The Zerg Drama Thread (formerly "how to fight ball groups")

frozywozy

Satiar wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

I had no idea this was such a point of contention. If its that hotly disputed, why wasnt there ever a documented GvG on Shor or one o hte dead campaigns where interruptions wold be non-existent?

Drac really wanted one. Our guild policy was to uniformly turn down artificial gvgs, as allowing for carefully pre-tailored gear and setups leads to max cheese in ESO. We fought them more then enough with equal numbers I never saw the need to break with policy.

Policy must be followed.

Drakkdjinn

Hi guys I think I'm lost: I'm looking for the pointless guild drama thread for crutch point PvP - right place?

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Hi guys I think I'm lost: I'm looking for the pointless guild drama thread for crutch point PvP - right place?

No that thread got closed down unfortunately. This is how to defeat destro proxy tanks through use of forum pvp.

Joy_Division

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

VE is still the best Forum PVP guild PC/NA. Getting Frozn to ring for you isn't going to help. Sorry Drac.

This isn't a Frozn or a Drac thing. Pretty much everyone in EP who have played this game for the past 2years have seen NPK + VE or BoD + VE form a 50men megazerg at Chalman mine for hours with meteors spamming endlessly. It was never their fault though, it was the fault of the enemy zerg stacking their whole faction to defend causing the lag.

VE mindset :

Large numbers of unorganized pugs on the screen are the major cause of the lag.

Not 2 organized 24men guilds synchronizing prox dets, heals, and damaging ults all together.

Why don't you roll a DC or AD toon and take a look at what your faction does? Should I post those screenshots of your guild at one of the numerous 60+ EP faction stacks at Aleswell Farm? .

What was once an informative thread has been completely derailed because people have to protect their egos by accusing everyone else of crap they'd love to believe they are Innocent of.

I have zerged surfed hundred and hundred of times, there is no shame in that. But I never ran in a 24men elite ballgroup stacking on top of another 24men ballgroup. Why? Because I still believe today that the server ressources / poor performances cannot support such gameplay.

I would put 1k US dollars on this that if you put the following people in one max pop server at a specific location, results would be much different in performances :

• Two enemy groups of 50 disorganized pugs fighting each other in the same area
• Two enemy groups made of 2x 24men ballgroups each fighting each other in the same area

You want a medal or something for because you only brought your 12 man to a faction-stack? And if you think the 60 EP at Aleswell are "disorganized PuGs," you're deluded. Turn on your Guild Tabbard options sometime.

You are just making excuses trying to justify the very actions you condemn others for doing. You may believe it, but anyone who has to fight EP isn't buying the nonsense you are selling.

I don't work on assumptions and declarations anymore. You think what I do is bringing my 12men and stack on top of an EP zerg? How about you clip me doing it on my stream and expose me here? I have been streaming my PvP events with Vok for over a year now. Here is the last broadcast of my weekly Thursday PvP event (yesterday). Clip anywhere during those 4hours where I decided to engage in a battle where there was already an EP zerg.

You are good with words Joy, I'll give you that. You can be very convincing when it comes to defending what you believe or what offends you but saying that you have seen me running a 12men at Aleswell farm have strictly nothing to do with the fact that 50 disorganized pugs cause way less performance issues than 2x 24men ballgroups running their meteor pain train at Chalman mine for hours.

Nobody is debating whether or not 50 disorganized PuGs cause way less performance issues than two 24 ballgroups. It's something that is not in dispute.

You come onto the forums on your high horse and insist that EP has to put up with DC guild stacking at Chalman mine for two years, blatantly ignoring that the Vokundeins, Havocs, Kushes, Haxuses, Invictuses, Pact Militias, Specters of the Phoenixes, Dracaryses, Nexuses, TYSMs, Phoenix Risings, ZDMs, Phoenix Risings, Blood for the Pacts, the IRs, etc., have all willingly stacked at Aleswell Farm since the game launched back in April 2014.

Has nothing to do with words Frozn. You can link me your guild stream all you want. I and those who play DC and AD know exactly what we have to put up with from the Ebonheart Faction. Somehow when Vokundein winds up in an EP faction stack it's for legitimate, understandable, and excusable reasons. When VE shows up in a faction stack it's for illegitimate, selfish, and inexcusable reasons. If you believe that, you are biased and blind.

It's always interesting to me that people compare a 12 man sometimes joining some faction pugs to a 24m (being generous today) group from joining not only pugs but also other 24m groups as their standard method of play.

Any group with a brain knows that if you push the next keep in the line you are likely to have support by your faction if not by the other groups who are also afraid to roam. When that becomes the default choice of a 24m which could be creating some action elsewhere that's when it's a shame.
This being said if that's what the group wants to do its fine but own it. Don't try and hide / cry foul when people bring it up and talk about it.

Whose trying to hide or call foul? Unlike you and Frozn, I am under no illusions or fantasies as to how this game is played, what the groups and guilds I am in have done. None, I have never denied it.

You're the one trying to set your guild apart and you'll grasp at any straw to do so. Your hypocrisy shows in that you have two different standards of counting numbers. You will not count any EP in your vicinity because they aren't in your group and not coordinating with you, and yet you do not apply this same standard to the guild that you fights - if any DC is anywhere near VE, then that is conscious factions tacking and why you so casually say we run with 40. And you say I'm trying to hide? What a joke.

I am not denying that you think it helps EP to go farm DC pugs at Nickel or backcap Ash, which moves you away from the faction stack. But if you think your ball-group of destro-ultis, earthgores, and negates is somehow more palatable form of zerging because you only run 16 instead of 24, you should listen to Publius and other people non EP say in zone chat sometime. And for every time you go on your own to the Western portion of the map, we all see you and your guild, Pact Milita raid 3, with other EP guilds.

If you want to throw rocks living in a glass house, that's your prerogative. Go ahead and console yourself that you and your guild are superior sportsmen and women because you restrain your ball-group size or the amount of times you'll stack with other EP guilds. Delude yourself if it helps you sleep at night. Keep telling yourself that when you had VE and BoD names on your death-recap, it was because we stacked together as our "standard method of play." But somehow when I had Drac and PM names on my death-recap, it was somehow fundamentally different, a rare occurrence. You're just as biased and blind as Frozn is.

For someone telling others not to try and hide or cry foul when people bring up their grievances, you are pretty lousy at following your own advice.

I do not deny I have done, do, and will continue to do things that *** people off playing this game. I generally try not to, but the way the game is designed, the way the map is laid out, the way the campaigns are scored and rewarded, and the low numbers of actual people PvPing mean there are times that I do, and some of these times happen because reasons. And when I do these crappy things, I own it, I admit it, I don't hide, I don't try to excuse it because other people do those crappy things more often. So don't accuse me of doing so just because you, Frozn, and so many other people on these forums who do just to assuage their egos.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Joy_Division wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

VE is still the best Forum PVP guild PC/NA. Getting Frozn to ring for you isn't going to help. Sorry Drac.

This isn't a Frozn or a Drac thing. Pretty much everyone in EP who have played this game for the past 2years have seen NPK + VE or BoD + VE form a 50men megazerg at Chalman mine for hours with meteors spamming endlessly. It was never their fault though, it was the fault of the enemy zerg stacking their whole faction to defend causing the lag.

VE mindset :

Large numbers of unorganized pugs on the screen are the major cause of the lag.

Not 2 organized 24men guilds synchronizing prox dets, heals, and damaging ults all together.

Why don't you roll a DC or AD toon and take a look at what your faction does? Should I post those screenshots of your guild at one of the numerous 60+ EP faction stacks at Aleswell Farm? .

What was once an informative thread has been completely derailed because people have to protect their egos by accusing everyone else of crap they'd love to believe they are Innocent of.

I have zerged surfed hundred and hundred of times, there is no shame in that. But I never ran in a 24men elite ballgroup stacking on top of another 24men ballgroup. Why? Because I still believe today that the server ressources / poor performances cannot support such gameplay.

I would put 1k US dollars on this that if you put the following people in one max pop server at a specific location, results would be much different in performances :

• Two enemy groups of 50 disorganized pugs fighting each other in the same area
• Two enemy groups made of 2x 24men ballgroups each fighting each other in the same area

You want a medal or something for because you only brought your 12 man to a faction-stack? And if you think the 60 EP at Aleswell are "disorganized PuGs," you're deluded. Turn on your Guild Tabbard options sometime.

You are just making excuses trying to justify the very actions you condemn others for doing. You may believe it, but anyone who has to fight EP isn't buying the nonsense you are selling.

I don't work on assumptions and declarations anymore. You think what I do is bringing my 12men and stack on top of an EP zerg? How about you clip me doing it on my stream and expose me here? I have been streaming my PvP events with Vok for over a year now. Here is the last broadcast of my weekly Thursday PvP event (yesterday). Clip anywhere during those 4hours where I decided to engage in a battle where there was already an EP zerg.

You are good with words Joy, I'll give you that. You can be very convincing when it comes to defending what you believe or what offends you but saying that you have seen me running a 12men at Aleswell farm have strictly nothing to do with the fact that 50 disorganized pugs cause way less performance issues than 2x 24men ballgroups running their meteor pain train at Chalman mine for hours.

Nobody is debating whether or not 50 disorganized PuGs cause way less performance issues than two 24 ballgroups. It's something that is not in dispute.

You come onto the forums on your high horse and insist that EP has to put up with DC guild stacking at Chalman mine for two years, blatantly ignoring that the Vokundeins, Havocs, Kushes, Haxuses, Invictuses, Pact Militias, Specters of the Phoenixes, Dracaryses, Nexuses, TYSMs, Phoenix Risings, ZDMs, Phoenix Risings, Blood for the Pacts, the IRs, etc., have all willingly stacked at Aleswell Farm since the game launched back in April 2014.

Has nothing to do with words Frozn. You can link me your guild stream all you want. I and those who play DC and AD know exactly what we have to put up with from the Ebonheart Faction. Somehow when Vokundein winds up in an EP faction stack it's for legitimate, understandable, and excusable reasons. When VE shows up in a faction stack it's for illegitimate, selfish, and inexcusable reasons. If you believe that, you are biased and blind.

It's always interesting to me that people compare a 12 man sometimes joining some faction pugs to a 24m (being generous today) group from joining not only pugs but also other 24m groups as their standard method of play.

Any group with a brain knows that if you push the next keep in the line you are likely to have support by your faction if not by the other groups who are also afraid to roam. When that becomes the default choice of a 24m which could be creating some action elsewhere that's when it's a shame.
This being said if that's what the group wants to do its fine but own it. Don't try and hide / cry foul when people bring it up and talk about it.

Whose trying to hide or call foul? Unlike you and Frozn, I am under no illusions or fantasies as to how this game is played, what the groups and guilds I am in have done. None, I have never denied it.

You're the one trying to set your guild apart and you'll grasp at any straw to do so. Your hypocrisy shows in that you have two different standards of counting numbers. You will not count any EP in your vicinity because they aren't in your group and not coordinating with you, and yet you do not apply this same standard to the guild that you fights - if any DC is anywhere near VE, then that is conscious factions tacking and why you so casually say we run with 40. And you say I'm trying to hide? What a joke.

I am not denying that you think it helps EP to go farm DC pugs at Nickel or backcap Ash, which moves you away from the faction stack. But if you think your ball-group of destro-ultis, earthgores, and negates is somehow more palatable form of zerging because you only run 16 instead of 24, you should listen to Publius and other people non EP say in zone chat sometime. And for every time you go on your own to the Western portion of the map, we all see you and your guild, Pact Milita raid 3, with other EP guilds.

If you want to throw rocks living in a glass house, that's your prerogative. Go ahead and console yourself that you and your guild are superior sportsmen and women because you restrain your ball-group size or the amount of times you'll stack with other EP guilds. Delude yourself if it helps you sleep at night. Keep telling yourself that when you had VE and BoD names on your death-recap, it was because we stacked together as our "standard method of play." But somehow when I had Drac and PM names on my death-recap, it was somehow fundamentally different, a rare occurrence. You're just as biased and blind as Frozn is.

For someone telling others not to try and hide or cry foul when people bring up their grievances, you are pretty lousy at following your own advice.

I do not deny I have done, do, and will continue to do things that *** people off playing this game. I generally try not to, but the way the game is designed, the way the map is laid out, the way the campaigns are scored and rewarded, and the low numbers of actual people PvPing mean there are times that I do, and some of these times happen because reasons. And when I do these crappy things, I own it, I admit it, I don't hide, I don't try to excuse it because other people do those crappy things more often. So don't accuse me of doing so just because you, Frozn, and so many other people on these forums who do just to assuage their egos.

@Drakkdjinn
See what Joy has done here is fall into the common trap of assuming their forum pvp opponents point of view in order to justify their own argument.
It's important when forum pvping that you always reread the posts with an unbiased view before you form an opinion.
More on how to forum pvp soon.

umagon

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Hi guys I think I'm lost: I'm looking for the pointless guild drama thread for crutch point PvP - right place?

It is more like things have turned into a discussion on who has the biggest ball group and when opposing ball groups make contact which one is the most dominant.

Agrippa_Invisus

umagon wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Hi guys I think I'm lost: I'm looking for the pointless guild drama thread for crutch point PvP - right place?

It is more like things have turned into a discussion on who has the biggest ball group and when opposing ball groups make contact which one is the most dominant.

It's like a watching a group of morbidly obese basset hounds attempting to play dominance games.

In the end no one wins, and everyone's exhausted.

Crown

.

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

In the end no one wins, and everyone's exhausted.

@Agrippa_Invisus I am VERY entertained... I consider that as winning!

Agrippa_Invisus

Crown wrote: »

.

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

In the end no one wins, and everyone's exhausted.

@Agrippa_Invisus I am VERY entertained... I consider that as winning!

Here's something I find infinitely more entertaining:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWah1ERzVks

pzschrek

Let's all take solace in the immortal words of REM:

"When your siege is long
And the Bridge
The Bridge is yours alone
When you're sure you've had enough
Of this lag
Well hang on
Don't let yourself go
'Cause everybody surfs

And EVERYBODY ZERRRRRRGS sometimes"

Drakkdjinn

umagon wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Hi guys I think I'm lost: I'm looking for the pointless guild drama thread for crutch point PvP - right place?

It is more like things have turned into a discussion on who has the biggest ball group and when opposing ball groups make contact which one is the most dominant.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Hi guys I think I'm lost: I'm looking for the pointless guild drama thread for crutch point PvP - right place?

No that thread got closed down unfortunately. This is how to defeat destro proxy tanks through use of forum pvp.

Yup sounds like the right spot, I'll put on my tinfoil hat and training wheels.

Rin_Senya

Joy_Division wrote: »

Whose trying to hide or call foul? Unlike you and Frozn, I am under no illusions or fantasies as to how this game is played, what the groups and guilds I am in have done. None, I have never denied it.

You're the one trying to set your guild apart and you'll grasp at any straw to do so. Your hypocrisy shows in that you have two different standards of counting numbers. You will not count any EP in your vicinity because they aren't in your group and not coordinating with you, and yet you do not apply this same standard to the guild that you fights - if any DC is anywhere near VE, then that is conscious factions tacking and why you so casually say we run with 40. And you say I'm trying to hide? What a joke.

I am not denying that you think it helps EP to go farm DC pugs at Nickel or backcap Ash, which moves you away from the faction stack. But if you think your ball-group of destro-ultis, earthgores, and negates is somehow more palatable form of zerging because you only run 16 instead of 24, you should listen to Publius and other people non EP say in zone chat sometime. And for every time you go on your own to the Western portion of the map, we all see you and your guild, Pact Milita raid 3, with other EP guilds.

If you want to throw rocks living in a glass house, that's your prerogative. Go ahead and console yourself that you and your guild are superior sportsmen and women because you restrain your ball-group size or the amount of times you'll stack with other EP guilds. Delude yourself if it helps you sleep at night. Keep telling yourself that when you had VE and BoD names on your death-recap, it was because we stacked together as our "standard method of play." But somehow when I had Drac and PM names on my death-recap, it was somehow fundamentally different, a rare occurrence. You're just as biased and blind as Frozn is.

For someone telling others not to try and hide or cry foul when people bring up their grievances, you are pretty lousy at following your own advice.

I do not deny I have done, do, and will continue to do things that *** people off playing this game. I generally try not to, but the way the game is designed, the way the map is laid out, the way the campaigns are scored and rewarded, and the low numbers of actual people PvPing mean there are times that I do, and some of these times happen because reasons. And when I do these crappy things, I own it, I admit it, I don't hide, I don't try to excuse it because other people do those crappy things more often. So don't accuse me of doing so just because you, Frozn, and so many other people on these forums who do just to assuage their egos.

After reading all of this I can just say that you completely missed the point of what Iza, Agrippa, Frozn, me and some other people here were saying. Maybe because you actually not interested in listening to other opinions? You sit on exactly the same "high horse" that you accuse people with. Defending your behaviours by constantly repeating the same phrases: "I am under no illusions or fantasies", "I do not deny I have done", "when I do these crappy things, I own it, I admit it, I don't hide, I don't try to excuse it" and "people on these forums who do just to assuage their egos". You can't even see that all this people that I mentioned above said multiple times that everyone zerg (including themselves) in this game from time to time - some people/guilds more, some less. Yet you still claiming that it's only you here not denying this fact or being under no illusions or fantasies. Now who is feeding their own egos here?

I'll just repeat Agrippa's point: some guilds put a lot more effort into 'destacking' the faction than others. That's the fact.

Ixtyr wrote: »

I mean, Vivec's Glademist has been claimed by "Dracvictus Kushlitia" for over a month for a reason. .

Ohhh I see how it works now! So Ash/Roe that has been claimed for "Fantasia made VE quit" is there for a reason too! Interesting fact Next lvl would be bringing here Camelot's keep claims as a legit argument in the discussion!

Agrippa_Invisus

Rin_Senya wrote: »

I'll just repeat Agrippa's point: some guilds put a lot more effort into 'destacking' the faction than others. That's the fact.

People complain about EP now. Imagine what it'd be like if Drac/IVS played as much as BoD or DomDom and then pushed the map with the regularity and the persistence that they did over just looking for fights or farming.

I mean, seriously, I've imagined it a few times, but I'm known to be far more map oriented than a lot of the other guild group members.

More often, though, the thought process behind where we go is either a) 'hey, looks like a good fight there, let's go have fun!' or b) "hey, we think we can instigate a good fight here, let's go pick one!'

But if Drac / IVS / PM and others were as awful as implied and constantly and frequently stacked together to push front line objectives with the coordinated back capping also needed sometimes?

Yeah. I think the score being as tight as it is currently is proof enough that this doesn't happen.

heystreethawk

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Whose trying to hide or call foul? Unlike you and Frozn, I am under no illusions or fantasies as to how this game is played, what the groups and guilds I am in have done. None, I have never denied it.

You're the one trying to set your guild apart and you'll grasp at any straw to do so. Your hypocrisy shows in that you have two different standards of counting numbers. You will not count any EP in your vicinity because they aren't in your group and not coordinating with you, and yet you do not apply this same standard to the guild that you fights - if any DC is anywhere near VE, then that is conscious factions tacking and why you so casually say we run with 40. And you say I'm trying to hide? What a joke.

I am not denying that you think it helps EP to go farm DC pugs at Nickel or backcap Ash, which moves you away from the faction stack. But if you think your ball-group of destro-ultis, earthgores, and negates is somehow more palatable form of zerging because you only run 16 instead of 24, you should listen to Publius and other people non EP say in zone chat sometime. And for every time you go on your own to the Western portion of the map, we all see you and your guild, Pact Milita raid 3, with other EP guilds.

If you want to throw rocks living in a glass house, that's your prerogative. Go ahead and console yourself that you and your guild are superior sportsmen and women because you restrain your ball-group size or the amount of times you'll stack with other EP guilds. Delude yourself if it helps you sleep at night. Keep telling yourself that when you had VE and BoD names on your death-recap, it was because we stacked together as our "standard method of play." But somehow when I had Drac and PM names on my death-recap, it was somehow fundamentally different, a rare occurrence. You're just as biased and blind as Frozn is.

For someone telling others not to try and hide or cry foul when people bring up their grievances, you are pretty lousy at following your own advice.

I do not deny I have done, do, and will continue to do things that *** people off playing this game. I generally try not to, but the way the game is designed, the way the map is laid out, the way the campaigns are scored and rewarded, and the low numbers of actual people PvPing mean there are times that I do, and some of these times happen because reasons. And when I do these crappy things, I own it, I admit it, I don't hide, I don't try to excuse it because other people do those crappy things more often. So don't accuse me of doing so just because you, Frozn, and so many other people on these forums who do just to assuage their egos.

Ixtyr wrote: »

I mean, Vivec's Glademist has been claimed by "Dracvictus Kushlitia" for over a month for a reason. .

Ohhh I see how it works now! So Ash/Roe that has been claimed for "Fantasia made VE quit" is there for a reason too! Interesting fact Next lvl would be bringing here Camelot's keep claims as a legit argument in the discussion!

Not that it's really the point, but since it came up, I'll note that someone with a really weird agenda will occasionally do one of those troll claims that makes it sound like we're trash-talking another guild. At least one of them was courtesy of a dude who was going around pretending to be Morgan from PM; I don't know if the Roe claim is from him or a copycat killer. People have strange priorities.

Joy_Division

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Whose trying to hide or call foul? Unlike you and Frozn, I am under no illusions or fantasies as to how this game is played, what the groups and guilds I am in have done. None, I have never denied it.

You're the one trying to set your guild apart and you'll grasp at any straw to do so. Your hypocrisy shows in that you have two different standards of counting numbers. You will not count any EP in your vicinity because they aren't in your group and not coordinating with you, and yet you do not apply this same standard to the guild that you fights - if any DC is anywhere near VE, then that is conscious factions tacking and why you so casually say we run with 40. And you say I'm trying to hide? What a joke.

I am not denying that you think it helps EP to go farm DC pugs at Nickel or backcap Ash, which moves you away from the faction stack. But if you think your ball-group of destro-ultis, earthgores, and negates is somehow more palatable form of zerging because you only run 16 instead of 24, you should listen to Publius and other people non EP say in zone chat sometime. And for every time you go on your own to the Western portion of the map, we all see you and your guild, Pact Milita raid 3, with other EP guilds.

If you want to throw rocks living in a glass house, that's your prerogative. Go ahead and console yourself that you and your guild are superior sportsmen and women because you restrain your ball-group size or the amount of times you'll stack with other EP guilds. Delude yourself if it helps you sleep at night. Keep telling yourself that when you had VE and BoD names on your death-recap, it was because we stacked together as our "standard method of play." But somehow when I had Drac and PM names on my death-recap, it was somehow fundamentally different, a rare occurrence. You're just as biased and blind as Frozn is.

For someone telling others not to try and hide or cry foul when people bring up their grievances, you are pretty lousy at following your own advice.

I do not deny I have done, do, and will continue to do things that *** people off playing this game. I generally try not to, but the way the game is designed, the way the map is laid out, the way the campaigns are scored and rewarded, and the low numbers of actual people PvPing mean there are times that I do, and some of these times happen because reasons. And when I do these crappy things, I own it, I admit it, I don't hide, I don't try to excuse it because other people do those crappy things more often. So don't accuse me of doing so just because you, Frozn, and so many other people on these forums who do just to assuage their egos.

After reading all of this I can just say that you completely missed the point of what Iza, Agrippa, Frozn, me and some other people here were saying. Maybe because you actually not interested in listening to other opinions? You sit on exactly the same "high horse" that you accuse people with. Defending your behaviours by constantly repeating the same phrases: "I am under no illusions or fantasies", "I do not deny I have done", "when I do these crappy things, I own it, I admit it, I don't hide, I don't try to excuse it" and "people on these forums who do just to assuage their egos". You can't even see that all this people that I mentioned above said multiple times that everyone zerg (including themselves) in this game from time to time - some people/guilds more, some less. Yet you still claiming that it's only you here not denying this fact or being under no illusions or fantasies. Now who is feeding their own egos here?

I'll just repeat Agrippa's point: some guilds put a lot more effort into 'destacking' the faction than others. That's the fact.

Ixtyr wrote: »

I mean, Vivec's Glademist has been claimed by "Dracvictus Kushlitia" for over a month for a reason. .

Ohhh I see how it works now! So Ash/Roe that has been claimed for "Fantasia made VE quit" is there for a reason too! Interesting fact Next lvl would be bringing here Camelot's keep claims as a legit argument in the discussion!

And while you, Iza, Agrippa, Frozn get to decide what is fact from what is fiction, some of you have no problem throwing in insults and lies such as VE runs with 40 and whose standard method of playing is to stack on guild that we dislike and who dislike us. It wasn't enough for to just present fact: those insults, those accusations had to be thrown in as well. You would never stand for it. Yet you expect us to quietly accept these insults as truth and get indignant when we dispute them that somehow we aren't interesting in listening to your perspectives..

But let's get to your precious point. Exactly how was it that you come to base this fact, and let's get down to the nitty gritty: who are these guilds that put a lot more effort into 'destacking' and which guilds are the worst offenders?

From the comments made by you, Iza, and Frozn, you would have me believe that the guilds that you are a part of put a lot of effort into 'destacking,' whereas VE and other DC guilds, NPK and BoD mentioned, routinely and deliberately stack together as standard method of playing?

You, Iza, and Frozn say that at in your voice coms that you try to avoid faction-stacks, go out and attack objectives away from map, and point to examples in Vivek's campaign cycle where you have done this. As for those times when you do stack, it's regrettable, it's necessary because of the map, it's something that has got to be done, it;s not representative of how you at least try to play. Am I right? What all this boils down to, though is a big fat "trust me." Because you are asking me to dismiss those times Drac and PM names are on my death recounts as not something you want to do, something you try not to do. It's a pretty big leap of faith, is is not?

But because I'm such an open-minded person and idealistic person, let's say that you are right in this respect.

Now how is it that you come to the conclusion that VE's behavior is fundamentally different, such that we routinely and deliberately stacked together with other guilds as standard method of playing? What exactly are you basing this on? Has Bulb, Steve, Zheg, or any VE officer told you this was guild policy and has this been confirmed by other VE members? Has Saramis, Harlock, or other DC guild leaders corroborated that they do in fact make is a stand procedure that they willingly stack with VE? If the answer to these questions is no, and correct me in assuming that is the answer, then that means your factual conclusion comes entirely from hearsay and anecdotal evidence gathered primarily from the perspective of a rival opposing guild. Not exactly trustworthy sources.

But let's go deeper. Somehow, someway, your, Iza, and Frozn's testimony is valid, trustworthy, truthful, and commensurate with reality. But the same testimony we offer is not. I can point to many, many times, and Vex had these on her streams, that our leads directed us away BoD, away from NPK, away from CN, away from all of that because of many reasons. Like yourselves, there were times we didn't want to trash the server. Sometime our raid leads saw a better strategy than the ones the other DC guilds were pursuing. But most of the time, it really was all about that we don't like those guilds and they don't like us. Hell, I remember more than one time Bulb deliberately did not go and assist them defending DC home keeps - when it clearly was the correct play on the map - because he deliberately wanted them to fail in order to teach them a lesson or something like that. For a long period of time, bulb actually had Saramis blocked; the notion that we routinely and willingly collaborated, let alone stacked, is laughable to anyone in either guild. You know there were many times VE, and only VE, would try to take back-keeps such as BRK or Arrius. And for whatever reason, the VE leads were fascinated with the prospect, again on their own, of back-capping Alessia. Were there times we were with 50 others at Chalman mine? Yep. Were there times just your guild was alone in a tower and in your death-recaps you have VE, BoD, NPK names? Yep. Somehow, though, this behavior is interpreted as the norm, whereas it is not in your case. Why the difference? Why the double-standard? Why do we have to trust and accept your testimony but you don't trust ours? Why is your perspective privileged?

You, Frozn, and Iza are basing your conclusion not on primary or even secondary sources, but from your own anecdotal recollections, something that is more than biased, it is flawed as memory is notoriously unreliable and subject to change over time. You and Frozn may believe in your heart or hearts that VE has had a significant number of stacking transgressions more than your own, but your basis for such a conclusion is based on untenable evidence. You have no way of counting and because the three of you are pretty much exclusively EP, you have zero comprehension exactly what goes in from the DC perspective. That you could casually and emphatically insist that guilds who have pretty much from day 1 disliked and in some case downright hated each other would stack together as a matter of standard procedure just show none of you have any insight into what motivates the DC guilds or why they do the things they do. Most of the times you don't see what the DC guilds are doing. Your perspectives are very much incomplete, so you fill in the gaps with your own biases to explain what's going on. In short, you perceive the worst in us because you are missing a great many facts and your negative reminiscences of those times VE and BoD members appeared in your death-recaps reinforce this (mis)perception.

You wonder if I am listening to others or actually interested in their opinions. The same can be said for you, Iza, and Frozn. All of you insist VE ran 40 and stacked with other guilds based on nothing we said. We don't even run anymore, but that doesn't stop the three of you from dragging our name in the mud to prove your "fact" that we engaged in reprehensible behavior that was fundamentally different, such that a stark distinction should be drawn between guilds trying to the the right thing - yours - and guilds that were/are the problem, ours. You have not considered our opinions or testimony as valid; instead you want to privilege your own beliefs and recollections, which comprise much of the basis for this fact that you so desperately want to believe.

frozywozy

Joy_Division wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Whose trying to hide or call foul? Unlike you and Frozn, I am under no illusions or fantasies as to how this game is played, what the groups and guilds I am in have done. None, I have never denied it.

You're the one trying to set your guild apart and you'll grasp at any straw to do so. Your hypocrisy shows in that you have two different standards of counting numbers. You will not count any EP in your vicinity because they aren't in your group and not coordinating with you, and yet you do not apply this same standard to the guild that you fights - if any DC is anywhere near VE, then that is conscious factions tacking and why you so casually say we run with 40. And you say I'm trying to hide? What a joke.

I am not denying that you think it helps EP to go farm DC pugs at Nickel or backcap Ash, which moves you away from the faction stack. But if you think your ball-group of destro-ultis, earthgores, and negates is somehow more palatable form of zerging because you only run 16 instead of 24, you should listen to Publius and other people non EP say in zone chat sometime. And for every time you go on your own to the Western portion of the map, we all see you and your guild, Pact Milita raid 3, with other EP guilds.

If you want to throw rocks living in a glass house, that's your prerogative. Go ahead and console yourself that you and your guild are superior sportsmen and women because you restrain your ball-group size or the amount of times you'll stack with other EP guilds. Delude yourself if it helps you sleep at night. Keep telling yourself that when you had VE and BoD names on your death-recap, it was because we stacked together as our "standard method of play." But somehow when I had Drac and PM names on my death-recap, it was somehow fundamentally different, a rare occurrence. You're just as biased and blind as Frozn is.

For someone telling others not to try and hide or cry foul when people bring up their grievances, you are pretty lousy at following your own advice.

I do not deny I have done, do, and will continue to do things that *** people off playing this game. I generally try not to, but the way the game is designed, the way the map is laid out, the way the campaigns are scored and rewarded, and the low numbers of actual people PvPing mean there are times that I do, and some of these times happen because reasons. And when I do these crappy things, I own it, I admit it, I don't hide, I don't try to excuse it because other people do those crappy things more often. So don't accuse me of doing so just because you, Frozn, and so many other people on these forums who do just to assuage their egos.

After reading all of this I can just say that you completely missed the point of what Iza, Agrippa, Frozn, me and some other people here were saying. Maybe because you actually not interested in listening to other opinions? You sit on exactly the same "high horse" that you accuse people with. Defending your behaviours by constantly repeating the same phrases: "I am under no illusions or fantasies", "I do not deny I have done", "when I do these crappy things, I own it, I admit it, I don't hide, I don't try to excuse it" and "people on these forums who do just to assuage their egos". You can't even see that all this people that I mentioned above said multiple times that everyone zerg (including themselves) in this game from time to time - some people/guilds more, some less. Yet you still claiming that it's only you here not denying this fact or being under no illusions or fantasies. Now who is feeding their own egos here?

I'll just repeat Agrippa's point: some guilds put a lot more effort into 'destacking' the faction than others. That's the fact.

Ixtyr wrote: »

I mean, Vivec's Glademist has been claimed by "Dracvictus Kushlitia" for over a month for a reason. .

Ohhh I see how it works now! So Ash/Roe that has been claimed for "Fantasia made VE quit" is there for a reason too! Interesting fact Next lvl would be bringing here Camelot's keep claims as a legit argument in the discussion!

And while you, Iza, Agrippa, Frozn get to decide what is fact from what is fiction, some of you have no problem throwing in insults and lies such as VE runs with 40 and whose standard method of playing is to stack on guild that we dislike and who dislike us. It wasn't enough for to just present fact: those insults, those accusations had to be thrown in as well. You would never stand for it. Yet you expect us to quietly accept these insults as truth and get indignant when we dispute them that somehow we aren't interesting in listening to your perspectives..

But let's get to your precious point. Exactly how was it that you come to base this fact, and let's get down to the nitty gritty: who are these guilds that put a lot more effort into 'destacking' and which guilds are the worst offenders?

From the comments made by you, Iza, and Frozn, you would have me believe that the guilds that you are a part of put a lot of effort into 'destacking,' whereas VE and other DC guilds, NPK and BoD mentioned, routinely and deliberately stack together as standard method of playing?

You, Iza, and Frozn say that at in your voice coms that you try to avoid faction-stacks, go out and attack objectives away from map, and point to examples in Vivek's campaign cycle where you have done this. As for those times when you do stack, it's regrettable, it's necessary because of the map, it's something that has got to be done, it;s not representative of how you at least try to play. Am I right? What all this boils down to, though is a big fat "trust me." Because you are asking me to dismiss those times Drac and PM names are on my death recounts as not something you want to do, something you try not to do. It's a pretty big leap of faith, is is not?

But because I'm such an open-minded person and idealistic person, let's say that you are right in this respect.

Now how is it that you come to the conclusion that VE's behavior is fundamentally different, such that we routinely and deliberately stacked together with other guilds as standard method of playing? What exactly are you basing this on? Has Bulb, Steve, Zheg, or any VE officer told you this was guild policy and has this been confirmed by other VE members? Has Saramis, Harlock, or other DC guild leaders corroborated that they do in fact make is a stand procedure that they willingly stack with VE? If the answer to these questions is no, and correct me in assuming that is the answer, then that means your factual conclusion comes entirely from hearsay and anecdotal evidence gathered primarily from the perspective of a rival opposing guild. Not exactly trustworthy sources.

But let's go deeper. Somehow, someway, your, Iza, and Frozn's testimony is valid, trustworthy, truthful, and commensurate with reality. But the same testimony we offer is not. I can point to many, many times, and Vex had these on her streams, that our leads directed us away BoD, away from NPK, away from CN, away from all of that because of many reasons. Like yourselves, there were times we didn't want to trash the server. Sometime our raid leads saw a better strategy than the ones the other DC guilds were pursuing. But most of the time, it really was all about that we don't like those guilds and they don't like us. Hell, I remember more than one time Bulb deliberately did not go and assist them defending DC home keeps - when it clearly was the correct play on the map - because he deliberately wanted them to fail in order to teach them a lesson or something like that. For a long period of time, bulb actually had Saramis blocked; the notion that we routinely and willingly collaborated, let alone stacked, is laughable to anyone in either guild. You know there were many times VE, and only VE, would try to take back-keeps such as BRK or Arrius. And for whatever reason, the VE leads were fascinated with the prospect, again on their own, of back-capping Alessia. Were there times we were with 50 others at Chalman mine? Yep. Were there times just your guild was alone in a tower and in your death-recaps you have VE, BoD, NPK names? Yep. Somehow, though, this behavior is interpreted as the norm, whereas it is not in your case. Why the difference? Why the double-standard? Why do we have to trust and accept your testimony but you don't trust ours? Why is your perspective privileged?

You, Frozn, and Iza are basing your conclusion not on primary or even secondary sources, but from your own anecdotal recollections, something that is more than biased, it is flawed as memory is notoriously unreliable and subject to change over time. You and Frozn may believe in your heart or hearts that VE has had a significant number of stacking transgressions more than your own, but your basis for such a conclusion is based on untenable evidence. You have no way of counting and because the three of you are pretty much exclusively EP, you have zero comprehension exactly what goes in from the DC perspective. That you could casually and emphatically insist that guilds who have pretty much from day 1 disliked and in some case downright hated each other would stack together as a matter of standard procedure just show none of you have any insight into what motivates the DC guilds or why they do the things they do. Most of the times you don't see what the DC guilds are doing. Your perspectives are very much incomplete, so you fill in the gaps with your own biases to explain what's going on. In short, you perceive the worst in us because you are missing a great many facts and your negative reminiscences of those times VE and BoD members appeared in your death-recaps reinforce this (mis)perception.

You wonder if I am listening to others or actually interested in their opinions. The same can be said for you, Iza, and Frozn. All of you insist VE ran 40 and stacked with other guilds based on nothing we said. We don't even run anymore, but that doesn't stop the three of you from dragging our name in the mud to prove your "fact" that we engaged in reprehensible behavior that was fundamentally different, such that a stark distinction should be drawn between guilds trying to the the right thing - yours - and guilds that were/are the problem, ours. You have not considered our opinions or testimony as valid; instead you want to privilege your own beliefs and recollections, which comprise much of the basis for this fact that you so desperately want to believe.

Good wording Joy. This is friday night and I'm having some wine. No way I'm spending anymore time debating with your political and romancing approach. I'll see you next monday. Try to enjoy some free time too bro.

Vilestride

-

Vilestride

Joy_Division wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Whose trying to hide or call foul? Unlike you and Frozn, I am under no illusions or fantasies as to how this game is played, what the groups and guilds I am in have done. None, I have never denied it.

You're the one trying to set your guild apart and you'll grasp at any straw to do so. Your hypocrisy shows in that you have two different standards of counting numbers. You will not count any EP in your vicinity because they aren't in your group and not coordinating with you, and yet you do not apply this same standard to the guild that you fights - if any DC is anywhere near VE, then that is conscious factions tacking and why you so casually say we run with 40. And you say I'm trying to hide? What a joke.

I am not denying that you think it helps EP to go farm DC pugs at Nickel or backcap Ash, which moves you away from the faction stack. But if you think your ball-group of destro-ultis, earthgores, and negates is somehow more palatable form of zerging because you only run 16 instead of 24, you should listen to Publius and other people non EP say in zone chat sometime. And for every time you go on your own to the Western portion of the map, we all see you and your guild, Pact Milita raid 3, with other EP guilds.

If you want to throw rocks living in a glass house, that's your prerogative. Go ahead and console yourself that you and your guild are superior sportsmen and women because you restrain your ball-group size or the amount of times you'll stack with other EP guilds. Delude yourself if it helps you sleep at night. Keep telling yourself that when you had VE and BoD names on your death-recap, it was because we stacked together as our "standard method of play." But somehow when I had Drac and PM names on my death-recap, it was somehow fundamentally different, a rare occurrence. You're just as biased and blind as Frozn is.

For someone telling others not to try and hide or cry foul when people bring up their grievances, you are pretty lousy at following your own advice.

I do not deny I have done, do, and will continue to do things that *** people off playing this game. I generally try not to, but the way the game is designed, the way the map is laid out, the way the campaigns are scored and rewarded, and the low numbers of actual people PvPing mean there are times that I do, and some of these times happen because reasons. And when I do these crappy things, I own it, I admit it, I don't hide, I don't try to excuse it because other people do those crappy things more often. So don't accuse me of doing so just because you, Frozn, and so many other people on these forums who do just to assuage their egos.

After reading all of this I can just say that you completely missed the point of what Iza, Agrippa, Frozn, me and some other people here were saying. Maybe because you actually not interested in listening to other opinions? You sit on exactly the same "high horse" that you accuse people with. Defending your behaviours by constantly repeating the same phrases: "I am under no illusions or fantasies", "I do not deny I have done", "when I do these crappy things, I own it, I admit it, I don't hide, I don't try to excuse it" and "people on these forums who do just to assuage their egos". You can't even see that all this people that I mentioned above said multiple times that everyone zerg (including themselves) in this game from time to time - some people/guilds more, some less. Yet you still claiming that it's only you here not denying this fact or being under no illusions or fantasies. Now who is feeding their own egos here?

I'll just repeat Agrippa's point: some guilds put a lot more effort into 'destacking' the faction than others. That's the fact.

Ixtyr wrote: »

I mean, Vivec's Glademist has been claimed by "Dracvictus Kushlitia" for over a month for a reason. .

Ohhh I see how it works now! So Ash/Roe that has been claimed for "Fantasia made VE quit" is there for a reason too! Interesting fact Next lvl would be bringing here Camelot's keep claims as a legit argument in the discussion!

And while you, Iza, Agrippa, Frozn get to decide what is fact from what is fiction, some of you have no problem throwing in insults and lies such as VE runs with 40 and whose standard method of playing is to stack on guild that we dislike and who dislike us. It wasn't enough for to just present fact: those insults, those accusations had to be thrown in as well. You would never stand for it. Yet you expect us to quietly accept these insults as truth and get indignant when we dispute them that somehow we aren't interesting in listening to your perspectives..

But let's get to your precious point. Exactly how was it that you come to base this fact, and let's get down to the nitty gritty: who are these guilds that put a lot more effort into 'destacking' and which guilds are the worst offenders?

From the comments made by you, Iza, and Frozn, you would have me believe that the guilds that you are a part of put a lot of effort into 'destacking,' whereas VE and other DC guilds, NPK and BoD mentioned, routinely and deliberately stack together as standard method of playing?

You, Iza, and Frozn say that at in your voice coms that you try to avoid faction-stacks, go out and attack objectives away from map, and point to examples in Vivek's campaign cycle where you have done this. As for those times when you do stack, it's regrettable, it's necessary because of the map, it's something that has got to be done, it;s not representative of how you at least try to play. Am I right? What all this boils down to, though is a big fat "trust me." Because you are asking me to dismiss those times Drac and PM names are on my death recounts as not something you want to do, something you try not to do. It's a pretty big leap of faith, is is not?

But because I'm such an open-minded person and idealistic person, let's say that you are right in this respect.

Now how is it that you come to the conclusion that VE's behavior is fundamentally different, such that we routinely and deliberately stacked together with other guilds as standard method of playing? What exactly are you basing this on? Has Bulb, Steve, Zheg, or any VE officer told you this was guild policy and has this been confirmed by other VE members? Has Saramis, Harlock, or other DC guild leaders corroborated that they do in fact make is a stand procedure that they willingly stack with VE? If the answer to these questions is no, and correct me in assuming that is the answer, then that means your factual conclusion comes entirely from hearsay and anecdotal evidence gathered primarily from the perspective of a rival opposing guild. Not exactly trustworthy sources.

But let's go deeper. Somehow, someway, your, Iza, and Frozn's testimony is valid, trustworthy, truthful, and commensurate with reality. But the same testimony we offer is not. I can point to many, many times, and Vex had these on her streams, that our leads directed us away BoD, away from NPK, away from CN, away from all of that because of many reasons. Like yourselves, there were times we didn't want to trash the server. Sometime our raid leads saw a better strategy than the ones the other DC guilds were pursuing. But most of the time, it really was all about that we don't like those guilds and they don't like us. Hell, I remember more than one time Bulb deliberately did not go and assist them defending DC home keeps - when it clearly was the correct play on the map - because he deliberately wanted them to fail in order to teach them a lesson or something like that. For a long period of time, bulb actually had Saramis blocked; the notion that we routinely and willingly collaborated, let alone stacked, is laughable to anyone in either guild. You know there were many times VE, and only VE, would try to take back-keeps such as BRK or Arrius. And for whatever reason, the VE leads were fascinated with the prospect, again on their own, of back-capping Alessia. Were there times we were with 50 others at Chalman mine? Yep. Were there times just your guild was alone in a tower and in your death-recaps you have VE, BoD, NPK names? Yep. Somehow, though, this behavior is interpreted as the norm, whereas it is not in your case. Why the difference? Why the double-standard? Why do we have to trust and accept your testimony but you don't trust ours? Why is your perspective privileged?

You, Frozn, and Iza are basing your conclusion not on primary or even secondary sources, but from your own anecdotal recollections, something that is more than biased, it is flawed as memory is notoriously unreliable and subject to change over time. You and Frozn may believe in your heart or hearts that VE has had a significant number of stacking transgressions more than your own, but your basis for such a conclusion is based on untenable evidence. You have no way of counting and because the three of you are pretty much exclusively EP, you have zero comprehension exactly what goes in from the DC perspective. That you could casually and emphatically insist that guilds who have pretty much from day 1 disliked and in some case downright hated each other would stack together as a matter of standard procedure just show none of you have any insight into what motivates the DC guilds or why they do the things they do. Most of the times you don't see what the DC guilds are doing. Your perspectives are very much incomplete, so you fill in the gaps with your own biases to explain what's going on. In short, you perceive the worst in us because you are missing a great many facts and your negative reminiscences of those times VE and BoD members appeared in your death-recaps reinforce this (mis)perception.

You wonder if I am listening to others or actually interested in their opinions. The same can be said for you, Iza, and Frozn. All of you insist VE ran 40 and stacked with other guilds based on nothing we said. We don't even run anymore, but that doesn't stop the three of you from dragging our name in the mud to prove your "fact" that we engaged in reprehensible behavior that was fundamentally different, such that a stark distinction should be drawn between guilds trying to the the right thing - yours - and guilds that were/are the problem, ours. You have not considered our opinions or testimony as valid; instead you want to privilege your own beliefs and recollections, which comprise much of the basis for this fact that you so desperately want to believe.

CN told me that PoD saw VE say they heard Animosity are actually the zergiest guild in game right now. Confirmed by faction mascots publius, iskra and toosk.

Glademist claim was well honoured today.

Sensitive satori's everywhere.

Rin_Senya

Joy_Division wrote: »

And while you, Iza, Agrippa, Frozn get to decide what is fact from what is fiction, some of you have no problem throwing in insults and lies such as VE runs with 40

Well I'm sorry that truth is so insulting for you. The majority of the areas we encountered VE is where DC faction is normally stacks and any intelligent player can tell you that this is the main fighting areas of DC (Aleswell -> Chal: Aleswell -> Roe) . As I said when you have a full 24 man raid stacking with a faction it's normally even more than 40 players, If you can't see and understand it - it's just you being delusional. Additionally the post was that VE run between 16 and 40, you could pick any number between these levels but you assume the upper.

Joy_Division wrote: »

It wasn't enough for to just present fact: those insults, those accusations had to be thrown in as well. You would never stand for it. Yet you expect us to quietly accept these insults as truth and get indignant when we dispute them that somehow we aren't interesting in listening to your perspectives.

You claim that "when you do crappy things, you own it, you admit it, you don't hide, you don't try to excuse” - yet you are so upset and pissed when someone mentions these "crappy things" and saying that it insulting you. Why?

Joy_Division wrote: »

But let's get to your precious point. Exactly how was it that you come to base this fact, and let's get down to the nitty gritty: who are these guilds that put a lot more effort into 'destacking' and which guilds are the worst offenders?

I'm not going to speak for other guilds, but as a Dracarys member I can tell you that we spent 80% of our raid time between DC and AD territory.
Btw I'm not saying we never fight at EP side of the map, ofc we do sometimes as every single guild in this game does. The question is how much time of your raid time you spend there. VE always used to claim that they "fight for the map/campaign" so ofc you guys were stacking with whole DC faction pushing for objectives. I understand this. What I don't understand is why you all get so triggered every single time someone mention this fact.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Because you are asking me to dismiss those times Drac and PM names are on my death recounts as not something you want to do, something you try not to do.

Well no. Excuse me but I'm not asking you anything at all. Did you missed my point again? I said in my previous comment that none of this guild is denying that they faction stack sometimes. Yet again you say for some reasons that we are saying we never stack, but VE does it all the time lol.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Now how is it that you come to the conclusion that VE's behavior is fundamentally different, such that we routinely and deliberately stacked together with other guilds as standard method of playing? What exactly are you basing this on? Has Bulb, Steve, Zheg, or any VE officer told you this was guild policy and has this been confirmed by other VE members?

So when I see VE 24 men zerg surfing the whole DC faction at Chalman for over an hour along with PoD, Arkadian and BoD etc etc running around them I have to /w any VE members to ask them is this your guild policy to be able to stack there like this? Ok, thanks for letting me know!

At the end of the day it's up on you guys to stay at Chalman when you see all these other people there as well. It's your choice where to go and what to do. And your choice was always stay and zerg this keep for whatever reason. Sit there for hours. Not leave when you see all these other guilds or DC numbers. I personally don't care at all if it's what makes you guys happy as I said. I repeat myself again - I don't understand why you are so triggered every single time when somebody mentions this fact. Feels like you are kinda ashamed of it. If so - why were you doing this?

Joy_Division wrote: »

You wonder if I am listening to others or actually interested in their opinions. The same can be said for you, Iza, and Frozn. All of you insist VE ran 40 and stacked with other guilds based on nothing we said.

If you think it's "all that we insist" then it simply means you actually not listened or understood what any of your opponents said. Currently you are very upset because of the phrase that "VE ran 40 man".

Joy_Division wrote: »

We don't even run anymore, but that doesn't stop the three of you from dragging our name in the mud to prove your "fact" that we engaged in reprehensible behavior that was fundamentally different

So now you deny that VE were faction stacking and zerg surfing DC with other guilds?
Or if you think that mentioning this fact is "mud" why were you doing this every single night when you had a raid regardless?

SaraMoonandStar

In my opinion the best way to defeat a ball group is to get together a bunch of friends and theorycraft and then try it out on the "ball group" until you stop dying.

Organized GVG's would go a long way to help people having trouble beating any "ball group". And the only guilds I have ever seen in 3 years of playing that actively seek out GVGs are Haxus and Drac. Jules was the person who organized the first GVG, and if you were there you know it was a fun time had by everyone regardless of outcome.

Any guild can make excuses, any guild can paint things in such a way that they are the best and everyone else is just "cheating". While that kind of thing is honestly super funny to read on the forums, and promotes interest in the game by riling people up, it doesn't actually determine the success of your guild.

Guild Pride is important, and I always try to stay away from making negative public comments about individuals or groups, because it helps the population of the game if people think they are doing extremely well (and its not nice to be mean). If I can make a lot of AP off of a guild that wants to think they are amazing and refuse to try something new, then yay for me.

If we had some sort of organized GVG event schedule then:
1. new and current players would have a method by which they can test out and practice group builds and ideas
2. it would foster a greater pvp community and possibly bring new players interested in group play
3. BE A SUPER FUN TIME !!!
4. allow some actual leader-board type rankings which are undeniable. I wont ever call out anybody or any guild, but many guilds refuse to GVG... and its doesnt make sense to me at all. If you want to soundly show people you can theory-craft a 12 man better than anyone else, GVGs are the forum in which to do so
5. give people even more fodder to complain on these forums and let me popcorn

The idea behind this thread was amazing, lets try and help people and bring people in. But the problem is, even if these tactics are sound, you wont really know how well they work unless you TEST them. And if you test them in open world conflicts then you wont be getting meaningful results because there are too many variables at play. If you can be sure of beating every other guild in an organized GVG then you can be sure you will be a threat in cyro.

Sara

IxSTALKERxI

SaraMoonandStar wrote: »

In my opinion the best way to defeat a ball group is to get together a bunch of friends and theorycraft and then try it out on the "ball group" until you stop dying.

Organized GVG's would go a long way to help people having trouble beating any "ball group". And the only guilds I have ever seen in 3 years of playing that actively seek out GVGs are Haxus and Drac. Jules was the person who organized the first GVG, and if you were there you know it was a fun time had by everyone regardless of outcome.

Any guild can make excuses, any guild can paint things in such a way that they are the best and everyone else is just "cheating". While that kind of thing is honestly super funny to read on the forums, and promotes interest in the game by riling people up, it doesn't actually determine the success of your guild.

Guild Pride is important, and I always try to stay away from making negative public comments about individuals or groups, because it helps the population of the game if people think they are doing extremely well (and its not nice to be mean). If I can make a lot of AP off of a guild that wants to think they are amazing and refuse to try something new, then yay for me.

If we had some sort of organized GVG event schedule then:
1. new and current players would have a method by which they can test out and practice group builds and ideas
2. it would foster a greater pvp community and possibly bring new players interested in group play
3. BE A SUPER FUN TIME !!!
4. allow some actual leader-board type rankings which are undeniable. I wont ever call out anybody or any guild, but many guilds refuse to GVG... and its doesnt make sense to me at all. If you want to soundly show people you can theory-craft a 12 man better than anyone else, GVGs are the forum in which to do so
5. give people even more fodder to complain on these forums and let me popcorn

The idea behind this thread was amazing, lets try and help people and bring people in. But the problem is, even if these tactics are sound, you wont really know how well they work unless you TEST them. And if you test them in open world conflicts then you wont be getting meaningful results because there are too many variables at play. If you can be sure of beating every other guild in an organized GVG then you can be sure you will be a threat in cyro.

Sara

I agree. I am actually interested in doing some GvG's atm (just started playing again this patch). Our setup / builds are different to everyone elses so would be interesting to see how well they perform. I havn't been able to get into any good fights with enemy guilds yet though. (6-8v8ish give or take with minimal outside interference) Think I've been playing at the wrong times.

Edit: also that GvG event was super fun.

maxjapank

Teabag them. Constantly. Especially their group leader. Send them rage tells. Call them noobs, zerglings, whatever. DO NOT BREAK TOS DOING THIS. Be the irritating little bug they want so badly to squash.

Not sure if I want to enter this thread, but is this really a thing? Sending rage tells as a form of war play? I just can't get behind encouraging the player base to send rage tells.

GrimJaw

@Satiar Psst. Steve. I gotta know. What was the other name bulb had picked out?

@SaraMoonandStar

SaraMoonandStar wrote: »

If I can make a lot of AP off of a guild that wants to think they are amazing and refuse to try something new, then yay for me.

LoL.

Joy_Division

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

And while you, Iza, Agrippa, Frozn get to decide what is fact from what is fiction, some of you have no problem throwing in insults and lies such as VE runs with 40

Well I'm sorry that truth is so insulting for you. The majority of the areas we encountered VE is where DC faction is normally stacks and any intelligent player can tell you that this is the main fighting areas of DC (Aleswell -> Chal: Aleswell -> Roe) . As I said when you have a full 24 man raid stacking with a faction it's normally even more than 40 players, If you can't see and understand it - it's just you being delusional. Additionally the post was that VE run between 16 and 40, you could pick any number between these levels but you assume the upper.

Joy_Division wrote: »

It wasn't enough for to just present fact: those insults, those accusations had to be thrown in as well. You would never stand for it. Yet you expect us to quietly accept these insults as truth and get indignant when we dispute them that somehow we aren't interesting in listening to your perspectives.

You claim that "when you do crappy things, you own it, you admit it, you don't hide, you don't try to excuse” - yet you are so upset and pissed when someone mentions these "crappy things" and saying that it insulting you. Why?

Joy_Division wrote: »

But let's get to your precious point. Exactly how was it that you come to base this fact, and let's get down to the nitty gritty: who are these guilds that put a lot more effort into 'destacking' and which guilds are the worst offenders?

I'm not going to speak for other guilds, but as a Dracarys member I can tell you that we spent 80% of our raid time between DC and AD territory.
Btw I'm not saying we never fight at EP side of the map, ofc we do sometimes as every single guild in this game does. The question is how much time of your raid time you spend there. VE always used to claim that they "fight for the map/campaign" so ofc you guys were stacking with whole DC faction pushing for objectives. I understand this. What I don't understand is why you all get so triggered every single time someone mention this fact.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Because you are asking me to dismiss those times Drac and PM names are on my death recounts as not something you want to do, something you try not to do.

Well no. Excuse me but I'm not asking you anything at all. Did you missed my point again? I said in my previous comment that none of this guild is denying that they faction stack sometimes. Yet again you say for some reasons that we are saying we never stack, but VE does it all the time lol.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Now how is it that you come to the conclusion that VE's behavior is fundamentally different, such that we routinely and deliberately stacked together with other guilds as standard method of playing? What exactly are you basing this on? Has Bulb, Steve, Zheg, or any VE officer told you this was guild policy and has this been confirmed by other VE members?

So when I see VE 24 men zerg surfing the whole DC faction at Chalman for over an hour along with PoD, Arkadian and BoD etc etc running around them I have to /w any VE members to ask them is this your guild policy to be able to stack there like this? Ok, thanks for letting me know!

At the end of the day it's up on you guys to stay at Chalman when you see all these other people there as well. It's your choice where to go and what to do. And your choice was always stay and zerg this keep for whatever reason. Sit there for hours. Not leave when you see all these other guilds or DC numbers. I personally don't care at all if it's what makes you guys happy as I said. I repeat myself again - I don't understand why you are so triggered every single time when somebody mentions this fact. Feels like you are kinda ashamed of it. If so - why were you doing this?

Joy_Division wrote: »

You wonder if I am listening to others or actually interested in their opinions. The same can be said for you, Iza, and Frozn. All of you insist VE ran 40 and stacked with other guilds based on nothing we said.

If you think it's "all that we insist" then it simply means you actually not listened or understood what any of your opponents said. Currently you are very upset because of the phrase that "VE ran 40 man".

Joy_Division wrote: »

We don't even run anymore, but that doesn't stop the three of you from dragging our name in the mud to prove your "fact" that we engaged in reprehensible behavior that was fundamentally different

So now you deny that VE were faction stacking and zerg surfing DC with other guilds?
Or if you think that mentioning this fact is "mud" why were you doing this every single night when you had a raid regardless?

We are upset that you apply double standards. When there are DC around us, we're running 40. When there are EP around you, you're running 16. Yet you accuse me of denial.

We are upset that you smugly take take the moral high ground while insulting us for engaging in the same behavior as you do.

We are upset that you base all of your conclusions on biased, self-serving memories while disputing our testimony. Yet you expect us to dismiss our biased, self-serving memories and accept yours as truth.

Go grind up a DC or AD and see what you and Frozn do from that perceptive before you so brazenly tout yourself up as an model ESO guild.

asneakybanana

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

SaraMoonandStar wrote: »

In my opinion the best way to defeat a ball group is to get together a bunch of friends and theorycraft and then try it out on the "ball group" until you stop dying.

Organized GVG's would go a long way to help people having trouble beating any "ball group". And the only guilds I have ever seen in 3 years of playing that actively seek out GVGs are Haxus and Drac. Jules was the person who organized the first GVG, and if you were there you know it was a fun time had by everyone regardless of outcome.

Any guild can make excuses, any guild can paint things in such a way that they are the best and everyone else is just "cheating". While that kind of thing is honestly super funny to read on the forums, and promotes interest in the game by riling people up, it doesn't actually determine the success of your guild.

Guild Pride is important, and I always try to stay away from making negative public comments about individuals or groups, because it helps the population of the game if people think they are doing extremely well (and its not nice to be mean). If I can make a lot of AP off of a guild that wants to think they are amazing and refuse to try something new, then yay for me.

If we had some sort of organized GVG event schedule then:
1. new and current players would have a method by which they can test out and practice group builds and ideas
2. it would foster a greater pvp community and possibly bring new players interested in group play
3. BE A SUPER FUN TIME !!!
4. allow some actual leader-board type rankings which are undeniable. I wont ever call out anybody or any guild, but many guilds refuse to GVG... and its doesnt make sense to me at all. If you want to soundly show people you can theory-craft a 12 man better than anyone else, GVGs are the forum in which to do so
5. give people even more fodder to complain on these forums and let me popcorn

The idea behind this thread was amazing, lets try and help people and bring people in. But the problem is, even if these tactics are sound, you wont really know how well they work unless you TEST them. And if you test them in open world conflicts then you wont be getting meaningful results because there are too many variables at play. If you can be sure of beating every other guild in an organized GVG then you can be sure you will be a threat in cyro.

Sara

I agree. I am actually interested in doing some GvG's atm (just started playing again this patch). Our setup / builds are different to everyone elses so would be interesting to see how well they perform. I havn't been able to get into any good fights with enemy guilds yet though. (6-8v8ish give or take with minimal outside interference) Think I've been playing at the wrong times.

Edit: also that GvG event was super fun.

Talk to animosity. Fairly sure they're looking for 6v6 gvgs.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Shaggygaming wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

And while you, Iza, Agrippa, Frozn get to decide what is fact from what is fiction, some of you have no problem throwing in insults and lies such as VE runs with 40

Well I'm sorry that truth is so insulting for you. The majority of the areas we encountered VE is where DC faction is normally stacks and any intelligent player can tell you that this is the main fighting areas of DC (Aleswell -> Chal: Aleswell -> Roe) . As I said when you have a full 24 man raid stacking with a faction it's normally even more than 40 players, If you can't see and understand it - it's just you being delusional. Additionally the post was that VE run between 16 and 40, you could pick any number between these levels but you assume the upper.

Joy_Division wrote: »

It wasn't enough for to just present fact: those insults, those accusations had to be thrown in as well. You would never stand for it. Yet you expect us to quietly accept these insults as truth and get indignant when we dispute them that somehow we aren't interesting in listening to your perspectives.

You claim that "when you do crappy things, you own it, you admit it, you don't hide, you don't try to excuse” - yet you are so upset and pissed when someone mentions these "crappy things" and saying that it insulting you. Why?

Joy_Division wrote: »

But let's get to your precious point. Exactly how was it that you come to base this fact, and let's get down to the nitty gritty: who are these guilds that put a lot more effort into 'destacking' and which guilds are the worst offenders?

I'm not going to speak for other guilds, but as a Dracarys member I can tell you that we spent 80% of our raid time between DC and AD territory.
Btw I'm not saying we never fight at EP side of the map, ofc we do sometimes as every single guild in this game does. The question is how much time of your raid time you spend there. VE always used to claim that they "fight for the map/campaign" so ofc you guys were stacking with whole DC faction pushing for objectives. I understand this. What I don't understand is why you all get so triggered every single time someone mention this fact.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Because you are asking me to dismiss those times Drac and PM names are on my death recounts as not something you want to do, something you try not to do.

Well no. Excuse me but I'm not asking you anything at all. Did you missed my point again? I said in my previous comment that none of this guild is denying that they faction stack sometimes. Yet again you say for some reasons that we are saying we never stack, but VE does it all the time lol.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Now how is it that you come to the conclusion that VE's behavior is fundamentally different, such that we routinely and deliberately stacked together with other guilds as standard method of playing? What exactly are you basing this on? Has Bulb, Steve, Zheg, or any VE officer told you this was guild policy and has this been confirmed by other VE members?

So when I see VE 24 men zerg surfing the whole DC faction at Chalman for over an hour along with PoD, Arkadian and BoD etc etc running around them I have to /w any VE members to ask them is this your guild policy to be able to stack there like this? Ok, thanks for letting me know!

At the end of the day it's up on you guys to stay at Chalman when you see all these other people there as well. It's your choice where to go and what to do. And your choice was always stay and zerg this keep for whatever reason. Sit there for hours. Not leave when you see all these other guilds or DC numbers. I personally don't care at all if it's what makes you guys happy as I said. I repeat myself again - I don't understand why you are so triggered every single time when somebody mentions this fact. Feels like you are kinda ashamed of it. If so - why were you doing this?

Joy_Division wrote: »

You wonder if I am listening to others or actually interested in their opinions. The same can be said for you, Iza, and Frozn. All of you insist VE ran 40 and stacked with other guilds based on nothing we said.

If you think it's "all that we insist" then it simply means you actually not listened or understood what any of your opponents said. Currently you are very upset because of the phrase that "VE ran 40 man".

Joy_Division wrote: »

We don't even run anymore, but that doesn't stop the three of you from dragging our name in the mud to prove your "fact" that we engaged in reprehensible behavior that was fundamentally different

So now you deny that VE were faction stacking and zerg surfing DC with other guilds?
Or if you think that mentioning this fact is "mud" why were you doing this every single night when you had a raid regardless?

We are upset that you apply double standards. When there are DC around us, we're running 40. When there are EP around you, you're running 16. Yet you accuse me of denial.

We are upset that you smugly take take the moral high ground while insulting us for engaging in the same behavior as you do.

We are upset that you base all of your conclusions on biased, self-serving memories while disputing our testimony. Yet you expect us to dismiss our biased, self-serving memories and accept yours as truth.

Go grind up a DC or AD and see what you and Frozn do from that perceptive before you so brazenly tout yourself up as an model ESO guild.

[snip]

Rudixy you are so quick to say people should respect you but never listed any accomplishments. I started IR with Crystalized which some say was one of the best guilds of their time. We use to follow TYSM around like nerds leeching AP then start our group after their raid ended. Eventually we were able to form our own group during prime time. Don't worry about listing your accomplishments I know you don't have any and I won't be around to read them.


And one more thing...

Currently Honouring the gladmist Claim. EP stacks are the best stacks.
Edited by Vilestride on November 3, 2017 10:05PM

You've been playing for 3 years and you can't spell a keep right? It is a keep not tupperware. Although that new glad tupperware I heard has stacks upon stacks upon stacks.You can put 50 in your cabinet or something.

EDIT: NVM I Guess thats another post of yours I can't quote any more...


Ok, I'll reply to you seeing as you appear to crave our attention.

Firstly Vile edited his reply at 4:24AM (He's AUS timezone). which means that you have been thinking about what to reply / typing for like 12h and still decided to include it (I assume you missed his edit in your haste to find some form of argument to string together). This behaviour is a little obsessive so you might want to consult someone about it.

On to the rest of your emotional outburst,

Lets look at your post history.
Happy Shaggy:

Shaggygaming wrote: »

Nice vids Drac!

Shaggygaming wrote: »

There are no best or strongest guilds in the game. I've been on both sides with IR, Nexus, Haxus, VE and the current state of the server will not allow us to know who is the best or strongest guild. I've been hit by Drac several times where I still have 70 FPS but nothing will register or allow me to use any abilities. I've also been on the other side where VE has hit me and I wasn't able to use any abilities. It happens to everyone and until we can actually use our abilities when we want them and play the game there will never be any best guilds.

Upset Shaggy:

Shaggygaming wrote: »

Abram wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

The biggest issue groups who cap their numbers face is honestly dealing with the blowback from all the people who don't make the cut.

Rekt

This confirms I made the right choice by turning down Solar's offer and joining VE. After the Nexus/Haxus fallout I saw this train wreck coming a mile away. Next year you'll be the same salty person with a new guild name.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ErefDIBa1uk

btw that post had perhaps one of my favorite responses of all time XD

manny254 wrote: »

Did you just try to talk *** to someone by posting a video of you outnumbering them with pugs and siege? While showing off the prime gameplay of pushing r and walking forward?

And now we have Rage mode Shaggy because I deleted you from friends. This is what the 8th rage post you've attempted?

I might be wrong but I don't think you have actually every been on Dracarys' TS, I don't think I gave it to you before I turned you down for a trial. Maybe once when Haxus' TS was broken before Dracarys was made.

As for the reply to Joy's comment, I'm sure Joy is more then capable of discussing with us. I personally have no intention of seriously replying to such a long post with so many misrepresentations of the truth in it.

Toxic to the community, hmmm ok. I'll let others be the judge of that but I'll never accept that creating a guild where people can play in a style and manor they wish to for a few nights a week and having a reasonable success rate is something toxic. Just because you didn't make it doesn't mean that its toxic to the community, just as not being allowed to drink at a bar isn't toxic if you're underage.

The thing with respected players is that they don't need to "list any accomplishments" or make signatures which include guilds they were on trial only for. Respect comes from other peoples view of what you do. I guess you didn't read the link I replied to you with before.

Now I know you had a rough night in your PVE discord but this isn't really any way to begin another day is it?

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Onto the topic of defeating ball groups, you should add stealth(ish) inc (like at glade door last night). Was very effective, especially when a group is rushing to defend an objective.

I have a clip of another example of it if you didn't make one from then:
@4m50s
https://youtu.be/wCl4WLDzvR0?t=4m50s

Elong

I've been playing DC the last week.

I've seen the same thing that I see from the years of playing EP: Everyone stacks at some point, all, everyone goes off on their own at some point, all 3 factions and all ball groups do this.

Everybody does it. It's not a big deal ffs. Bring your egos down guys and girls, there's no bonus points for the morale high ground, especially when everyone is as bad as eachother.

Minnesinger

Elong wrote: »

I've been playing DC the last week.

I've seen the same thing that I see from the years of playing EP: Everyone stacks at some point, all, everyone goes off on their own at some point, all 3 factions and all ball groups do this.

Everybody does it. It's not a big deal ffs. Bring your egos down guys and girls, there's no bonus points for the morale high ground, especially when everyone is as bad as eachother.

Good point! The funny thing is that everybody else but few EP have been saying the same here. Speak to them some sense in their thick skulls.

Rin_Senya

Joy_Division wrote: »

We are upset that you apply double standards. When there are DC around us, we're running 40. When there are EP around you, you're running 16. Yet you accuse me of denial.

Excuse me but no. None of Drac members ever denied that we zerg surf when we actually do so. Or that we are stacking with other guilds when it happens. Yet you claiming from your high horse that it's only you here having no illusions and getting 'upset' every single time someone say that VE were zerg surfing. You say you do not deny what you’ve done but slander that other people lie when they talk about the fact that your guild was faction stacking.

Joy_Division wrote: »

We are upset that you smugly take take the moral high ground while insulting us for engaging in the same behavior as you do.

First of all none of us said something insulting (it's not our problem that you think that saying someone ran between 16-40 is insulting and Its not our fault that you interpreted 16-40 as a range including only your guild members).
Secondary, If you want to look at real insults, perhaps you could take a look on what one of your guild members typed here (you need to catch a moment before mods delete his posts tho)? Or in this case you are ok standing on your own moral high ground enjoying your own double standards?

Joy_Division wrote: »

We are upset that you base all of your conclusions on biased, self-serving memories while disputing our testimony. Yet you expect us to dismiss our biased, self-serving memories and accept yours as truth.

Why do you think someone here expects anything from you? I didn't see anyone saying this. Everybody has their own truth and it's fine.
Also I disagree that every guild in the game behaves the same. As I said, all of them zergsurf from time to time but (and there is a reason why Agrippa said so) however some of them actually put more effort trying to unstack from other guilds and factions than others.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Go grind up a DC or AD and see what you and Frozn do from that perceptive before you so brazenly tout yourself up as an model ESO guild.

Thanks for the compliment I just want to add that none of us ever said that we are "model ESO guild" or something like "we are the best ESO PVP guild". I know that VE is know for saying this about themselves tho.