MAGBLADE pvp theorycrafting

Waffennacht

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Typically people say running rattlecage isn't efficient because you get the same buff from sap; which is what I do.
However, it's great on magplar & not bad on magdk

Never been a fan of sap. Doesn't fit light armor playstyle imo. Maybe on a melee magblade, but destro resto degeneration is my go to

+ Mage guild passives.

How important is snare removal to your guys' magNB?

Snare removal? Cyro is full of snares. I run mistform and immovable pots. Snares snares snares everywhere

Hrm, maybe I can rely on Immovable potions.... Ty

Immovable pots don't stop snares or roots. You can try mist form. I'm not a huge fan of mist form though because i play a hot based build. I just try to avoid open fields, and have a way out planned before the fight starts

I'm not the biggest fan of mist form either (and frankly being a vamp will mess up my build)

My options seem to be: Light armor FM + annulment or heavy + resto + ?? Escapist poisons?

thankyourat

Waffennacht wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Typically people say running rattlecage isn't efficient because you get the same buff from sap; which is what I do.
However, it's great on magplar & not bad on magdk

Never been a fan of sap. Doesn't fit light armor playstyle imo. Maybe on a melee magblade, but destro resto degeneration is my go to

+ Mage guild passives.

How important is snare removal to your guys' magNB?

Snare removal? Cyro is full of snares. I run mistform and immovable pots. Snares snares snares everywhere

Hrm, maybe I can rely on Immovable potions.... Ty

Immovable pots don't stop snares or roots. You can try mist form. I'm not a huge fan of mist form though because i play a hot based build. I just try to avoid open fields, and have a way out planned before the fight starts

I'm not the biggest fan of mist form either (and frankly being a vamp will mess up my build)

My options seem to be: Light armor FM + annulment or heavy + resto + ?? Escapist poisons?

If you are down for using 2hand FM is great. But even in light armor without a 2hand you can get away without using any snare removal With smart use of cloak and good fight placement.

Waffennacht

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Typically people say running rattlecage isn't efficient because you get the same buff from sap; which is what I do.
However, it's great on magplar & not bad on magdk

Never been a fan of sap. Doesn't fit light armor playstyle imo. Maybe on a melee magblade, but destro resto degeneration is my go to

+ Mage guild passives.

How important is snare removal to your guys' magNB?

Snare removal? Cyro is full of snares. I run mistform and immovable pots. Snares snares snares everywhere

Hrm, maybe I can rely on Immovable potions.... Ty

Immovable pots don't stop snares or roots. You can try mist form. I'm not a huge fan of mist form though because i play a hot based build. I just try to avoid open fields, and have a way out planned before the fight starts

I'm not the biggest fan of mist form either (and frankly being a vamp will mess up my build)

My options seem to be: Light armor FM + annulment or heavy + resto + ?? Escapist poisons?

If you are down for using 2hand FM is great. But even in light armor without a 2hand you can get away without using any snare removal With smart use of cloak and good fight placement.

I was checking last night, seems to me that cloak doesn't remove snares, dunno if that's intended or not (and NPCs have a weird ability that instantly and consistently breaks cloak) but due to my lack of experience on NBs i don't think I can rely on smart use of cloak yet lmao.

Oh I'm definitely down for using 2h - except it's a bit risky on heavy (0 access to wards meaning your survival is dependent on being offensive, not easy to down when facing 3 opponents on a flag) but FM + Shield + major Expedition + cloak = not gonna die.

I can switch to light easily enough, but I like my heavy armor theme ATM.

Datthaw

I will have to say they need to change the tool tip for immovable pots because they say removes all disabling effects right? But it doesn't remove snares. Zos logic is a massive reduction to movement speed isn't a disabling effect.
Change it to say all stuns and knock backs or something

thankyourat

Waffennacht wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Typically people say running rattlecage isn't efficient because you get the same buff from sap; which is what I do.
However, it's great on magplar & not bad on magdk

Never been a fan of sap. Doesn't fit light armor playstyle imo. Maybe on a melee magblade, but destro resto degeneration is my go to

+ Mage guild passives.

How important is snare removal to your guys' magNB?

Snare removal? Cyro is full of snares. I run mistform and immovable pots. Snares snares snares everywhere

Hrm, maybe I can rely on Immovable potions.... Ty

Immovable pots don't stop snares or roots. You can try mist form. I'm not a huge fan of mist form though because i play a hot based build. I just try to avoid open fields, and have a way out planned before the fight starts

I'm not the biggest fan of mist form either (and frankly being a vamp will mess up my build)

My options seem to be: Light armor FM + annulment or heavy + resto + ?? Escapist poisons?

If you are down for using 2hand FM is great. But even in light armor without a 2hand you can get away without using any snare removal With smart use of cloak and good fight placement.

I was checking last night, seems to me that cloak doesn't remove snares, dunno if that's intended or not (and NPCs have a weird ability that instantly and consistently breaks cloak) but due to my lack of experience on NBs i don't think I can rely on smart use of cloak yet lmao.

Oh I'm definitely down for using 2h - except it's a bit risky on heavy (0 access to wards meaning your survival is dependent on being offensive, not easy to down when facing 3 opponents on a flag) but FM + Shield + major Expedition + cloak = not gonna die.

I can switch to light easily enough, but I like my heavy armor theme ATM.

Vampires bane from the npcs breaks cloak consistently. FM is so strong on light armor magblade you don't even need a shield just healing ward. i usually play 5 shackle/ 5 spinner/ 1 domi. You're right cloak plus FM, plus major expedition and the speed boost from conceal means you can get away from anyone whenever you want. I haven't tried it with heavy armor are you planning on using concealed weapon? If you ate it may be a little hard to sustain in heavy armor

Lord-Otto

Cloak doesn't purge snares, why would it? It's not a DoT.
NPCs pull you out of Cloak with their slow projectiles. They cast it before you cloak and it connects when you're invisible. This used to be the same with players' delayed attacks, as hard casted Frags, but was patched due to complaining. NPCs don't get the same patching as players, compare Eclipse.

Disabling effects, dubbed "hard CCs", are effects that completely prevent you from doing anything - disable you. Stuns, knockdowns, fears, ... Snares and roots and such hinder you, but you can still perform actions. They're "soft CCs".

I got something around 1800 mag regen. And Lich on back. Relying on heavy attacks is baaad, can dodge inferno and block resto. Relying on Elemental Drain is slightly less bad, but still - it can be purged. Plus, you have so much better stuff to put on your bar, unless you're in heavy armor.

No reliable way to get rid of snares on mag builds, IMO. Big plus for stamina in Cyro. Even ENTRAPMENT poisons are unreliable and cost your weapon enchantment, meaning loss of damage and/or sustain.
Mist is good with Cloak, it really is.

Waffennacht

I was thinking 2h backbar actually, that's why no access to ward (or spot heal I know of... That maleficent move worries me)

I am thinking no ward (only hots + TK) could work, it would just mean a higher health disengagement level, also would make 1vX a bit harder to get out of... Just would have to get better...

thankyourat

Waffennacht wrote: »

I was thinking 2h backbar actually, that's why no access to ward (or spot heal I know of... That maleficent move worries me)

I am thinking no ward (only hots + TK) could work, it would just mean a higher health disengagement level, also would make 1vX a bit harder to get out of... Just would have to get better...

You ever try resto as your attack bar and 2hand as the back bar for burst and mobility. It plays really smooth. Are you using troll king for your heavy armor build since you aren't using a resto staff?

Lord-Otto

And all that just to counter snares so you don't get zerged down... And you make yourself more vulnerable to multiple opponents in the process of implementing ways to combat being zerged down...

Yeah, I still stand to my claim, snares are a problem to magicka you can't solve without losing a limb or two.

Going 2h seems like a huge sacrifice to me. No burst heal from Healing Ward or no light attacks, damage passive and ranged CC from destro is something I would never consider.

Buuut, you are the extravagant theorycrafter here, so I'll let you have the joy of testing it out, while I'm sitting here, waiting patiently for your experiences.

;3

Waffennacht

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I was thinking 2h backbar actually, that's why no access to ward (or spot heal I know of... That maleficent move worries me)

I am thinking no ward (only hots + TK) could work, it would just mean a higher health disengagement level, also would make 1vX a bit harder to get out of... Just would have to get better...

You ever try resto as your attack bar and 2hand as the back bar for burst and mobility. It plays really smooth. Are you using troll king for your heavy armor build since you aren't using a resto staff?

I have not tried that. The damage would suffer.. by at minimum 10% (though you could sub mark over drain) but lose penetration and DMG buff Passives. I would rather try to do 2h resto with 2h burst, the play sounds interesting...

Resto bar would look like... Swallow, healing, cripple, mark, and entropy prob 2h looking like... FM, Merc, refreshing, impale and cloak.

Hit Merc swap, set up Burt via heavies, cripple and swallow + be immortal lol with all them hots and resto

Swap to 2H when ult is ready and burst -could potentially roll lotus (does it stun from invis or is that only the Stam version?) And run berserker to hit through resistance...?

I'm outside smoking and it's really @#$&in cold can't think too much

Datthaw

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Cloak doesn't purge snares, why would it? It's not a DoT.
NPCs pull you out of Cloak with their slow projectiles. They cast it before you cloak and it connects when you're invisible. This used to be the same with players' delayed attacks, as hard casted Frags, but was patched due to complaining. NPCs don't get the same patching as players, compare Eclipse.

Disabling effects, dubbed "hard CCs", are effects that completely prevent you from doing anything - disable you. Stuns, knockdowns, fears, ... Snares and roots and such hinder you, but you can still perform actions. They're "soft CCs".

I got something around 1800 mag regen. And Lich on back. Relying on heavy attacks is baaad, can dodge inferno and block resto. Relying on Elemental Drain is slightly less bad, but still - it can be purged. Plus, you have so much better stuff to put on your bar, unless you're in heavy armor.

No reliable way to get rid of snares on mag builds, IMO. Big plus for stamina in Cyro. Even ENTRAPMENT poisons are unreliable and cost your weapon enchantment, meaning loss of damage and/or sustain.
Mist is good with Cloak, it really is.

Yeah cloak and mist wor really well atm, I get into *** I can pop healing ward then mistform, get to los and Cloak out. I lose some of the heal proc from mistform but it ends before ward fully does so you still get a heal. Plus if you're on the run you can pop another ward once you're able to cloak.

I can't get into the whole 2h forward momentum thing, I think it's kinda lame. I feel people do it jis because some streamer does it. But that's just how I feel. Imo if you're melee retreating maneuver is better, you get major exp and the cc immunity. Yeah it costs a little more. But nothing it going to catch you of you pop retreating and Cloak out with concealed weapons

Waffennacht

Datthaw wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Cloak doesn't purge snares, why would it? It's not a DoT.
NPCs pull you out of Cloak with their slow projectiles. They cast it before you cloak and it connects when you're invisible. This used to be the same with players' delayed attacks, as hard casted Frags, but was patched due to complaining. NPCs don't get the same patching as players, compare Eclipse.

Disabling effects, dubbed "hard CCs", are effects that completely prevent you from doing anything - disable you. Stuns, knockdowns, fears, ... Snares and roots and such hinder you, but you can still perform actions. They're "soft CCs".

I got something around 1800 mag regen. And Lich on back. Relying on heavy attacks is baaad, can dodge inferno and block resto. Relying on Elemental Drain is slightly less bad, but still - it can be purged. Plus, you have so much better stuff to put on your bar, unless you're in heavy armor.

No reliable way to get rid of snares on mag builds, IMO. Big plus for stamina in Cyro. Even ENTRAPMENT poisons are unreliable and cost your weapon enchantment, meaning loss of damage and/or sustain.
Mist is good with Cloak, it really is.

Yeah cloak and mist wor really well atm, I get into *** I can pop healing ward then mistform, get to los and Cloak out. I lose some of the heal proc from mistform but it ends before ward fully does so you still get a heal. Plus if you're on the run you can pop another ward once you're able to cloak.

I can't get into the whole 2h forward momentum thing, I think it's kinda lane and people just it because some streamer said it's great. Imo if you're melee retreating maneuver is better, you get major exp and the cc immunity.

I don't watch streamers, I have learned to love FM from it being on my Sorc. I don't wanna do vamp because I wanna run TK, sure you can do both but I have found non vamp + TK ATM is stronger, if you can manage snare removal.

In BGs, there are many times I must stand ground for tactical reasons, and being able to retreat after is very key to success. You will be snared when hit by 2+ players, you must be able to get out if you wanna survive.

With shuffle being limited to medium, choices are limited.

Plus... Death Knight... It's a freaking Death Knight!!!

Datthaw

Waffennacht wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Cloak doesn't purge snares, why would it? It's not a DoT.
NPCs pull you out of Cloak with their slow projectiles. They cast it before you cloak and it connects when you're invisible. This used to be the same with players' delayed attacks, as hard casted Frags, but was patched due to complaining. NPCs don't get the same patching as players, compare Eclipse.

Disabling effects, dubbed "hard CCs", are effects that completely prevent you from doing anything - disable you. Stuns, knockdowns, fears, ... Snares and roots and such hinder you, but you can still perform actions. They're "soft CCs".

I got something around 1800 mag regen. And Lich on back. Relying on heavy attacks is baaad, can dodge inferno and block resto. Relying on Elemental Drain is slightly less bad, but still - it can be purged. Plus, you have so much better stuff to put on your bar, unless you're in heavy armor.

No reliable way to get rid of snares on mag builds, IMO. Big plus for stamina in Cyro. Even ENTRAPMENT poisons are unreliable and cost your weapon enchantment, meaning loss of damage and/or sustain.
Mist is good with Cloak, it really is.

Yeah cloak and mist wor really well atm, I get into *** I can pop healing ward then mistform, get to los and Cloak out. I lose some of the heal proc from mistform but it ends before ward fully does so you still get a heal. Plus if you're on the run you can pop another ward once you're able to cloak.

I can't get into the whole 2h forward momentum thing, I think it's kinda lane and people just it because some streamer said it's great. Imo if you're melee retreating maneuver is better, you get major exp and the cc immunity.

I don't watch streamers, I have learned to love FM from it being on my Sorc. I don't wanna do vamp because I wanna run TK, sure you can do both but I have found non vamp + TK ATM is stronger, if you can manage snare removal.

In BGs, there are many times I must stand ground for tactical reasons, and being able to retreat after is very key to success. You will be snared when hit by 2+ players, you must be able to get out if you wanna survive.

With shuffle being limited to medium, choices are limited.

Plus... Death Knight... It's a freaking Death Knight!!!

That's why I said retreating maneuver is better imo

Lord-Otto

Troll King is bugged... Your self esteem will become OVER 9000! if you craft a build without it. Mist+Cloak is just such a good combo.

Plus, vampire skin is sexy. So...

Waffennacht

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Troll King is bugged... Your self esteem will become OVER 9000! if you craft a build without it. Mist+Cloak is just such a good combo.

Plus, vampire skin is sexy. So...

Oh I could just use Skoria, or Malubeth or Pirate I'd even give Earthgore a go if I had it.

But, Malubeth might look pretty cool.... Bloodspawn is always solid.

I'm pretty sold on not being a vamp lmfao (I have 2 already as well, and a WW)

thankyourat

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Troll King is bugged... Your self esteem will become OVER 9000! if you craft a build without it. Mist+Cloak is just such a good combo.

Plus, vampire skin is sexy. So...

But mist form stops all your hots and magicka regen. Do you give up shade to run it?

Lord-Otto

Bloodspawn is always nice. Skoria is also interesting, but low proc rate.

Mist on NB is really an additional escape tool. HoTs don't matter if you cast Healing Ward beforehand. Magicka... yes, you gotta be careful.
You could give up Shade if you expect it to be guarded, anyway. Close-up group fights and such. But I could always manage slotting Mist and Cloak AND Shades - by sacrificing Siphoning Strikes. Judge for yourself.

Datthaw

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Bloodspawn is always nice. Skoria is also interesting, but low proc rate.

Mist on NB is really an additional escape tool. HoTs don't matter if you cast Healing Ward beforehand. Magicka... yes, you gotta be careful.
You could give up Shade if you expect it to be guarded, anyway. Close-up group fights and such. But I could always manage slotting Mist and Cloak AND Shades - by sacrificing Siphoning Strikes. Judge for yourself.

What the hell platforms do yall play? Image is so bugged on pc in cyro I just laugh when I hear people say slot it and thithink they never actually play. Out of cyro for duels I use it, I don't play much bgs so I can't speak for image being bugged there

thankyourat

Datthaw wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Bloodspawn is always nice. Skoria is also interesting, but low proc rate.

Mist on NB is really an additional escape tool. HoTs don't matter if you cast Healing Ward beforehand. Magicka... yes, you gotta be careful.
You could give up Shade if you expect it to be guarded, anyway. Close-up group fights and such. But I could always manage slotting Mist and Cloak AND Shades - by sacrificing Siphoning Strikes. Judge for yourself.

What the hell platforms do yall play? Image is so bugged on pc in cyro I just laugh when I hear people say slot it and thithink they never actually play. Out of cyro for duels I use it, I don't play much bgs so I can't speak for image being bugged there

Shade is bugged but it does work. The only time it bugs out for me is if I'm getting dog piled by alot of enemies if i successfully pull only 3 or 4 enemies it will usually work without a problem

Datthaw

thankyourat wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Bloodspawn is always nice. Skoria is also interesting, but low proc rate.

Mist on NB is really an additional escape tool. HoTs don't matter if you cast Healing Ward beforehand. Magicka... yes, you gotta be careful.
You could give up Shade if you expect it to be guarded, anyway. Close-up group fights and such. But I could always manage slotting Mist and Cloak AND Shades - by sacrificing Siphoning Strikes. Judge for yourself.

What the hell platforms do yall play? Image is so bugged on pc in cyro I just laugh when I hear people say slot it and thithink they never actually play. Out of cyro for duels I use it, I don't play much bgs so I can't speak for image being bugged there

Shade is bugged but it does work. The only time it bugs out for me is if I'm getting dog piled by alot of enemies if i successfully pull only 3 or 4 enemies it will usually work without a problem

That's the problem I've found, when you need it the most it's not there. No way a reliable escape

thankyourat

Datthaw wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Datthaw wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Bloodspawn is always nice. Skoria is also interesting, but low proc rate.

Mist on NB is really an additional escape tool. HoTs don't matter if you cast Healing Ward beforehand. Magicka... yes, you gotta be careful.
You could give up Shade if you expect it to be guarded, anyway. Close-up group fights and such. But I could always manage slotting Mist and Cloak AND Shades - by sacrificing Siphoning Strikes. Judge for yourself.

What the hell platforms do yall play? Image is so bugged on pc in cyro I just laugh when I hear people say slot it and thithink they never actually play. Out of cyro for duels I use it, I don't play much bgs so I can't speak for image being bugged there

Shade is bugged but it does work. The only time it bugs out for me is if I'm getting dog piled by alot of enemies if i successfully pull only 3 or 4 enemies it will usually work without a problem

That's the problem I've found, when you need it the most it's not there. No way a reliable escape

If I'm getting ganged up on as a magblade the group outplayed me. I just try to get better positioning next time or avoid that group altogether

brandonv516

Wizards / Spinners / Skoria

Destro (Lightning charged w/ shock enchant)
Resto (defending w/ spell power enchant)

This is definitely a more supporting role but I've had a lot of success with it in BG.

zParallaxz

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I was thinking 2h backbar actually, that's why no access to ward (or spot heal I know of... That maleficent move worries me)

I am thinking no ward (only hots + TK) could work, it would just mean a higher health disengagement level, also would make 1vX a bit harder to get out of... Just would have to get better...

You ever try resto as your attack bar and 2hand as the back bar for burst and mobility. It plays really smooth. Are you using troll king for your heavy armor build since you aren't using a resto staff?

No please just no

kaithuzar

2h, destro, or dw for attack; although, 2h with defensive ice staff could be interesting but you pretty much have to be argonian to play it if you want swallow soul & path to give big enough heals. Also probably need 80 points into blessed

Adenoma

@Waffennacht , crazy ideas here - but what's the difference in tooltip between dampen magicka and healing ward at say 50% health? It would be kinda nice to run FM on a buff bar, go HOT-heavy, and then have the weaving + 8% single target increase of destro.

Waffennacht

.

Adenoma wrote: »

@Waffennacht , crazy ideas here - but what's the difference in tooltip between dampen magicka and healing ward at say 50% health? It would be kinda nice to run FM on a buff bar, go HOT-heavy, and then have the weaving + 8% single target increase of destro.

Right now I'm heavy - it would be better to go light armor, run dampen backbar with FM, and refreshing and cloak (entropy too)

Front would be ele drain, merc, swallow, impale cripple - because it's like you don't need siphon

Then I'd run bloodspawn and Transmutation for mitigation (cuz no front bar defense)

And it's a tanky light armor NB death knight

Which is probably what I'm gonna do, I'll miss the heavy armor, but there really isn't a reason for it. + More Penetration, crit, etc

Built for BGs, imo, can also keep TK, cuz Tk under a shield is massive healing, but BS will help against burst which is more deadly against Light Armor

kaithuzar

@Adenoma of course it's possible to go hot heavy with 80 points into blessed as an argonian but how viable is it for 1vx play? That's what I'm interested in. I think it would be strong for 1v1 or duels but may lack recovery from a bad situation or even killing potential against good players

Adenoma

@Waffennacht , I wasn't planning on that being heavy armor anyway. It seems like an interesting concept at least.

Waffennacht

Adenoma wrote: »

@Waffennacht , I wasn't planning on that being heavy armor anyway. It seems like an interesting concept at least.

I know it'll be successful because I've essentially ran the same set up on other classes.

If I had the pieces, what I would like is spell power cure back bar on 2H, so I can hit rally and refreshing pre combat for that buff, but Transmutation is like the defensive version and just as good.

kaithuzar

What I've been wondering about lately is ele drain vs mark target/piercing mark?

Is ele drain really a viable source of resources as people are claiming?
Mark target would eliminate the need for detect pots, maybe?

Right now I'm not running either but I feel the extra penetration is hard to pass up