Can we have any answer to the state/vision of DKs?

lucky_Sage

lazerlaz wrote: »

You should try more than the meta sword and shield dk for pvp. My friend mains a magicka light armor dual sword resto staff dps dk in PVP. Hes not squishy, he hits hard as heck even against non vamps, and has great sustain. However, his biggest attribute is (drumroll please) SKILL.

DKs are definitely NOT forced into running sword and shield and ZOS knows it. That's why y'all's tears are ignored.

so you don't get 3 shot my a stamblade in light armor dw in cp yes its can be done non cp

idk

Wing wrote: »

I would really like some of that snare reduction like warden.

or even a snare immunity for some time added to a skill (wings)

I don't mind not being fast, but having the freedom to apply constant pressure would be nice, instead of being kited to death by everything

When they kite you chains and talons. Granted, I expect few use Cinder Storm morphs, but I believe DKs still have the best lock down in the game.

ezeepeezee

lucky_Sage wrote: »

lazerlaz wrote: »

You should try more than the meta sword and shield dk for pvp. My friend mains a magicka light armor dual sword resto staff dps dk in PVP. Hes not squishy, he hits hard as heck even against non vamps, and has great sustain. However, his biggest attribute is (drumroll please) SKILL.

DKs are definitely NOT forced into running sword and shield and ZOS knows it. That's why y'all's tears are ignored.

so you don't get 3 shot my a stamblade in light armor dw in cp yes its can be done non cp

Weighing a build against its risk of being instagibbed by a stamNB is ... well... it's why everyone runs heavy armor and s/b.

pieratsos

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

In a 1v1 you never reach the projectile limit. The duration is what can make it ridiculous. In open world you always reach the projectile limit. The duration is irrelevant. Thats why its useless. Shortening the duration and increasing the projectiles, buffs the skill overall but nerf it in 1v1. So why are even complaining?

Emma_Overload

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

I really wanted to know from where you guys take this statatics....
BTW... Mag nb can easily beat a mag dk even with wings just because a mag dk can't sustain wings for more than seconds without runing out of magicka... I've dueled an watched countless duels and most of the time mag nb wins over dks that uses wings....

And if you're pissed about scales... I think j you should know more about Wardens... They have better reflectives measured and I don't see anyone complaining...

The reason you don't hear as much complaining about Warden capabilities is because nobody except the people who actually run Wardens knows what's going on. Of course, the Wardens aren't going to beg for specific nerfs to their own class. The only thing victims of OP Wardens know to complain about is the goofy pigeon attack, mostly because it's so obvious!

Izaki

Kilandros wrote: »

They want DK to be a tank who holds block. As boring and one dimensional as that design is, they're clearly OK with it. See my sig.

From your sig: DK isn't just a tank class. Its the highest ST stamina DPS and the highest single target magicka DPS, both of which have the best sustain of all the classes and specs in PvE.

ToRelax

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

I really wanted to know from where you guys take this statatics....
BTW... Mag nb can easily beat a mag dk even with wings just because a mag dk can't sustain wings for more than seconds without runing out of magicka... I've dueled an watched countless duels and most of the time mag nb wins over dks that uses wings....

And if you're pissed about scales... I think j you should know more about Wardens... They have better reflectives measured and I don't see anyone complaining...

If you mean Crystallized Shield, that either deals no damage or not as much and has a limit on how much damage it can absorb iirc. It's generally more useful because it's cheaper to keep up and works on more projectiles, but you can't go that route with Scales if it continues to actually reflect stuff (well, assuming it does now, which isn't always the case).

Emma_Overload

ak_pvp wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno (since you have been active)

The entire core of the class has been taken away. The class that used to be able to hold its own and pressure opponents down. Despite being melee, it could hold its own, being able to pull people from anywhere, even keeps as a unique skill and a way to deal with ranged builds. Same with wings, strong but kept in check with cost. It could use ultimate as a refresher and despite no other methods of resource management, it was strong. The remaining defense, block, is continuously nerfed, with nothing given back, even though the meta tank builds strength comes from a variety of places. Then look to shields, still over performing with little sacrifice and no nerfs since 1t.

So here is a concise list of all its problems (outside of class design, its meant to be slower and DOTy)

Forced into vamp~Mist though trash is near necessary due to no other ways to desnare/move.

Wings ~ 2 common projectiles ignore it, some status effects go though, 2 limits, time and projectile. Projectile limit should be at least 4 per person, not good in multiple target fights, much worse than say cloak. Tack on snare removal+immunity and make it 4 per person and you have a balanced skill with decent counters and uptime vs cost.

Sustain ~ Ulti based sustain evens out to much worse than other classes, has been nerfed lots, and has no other sustain passives. Ironic for the outlive and slow burn class.

Survival ~ Forced into a boring block build which is being nerfed constantly, hurting run of the mill DKs a lot and the meta only mildly badly.

CCs ~ Petrify DK has dropped as one of the CC kings to a pleb. Our signature attack is now melee because its too strong, but sorcs have a copy with longer range. The morphs on it are eh too. The root morph was used for mid ranged attackers to force a 2x cc break, but now we can just talons them. And the damage/rng off balance from shattering is very underwhelming. Guess who is still not using stonefist.

CCs ~ Chains. Any reason they can't use it on certain heights, really hurts DKs usable remaining ranged counter. Or why the instant CC immunity, instead of maybe having it breakable free from?

They just aren't good anymore. I don't want a gapcloser, or expidition, or godlike damage, just the old pressure class that can deal with different scenarios without overstepping their boundaries. An AoE inferno (at least cauterize) would be nice, so would implosion, infiniwing or a purge. But I doubt we are getting it, so I ask, why is the core of DKs so hit?

Man, I wish I lived in this alternative universe where DKs were weak, because Cyrodiil (NA PC) ain't it.

DRAGON KNIGHTS ARE EVERYWHERE! They're all tanky AF, they all shrug off your hardest-hitting attacks, they root and CC you constantly, they circle behind you into some un-targetable blind spot so you can't hit them, whip you in the back so hard you have to keep spamming shields, and then, just when you think you can go on the offensive, they clobber you with their cheap-ass ultimate that is probably the hardest hitting in the game!

And then you know what DKs do? They come to the forums and complain about Sorc shields! GET OUTTA HERE!!!

Aedaryl

ak_pvp wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

Concealed or forcepulse. Fear, light attack weave to break it with minimal damage since it has a bad limit and set up will.* Wait it out because it's hard to keep up. Resto attack if desperate. Use it as buff time. Cloak and watch all DKs attacks fail or require them to aoe.

Disclaimer: I don't know if reflected light attacks count towards will.

So, the resto/destro magicka NB is playable because the spammable is swalow soul, because it's heal you, and because it's CHEAP. You are say I need to destroy the destro/resto gameplay to counter wings.

You guys are have just no idea what's balance is. I need 4s to do 4 light attacks. Wings last 6s. Each time a *** DK will spam wings, I wil not ne able to do damage for 6s, and don't tell me "use it as buff time" because wings are always refresh and sustainable.

Do you what it's mean ? He wll have free 6s window to attack me. I will forced to be in full defensive mode, spamming Dampen and healing ward and I will be OOM, not the DK.

You guys are bad player or desesparate to think a skill than can be up 100% and that reflect to you 100% of your damage is balanced.

If you want wings buff, give to NB a non reflectable swallow soul. So wings will be used with a brain to reflect criple, lights attacks, and assassin's will.

Balance is not making DK op, don't forget that guys.

Asmael

Emma_Overload wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno (since you have been active)

The entire core of the class has been taken away. The class that used to be able to hold its own and pressure opponents down. Despite being melee, it could hold its own, being able to pull people from anywhere, even keeps as a unique skill and a way to deal with ranged builds. Same with wings, strong but kept in check with cost. It could use ultimate as a refresher and despite no other methods of resource management, it was strong. The remaining defense, block, is continuously nerfed, with nothing given back, even though the meta tank builds strength comes from a variety of places. Then look to shields, still over performing with little sacrifice and no nerfs since 1t.

So here is a concise list of all its problems (outside of class design, its meant to be slower and DOTy)

Forced into vamp~Mist though trash is near necessary due to no other ways to desnare/move.

Wings ~ 2 common projectiles ignore it, some status effects go though, 2 limits, time and projectile. Projectile limit should be at least 4 per person, not good in multiple target fights, much worse than say cloak. Tack on snare removal+immunity and make it 4 per person and you have a balanced skill with decent counters and uptime vs cost.

Sustain ~ Ulti based sustain evens out to much worse than other classes, has been nerfed lots, and has no other sustain passives. Ironic for the outlive and slow burn class.

Survival ~ Forced into a boring block build which is being nerfed constantly, hurting run of the mill DKs a lot and the meta only mildly badly.

CCs ~ Petrify DK has dropped as one of the CC kings to a pleb. Our signature attack is now melee because its too strong, but sorcs have a copy with longer range. The morphs on it are eh too. The root morph was used for mid ranged attackers to force a 2x cc break, but now we can just talons them. And the damage/rng off balance from shattering is very underwhelming. Guess who is still not using stonefist.

CCs ~ Chains. Any reason they can't use it on certain heights, really hurts DKs usable remaining ranged counter. Or why the instant CC immunity, instead of maybe having it breakable free from?

They just aren't good anymore. I don't want a gapcloser, or expidition, or godlike damage, just the old pressure class that can deal with different scenarios without overstepping their boundaries. An AoE inferno (at least cauterize) would be nice, so would implosion, infiniwing or a purge. But I doubt we are getting it, so I ask, why is the core of DKs so hit?

Man, I wish I lived in this alternative universe where DKs were weak, because Cyrodiil (NA PC) ain't it.

DRAGON KNIGHTS ARE EVERYWHERE! They're all tanky AF, they all shrug off your hardest-hitting attacks, they root and CC you constantly, they circle behind you into some un-targetable blind spot so you can't hit them, whip you in the back so hard you have to keep spamming shields, and then, just when you think you can go on the offensive, they clobber you with their cheap-ass ultimate that is probably the hardest hitting in the game!

And then you know what DKs do? They come to the forums and complain about Sorc shields! GET OUTTA HERE!!!

"DKs are eveywhere".

No they are not. Those who are indeed here are useless tanks, here to help you generate ultimate, talk about being overpowered...



I happened to die 4 times to DKs, 2 being in outnumbered situations, 1 being because of a DC. This is what you call overpowered, this is what I called being underwhelming. But heh, maybe it's just me, so we'll use another source.

Here's your class distribution in Cyrodiil by popularity (top 100):

1. Sorcs (34)
2. NBs (24)
3. Templars (23)
4. DKs (12)
5. Wardens (7)

Now do the same on PC NA, and you'll realize that you are either blind of full of bias - maybe both, but if you think DKs are too strong, the issue is probably... you.

Aedaryl

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

I really wanted to know from where you guys take this statatics....
BTW... Mag nb can easily beat a mag dk even with wings just because a mag dk can't sustain wings for more than seconds without runing out of magicka... I've dueled an watched countless duels and most of the time mag nb wins over dks that uses wings....

And if you're pissed about scales... I think j you should know more about Wardens... They have better reflectives measured and I don't see anyone complaining...

DK is everywhere in EU PC, because DK is strong.

A dk that can't sustain wings is a bad dk. WIngs mean you don't need to cast defensve ability for 6s, and it's make you don't waste your mana.

Also you seen bad people dueling.

Warden shield is an other story, their shield doesn't reflect all your damage by adding it 35% more damage. You are not killing yourself agaisnt a warden.

Qbiken

Izaki wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

They want DK to be a tank who holds block. As boring and one dimensional as that design is, they're clearly OK with it. See my sig.

From your sig: DK isn't just a tank class. Its the highest ST stamina DPS and the highest single target magicka DPS, both of which have the best sustain of all the classes and specs in PvE.

MagDK, good sustain, good single target dps in PvE???? You´ve got to be joking right???

Kilandros

Izaki wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

They want DK to be a tank who holds block. As boring and one dimensional as that design is, they're clearly OK with it. See my sig.

From your sig: DK isn't just a tank class. Its the highest ST stamina DPS and the highest single target magicka DPS, both of which have the best sustain of all the classes and specs in PvE.

lol someone link this guy Gilliam's recent video on magicka DK

Here you go @Izaki https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=q5wWAB85iow

Please tell us more about the state of mDK in PvE

WillhelmBlack

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

There's very large amount of undodgeable, unreflectable and unblockable attacks available to all classes.

Kilandros

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

I really wanted to know from where you guys take this statatics....
BTW... Mag nb can easily beat a mag dk even with wings just because a mag dk can't sustain wings for more than seconds without runing out of magicka... I've dueled an watched countless duels and most of the time mag nb wins over dks that uses wings....

And if you're pissed about scales... I think j you should know more about Wardens... They have better reflectives measured and I don't see anyone complaining...

DK is everywhere in EU PC, because DK is strong.

A dk that can't sustain wings is a bad dk. WIngs mean you don't need to cast defensve ability for 6s, and it's make you don't waste your mana.

Also you seen bad people dueling.

Warden shield is an other story, their shield doesn't reflect all your damage by adding it 35% more damage. You are not killing yourself agaisnt a warden.

You aren't killing yourself against a DK either unless you're a bad.

krathos

I have a feeling the vast majority of people who see DK as some unkillable demi-god who can unleash a god-like wrath of damage on them are:

1) vampire
2) squishy squishy
3) haven't played DK before
4) are not experienced players

Unfortunately number 4 is who ZOS most caters to so that's why we continue to see these nerfs.

I main DK and play both mag and stam. I also play other classes with some regularity and when I am on those classes I have ZERO issue with DKs. They're basically irrelevant. Also DKs aren't anywhere, at least on PC-NA. The large organized guilds don't run them anymore. Solo players rarely run them. You will on occasion see a pug dk following the map zerg or one in small group play.

ak_pvp

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

Concealed or forcepulse. Fear, light attack weave to break it with minimal damage since it has a bad limit and set up will.* Wait it out because it's hard to keep up. Resto attack if desperate. Use it as buff time. Cloak and watch all DKs attacks fail or require them to aoe.

Disclaimer: I don't know if reflected light attacks count towards will.

So, the resto/destro magicka NB is playable because the spammable is swalow soul, because it's heal you, and because it's CHEAP. You are say I need to destroy the destro/resto gameplay to counter wings.

You guys are have just no idea what's balance is. I need 4s to do 4 light attacks. Wings last 6s. Each time a *** DK will spam wings, I wil not ne able to do damage for 6s, and don't tell me "use it as buff time" because wings are always refresh and sustainable.

Do you what it's mean ? He wll have free 6s window to attack me. I will forced to be in full defensive mode, spamming Dampen and healing ward and I will be OOM, not the DK.

You guys are bad player or desesparate to think a skill than can be up 100% and that reflect to you 100% of your damage is balanced.

If you want wings buff, give to NB a non reflectable swallow soul. So wings will be used with a brain to reflect criple, lights attacks, and assassin's will.

Balance is not making DK op, don't forget that guys.

Replying to both this, and your other comment.

DK cannot sustain wings outside of a pure 1v1, which is why I am saying make reflect PER PERSON. 3.5k every 6s is a massive magicka drain, it is much much more

DK is not everywhere in EU/PC. That is sorc or NB. It has been sorc or NB since the great DK nerf. Wings mean you don;t have to cast a defensive ability for 6s? AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHA

So a DK with it up is full offensive and doesn't need to cast anything else? Ok, no heals, no break free, no buffs. You say that like wings stops everything. Quite the contrary. And I gave many many options aside from swapping swallow soul. Resto attack. Break it with some light attacks. Cloak and make the DK unable to hit with NEARLY ANY attack. Fear and push them away because they are melee.

Unless you are a complete potato, you won't die to someone using wings 50% of the time. And if you weren't a complete potato against reading, people (me and a mention on gillams video) want it to be per person so it isn't zerged down instantly. Changing absolutely nothing to a 1v1 as on live. And the other change is a snare removal. Doesn't really only affect NBs, but since shuffle is gone, and mist is trash, it would be decent utility.

Aedaryl

ak_pvp wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

Concealed or forcepulse. Fear, light attack weave to break it with minimal damage since it has a bad limit and set up will.* Wait it out because it's hard to keep up. Resto attack if desperate. Use it as buff time. Cloak and watch all DKs attacks fail or require them to aoe.

Disclaimer: I don't know if reflected light attacks count towards will.

So, the resto/destro magicka NB is playable because the spammable is swalow soul, because it's heal you, and because it's CHEAP. You are say I need to destroy the destro/resto gameplay to counter wings.

You guys are have just no idea what's balance is. I need 4s to do 4 light attacks. Wings last 6s. Each time a *** DK will spam wings, I wil not ne able to do damage for 6s, and don't tell me "use it as buff time" because wings are always refresh and sustainable.

Do you what it's mean ? He wll have free 6s window to attack me. I will forced to be in full defensive mode, spamming Dampen and healing ward and I will be OOM, not the DK.

You guys are bad player or desesparate to think a skill than can be up 100% and that reflect to you 100% of your damage is balanced.

If you want wings buff, give to NB a non reflectable swallow soul. So wings will be used with a brain to reflect criple, lights attacks, and assassin's will.

Balance is not making DK op, don't forget that guys.

Replying to both this, and your other comment.

DK cannot sustain wings outside of a pure 1v1, which is why I am saying make reflect PER PERSON. 3.5k every 6s is a massive magicka drain, it is much much more

DK is not everywhere in EU/PC. That is sorc or NB. It has been sorc or NB since the great DK nerf. Wings mean you don;t have to cast a defensive ability for 6s? AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHA

So a DK with it up is full offensive and doesn't need to cast anything else? Ok, no heals, no break free, no buffs. You say that like wings stops everything. Quite the contrary. And I gave many many options aside from swapping swallow soul. Resto attack. Break it with some light attacks. Cloak and make the DK unable to hit with NEARLY ANY attack. Fear and push them away because they are melee.

Unless you are a complete potato, you won't die to someone using wings 50% of the time. And if you weren't a complete potato against reading, people (me and a mention on gillams video) want it to be per person so it isn't zerged down instantly. Changing absolutely nothing to a 1v1 as on live. And the other change is a snare removal. Doesn't really only affect NBs, but since shuffle is gone, and mist is trash, it would be decent utility.

If you make it reflect per person, it's mean you will make magicka NB useless agaisnt wings even outside a 1v1. Dk is everywhere, log on and go on vivec, you will see zerg of dk and templar everywhere.

In a 1v1, using wings agaisnt a magicka NB mean you don't have to heal you, because the magicka NB can't damage you, is it hard to understand ? No damage taken = no HP to heal. Since you said yourself wings are sustainable, breaking wings with light attacks just make the dk refreshing it after 4s, and 4s is the actual sustainable duration of wings in live. Accept it.Buffing wings without making swallow soul unreflectable is not acceptable and balanced. Wings are OP agaisnt magicka NB, I don't say it should be nerfed, but when you ask to a buff for a skill, you need to think about the overall balance. mNB are 100% countered by a dk skill, and no class should be 100% countered by a skill. Even a potato can understand that.

Aedaryl

Kilandros wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

I really wanted to know from where you guys take this statatics....
BTW... Mag nb can easily beat a mag dk even with wings just because a mag dk can't sustain wings for more than seconds without runing out of magicka... I've dueled an watched countless duels and most of the time mag nb wins over dks that uses wings....

And if you're pissed about scales... I think j you should know more about Wardens... They have better reflectives measured and I don't see anyone complaining...

DK is everywhere in EU PC, because DK is strong.

A dk that can't sustain wings is a bad dk. WIngs mean you don't need to cast defensve ability for 6s, and it's make you don't waste your mana.

Also you seen bad people dueling.

Warden shield is an other story, their shield doesn't reflect all your damage by adding it 35% more damage. You are not killing yourself agaisnt a warden.

You aren't killing yourself against a DK either unless you're a bad.

Tell me what a destro/resto magicka NB can do agaisnt a dk with wings ? light attack to break the wings ? 4 light attacks is 4s and it's the duration of wings in live and it's sustainable in 1v1. Even if you fear the DK and open a window of 1s when wings arent up, you will not 1 shot the dk.

Cripple, swallow soul, assassin's, flame reach, all of that suff using by magicka NB is reflectable. Sorc have force pulse and curse that bypass reflect. Magicka NB have nothing. Concealed weapon is far too expensive, and being melee agaisnt a DK is what you don't want. Force pulse is too expensive too and break the HOT of magicka NB.

Magicka NB have no counter to wings.

Give to magicka NB a counter to reflect then you can buff wings. Simple.

Qbiken

Aedaryl wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

I really wanted to know from where you guys take this statatics....
BTW... Mag nb can easily beat a mag dk even with wings just because a mag dk can't sustain wings for more than seconds without runing out of magicka... I've dueled an watched countless duels and most of the time mag nb wins over dks that uses wings....

And if you're pissed about scales... I think j you should know more about Wardens... They have better reflectives measured and I don't see anyone complaining...

DK is everywhere in EU PC, because DK is strong.

A dk that can't sustain wings is a bad dk. WIngs mean you don't need to cast defensve ability for 6s, and it's make you don't waste your mana.

Also you seen bad people dueling.

Warden shield is an other story, their shield doesn't reflect all your damage by adding it 35% more damage. You are not killing yourself agaisnt a warden.

You aren't killing yourself against a DK either unless you're a bad.

Tell me what a destro/resto magicka NB can do agaisnt a dk with wings ? light attack to break the wings ? 4 light attacks is 4s and it's the duration of wings in live and it's sustainable in 1v1. Even if you fear the DK and open a window of 1s when wings arent up, you will not 1 shot the dk.

Cripple, swallow soul, assassin's, flame reach, all of that suff using by magicka NB is reflectable. Sorc have force pulse and curse that bypass reflect. Magicka NB have nothing. Concealed weapon is far too expensive, and being melee agaisnt a DK is what you don't want. Force pulse is too expensive too and break the HOT of magicka NB.

Magicka NB have no counter to wings.

Give to magicka NB a counter to reflect then you can buff wings. Simple.

You don´t need a counter for something not being used.....

Kilandros

Aedaryl wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

I really wanted to know from where you guys take this statatics....
BTW... Mag nb can easily beat a mag dk even with wings just because a mag dk can't sustain wings for more than seconds without runing out of magicka... I've dueled an watched countless duels and most of the time mag nb wins over dks that uses wings....

And if you're pissed about scales... I think j you should know more about Wardens... They have better reflectives measured and I don't see anyone complaining...

DK is everywhere in EU PC, because DK is strong.

A dk that can't sustain wings is a bad dk. WIngs mean you don't need to cast defensve ability for 6s, and it's make you don't waste your mana.

Also you seen bad people dueling.

Warden shield is an other story, their shield doesn't reflect all your damage by adding it 35% more damage. You are not killing yourself agaisnt a warden.

You aren't killing yourself against a DK either unless you're a bad.

Tell me what a destro/resto magicka NB can do agaisnt a dk with wings ? light attack to break the wings ? 4 light attacks is 4s and it's the duration of wings in live and it's sustainable in 1v1. Even if you fear the DK and open a window of 1s when wings arent up, you will not 1 shot the dk.

Cripple, swallow soul, assassin's, flame reach, all of that suff using by magicka NB is reflectable. Sorc have force pulse and curse that bypass reflect. Magicka NB have nothing. Concealed weapon is far too expensive, and being melee agaisnt a DK is what you don't want. Force pulse is too expensive too and break the HOT of magicka NB.

Magicka NB have no counter to wings.

Give to magicka NB a counter to reflect then you can buff wings. Simple.

Sounds like a L2P issue if we're being honest. There are lots of excellent NB streamers who could show you a thing or two.

Aedaryl

Qbiken wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

I really wanted to know from where you guys take this statatics....
BTW... Mag nb can easily beat a mag dk even with wings just because a mag dk can't sustain wings for more than seconds without runing out of magicka... I've dueled an watched countless duels and most of the time mag nb wins over dks that uses wings....

And if you're pissed about scales... I think j you should know more about Wardens... They have better reflectives measured and I don't see anyone complaining...

DK is everywhere in EU PC, because DK is strong.

A dk that can't sustain wings is a bad dk. WIngs mean you don't need to cast defensve ability for 6s, and it's make you don't waste your mana.

Also you seen bad people dueling.

Warden shield is an other story, their shield doesn't reflect all your damage by adding it 35% more damage. You are not killing yourself agaisnt a warden.

You aren't killing yourself against a DK either unless you're a bad.

Tell me what a destro/resto magicka NB can do agaisnt a dk with wings ? light attack to break the wings ? 4 light attacks is 4s and it's the duration of wings in live and it's sustainable in 1v1. Even if you fear the DK and open a window of 1s when wings arent up, you will not 1 shot the dk.

Cripple, swallow soul, assassin's, flame reach, all of that suff using by magicka NB is reflectable. Sorc have force pulse and curse that bypass reflect. Magicka NB have nothing. Concealed weapon is far too expensive, and being melee agaisnt a DK is what you don't want. Force pulse is too expensive too and break the HOT of magicka NB.

Magicka NB have no counter to wings.

Give to magicka NB a counter to reflect then you can buff wings. Simple.

You don´t need a counter for something not being used.....

Wings are used in duel when the ennemy see you are a magicka NB, but well, it's not even why I ask for a counter.

They want their ability buffed and so being used for good reasons, that's why I say they also need to think about the overall balance. If wings became commons, the 0 counter of magicka NB will be a real problem.

Vesper_BR

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

I really wanted to know from where you guys take this statatics....
BTW... Mag nb can easily beat a mag dk even with wings just because a mag dk can't sustain wings for more than seconds without runing out of magicka... I've dueled an watched countless duels and most of the time mag nb wins over dks that uses wings....

And if you're pissed about scales... I think j you should know more about Wardens... They have better reflectives measured and I don't see anyone complaining...

DK is everywhere in EU PC, because DK is strong.

A dk that can't sustain wings is a bad dk. WIngs mean you don't need to cast defensve ability for 6s, and it's make you don't waste your mana.

Also you seen bad people dueling.

Warden shield is an other story, their shield doesn't reflect all your damage by adding it 35% more damage. You are not killing yourself agaisnt a warden.

Are you serious??? Lol

Aedaryl

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

I really wanted to know from where you guys take this statatics....
BTW... Mag nb can easily beat a mag dk even with wings just because a mag dk can't sustain wings for more than seconds without runing out of magicka... I've dueled an watched countless duels and most of the time mag nb wins over dks that uses wings....

And if you're pissed about scales... I think j you should know more about Wardens... They have better reflectives measured and I don't see anyone complaining...

DK is everywhere in EU PC, because DK is strong.

A dk that can't sustain wings is a bad dk. WIngs mean you don't need to cast defensve ability for 6s, and it's make you don't waste your mana.

Also you seen bad people dueling.

Warden shield is an other story, their shield doesn't reflect all your damage by adding it 35% more damage. You are not killing yourself agaisnt a warden.

Are you serious??? Lol

You can't argue with me because It's just true. You can't check how EU meta is because you are in Xbox one. People already said wings is sustainable in 1v1, if you make it per person, it will make mNB useless agaisnt dk in open world. And about the warden shield/wings, that's just how work the spells.

If you can't argue, don't post.

Kilandros

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

I really wanted to know from where you guys take this statatics....
BTW... Mag nb can easily beat a mag dk even with wings just because a mag dk can't sustain wings for more than seconds without runing out of magicka... I've dueled an watched countless duels and most of the time mag nb wins over dks that uses wings....

And if you're pissed about scales... I think j you should know more about Wardens... They have better reflectives measured and I don't see anyone complaining...

DK is everywhere in EU PC, because DK is strong.

A dk that can't sustain wings is a bad dk. WIngs mean you don't need to cast defensve ability for 6s, and it's make you don't waste your mana.

Also you seen bad people dueling.

Warden shield is an other story, their shield doesn't reflect all your damage by adding it 35% more damage. You are not killing yourself agaisnt a warden.

Are you serious??? Lol

You can't argue with me because It's just true. You can't check how EU meta is because you are in Xbox one. People already said wings is sustainable in 1v1, if you make it per person, it will make mNB useless agaisnt dk in open world. And about the warden shield/wings, that's just how work the spells.

If you can't argue, don't post.

Maybe you should take your own advice. You're just spamming nonsense in this and other threads. You clearly don't understand basic DK mechanics (or NB mechanics really, for that matter) so I don't know what you're hoping to accomplish. As others have pointed out, Wings costs ~4k which isn't sustainable at 4 reflects and doesn't reflect secondary effects (e.g., Major Defile from Lethal Arrow, the DoT from Poison Injection, Poisons). Those reasons alone are why the majority of DKs don't even run Wings anymore, rending your mostly senseless arguments moot.

So if you're having difficulty with the rare DK that actually does run Wings, I suggest you look inward to your own abilities instead of complaining here on the forums.

Vesper_BR

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

I really wanted to know from where you guys take this statatics....
BTW... Mag nb can easily beat a mag dk even with wings just because a mag dk can't sustain wings for more than seconds without runing out of magicka... I've dueled an watched countless duels and most of the time mag nb wins over dks that uses wings....

And if you're pissed about scales... I think j you should know more about Wardens... They have better reflectives measured and I don't see anyone complaining...

DK is everywhere in EU PC, because DK is strong.

A dk that can't sustain wings is a bad dk. WIngs mean you don't need to cast defensve ability for 6s, and it's make you don't waste your mana.

Also you seen bad people dueling.

Warden shield is an other story, their shield doesn't reflect all your damage by adding it 35% more damage. You are not killing yourself agaisnt a warden.

Are you serious??? Lol

You can't argue with me because It's just true. You can't check how EU meta is because you are in Xbox one. People already said wings is sustainable in 1v1, if you make it per person, it will make mNB useless agaisnt dk in open world. And about the warden shield/wings, that's just how work the spells.

If you can't argue, don't post.

I will not argue because i saw many other posts before me that shows how ridiculous is your thinking... I play as one mag nb and you probably don't have a magdk. I watch good players dueling and don't see that horrendous discrepancy you're saying....
I can only think that you're not good enough to make a build capable of using the tools at your disposal... You're the only one I see complaining.
Wings cost about 4k magicka and if you're smart enough you can outsustain a mag dk stacking from distance and getting closer with the bread and butter combo lotus + fear + incap + r.focus... you have most cheaper skills and enormous sustain with syphoning.
You can stay at range, whenever you want... You have cloack, you have crippling grasp... This is only enough to keep a mag dk at safe distance from you... And it's the best mag dot in game BTW.

And more... Mg ND runs harness magicka, with it you can have infinite sustain while fighting mag dks... One more?
9 on 10 MAG dks don't run reflective... If ones used against you, is because he knows that YOU can't beat him.

I play for long time, I have good mag dks friends, and it is well know that mg nb is one of the strongest counter to magdks...

Peace.

Aedaryl

Kilandros wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

I really wanted to know from where you guys take this statatics....
BTW... Mag nb can easily beat a mag dk even with wings just because a mag dk can't sustain wings for more than seconds without runing out of magicka... I've dueled an watched countless duels and most of the time mag nb wins over dks that uses wings....

And if you're pissed about scales... I think j you should know more about Wardens... They have better reflectives measured and I don't see anyone complaining...

DK is everywhere in EU PC, because DK is strong.

A dk that can't sustain wings is a bad dk. WIngs mean you don't need to cast defensve ability for 6s, and it's make you don't waste your mana.

Also you seen bad people dueling.

Warden shield is an other story, their shield doesn't reflect all your damage by adding it 35% more damage. You are not killing yourself agaisnt a warden.

Are you serious??? Lol

You can't argue with me because It's just true. You can't check how EU meta is because you are in Xbox one. People already said wings is sustainable in 1v1, if you make it per person, it will make mNB useless agaisnt dk in open world. And about the warden shield/wings, that's just how work the spells.

If you can't argue, don't post.

Maybe you should take your own advice. You're just spamming nonsense in this and other threads. You clearly don't understand basic DK mechanics (or NB mechanics really, for that matter) so I don't know what you're hoping to accomplish. As others have pointed out, Wings costs ~4k which isn't sustainable at 4 reflects and doesn't reflect secondary effects (e.g., Major Defile from Lethal Arrow, the DoT from Poison Injection, Poisons). Those reasons alone are why the majority of DKs don't even run Wings anymore, rending your mostly senseless arguments moot.

So if you're having difficulty with the rare DK that actually does run Wings, I suggest you look inward to your own abilities instead of complaining here on the forums.

You just proove how bad you are. I'm speaking about magicka NB and wings. Magicka NB doesn't have secondary effects that aren't reflected, so your point is just useless here. Also, Lethal Arrow, Poison injection are not used by magicka NB. And wings are sustainable in 1v1, like your friends said. This tread is about to buff the skill, I explain you need a counter to magicka NB.

Now, stop spamming non sense, and read what people write, don't speak about stamina skills when the point is wings balance agaisnt magicka NB.

Kilandros

Aedaryl wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

I really wanted to know from where you guys take this statatics....
BTW... Mag nb can easily beat a mag dk even with wings just because a mag dk can't sustain wings for more than seconds without runing out of magicka... I've dueled an watched countless duels and most of the time mag nb wins over dks that uses wings....

And if you're pissed about scales... I think j you should know more about Wardens... They have better reflectives measured and I don't see anyone complaining...

DK is everywhere in EU PC, because DK is strong.

A dk that can't sustain wings is a bad dk. WIngs mean you don't need to cast defensve ability for 6s, and it's make you don't waste your mana.

Also you seen bad people dueling.

Warden shield is an other story, their shield doesn't reflect all your damage by adding it 35% more damage. You are not killing yourself agaisnt a warden.

Are you serious??? Lol

You can't argue with me because It's just true. You can't check how EU meta is because you are in Xbox one. People already said wings is sustainable in 1v1, if you make it per person, it will make mNB useless agaisnt dk in open world. And about the warden shield/wings, that's just how work the spells.

If you can't argue, don't post.

Maybe you should take your own advice. You're just spamming nonsense in this and other threads. You clearly don't understand basic DK mechanics (or NB mechanics really, for that matter) so I don't know what you're hoping to accomplish. As others have pointed out, Wings costs ~4k which isn't sustainable at 4 reflects and doesn't reflect secondary effects (e.g., Major Defile from Lethal Arrow, the DoT from Poison Injection, Poisons). Those reasons alone are why the majority of DKs don't even run Wings anymore, rending your mostly senseless arguments moot.

So if you're having difficulty with the rare DK that actually does run Wings, I suggest you look inward to your own abilities instead of complaining here on the forums.

You just proove how bad you are. I'm speaking about magicka NB and wings. Magicka NB doesn't have secondary effects that aren't reflected, so your point is just useless here. Also, Lethal Arrow, Poison injection are not used by magicka NB. And wings are sustainable in 1v1, like your friends said. This tread is about to buff the skill, I explain you need a counter to magicka NB.

Now, stop spamming non sense, and read what people write, don't speak about stamina skills when the point is wings balance agaisnt magicka NB.

Google KenaPKK. Learn to NB. Stop posting in this thread. Cheers.

Vesper_BR

And I don't care about wings... I don't need reflective scales... I would be more happy if it was replaced with one skill tha actually help dks.
The way it is, it's pure garbage that's only fits dueling cheese players.

Aedaryl

Kilandros wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Vynn wrote: »

Good with everything except the 4 projectiles per person with reflect. Countering a literal zerg from range with one ability press every 3-6 seconds is overpowered. No one should be able to counter that many attacks from one ability press.

Same reason why the blocking calculation needs an adjustment.

Also want to add, there is a potential fix regarding the ranged abilities that don't reflect. Instead of reflecting, they should just deflect these abilities. Forces them into melee as the ability intends, isn't overpowered, increases counterplay without destroying uniqueness. Yahtzee.

Because zergbads are skilless and need counters. It doesn't over buff vs one person, but doesn't become null in a group.

Things like cloak doesn't have a hide limit.

Can you tell me what a resto destro magicka NB can do agaisnt Wings ?

Every spells are reflectable, and it's far to be balanced. You want to buff your class, the actual meta but you don't think about other class. Balance is over all the game, not Dk only.

You say Dk is weak, but it's very good in 1v1 and can tank a lot of player and even kill the noobest one. DK is not weak, that's why 30% of cyrodil run dk.

I really wanted to know from where you guys take this statatics....
BTW... Mag nb can easily beat a mag dk even with wings just because a mag dk can't sustain wings for more than seconds without runing out of magicka... I've dueled an watched countless duels and most of the time mag nb wins over dks that uses wings....

And if you're pissed about scales... I think j you should know more about Wardens... They have better reflectives measured and I don't see anyone complaining...

DK is everywhere in EU PC, because DK is strong.

A dk that can't sustain wings is a bad dk. WIngs mean you don't need to cast defensve ability for 6s, and it's make you don't waste your mana.

Also you seen bad people dueling.

Warden shield is an other story, their shield doesn't reflect all your damage by adding it 35% more damage. You are not killing yourself agaisnt a warden.

Are you serious??? Lol

You can't argue with me because It's just true. You can't check how EU meta is because you are in Xbox one. People already said wings is sustainable in 1v1, if you make it per person, it will make mNB useless agaisnt dk in open world. And about the warden shield/wings, that's just how work the spells.

If you can't argue, don't post.

Maybe you should take your own advice. You're just spamming nonsense in this and other threads. You clearly don't understand basic DK mechanics (or NB mechanics really, for that matter) so I don't know what you're hoping to accomplish. As others have pointed out, Wings costs ~4k which isn't sustainable at 4 reflects and doesn't reflect secondary effects (e.g., Major Defile from Lethal Arrow, the DoT from Poison Injection, Poisons). Those reasons alone are why the majority of DKs don't even run Wings anymore, rending your mostly senseless arguments moot.

So if you're having difficulty with the rare DK that actually does run Wings, I suggest you look inward to your own abilities instead of complaining here on the forums.

You just proove how bad you are. I'm speaking about magicka NB and wings. Magicka NB doesn't have secondary effects that aren't reflected, so your point is just useless here. Also, Lethal Arrow, Poison injection are not used by magicka NB. And wings are sustainable in 1v1, like your friends said. This tread is about to buff the skill, I explain you need a counter to magicka NB.

Now, stop spamming non sense, and read what people write, don't speak about stamina skills when the point is wings balance agaisnt magicka NB.

Google KenaPKK. Learn to NB. Stop posting in this thread. Cheers.

You seems so much confident Wings are balanced agaisnt magicka NB, link me the proof please

Cheers.