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Soul Assault needs counterplay
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TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »As a theory crafter, I think your build should be at least, if not more, 50% of the deciding factor between wins and losses.
Agreed 100%...
Thinking up an awesome build and then making that build a reality is one of the strongest qualities of ESO (along with the myriad gear/ability combinations it allows as well)...
Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s1 -
Raudgrani✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't know all the technicalities behind this game, but ultimates like Soul Assault and Meteor is really "Meh, hah..." to my Stamina DK. Most of the time, these hardly make any damage at all, especially the latter of these. The few times I remember being snuffed by these, is when I've been at really low health and knocked out straight on the ground.
And no, I don't try to seem like the cool guy, I am in fact pretty squishy and constantly die to these Uppercut spammers for example, or the Ambush spammers, or the bird spammers, or the... I run Shacklebreaker and Hulking Draugr + Slimecraw, so I don't have any super tanky build either.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree, i think the build absolutely matters as much as skill. It doesnt replace skill, you give a skilled player a *** build and he'll make it work, give him a BAMF build and he'll wreck face 1v1.
Skill setup goes along with the build, bad skill choice for certain fights means your at a dissadvantage. Bring soul assault into a fight against a tanky magplar and he will laugh histerically no matter the tooltip value. Bring it into a fight with a stamina glass canon medium user and you will prove very hard to deal with.
Skill, gear choice, skill setup and enemy selection goes a LONG way in this game
So shieldbreaker is fine cause sorcs can play in heavy armor and no shields. Lol.3 -
JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭honestly, just block... don't need to worry about out healing it, a quick vigor and block.... good to live another dayTWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp1 -
Gprime31✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Block, vigor, rally, LoS, and various class skills. Pick any 1-2 of these counters.
except..you cand do anything when the jesus beam is upon you in the lag but thx.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Block, vigor, rally, LoS, and various class skills. Pick any 1-2 of these counters.
except..you cand do anything when the jesus beam is upon you in the lag but thx.
Since when does balance-changes take lag into consideration??3 -
Baccarooda✭✭✭Dealing with soul assault alone is quite easy, but once you combine soul assault with other players projectiles flying at you at the same time is another thing. Blocking and healing isnt an option anymore, neither is dodgeroll ofcourse, if you cant los in that situation you are dead
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Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Baccarooda wrote: »Dealing with soul assault alone is quite easy, but once you combine soul assault with other players projectiles flying at you at the same time is another thing. Blocking and healing isnt an option anymore, neither is dodgeroll ofcourse, if you cant los in that situation you are dead
If you can handle a dbos during those other attacks you can handle soul assault. If you can handle a meteor with an unbreakable cc during all that then you can deal with SA. Same goes with incap or any other burst ultimate MOST people choose over SA.Edited by Brutusmax1mus on December 1, 2017 1:00PM1 -
Baccarooda✭✭✭You can dodgeroll straight after being hit with dbos, negating the other peoples damage. Dodgerolling SA means death, if you cant los then you will die whilst blocking or dodgerolling.0
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I assure you that you won't be able to dodgeroll anything anymore after you got hit by a Dawnbreaker burst from a proper damage build.0 -
TheMystid✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
That's getting into exaggeration. Here's what the tooltip looks like fully buffed if I were to trash my sustain, run 48k mag and spec into maxing soul assault:HoloYoitsu wrote: »You mean counterplay like hold block and press vigor?
You mean burn all my stam then die since soul assault out DPS's my vigor and Rally? Oh and before the simpleton retorts come in:
25k health, 39k stam, 24k mitigation, 2500 crit resist, 37 elemental defender, 66 Thaurmaturge, and 4200 weapons damage. And yet that move still out DPS's my healing because it's easy to have 100k+ tool tip.
With continuous attack added on, it might approach 90k. A magden/magblade could probably push it to 100k. But once again, that's giving up a lot of sustain to get there. The tooltips can probably also be upped another 10k by running full dmg glyphs on my jewelry, but then I would to be at 1k regen. The buffed tooltip on my standard balanced build is 68k by contrast, if I were to run it.
The most concise way for me to put it is simply the reason I never run it: meteor & dawnbreaker give better results without leaving me vulnerable for 3.5 sec.
Actually you can reach higher numbers without losing regen by buffing Soul Assault with cruel flurry (vMA daggers)... not recommended but....
PC EU
Nostalgic StamDk0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
That's getting into exaggeration. Here's what the tooltip looks like fully buffed if I were to trash my sustain, run 48k mag and spec into maxing soul assault:HoloYoitsu wrote: »You mean counterplay like hold block and press vigor?
You mean burn all my stam then die since soul assault out DPS's my vigor and Rally? Oh and before the simpleton retorts come in:
25k health, 39k stam, 24k mitigation, 2500 crit resist, 37 elemental defender, 66 Thaurmaturge, and 4200 weapons damage. And yet that move still out DPS's my healing because it's easy to have 100k+ tool tip.
With continuous attack added on, it might approach 90k. A magden/magblade could probably push it to 100k. But once again, that's giving up a lot of sustain to get there. The tooltips can probably also be upped another 10k by running full dmg glyphs on my jewelry, but then I would to be at 1k regen. The buffed tooltip on my standard balanced build is 68k by contrast, if I were to run it.
The most concise way for me to put it is simply the reason I never run it: meteor & dawnbreaker give better results without leaving me vulnerable for 3.5 sec.
Actually you can reach higher numbers without losing regen by buffing Soul Assault with cruel flurry (vMA daggers)... not recommended but....
You get higher numbers just using necro + alchemist
Edited by Waffennacht on December 1, 2017 5:48PM0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
That's getting into exaggeration. Here's what the tooltip looks like fully buffed if I were to trash my sustain, run 48k mag and spec into maxing soul assault:HoloYoitsu wrote: »You mean counterplay like hold block and press vigor?
You mean burn all my stam then die since soul assault out DPS's my vigor and Rally? Oh and before the simpleton retorts come in:
25k health, 39k stam, 24k mitigation, 2500 crit resist, 37 elemental defender, 66 Thaurmaturge, and 4200 weapons damage. And yet that move still out DPS's my healing because it's easy to have 100k+ tool tip.
With continuous attack added on, it might approach 90k. A magden/magblade could probably push it to 100k. But once again, that's giving up a lot of sustain to get there. The tooltips can probably also be upped another 10k by running full dmg glyphs on my jewelry, but then I would to be at 1k regen. The buffed tooltip on my standard balanced build is 68k by contrast, if I were to run it.
The most concise way for me to put it is simply the reason I never run it: meteor & dawnbreaker give better results without leaving me vulnerable for 3.5 sec.
Actually you can reach higher numbers without losing regen by buffing Soul Assault with cruel flurry (vMA daggers)... not recommended but....
You get higher numbers just using necro + alchemist
Charge your phone, it's close to dying.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I assure you that you won't be able to dodgeroll anything anymore after you got hit by a Dawnbreaker burst from a proper damage build.
If we are talking about proper combos from proper dmg builds then SA is prety much a guaranteed death sentence for "normal" medium armor builds without them being able to do anything.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you get caught in the open, with damaged HP and on the defense, then yes, that medium build is in trouble.
But Dawnbreaker only needs your HP softened up and works against any build. Hell, even magicka builds use it, that's how good it is!1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you get caught in the open, with damaged HP and on the defense, then yes, that medium build is in trouble.
But Dawnbreaker only needs your HP softened up and works against any build. Hell, even magicka builds use it, that's how good it is!
Db doesnt ignore defenses. Meteor neither. You are trying to compare which ult is the most deadly but thats not even the point. And even in that department SA is still far more deadly against medium armor. And we are talking about medium, not everyone else.
And softened hp? If you have softened hp then SA is not almost a guaranteed death sentence. It is a guaranteed death sentence. You are talking about an ult that can deal 10k+ dmg and drain 20k+ stamina. And thats just the ult alone after you used the supposed "counter" of the ability which is block.Edited by pieratsos on December 3, 2017 2:12PM0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Of course does DB ignore defenses, just as meteor. Can't dodge them.
And that is my point here. SA is more obvious and counters a type of build a bit harder indeed. But the other ults can also shred you if you are not prepared. And they are more versatile and often instant. One way or another, you're gonna have to think about an additional layer of defense for when you can't dodge. If you don't, your build is just bad.0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just use Duroks Bane combined with Soul Strike. Doesn't matter if the stam player is heavy or medium, has cloak or not, uses sword and shield or not - it's a free kill for the magicka player.
So much fun to play in this meta then your whole reliable defense are terrible weak ass hots while all magicka classes have access to spammable "oh ***" easymode buttons.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.2 -
IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭
@Brutusmax1musBrutusmax1mus wrote: »Really tho, brass/ bone pirate/ blood spawn. Full medium, 29k resistance fully buffed. You can eat a soul assault and skoria with out blocking.
And what are your stats like??“?
Without PvP buffs, no bloodspawn procced
Xbox-EU-AD
Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.0 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mangeli200194 wrote: »
@Brutusmax1musBrutusmax1mus wrote: »Really tho, brass/ bone pirate/ blood spawn. Full medium, 29k resistance fully buffed. You can eat a soul assault and skoria with out blocking.
And what are your stats like??“?
Without PvP buffs, no bloodspawn procced
My khajiit NB is at 24k physical and spell resistance without blood spawn, 2200 stamina regen (drops when i wear troll king), 3900 weapon damage(dw, only axe gold, sword is purple), 30.5k stamina (all purple stamina enchants on all purple gear and jewelry has purple enchants). 24 points in health, 40 stamina (i wear troll king in group play to support, higher heath pool makes it easier to proc). 51.4% crit chance. 2250 crit resistance. This is all out of cyro. I've got a picture if you'd like you see it. Three image is with troll king on. No undaunted passives yet(boo pve).
Most builds don't have rediculous SA tooltips.0 -
Baconlad✭✭✭✭✭
✭Weak ass hots? Seriously? Tell me why stamina has the strongest hot then? You have multiple options for defense using your magical pool for class defense. If anything stamina is faceroll easy. When was the last time you saw a lone magplar, magdk, magblade, or magden wrecking *** on a resource? Betcha if you do they aren't using soul assault. A stamina player can stack 90% into damage and burst and not have to worry about dying to a magplar if has build 90% damage, you'll turn him into applesauce.
Stamina is OPAF this patch. Atleast with you stam toon you still have dodge roll, shuffle to get out a dodge, not including what nightblades can do with cloakingaway. My magplar? Yeah I have to have a sustain set, a defense set and skoria...ooooooo great uber damage right there.
How's that defile from sword and board treating You? *** locks mag toons down, no dodge rolling to a tree for us! What about your speed? Dont have to worry about snares do you? I cant tell you how many times a stamina toon has just sprinted away from me before my broke ass charge can hit you. You think im sprinting after you? Nope try again.
SA is weak as dog ***.
And everyone can wear duroks and let that set kill for them. All you have to do is light attack and ur enemy will be deadEdited by Baconlad on December 4, 2017 9:48PM3 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yea your whole post scream L2p and I don't know what the heal I'm talking about.Thank you for the laugh.Weak ass hots? Seriously? Tell me why stamina has the strongest hot then? You have multiple options for defense using your magical pool for class defense. If anything stamina is faceroll easy. When was the last time you saw a lone magplar, magdk, magblade, or magden wrecking *** on a resource? Betcha if you do they aren't using soul assault. A stamina player can stack 90% into damage and burst and not have to worry about dying to a magplar if has build 90% damage, you'll turn him into applesauce.
Stamina is OPAF this patch. Atleast with you stam toon you still have dodge roll, shuffle to get out a dodge, not including what nightblades can do with cloakingaway. My magplar? Yeah I have to have a sustain set, a defense set and skoria...ooooooo great uber damage right there.
How's that defile from sword and board treating You? *** locks mag toons down, no dodge rolling to a tree for us! What about your speed? Dont have to worry about snares do you? I cant tell you how many times a stamina toon has just sprinted away from me before my broke ass charge can hit you. You think im sprinting after you? Nope try again.
SA is weak as dog ***.
And everyone can wear duroks and let that set kill for them. All you have to do is light attack and ur enemy will be dead
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BroanBeast1215✭✭✭Weak ass hots? Seriously? Tell me why stamina has the strongest hot then? You have multiple options for defense using your magical pool for class defense. If anything stamina is faceroll easy. When was the last time you saw a lone magplar, magdk, magblade, or magden wrecking *** on a resource? Betcha if you do they aren't using soul assault. A stamina player can stack 90% into damage and burst and not have to worry about dying to a magplar if has build 90% damage, you'll turn him into applesauce.
Stamina is OPAF this patch. Atleast with you stam toon you still have dodge roll, shuffle to get out a dodge, not including what nightblades can do with cloakingaway. My magplar? Yeah I have to have a sustain set, a defense set and skoria...ooooooo great uber damage right there.
How's that defile from sword and board treating You? *** locks mag toons down, no dodge rolling to a tree for us! What about your speed? Dont have to worry about snares do you? I cant tell you how many times a stamina toon has just sprinted away from me before my broke ass charge can hit you. You think im sprinting after you? Nope try again.
SA is weak as dog ***.
And everyone can wear duroks and let that set kill for them. All you have to do is light attack and ur enemy will be dead
wait...aren't you the guy who lost to tamerlin?
Edited by BroanBeast1215 on December 4, 2017 10:44PM0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Of course does DB ignore defenses, just as meteor. Can't dodge them.
And that is my point here. SA is more obvious and counters a type of build a bit harder indeed. But the other ults can also shred you if you are not prepared. And they are more versatile and often instant. One way or another, you're gonna have to think about an additional layer of defense for when you can't dodge. If you don't, your build is just bad.
You do realise that you just explained the issue with SA right?
You said you are going to have to think about an additional layer of defense. You can actually block a meteor. As a medium armor build without snb u cant block SA even tho block was supposed to be the additional layer of defense that u can utilize to counter the ability. It will drain around 20k stamina and still do roughly 10k dmg through block. Thats not a counter. Do u unerstand now?2 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Of course does DB ignore defenses, just as meteor. Can't dodge them.
And that is my point here. SA is more obvious and counters a type of build a bit harder indeed. But the other ults can also shred you if you are not prepared. And they are more versatile and often instant. One way or another, you're gonna have to think about an additional layer of defense for when you can't dodge. If you don't, your build is just bad.
You do realise that you just explained the issue with SA right?
You said you are going to have to think about an additional layer of defense. You can actually block a meteor. As a medium armor build without snb u cant block SA even tho block was supposed to be the additional layer of defense that u can utilize to counter the ability. It will drain around 20k stamina and still do roughly 10k dmg through block. Thats not a counter. Do u unerstand now?
At least there's time to counter it is his point. When you get hit with a 8k frag, 7k curse with an 8k dawnbreaker right after a light attack forcepulse or mages wrath weave, and you're also stunned, you don't even have a chance to block, heal, pot, line of sight, get healed by a teammate, etc.
There are far stronger burst combos than anything with SA0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Brutusmax1mus wrote: »Of course does DB ignore defenses, just as meteor. Can't dodge them.
And that is my point here. SA is more obvious and counters a type of build a bit harder indeed. But the other ults can also shred you if you are not prepared. And they are more versatile and often instant. One way or another, you're gonna have to think about an additional layer of defense for when you can't dodge. If you don't, your build is just bad.
You do realise that you just explained the issue with SA right?
You said you are going to have to think about an additional layer of defense. You can actually block a meteor. As a medium armor build without snb u cant block SA even tho block was supposed to be the additional layer of defense that u can utilize to counter the ability. It will drain around 20k stamina and still do roughly 10k dmg through block. Thats not a counter. Do u unerstand now?
At least there's time to counter it is his point. When you get hit with a 8k frag, 7k curse with an 8k dawnbreaker right after a light attack forcepulse or mages wrath weave, and you're also stunned, you don't even have a chance to block, heal, pot, line of sight, get healed by a teammate, etc.
There are far stronger burst combos than anything with SA
7k curse? Are u kidding me right now? Have you even bothered to check the tooltips of those abilities or do you just randomly post numbers? SA has like a 5-6 times bigger tooltip than curse. If you get hit by a 7k curse then SA will kill you through block. No need for complicated combos, weaves, cc or whatever. Fury, SA dead. Good game good night.
But if u want to actually talk about combos then all the things u listed can also be used with SA as well. 7k curse 8k frag 8k db. Thats cute. How about u try 8k frags 7k curse 20k SA 7k fury. Lets see how that feels like and then we can talk about a the cc from db which ironically, you can block.
Edited by pieratsos on December 6, 2017 12:10AM1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Of course does DB ignore defenses, just as meteor. Can't dodge them.
And that is my point here. SA is more obvious and counters a type of build a bit harder indeed. But the other ults can also shred you if you are not prepared. And they are more versatile and often instant. One way or another, you're gonna have to think about an additional layer of defense for when you can't dodge. If you don't, your build is just bad.
You do realise that you just explained the issue with SA right?
You said you are going to have to think about an additional layer of defense. You can actually block a meteor. As a medium armor build without snb u cant block SA even tho block was supposed to be the additional layer of defense that u can utilize to counter the ability. It will drain around 20k stamina and still do roughly 10k dmg through block. Thats not a counter. Do u unerstand now?
YOU. CANNOT. BLOCK. MY. METEOR.
Was that clear enough for you?0 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Or can I.Of course does DB ignore defenses, just as meteor. Can't dodge them.
And that is my point here. SA is more obvious and counters a type of build a bit harder indeed. But the other ults can also shred you if you are not prepared. And they are more versatile and often instant. One way or another, you're gonna have to think about an additional layer of defense for when you can't dodge. If you don't, your build is just bad.
You do realise that you just explained the issue with SA right?
You said you are going to have to think about an additional layer of defense. You can actually block a meteor. As a medium armor build without snb u cant block SA even tho block was supposed to be the additional layer of defense that u can utilize to counter the ability. It will drain around 20k stamina and still do roughly 10k dmg through block. Thats not a counter. Do u unerstand now?
YOU. CANNOT. BLOCK. MY. METEOR.
Was that clear enough for you?
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Or can I.Of course does DB ignore defenses, just as meteor. Can't dodge them.
And that is my point here. SA is more obvious and counters a type of build a bit harder indeed. But the other ults can also shred you if you are not prepared. And they are more versatile and often instant. One way or another, you're gonna have to think about an additional layer of defense for when you can't dodge. If you don't, your build is just bad.
You do realise that you just explained the issue with SA right?
You said you are going to have to think about an additional layer of defense. You can actually block a meteor. As a medium armor build without snb u cant block SA even tho block was supposed to be the additional layer of defense that u can utilize to counter the ability. It will drain around 20k stamina and still do roughly 10k dmg through block. Thats not a counter. Do u unerstand now?
YOU. CANNOT. BLOCK. MY. METEOR.
Was that clear enough for you?
No, you can't.
Well, perhaps if you spam Immovable, but this here is more directed towards medium armor, so...0