"Not that expensive"

Recremen

Honey you went through over half the template character's gold making like 5 outfits, this system is expensive as heck.

ak_pvp

I'm going to take a wild guess and say its because they made and dyed the outfits from scratch and repeatedly changed the dyes/styles. After its made, you can make adjustments without paying to a lump sum like skills. Its not meant to be changed so constantly, and if you want to then its money time.

Sixty5

If you use the most expensive style in every single slot, and dye every slot the final cost comes out at 25k gold

That is still a lot less than what it would cost to craft equivalent gear.

Plus you can make nice looking outfits for 2-3k if you know what you are doing.

Apache_Kid

Why should I have to pay gold to use motifs I already know. Why did I bother saving up all these style materials. And now I'm being charged to use colors I already unlocked just to dye the outfit?
Nah man the fact that there is a cost is lame as hell. I already own the motifs why am I paying gold to use them??

Waffennacht

25k is a *** ton

Recremen

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Why should I have to pay gold to use motifs I already know. Why did I bother saving up all these style materials. And now I'm being charged to use colors I already unlocked just to dye the outfit?
Nah man the fact that there is a cost is lame as hell. I already own the motifs why am I paying gold to use them??

"The gold cost is what is is" apparently. 9_9 This is terrible and really killing my hype for the system. Like hardcore. Why the hell give all the features we asked for, encourage massive investment in getting all these motifs and cool styles, and then be like "lololol per-use cost have fun".

czar

I blame the Crown Store. Without it, I'm sure outfits wouldn't cost a thing.

Recremen

Sixty5 wrote: »

If you use the most expensive style in every single slot, and dye every slot the final cost comes out at 25k gold

That is still a lot less than what it would cost to craft equivalent gear.

Plus you can make nice looking outfits for 2-3k if you know what you are doing.

"Crafting equivalent gear" isn't the right metric to use since if we were just crafting our gear we would only do it once per motif and be done with it. We weren't even doing much of that because the best gear for most builds involves tons of dropped items. That was the whole point of why we were asking for such a bold and feature-rich outfit system.

Yeah I could just do all Khajiit medium, never dye it, and call it a day. It would look good. That's not even close to the point. The point is that we wanted this system to give us absolute aesthetic freedom. They came SO CLOSE to getting it right but are decimating the system's use-value due to this per-use cost. The system is shooting its own purpose in the foot right now and it's sad to see so many hopes and aspiration just *** die on the PTS floor because someone thinks they can monetize "outfit change tokens". Give me a break.

Recremen

ak_pvp wrote: »

I'm going to take a wild guess and say its because they made and dyed the outfits from scratch and repeatedly changed the dyes/styles. After its made, you can make adjustments without paying to a lump sum like skills. Its not meant to be changed so constantly, and if you want to then its money time.

How could you look at this system or listen to the forums for the last 3 years when we were asking for this system, and conclude that the intent isn't to change your gear up constantly? What cosmetic system in the game has discouraged people from changing things up on a regular basis? Here's a hint : it's none of them. Costumes, dyes, hair styles, skins, etc. have all been up-front, one-and-done costs and we've loved it that way. This is a new bad direction that completely undermines what people wanted with the system.

BlazingDynamo

Did they really say "it is what it is"? Because if they did that deserves a back hand

Recremen

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Did they really say "it is what it is"? Because if they did that deserves a back hand

I mean unless that dude is actually in charge of pricing I think that's a bit much. Maybe he advocated against it and is just as frustrated as we are. I sure hope the devs are against this, because it completely undermines the functionality of their otherwise-exceptional system.

Sixty5

Recremen wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

If you use the most expensive style in every single slot, and dye every slot the final cost comes out at 25k gold

That is still a lot less than what it would cost to craft equivalent gear.

Plus you can make nice looking outfits for 2-3k if you know what you are doing.

"Crafting equivalent gear" isn't the right metric to use since if we were just crafting our gear we would only do it once per motif and be done with it. We weren't even doing much of that because the best gear for most builds involves tons of dropped items. That was the whole point of why we were asking for such a bold and feature-rich outfit system.

Yeah I could just do all Khajiit medium, never dye it, and call it a day. It would look good. That's not even close to the point. The point is that we wanted this system to give us absolute aesthetic freedom. They came SO CLOSE to getting it right but are decimating the system's use-value due to this per-use cost. The system is shooting its own purpose in the foot right now and it's sad to see so many hopes and aspiration just *** die on the PTS floor because someone thinks they can monetize "outfit change tokens". Give me a break.

When I was thinking up ways that transmute could be implemented, I ended up with the idea that you'd have to craft an item in the style you wanted, and then apply it to the item that you wanted to change, being a 1 time use, permanent type deal.

The outfit system we have far exceeded that expectation in terms of usability and cost.

I mean this was one of the very first outfits I made, and still remains one of my favourite combos


That was done with existing motif knowledge I had, and cost less than 5k gold.

You also need to consider the fact that the outfit system is going to compete with costumes, something that actually makes ZOS money. It's naive to think that a company is going to make something that competes with a revenue stream completely free to access.

I compare outfit costs to crafting gear because before the system, if you wanted to look like that, you would have to go out and craft that gear yourself.

Fashion is endgame. It's what you do when you have done everything else, given that it has zero impact on actual gameplay. If you can't afford the cost of an outfit, then there are probably other things you should be spending your gold on first.

Apache_Kid

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Did they really say "it is what it is"? Because if they did that deserves a back hand

That's damn near insulting.

Recremen

Here's a question : where in the course of the outfit system are we supposed to be making the money back that we invest in it? Other critical game functions give you an opportunity to make back the costs associated with the play, and then some, or some way to gain function-relevant items just by playing the content. PvP gets you PvP sets, AP for buying siege and gear, transmutation crystals, a little gold, etc. PvE gives you all the dungeon, trial, and overland sets, plus endless vendor trash. Where is this with the cosmetic systems?

Oh and let's not forget that in order to even use the new outfit system you need to be heavily invested in the aforementioned activities, or grind (or buy) a ton of gold. You've gotta do your PvP for Akaviri and Militant Ordinator, you've gotta do trials for your Celestial and Dro-m'Athra, you have to do overland, you have to do fighter's mages and undaunted dailies, you have to do all kinds of stuff in the DLC and expansion zones, etc. etc. Why is it that for the outfit system we just have to invest invest invest, and then pay even more every time we use it? Where's the money in that?

Recremen

Sixty5 wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

If you use the most expensive style in every single slot, and dye every slot the final cost comes out at 25k gold

That is still a lot less than what it would cost to craft equivalent gear.

Plus you can make nice looking outfits for 2-3k if you know what you are doing.

"Crafting equivalent gear" isn't the right metric to use since if we were just crafting our gear we would only do it once per motif and be done with it. We weren't even doing much of that because the best gear for most builds involves tons of dropped items. That was the whole point of why we were asking for such a bold and feature-rich outfit system.

Yeah I could just do all Khajiit medium, never dye it, and call it a day. It would look good. That's not even close to the point. The point is that we wanted this system to give us absolute aesthetic freedom. They came SO CLOSE to getting it right but are decimating the system's use-value due to this per-use cost. The system is shooting its own purpose in the foot right now and it's sad to see so many hopes and aspiration just *** die on the PTS floor because someone thinks they can monetize "outfit change tokens". Give me a break.

When I was thinking up ways that transmute could be implemented, I ended up with the idea that you'd have to craft an item in the style you wanted, and then apply it to the item that you wanted to change, being a 1 time use, permanent type deal.

The outfit system we have far exceeded that expectation in terms of usability and cost.

I mean this was one of the very first outfits I made, and still remains one of my favourite combos


That was done with existing motif knowledge I had, and cost less than 5k gold.

You also need to consider the fact that the outfit system is going to compete with costumes, something that actually makes ZOS money. It's naive to think that a company is going to make something that competes with a revenue stream completely free to access.

I compare outfit costs to crafting gear because before the system, if you wanted to look like that, you would have to go out and craft that gear yourself.

Fashion is endgame. It's what you do when you have done everything else, given that it has zero impact on actual gameplay. If you can't afford the cost of an outfit, then there are probably other things you should be spending your gold on first.

Wait, are you seriously trying to justify the cost because you imagined it would be worse in a system you made up in your own head? That's not... a super great line of argumentation. Like you can literally make any old contrived system you want. Look I just made one up where you pay a billion dollars just to change your helmet. That wouldn't be a great justification if it ended up costing five dollars instead.

And there is no reason to expect that outfits will compete with costumes. People were saying we'd never even have an outfit system because it would compete with costumes. As it turns out, however, costumes provide their own unique, irreplaceable aesthetics that are worthy of independent consideration. We're talking about cosmetics, we are already assuming people are going to be particular, and the idea that someone can go "oh, this heavy armor set is a good enough replacement where I won't spend money on That Cool New Costume" is more than a little dubious.

I compare outfit costs to crafting gear because before the system, if you wanted to look like that, you would have to go out and craft that gear yourself.

Yeah, and that's still a bad comparison. On average, people were not doing that. It's like saying that people were grinding for perfect trait gear before the transmutation system. Sure, a handful of edge cases definitely were, but on average people were just waiting it out until the devs addressed the problem.

I am also completely tired of this argument that "fashion has zero impact on actual gameplay." That's obviously and categorically false. If it weren't an essential part of gameplay then they wouldn't be driving their whole business model on cosmetics. For goodness sake you yourself are calling it "endgame". And don't lecture me about where I'm spending my gold. You are talking to an Emperor, a Grand Overlord, and a Veteran Trail Hardmode player. This game has been one of my primary diversions since launch. Maybe you should come to terms with the fact that even hardcore players are struggling to keep up when it comes to investing in motifs, let alone having the gold to get to change and dye their outfit as much as they should be able to.

Sixty5

Recremen wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

If you use the most expensive style in every single slot, and dye every slot the final cost comes out at 25k gold

That is still a lot less than what it would cost to craft equivalent gear.

Plus you can make nice looking outfits for 2-3k if you know what you are doing.

"Crafting equivalent gear" isn't the right metric to use since if we were just crafting our gear we would only do it once per motif and be done with it. We weren't even doing much of that because the best gear for most builds involves tons of dropped items. That was the whole point of why we were asking for such a bold and feature-rich outfit system.

Yeah I could just do all Khajiit medium, never dye it, and call it a day. It would look good. That's not even close to the point. The point is that we wanted this system to give us absolute aesthetic freedom. They came SO CLOSE to getting it right but are decimating the system's use-value due to this per-use cost. The system is shooting its own purpose in the foot right now and it's sad to see so many hopes and aspiration just *** die on the PTS floor because someone thinks they can monetize "outfit change tokens". Give me a break.

When I was thinking up ways that transmute could be implemented, I ended up with the idea that you'd have to craft an item in the style you wanted, and then apply it to the item that you wanted to change, being a 1 time use, permanent type deal.

The outfit system we have far exceeded that expectation in terms of usability and cost.

I mean this was one of the very first outfits I made, and still remains one of my favourite combos


That was done with existing motif knowledge I had, and cost less than 5k gold.

You also need to consider the fact that the outfit system is going to compete with costumes, something that actually makes ZOS money. It's naive to think that a company is going to make something that competes with a revenue stream completely free to access.

I compare outfit costs to crafting gear because before the system, if you wanted to look like that, you would have to go out and craft that gear yourself.

Fashion is endgame. It's what you do when you have done everything else, given that it has zero impact on actual gameplay. If you can't afford the cost of an outfit, then there are probably other things you should be spending your gold on first.

Wait, are you seriously trying to justify the cost because you imagined it would be worse in a system you made up in your own head? That's not... a super great line of argumentation. Like you can literally make any old contrived system you want. Look I just made one up where you pay a billion dollars just to change your helmet. That wouldn't be a great justification if it ended up costing five dollars instead.

And there is no reason to expect that outfits will compete with costumes. People were saying we'd never even have an outfit system because it would compete with costumes. As it turns out, however, costumes provide their own unique, irreplaceable aesthetics that are worthy of independent consideration. We're talking about cosmetics, we are already assuming people are going to be particular, and the idea that someone can go "oh, this heavy armor set is a good enough replacement where I won't spend money on That Cool New Costume" is more than a little dubious.

I compare outfit costs to crafting gear because before the system, if you wanted to look like that, you would have to go out and craft that gear yourself.

Yeah, and that's still a bad comparison. On average, people were not doing that. It's like saying that people were grinding for perfect trait gear before the transmutation system. Sure, a handful of edge cases definitely were, but on average people were just waiting it out until the devs addressed the problem.

I am also completely tired of this argument that "fashion has zero impact on actual gameplay." That's obviously and categorically false. If it weren't an essential part of gameplay then they wouldn't be driving their whole business model on cosmetics. For goodness sake you yourself are calling it "endgame". And don't lecture me about where I'm spending my gold. You are talking to an Emperor, a Grand Overlord, and a Veteran Trail Hardmode player. This game has been one of my primary diversions since launch. Maybe you should come to terms with the fact that even hardcore players are struggling to keep up when it comes to investing in motifs, let alone having the gold to get to change and dye their outfit as much as they should be able to.

So then, what do you think would be a fair cost for an outfit system?

Would it require a style material per piece? Because that works out more expensive than the current gold cost most of the time.

Or would you have the entire thing be completely free, and completely invalidate crafted styles?

Minno

Plus side, just use the pts to craft your outfit, then spend the gold it takes for that outfit only.

Don't bother otherwise; too much gold.

Waffennacht

Recremen wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

If you use the most expensive style in every single slot, and dye every slot the final cost comes out at 25k gold

That is still a lot less than what it would cost to craft equivalent gear.

Plus you can make nice looking outfits for 2-3k if you know what you are doing.

"Crafting equivalent gear" isn't the right metric to use since if we were just crafting our gear we would only do it once per motif and be done with it. We weren't even doing much of that because the best gear for most builds involves tons of dropped items. That was the whole point of why we were asking for such a bold and feature-rich outfit system.

Yeah I could just do all Khajiit medium, never dye it, and call it a day. It would look good. That's not even close to the point. The point is that we wanted this system to give us absolute aesthetic freedom. They came SO CLOSE to getting it right but are decimating the system's use-value due to this per-use cost. The system is shooting its own purpose in the foot right now and it's sad to see so many hopes and aspiration just *** die on the PTS floor because someone thinks they can monetize "outfit change tokens". Give me a break.

When I was thinking up ways that transmute could be implemented, I ended up with the idea that you'd have to craft an item in the style you wanted, and then apply it to the item that you wanted to change, being a 1 time use, permanent type deal.

The outfit system we have far exceeded that expectation in terms of usability and cost.

I mean this was one of the very first outfits I made, and still remains one of my favourite combos


That was done with existing motif knowledge I had, and cost less than 5k gold.

You also need to consider the fact that the outfit system is going to compete with costumes, something that actually makes ZOS money. It's naive to think that a company is going to make something that competes with a revenue stream completely free to access.

I compare outfit costs to crafting gear because before the system, if you wanted to look like that, you would have to go out and craft that gear yourself.

Fashion is endgame. It's what you do when you have done everything else, given that it has zero impact on actual gameplay. If you can't afford the cost of an outfit, then there are probably other things you should be spending your gold on first.

Wait, are you seriously trying to justify the cost because you imagined it would be worse in a system you made up in your own head? That's not... a super great line of argumentation. Like you can literally make any old contrived system you want. Look I just made one up where you pay a billion dollars just to change your helmet. That wouldn't be a great justification if it ended up costing five dollars instead.

And there is no reason to expect that outfits will compete with costumes. People were saying we'd never even have an outfit system because it would compete with costumes. As it turns out, however, costumes provide their own unique, irreplaceable aesthetics that are worthy of independent consideration. We're talking about cosmetics, we are already assuming people are going to be particular, and the idea that someone can go "oh, this heavy armor set is a good enough replacement where I won't spend money on That Cool New Costume" is more than a little dubious.

I compare outfit costs to crafting gear because before the system, if you wanted to look like that, you would have to go out and craft that gear yourself.

Yeah, and that's still a bad comparison. On average, people were not doing that. It's like saying that people were grinding for perfect trait gear before the transmutation system. Sure, a handful of edge cases definitely were, but on average people were just waiting it out until the devs addressed the problem.

I am also completely tired of this argument that "fashion has zero impact on actual gameplay." That's obviously and categorically false. If it weren't an essential part of gameplay then they wouldn't be driving their whole business model on cosmetics. For goodness sake you yourself are calling it "endgame". And don't lecture me about where I'm spending my gold. You are talking to an Emperor, a Grand Overlord, and a Veteran Trail Hardmode player. This game has been one of my primary diversions since launch. Maybe you should come to terms with the fact that even hardcore players are struggling to keep up when it comes to investing in motifs, let alone having the gold to get to change and dye their outfit as much as they should be able to.

Real quick. This is how American Government spending works.

They say they are gonna spend 1 bil dollars next year, then after a few months they say they have reduced that amount by 500 mill, then say say, "Look we saved you 500 million dollars!"

In reality, nothing has yet been spent nor saved.


But it makes people feel better lulz

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Recremen wrote: »

The system is shooting its own purpose in the foot right now and it's sad to see so many hopes and aspiration just *** die on the PTS floor because someone thinks they can monetize "outfit change tokens". Give me a break.

TBH I'm wondering why they didn't make the Outfit Change Tokens a way to subvert the 'you need to know the Motif to apply the style' limitation. I suppose it would compete with Crown Store Motifs but...who was buying those anyway? And I don't believe they all are, or even were at one time, available for purchase.

Recremen

Sixty5 wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

If you use the most expensive style in every single slot, and dye every slot the final cost comes out at 25k gold

That is still a lot less than what it would cost to craft equivalent gear.

Plus you can make nice looking outfits for 2-3k if you know what you are doing.

"Crafting equivalent gear" isn't the right metric to use since if we were just crafting our gear we would only do it once per motif and be done with it. We weren't even doing much of that because the best gear for most builds involves tons of dropped items. That was the whole point of why we were asking for such a bold and feature-rich outfit system.

Yeah I could just do all Khajiit medium, never dye it, and call it a day. It would look good. That's not even close to the point. The point is that we wanted this system to give us absolute aesthetic freedom. They came SO CLOSE to getting it right but are decimating the system's use-value due to this per-use cost. The system is shooting its own purpose in the foot right now and it's sad to see so many hopes and aspiration just *** die on the PTS floor because someone thinks they can monetize "outfit change tokens". Give me a break.

When I was thinking up ways that transmute could be implemented, I ended up with the idea that you'd have to craft an item in the style you wanted, and then apply it to the item that you wanted to change, being a 1 time use, permanent type deal.

The outfit system we have far exceeded that expectation in terms of usability and cost.

I mean this was one of the very first outfits I made, and still remains one of my favourite combos


That was done with existing motif knowledge I had, and cost less than 5k gold.

You also need to consider the fact that the outfit system is going to compete with costumes, something that actually makes ZOS money. It's naive to think that a company is going to make something that competes with a revenue stream completely free to access.

I compare outfit costs to crafting gear because before the system, if you wanted to look like that, you would have to go out and craft that gear yourself.

Fashion is endgame. It's what you do when you have done everything else, given that it has zero impact on actual gameplay. If you can't afford the cost of an outfit, then there are probably other things you should be spending your gold on first.

Wait, are you seriously trying to justify the cost because you imagined it would be worse in a system you made up in your own head? That's not... a super great line of argumentation. Like you can literally make any old contrived system you want. Look I just made one up where you pay a billion dollars just to change your helmet. That wouldn't be a great justification if it ended up costing five dollars instead.

And there is no reason to expect that outfits will compete with costumes. People were saying we'd never even have an outfit system because it would compete with costumes. As it turns out, however, costumes provide their own unique, irreplaceable aesthetics that are worthy of independent consideration. We're talking about cosmetics, we are already assuming people are going to be particular, and the idea that someone can go "oh, this heavy armor set is a good enough replacement where I won't spend money on That Cool New Costume" is more than a little dubious.

I compare outfit costs to crafting gear because before the system, if you wanted to look like that, you would have to go out and craft that gear yourself.

Yeah, and that's still a bad comparison. On average, people were not doing that. It's like saying that people were grinding for perfect trait gear before the transmutation system. Sure, a handful of edge cases definitely were, but on average people were just waiting it out until the devs addressed the problem.

I am also completely tired of this argument that "fashion has zero impact on actual gameplay." That's obviously and categorically false. If it weren't an essential part of gameplay then they wouldn't be driving their whole business model on cosmetics. For goodness sake you yourself are calling it "endgame". And don't lecture me about where I'm spending my gold. You are talking to an Emperor, a Grand Overlord, and a Veteran Trail Hardmode player. This game has been one of my primary diversions since launch. Maybe you should come to terms with the fact that even hardcore players are struggling to keep up when it comes to investing in motifs, let alone having the gold to get to change and dye their outfit as much as they should be able to.

So then, what do you think would be a fair cost for an outfit system?

Would it require a style material per piece? Because that works out more expensive than the current gold cost most of the time.

Or would you have the entire thing be completely free, and completely invalidate crafted styles?

I think using the outfit system should be completely free. You are wrong to believe that invalidates crafted styles, however. You do know that you have to learn the motif in order to use that outfit style, right? If someone has learned the motif, they were never going to get you to craft it for them to begin with. And you talk as if crafted styles were a huge part of the economy anyway. It wasn't. Most people were crafting their own or going with dropped gear. And when it comes down to it, I'd way rather sacrifice the tiny use value I got from crafting for the giant use value I'd get from a proper outfit system.

Recremen

Minno wrote: »

Plus side, just use the pts to craft your outfit, then spend the gold it takes for that outfit only.

Don't bother otherwise; too much gold.

I'd rather give consistent, well-reasoned feedback about how this is a bad idea and should change, though.

Elsonso

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Did they really say "it is what it is"?

Yeah.

I was hoping for a little more of a reason, but I figure it is just because they want a gold sink to put some brakes on the number of changes. I mean, he did a good job selling the fact that nothing has changed and that only the new system has gold charges, but I was hoping for more along the lines of why they need to do it in Outfit System.

Gina did hint that they were going to change the prices before Live.

They also said they made some significant changes to the system based on feedback, but never said what that was. Obviously, not charging gold.

Edit: I find myself wondering whether the cost of creating the outfits will be a significant factor and limit how many outfits people create, which will limit the number of Crown outfit slots that people purchase. Maybe I will make a poll over the weekend.

Apache_Kid

Sixty5 wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

If you use the most expensive style in every single slot, and dye every slot the final cost comes out at 25k gold

That is still a lot less than what it would cost to craft equivalent gear.

Plus you can make nice looking outfits for 2-3k if you know what you are doing.

"Crafting equivalent gear" isn't the right metric to use since if we were just crafting our gear we would only do it once per motif and be done with it. We weren't even doing much of that because the best gear for most builds involves tons of dropped items. That was the whole point of why we were asking for such a bold and feature-rich outfit system.

Yeah I could just do all Khajiit medium, never dye it, and call it a day. It would look good. That's not even close to the point. The point is that we wanted this system to give us absolute aesthetic freedom. They came SO CLOSE to getting it right but are decimating the system's use-value due to this per-use cost. The system is shooting its own purpose in the foot right now and it's sad to see so many hopes and aspiration just *** die on the PTS floor because someone thinks they can monetize "outfit change tokens". Give me a break.

When I was thinking up ways that transmute could be implemented, I ended up with the idea that you'd have to craft an item in the style you wanted, and then apply it to the item that you wanted to change, being a 1 time use, permanent type deal.

The outfit system we have far exceeded that expectation in terms of usability and cost.

I mean this was one of the very first outfits I made, and still remains one of my favourite combos


That was done with existing motif knowledge I had, and cost less than 5k gold.

You also need to consider the fact that the outfit system is going to compete with costumes, something that actually makes ZOS money. It's naive to think that a company is going to make something that competes with a revenue stream completely free to access.

I compare outfit costs to crafting gear because before the system, if you wanted to look like that, you would have to go out and craft that gear yourself.

Fashion is endgame. It's what you do when you have done everything else, given that it has zero impact on actual gameplay. If you can't afford the cost of an outfit, then there are probably other things you should be spending your gold on first.

Wait, are you seriously trying to justify the cost because you imagined it would be worse in a system you made up in your own head? That's not... a super great line of argumentation. Like you can literally make any old contrived system you want. Look I just made one up where you pay a billion dollars just to change your helmet. That wouldn't be a great justification if it ended up costing five dollars instead.

And there is no reason to expect that outfits will compete with costumes. People were saying we'd never even have an outfit system because it would compete with costumes. As it turns out, however, costumes provide their own unique, irreplaceable aesthetics that are worthy of independent consideration. We're talking about cosmetics, we are already assuming people are going to be particular, and the idea that someone can go "oh, this heavy armor set is a good enough replacement where I won't spend money on That Cool New Costume" is more than a little dubious.

I compare outfit costs to crafting gear because before the system, if you wanted to look like that, you would have to go out and craft that gear yourself.

Yeah, and that's still a bad comparison. On average, people were not doing that. It's like saying that people were grinding for perfect trait gear before the transmutation system. Sure, a handful of edge cases definitely were, but on average people were just waiting it out until the devs addressed the problem.

I am also completely tired of this argument that "fashion has zero impact on actual gameplay." That's obviously and categorically false. If it weren't an essential part of gameplay then they wouldn't be driving their whole business model on cosmetics. For goodness sake you yourself are calling it "endgame". And don't lecture me about where I'm spending my gold. You are talking to an Emperor, a Grand Overlord, and a Veteran Trail Hardmode player. This game has been one of my primary diversions since launch. Maybe you should come to terms with the fact that even hardcore players are struggling to keep up when it comes to investing in motifs, let alone having the gold to get to change and dye their outfit as much as they should be able to.

So then, what do you think would be a fair cost for an outfit system?

Would it require a style material per piece? Because that works out more expensive than the current gold cost most of the time.

Or would you have the entire thing be completely free, and completely invalidate crafted styles?

Sixty5 wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

If you use the most expensive style in every single slot, and dye every slot the final cost comes out at 25k gold

That is still a lot less than what it would cost to craft equivalent gear.

Plus you can make nice looking outfits for 2-3k if you know what you are doing.

"Crafting equivalent gear" isn't the right metric to use since if we were just crafting our gear we would only do it once per motif and be done with it. We weren't even doing much of that because the best gear for most builds involves tons of dropped items. That was the whole point of why we were asking for such a bold and feature-rich outfit system.

Yeah I could just do all Khajiit medium, never dye it, and call it a day. It would look good. That's not even close to the point. The point is that we wanted this system to give us absolute aesthetic freedom. They came SO CLOSE to getting it right but are decimating the system's use-value due to this per-use cost. The system is shooting its own purpose in the foot right now and it's sad to see so many hopes and aspiration just *** die on the PTS floor because someone thinks they can monetize "outfit change tokens". Give me a break.

When I was thinking up ways that transmute could be implemented, I ended up with the idea that you'd have to craft an item in the style you wanted, and then apply it to the item that you wanted to change, being a 1 time use, permanent type deal.

The outfit system we have far exceeded that expectation in terms of usability and cost.

I mean this was one of the very first outfits I made, and still remains one of my favourite combos


That was done with existing motif knowledge I had, and cost less than 5k gold.

You also need to consider the fact that the outfit system is going to compete with costumes, something that actually makes ZOS money. It's naive to think that a company is going to make something that competes with a revenue stream completely free to access.

I compare outfit costs to crafting gear because before the system, if you wanted to look like that, you would have to go out and craft that gear yourself.

Fashion is endgame. It's what you do when you have done everything else, given that it has zero impact on actual gameplay. If you can't afford the cost of an outfit, then there are probably other things you should be spending your gold on first.

Wait, are you seriously trying to justify the cost because you imagined it would be worse in a system you made up in your own head? That's not... a super great line of argumentation. Like you can literally make any old contrived system you want. Look I just made one up where you pay a billion dollars just to change your helmet. That wouldn't be a great justification if it ended up costing five dollars instead.

And there is no reason to expect that outfits will compete with costumes. People were saying we'd never even have an outfit system because it would compete with costumes. As it turns out, however, costumes provide their own unique, irreplaceable aesthetics that are worthy of independent consideration. We're talking about cosmetics, we are already assuming people are going to be particular, and the idea that someone can go "oh, this heavy armor set is a good enough replacement where I won't spend money on That Cool New Costume" is more than a little dubious.

I compare outfit costs to crafting gear because before the system, if you wanted to look like that, you would have to go out and craft that gear yourself.

Yeah, and that's still a bad comparison. On average, people were not doing that. It's like saying that people were grinding for perfect trait gear before the transmutation system. Sure, a handful of edge cases definitely were, but on average people were just waiting it out until the devs addressed the problem.

I am also completely tired of this argument that "fashion has zero impact on actual gameplay." That's obviously and categorically false. If it weren't an essential part of gameplay then they wouldn't be driving their whole business model on cosmetics. For goodness sake you yourself are calling it "endgame". And don't lecture me about where I'm spending my gold. You are talking to an Emperor, a Grand Overlord, and a Veteran Trail Hardmode player. This game has been one of my primary diversions since launch. Maybe you should come to terms with the fact that even hardcore players are struggling to keep up when it comes to investing in motifs, let alone having the gold to get to change and dye their outfit as much as they should be able to.

So then, what do you think would be a fair cost for an outfit system?

Would it require a style material per piece? Because that works out more expensive than the current gold cost most of the time.

Or would you have the entire thing be completely free, and completely invalidate crafted styles?

Except many crafters like myself have all these style mats saved up that we could've used that are now essentially worthless.

Ragnarock41

Waffennacht wrote: »

25k is a *** ton

you know what I could buy for a 25k instead...

A stack of potions.. I would really love to have some potions right now.

Jjitsuboy98

Should be free.

Magdalina

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Why should I have to pay gold to use motifs I already know. Why did I bother saving up all these style materials. And now I'm being charged to use colors I already unlocked just to dye the outfit?
Nah man the fact that there is a cost is lame as hell. I already own the motifs why am I paying gold to use them??

Because crafting(especially crafting cp 160 legendary gear) is free?

I actually still can't believe they're really introducing this as a NOT crown store exclusive. This will directly undermine their crown store costumes sales so I wasn't expecting this. I guess they decided to throw us a bone for once and people are still complaining lol.

Derra

TBH - i like it from a pvp pov.
I dislike the concept of costumes currently that allow chars to look differently every minute in pvp.

From a pve pov? Why would you do this...
It defeats the core concept of what makes an outfitting system imo.

ValkynSketha

I wish they would change it to spend transmutation crystals instead 100 or 200 for a complete outfit.

Marabornwingrion

Enough with that gold sink.
Let us use style materials.

Arthg

They could make it possible to pay for the various pieces with the corresponding style material.
Like if you want a barbaric belt, you fork out 30 copper or something.
50 for bigger pieces maybe?
It could be on top of some gold, less than the price on the PTS, and that way the style materials would retain some market value.
Even better, a slider would allow you to trade off how much gold vs. style material you'd pay.

Just a thought.

Minno

Recremen wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Plus side, just use the pts to craft your outfit, then spend the gold it takes for that outfit only.

Don't bother otherwise; too much gold.

I'd rather give consistent, well-reasoned feedback about how this is a bad idea and should change, though.

Lol yeah but are they changing it yet? P
Jokes aside I agree.