Trials used to be fun now it's like synchronized swimming with a dps test. No matter how good you are as a gamer you will only be as good as your weakest link and if someone screws up or is out of position the dominos come falling down.
Dps checks are stupid when only 3 builds can complete your test. Fix it and 99% of eso will no longer be scared to run trials again. Leave the leaderboards for the elite trial guilds.
After spending 500 hours in maw without beating the twins is when I say enough. Our group has the dance down so well but without high dps it actually gets harder because ads start to pile up.
Here's my argument the Twins fight is very mechanic heavy and to even get these mechanics down it takes time i mean alot of time with a completely new group. Most groups who can perform the dps test don't have to deal with 4 ads or at least don't have to kill them. They can just chain away from group while you burn the last 5%. So these groups who are really good actually have it easier because more dps equals less ad waves and less ads in general. So you get a group with a little less dps. They suffer because damage is lower, ads are harder to kill and you cram more down there throat.
It kinda reminds me of the credit industry. You know the more you have the lower your interest rate is and the easier payments are. Typically people with more dps get lower interest rates. Lmao
Horowonnoe wrote: »Trials used to be fun now it's like synchronized swimming with a dps test. No matter how good you are as a gamer you will only be as good as your weakest link and if someone screws up or is out of position the dominos come falling down.
Dps checks are stupid when only 3 builds can complete your test. Fix it and 99% of eso will no longer be scared to run trials again. Leave the leaderboards for the elite trial guilds.
After spending 500 hours in maw without beating the twins is when I say enough. Our group has the dance down so well but without high dps it actually gets harder because ads start to pile up.
Here's my argument the Twins fight is very mechanic heavy and to even get these mechanics down it takes time i mean alot of time with a completely new group. Most groups who can perform the dps test don't have to deal with 4 ads or at least don't have to kill them. They can just chain away from group while you burn the last 5%. So these groups who are really good actually have it easier because more dps equals less ad waves and less ads in general. So you get a group with a little less dps. They suffer because damage is lower, ads are harder to kill and you cram more down there throat.
It kinda reminds me of the credit industry. You know the more you have the lower your interest rate is and the easier payments are. Typically people with more dps get lower interest rates. Lmao
Well i mean, there are always normal trials.
Horowonnoe wrote: »Trials used to be fun now it's like synchronized swimming with a dps test. No matter how good you are as a gamer you will only be as good as your weakest link and if someone screws up or is out of position the dominos come falling down.
Dps checks are stupid when only 3 builds can complete your test. Fix it and 99% of eso will no longer be scared to run trials again. Leave the leaderboards for the elite trial guilds.
After spending 500 hours in maw without beating the twins is when I say enough. Our group has the dance down so well but without high dps it actually gets harder because ads start to pile up.
Here's my argument the Twins fight is very mechanic heavy and to even get these mechanics down it takes time i mean alot of time with a completely new group. Most groups who can perform the dps test don't have to deal with 4 ads or at least don't have to kill them. They can just chain away from group while you burn the last 5%. So these groups who are really good actually have it easier because more dps equals less ad waves and less ads in general. So you get a group with a little less dps. They suffer because damage is lower, ads are harder to kill and you cram more down there throat.
It kinda reminds me of the credit industry. You know the more you have the lower your interest rate is and the easier payments are. Typically people with more dps get lower interest rates. Lmao
Well i mean, there are always normal trials.
Lmao you mean 3 man with my buds na I'm over that.
Horowonnoe wrote: »Horowonnoe wrote: »Trials used to be fun now it's like synchronized swimming with a dps test. No matter how good you are as a gamer you will only be as good as your weakest link and if someone screws up or is out of position the dominos come falling down.
Dps checks are stupid when only 3 builds can complete your test. Fix it and 99% of eso will no longer be scared to run trials again. Leave the leaderboards for the elite trial guilds.
After spending 500 hours in maw without beating the twins is when I say enough. Our group has the dance down so well but without high dps it actually gets harder because ads start to pile up.
Here's my argument the Twins fight is very mechanic heavy and to even get these mechanics down it takes time i mean alot of time with a completely new group. Most groups who can perform the dps test don't have to deal with 4 ads or at least don't have to kill them. They can just chain away from group while you burn the last 5%. So these groups who are really good actually have it easier because more dps equals less ad waves and less ads in general. So you get a group with a little less dps. They suffer because damage is lower, ads are harder to kill and you cram more down there throat.
It kinda reminds me of the credit industry. You know the more you have the lower your interest rate is and the easier payments are. Typically people with more dps get lower interest rates. Lmao
Well i mean, there are always normal trials.
Lmao you mean 3 man with my buds na I'm over that.
If you can 3man normal trials with your buds, i find it hard to believe you can't clear vMoL twins in 500 hours of playtime. That's a LOT of twins right there O_o
Horowonnoe wrote: »Horowonnoe wrote: »Trials used to be fun now it's like synchronized swimming with a dps test. No matter how good you are as a gamer you will only be as good as your weakest link and if someone screws up or is out of position the dominos come falling down.
Dps checks are stupid when only 3 builds can complete your test. Fix it and 99% of eso will no longer be scared to run trials again. Leave the leaderboards for the elite trial guilds.
After spending 500 hours in maw without beating the twins is when I say enough. Our group has the dance down so well but without high dps it actually gets harder because ads start to pile up.
Here's my argument the Twins fight is very mechanic heavy and to even get these mechanics down it takes time i mean alot of time with a completely new group. Most groups who can perform the dps test don't have to deal with 4 ads or at least don't have to kill them. They can just chain away from group while you burn the last 5%. So these groups who are really good actually have it easier because more dps equals less ad waves and less ads in general. So you get a group with a little less dps. They suffer because damage is lower, ads are harder to kill and you cram more down there throat.
It kinda reminds me of the credit industry. You know the more you have the lower your interest rate is and the easier payments are. Typically people with more dps get lower interest rates. Lmao
Well i mean, there are always normal trials.
Lmao you mean 3 man with my buds na I'm over that.
If you can 3man normal trials with your buds, i find it hard to believe you can't clear vMoL twins in 500 hours of playtime. That's a LOT of twins right there O_o
especially if you have the mechanics down that well
Horowonnoe wrote: »Horowonnoe wrote: »Trials used to be fun now it's like synchronized swimming with a dps test. No matter how good you are as a gamer you will only be as good as your weakest link and if someone screws up or is out of position the dominos come falling down.
Dps checks are stupid when only 3 builds can complete your test. Fix it and 99% of eso will no longer be scared to run trials again. Leave the leaderboards for the elite trial guilds.
After spending 500 hours in maw without beating the twins is when I say enough. Our group has the dance down so well but without high dps it actually gets harder because ads start to pile up.
Here's my argument the Twins fight is very mechanic heavy and to even get these mechanics down it takes time i mean alot of time with a completely new group. Most groups who can perform the dps test don't have to deal with 4 ads or at least don't have to kill them. They can just chain away from group while you burn the last 5%. So these groups who are really good actually have it easier because more dps equals less ad waves and less ads in general. So you get a group with a little less dps. They suffer because damage is lower, ads are harder to kill and you cram more down there throat.
It kinda reminds me of the credit industry. You know the more you have the lower your interest rate is and the easier payments are. Typically people with more dps get lower interest rates. Lmao
Well i mean, there are always normal trials.
Lmao you mean 3 man with my buds na I'm over that.
If you can 3man normal trials with your buds, i find it hard to believe you can't clear vMoL twins in 500 hours of playtime. That's a LOT of twins right there O_o
especially if you have the mechanics down that well
Ya have them down to the T. But if new members want to join then what??? Then the next time more new members? Then what?
Putting on good sets does not make you good. So hitting 35k dps does not make you good either. It's called you put on a meta build and did an easy heavy attack rotation. Trust me I'm a prime example. I only tank trials I lead the trials and every blue moon I get to dps. So I have maybe dps 20 vet trials tops. I went and leveled up a stam dk and over night I was the hardest hitting member in our group. Rolling 45k on the warrior. On the other hand you have my 2 dps buds who have ran dps for my tank for 3 years. With the latest update there sorcs builds were trashed and now I double there dps. Like wtf?
So you tell me I'm more skilled at a dps role then them? NO I am not it's called meta build with unlimited sustain. So these dps test are stupid when you consider the sustain nerf with T1. If they make trials harder and and limit the number of builds that are effective in end game pve? The real test is mechanics not wearing the right set of armor. Don't get me wrong you need somewhat of a build to compete. But mechanics are everything and I would like to see that incorporated more than just dps test.
My point is why? Why so hard? Why would I ever want to learn another trial ever again? Used to be fun when progression was a thing. It is at a stand still and it's the only content left in the game left for me. Drives me nuts. I have built 2 additional toons basically for VMAW just for a completion but never get to use them because tbh no one in my group wants to bring another tank. Do you blame them? I guess I'm just ranting but honestly never been so mad at a game in my life. I think it's time to take a break. 1 more run for me. I'll give it my all.
My point is why? Why so hard? Why would I ever want to learn another trial ever again? Used to be fun when progression was a thing. It is at a stand still and it's the only content left in the game left for me. Drives me nuts. I have built 2 additional toons basically for VMAW just for a completion but never get to use them because tbh no one in my group wants to bring another tank. Do you blame them? I guess I'm just ranting but honestly never been so mad at a game in my life. I think it's time to take a break. 1 more run for me. I'll give it my all.
Horowonnoe wrote: »My point is why? Why so hard? Why would I ever want to learn another trial ever again? Used to be fun when progression was a thing. It is at a stand still and it's the only content left in the game left for me. Drives me nuts. I have built 2 additional toons basically for VMAW just for a completion but never get to use them because tbh no one in my group wants to bring another tank. Do you blame them? I guess I'm just ranting but honestly never been so mad at a game in my life. I think it's time to take a break. 1 more run for me. I'll give it my all.
As Liv3 said, your issue is not having a consistent group, not the difficulty of trials.
It seems the people you run with are what is causing your discontent. Have you tried running with different groups?
If you are a good tank, those are certainly in demand. Once someone finds out you tank, and tank well, you won't be able to fight off those trials invitations.
Are you on NA? Maybe join another trials guild?
Really I don't have the time to run in more than one trial guild we run twice a week 3 hours a run. Plus the guild that I run with is loyal and have been with for three years running trials. We used to be the guild that was top 10 leaderboards all the time when trials were a thing. But sadly many members have come and gone.
That's another thing why should i have to join another guild? The members who have stuck around for the longhaul should have completed this by now they have put the time the effort in to it. This game makes people elitist and destroy your moral compass with the way you have to tell people no sorry you only pull 23k dps you are no good to us anymore step your game up and come back. Or no sorry you don't have a sorc or a mdk goodbye. The members that stay loyal will always have a spot in my raids.
Really I don't have the time to run in more than one trial guild we run twice a week 3 hours a run. Plus the guild that I run with is loyal and have been with for three years running trials. We used to be the guild that was top 10 leaderboards all the time when trials were a thing. But sadly many members have come and gone.
That's another thing why should i have to join another guild? The members who have stuck around for the longhaul should have completed this by now they have put the time the effort in to it. This game makes people elitist and destroy your moral compass with the way you have to tell people no sorry you only pull 23k dps you are no good to us anymore step your game up and come back. Or no sorry you don't have a sorc or a mdk goodbye. The members that stay loyal will always have a spot in my raids.
Really I don't have the time to run in more than one trial guild we run twice a week 3 hours a run. Plus the guild that I run with is loyal and have been with for three years running trials. We used to be the guild that was top 10 leaderboards all the time when trials were a thing. But sadly many members have come and gone.
That's another thing why should i have to join another guild? The members who have stuck around for the longhaul should have completed this by now they have put the time the effort in to it. This game makes people elitist and destroy your moral compass with the way you have to tell people no sorry you only pull 23k dps you are no good to us anymore step your game up and come back. Or no sorry you don't have a sorc or a mdk goodbye. The members that stay loyal will always have a spot in my raids.
Really I don't have the time to run in more than one trial guild we run twice a week 3 hours a run. Plus the guild that I run with is loyal and have been with for three years running trials. We used to be the guild that was top 10 leaderboards all the time when trials were a thing. But sadly many members have come and gone.
That's another thing why should i have to join another guild? The members who have stuck around for the longhaul should have completed this by now they have put the time the effort in to it. This game makes people elitist and destroy your moral compass with the way you have to tell people no sorry you only pull 23k dps you are no good to us anymore step your game up and come back. Or no sorry you don't have a sorc or a mdk goodbye. The members that stay loyal will always have a spot in my raids.
You don't have to go kick anyone. If someone is pulling bad DPS, find out why. Sit them in front of a target dummy, and see what they're doing wrong. Bad choice of rotation? Missed weaves? Bad execution of rotation? Etc. If they are "loyal", then they'd want to put in the effort to help the team, and low DPS is a problem that can be fixed with effort and troubleshooting.
But for the twins fight in particular, yes, it is a very poorly-designed fight. I first started working on the twins last spring, right after Maw was released. We got past the first boss very quickly (we had killed it on the PTS), and then we were stuck on twins for the entire patch. And it wasn't just us. There was only one guild on PC/NA (the top competitive guild on the server) that managed to kill twins during the Thieves Guild patch, and I know at least a couple of guilds that fell apart because of the twins frustration. We tried all sorts of ***, like loading the group with 4 or 5 mDKs, but in the end, once the 4 add phase started, everything fell apart.
We became the third guild on PC/NA to clear vMoL. That happened at the end of June or start of July. And vMoL was released in March. So it took us months (and despite taking months, we were still the third on the server to do it), and the vast majority of that time was spent on twins--once we got to Rakkhat, it only took us a couple of weeks to get him down.
What eventually fixed it for us was higher DPS, partially enabled by the balance changes and power creep that the next patch enabled (as a point of reference, when Hodor got the world first vMoL speedrun, the best multi-target--not even single-target--DPS that they had on Rakkhat was about 32K, and now you'd see 60K). These days, the twins fight is "easy", in part because we refined our strats (doing a center burn on both bosses, not pulling the bosses too far apart, etc.) but in large part because DPS is miles ahead of where it used to be. But take away that power creep, and twins will quickly devolve back to the wipefest nightmare that it was. Not many people remember what vMoL was like when it was released, before the power creep. So twins is just fine, it's an easy fight, and you just have to git gud, etc. But really, it isn't--it's just that the flaws of the fight have been papered over by higher DPS and our complaints last year about the fight being cancerous are but a distant memory.
Content in this game has a certain content order inherent to it:
Normal Dungeons
Veteran Dungeons
Normal Craglorn Trials
Veteran Dungeons IC
Veteran Dungeons SotH & HotR HM
Veteran Maelstrom & Craglorn Trials w/o HM & nMoL & nHoF
Veteran Craglorn Trials HM
Veteran MoL & HoF w/o HM
Veterna MoL & HoF HM
You should master one content difficulty level before moving to the next. If you are able to beat al Craglorn trials on HM then it's time to move to vMoL. At least that's how I see it.
Should have stayed in CAE, we clear every week... couple times a night when we feel feisty .
Content in this game has a certain content order inherent to it:
Normal Dungeons
Veteran Dungeons
Normal Craglorn Trials
Veteran Dungeons IC
Veteran Dungeons SotH & HotR HM
Veteran Maelstrom & Craglorn Trials w/o HM & nMoL & nHoF
Veteran Craglorn Trials HM
Veteran MoL & HoF w/o HM
Veterna MoL & HoF HM
You should master one content difficulty level before moving to the next. If you are able to beat al Craglorn trials on HM then it's time to move to vMoL. At least that's how I see it.
Beat all craglorn hm trials 2 years ago. Beat Vdsa when I was V14 and cleared vet maelstrom with all 3 toons. 500k score on 2 mag dks.
You don't have to go kick anyone. If someone is pulling bad DPS, find out why. Sit them in front of a target dummy, and see what they're doing wrong. Bad choice of rotation? Missed weaves? Bad execution of rotation? Etc. If they are "loyal", then they'd want to put in the effort to help the team, and low DPS is a problem that can be fixed with effort and troubleshooting.Really I don't have the time to run in more than one trial guild we run twice a week 3 hours a run. Plus the guild that I run with is loyal and have been with for three years running trials. We used to be the guild that was top 10 leaderboards all the time when trials were a thing. But sadly many members have come and gone.
That's another thing why should i have to join another guild? The members who have stuck around for the longhaul should have completed this by now they have put the time the effort in to it. This game makes people elitist and destroy your moral compass with the way you have to tell people no sorry you only pull 23k dps you are no good to us anymore step your game up and come back. Or no sorry you don't have a sorc or a mdk goodbye. The members that stay loyal will always have a spot in my raids.
But for the twins fight in particular, yes, it is a very poorly-designed fight. I first started working on the twins last spring, right after Maw was released. We got past the first boss very quickly (we had killed it on the PTS), and then we were stuck on twins for the entire patch. And it wasn't just us. There was only one guild on PC/NA (the top competitive guild on the server) that managed to kill twins during the Thieves Guild patch, and I know at least a couple of guilds that fell apart because of the twins frustration. We tried all sorts of ***, like loading the group with 4 or 5 mDKs, but in the end, once the 4 add phase started, everything fell apart.
We became the third guild on PC/NA to clear vMoL. That happened at the end of June or start of July. And vMoL was released in March. So it took us months (and despite taking months, we were still the third on the server to do it), and the vast majority of that time was spent on twins--once we got to Rakkhat, it only took us a couple of weeks to get him down.
What eventually fixed it for us was higher DPS, partially enabled by the balance changes and power creep that the next patch enabled (as a point of reference, when Hodor got the world first vMoL speedrun, the best multi-target--not even single-target--DPS that they had on Rakkhat was about 32K, and now you'd see 60K). These days, the twins fight is "easy", in part because we refined our strats (doing a center burn on both bosses, not pulling the bosses too far apart, etc.) but in large part because DPS is miles ahead of where it used to be. But take away that power creep, and twins will quickly devolve back to the wipefest nightmare that it was. Not many people remember what vMoL was like when it was released, before the power creep. So twins is just fine, it's an easy fight, and you just have to git gud, etc. But really, it isn't--it's just that the flaws of the fight have been papered over by higher DPS and our complaints last year about the fight being cancerous are but a distant memory.
My point exactly. You were one of the first to clear now it is super easy for you to clear. So the 95% player base in this game that really struggle with dps suffers. We had this fight cleared and were progressing great. Both bosses under 5% then T1 hit with its sustain nerf. It was almost like we had to learn it all over again. If Zos decides too go this direction not very many players will stick around. Even the good players leave because you raised the ceiling so high that finding just the right group is next to impossible sometimes. Leaving you with little to no player base left to run these trials. Trust me we are already there i used to grab pug groups and smash on hard modes. Why? Because we had more dedidcated players addicted to running trials and players that worked builds. Now it's just dead.
Back when the entire AA HM trial was a 7 minute fight that everyone could waltz through with PUGs? When the first boss would die before you could even do a full rotation? Yea, that doesn't count. The rescaled vAA HM (not non-HM) is actually quite tough and is as much of a DPS check (if not more) than twins.Beat all craglorn hm trials 2 years ago.
Content in this game has a certain content order inherent to it:
Normal Dungeons
Veteran Dungeons
Normal Craglorn Trials
Veteran Dungeons IC
Veteran Dungeons SotH & HotR HM
Veteran Maelstrom & Craglorn Trials w/o HM & nMoL & nHoF
Veteran Craglorn Trials HM
Veteran MoL & HoF w/o HM
Veterna MoL & HoF HM
You should master one content difficulty level before moving to the next. If you are able to beat al Craglorn trials on HM then it's time to move to vMoL. At least that's how I see it.
Beat all craglorn hm trials 2 years ago. Beat Vdsa when I was V14 and cleared vet maelstrom with all 3 toons. 500k score on 2 mag dks.
2 years ago the Craglorn trials were VR14 while the players, all craftable and some of the dropped gear had already been upgraded to VR16/CP160. The Craglorn trials only got upgraded to CP160/VR16 last year: vSO in June, and the other 3 in October I think. They are much tougher now. vMoL took so much to master in march-june 2016 because people were used to the VR14 Craglorn trials and the jump from those was quite big. If you can beat vHRC and vAA HM consistently now (vSO is not noticeably harder with HM on) then vMoL will only take a bit more practice.
You don't have to go kick anyone. If someone is pulling bad DPS, find out why. Sit them in front of a target dummy, and see what they're doing wrong. Bad choice of rotation? Missed weaves? Bad execution of rotation? Etc. If they are "loyal", then they'd want to put in the effort to help the team, and low DPS is a problem that can be fixed with effort and troubleshooting.Really I don't have the time to run in more than one trial guild we run twice a week 3 hours a run. Plus the guild that I run with is loyal and have been with for three years running trials. We used to be the guild that was top 10 leaderboards all the time when trials were a thing. But sadly many members have come and gone.
That's another thing why should i have to join another guild? The members who have stuck around for the longhaul should have completed this by now they have put the time the effort in to it. This game makes people elitist and destroy your moral compass with the way you have to tell people no sorry you only pull 23k dps you are no good to us anymore step your game up and come back. Or no sorry you don't have a sorc or a mdk goodbye. The members that stay loyal will always have a spot in my raids.
But for the twins fight in particular, yes, it is a very poorly-designed fight. I first started working on the twins last spring, right after Maw was released. We got past the first boss very quickly (we had killed it on the PTS), and then we were stuck on twins for the entire patch. And it wasn't just us. There was only one guild on PC/NA (the top competitive guild on the server) that managed to kill twins during the Thieves Guild patch, and I know at least a couple of guilds that fell apart because of the twins frustration. We tried all sorts of ***, like loading the group with 4 or 5 mDKs, but in the end, once the 4 add phase started, everything fell apart.
We became the third guild on PC/NA to clear vMoL. That happened at the end of June or start of July. And vMoL was released in March. So it took us months (and despite taking months, we were still the third on the server to do it), and the vast majority of that time was spent on twins--once we got to Rakkhat, it only took us a couple of weeks to get him down.
What eventually fixed it for us was higher DPS, partially enabled by the balance changes and power creep that the next patch enabled (as a point of reference, when Hodor got the world first vMoL speedrun, the best multi-target--not even single-target--DPS that they had on Rakkhat was about 32K, and now you'd see 60K). These days, the twins fight is "easy", in part because we refined our strats (doing a center burn on both bosses, not pulling the bosses too far apart, etc.) but in large part because DPS is miles ahead of where it used to be. But take away that power creep, and twins will quickly devolve back to the wipefest nightmare that it was. Not many people remember what vMoL was like when it was released, before the power creep. So twins is just fine, it's an easy fight, and you just have to git gud, etc. But really, it isn't--it's just that the flaws of the fight have been papered over by higher DPS and our complaints last year about the fight being cancerous are but a distant memory.
My point exactly. You were one of the first to clear now it is super easy for you to clear. So the 95% player base in this game that really struggle with dps suffers. We had this fight cleared and were progressing great. Both bosses under 5% then T1 hit with its sustain nerf. It was almost like we had to learn it all over again. If Zos decides too go this direction not very many players will stick around. Even the good players leave because you raised the ceiling so high that finding just the right group is next to impossible sometimes. Leaving you with little to no player base left to run these trials. Trust me we are already there i used to grab pug groups and smash on hard modes. Why? Because we had more dedidcated players addicted to running trials and players that worked builds. Now it's just dead.
But you don't need to be elite in order to do DPS that's higher than what we were doing back in Spring 2016. When vMoL launched, the level of DPS needed to clear twins reliably was out of reach for most groups, but that is not the case any more.
When we were doing twins originally, total group DPS on that fight was well under 240K on the twins (Combat Metrics didn't exist back then, so I'm just estimating here). By the end of Homestead, we were looking at around 320K (though this is with an entirely different group of players since over a year had passed), and during Morrowind's launch week (so before we had a chance to adapt to Morrowind), it was 280K. Yes, Morrowind was a nerf initially and it's taken the community months and a shift to stam to get DPS back to pre-Morrowind levels, but even week-1 Morrowind DPS was stronger than Thieves Guild DPS.
Sit people down in front of dummies and troubleshoot DPS with them. Again, you don't need to be elite to do more than what groups were pulling in early 2016.
(I do agree that Morrowind was a piece of *** in the balance department, but that's another matter.)Back when the entire AA HM trial was a 7 minute fight that everyone could waltz through with PUGs? When the first boss would die before you could even do a full rotation? Yea, that doesn't count. The rescaled vAA HM (not non-HM) is actually quite tough and is as much of a DPS check (if not more) than twins.Beat all craglorn hm trials 2 years ago.
Should have stayed in CAE, we clear every week... couple times a night when we feel feisty .
I was happy to join your guild on the side until you told me that it's not a first come first serve if someone with a better parse shows up your out. This is the type of guild I avoid so it is what it is and that's why trials 2 years ago was in much greater demand.