MAGBLADE pvp theorycrafting

Xvorg

zParallaxz wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I was thinking 2h backbar actually, that's why no access to ward (or spot heal I know of... That maleficent move worries me)

I am thinking no ward (only hots + TK) could work, it would just mean a higher health disengagement level, also would make 1vX a bit harder to get out of... Just would have to get better...

You ever try resto as your attack bar and 2hand as the back bar for burst and mobility. It plays really smooth. Are you using troll king for your heavy armor build since you aren't using a resto staff?

No please just no

Its not bad it's basicaly the same thing as resto attack bar and dual weild burst bar. It sounds bad but you can one shot on your burst bar. 2hand and dual weild will give you the exact same spell damage. It has more burst than a destro build and more mobility. You give up some sustained damage for burst damage and mobility. The biggest factor is it plays great open world. It's decent in duels as well. I've beaten pretty much every type of magblade build you can name with this build. It's stronger than it sounds. That's what's great about magblade however you want to build it you can be effective

Stop that nonsense dude destro is the highest single target damage u can get because of ancient knowledge passive and then dual wield with the twin blade and blunt passive. This idea of using any besides destro or dual wield is pointless and will only kill low skilled people. I don’t know where u get this idea that 2h has more burst than destro.

Not really. I've been using 2H on my mageblade since some time and I can tell you that Follow up is very good before CW or Soul Harvest.

Subversus

Xvorg wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I was thinking 2h backbar actually, that's why no access to ward (or spot heal I know of... That maleficent move worries me)

I am thinking no ward (only hots + TK) could work, it would just mean a higher health disengagement level, also would make 1vX a bit harder to get out of... Just would have to get better...

You ever try resto as your attack bar and 2hand as the back bar for burst and mobility. It plays really smooth. Are you using troll king for your heavy armor build since you aren't using a resto staff?

I have not tried that. The damage would suffer.. by at minimum 10% (though you could sub mark over drain) but lose penetration and DMG buff Passives. I would rather try to do 2h resto with 2h burst, the play sounds interesting...

Resto bar would look like... Swallow, healing, cripple, mark, and entropy prob 2h looking like... FM, Merc, refreshing, impale and cloak.

Hit Merc swap, set up Burt via heavies, cripple and swallow + be immortal lol with all them hots and resto

Swap to 2H when ult is ready and burst -could potentially roll lotus (does it stun from invis or is that only the Stam version?) And run berserker to hit through resistance...?

I'm outside smoking and it's really @#$&in cold can't think too much

What about using pelinal's? I've been considering that option from a while in a 2H and destro option.

Of course, you need to build towards WD and pelinals must be 5 LA to retain certain penetration. A 4 pieces DKS or even Morag Tong could help. Even that crap of Ice Furnace seems a decent option in 4 pieces.

And you get a monster available

Amberplasm is better than pelinals if you are a mag build imo, far better.

Xvorg

Subversus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I was thinking 2h backbar actually, that's why no access to ward (or spot heal I know of... That maleficent move worries me)

I am thinking no ward (only hots + TK) could work, it would just mean a higher health disengagement level, also would make 1vX a bit harder to get out of... Just would have to get better...

You ever try resto as your attack bar and 2hand as the back bar for burst and mobility. It plays really smooth. Are you using troll king for your heavy armor build since you aren't using a resto staff?

I have not tried that. The damage would suffer.. by at minimum 10% (though you could sub mark over drain) but lose penetration and DMG buff Passives. I would rather try to do 2h resto with 2h burst, the play sounds interesting...

Resto bar would look like... Swallow, healing, cripple, mark, and entropy prob 2h looking like... FM, Merc, refreshing, impale and cloak.

Hit Merc swap, set up Burt via heavies, cripple and swallow + be immortal lol with all them hots and resto

Swap to 2H when ult is ready and burst -could potentially roll lotus (does it stun from invis or is that only the Stam version?) And run berserker to hit through resistance...?

I'm outside smoking and it's really @#$&in cold can't think too much

What about using pelinal's? I've been considering that option from a while in a 2H and destro option.

Of course, you need to build towards WD and pelinals must be 5 LA to retain certain penetration. A 4 pieces DKS or even Morag Tong could help. Even that crap of Ice Furnace seems a decent option in 4 pieces.

And you get a monster available

Amberplasm is better than pelinals if you are a mag build imo, far better.

Amberplasm doesn't synergizes with FM's major brut

Think about it.

NyassaV

Waffennacht wrote: »

Jumped on my Mag blade last night (love the available abilities)

Just couldn't get that "death knight" thread outta my Head.

So what I'm using is:

Troll king - cuz it makes u tanky
Axiom - because I don't wanna gold anything out any time soon and it's very useful
Transmutation - one of the best defensive sets

Heavy armor cuz I'm a death knight lol

Front bar is: swallow soul, ele drain, Merc, the Execute ability, cripple ult Soul tether
Back bar is resto staff (maybe 2h for BGs) healing ward (or FM) cloak, entropy, refreshing path (yay expedition and heals) siphon, ult Champion

Mad resistance and heals, (4k impenetrable) hots via Swallow, refreshing and entropy (yay TK triggers) burst is Merc + Tether into Execute using cripple and swallow to work em down.

No shades cuz it gives my xbox a nervous break down.

Buffed is something like 3.3k ish spell DMG? 1800 Regen + ele drain and siphon

It's got everything, plus perma invisibility!

Loads o fun (I highly recommend not perma invisibility in duels - it's not cool)

Don't use Axiom, it doesn't buff the spectral bow.

Waffennacht

@Hollery ZoS came and said they had fixed it (now I don't remember exactly what was said), but if it's not fixed now, it will be soon.

I use it because I don't wanna make any more gold sets ATM (lol)

Personally I'm very interested in Spell power Cure (I wonder if I can make PuGs Strong despite themselves)
And scathing mage.

And quite frankly I really wanna use Axiom to make some sort of hybrid... But the best I've come up with is a Stam sorc with Curse (hurmpf)

My set idea is Axiom + Black Rose maybe... I dunno, every time I try I'm like "why?" The only really thing that's not available to both is shields.

I'm off on a tangent lol

NyassaV

Why you wanna gold out sets? Weapons are what matter

paallterrain148

@Waffennacht I've been collecting a SPC set for my magblade thinking it would be good. I've been trying wizards by recommendation and you have to be really poor for me to kill you wearing that + transmutation. I'm not very good either so that may be part of it.

I think SPC will give me the boost in damage I need while still offering group support. It's nice the flame staff is so easy to farm, I've deconned a few now they drop pretty often.

Datthaw

Dreth wrote: »

My experience so far has been a good one, but not because I feel like the heavy/snb has been all that strong. But it feels NATURAL. A lot of things just flow with this build compared to a meta style ranged/kite destro/resto build.

A lot of people try and think of magblade as an offensive class, but I would argue the opposite. We have no burst heal. The way to get the most out of hots is to slow the rate at which your health depletes. You wont survive burst some of these guys are putting out on the hots alone. By building defensively, I think you really maximize the sapping nature of the class, wearing them down slowly with sustained damage rather than bursting up front like a magDK.

Concealed weapon keeps major ward/prot up 100% of the time (not to mention stealth bonus). You dont have to worry about how you are going to gap close to pop your incap when you have tried the whole fight to keep the enemy away from you. You dont have to use the clunkiest weave in the game. You dont have to remember to lay down refreshing path every 6 seconds just to keep major ward/prot up when as soon as you lay it down you have to evacuate anyways bc you are getting pressured, rendering the damage/heals from the ability useless. A ranged raw damage magblade just doesnt make sense to me and it wasnt til I played a magDK that made me realize that ultra burst dps isnt the only way to play this class. Not to say there are not some very talented players out there doing it and making it work flawlessly, who I do commend, but I believe based on the way this class is designed they are fighting an uphill battle and this class needs to be reworked in order to better support that style of play if thats how its intended.

I dont know how many of you magblades have stamblades, but if you want to see pure burst, readily available at almost any time, lots of utility, burst heals and strong hots, it will really make you scratch your head and wonder where the hell magblade fell so far short of its stamina counterpart.

Again, this is all my opinion, and I am no elite 1vX'er, but finding a build with my magblade after struggling so long to try and force a playstyle that always just seemed like a crappy sorc was extremely refreshing, and I wish more people were open to building for melee magblade instead of the will proc meta we have right now.

Datthaw wrote: »

Dreth wrote: »

On the topics of death knights, this is how I have wanted to play my magblade from the beginning and brings to memory my old leeching/baharas/malubeths build from loooong ago. I put that build down years ago, and decided to join this light armor cant-kill-anything-without-will-proc club. I hate it. I hate weaving LA/swallow. I hate waiting for will to proc and it proccing outside a window of opportunity. It might work for some but in my experience its garbage. Melee magblade needs to make a comeback.

Some play LA melee magblade. Damage is ok. Burst sucks next to my stamblade. We really have no hard hitting combo outside of assn will. I put down my magblade for a long time because of this, thinking the class was just inferior or not for me, and picked up my magdk. I LOVE magdk. Through playing my magDK I sort of had a thought why cant I do the same tanky, sustained damage over burst playstyle that I do on my magDK that makes it so damn fun? This is what made me pick back up my magblade and see what could be done.

So last night I threw on some heavy shacklebreaker, TK, and war maiden. Running sword and board front bar with resto back. Its a blast! Finally I have the survivability to make my hots actually effective rather than people just bursting through them. Mobility still sucks but cloak helps with that. I dont have ambush slotted but I could. Crit and penetration is where I suffer. I slotted magelight and I am sitting at around 40% which is ok for me but I hate wasting a skill slot on it. Penetration is like 3.5-4k(?) which is just what I get from CP. So maybe some polishing is necessary but I can say I think there is definitely hope for this playstyle. Thank you for making this thread. Magblade has always been my favorite class and I have been killing myself to find a way to make this work outside of assassins will.

I always want to try snb magblade. I dropped heavy armor when the wrath changes came, like so many others. I've ended up going a different route though with an ice staff build. TK looks awesome to use, I want to try it but I'm a vamp atm and would need it cured (because vamp passives reduce the proc also? Correct me if I'm wrong) I think it could work well with my setup running winterborn.

Thats a good question. I am vamp mainly for the recovery and undeath. Tbh I have a hard time telling how well TK is working for me and since my damage is considerably lower, something like skoria to pack more punch might be more useful. I would love to make a frost knight build out of this. I will probably stick with heavy unless I can find the same mitigation in light (which I doubt), but I am a sucker for RP builds. I chose SnB for the utlity of running two sets and the extra stats, but an ice staff build would def have me interested.

Ice staff build is fun, I'm still tweaking and testing mine atm. Right now I'm using 5 winterbon armor, 2 skoria, 3 necro jewelry, and my asylum ice staff. It's odd not getting the heals from swallow soul and my sustain isn't as good with crushing shock. I've ended up slotting ele drain and swapping to leeching strikes.

Datthaw

While we are theory crafting, has anyone run a twice born star build? They buffed the mundus stones right? Maybe like a twice born star with a defensive set like trans with some regen and get spell and crit or max mag mundus.

Thoughts? Ideas? Experience?

Vapirko

Datthaw wrote: »

While we are theory crafting, has anyone run a twice born star build? They buffed the mundus stones right? Maybe like a twice born star with a defensive set like trans with some regen and get spell and crit or max mag mundus.

Thoughts? Ideas? Experience?

From what I’ve heard tbs just doesn’t perform well enough without running divines and even then it’s not quite worth it

kaithuzar

Yea, I ran tbs with I think impreg or whatever set gives the crit resistance so I could run all divines on tbs, you can make it work but all stats seemed slightly lower except you had a lot of tankiness with the crit resist, however I guess it may be better with transmutation?

Dreth

After getting more playtime with my heavy SnB NB, he is struggling a little. The survivability is great but I am having a pretty hard time putting out enough pressure. Really my only offensive capability is coming from cripple, concealed weapon, incap, and refreshing path. Cripple ticks away for around 800-1200 on most targets, and my concealed is hitting for around 4k. Refreshing path is so damn situational, which is why i hate that skill, so I cant really rely on it. I can take down a scrub ok by just keeping them locked down/confused with cc, but a good player I just cant beat their mitigation. Considering adding a damage set but with just one dot ticking and ani canceling concealed weapon, I'm not sure that will ever be enough to wear anyone down into incap/execute combo range. I think skoria might help set up a combo and ditch TK since Im rocking heavy already. Keep war maiden obviously but maybe move to clever alch or julianos for my heavy set. Thoughts?

Subversus

Xvorg wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I was thinking 2h backbar actually, that's why no access to ward (or spot heal I know of... That maleficent move worries me)

I am thinking no ward (only hots + TK) could work, it would just mean a higher health disengagement level, also would make 1vX a bit harder to get out of... Just would have to get better...

You ever try resto as your attack bar and 2hand as the back bar for burst and mobility. It plays really smooth. Are you using troll king for your heavy armor build since you aren't using a resto staff?

I have not tried that. The damage would suffer.. by at minimum 10% (though you could sub mark over drain) but lose penetration and DMG buff Passives. I would rather try to do 2h resto with 2h burst, the play sounds interesting...

Resto bar would look like... Swallow, healing, cripple, mark, and entropy prob 2h looking like... FM, Merc, refreshing, impale and cloak.

Hit Merc swap, set up Burt via heavies, cripple and swallow + be immortal lol with all them hots and resto

Swap to 2H when ult is ready and burst -could potentially roll lotus (does it stun from invis or is that only the Stam version?) And run berserker to hit through resistance...?

I'm outside smoking and it's really @#$&in cold can't think too much

What about using pelinal's? I've been considering that option from a while in a 2H and destro option.

Of course, you need to build towards WD and pelinals must be 5 LA to retain certain penetration. A 4 pieces DKS or even Morag Tong could help. Even that crap of Ice Furnace seems a decent option in 4 pieces.

And you get a monster available

Amberplasm is better than pelinals if you are a mag build imo, far better.

Amberplasm doesn't synergizes with FM's major brut

Think about it.

*** me I read pelinal's and thought of willow's path... My bad hahaha yeah I have no *** clue about pelinal's.

Dreth

Nvm misread.

Datthaw

Dreth wrote: »

After getting more playtime with my heavy SnB NB, he is struggling a little. The survivability is great but I am having a pretty hard time putting out enough pressure. Really my only offensive capability is coming from cripple, concealed weapon, incap, and refreshing path. Cripple ticks away for around 800-1200 on most targets, and my concealed is hitting for around 4k. Refreshing path is so damn situational, which is why i hate that skill, so I cant really rely on it. I can take down a scrub ok by just keeping them locked down/confused with cc, but a good player I just cant beat their mitigation. Considering adding a damage set but with just one dot ticking and ani canceling concealed weapon, I'm not sure that will ever be enough to wear anyone down into incap/execute combo range. I think skoria might help set up a combo and ditch TK since Im rocking heavy already. Keep war maiden obviously but maybe move to clever alch or julianos for my heavy set. Thoughts?

Skoria procs very will with just cripple and degeneration. Adds a good bit of pressure. Do you run mark target at all? I'm not a big fam because I'm destro resto and use ele drain, but it might help you deal more damage

Dreth

Datthaw wrote: »

Dreth wrote: »

After getting more playtime with my heavy SnB NB, he is struggling a little. The survivability is great but I am having a pretty hard time putting out enough pressure. Really my only offensive capability is coming from cripple, concealed weapon, incap, and refreshing path. Cripple ticks away for around 800-1200 on most targets, and my concealed is hitting for around 4k. Refreshing path is so damn situational, which is why i hate that skill, so I cant really rely on it. I can take down a scrub ok by just keeping them locked down/confused with cc, but a good player I just cant beat their mitigation. Considering adding a damage set but with just one dot ticking and ani canceling concealed weapon, I'm not sure that will ever be enough to wear anyone down into incap/execute combo range. I think skoria might help set up a combo and ditch TK since Im rocking heavy already. Keep war maiden obviously but maybe move to clever alch or julianos for my heavy set. Thoughts?

Skoria procs very will with just cripple and degeneration. Adds a good bit of pressure. Do you run mark target at all? I'm not a big fam because I'm destro resto and use ele drain, but it might help you deal more damage

Thought about mark. I am really running into some tough choices for skills. My bars are really full with this setup so mark got passed up. I might slot it instead of magelight though and run spell power pots.

kaithuzar

IMO you gotta go light man, the passives are just totally worth, you'll put a lot more pressure upping your pen from the 3-6k it's at now to 10-12k
If you really don't wanna do light then do spinners weapon & jewelry

Dreth

Yeah light would of course solve all my problems, but it sort of defeats the purpose of my build. LA melee magblade has never worked well for me bc as a nightblade I get targeted first, I am squishy as hell, and I get blown up instantly. My hopes were that I could be more of a front line brawler/sapper and possibly negate cloak from my build all together. My play style is extremely aggressive, so I normally build defensive so I can go all out and let my build do the work keeping my alive. The way I'm set up now I just don't have that burst without assassin's will, and incap can't carry that burden alone. Maybe skoria will fix that. Spinners and heavy julianos still sounds tempting if I can manage my Magicka because the spell power will buff my heals as well as my damage.

Dreth

On paper it doesnt look that bad.

WacArnold

Kram8ion wrote: »

Oh my, rattlecage
I'm trying this set out on my magblade today and finding it underwhelming although it did double my weapon dmg
Or maybe a lot of weapon damage isn't all it's cracked up to be thoughts?

I use to like rattle because it opened up a new skill slot and you could use arcane jewely, just as you said i found it lacking. Used it alot more during the heavy armor meta.

WacArnold

kaithuzar wrote: »

What I've been wondering about lately is ele drain vs mark target/piercing mark?

Is ele drain really a viable source of resources as people are claiming?
Mark target would eliminate the need for detect pots, maybe?

Right now I'm not running either but I feel the extra penetration is hard to pass up

Ele drain is great for a couple of reasons 1 you get resource back and it does help. Also, when its on your bar you get the inncreased damage from the destro passives, which depending on your build or playstyle it may allow for different setups.
Mark is what i use. I chose this because i have high recovery and like destructive reach over mass hysteria for my playstyle. Also and probably the biggest is when fighting other nbs its hard to setup my merciless when they are constantly in stealth so i mark them and it makes things go alot smoother. Plus mark can be placed on any bar!

rteezy

Thank you for participating so far, pretty awsome for a new player and our lord @KenaPKK church apostole to get this much info!!

recently i have been debating between the advantages of 2w melee vs destro main bar. completely different playstyles, and melee will always be less forgiving i guess. Damage wise, and i might be wrong, but destor seems to pull the higher burst?
I also love the feel of melee playstyle but, any bit of lag will ruin that very fast.


I always play with mark or ele drain, btu i find it hard to drop spinners, should i? (with mark/ele, pen si goign up to 16k).

I also was getting HIT(not crit) by 5k swallow souls today, mine are ususalya round 3,8k.The guy, unless he trolled me, wasnt even wearing spinenrs or any damage set, it was like shak and kragenak or something..i dont get it!

Six0

Using 2h for FM maybe I'll think otherwise if shade is ever fixed, at least with shade I can move away then cloak and wait out the snare but at the moment I don't feel like cloak is even worth using unless you have snare removal with an immunity window.

seanj87

Recently I've been running...

2 x Troll King
5 x Torugs pact
4/5 x Spinners

Inferno Staff front bar
Dual Wield back

Datthaw

Anyone here running a 2h/resto build? Was messing with it the other night and just felt conflicted.

The way I tried to play it is like sustain bar and burst bar. Weave swallow cripple degeneration and siphon while keeping up shield till mercy procs the. Lotus to incap and mercy for the burst and a la conceal strike for the follow up.

what I found though is alot of times I end up fighting meele weaving concealed till mercy procs because the damage is more. The heals from swallow seemed more on resto which is nice.

Maybe I just need to find a few good 1v1s to see how this build really works Idk just felt off, but it was 1st run so maybe it will feel more natural. But my initial impression was, is forward momentum really worth it over dw and an extra set passive.

rteezy

Ok, i think shacklebreaker/spinners/1 domi really isnt the bets option for magblade (and my regen sucks ass)


i was thinking:

valkyn/warmaiden/lich

valkyn/wizards repost/lich

wizards repost/warmaiden/1 domi (?! woudl this work?)

Valkyn/warmaiden/amberplasm (amber back bar?)

(all thsi for destro/resto)

What you guys think?

Subversus

Datthaw wrote: »

Anyone here running a 2h/resto build? Was messing with it the other night and just felt conflicted.

The way I tried to play it is like sustain bar and burst bar. Weave swallow cripple degeneration and siphon while keeping up shield till mercy procs the. Lotus to incap and mercy for the burst and a la conceal strike for the follow up.

what I found though is alot of times I end up fighting meele weaving concealed till mercy procs because the damage is more. The heals from swallow seemed more on resto which is nice.

Maybe I just need to find a few good 1v1s to see how this build really works Idk just felt off, but it was 1st run so maybe it will feel more natural. But my initial impression was, is forward momentum really worth it over dw and an extra set passive.

They way I'd start playing magblade with a 2h/resto is lich/war maiden/grothdarr-TK-BS with an argonian for stam sustain (thanks to immov tripots LUL #balanced), or amber/riposte/1domihaus for non fotm argonians, then improve from there based on what is lacking in conjunction with your playstyle.

If shade was working dw would also be viable imo with smth like amber/necro/grothdarr.

Lord-Otto

Rtee, never Wizard's Riposte on magblade! You already get Minor Maim from Shade and Fear!

zParallaxz

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Rtee, never Wizard's Riposte on magblade! You already get Minor Maim from Shade and Fear!

That’s what I’m saying bro, I see a large portion of wizards riposte on magblades and it looks so stupid.

zParallaxz

seanj87 wrote: »

Recently I've been running...

2 x Troll King
5 x Prisoners
4/5 x Spinners

Inferno Staff front bar
Dual Wield back

Prisoners offers great resource management buffs, I can sprint for days and can CC break more frequently.

Please just stop