A compromise in the crate gambling debate

ChaosWotan

@Balamoor

Don't think you work for ZOS, since it's obvious that you work for the AIC.

JKorr

Balamoor wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Personally I don't see the big deal either way, I'm perfectly fine the way things are...I do find it odd the stages that are being displayed anger denial bargaining......it's just cosmetic pixels no big deal, Iv'e seem people spend a lot more on a lot more frivolous things.

I think the more sinister part of all this is how a very small group of people have divided the community and actually affected other people game play because they aren't getting their way.

Its not a small group of people. That is where you are mistaken.

I see maybe twelve people on the forum that constantly hammer at this nonsense , and I'm pretty sure three of those are alt accounts. So...small group.

Yes, yes, small group. I'm sure every post that disliked the crates on the pts were alt accounts. Balamoor has spoken, let the world be corrected according to his view.

Sorry, oh all-knowing one, since you'd have to be that to know for sure there is only a small group with dozens of alt accounts who dislike the crates. I have one account here. I have two accounts to play the game, because I'm an altaholic and make more than a few characters, but I only post here on one account, the one I had in beta, the one I had during early release, the only one I've ever posted on the forums with.

What some of the people who dislike the crates would like to see is more items offered for outright sale in the crown store.

You, Balamoor the all-knowing might be perfectly satisfied spending money without knowing you will actually receive the item you want, and needing to spend more money to attempt to get the item you actually want, perhaps many times over, possibly never receiving the item at all, no matter how much money you spend. Yes, it is all cosmetics. Yes, none of it is pay to win. That doesn't change the fact that some players want a specific cosmetic item, and would prefer to pay for that item, and not a chance to maybe eventually possibly get that one item. It would be up to the player to decide if the price set by ZOS was one they were willing to pay.

I would like to get the senche leopard cub pet. I have the senche leopard mount; didn't have the crowns at the time to get the matching cub. I'm willing to pay for the senche leopard pet; willing to pay a set, fixed price for it. I am NOT willing to spend an uncertain amount for a rng chance at perhaps getting it, while acquiring a crapton of items I did not want and was not willing to pay for. The mage's guild cat would have been a purchase as well, if it had been offered for outright sale.

I'm sure that the marketing person who won't be named would like more people to be like you, Balamoor, willing to spend hundreds of dollars for the chance of getting one item you want. Unfortunately for that marketing person, I'm not willing to do that, so ZOS is actually getting less money from me than they would if they'd offer more items, the not-themed non-apex items for outright sale in the crown store. They could still offer the themed items for the people who are willing to spend time sacrificing to the rng gremlins, or who would be pleased with any of the apex rewards. They'd have the income from people who don't mind the gamble, AND the income from people who want to outright buy a specific item.

Balamoor

JKorr wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Personally I don't see the big deal either way, I'm perfectly fine the way things are...I do find it odd the stages that are being displayed anger denial bargaining......it's just cosmetic pixels no big deal, Iv'e seem people spend a lot more on a lot more frivolous things.

I think the more sinister part of all this is how a very small group of people have divided the community and actually affected other people game play because they aren't getting their way.

Its not a small group of people. That is where you are mistaken.

I see maybe twelve people on the forum that constantly hammer at this nonsense , and I'm pretty sure three of those are alt accounts. So...small group.

Yes, yes, small group. I'm sure every post that disliked the crates on the pts were alt accounts. Balamoor has spoken, let the world be corrected according to his view.

Sorry, oh all-knowing one, since you'd have to be that to know for sure there is only a small group with dozens of alt accounts who dislike the crates. I have one account here. I have two accounts to play the game, because I'm an altaholic and make more than a few characters, but I only post here on one account, the one I had in beta, the one I had during early release, the only one I've ever posted on the forums with.

What some of the people who dislike the crates would like to see is more items offered for outright sale in the crown store.

You, Balamoor the all-knowing might be perfectly satisfied spending money without knowing you will actually receive the item you want, and needing to spend more money to attempt to get the item you actually want, perhaps many times over, possibly never receiving the item at all, no matter how much money you spend. Yes, it is all cosmetics. Yes, none of it is pay to win. That doesn't change the fact that some players want a specific cosmetic item, and would prefer to pay for that item, and not a chance to maybe eventually possibly get that one item. It would be up to the player to decide if the price set by ZOS was one they were willing to pay.

I would like to get the senche leopard cub pet. I have the senche leopard mount; didn't have the crowns at the time to get the matching cub. I'm willing to pay for the senche leopard pet; willing to pay a set, fixed price for it. I am NOT willing to spend an uncertain amount for a rng chance at perhaps getting it, while acquiring a crapton of items I did not want and was not willing to pay for. The mage's guild cat would have been a purchase as well, if it had been offered for outright sale.

I'm sure that the marketing person who won't be named would like more people to be like you, Balamoor, willing to spend hundreds of dollars for the chance of getting one item you want. Unfortunately for that marketing person, I'm not willing to do that, so ZOS is actually getting less money from me than they would if they'd offer more items, the not-themed non-apex items for outright sale in the crown store. They could still offer the themed items for the people who are willing to spend time sacrificing to the rng gremlins, or who would be pleased with any of the apex rewards. They'd have the income from people who don't mind the gamble, AND the income from people who want to outright buy a specific item.

So....you not getting a kitty skin is worth six paragraphs of sarcasm and rage?

Oh and you have Balamoor confused with my other Character faddyduff the all knowing.

ChaosWotan

Yay, I just got 400 agrees!

Now I need two more to get hundred awesomes, and only four more to get 100 insightful. Man, it takes time to farm and level up my character in this forum.

When can I buy agrees, awesomes and insightfuls in the crown store? Or will that be put in the crown crates as well?

Raideen

Balamoor wrote: »

Have you guys ever noticed that anyone that disagrees with the Anti Crate crowd automatically works for ZoS? That kind of paranoid hysteria really does little to further the debate and is basically a credibility killer.

You can have an opinion without working for ZoS.

Now to answer your question. I haven't now or or at no time have been in the employment of Bethesda, Zenimax studios or any of their subsidies, the closest I have ever gotten to that company was a interview in 2009 at ID software and I took a consulting offer from Vigil Games instead.

Reading comprehension. I did not say you worked for ZOS. What I said is that you can not possibly posses the information you asserted as fact without working for ZOS, my statement is still true.

Now that's out of the way, can we possibly continue the discussion without being called a whale, the Freemium generation or a ZoS employee??

I never once said, or alluded to any accusation you just listed there. I don't even know what a whale is, never heard the world "Freemium" before (although the Smashing Pumpkins had a song called "Feelium") and I already explained to you that I never asserted that you worked for ZOS.

The vitrol that is spewed against anyone that dare challenge the PAWS group is really telling....but no @Jade1986 all that in game harassment talk is just fabrication. lol

I find it interesting how defensive you and a couple other people here get when "working for ZOS" is mentioned. If you in fact have no relationship to them, why do you get so defensive? Why do you insist on tearing others down who disagree with you (for good reason)?

The only vitriol being spewed here comes from you and your constant passive aggressive attitude towards those you disagree with.

Facts are facts and the facts are not on your side.

ChaosWotan

Fact is that I need two more awesomes to have 100 awesomes.

Can someone help a brother out?

ChaosWotan

Well, it wasn't a fact after all, because I already got 100 awesomes. Darn. Facts are so subjective indeed...

JKorr

Balamoor wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Personally I don't see the big deal either way, I'm perfectly fine the way things are...I do find it odd the stages that are being displayed anger denial bargaining......it's just cosmetic pixels no big deal, Iv'e seem people spend a lot more on a lot more frivolous things.

I think the more sinister part of all this is how a very small group of people have divided the community and actually affected other people game play because they aren't getting their way.

Its not a small group of people. That is where you are mistaken.

I see maybe twelve people on the forum that constantly hammer at this nonsense , and I'm pretty sure three of those are alt accounts. So...small group.

Yes, yes, small group. I'm sure every post that disliked the crates on the pts were alt accounts. Balamoor has spoken, let the world be corrected according to his view.

Sorry, oh all-knowing one, since you'd have to be that to know for sure there is only a small group with dozens of alt accounts who dislike the crates. I have one account here. I have two accounts to play the game, because I'm an altaholic and make more than a few characters, but I only post here on one account, the one I had in beta, the one I had during early release, the only one I've ever posted on the forums with.

What some of the people who dislike the crates would like to see is more items offered for outright sale in the crown store.

You, Balamoor the all-knowing might be perfectly satisfied spending money without knowing you will actually receive the item you want, and needing to spend more money to attempt to get the item you actually want, perhaps many times over, possibly never receiving the item at all, no matter how much money you spend. Yes, it is all cosmetics. Yes, none of it is pay to win. That doesn't change the fact that some players want a specific cosmetic item, and would prefer to pay for that item, and not a chance to maybe eventually possibly get that one item. It would be up to the player to decide if the price set by ZOS was one they were willing to pay.

I would like to get the senche leopard cub pet. I have the senche leopard mount; didn't have the crowns at the time to get the matching cub. I'm willing to pay for the senche leopard pet; willing to pay a set, fixed price for it. I am NOT willing to spend an uncertain amount for a rng chance at perhaps getting it, while acquiring a crapton of items I did not want and was not willing to pay for. The mage's guild cat would have been a purchase as well, if it had been offered for outright sale.

I'm sure that the marketing person who won't be named would like more people to be like you, Balamoor, willing to spend hundreds of dollars for the chance of getting one item you want. Unfortunately for that marketing person, I'm not willing to do that, so ZOS is actually getting less money from me than they would if they'd offer more items, the not-themed non-apex items for outright sale in the crown store. They could still offer the themed items for the people who are willing to spend time sacrificing to the rng gremlins, or who would be pleased with any of the apex rewards. They'd have the income from people who don't mind the gamble, AND the income from people who want to outright buy a specific item.

So....you not getting a kitty skin is worth six paragraphs of sarcasm and rage?

Oh and you have Balamoor confused with my other Character faddyduff the all knowing.

snip

The fact that people do disagree with you is worth finding, reading, and posting in multiple threads that you'll personally buy another bundle of crates every time you see someone post they won't buy crates? And accuse the posters who disagree with you of having alt accounts? I mean, you are claiming to know there are a "small number" of people who don't like the crates, and they all use alt accounts. Without working for ZOS and having access to ip addresses, or hacking the forum, you'd have to be omniscient to have that hard evidence about alt accounts that you keep posting. :shrug:

rhapsodious

Raideen wrote: »

Now that's out of the way, can we possibly continue the discussion without being called a whale, the Freemium generation or a ZoS employee??

I never once said, or alluded to any accusation you just listed there. I don't even know what a whale is, never heard the world "Freemium" before (although the Smashing Pumpkins had a song called "Feelium") and I already explained to you that I never asserted that you worked for ZOS.

A whale is someone who spends disproportionate amounts of money compared to the average consumer, much like how whales are disproportionately large in the sea. You'll see other fishy terms (minnow, dolphin) that roughly correspond to how much money they spend. Whales are the 1% that account for 50% of the revenue, basically. (And yes I know whales and dolphins are mammals, hush )

Freemium = "free to play" or "free to start", but has several barriers to progress you can either grind out, wait, or bypass with in-game currency (think mobile games with a stamina system, where you can pay money to refresh your stamina/play more).

ChaosWotan

Me whale, you Tarzan

Slick_007

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Do you pay for your Christmas gifts? Do you go into the store and give them 20$ up front and wait to see what you got for it?

"Oh you sir just got a 5$ barbie doll, if you wanted that juicy steak, or that drill over there, try again! Only 20$ per try!"

We're actively denied choice on the crown store, just because you seem to like throwing money at people in order to give you anything from a selection of very differently priced items.

you really dont get it do you. yet another failure of an analogy from the anti crate crowd.

if i wanted a kinder surprise for christmas sure, id go ask for one. if i wanted a steak, id just buy a steak. you do understand the concept that these items are inherently different right? they are both food. but one contains a 'surprise'. when you buy a kinder surprise, you dont know what you're getting inside. hence the surprise.

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Crowncrates are meant for whales that can't keep their gambling addictions in check.

more evidence that you just dont get it. you cant even understand the concept of crates, so how about stop the rage until such time as you work it out.

in fact, i think im going to go and buy some right now. you've all got me excited over crates now.

ChaosWotan

@Slick_007

The point is that ESO was not markedet with a warning saying that many of the coolest items in the game can only be obtained through gambling. ESO first got around 9-10 million people to buy the game and then partly turned it into a casino. It should be a law against that.

And the second point is that the "anti-gambling crowd" don't want the coolest items to be sold as a "kinder surprise".

Hokiewa

ChaosWotan wrote: »

@Slick_007

The point is that ESO was not markedet with a warning saying that many of the coolest items in the game can only be obtained through gambling. ESO first got around 9-10 million people to buy the game and then partly turned it into a casino. It should be a law against that.

Wait......there should be a law restricting a company's ability to adapt to market conditions and redevelop their business model? Good grief......

Balamoor

Hokiewa wrote: »

ChaosWotan wrote: »

@Slick_007

The point is that ESO was not markedet with a warning saying that many of the coolest items in the game can only be obtained through gambling. ESO first got around 9-10 million people to buy the game and then partly turned it into a casino. It should be a law against that.

Wait......there should be a law restricting a company's ability to adapt to market conditions and redevelop their business model? Good grief......

Shhhhh....logic has no place in the land of angst and mock outrage.

ChaosWotan

I suspect you are just trolling now, and that's okay, in a way, but it's still misleading marketing to sell a game as an rpg and then put some of the best rpg items behind a wall of gambling. Like selling tickets to Disneyland without telling customers that when they enter they have to get involved in gambling in order to have a 0.2 percent chance of enjoying the best rides.

Give me a good reason why we customers should be happpy with the new radiant system of pure gambling, and I will accept it, but have not seen a good reason yet.

Hokiewa

ChaosWotan wrote: »

I suspect you are just trolling now, and that's okay, in a way, but it's still misleading marketing to sell a game as an rpg and then put some of the best rpg items behind a wall of gambling. Like selling tickets to Disneyland without telling customers that when they enter they have to get involved in gambling in order to have a 0.2 percent chance of enjoying the best rides.

It's hardly revolutionary to change marketing tactics to respond to changes in that very market. ESO wasn't nearly the first game to switch from a sub to cash store/loot boxes. DDO, STO, LOTRO just off the top of my head didn't have store options/boxes initially, but then changed their marketing/model to respond to market changes. I see you didn't (again) address the fact that you want legislation to be imposed that would restrict a business's ability to adapt to those market changes......Not surprising though.

I do appreciate that you continue to use the term "best" rides because I know exactly what you are implying. However, when performance is equitable across all of the mounts, best is not the adjective an honest person would use. In your case, you should be upfront and state "the most visually appealing rides to me"

Jade1986

Hokiewa wrote: »

ChaosWotan wrote: »

I suspect you are just trolling now, and that's okay, in a way, but it's still misleading marketing to sell a game as an rpg and then put some of the best rpg items behind a wall of gambling. Like selling tickets to Disneyland without telling customers that when they enter they have to get involved in gambling in order to have a 0.2 percent chance of enjoying the best rides.

It's hardly revolutionary to change marketing tactics to respond to changes in that very market. ESO wasn't nearly the first game to switch from a sub to cash store/loot boxes. DDO, STO, LOTRO just off the top of my head didn't have store options/boxes initially, but then changed their marketing/model to respond to market changes. I see you didn't (again) address the fact that you want legislation to be imposed that would restrict a business's ability to adapt to those market changes......Not surprising though.

I do appreciate that you continue to use the term "best" rides because I know exactly what you are implying. However, when performance is equitable across all of the mounts, best is not the adjective an honest person would use. In your case, you should be upfront and state "the most visually appealing rides to me"

Its not just the mounts. It is the exclusive haircuts, the exclusive cosmetics ( as in paint, dyes and lipsticks for example ). And if they were to follow the trends, the they will be forced to eventually follow the trend of not selling rng crates in a game that is not rated 18+ , the legal gambling age in the US.

Hokiewa

Jade1986 wrote: »

Hokiewa wrote: »

ChaosWotan wrote: »

I suspect you are just trolling now, and that's okay, in a way, but it's still misleading marketing to sell a game as an rpg and then put some of the best rpg items behind a wall of gambling. Like selling tickets to Disneyland without telling customers that when they enter they have to get involved in gambling in order to have a 0.2 percent chance of enjoying the best rides.

It's hardly revolutionary to change marketing tactics to respond to changes in that very market. ESO wasn't nearly the first game to switch from a sub to cash store/loot boxes. DDO, STO, LOTRO just off the top of my head didn't have store options/boxes initially, but then changed their marketing/model to respond to market changes. I see you didn't (again) address the fact that you want legislation to be imposed that would restrict a business's ability to adapt to those market changes......Not surprising though.

I do appreciate that you continue to use the term "best" rides because I know exactly what you are implying. However, when performance is equitable across all of the mounts, best is not the adjective an honest person would use. In your case, you should be upfront and state "the most visually appealing rides to me"

Its not just the mounts. It is the exclusive haircuts, the exclusive cosmetics ( as in paint, dyes and lipsticks for example ). And if they were to follow the trends, the they will be forced to eventually follow the trend of not selling rng crates in a game that is not rated 18+ , the legal gambling age in the US.

There is no trend, you keep implying that action has been taken but nothing literally nothing has happened other then inquiries have been made. The few countries that have passed (years ago) any legislation regarding RNG crates/boxes/bags whatever you want to call them, the practice just continues under a different name and a slight procedural modification of the steps required to do exactly the same thing.

It certainly won't happen widespread in the U.S., there is legal precedent set in multiple Circuit Courts (if you found any willing to challenge established precedent) siding with the gaming companies. This is fact, not a trend.

Jade1986

Hokiewa wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Hokiewa wrote: »

ChaosWotan wrote: »

I suspect you are just trolling now, and that's okay, in a way, but it's still misleading marketing to sell a game as an rpg and then put some of the best rpg items behind a wall of gambling. Like selling tickets to Disneyland without telling customers that when they enter they have to get involved in gambling in order to have a 0.2 percent chance of enjoying the best rides.

It's hardly revolutionary to change marketing tactics to respond to changes in that very market. ESO wasn't nearly the first game to switch from a sub to cash store/loot boxes. DDO, STO, LOTRO just off the top of my head didn't have store options/boxes initially, but then changed their marketing/model to respond to market changes. I see you didn't (again) address the fact that you want legislation to be imposed that would restrict a business's ability to adapt to those market changes......Not surprising though.

I do appreciate that you continue to use the term "best" rides because I know exactly what you are implying. However, when performance is equitable across all of the mounts, best is not the adjective an honest person would use. In your case, you should be upfront and state "the most visually appealing rides to me"

Its not just the mounts. It is the exclusive haircuts, the exclusive cosmetics ( as in paint, dyes and lipsticks for example ). And if they were to follow the trends, the they will be forced to eventually follow the trend of not selling rng crates in a game that is not rated 18+ , the legal gambling age in the US.

There is no trend, you keep implying that action has been taken but nothing literally nothing has happened other then inquiries have been made. The few countries that have passed (years ago) any legislation regarding RNG crates/boxes/bags whatever you want to call them, the practice just continues under a different name and a slight procedural modification of the steps required to do exactly the same thing.

It certainly won't happen widespread in the U.S., there is legal precedent set in multiple Circuit Courts (if you found any willing to challenge established precedent) siding with the gaming companies. This is fact, not a trend.

Except those are old cases and the new ones are ongoing. Its ok though, eventually people will get sick of companies spending time and resources on rng scam crates, and will move on to games that are not being run by greedy old men. Star Citizen is in fact around the corner.

ChaosWotan

@Hokiewa

As mentioned several times earlier: by "best" I mean the best rpg items, where "rpg" stands for roleplaying, and not rocket propelled grenade in a CoD game where the "best" items are the most effective and functional gear.

To make this difference clear: let's say you are a snob and want to enter a wine tasting competition in order to get a 1982 Chateau Lafite Rothschild as a reward if you win. So you pay the 500 dollar entrance fee. But after having done this, you are told that all the best wines are only attained through gambling, with only a 0.2 percent chance of getting a bottle in the Rothschild 1982 class. You will then feel that you have been tricked and manipulated, right?

But the supporters of the competition argue that you have not been misled, because if you win the announced wine tasting competition you will in fact get a pretty good wine, with the same alcohol percentage as the Rothschild, and that is fair, they argue, since both wines have the same function, which is to get people intoxicated.

You get it now perhaps?

For sake of clarity, maybe it's necessary once again to stress that I'm only strongly opposed to the new radiant system of pure gambling, not the crown crates we had earlier, before ESO introduced the radiant mounts. The earlier version of CC was a hybrid, a combination of a regular store and a casino, making it possible for almost all players to buy an apex mount with gems, unlike the radiant system which caters to a tiny elite who can afford to waste money on this kind of pure gambling.

Making the best rpg items inaccessible to over 99 percent of the ESO gaming community is not a business practice that anybody should support, at least not the average gamer.

JKorr

Slick_007 wrote: »

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Do you pay for your Christmas gifts? Do you go into the store and give them 20$ up front and wait to see what you got for it?

"Oh you sir just got a 5$ barbie doll, if you wanted that juicy steak, or that drill over there, try again! Only 20$ per try!"

We're actively denied choice on the crown store, just because you seem to like throwing money at people in order to give you anything from a selection of very differently priced items.

you really dont get it do you. yet another failure of an analogy from the anti crate crowd.

if i wanted a kinder surprise for christmas sure, id go ask for one. if i wanted a steak, id just buy a steak. you do understand the concept that these items are inherently different right? they are both food. but one contains a 'surprise'. when you buy a kinder surprise, you dont know what you're getting inside. hence the surprise.

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Crowncrates are meant for whales that can't keep their gambling addictions in check.

more evidence that you just dont get it. you cant even understand the concept of crates, so how about stop the rage until such time as you work it out.

in fact, i think im going to go and buy some right now. you've all got me excited over crates now.

There is a limited time return of previous seasons of the crown crates in this December's Crown Store, if you want to get excited about those. The gems you get/have are restricted to buying items in the current season flame atronach crates, however. So if you missed something you wanted from the previous seasons crates, start sacrificing to the rng gremlins again because you can't use gems to buy old crate items outright.

During the month of December, we're bringing back some classic Crown Crates for a limited time. If you missed out on popular items like the ferocious Storm Atronach Senche or the Wild Hunt Bear—now you've got a second chance.
•Monday, December 4–7: Storm Atronach Crown Crates
•Monday, December 11-14: Wild Hunt Crown Crates
Note that Crown Store currently supports the purchase of items with Crown Gems from the Flame Atronach Crown Crate season. Individual Storm Atronach and Wild Hunt items can only be acquired from their respective crates while on sale.

I have no problem with ZOS creating crown crates with special themed stuff; there are people who want to be able to be surprised when they buy the crates, and they're usually the ones who are happy with the random items they get. What I do have issues with is the inclusion of old, previously released items that are NOT themed, and seem to be included simply to get people who missed the chance to buy them outright in the store to buy crates. The senche lioness? The senche leopard cub? Those were on the store for outright sale before. Why are they now included in the themed special item crates?

While there are still, sort of, new things coming for outright sale on the crown store [seems to be a hat and a holly wreath wearing horse new this month], it seems to be moving more and more to the crates. To take your kinder egg; what if you go to the store for food, and the only thing you can buy is the kinder egg? You like surprises, but all the time? Without the option of picking exactly what you want? You want a bear to ride, but the kinder crate gave you a guar. You can still ride it, but it isn't exactly what you wanted. You didn't own a guar, so now its yours forever. Buy more kinder crates and hope you either get more guars so you can get gems to buy what you want, if it can be bought with gems, or maybe the rng gremlins will let you get what you actually wanted...eventually. Maybe. I guess you always get chocolate off the kinder egg, and you always get the consumables from the crates, so.... Good luck on the crate purchase.

Balamoor

Jade1986 wrote: »

Hokiewa wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Hokiewa wrote: »

ChaosWotan wrote: »

I suspect you are just trolling now, and that's okay, in a way, but it's still misleading marketing to sell a game as an rpg and then put some of the best rpg items behind a wall of gambling. Like selling tickets to Disneyland without telling customers that when they enter they have to get involved in gambling in order to have a 0.2 percent chance of enjoying the best rides.

It's hardly revolutionary to change marketing tactics to respond to changes in that very market. ESO wasn't nearly the first game to switch from a sub to cash store/loot boxes. DDO, STO, LOTRO just off the top of my head didn't have store options/boxes initially, but then changed their marketing/model to respond to market changes. I see you didn't (again) address the fact that you want legislation to be imposed that would restrict a business's ability to adapt to those market changes......Not surprising though.

I do appreciate that you continue to use the term "best" rides because I know exactly what you are implying. However, when performance is equitable across all of the mounts, best is not the adjective an honest person would use. In your case, you should be upfront and state "the most visually appealing rides to me"

Its not just the mounts. It is the exclusive haircuts, the exclusive cosmetics ( as in paint, dyes and lipsticks for example ). And if they were to follow the trends, the they will be forced to eventually follow the trend of not selling rng crates in a game that is not rated 18+ , the legal gambling age in the US.

There is no trend, you keep implying that action has been taken but nothing literally nothing has happened other then inquiries have been made. The few countries that have passed (years ago) any legislation regarding RNG crates/boxes/bags whatever you want to call them, the practice just continues under a different name and a slight procedural modification of the steps required to do exactly the same thing.

It certainly won't happen widespread in the U.S., there is legal precedent set in multiple Circuit Courts (if you found any willing to challenge established precedent) siding with the gaming companies. This is fact, not a trend.

Except those are old cases and the new ones are ongoing. Its ok though, eventually people will get sick of companies spending time and resources on rng scam crates, and will move on to games that are not being run by greedy old men. Star Citizen is in fact around the corner.

You know..... if that were the case the constant complainers would have already moved on, (yet no matter how many times the scream they are leaving they manage to hang around for the next complaint) and since I know a couple people who work for Roberts Industries, (one of them worked with me on the Starlancer project....) I should inform you that most of those folks that are in charge of that company are older men, I also promise you they love their profit.

Slick_007

i was reading an article on tweaktown that said blizzard is making so much money from microtransactions they arent making new games, instead choosing to keep updating the ones they have. i think it was 1.6 billion in fy2017.
obviously, this tactic is successful at keeping games running. which funnily enough, is what everyone here would want right?

Raideen

Slick_007 wrote: »

i was reading an article on tweaktown that said blizzard is making so much money from microtransactions they arent making new games, instead choosing to keep updating the ones they have. i think it was 1.6 billion in fy2017.
obviously, this tactic is successful at keeping games running. which funnily enough, is what everyone here would want right?

The issue is, and this has been observed in SWTOR, LOTR, and ESO along with others. The content offerings, ie: expansions, content patches etc get less and less and the new "content" is gated behind the cash shop, or loot crates. Game companies are milking, not producing...which is one of the primary arguments against cash shops/loot crates.

Elsonso

Slick_007 wrote: »

i was reading an article on tweaktown that said blizzard is making so much money from microtransactions they arent making new games, instead choosing to keep updating the ones they have. i think it was 1.6 billion in fy2017.
obviously, this tactic is successful at keeping games running. which funnily enough, is what everyone here would want right?

If ESO is just going to be maintained so that they can put everything behind loot boxes, making it essentially a life support system for the Crown Crates, then what happens to game play? Do they even need game developers as employees? They can just hire contractors to crank out a DLC or Chapter every once and a while.

Slick_007

lordrichter wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

i was reading an article on tweaktown that said blizzard is making so much money from microtransactions they arent making new games, instead choosing to keep updating the ones they have. i think it was 1.6 billion in fy2017.
obviously, this tactic is successful at keeping games running. which funnily enough, is what everyone here would want right?

If ESO is just going to be maintained so that they can put everything behind loot boxes, making it essentially a life support system for the Crown Crates, then what happens to game play? Do they even need game developers as employees? They can just hire contractors to crank out a DLC or Chapter every once and a while.

blizzard is not eso. i was merely pointing out that microtransactions are clearly in demand by players. eso could put non cosmetics in there, or cosmetics. i know which i prefer. what about you?

Slick_007

Raideen wrote: »

Game companies are milking, not producing...which is one of the primary arguments against cash shops/loot crates.

you wanna point out where this is the primary complaint on these forums? i dont think so. and since blizzard players are still paying, they are obviously still happily playing. Isnt that the point of playing games? being happy?

Raideen

Slick_007 wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Game companies are milking, not producing...which is one of the primary arguments against cash shops/loot crates.

you wanna point out where this is the primary complaint on these forums? i dont think so. and since blizzard players are still paying, they are obviously still happily playing. Isnt that the point of playing games? being happy?

Its been said over and over and over and over (amazing you missed it) that people are concerned about the focus being shifted to crown store purchases/loot crates and less about content or fixing bugs or enhancing gameplay. So your statement "not thinking so" is less about reality and more about your lack of observational acuity. NO customer wants to pay more for their product than they have to. That is basic business psychology 101. Asserting that people are actually HAPPY about paying stupid amounts of money to obtain a digital outfit or mount is laughable, and possibly the most moronic statement one could make about customers and their needs/desires. LOL

Just because people are paying does not mean they are happy about paying. They might be happy with the game overall, but be quite unhappy about purchases. Just because the digital offering in a game is cosmetic only does not mean there is not pressure to obtain that item. In fact that is what the game companies are betting on. People feeling the need to express their individuality in game, which is the driving factor behind these purchases.

Elsonso

Slick_007 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

i was reading an article on tweaktown that said blizzard is making so much money from microtransactions they arent making new games, instead choosing to keep updating the ones they have. i think it was 1.6 billion in fy2017.
obviously, this tactic is successful at keeping games running. which funnily enough, is what everyone here would want right?

If ESO is just going to be maintained so that they can put everything behind loot boxes, making it essentially a life support system for the Crown Crates, then what happens to game play? Do they even need game developers as employees? They can just hire contractors to crank out a DLC or Chapter every once and a while.

blizzard is not eso. i was merely pointing out that microtransactions are clearly in demand by players. eso could put non cosmetics in there, or cosmetics. i know which i prefer. what about you?

Subscription system with limited store cosmetics and paid services (name change, race change, appearance change, etc).

Slick_007

Raideen wrote: »

Its been said over and over and over and over (amazing you missed it) that people are concerned about the focus being shifted to crown store purchases/loot crates and less about content or fixing bugs or enhancing gameplay.

The primary complaint iv seen on here is people whining about crates are gambling. think of the kids etc. id hardly call what you just said, and what the previous poster said, the primary concern. at least thats not what i see on here.

NO customer wants to pay more for their product than they have to. That is basic business psychology 101. Asserting that people are actually HAPPY about paying stupid amounts of money to obtain a digital outfit or mount is laughable, and possibly the most moronic statement one could make about customers and their needs/desires. LOL

whats moronic is you thinking theres nothing more to it than that. all you people (iill refer to the anti crate crowd as a whole in 'you people') whine about is i paid x but only got y. i didnt get z.
I already told you how i look at crates. and im sure im not the only one. and that its completely different to you people. and im so much happier because of it. i dont run around raging at the game i choose to play. i instead enjoy it. something you people apparently cant do.

Just because people are paying does not mean they are happy about paying. They might be happy with the game overall, but be quite unhappy about purchases. Just because the digital offering in a game is cosmetic only does not mean there is not pressure to obtain that item. In fact that is what the game companies are betting on. People feeling the need to express their individuality in game, which is the driving factor behind these purchases.

and those people unhappy about purchases have a choice not to purchase. the game is perfectly fine and playable without purchasing anything from crates, or even the crown store. in fact, you dont have to spend anything beyond buying the game. I bet you do though. you bought something. a sub, or a dlc, or morrowind. you didnt need to do any of those things yet you did. and then what, are you now whinging about doing so?

pressure? from random internet strangers, to buy things you dont need? OMG! call the anti bullying commission. we better get some help here! you know how much pressure iv felt to buy anything in the crown store? None! Zero! Zilch! Nada!

if you're 'feeling pressure' to buy from the crown store, you got issues and you got the wrong type of 'friends'. time to bug out.