Why is it okay 3years later that dk are the only tanks still?

phillyproduct

Even temps had the healing gap closed but dk are still the only tanks 4 end game. Why does no one care about this, nb sorc temp warden all need a buff somewhere in their passives so they can tank more effectivly

Vizier

Ummm...no. Any class can tank and tank well.

phillyproduct

phillyproduct wrote: »

Even temps had the healing gap closed but dk are still the only tanks 4 end game. Why does no one care about this, nb sorc temp warden all need a buff somewhere in their passives so they can tank more effectivly

Meant in trials, everything else irrelevant

Apherius

Vizier wrote: »

Ummm...no. Any class can tank and tank well.

Well ... but not as good as a DK.

Even if you are very good with your sorc tank ... you miss some tool to be better than a DK tank.

btw the Warden isn't that bad in raid, for the rest i agree.

Alpheu5

Apherius wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Ummm...no. Any class can tank and tank well.

Well ... but not as good as a DK.

Even if you are very good with your sorc tank ... you miss some tool to be better than a DK tank.

btw the Warden isn't that bad in raid, for the rest i agree.

The only thing missing from a Sorc tank's arsenal is a pulling ability. Their passives bring ult costs in line with a DK wearing Dragon, Encase is a directional alternative to Talons without the Minor Maim, and Ball of Lightning makes tanking downright phenomenal in large arenas like the Titan in CoA2 and Lord Warden.

But you're right, DKs are definitely optimal. The chain was a huge game changer for me when I started.

Liofa

I played a DK tank for over 2 years and started playing a Warden tank recently . I can easily say Warden is better . I just completed vMoL HM as main tank , such ease and comfort . Warden is insane at tanking . Also , better pulling than DK next patch . Don't forget that Warden also has a AOE root skill .

Arobain

any class can tank well if you know what your doing

SirAndy

I ran with a pug group not too long ago, doing vet dungeons, and the tank was a Sorc. Did a good job too ...

ak_pvp

DK doesn't have much better regen than others. And the ulti passives are matched.

Templar and warden are both viable. Chain can be unbarred with enough DKs, except for vMOL.

ak_pvp

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Ummm...no. Any class can tank and tank well.

Well ... but not as good as a DK.

Even if you are very good with your sorc tank ... you miss some tool to be better than a DK tank.

btw the Warden isn't that bad in raid, for the rest i agree.

The only thing missing from a Sorc tank's arsenal is a pulling ability. Their passives bring ult costs in line with a DK wearing Dragon, Encase is a directional alternative to Talons without the Minor Maim, and Ball of Lightning makes tanking downright phenomenal in large arenas like the Titan in CoA2 and Lord Warden.

But you're right, DKs are definitely optimal. The chain was a huge game changer for me when I started.

No pls not more DK skills on a sorc. Next thing you know and one morph of bolt escape pulls the targets to you... They already have the animation in hews bane too.

Brutusmax1mus

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

Ummm...no. Any class can tank and tank well.

Well ... but not as good as a DK.

Even if you are very good with your sorc tank ... you miss some tool to be better than a DK tank.

btw the Warden isn't that bad in raid, for the rest i agree.

The only thing missing from a Sorc tank's arsenal is a pulling ability. Their passives bring ult costs in line with a DK wearing Dragon, Encase is a directional alternative to Talons without the Minor Maim, and Ball of Lightning makes tanking downright phenomenal in large arenas like the Titan in CoA2 and Lord Warden.

But you're right, DKs are definitely optimal. The chain was a huge game changer for me when I started.

It's a lot more than chains that makes them best. Do you not know what they are our are you playing dumb?

Izaki

Everyone is on about chains like its magic or something... You can pack adds without that, you just need to know how to move around properly. Plus the majority of adds can't be pulled in raids anyway.

DKs just have good passives and great sustain through Battle Roar and Helping Hands. They also have some pretty good group buffs: Igneous and Engulfing Flames. The rest isn't too much of a big deal.

Ulo

Used to love my NB sap tank but then he got repeatedly nerfed into the ground.

Asardes

Warden can main tank almost as well as DK. Night blades can be good off-tanks due to very good ultimate regen from their class passives and as of next patch they will be the only class able to proc Tava's in heavy armor.

Asardes

SirAndy wrote: »

I ran with a pug group not too long ago, doing vet dungeons, and the tank was a Sorc. Did a good job too ...

For dungeons almost any class will do. I've played my magicka sorcerer as tank a few months ago using a special build and it was pretty good at it. Did vCoS and vRoM HM. I might that build back some day.

AverageJo3Gam3r

A tree spamming warden with master architect or war machine may be the best tank for 4 player content if people can stand the visual clutter. Frees up the healer to do other things, and provides massive buffs to the dps.

phillyproduct

Yeah so now were gonna act like sorc and nb tanks are optimal


Their isnt a single video on youtube or twitch of A nb sorc tank combo compliting Vhof

Mojmir

Who needs chains when you can wear swarm mother? Just switch out gear before boss fights.

VaranisArano

(Speaking of dungeons here, trials tanks need to be able to do whatever the trial requires of them, obviously.)

All you need to be a tank is to taunt the boss, hold aggro, and don't die.

Now to be a good tank, you need to taunt the boss, hold aggro, don't die, hold the boss more or less still, debuff the boss, buff the group, and provide crowd control.

Any class can manage that. Not with the same skills and gear, not in the same way, maybe not in the most optimized way possible, but every single class can manage everything that's needed to be a good tank in group dungeons, normal and vet.

Now, if you have some special preference or requirement, like you want a particular style or skill from your tanks, I suggest you keep a list of tanks that do that in your friend list and manually queue with them.


Now if you want to talk trials tanks, I think you need to clarify some things. Can classes other that DK not serve as tanks at all for trials? Or are they just not optimal? In either case, what are the requirements for being a trials tank that you feel that sorcs, nbs, templars, and wardens are all lacking in that DKs have better than all the rest to the point of pushing all other classes aside?

Vaoh

When it comes to raids, DK is #1. Simple as that. If it wasn’t true then 99.9999999% of PvE tanks wouldn’t be DKs. Wardens are nice for alt runs so you can snatch more leaderboard rewards. I can imagine that tanks playing DK for years would have fun mixing it up a bit sometimes.

Also Magicka DK DPS is terrible now because you need to replace a Stam DPS to bring one. Much better to have your tank slot Engulfing Flames if needed.

kylewwefan

phillyproduct wrote: »

Even temps had the healing gap closed but dk are still the only tanks 4 end game. Why does no one care about this, nb sorc temp warden all need a buff somewhere in their passives so they can tank more effectivly

It’s just the way it is. Except for also the warden now.

Try joining a Trials guild and saying you want to tank HelRa with your Sorc tank. Or nightblade healer. Very few groups are crushing content so hard they’d be willing to try it. The ones that are crushing it will not likely give you the chance.

AverageJo3Gam3r

The reason why DKs and wardens are considered *the* trials tanks is their superior resource management when you have to permablock. What resource tools does a NB give you when you can't light attack and have to cast a shadow skill every 4 seconds for your armor buff? What resource tools does a templar give you when there are no bodies to repent? What resource tools does a sorc give you when you cannot drop block for a second and a half to dark deal?

There are many vet trial encounters where you have to permablock (first and last boss vhrc, axes, ozara adds, manticoras, last boss vdsa, etc). DKs and wardens give you the tools to do this and other classes do not.

Asardes

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

The reason why DKs and wardens are considered *the* trials tanks is their superior resource management when you have to permablock. What resource tools does a NB give you when you can't light attack and have to cast a shadow skill every 4 seconds for your armor buff? What resource tools does a templar give you when there are no bodies to repent? What resource tools does a sorc give you when you cannot drop block for a second and a half to dark deal?

There are many vet trial encounters where you have to permablock (first and last boss vhrc, axes, ozara adds, manticoras, last boss vdsa, etc). DKs and wardens give you the tools to do this and other classes do not.

Actually the Shadow Barrier resistance buff lasts for 13.5s with 5 pieces of heavy armor, and 16.5s with 7 pieces.

Casting a Shadow ability grants you Major Resolve and Major Ward for 6 seconds, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5280. This duration is increased by 25% for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped.

Additionally NB can stack major ward & protection with minor from Mirage, which also grants major evasion - as of next patch no other class has access to that buff in heavy armor, unless using Hist Bark set. So it's quite viable for tanking, not necessarily main tanking trials, but certainly viable as off-tanks, and pretty good for dungeons.

phillyproduct

VaranisArano wrote: »

(Speaking of dungeons here, trials tanks need to be able to do whatever the trial requires of them, obviously.)

All you need to be a tank is to taunt the boss, hold aggro, and don't die.

Now to be a good tank, you need to taunt the boss, hold aggro, don't die, hold the boss more or less still, debuff the boss, buff the group, and provide crowd control.

Any class can manage that. Not with the same skills and gear, not in the same way, maybe not in the most optimized way possible, but every single class can manage everything that's needed to be a good tank in group dungeons, normal and vet.

Now, if you have some special preference or requirement, like you want a particular style or skill from your tanks, I suggest you keep a list of tanks that do that in your friend list and manually queue with them.


Now if you want to talk trials tanks, I think you need to clarify some things. Can classes other that DK not serve as tanks at all for trials? Or are they just not optimal? In either case, what are the requirements for being a trials tank that you feel that sorcs, nbs, templars, and wardens are all lacking in that DKs have better than all the rest to the point of pushing all other classes aside?

In trials nb sorc temp CANNOT coexist period.

Their has never been a trial group to ever beat a Vet trial with a nb and sorc tank or temp sorc or nb temp, you can and have seen every dps even weak classes complete raids however their is ZERO video evidence of nb sorc tank combination beating highest level vtrail's content.

And these developers dont care and the community has simply accepted it for some reason and im wondering why?

Trinity_Is_My_Name

Huh? I still see Templar Tanks, Sorc Tanks, Nightblade Tanks and Warden Tanks as well as DK Tanks. What are you talking about? As a matter of fact I have DK, Warden and Nightblade Tanks that I use every day.

VaranisArano

So if that combination doesn't work, how about those classes in combination with another class? Will a nightblade tank, or a sorc tank, or a templar tank never ever be able to complete a vet trial? Or is this just that DKs and Wardens are better tanks and so the trials community prefers them? How can we figure that out?

Let's look at what are the requirements for a trials tank that nightblades, sorcs, and templars can't meet.

Look at my job description for a good group dungeon tank: taunt the boss, hold aggro, don't die, hold the boss more or less still, debuff the boss, buff the group, and provide crowd control
For example, a sorc can use Pierce Armor, Inner Fire or Frost staff, shields to not die, debuff and buff with Elemental Drain, and use encase - doing all of the things a group dungeon tank needs to do. Other classes have their own options. Sorcs and indeed all other classes are viable as good group dungeon tanks when built correctly, though its worth noting that viability is not the same as optimal in all situations.

So, what are the requirements for a trials tank? Do the other classes besides DK and Warden have options to meet those requirements or are they lacking? Let's get specific, because the first step to convincing others that classes are or are not viable in certain roles is to get specific.

phillyproduct

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

Huh? I still see Templar Tanks, Sorc Tanks, Nightblade Tanks and Warden Tanks as well as DK Tanks. What are you talking about? As a matter of fact I have DK, Warden and Nightblade Tanks that I use every day.

Can I see a video of you tanking a trail then? Vet without a dk in it?

phillyproduct

VaranisArano wrote: »

So if that combination doesn't work, how about those classes in combination with another class? Will a nightblade tank, or a sorc tank, or a templar tank never ever be able to complete a vet trial? Or is this just that DKs and Wardens are better tanks and so the trials community prefers them? How can we figure that out?

Let's look at what are the requirements for a trials tank that nightblades, sorcs, and templars can't meet.

Look at my job description for a good group dungeon tank: taunt the boss, hold aggro, don't die, hold the boss more or less still, debuff the boss, buff the group, and provide crowd control
For example, a sorc can use Pierce Armor, Inner Fire or Frost staff, shields to not die, debuff and buff with Elemental Drain, and use encase - doing all of the things a group dungeon tank needs to do. Other classes have their own options. Sorcs and indeed all other classes are viable as good group dungeon tanks when built correctly, though its worth noting that viability is not the same as optimal in all situations.

So, what are the requirements for a trials tank? Do the other classes besides DK and Warden have options to meet those requirements or are they lacking? Let's get specific, because the first step to convincing others that classes are or are not viable in certain roles is to get specific.

I want to break this down so much but at work I appreciate your response this is exactly the question I want to ask and why hasn't the developers asked them already? Or address them in over 3years

Flameheart

For 4-man-stuff it does not matter at all.

For trials the DK is still the most favored tank because of its ressource and sustain abilites, to mention the Earthen Heart passives, not so much the chains, because most vet trial mobs aren't affected by chains.

AverageJo3Gam3r

@Flameheart has it right. It all comes down to resource management. How can a NB, sorc, or templar tank hold aggro on the overcharger and troll add during the Ozara fight in vSO without any healer support? How are you going to permablock on ra kotu's spin or the warrior 1000 cuts or axes? DKs and wardens simply have the best resource management skills for these situations that other classes do not.

Deyoz

beacuse:

- the templar is the strongest heal
- the sorcerer can best survive (+AoEs)
- the nightblade got the biggest single target damage

and the dragonknight the best tank is.


It would also be unreallistic, in terms of the class description:

f.e.
Dragonknight: "The powerful Dragon Knight wield the power of fire to dish out serious amounts of damage. They are great in close quarters battles, but also have a skill tree that can be teched into, allowing them to tank enemies for your group. They can easily wield any weapon, so don't be surprised to see people running around with bows, swords or giant 2 handed weapons."

Nightblade: "The most dedicated DPS class in the game, the Nightblade allows players to deal large amounts of damage, while being heavily focused on stealth. No matter the skill tree you pick, you will always be able to deal tons of damage with this class. They are also great at soloing, and have very high sustain values thanks to their many skills that drain health, magicka and stamina from targets. Although a bow is an option, expect most Nightblades to be getting up close and personal with their foes." = tank?

http://www.ign.com/wikis/elder-scrolls-online/Classes

However, I do not want to say that other classes can not be a tank, it was more about the question why the dragonknight is the best tank