Soul Assault needs counterplay

pieratsos

maxjapank wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

[ The viable counters to SA are facetank, shield and block (with actual block cost reduction since it has 7-8 ticks).

And you can los it.

Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.

There are trees and rocks and things you can use to los all over Cyrodiil. If you’re not using them, no wonder you are dying. That’s 100% player error.

I said im the one using SA. If u are incapable of reading then just keep ur biased opinion for urself. You conveniently ignored the facts which are 70% snare with blocking keeping u prety much locked in place and that LOS objects can be more than 2 meters away from you and instead resorted to a general bs argument telling people that they are bad because they are dying.

The irony is that this argument never proved anything and in fact, that is the most frequently used argument by people who dont want to see their crutches taken away from them.

What you fail to see is that many people adapt without complaining or making excuses. You call it "crutches" and yet it is you who makes excuses for not using los or engaging in a fight where los is readily available. Rather than asking for a nerf, you could learn to live with Soul Assault as is by adapting or asking for help from those who seem to brush it off. But once again, people don't want to learn. They just want to nerf something so that they have an easier time playing. You say you are promoting skillful game play, but you are just wanting game play to be easier for you.

Not all fights have readily available LOS genius. Whats next, telling medium armor builds to only fight in resources?

Good to know that you are incapable of reading and you keep on with ur bs argument while ignoring facts.

I never said i want the game to be easier for me. I literally said that i am using SA and i find it laughable with how easy u can get kills with it. I also find it laughable how u consider SA an ability promoting skillful gameplay. But then again that goes back to the point of not wanting ur crutches taken away from you so no wonder you call it skillful.

Anw, no point having a conversation with someone that ignores facts, cant even properly read and just puts words in other people's mouths just so he can make an argument.

Ultimate_Overlord

@Qbiken Yes, the definition varies, but thats because of different subjective views and standards, objectively its the same at its core.
The reason soul assault is "unskillful" is because the presence of it on the bar turns the odds around drastically if the person is up against a medium build, and winning a fight where you are favored this much doesnt require nearly as much skill as it takes for the disadvantaged player to win.

pieratsos

maxjapank wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

To re-trace this to a more constructive discussion:
What counter to SA do you suggest?

Just make it interruptable and maybe remove the snares but I hate all the got damn snares in this game which ik we both agree with to many damn snares.

It's an ultimate. No Ultimates are interruptable.

Its a channel Similar to Radiant which is why Radiant is interruptable.All channels are interruptable in the game.No other ultimate is interruptable because their not channels.

Radiant is a skill, not an ultimate. And being a channel has nothing to do with it. All Ultimates are uninterruptable and undodgeable.

Please stop embarrassing urself.

AOEs are undodgeable. If an ult is AOE then its undodgeable. (leap, crescent etc)
Single target instant cast abilities are dodgeable. If an ult is instant cast single target then its dodgeable. (overload, icap, onslaught etc)
Ranged channeled abilities are interruptable. If an ult is a ranged channeled ability then it should be interruptable. SA isnt.

You need to go back and learn the basics of the game.

pieratsos

Lord-Otto wrote: »

To re-trace this to a more constructive discussion:
What counter to SA do you suggest?

Reduce/remove the snare.
Reduce the ticks (not the dmg) so block can actually be a viable counter.
Should be interruptable.

I would say get rid of the cc immunity as well but whatever. Lets not take all the toys away from the potatoes.

Brutusmax1mus

I have a video of me getting hit with me yesterday in my brass/ bone pirate / troll king nb. Didn't even block it, just walked toward him, hit vigor, then wrecked him after, TK didn't proc either.

My point is that most people don't have crazy tool tips of SA.

The only thing it may need is a cost increase. It does a lot for such a cheap ultimate.

But, you ARE getting your soul directly assaulted its not meant to feel sexy.

DDuke

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

I have a video of me getting hit with me yesterday in my brass/ bone pirate / troll king nb. Didn't even block it, just walked toward him, hit vigor, then wrecked him after, TK didn't proc either.

My point is that most people don't have crazy tool tips of SA.

The only thing it may need is a cost increase. It does a lot for such a cheap ultimate.

But, you ARE getting your soul directly assaulted its not meant to feel sexy.

Cost increase sounds fair - Toxic Barrage (the other morph of bow ulti) which essentially does the same thing costs 175 (and is dodgeable/interruptable/deals less dmg, which is why no one uses the morph).

technohic

DDuke wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

I have a video of me getting hit with me yesterday in my brass/ bone pirate / troll king nb. Didn't even block it, just walked toward him, hit vigor, then wrecked him after, TK didn't proc either.

My point is that most people don't have crazy tool tips of SA.

The only thing it may need is a cost increase. It does a lot for such a cheap ultimate.

But, you ARE getting your soul directly assaulted its not meant to feel sexy.

Cost increase sounds fair - Toxic Barrage (the other morph of bow ulti) which essentially does the same thing costs 175 (and is dodgeable/interruptable/deals less dmg, which is why no one uses the morph).

Well; I’m sure it is a reason but not sure the reason. Ballista just allows you to attack or go defense at the same time as well as not get hit by any reflect. Now I’m wondering if damage from that will damage you with eclipse on you.

Devilhand

pieratsos wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

To re-trace this to a more constructive discussion:
What counter to SA do you suggest?

Reduce/remove the snare.
Reduce the ticks (not the dmg) so block can actually be a viable counter.
Should be interruptable.

I would say get rid of the cc immunity as well but whatever. Lets not take all the toys away from the potatoes.

I agree on many of those, but just wondering... If ticks are reduced but damage is not, that would mean you can get hit by an enormous tick of dmg (Risk of one shoots?)

Waffennacht

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

I have a video of me getting hit with me yesterday in my brass/ bone pirate / troll king nb. Didn't even block it, just walked toward him, hit vigor, then wrecked him after, TK didn't proc either.

My point is that most people don't have crazy tool tips of SA.

The only thing it may need is a cost increase. It does a lot for such a cheap ultimate.

But, you ARE getting your soul directly assaulted its not meant to feel sexy.

Did someone say Fortified Brass?? O_o

Brutusmax1mus

Waffennacht wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

I have a video of me getting hit with me yesterday in my brass/ bone pirate / troll king nb. Didn't even block it, just walked toward him, hit vigor, then wrecked him after, TK didn't proc either.

My point is that most people don't have crazy tool tips of SA.

The only thing it may need is a cost increase. It does a lot for such a cheap ultimate.

But, you ARE getting your soul directly assaulted its not meant to feel sexy.

Did someone say Fortified Brass?? O_o

Lol oh yes, crafted a light and medium version of this set on day 1. Actually loving it on my nb, who i play as a brawler and try to manipulate the battle field with and support the team with troll king. I can almost hear the zerglings yelling "GET THE SQUISHY NIGHT BLADE, SOUL ASSAULT HIM! (For the sake of the thread)", as i jump in 1v3 so my 2 compadres can go 2v or 3 or something.

pieratsos

Devilhand wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

To re-trace this to a more constructive discussion:
What counter to SA do you suggest?

Reduce/remove the snare.
Reduce the ticks (not the dmg) so block can actually be a viable counter.
Should be interruptable.

I would say get rid of the cc immunity as well but whatever. Lets not take all the toys away from the potatoes.

I agree on many of those, but just wondering... If ticks are reduced but damage is not, that would mean you can get hit by an enormous tick of dmg (Risk of one shoots?)

It could be more dangerous at the beginning of the channel cause u may not block the first tick if it comes after a cc, not one shots tho.

But i doubt there would be much of a difference. I mean, realistically speaking whether the ticks happen every half a second or every 1 second u wont really tell the difference unless u are robot. Its more about how the ability works, not about how u feel it. Most people probably dont even realise that the ability has 7-8 ticks of dmg and they believe that blocking SA its the same as blocking any other ability. Hence, the comments "just block it".

Metemsycosis

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

I have a video of me getting hit with me yesterday in my brass/ bone pirate / troll king nb. Didn't even block it, just walked toward him, hit vigor, then wrecked him after, TK didn't proc either.

My point is that most people don't have crazy tool tips of SA.

The only thing it may need is a cost increase. It does a lot for such a cheap ultimate.

But, you ARE getting your soul directly assaulted its not meant to feel sexy.

Incap is 30 cheaper, stuns, defiles, and empowers the next attack

Burst is better than a 4 second dot.

I think soul assault already can be countered with thoughtful building and appropriate timing but strictly glass cannon medium armor builds don't stand a chance. I play a stamblade and most of my deaths are to other stamblade or soul assault gankers. Increasing the cost of SA won't change that IMO.

DDuke

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

I have a video of me getting hit with me yesterday in my brass/ bone pirate / troll king nb. Didn't even block it, just walked toward him, hit vigor, then wrecked him after, TK didn't proc either.

My point is that most people don't have crazy tool tips of SA.

The only thing it may need is a cost increase. It does a lot for such a cheap ultimate.

But, you ARE getting your soul directly assaulted its not meant to feel sexy.

Incap is 30 cheaper, stuns, defiles, and empowers the next attack

Burst is better than a 4 second dot.

I think soul assault already can be countered with thoughtful building and appropriate timing but strictly glass cannon medium armor builds don't stand a chance. I play a stamblade and most of my deaths are to other stamblade or soul assault gankers. Increasing the cost of SA won't change that IMO.

Incap (and all of the following burst) can be dodged though.

Dying to Incap is never a "[snip], nothing I can do about that because I don't play a tank build", it's always: "oh, gotta play better & react faster next time!".

There's a big difference between how it feels dying to an Incap combo and dying to Soul Assault or any other undodgeable dmg in the game.


That said, increasing cost of SA wouldn't change much, but it would bring it closer to bow ulti in terms of balance.

I still think it should be interruptable as well, as it's really, really punishing especially in 1vX at the moment (for all non S&B builds).
If you could counter it by staying close to the ranged magicka builds (or just bashing the melee ones using it on you), I think that'd improve PvP experience without really ruining the ulti.

Sharee

DDuke wrote: »

If you could counter it by staying close to the ranged magicka builds (or just bashing the melee ones using it on you), I think that'd improve PvP experience without really ruining the ulti.

When was the last time your medium armor melee build allowed a ranged magicka build to stay at range and attack you from there?

Metemsycosis

DDuke wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

I have a video of me getting hit with me yesterday in my brass/ bone pirate / troll king nb. Didn't even block it, just walked toward him, hit vigor, then wrecked him after, TK didn't proc either.

My point is that most people don't have crazy tool tips of SA.

The only thing it may need is a cost increase. It does a lot for such a cheap ultimate.

But, you ARE getting your soul directly assaulted its not meant to feel sexy.

Incap is 30 cheaper, stuns, defiles, and empowers the next attack

Burst is better than a 4 second dot.

I think soul assault already can be countered with thoughtful building and appropriate timing but strictly glass cannon medium armor builds don't stand a chance. I play a stamblade and most of my deaths are to other stamblade or soul assault gankers. Increasing the cost of SA won't change that IMO.

Incap (and all of the following burst) can be dodged though.

Dying to Incap is never a "[snip], nothing I can do about that because I don't play a tank build", it's always: "oh, gotta play better & react faster next time!".

There's a big difference between how it feels dying to an Incap combo and dying to Soul Assault or any other undodgeable dmg in the game.


That said, increasing cost of SA wouldn't change much, but it would bring it closer to bow ulti in terms of balance.

I still think it should be interruptable as well, as it's really, really punishing especially in 1vX at the moment (for all non S&B builds).
If you could counter it by staying close to the ranged magicka builds (or just bashing the melee ones using it on you), I think that'd improve PvP experience without really ruining the ulti.

Yes because we both know how prevalent those rolly polly mag builds are. Come now. It is a good comparison for this very reason: If I am playing a 9k stamina magsorc (a magsorc lacking secondary levels of defense, a glass cannon in other words) and a NB bunny hops on me and I Dodge the incap there is a good chance I wont be able to cc break in time to eat heavy hits. A good heavy attack surprise attack combo can melt a shields-down light armor mag anything. Especially with 3-4 seconds to do so. Well now my 9k stamina magsorc is dead. In a few minutes i will post about how op incap is whenever I haven't taken the simplest measures to avoid its impact on me.


ETA: I think you're engaging a false dichotomy. Either glass cannon or tank.

Metemsycosis

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

If you could counter it by staying close to the ranged magicka builds (or just bashing the melee ones using it on you), I think that'd improve PvP experience without really ruining the ulti.

When was the last time your medium armor melee build allowed a ranged magicka build to stay at range and attack you from there?

Last patch I used cripple and agony to do exactly that. Can't anymore but fear is so stupid killing with soul assault has never been easier.

DDuke

Sharee wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

If you could counter it by staying close to the ranged magicka builds (or just bashing the melee ones using it on you), I think that'd improve PvP experience without really ruining the ulti.

When was the last time your medium armor melee build allowed a ranged magicka build to stay at range and attack you from there?

There are ways:

Mines, Manifestation of Terror, Volcanic Rune, Shadow Image, Cloak, Streak, snares, roots, knockbacks


Now, the best tools are sorc/NB specific which is a problem - but they do exist.

I do wish there were more abilities to discourage gap closer spam though, especially for other classes than NB & Sorc.

Metemsycosis wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

I have a video of me getting hit with me yesterday in my brass/ bone pirate / troll king nb. Didn't even block it, just walked toward him, hit vigor, then wrecked him after, TK didn't proc either.

My point is that most people don't have crazy tool tips of SA.

The only thing it may need is a cost increase. It does a lot for such a cheap ultimate.

But, you ARE getting your soul directly assaulted its not meant to feel sexy.

Incap is 30 cheaper, stuns, defiles, and empowers the next attack

Burst is better than a 4 second dot.

I think soul assault already can be countered with thoughtful building and appropriate timing but strictly glass cannon medium armor builds don't stand a chance. I play a stamblade and most of my deaths are to other stamblade or soul assault gankers. Increasing the cost of SA won't change that IMO.

Incap (and all of the following burst) can be dodged though.

Dying to Incap is never a "[snip], nothing I can do about that because I don't play a tank build", it's always: "oh, gotta play better & react faster next time!".

There's a big difference between how it feels dying to an Incap combo and dying to Soul Assault or any other undodgeable dmg in the game.


That said, increasing cost of SA wouldn't change much, but it would bring it closer to bow ulti in terms of balance.

I still think it should be interruptable as well, as it's really, really punishing especially in 1vX at the moment (for all non S&B builds).
If you could counter it by staying close to the ranged magicka builds (or just bashing the melee ones using it on you), I think that'd improve PvP experience without really ruining the ulti.

Yes because we both know how prevalent those rolly polly mag builds are. Come now. It is a good comparison for this very reason: If I am playing a 9k stamina magsorc (a magsorc lacking secondary levels of defense, a glass cannon in other words) and a NB bunny hops on me and I Dodge the incap there is a good chance I wont be able to cc break in time to eat heavy hits. A good heavy attack surprise attack combo can melt a shields-down light armor mag anything. Especially with 3-4 seconds to do so. Well now my 9k stamina magsorc is dead. In a few minutes i will post about how op incap is whenever I haven't taken the simplest measures to avoid its impact on me.


ETA: I think you're engaging a false dichotomy. Either glass cannon or tank.

Well, you have to play a really high damage stamblade to burst through shields and health pool, and it usually requires a Selene proc (i.e. RNG).

When playing against these builds, I'd just shield up & keep CC breaking. If you see the bear and opponent has Incap up, then dodge.

Without bear, it's not mathematically possible to get through 15k shield spam (in 1v1), and if you keep cursing that high dmg build it'll outdamage any Vigor heals going on and eventually force the stamblade to play defense & escape or die.

pieratsos

Metemsycosis wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

I have a video of me getting hit with me yesterday in my brass/ bone pirate / troll king nb. Didn't even block it, just walked toward him, hit vigor, then wrecked him after, TK didn't proc either.

My point is that most people don't have crazy tool tips of SA.

The only thing it may need is a cost increase. It does a lot for such a cheap ultimate.

But, you ARE getting your soul directly assaulted its not meant to feel sexy.

Incap is 30 cheaper, stuns, defiles, and empowers the next attack

Burst is better than a 4 second dot.

I think soul assault already can be countered with thoughtful building and appropriate timing but strictly glass cannon medium armor builds don't stand a chance. I play a stamblade and most of my deaths are to other stamblade or soul assault gankers. Increasing the cost of SA won't change that IMO.

Incap (and all of the following burst) can be dodged though.

Dying to Incap is never a "[snip], nothing I can do about that because I don't play a tank build", it's always: "oh, gotta play better & react faster next time!".

There's a big difference between how it feels dying to an Incap combo and dying to Soul Assault or any other undodgeable dmg in the game.


That said, increasing cost of SA wouldn't change much, but it would bring it closer to bow ulti in terms of balance.

I still think it should be interruptable as well, as it's really, really punishing especially in 1vX at the moment (for all non S&B builds).
If you could counter it by staying close to the ranged magicka builds (or just bashing the melee ones using it on you), I think that'd improve PvP experience without really ruining the ulti.

Yes because we both know how prevalent those rolly polly mag builds are. Come now. It is a good comparison for this very reason: If I am playing a 9k stamina magsorc (a magsorc lacking secondary levels of defense, a glass cannon in other words) and a NB bunny hops on me and I Dodge the incap there is a good chance I wont be able to cc break in time to eat heavy hits. A good heavy attack surprise attack combo can melt a shields-down light armor mag anything. Especially with 3-4 seconds to do so. Well now my 9k stamina magsorc is dead. In a few minutes i will post about how op incap is whenever I haven't taken the simplest measures to avoid its impact on me.


ETA: I think you're engaging a false dichotomy. Either glass cannon or tank.

If you are playing a magicka sorc with 9k stamina and no adequate stam regen dont complain why u run out stamina. With the current state of the game, CP and sets like amberplasm and shacklebreaker there is no excuse to run out of stamina after one roll and one cc. I play a magicka sorc. Stamina hasnt been my weakness since thieves guild.

Incap is strong. Maybe too strong. But there are basic mechanics that can be built in every single build in the game that can counter it. And even if incap is broken (which is a completely different discussion) it still doesnt excuse other abilities being equally broken. You do not fix stupid things with other stupid things. Shieldstacking is stupid too. But i imagine that you dont consider shieldbreaker good tho right?

Alphaa

Takes like 7k stam to counter a soul assault. Chill out

DDuke

Alphaa wrote: »

Takes like 7k stam to counter a soul assault. Chill out

Actually it takes 15 720 stamina with 20 points in Shadow Ward. If you count the two lost stam regen ticks, that can be anything between an additional 2-4k stamina "lost", depending on stam regen.

Sharee

pieratsos wrote: »

If you are playing a magicka sorc with 9k magicka stamina and no adequate stam regen dont complain why u run out stamina.

But playing a stam build with 9K magicka and no adequate magicka regen, then complaining about not having enough magicka for mist form is cool.

Gotcha.

pieratsos wrote: »

"With the current state of the game, CP and sets like amberplasm and shacklebreaker there is no excuse to run out of stamina after one roll and one cc."

Why don't you apply that logic to "i don't have enough magicka to use mistform", mmm?

DDuke

Sharee wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

If you are playing a magicka sorc with 9k magicka stamina and no adequate stam regen dont complain why u run out stamina.

But playing a stam build with 9K magicka and no adequate magicka regen, then complaining about not having enough magicka for mist form is cool.

Gotcha.

pieratsos wrote: »

"With the current state of the game, CP and sets like amberplasm and shacklebreaker there is no excuse to run out of stamina after one roll and one cc."

Why don't you apply that logic to "i don't have enough magicka to use mistform", mmm?

There's a pretty big difference between a defensive utility naturally available to everyone, and a defensive utility skill you need to slot (and become a vampire for) - just saying...

It's also worth noting that there isn't an equivalent to Amberplasm available for stamina builds, most of the medium armor sets in general are underwhelming compared to magicka sets.

UppGRAYxDD

Lol this thread is always good for a laugh....my 2 cents, SA isn't the real issue...medium armor passives are. The devs should look to increase mitigation and critical dmg mit on medium armor. As it stands most(not all) medium builds rely on dodge for defense and usually wear a lot of well fitted gear which leaves them susceptible to hvy consistent dmg. My suggestion for those who have issues with soul assault: wear more impen gear, stack more cp in the DoT mit tree, wear troll king or increase your health recovery, and if all fails roll a stamblade or magblade due to the fact that you can cloak SA after 2 seconds..another hard counter available to all classes is to rock a SnB and use the absorb Magicka skill to gain health as they soul assault you as well as reducing your block cost through SnB passives.

Sharee

DDuke wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

If you are playing a magicka sorc with 9k magicka stamina and no adequate stam regen dont complain why u run out stamina.

But playing a stam build with 9K magicka and no adequate magicka regen, then complaining about not having enough magicka for mist form is cool.

Gotcha.

pieratsos wrote: »

"With the current state of the game, CP and sets like amberplasm and shacklebreaker there is no excuse to run out of stamina after one roll and one cc."

Why don't you apply that logic to "i don't have enough magicka to use mistform", mmm?

There's a pretty big difference between a defensive utility naturally available to everyone, and a defensive utility skill you need to slot (and become a vampire for), just saying.

Sure. That does not change the fact that if "just use shacklebreaker" is an answer to complaints about not having enough stamina, it is also an answer to complaints about not having enough magicka.

UppGRAYxDD

DDuke wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

If you are playing a magicka sorc with 9k magicka stamina and no adequate stam regen dont complain why u run out stamina.

But playing a stam build with 9K magicka and no adequate magicka regen, then complaining about not having enough magicka for mist form is cool.

Gotcha.

pieratsos wrote: »

"With the current state of the game, CP and sets like amberplasm and shacklebreaker there is no excuse to run out of stamina after one roll and one cc."

Why don't you apply that logic to "i don't have enough magicka to use mistform", mmm?

There's a pretty big difference between a defensive utility naturally available to everyone, and a defensive utility skill you need to slot (and become a vampire for) - just saying...

It's also worth noting that there isn't an equivalent to Amberplasm available for stamina builds, most of the medium armor sets in general are underwhelming compared to magicka sets.

bone pirate...

pieratsos

Sharee wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

If you are playing a magicka sorc with 9k magicka stamina and no adequate stam regen dont complain why u run out stamina.

But playing a stam build with 9K magicka and no adequate magicka regen, then complaining about not having enough magicka for mist form is cool.

Gotcha.

pieratsos wrote: »

"With the current state of the game, CP and sets like amberplasm and shacklebreaker there is no excuse to run out of stamina after one roll and one cc."

Why don't you apply that logic to "i don't have enough magicka to use mistform", mmm?

I dont apply that logic cause there is no logic behind that and i already explained it.

I was actually prety sure that u will answer with this. I am not talking about the odd medium armor build that plays with 9k magicka and zero regen and complains about not having magicka. Normal medium armor builds already run with shackle, tri stat food, gold food even atro mundus etc to have utilities such as cloak which i did consider a "counter" right? But mist form goes well beyond than simply getting a little more magicka. And shackle and amberplasm are not even a "sacrifice". Both can fit perfectly with magicka builds. Or you can just simply run tri stat food and problem solved.

Dodge roll is a basic game mechanic, built in ur toolkit, doesnt cost bar spaces, can reduce its cost and helps with "everything". Mist form isnt the same. Not even close. I am talking about basic game mechanics and u are talking about niche case scenarios of slotting one ability with no synergy to ur build, ignoring every downside that comes with it just for the sake of countering one skilless ability in the game that completely defies basic game design.

Mist form is a just a niche case scenario. Shieldbreaker is also a niche case to combat shields and look where did that end. You want a comparison to mist form then here is one. I can run a heavy armor sorc with a bunch of heals from resto (another niche case with no synergy to the class) and survive shieldbreaker just fine . So i guess shieldbreaker is balanced right? You see, under those circumstances, every single ability and set in the game can be broken and balanced at the same time.

DDuke

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

If you are playing a magicka sorc with 9k magicka stamina and no adequate stam regen dont complain why u run out stamina.

But playing a stam build with 9K magicka and no adequate magicka regen, then complaining about not having enough magicka for mist form is cool.

Gotcha.

pieratsos wrote: »

"With the current state of the game, CP and sets like amberplasm and shacklebreaker there is no excuse to run out of stamina after one roll and one cc."

Why don't you apply that logic to "i don't have enough magicka to use mistform", mmm?

There's a pretty big difference between a defensive utility naturally available to everyone, and a defensive utility skill you need to slot (and become a vampire for) - just saying...

It's also worth noting that there isn't an equivalent to Amberplasm available for stamina builds, most of the medium armor sets in general are underwhelming compared to magicka sets.

bone pirate...

Gives you 2000 stamina & 150 stam regen, in terms of "value" it's only slightly above Hunding's if you're looking for balanced regen/dmg setup.

It's worth around 3 normal set bonuses (though also means no Orzorga's golden food, which is BiS for stam builds).


Amberplasm is 250 stam regen & 250 magicka regen, which in terms of value is closer to 4 set bonuses.

ak_pvp

Anyone saying soul assault is fine is probably a zergling, hide in your little ball and Xv1 some pleb who is snared 70% and abuse their stam. There is nearly no use for it outside of that, maybe cheese killing some med players who can't escape?

Its skilless and counterless.

Sharee

pieratsos wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

If you are playing a magicka sorc with 9k magicka stamina and no adequate stam regen dont complain why u run out stamina.

But playing a stam build with 9K magicka and no adequate magicka regen, then complaining about not having enough magicka for mist form is cool.

Gotcha.

pieratsos wrote: »

"With the current state of the game, CP and sets like amberplasm and shacklebreaker there is no excuse to run out of stamina after one roll and one cc."

Why don't you apply that logic to "i don't have enough magicka to use mistform", mmm?

I am not talking about the odd medium armor build that plays with 9k magicka and zero regen and complains about not having magicka. Normal medium armor builds already run with shackle, tri stat food, gold food even atro mundus etc to have utilities such as cloak which i did consider a "counter" right? But mist form goes well beyond than simply getting a little more magicka.

My shacklebreaker-wearing stamina werewolf has 18000 magicka. If you are seriously claiming that you are unable to use mistform once in a blue moon(SA can't be exactly spammed) with that, and possibly even atro mundus, then you need to work on your resouce management skills.

ak_pvp

Sharee wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

If you are playing a magicka sorc with 9k magicka stamina and no adequate stam regen dont complain why u run out stamina.

But playing a stam build with 9K magicka and no adequate magicka regen, then complaining about not having enough magicka for mist form is cool.

Gotcha.

pieratsos wrote: »

"With the current state of the game, CP and sets like amberplasm and shacklebreaker there is no excuse to run out of stamina after one roll and one cc."

Why don't you apply that logic to "i don't have enough magicka to use mistform", mmm?

I am not talking about the odd medium armor build that plays with 9k magicka and zero regen and complains about not having magicka. Normal medium armor builds already run with shackle, tri stat food, gold food even atro mundus etc to have utilities such as cloak which i did consider a "counter" right? But mist form goes well beyond than simply getting a little more magicka.

My shacklebreaker-wearing stamina werewolf has 18000 magicka. If you are seriously claiming that you are unable to use mistform once in a blue moon(SA can't be exactly spammed) with that, and possibly even atro mundus, then you need to work on your resouce management skills.

Mist on squishier stam builds against multiple players is a death sentence. It costs a slot; can be snared via gapclosers; makes you a vegetable.

Its like saying to a mag build run shield breaker to counter shields. No, fix the abilities.