee, what it needs (and so does stamina bird) is more pve oriented advantage from the morph. Because it is already fine ability damage wise and utility wise (undodgeable).
As for reflect, I dont like reflect mechanics at all, so dunno. I always felt it is stupid your defense could match or even be better than offense of enemy that relies only on ranged projectile attacks. Better would be to give DKs absorb morph.
I don't want the reflect for offensive value, I mainly want protection against ranged spell spam as a sDk, and wings are veery expensive so,
I would really like to trade it with shimmering shields.Maura_Neysa wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »The Warden is the weakest PVE damage build, and the class only has 4 DPS skills. So as much as PVP wants nerf, PVE wants buff.
Honsetly you can't cry nerf until that thing is no longer the very worst dps class both flavors stamina and magicka
@Maura_Neysa Now please tell me exactly at which spot a PvE warden DD would suffer from dodgeable cliffracers. Dodgebility is a no issue in PvE.
@Chilly-McFreeze
@Knootewoot
I already covered that, making Cliff Racer dodge able wouldn't make PVE worse. In fact Cliff Racer started out dodgable... IT STARTED OUT DODGABLE ... Because it has a travel time much slower than frogs or snip and it comes at you from above the plain of the horizon (unlike any other skill) it was easy as * * * * to dodge. Meaning you're nerfing the crap out of the lowest DPS class in the game.
Minute 35:30https://youtu.be/tub8R8b2elc
So give it up already. You screaming for something already tested and thrown out.
@Ragnarock41 I don't even use it. I main a Warden tank, if I'm going to slot damage it will be the Shalks. And with my mag Warden I've had much better luck with Deep Fissure as my "spamable" I just happen to have a good memory to know ;
- Dodgable has already been tried and failed.
- That mag Warden is last place DPS followed by stam.
- That anyone who dies to 5 Cliff Racers in a row not only is not skilled, but the got killed by someone who has barely graduated from zerg surfing snip spam.
so what does being last dps has to do with PvP again?
I thought we said pve isn't an excuse for broken undodgeable 1 button spam gameplay.
If you don't even use it, why care about it?
just a week ago I was playing in no-cp , with medium f.brass(almost 30k spell resist fyi) + full impen, fighting against yet another EP magDK , then suddenly I'm getting hit by 7k+ cliff racers... what am I supposed to do? hold block and wait for my unevitable death?
On a medium armor build? with 2h/bow?
Again, already covered by the devs at 35 min 30 sec. It started out dodgable, it was stupidly easy to dodge. PvP or PvE they are still last place. PvP they are just an exceptable last place. There is a reason no one ever takes the Warden bounty. Just like with a NB either they have enough burst to kill you and its over quick or they don't have the burst in which case its laughable how many times they can line it up and fail.
Edit: And a Wardens burst potential is no where close to as good as a NB
I think we are all aware of the opinion of the responsible devs. But a lot of things are "stupidly easy to dodge" and still being used, for the same reason any attacks are being used in PvP that you already know will be reacted to: to pressure your opponent. It's not because of the faster travel time people don't dodge every single projectile aimed at them.
And yet those stay in, so just how much worse does it have to be to get cut? A frigging helluva lot.
snipe for example, is stupidly easy to dodge and is used as there are little to no alternatives
Only if you see the cast. The actual projectial is a nearly unnoticeable arrow with grey wisps trailing it, not a blue green bird with a 2 meter wing span. Even if you didn't see that enemy, you're going to notice that dive bomb the second the animation starts. Which gives you a full second to find your dodge roll button / key. Ther> easy loto dodge and there's stupidly easy to dodge. Snip isn't stupidly easy.
Snipe has 2 obvious audio queues, one for the cast the other for the travel time that screams "dodge roll" and the projectile is more visible than you think
Going by the 3 hits from Vanilla Ice. Not wearing Impen so you got hit by a 7k crit. And the last attack did more damage than the first, which means running away.
The simple way to beat a mag warden is rush them and block the cliff racers. Most cliff racer spammers are inexperienced light armor wearing mag wardens who are easily destroyed if you put pressure on them.
LOL... you think that guy was hit while not wearing impen? By Vanilla Ice, who uses nightblades and other allies for buffs and debuffs on the target first? If the hit was only 7k then he was definitely wearing full impen, and the hits went higher because of damage buffs from himself or allies.
Here's my own Vanilla Ice shot and I was wearing 7th... it was epic heavy armor with full impen, stamina enchants, not a tank build just aiming for less chance at an instakill. With the level of penetration being thrown you're almost naked. Try actually getting hit by Vanilla Ice sometime, your level of durability doesn't matter when Major Breached and he's probably buffed with force and brute.
Ice Ice Baby!
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umagon✭✭✭✭✭
Going by the 3 hits from Vanilla Ice. Not wearing Impen so you got hit by a 7k crit. And the last attack did more damage than the first, which means running away.
The simple way to beat a mag warden is rush them and block the cliff racers. Most cliff racer spammers are inexperienced light armor wearing mag wardens who are easily destroyed if you put pressure on them.
LOL... you think that guy was hit while not wearing impen? By Vanilla Ice, who uses nightblades and other allies for buffs and debuffs on the target first? If the hit was only 7k then he was definitely wearing full impen, and the hits went higher because of damage buffs from himself or allies.
Here's my own Vanilla Ice shot and I was wearing 7th... it was epic heavy armor with full impen, stamina enchants, not a tank build just aiming for less chance at an instakill. With the level of penetration being thrown you're almost naked. Try actually getting hit by Vanilla Ice sometime, your level of durability doesn't matter when Major Breached and he's probably buffed with force and brute.
My guess is 100 into elfborn, 100 into spell erosion, spinner’s, necro, and major breach. When that is paired with screaming cliff racer it creates a situation where there is very little counter to it other than to avoid the skill by los. Because if someone blocks it shreds their stamina and if they do not block the penetration bypasses most of defenses. If a person loses stamina then they cannot cc break, or break roots, etc.
Stamina builds are affected the most by the combo because they are forced to maintain a high defense and offence at the same time with only one resource. Because of the way the skill functions it easy to create a satiation where there are very limited counters to the skill. Line of sight, major protection, and shields are the only thing left. And if the player using it has someone with them using shield breaker, well then who ever is getting attacked is screwed.
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Devilhand✭✭✭
Going by the 3 hits from Vanilla Ice. Not wearing Impen so you got hit by a 7k crit. And the last attack did more damage than the first, which means running away.
The simple way to beat a mag warden is rush them and block the cliff racers. Most cliff racer spammers are inexperienced light armor wearing mag wardens who are easily destroyed if you put pressure on them.
Bro, I have 3k impen and 25k resistances. And got hit by 7k Cliff racer from 35m away.
The skill just needs a nerf of somekind.
Undodgeable, instant cast, 41m range, low cost... Its worse then sorc frag in every sense.4 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭This got brought up 9-10 months ago during the Morrowind PTS. I'm sorry, but they just don't care.
Just play a tank if you want to survive. Avoid medium armour builds relying on roll dodge, unless you can cloak (in other words, unless you're a stamblade).
Who would've thought a ranged undodgeable surprise attack would be broken? Oh well, at least the animation looks pretty, right?4 -
Stratforge✭✭✭✭noone should ever die to a spammed ability - Spamming is not effective in this game (at least if your opponent can handle himself...). A skilled warden doesn't spam birds either. It is weaved in a rotation. So first of all you didn't face a skilled opponent.
There remains basically one reason why you died there: You weren't paying attention - Not going defensive (going out of line of sight?, blocking?!, shielding?). The fact that the player hit you with almost always the same dmg value tells me that you didn't block a single of these cliff racers...
I mean seriously guys. Stop coming to forum to cry for nerfs if the solution is to use your brain... cliffracer is undodgable? some scrub is spamming it on you? easy: simply block it/ shield it and apply counter pressure with dots and timed burst.
It is an ability that is clearly visible and good to react to. But if people keep dodge rolling like maniacs even so they know the used ability is undodgeable... its a learn to play issue.
So please guys... Stop coming to forum crying for nerfs when even the photo proof shows nothing more than the OP's failure to react to the attacker AT ALL...
And no, I am not trolling or trying to be arrogant but all the "fast" complaints by people brought our pvp combat meta to the bad spot we are in today. Because ZOS simply applies nerfs according to outcry. Less asking for nerfs, more brain! If you don't know how to react to birds. Ask for help on forums. But don't cry for nerfs as first step...
This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read. Just felt I had to pop in to say that. On topic: the birds need a nerf.PC NA
Xbox One NA (retired)5 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Going by the 3 hits from Vanilla Ice. Not wearing Impen so you got hit by a 7k crit. And the last attack did more damage than the first, which means running away.
The simple way to beat a mag warden is rush them and block the cliff racers. Most cliff racer spammers are inexperienced light armor wearing mag wardens who are easily destroyed if you put pressure on them.
Bro, I have 3k impen and 25k resistances. And got hit by 7k Cliff racer from 35m away.
The skill just needs a nerf of somekind.
Undodgeable, instant cast, 41m range, low cost... Its worse then sorc frag in every sense.
Cliff racer needs a 10% dmg buff. You're lying about your resistances.0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Going by the 3 hits from Vanilla Ice. Not wearing Impen so you got hit by a 7k crit. And the last attack did more damage than the first, which means running away.
The simple way to beat a mag warden is rush them and block the cliff racers. Most cliff racer spammers are inexperienced light armor wearing mag wardens who are easily destroyed if you put pressure on them.
Bro, I have 3k impen and 25k resistances. And got hit by 7k Cliff racer from 35m away.
The skill just needs a nerf of somekind.
Undodgeable, instant cast, 41m range, low cost... Its worse then sorc frag in every sense.
Cliff racer needs a 10% dmg buff. You're lying about your resistances.
waiting to get back undodgable concealed weapon on nb with dmg buf ofc or cost reduction0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This got brought up 9-10 months ago during the Morrowind PTS. I'm sorry, but they just don't care.
Just play a tank if you want to survive. Avoid medium armour builds relying on roll dodge, unless you can cloak (in other words, unless you're a stamblade).
Who would've thought a ranged undodgeable surprise attack would be broken? Oh well, at least the animation looks pretty, right?
suprise attack? more like a ranged no-cast undodgeable dizzy swing
Average suprise attack hits me for 3k to 5k(in the most extreme case). magwardens do around 4-9k. I guess range scaling makes a difference.Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 28, 2018 2:22AM2