Why is it okay 3years later that dk are the only tanks still?

mocap

So as Templar is best BoL spammer healer 3 years later.

Juhasow

phillyproduct wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

(Speaking of dungeons here, trials tanks need to be able to do whatever the trial requires of them, obviously.)

All you need to be a tank is to taunt the boss, hold aggro, and don't die.

Now to be a good tank, you need to taunt the boss, hold aggro, don't die, hold the boss more or less still, debuff the boss, buff the group, and provide crowd control.

Any class can manage that. Not with the same skills and gear, not in the same way, maybe not in the most optimized way possible, but every single class can manage everything that's needed to be a good tank in group dungeons, normal and vet.

Now, if you have some special preference or requirement, like you want a particular style or skill from your tanks, I suggest you keep a list of tanks that do that in your friend list and manually queue with them.


Now if you want to talk trials tanks, I think you need to clarify some things. Can classes other that DK not serve as tanks at all for trials? Or are they just not optimal? In either case, what are the requirements for being a trials tank that you feel that sorcs, nbs, templars, and wardens are all lacking in that DKs have better than all the rest to the point of pushing all other classes aside?

In trials nb sorc temp CANNOT coexist period.

Their has never been a trial group to ever beat a Vet trial with a nb and sorc tank or temp sorc or nb temp, you can and have seen every dps even weak classes complete raids however their is ZERO video evidence of nb sorc tank combination beating highest level vtrail's content.

And these developers dont care and the community has simply accepted it for some reason and im wondering why?

It's not truth it cannot coexist. People will just always choose best pick for any content they can go. You can beat any content without tank DK but dk simply allows to do it easier.

VaranisArano

Deyoz wrote: »

beacuse:

- the templar is the strongest heal
- the sorcerer can best survive (+AoEs)
- the nightblade got the biggest single target damage

and the dragonknight the best tank is.


It would also be unreallistic, in terms of the class description:

f.e.
Dragonknight: "The powerful Dragon Knight wield the power of fire to dish out serious amounts of damage. They are great in close quarters battles, but also have a skill tree that can be teched into, allowing them to tank enemies for your group. They can easily wield any weapon, so don't be surprised to see people running around with bows, swords or giant 2 handed weapons."

Nightblade: "The most dedicated DPS class in the game, the Nightblade allows players to deal large amounts of damage, while being heavily focused on stealth. No matter the skill tree you pick, you will always be able to deal tons of damage with this class. They are also great at soloing, and have very high sustain values thanks to their many skills that drain health, magicka and stamina from targets. Although a bow is an option, expect most Nightblades to be getting up close and personal with their foes." = tank?

http://www.ign.com/wikis/elder-scrolls-online/Classes

However, I do not want to say that other classes can not be a tank, it was more about the question why the dragonknight is the best tank

Like I said before, Dragonknights have a lot of skills that directly enable them to meet the job description of a tank. All other classes have class or weapon abilites that allow them to do the job of a tank in group dungeons as well. I've met wardens who are probably better tanks than my magDK. Nightblades, especially the nightblade sap tank, do just fine as tanks in group dungeons assuming they are built correctly and the player knows what they are doing.

The question at hand in this thread is whether or not there are requirements for trials tanks that only DKs and possibly Wardens can meet. (Can meet, not are optimal. We already know that DKs are the optimal choice or else they wouldn't dominate trial tanking.)

kylewwefan

VaranisArano wrote: »

Deyoz wrote: »

beacuse:

- the templar is the strongest heal
- the sorcerer can best survive (+AoEs)
- the nightblade got the biggest single target damage

and the dragonknight the best tank is.


It would also be unreallistic, in terms of the class description:

f.e.
Dragonknight: "The powerful Dragon Knight wield the power of fire to dish out serious amounts of damage. They are great in close quarters battles, but also have a skill tree that can be teched into, allowing them to tank enemies for your group. They can easily wield any weapon, so don't be surprised to see people running around with bows, swords or giant 2 handed weapons."

Nightblade: "The most dedicated DPS class in the game, the Nightblade allows players to deal large amounts of damage, while being heavily focused on stealth. No matter the skill tree you pick, you will always be able to deal tons of damage with this class. They are also great at soloing, and have very high sustain values thanks to their many skills that drain health, magicka and stamina from targets. Although a bow is an option, expect most Nightblades to be getting up close and personal with their foes." = tank?

http://www.ign.com/wikis/elder-scrolls-online/Classes

However, I do not want to say that other classes can not be a tank, it was more about the question why the dragonknight is the best tank

Like I said before, Dragonknights have a lot of skills that directly enable them to meet the job description of a tank. All other classes have class or weapon abilites that allow them to do the job of a tank in group dungeons as well. I've met wardens who are probably better tanks than my magDK. Nightblades, especially the nightblade sap tank, do just fine as tanks in group dungeons assuming they are built correctly and the player knows what they are doing.

The question at hand in this thread is whether or not there are requirements for trials tanks that only DKs and possibly Wardens can meet. (Can meet, not are optimal. We already know that DKs are the optimal choice or else they wouldn't dominate trial tanking.)

Permablock for long periods of time. No heavy attacks that would cause you to drop block. This is a requirement that all other classes fall short of.

DK Resource return from ultimate and converting magic to Stam while buffing the group is unparalleled.

Other classes can come close and work in heavy attacks but it is easier on a DK. It may only be certain couple few instances in the game where the permablock is required but this is why DK tank is king.

phillyproduct

Juhasow wrote: »

phillyproduct wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

(Speaking of dungeons here, trials tanks need to be able to do whatever the trial requires of them, obviously.)

All you need to be a tank is to taunt the boss, hold aggro, and don't die.

Now to be a good tank, you need to taunt the boss, hold aggro, don't die, hold the boss more or less still, debuff the boss, buff the group, and provide crowd control.

Any class can manage that. Not with the same skills and gear, not in the same way, maybe not in the most optimized way possible, but every single class can manage everything that's needed to be a good tank in group dungeons, normal and vet.

Now, if you have some special preference or requirement, like you want a particular style or skill from your tanks, I suggest you keep a list of tanks that do that in your friend list and manually queue with them.


Now if you want to talk trials tanks, I think you need to clarify some things. Can classes other that DK not serve as tanks at all for trials? Or are they just not optimal? In either case, what are the requirements for being a trials tank that you feel that sorcs, nbs, templars, and wardens are all lacking in that DKs have better than all the rest to the point of pushing all other classes aside?

In trials nb sorc temp CANNOT coexist period.

Their has never been a trial group to ever beat a Vet trial with a nb and sorc tank or temp sorc or nb temp, you can and have seen every dps even weak classes complete raids however their is ZERO video evidence of nb sorc tank combination beating highest level vtrail's content.

And these developers dont care and the community has simply accepted it for some reason and im wondering why?

It's not truth it cannot coexist. People will just always choose best pick for any content they can go. You can beat any content without tank DK but dk simply allows to do it easier.

Show proff plz. Can you post any vids of sorc nb tanking vhof?

phillyproduct

Deyoz wrote: »

beacuse:

- the templar is the strongest heal
- the sorcerer can best survive (+AoEs)
- the nightblade got the biggest single target damage

and the dragonknight the best tank is.


It would also be unreallistic, in terms of the class description:

f.e.
Dragonknight: "The powerful Dragon Knight wield the power of fire to dish out serious amounts of damage. They are great in close quarters battles, but also have a skill tree that can be teched into, allowing them to tank enemies for your group. They can easily wield any weapon, so don't be surprised to see people running around with bows, swords or giant 2 handed weapons."

Nightblade: "The most dedicated DPS class in the game, the Nightblade allows players to deal large amounts of damage, while being heavily focused on stealth. No matter the skill tree you pick, you will always be able to deal tons of damage with this class. They are also great at soloing, and have very high sustain values thanks to their many skills that drain health, magicka and stamina from targets. Although a bow is an option, expect most Nightblades to be getting up close and personal with their foes." = tank?

http://www.ign.com/wikis/elder-scrolls-online/Classes

However, I do not want to say that other classes can not be a tank, it was more about the question why the dragonknight is the best tank

Deyoz wrote: »

beacuse:

- the templar is the strongest heal
- the sorcerer can best survive (+AoEs)
- the nightblade got the biggest single target damage

and the dragonknight the best tank is.


It would also be unreallistic, in terms of the class description:

f.e.
Dragonknight: "The powerful Dragon Knight wield the power of fire to dish out serious amounts of damage. They are great in close quarters battles, but also have a skill tree that can be teched into, allowing them to tank enemies for your group. They can easily wield any weapon, so don't be surprised to see people running around with bows, swords or giant 2 handed weapons."

Nightblade: "The most dedicated DPS class in the game, the Nightblade allows players to deal large amounts of damage, while being heavily focused on stealth. No matter the skill tree you pick, you will always be able to deal tons of damage with this class. They are also great at soloing, and have very high sustain values thanks to their many skills that drain health, magicka and stamina from targets. Although a bow is an option, expect most Nightblades to be getting up close and personal with their foes." = tank?

http://www.ign.com/wikis/elder-scrolls-online/Classes

However, I do not want to say that other classes can not be a tank, it was more about the question why the dragonknight is the best tank

Then why would zos give us tools to play other roles? Why would zos tell us to play as we want and why would zos over the last 2years buff and nerf class abilities to bring them more inline with each other if they dont want certain classes 2 do certain things?

Nb sorc temp need tank buff to bring them inline with dk and warden.

Dk stam is on par with every other stam dk magic needs buff but their was times when dk, stam magic and tank was top of the food chain at everything except healing.

Juhasow

phillyproduct wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

phillyproduct wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

(Speaking of dungeons here, trials tanks need to be able to do whatever the trial requires of them, obviously.)

All you need to be a tank is to taunt the boss, hold aggro, and don't die.

Now to be a good tank, you need to taunt the boss, hold aggro, don't die, hold the boss more or less still, debuff the boss, buff the group, and provide crowd control.

Any class can manage that. Not with the same skills and gear, not in the same way, maybe not in the most optimized way possible, but every single class can manage everything that's needed to be a good tank in group dungeons, normal and vet.

Now, if you have some special preference or requirement, like you want a particular style or skill from your tanks, I suggest you keep a list of tanks that do that in your friend list and manually queue with them.


Now if you want to talk trials tanks, I think you need to clarify some things. Can classes other that DK not serve as tanks at all for trials? Or are they just not optimal? In either case, what are the requirements for being a trials tank that you feel that sorcs, nbs, templars, and wardens are all lacking in that DKs have better than all the rest to the point of pushing all other classes aside?

In trials nb sorc temp CANNOT coexist period.

Their has never been a trial group to ever beat a Vet trial with a nb and sorc tank or temp sorc or nb temp, you can and have seen every dps even weak classes complete raids however their is ZERO video evidence of nb sorc tank combination beating highest level vtrail's content.

And these developers dont care and the community has simply accepted it for some reason and im wondering why?

It's not truth it cannot coexist. People will just always choose best pick for any content they can go. You can beat any content without tank DK but dk simply allows to do it easier.

Show proff plz. Can you post any vids of sorc nb tanking vhof?

And can You show a proff it isnt possible ?

Zinaroth

Juhasow wrote: »

phillyproduct wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

phillyproduct wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

(Speaking of dungeons here, trials tanks need to be able to do whatever the trial requires of them, obviously.)

All you need to be a tank is to taunt the boss, hold aggro, and don't die.

Now to be a good tank, you need to taunt the boss, hold aggro, don't die, hold the boss more or less still, debuff the boss, buff the group, and provide crowd control.

Any class can manage that. Not with the same skills and gear, not in the same way, maybe not in the most optimized way possible, but every single class can manage everything that's needed to be a good tank in group dungeons, normal and vet.

Now, if you have some special preference or requirement, like you want a particular style or skill from your tanks, I suggest you keep a list of tanks that do that in your friend list and manually queue with them.


Now if you want to talk trials tanks, I think you need to clarify some things. Can classes other that DK not serve as tanks at all for trials? Or are they just not optimal? In either case, what are the requirements for being a trials tank that you feel that sorcs, nbs, templars, and wardens are all lacking in that DKs have better than all the rest to the point of pushing all other classes aside?

In trials nb sorc temp CANNOT coexist period.

Their has never been a trial group to ever beat a Vet trial with a nb and sorc tank or temp sorc or nb temp, you can and have seen every dps even weak classes complete raids however their is ZERO video evidence of nb sorc tank combination beating highest level vtrail's content.

And these developers dont care and the community has simply accepted it for some reason and im wondering why?

It's not truth it cannot coexist. People will just always choose best pick for any content they can go. You can beat any content without tank DK but dk simply allows to do it easier.

Show proff plz. Can you post any vids of sorc nb tanking vhof?

And can You show a proff it isnt possible ?

Burden of evidence rests on the person making the claim.

Toc de Malsvi

Juhasow wrote: »

phillyproduct wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

(Speaking of dungeons here, trials tanks need to be able to do whatever the trial requires of them, obviously.)

All you need to be a tank is to taunt the boss, hold aggro, and don't die.

Now to be a good tank, you need to taunt the boss, hold aggro, don't die, hold the boss more or less still, debuff the boss, buff the group, and provide crowd control.

Any class can manage that. Not with the same skills and gear, not in the same way, maybe not in the most optimized way possible, but every single class can manage everything that's needed to be a good tank in group dungeons, normal and vet.

Now, if you have some special preference or requirement, like you want a particular style or skill from your tanks, I suggest you keep a list of tanks that do that in your friend list and manually queue with them.


Now if you want to talk trials tanks, I think you need to clarify some things. Can classes other that DK not serve as tanks at all for trials? Or are they just not optimal? In either case, what are the requirements for being a trials tank that you feel that sorcs, nbs, templars, and wardens are all lacking in that DKs have better than all the rest to the point of pushing all other classes aside?

In trials nb sorc temp CANNOT coexist period.

Their has never been a trial group to ever beat a Vet trial with a nb and sorc tank or temp sorc or nb temp, you can and have seen every dps even weak classes complete raids however their is ZERO video evidence of nb sorc tank combination beating highest level vtrail's content.

And these developers dont care and the community has simply accepted it for some reason and im wondering why?

It's not truth it cannot coexist. People will just always choose best pick for any content they can go. You can beat any content without tank DK but dk simply allows to do it easier.

^This.

Same reason why everyone is pulling hard for Stam DK dps right now and they were all pushing for Mag Sorc's 8 months ago. Most of these groups aren't looking for what is possible or even preferable, they are looking for what is easiest. If you want to stick with the meta you need to have all classes all specs leveled and a large variety of gear.

Specifically as to why DK's are favored has to do with the design of DK's which makes them arguably easier to tank on. That is just part of the base core design of DK's.

iam117

i have completed vmol on every class as a tank? havent had the opportunity to do vhof though as a tank

code65536

You know what's going to happen when you press this case? They're going to nerf DK's tank kit to make the other classes look more viable.

Maryal

The issue is not whether or not a particular class can be a good tank, because they technically can if they build for it (and assuming they are skilled players experienced at this game).

Hypothetically, let's take a 12 person trial group that has 1 tank.

11 people in that group are used to working in a certain synergistic way with their tank, and have perfected or nearly perfected a group synergy that, intentionally or not, was built around a tank that performed in a certain way and brought certain things to the group. (Keep in mind that some groups have spent years honing their synergies ... it's not like this type of synergy happens overnight)

Now, when you take that same group and you change the tank's class, you basically have disrupted the optimal synergy that the group was previously able to achieve. Instead of moving forward (as a group) from where they were, now they feel like they've taken a few steps backwards.

It's not that a different class is unable to be an effective end game tank, it's that the other 11 people in the group don't want to change. Those other 11 people don't want to re-invent the wheel, so to speak ... to do so would take time, more trial and error, the builds of some of the other 11 people in the group would need to change ... basically it would be like starting from square 1 all over again in order for the group to learn how to achieve optimal synergy with their (different-class) tank.

Even when you don't have a static trial group, the optimal synergy I talked about above, that information is passed down and adopted by other players, who learn to act in a synergistic way based around a certain type of group structure. You will probably see a little more flexibility with non-static trial groups when it comes to group structure (sometimes they have little choice) ... so, while they may prefer a meta tank, they will accept a non-meta tank.

That being said, we don't have enough groups who have honed and perfected their trial group to work with a non DK tank. Until that happens, DK tanks will be considered the meta. Remember .. people make the meta ... so if you want the meta to change or expand, you're going to have to find enough trial groups willing to do this.

VaranisArano

So when it comes to abilities that a trials tank must have in order to be successful (and that only DKs can do), I'm only seeing one listed so far in the thread:

Certain situations require long periods of permablocking with no heavy attacks that cause the tank to drop block.

Is that the only one or are there more?

(And yes, I understand all the reasons why trials players are going to prefer the optimal tanks in the form of DKs. The question is not whether other classes will be optimal, the question is whether or not other classes can fulfill the tank role effectively AT ALL for trials.)

charley222

phillyproduct wrote: »

Even temps had the healing gap closed but dk are still the only tanks 4 end game. Why does no one care about this, nb sorc temp warden all need a buff somewhere in their passives so they can tank more effectivly

i just comeback but before the best tank is the 70k heal blazing shield bone armor templar ?
longtime i drop dk for tanking

ic they remove 3500 hp to blazing shield

Juhasow

Zinaroth wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

phillyproduct wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

phillyproduct wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

(Speaking of dungeons here, trials tanks need to be able to do whatever the trial requires of them, obviously.)

All you need to be a tank is to taunt the boss, hold aggro, and don't die.

Now to be a good tank, you need to taunt the boss, hold aggro, don't die, hold the boss more or less still, debuff the boss, buff the group, and provide crowd control.

Any class can manage that. Not with the same skills and gear, not in the same way, maybe not in the most optimized way possible, but every single class can manage everything that's needed to be a good tank in group dungeons, normal and vet.

Now, if you have some special preference or requirement, like you want a particular style or skill from your tanks, I suggest you keep a list of tanks that do that in your friend list and manually queue with them.


Now if you want to talk trials tanks, I think you need to clarify some things. Can classes other that DK not serve as tanks at all for trials? Or are they just not optimal? In either case, what are the requirements for being a trials tank that you feel that sorcs, nbs, templars, and wardens are all lacking in that DKs have better than all the rest to the point of pushing all other classes aside?

In trials nb sorc temp CANNOT coexist period.

Their has never been a trial group to ever beat a Vet trial with a nb and sorc tank or temp sorc or nb temp, you can and have seen every dps even weak classes complete raids however their is ZERO video evidence of nb sorc tank combination beating highest level vtrail's content.

And these developers dont care and the community has simply accepted it for some reason and im wondering why?

It's not truth it cannot coexist. People will just always choose best pick for any content they can go. You can beat any content without tank DK but dk simply allows to do it easier.

Show proff plz. Can you post any vids of sorc nb tanking vhof?

And can You show a proff it isnt possible ?

Burden of evidence rests on the person making the claim.

And what was my "claim" ? That people will always choose best pick ? Seriously proffs for that are needed ?

paulsimonps

I've seen plenty of non DK Tanks do end game Trials.

First of: WARDENS. That should be it right there, end of discussion, its another class that is not DK that can Tank Trials really well and be useful to the group. As well they make excellent off tanks.

Second, the only tank I would say would have difficulty in vet trials is Templar. They have the worst way to regain stamina for blocking. But spec it the right way and its still possible.

What we need to clarify is that being able to do something and being competitive at something are 2 very different things. ALL classes can Tank and Heal and DPS end game veteran Trials. HOWEVER, some do some roles better than other, and right now DK is the King of Tanks and Wardens are 2nd place. Same thing with Templars being King of Healing and Wardens 2nd place. But you could go in to vMaw and do it with a Sorc and Templar Tank combo for example and have a NB and DK healer. Its possible to complete with but it will be easier with more Meta set ups.

So again, DKs are not the only Tanks, they are just the best Tanks.

Integral1900

I’m not sure if it’s the power of their abilities, in all honesty it’s because they are simple...

I can make solid tanks in any class but the dk is by far the most user friendly, most of it boils down to three buttons pressed in whatever order you feel like and I can keep the boss taunted, apply a nice beefy de-buff and throw out group shields (albeit a weak one)

Classes and builds aren’t normaly popular just because they are powerful, they are popular because they are simple, it’s the same reason some people seem to have developed a habit of kicking warden healers before they get a chance to do anything, wardens can make great healers but their tactical complexity means a Templar will always be more popular because the player is statistcly less likely to balls it up!!!

There are stronger builds than the heavy attack lighting sorc but none that are as simple, hence loads of them are running around. It’s okay for the god like 0.000001 percent to whine about dumbing down as they regail us with tales of how they ambled casually through yet another vet trial, but most players, me included will never be that good, we want to grow but also to feel comfy, my warden does better healing but I use the Templar to do the healing instead because when a pug boss fight inevitably goes to hell in a hand cart she is so much simpler to use

dodgehopper_ESO

Turn Silver Leash into a proper chain pull... problem solved.
Maybe offer classes like Templar a proper CC... or offer proper CC's in out of class skills. That's about it.
The issue regarding Stamina Regeneration while blocking that @Integral1900 points out is true about Templars as well.

At the core it is possible to do almost anything with a character though but you do find some difficulties with one class or another in specific parts of the game.

Destruent

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Turn Silver Leash into a proper chain pull... problem solved.
Maybe offer classes like Templar a proper CC... or offer proper CC's in out of class skills. That's about it.

You don't need CC or a pulling-ability as a tank in PvE anymore, important mobs are CC-immune and unchainable.
The only thing DK-tanks are better than other classes are the following:
- better sustain (but it's neglible with balance and insanely strong heavy-attack-ressource return)
- selfhealing (DKs can be independent from a healer for a long time, while other classes rely on a healer as soon as they get damage...the vampdrain is their best heal in a high-HP meta and it forces you to drop block which is a bad idea when you need heals as tank...)

Give other classes a proper selfheal-mechanic when they specc for high HP and it looks a lot better for them....

dodgehopper_ESO

Destruent wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Turn Silver Leash into a proper chain pull... problem solved.
Maybe offer classes like Templar a proper CC... or offer proper CC's in out of class skills. That's about it.

You don't need CC or a pulling-ability as a tank in PvE anymore, important mobs are CC-immune and unchainable.
The only thing DK-tanks are better than other classes are the following:
- better sustain (but it's neglible with balance and insanely strong heavy-attack-ressource return)
- selfhealing (DKs can be independent from a healer for a long time, while other classes rely on a healer as soon as they get damage...the vampdrain is their best heal in a high-HP meta and it forces you to drop block which is a bad idea when you need heals as tank...)

Give other classes a proper selfheal-mechanic when they specc for high HP and it looks a lot better for them....

I didn't say you need it but as someone stated above it is often what people expect a tank to do. There are obvious limits though. I'd also point out that I can and have done some crazy self healing with classes other than DK. My argonian sap tank for one. Warden tank for another. I've toyed with some Sorc tanks as well but not quite as much. Even if I rarely have to chain pull on the DK, if something goes awry people will complain that you're not the DK. My point is that in many ways you can make a very resilient character with any of the classes, and I agree that DK is very resilient. Templar is as well but it does lack a lot of the controls people demand of it, particularly after the gutting of Blinding Flashes, the reduction of all cc, and I believe 3 nerfs of Blazing Shield.

Before they even deal with this though I'd like to see them reinstate some diminishing returns again to the game.

Destruent

Try tanking vHoF with templar/anything else and Dk afterwards and you'll see i'm right...all classes have everything they need but a working selfheal (except DK).

edit: warden has it's HP-scaling hot, should work okish, but it's still not as good as dragonblood + igneous.

paulsimonps

Destruent wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Turn Silver Leash into a proper chain pull... problem solved.
Maybe offer classes like Templar a proper CC... or offer proper CC's in out of class skills. That's about it.

You don't need CC or a pulling-ability as a tank in PvE anymore, important mobs are CC-immune and unchainable.
The only thing DK-tanks are better than other classes are the following:
- better sustain (but it's neglible with balance and insanely strong heavy-attack-ressource return)
- selfhealing (DKs can be independent from a healer for a long time, while other classes rely on a healer as soon as they get damage...the vampdrain is their best heal in a high-HP meta and it forces you to drop block which is a bad idea when you need heals as tank...)

Give other classes a proper selfheal-mechanic when they specc for high HP and it looks a lot better for them....

Yes in most Trials CC isn't really needed. Asylum, Halls of Fabrication are two examples where no CC is needed at all. BUT in Maw of Lorkhaj Chains is practically a must have. The twins becomes significantly harder to defeat without it, its also easier to defeat the first boss with them too cause of all the cats running around being untauntable. Chaining in some of the smaller mobs in Sanctum Ophidia is not needed but very useful, and the first trash wave thing before the mantikora becomes a lot easier with a single stack and DKs Chaining in the ranged mobs. However it can be done without it. Same thing goes for Hel Ra Citadel and Aetherian Archives, they have smaller adds that can be chained and doing so makes it easier. Not a necessity but easier. vDSA and in Dungeons its A LOT easier if you have some from of CC and Pull, its why DKs and Wardens do so well in 4 man. Not necessary but valuable and in bad groups with a good tank it can be a run saver.

But agree self heal is probably one of the biggest things, as well they have extra block mitigation, AoE interrupt which comes in handy for something like vMaw twins adds and Rakkath HM when off tank has to deal with Assassin and interrupting the Hulk. As well one of the other big things about DKs is that their way of getting resources back is most commonly to use the igneous shield, so you are constantly giving small damage shields to your allies. Well not that small I mean they had to nerf it for a reason.

VaranisArano

Nice Specifics!

So far trials tanks need:
Sustain long periods of permablocking with self-heals and no heavy attacking so they don't have to drop block.
Crowd control/chaining on some fights but not all.

SirCritical

Let Bone Shield working on allies without the need of using synergy: problem (almost) solved.

AverageJo3Gam3r

This post is thrashing. For the multiple people that claim that non-DK, non-warden tanks can main tank vet trials, we've asked multiple times for video proof and none has been provided.

Destruent

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

This post is thrashing. For the multiple people that claim that non-DK, non-warden tanks can main tank vet trials, we've asked multiple times for video proof and none has been provided.

The more important question is: Why do you even need a video-proof to belive it's possible? It works, just not as good as on a DK.
And you will need good healers ^^

DocFrost72

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

This post is thrashing. For the multiple people that claim that non-DK, non-warden tanks can main tank vet trials, we've asked multiple times for video proof and none has been provided.

I wasn't going to wade into this, but I'm gunna for the lawls.

Have you considered that not every single run in the game gets recorded? I will take Paul's word for it, seeing as he is a very well knowledged tank and end game raider.

As others have stated, most people (and definitely those seeking leaderboard, you know, the kind to record their runs) are going to choose DK. It's not that only DKs can do vet trials, it's that DKs can do everything other tanks can while adding some.

Your stam gives allies shielding, gives you ultimate (which will restore more resources), and adds 5% weapon damage. When DKs block, they block more damage because of their passives meaning you take less damage for a majority of any given fight. DK are certainly not the only ones capable of permablock, but they can pop warhorn to maintain it while other classes either deal with more exact and dangerous permablocking horns while requiring shards, OR more likely use sword and shield ulti. On sorcs though this is hardly a minus. If you have magic for two casts of dark deal, you're up 10k ish stam, and you can use war machine instead of a pen set if you want to maximize reward from ult use. On a DK, your chains will slow mobs after they hit thanks to passives in the ardent flame tree.

So yes, it is entirely possible to clear any vet trial on any tank, and with really good players you'll be more than able to have a smooth run. But if you're going for score, or if you have a less than veteran tank, a DK will simply offer more benefits to all the stuff you do while tanking. It offers more group support. That is why they are sought. That is why they will be in progression guilds that are already struggling for a clear. They're easier- not the only ones.

SirCritical

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

This post is thrashing. For the multiple people that claim that non-DK, non-warden tanks can main tank vet trials, we've asked multiple times for video proof and none has been provided.

Ofc they (we) won't since it would ruin their (our) hopes of improving other classes' chances of being buffed

I myself fully believe @Liofa 's comment about tanking vMoL with a warden, without video proofs. I'd like to see this run btw, just because of curiosity

paulsimonps

SirCritical wrote: »

Let Bone Shield working on allies without the need of using synergy: problem (almost) solved.

What problem will that solve?

AverageJo3Gam3r

So here's the thing. It seems that everyone agrees that DKs and wardens offer the most group support. Running a different tank puts more pressure on your team mates. Why would someone choose to be selfish? Vet trials are a team sport. Why would I put more stress on my team mates because I want to be a special snowflake?

Furthermore, I ask for visual proof because I remain unconvinced that nonDK, nonWarden tanks have the resource management tools to survive the mechanics I outlined in a previous post.