A compromise in the crate gambling debate

Slick_007

Jade1986 wrote: »

I find it hilarious how on one hand you dismiss the MAJORITY of eso players ( it is well known that NO ONE wanted crown crates ) , saying " oh they are just cosmetic, ", not grasping the danger this corporate greed presents to gaming now days. And then on the other hand you say we are endangering your gameplay by standing up against this predatory practice.

Well what is it? Are they cosmetic ? Or important to gameplay? Hmmmmm?

i find it hilarious how people pull statements out their butt and claim they are facts. "it is well known that no one wanted crown crates" huh. maybe it is well known to those people who have no idea what a fact is. the truth is however, you are wrong.

i dislike when politicians claim i want or dont want something, but when some random stranger on the internet claims to speak for me, its worse.

MercyKilling

No compromise.
No crates, ever.

Slick_007

MercyKilling wrote: »

No compromise.
No crates, ever.

no compromise. crates stay.

instead of people who cant control themselves removing themselves from temptation, they instead want to force their lack of will upon others so that nobody can enjoy the fruits of these crates instead.

i get that gambling is a problem for some people. but dont goto the 'casino' and stop everyone else from enjoying it.
i also dont want others 'morals' imposed upon me. i dont need random internet strangers to enforce whether or not i can 'gamble'. i dont have a problem, and i dont need or want your intervention. i think i bought a pack of crates in like season 1 and thats it. but hey, i like having the option.

Epona222

I'm not into the crate thing at all, there are a few adjustments that would make it acceptable to me though, and may cause me to spend crowns on them:

-Higher gem conversion rate for duplicate collectibles
-Everything available to purchase for gems, no hidden items
-A system whereby you could buy crates with a more targeted tier of rewards? Maybe with a tiered pricing system too. Haven't fully thought this one through, but I know in this season there is 1 item I want - and it is not an apex item, if I were to buy crates and get all of the apex items but not the lower tiered item I want, that would be considered lucky by many, but I'd still be disappointed, because I don't want a flaming atro mount.
-Remove the food/drink/potions/poisons - no-one I know wants those. In that sense, it would be better to have crates priced a bit higher but with say 2 collectibles/unique furnishings, rather than a load of rubbish that no-one ever uses. The only thing they are good for is gem conversion, but the conversion rate is shoddy

Or just let us buy the things we want direct from the crown store - I'd have spent more over the last year if some of those items had been available for direct purchase! I'm not into spending money on things where I am not sure what I will end up with.

mirta000b16_ESO

Slick_007 wrote: »

i find it hilarious how people pull statements out their butt and claim they are facts. "it is well known that no one wanted crown crates" huh. maybe it is well known to those people who have no idea what a fact is. the truth is however, you are wrong.

i dislike when politicians claim i want or dont want something, but when some random stranger on the internet claims to speak for me, its worse.

Wait... So instead of being able to buy an item directly, you wanted to pay, to gamble for it in a pool of good 100 items? You wanted items that even if you spend 2000$ you may still not get as you can not get them by any other way rather than just chance? You wanted to pay an average of 200$ for extra rare mounts, rather than the regular 40$ or less?

...What?

LadyAstrum

Can people at least get the correct gems back when they sell an item? Getting 1 or 2 gems for something that costs 10 gems to buy, for example, is scrooge-like.

Jade1986

Balamoor wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Personally I don't see the big deal either way, I'm perfectly fine the way things are...I do find it odd the stages that are being displayed anger denial bargaining......it's just cosmetic pixels no big deal, Iv'e seem people spend a lot more on a lot more frivolous things.

I think the more sinister part of all this is how a very small group of people have divided the community and actually affected other people game play because they aren't getting their way.

I find it hilarious how on one hand you dismiss the MAJORITY of eso players ( it is well known that NO ONE wanted crown crates ) , saying " oh they are just cosmetic, ", not grasping the danger this corporate greed presents to gaming now days. And then on the other hand you say we are endangering your gameplay by standing up against this predatory practice.

Well what is it? Are they cosmetic ? Or important to gameplay? Hmmmmm?

They are cosmetic they do nothing to make you progress in the game and for no one wanting them a metric crap ton of people are spending Scrooge McDuck amounts of money on them, I just spent more on the last season than all the other seasons combined as have many of my friends...and I'll probably buy more before it's over....so much for no one wanting them.

Standing up is a bit of a understatement to what the anti crate crowd is doing....and folks like you either downplay the harassment and bullying that happens consistently or flat out deny it, and so far ZoS has chosen to turn a blind eye to it....I wonder though just how long that will last though.


Personally I think you are getting way to worked up over pixels and how other people spend their money.

You continue to ignore the fact that you would have more choices if the items were available for direct purchase. But I have come to expect that...

Have played this game since day 0, I have never - EVER - gotten harassed for having apex items ( got some from free crates ) and I almost always wear costumes / makeup / tattoos / whatever. Never once. So excuse me if I have a hard time believing you.

Jade1986

Slick_007 wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

I find it hilarious how on one hand you dismiss the MAJORITY of eso players ( it is well known that NO ONE wanted crown crates ) , saying " oh they are just cosmetic, ", not grasping the danger this corporate greed presents to gaming now days. And then on the other hand you say we are endangering your gameplay by standing up against this predatory practice.

Well what is it? Are they cosmetic ? Or important to gameplay? Hmmmmm?

i find it hilarious how people pull statements out their butt and claim they are facts. "it is well known that no one wanted crown crates" huh. maybe it is well known to those people who have no idea what a fact is. the truth is however, you are wrong.

i dislike when politicians claim i want or dont want something, but when some random stranger on the internet claims to speak for me, its worse.

Across all social media there was outcry about this, in zone people were fuming, in guilds people were quite displeased. Just accept that you are in the minority. This isnt some random fact, you can do the research, if you dont want to, that is your problem.

Jade1986

Slick_007 wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

No compromise.
No crates, ever.

no compromise. crates stay.

instead of people who cant control themselves removing themselves from temptation, they instead want to force their lack of will upon others so that nobody can enjoy the fruits of these crates instead.

i get that gambling is a problem for some people. but dont goto the 'casino' and stop everyone else from enjoying it.
i also dont want others 'morals' imposed upon me. i dont need random internet strangers to enforce whether or not i can 'gamble'. i dont have a problem, and i dont need or want your intervention. i think i bought a pack of crates in like season 1 and thats it. but hey, i like having the option.

You have more options if they are available for direct purchase. My god, the freemium generation....

Jade1986

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

i find it hilarious how people pull statements out their butt and claim they are facts. "it is well known that no one wanted crown crates" huh. maybe it is well known to those people who have no idea what a fact is. the truth is however, you are wrong.

i dislike when politicians claim i want or dont want something, but when some random stranger on the internet claims to speak for me, its worse.

Wait... So instead of being able to buy an item directly, you wanted to pay, to gamble for it in a pool of good 100 items? You wanted items that even if you spend 2000$ you may still not get as you can not get them by any other way rather than just chance? You wanted to pay an average of 200$ for extra rare mounts, rather than the regular 40$ or less?

...What?

There is no logic behind it. Their excuses can be refuted with simple logic at every turn. At this point it feels like they work for them.

Slick_007

Jade1986 wrote: »

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

i find it hilarious how people pull statements out their butt and claim they are facts. "it is well known that no one wanted crown crates" huh. maybe it is well known to those people who have no idea what a fact is. the truth is however, you are wrong.

i dislike when politicians claim i want or dont want something, but when some random stranger on the internet claims to speak for me, its worse.

Wait... So instead of being able to buy an item directly, you wanted to pay, to gamble for it in a pool of good 100 items? You wanted items that even if you spend 2000$ you may still not get as you can not get them by any other way rather than just chance? You wanted to pay an average of 200$ for extra rare mounts, rather than the regular 40$ or less?

...What?

There is no logic behind it. Their excuses can be refuted with simple logic at every turn. At this point it feels like they work for them.

is everything you've said so far wrong? it very well could be. id have to double check all your posts but so far it looks like it is.

you called me the freemium generation. im paying for eso+. how am i freemium gen? im paying money for something i dont need to already and have been for quite some time. i played swtor - also free to play. subbed there too. this freemium accusation is another made up lie by you.

you said NO ONE wanted them. now you're telling me that wasnt true. well, i already knew that because well, you said it so it couldnt be true. you said im in the minority. so there are others who dont really mind that they exist.

if i want a mount, i buy a mount. If i want a surprise, i buy a crate. i bet all you people in here are great fun at christmas and birthdays. 'surprise! %&^%*& you!'

Sometimes people like getting randomness. a surprise. something unexpected. i want 'something', not sure what. buy a crate. be spontaneous.

i do not say to myself, i want a mount why dont i buy a crate. that would be stupid. hands up those of you who do that. dont be shy.

How about instead of you making up stuff to try and win a debate, you stick to facts. simple logic? you wouldnt know logic if it hit you in the face. and at least its not simple lies which is what you resort to.

Waseem

Fun fact: if the crates failed to sell astonishingly we would be having a big crown store now and i would have bought the pets i always wanted

Shooooo crown crates buyers!! U prevented me from buying the vanity pets i wanted because im a student with just food budget (psst.. I would buy a couple pets for 700 crowns each still!)

Elsonso

Jade1986 wrote: »

Have played this game since day 0, I have never - EVER - gotten harassed for having apex items ( got some from free crates ) and I almost always wear costumes / makeup / tattoos / whatever. Never once. So excuse me if I have a hard time believing you.

The fact of the matter is that most players in the game don't know what you are wearing and where it came from. There are just too many costumes, hair, makeup, and that sort of thing to keep track of. Most of them were probably not obtained through Crown Crates. (That will change over time)

They might know, or guess correctly, about a pet, but I would not count on it.

I am sure that Crate mounts, being more flashy than the typical mount, would draw more correct impressions. However, some of the mounts were available in the Crown Store before they invented Crown Crates.

I have never taken off after anyone in the game for wearing Crown Store stuff, including Crown Crate stuff. I really don't care that people buy them. I buy Crown Store stuff. I don't buy, or even open, Crown Crates. See signature.

Yes, I wish people would stop buying them. I do think they are bad for the game. I believe that the added attention on Crown Crates by the studio is a distraction that does not help the game. I think that only part of the revenue coming from ESO related sales goes back into ESO. I believe that more of the cosmetics should be available for direct purchase for Crowns, or made available directly in the game. Cosmetics are not a trivial extra in an MMORPG, like they are in other types of game, so I do think that the way they are handling them is despicable. I think all of the negative things in this paragraph will get worse over time.

On the other hand, I fear what might happen if people stop buying them. When backed into a corner, wild animals become unpredictable. Businesses often imitate this. If people stop buying Crown Crates, it might spur them into coming up with a better idea to generates revenue, one that is less of an exploit. What is more likely to happen is that they will do something far worse in an attempt to Save The Crates.

mirta000b16_ESO

Slick_007 wrote: »

if i want a mount, i buy a mount. If i want a surprise, i buy a crate. i bet all you people in here are great fun at christmas and birthdays. 'surprise! %&^%*& you!'

Do you pay for your Christmas gifts? Do you go into the store and give them 20$ up front and wait to see what you got for it?

"Oh you sir just got a 5$ barbie doll, if you wanted that juicy steak, or that drill over there, try again! Only 20$ per try!"

We're actively denied choice on the crown store, just because you seem to like throwing money at people in order to give you anything from a selection of very differently priced items.

Hokiewa

Jade1986 wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

I find it hilarious how on one hand you dismiss the MAJORITY of eso players ( it is well known that NO ONE wanted crown crates ) , saying " oh they are just cosmetic, ", not grasping the danger this corporate greed presents to gaming now days. And then on the other hand you say we are endangering your gameplay by standing up against this predatory practice.

Well what is it? Are they cosmetic ? Or important to gameplay? Hmmmmm?

i find it hilarious how people pull statements out their butt and claim they are facts. "it is well known that no one wanted crown crates" huh. maybe it is well known to those people who have no idea what a fact is. the truth is however, you are wrong.

i dislike when politicians claim i want or dont want something, but when some random stranger on the internet claims to speak for me, its worse.

Across all social media there was outcry about this, in zone people were fuming, in guilds people were quite displeased. Just accept that you are in the minority. This isnt some random fact, you can do the research, if you dont want to, that is your problem.

If you make the assertion, you provide the research. The onus is on you. Prove a majority which you can't. Just like I can't prove a majority like the crates. It is not fact, it is your opinion and nothing more. Though rational, logical thought would indicate they are popular considering ZOS keeps adding additional items to them.

You take this way too personally and as such, resort to calling opinion facts. You've stated numerous factual inaccuracies throughout multiple threads and you've never acknowledged that you are in fact simply wrong.

Then you've the paranoia stage, accusing someone who happens to disagree with you that they are working for ZOS solely based upon their disagreement. You do understand that's not logical or stable right?

witchdoctor

Jade1986 wrote: »

You have more options if they are available for direct purchase.

Another assumption?

Maybe this would be the result; maybe not.

Elsonso

Hokiewa wrote: »

If you make the assertion, you provide the research. The onus is on you. Prove a majority which you can't. Just like I can't prove a majority like the crates. It is not fact, it is your opinion and nothing more. Though rational, logical thought would indicate they are popular considering ZOS keeps adding additional items to them.

Rational, logical thought would indicate that they may be waning in popularity, or not meeting expectations, considering that ZOS has to keep adding additional items to them to make them more attractive.

Just like Balamoor can't substantiate the claim that the Crates haters are in the minority, and Jade1986 cannot do the opposite, none of us really knows how popular Crown Crates are and what the numbers look like. We don't know the percentage of players that buy them on more than an occasional basis. We don't know how that compares to the rest of the Crown Store, and ESO Plus. We don't know if the numbers are trending up, trending down, or are annoyingly stuck.

We will probably never know this. Maybe, eventually, they will release some "number of mudcrabs killed" metric from Crown Crates. Like... number of Apex mounts won, or total number of potions handed out. Whatever will make Crown Crates sound cool and popular. Otherwise, we will hear nothing.

mirta000b16_ESO

witchdoctor wrote: »

Another assumption?

Maybe this would be the result; maybe not.

So you think that they would forgo the profit that they get out of people buying crown crates for old stuff and just throw the old stuff out instead of "OMG LIMITED TIME ONLY GET GET GET!" rotation, that normally happens in a lot of MMOs?

Hokiewa wrote: »

Though rational, logical thought would indicate they are popular considering ZOS keeps adding additional items to them.

Crowncrates are meant for whales that can't keep their gambling addictions in check.
There are topics that make it very clear that the person complaining about the chances for getting the hidden mounts for example has spent 1000-10 000$ for that crown season alone. And they probably do this for multiple crown seasons. 99% of all population can just not buy anything and that 1% that can't control themselves would still be more profitable than selling all items direct and maybe 70% of the population buying an item here or there.

drakhan2002_ESO

ChaosWotan wrote: »

The introduction of "extremely rare" radiant mounts in the crown crates made this aspect of the game into pure gambling. Some people accept this, others hate it. A compromise is to let these radiant items be extremely rare gambling rewards if you buy less than 30 crates during one crate season, but once you have bought 30 crates in that season you will automatically get one radiant mount.

Similar thoughts have been brought up in the past. I agree. There should be a guarantee at some point. I've spent my share on those crates and have gotten some nice items...but boy...did ZOS squeeze me! Now, experience is the best teacher and I have curbed my enthusiam about those crates.

Lord_Etrigan

ChaosWotan wrote: »

@SantieClaws

The introduction of extremely rare mounts is relatively new, so it should be easy to make one of those items a reward you get automatically when buying 30 crates during one crate season.

@Easily_Lost

Your suggestion is the easiest solution. Sell Apex mounts for 10k and extremely rare radiant mounts for 15k in the regular crown store. The problem, however, is that this will make the whole CC system pretty meaningless. So, again, if ESO wants to draw in "whales" and avoid gambling accusations, it's prb best to automatically give crate buyers an extremely rare radiant mount after paying for 30 crates - or 45 crates...

With all due respect but do you know what 10-15k crown can buy you.Thats easy a new collectors edition game complete with statue and you want to pay that for a mount?

The day I spend that on a mount is the day I uninstall ESO.

mirta000b16_ESO

Lord_Etrigan wrote: »

With all due respect but do you know what 10-15k crown can buy you.Thats easy a new collectors edition game complete with statue and you want to pay that for a mount?

The day I spend that on a mount is the day I uninstall ESO.

People spend that and more on houses, so why not? The new CWC house is 15K crowns unfurnished, 18K furnished.

Elsonso

Lord_Etrigan wrote: »

With all due respect but do you know what 10-15k crown can buy you.Thats easy a new collectors edition game complete with statue and you want to pay that for a mount?

The day I spend that on a mount is the day I uninstall ESO.

That is a subject for another thread.

Balamoor

Jade1986 wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

No compromise.
No crates, ever.

no compromise. crates stay.

instead of people who cant control themselves removing themselves from temptation, they instead want to force their lack of will upon others so that nobody can enjoy the fruits of these crates instead.

i get that gambling is a problem for some people. but dont goto the 'casino' and stop everyone else from enjoying it.
i also dont want others 'morals' imposed upon me. i dont need random internet strangers to enforce whether or not i can 'gamble'. i dont have a problem, and i dont need or want your intervention. i think i bought a pack of crates in like season 1 and thats it. but hey, i like having the option.

You have more options if they are available for direct purchase. My god, the freemium generation....

"Freemium Generation" is that suppose to be insulting?

I'm probably old enough to be your dad Unless you were born during or before the Kennedy administration, you talk about assumptions and your flawless logic but all I have seen from you is a biased opinion.

I'm sorry you hate crates and feel like it's your personal mission to throw shade at anyone that doesn't have a issue with them, but the simple truth is; by this time next year they will still be here and probably the year after that.

Enjoy all the future complaining, because you got a long road of it. Now if you'll excuse me I bought a metric crap ton of crates over the weekend and haven't even began to open them all.

rhapsodious

While I'd personally prefer direct purchases of items, just reminding people that just because all you see in zone/the forums/public channels is overwhelmingly negative, doesn't reflect the opinions/financial habits of the customer base as a whole. Nobody comments about just being whelmed by crates.

ConeOfSilence

Seems like all games have jumped on the bandwagon, 2 games I have purchased in the past 2 weeks have it, Battlefront 2 and CoD WW2. Gone are the days of once you pay for the game the grind is on, now you can pay to skip the grind. Shame that the world has become so greedy even the world of games.

Raideen

Balamoor wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Personally I don't see the big deal either way, I'm perfectly fine the way things are...I do find it odd the stages that are being displayed anger denial bargaining......it's just cosmetic pixels no big deal, Iv'e seem people spend a lot more on a lot more frivolous things.

I think the more sinister part of all this is how a very small group of people have divided the community and actually affected other people game play because they aren't getting their way.

Its not a small group of people. That is where you are mistaken.

I see maybe twelve people on the forum that constantly hammer at this nonsense , and I'm pretty sure three of those are alt accounts. So...small group.

That is impossible information to know, unless you work for or know someone who works for ZOS.

The simple FACT is consumers as a whole, regardless of the industry do not like companies that employ shady tactics to get money out of the consumers wallet. We have seen this specifically with games who went to loot crates as their primary source of revenue, none of which have large player bases, none of which have strong organic growth and none of which have long term returning players and all of which who have a short life span in MMO terms.

As a general consensus, people would prefer to purchase an item up front vs gambling for it. The other fact is we can all observe how the game design changes to facilitate crowns, for example ZOS emphatically stating that they will not release any more mounts in game, you want to dress up your RP character on top of your sub? Crowns it is....except now they are moving the goal posts from simple crown purchases to loot crates.

Eyesinthedrk

I have a better compromise. How about ZOS gives us an RNG based subscription price? Thins months I pay $14.99 next month I may only have to pay $3.50?

We can do it with crowns too. $15.00 can get you anywhere from 750 crowns to 21,000.

Hokiewa

ConeOfSilence wrote: »

Seems like all games have jumped on the bandwagon, 2 games I have purchased in the past 2 weeks have it, Battlefront 2 and CoD WW2. Gone are the days of once you pay for the game the grind is on, now you can pay to skip the grind. Shame that the world has become so greedy even the world of games.

It's been like this for over a decade. Companies moved to this model because of the number of games available on different platforms skyrocketed in the mid to late 2000s. Instead of staying with one online game for years, players began cancelling subs after a few months, shifting to a new game, then repeating over and over again due to the new shiny factor of the latest offerings. Additionally, gaming companies saw the rise of Facebook/app games that simply started with the freemium model with cash purchases. Turbine was one of the first companies to recognize the profit potential and shifted DDO/LOTR from the sub model to F2P with content and cosmetic purchases. Subscription models became unsustainable for all but a few as companies were used to steady streams of monthly income from subs. To replace that steady stream, you had the introduction of cash shops then loot boxes.

Personally, the quality of game production was reduced dramatically in my opinion while the quantity has become staggering.

ChaosWotan

ESO will be the last game I spend money on to get cosmetic items, and if new DLCs continue to lack sufficient storyline content or have poor replay value, I will drop crown store/crates completely and only play ESO 4-5 weeks a year, after having accumulated four DLCs in a row. Have already changed to other rpg games.

Balamoor

Raideen wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Personally I don't see the big deal either way, I'm perfectly fine the way things are...I do find it odd the stages that are being displayed anger denial bargaining......it's just cosmetic pixels no big deal, Iv'e seem people spend a lot more on a lot more frivolous things.

I think the more sinister part of all this is how a very small group of people have divided the community and actually affected other people game play because they aren't getting their way.

Its not a small group of people. That is where you are mistaken.

I see maybe twelve people on the forum that constantly hammer at this nonsense , and I'm pretty sure three of those are alt accounts. So...small group.

That is impossible information to know, unless you work for or know someone who works for ZOS.

Have you guys ever noticed that anyone that disagrees with the Anti Crate crowd automatically works for ZoS? That kind of paranoid hysteria really does little to further the debate and is basically a credibility killer.

You can have an opinion without working for ZoS.

Now to answer your question. I haven't now or or at no time have been in the employment of Bethesda, Zenimax studios or any of their subsidies, the closest I have ever gotten to that company was a interview in 2009 at ID software and I took a consulting offer from Vigil Games instead.

Now that's out of the way, can we possibly continue the discussion without being called a whale, the Freemium generation or a ZoS employee??

The vitrol that is spewed against anyone that dare challenge the PAWS group is really telling....but no @Jade1986 all that in game harassment talk is just fabrication. lol