Master's Destruction Staff and Maelstrom's Two-Handed weapons need adjustments

Izaki

So now that new weapons are being introduced and that a number of them are completely underwhelming, it is a good time to bring the lackluster weapons (or more accurately the decon/vendor/research weapons) up to par and to make them the rewards they are supposed to be. Now there are already a number of threads that give some very good insight as to which weapons are worth it and those that aren't. In this thread we won't be talking about any of the Asylum weapons, since those deserve threads of their own (you can write 500 page novels about how terrible some of those weapons are and still not mention everything that needs to be mentioned).

Now obviously, all these weapons don't have to be Best in Slot for every single situation. But once you complete something like Veteran Maelstrom Arena for the first time, which is a huge personal achievement, you expect to come out with a weapon that you can be proud to use. However, currently, only 2 Maelstrom weapons are actually worth slotting over a set bonus: the Maelstrom's Bow and the Maelstrom's Destruction Staff, both of which are very strong "back bar" weapons. There are 2 weapons in particular however, that are extremely lackluster in their current state on the Clockwork City PTS: the Maelstrom's Two-Handed weapons and the Master's Destruction Staff. They are so bad, that they stand out from the lot. The reason why I'm taking these 2 weapons is because all they need is adjustment to their set bonus value (not an entire rework like the Asylum Dual Wield).

Let's look at these weapons one by one and see where everything goes wrong and then study the easiest solutions to these problems.

The Master's Destruction Staff:
Destructive Impact increases the initial damage of Destructive Touch abilities by 1500 and reduces it's cost by
This results in a DPS increase of... 187.5 DPS. Yep. That's nothing at all. An extra spell damage bonus from completing a 4 piece set (like Infallible Aether or Moondancer or Master Architect) will bring more overall benefit since it increases all your damage and scales with the DPS you do: the more DPS you put out, the more beneficial the spell damage bonus becomes and the better it becomes over a proc (much like Molag Kena vs Ilambris or Grothdarr).
What's the easiest thing to do to make this weapon viable (yes we aren't even talking about BiS yet, we are only trying to make this thing viable, aka worth slotting)? Increase the DoT damage, just like with the Stinging Slashes set bonus. Now a 1500 increase per tick might be too high and let's not forget the cost reduction which is a great benefit. My suggestion? Scrap the initial damage increase completely, and instead increase every tick of Destructive Touch abilities by 1000. Keep the cost reduction. Now it will make this weapon a competitive choice for the classes using Destructive Touch, although it doesn't even compare with the Maelstrom's or Asylum's Destruction Staff which either increase your DPS by as much as 4k on heavy attack builds for the former or provide great utility to the group for the latter. But still, it makes this weapon viable.

Maestrom's Two-Handed weapons:
Merciless Charge applies a damage over time effect of ... on each use of Critical Charge abilities.
Needless to say, when the weapon had a 189 weapon damage attached, it was great. Now however... The DoT ticks for less than 1000 per tick outside of Cyrodiil without any modifiers from CP. Let's not fool ourselves, no one uses Critical Charge in PvE. So this translates to less than 500 damage per tick before mitigation values are applied. What's worse? It used to be able to critically strike. Now that its a set bonus, it can no longer do that. So how on earth is anyone going to slot this weapon over anything else? What needs to be done? Double the amount of damage cause by the DoT. That's the easiest solution. It will mean that the DoT will tick for a total of about 5000 damage inside of Cyrodiil without any CP boosts or mitigation values. Now that's a good DoT that is worth using in some situations over a stat bonus. Now obviously doubling the DoT damage is a bit too radical, but I would say that an increase of 50-75% of the DoT damage value is definitely needed to keep this weapon in use.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel

Please look into this, these weapons are easily rendered useful simply by tweaking the values... And its needed. Badly.

Taonnor

Izaki wrote: »

The Master's Destruction Staff:
Destructive Impact increases the initial damage of Destructive Touch abilities by 1500 and reduces it's cost by
This results in a DPS increase of... 187.5 DPS. Yep. That's nothing at all. An extra spell damage bonus from completing a 4 piece set (like Infallible Aether or Moondancer or Master Architect) will bring more overall benefit since it increases all your damage and scales with the DPS you do: the more DPS you put out, the more beneficial the spell damage bonus becomes and the better it becomes over a proc (much like Molag Kena vs Ilambris or Grothdarr).
What's the easiest thing to do to make this weapon viable (yes we aren't even talking about BiS yet, we are only trying to make this thing viable, aka worth slotting)? Increase the DoT damage, just like with the Stinging Slashes set bonus. Now a 1500 increase per tick might be too high and let's not forget the cost reduction which is a great benefit. My suggestion? Scrap the initial damage increase completely, and instead increase every tick of Destructive Touch abilities by 1000. Keep the cost reduction. Now it will make this weapon a competitive choice for the classes using Destructive Touch, although it doesn't even compare with the Maelstrom's or Asylum's Destruction Staff which either increase your DPS by as much as 4k on heavy attack builds for the former or provide great utility to the group for the latter. But still, it makes this weapon viable.

No DoT Dmg! Direct Dmg is perfect.

Izaki

Taonnor wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

The Master's Destruction Staff:
Destructive Impact increases the initial damage of Destructive Touch abilities by 1500 and reduces it's cost by
This results in a DPS increase of... 187.5 DPS. Yep. That's nothing at all. An extra spell damage bonus from completing a 4 piece set (like Infallible Aether or Moondancer or Master Architect) will bring more overall benefit since it increases all your damage and scales with the DPS you do: the more DPS you put out, the more beneficial the spell damage bonus becomes and the better it becomes over a proc (much like Molag Kena vs Ilambris or Grothdarr).
What's the easiest thing to do to make this weapon viable (yes we aren't even talking about BiS yet, we are only trying to make this thing viable, aka worth slotting)? Increase the DoT damage, just like with the Stinging Slashes set bonus. Now a 1500 increase per tick might be too high and let's not forget the cost reduction which is a great benefit. My suggestion? Scrap the initial damage increase completely, and instead increase every tick of Destructive Touch abilities by 1000. Keep the cost reduction. Now it will make this weapon a competitive choice for the classes using Destructive Touch, although it doesn't even compare with the Maelstrom's or Asylum's Destruction Staff which either increase your DPS by as much as 4k on heavy attack builds for the former or provide great utility to the group for the latter. But still, it makes this weapon viable.

No DoT Dmg! Direct Dmg is perfect.

You being serious or are you trolling? Even in PvP this means that the direct hit is only doing 750 extra damage... Which is not much at all.

Ladislao

2000 bonus damage for Destructive Touch is slightly more than 3000 spell damage. Just compare with MSA DW: only 2000 wd/sd after Flurry.
Plus cost reduction for more than 1000 magicka per cast.
And don't forget about aoe potencial.

This was already not bad last week. Now it doesn't need a buff in this direction at all.
But of course I would look at the rework. Although we are well aware that the ZOS will not go for it.

No objection to 2H.

Izaki

Ladislao wrote: »

2000 bonus damage for Destructive Touch is slightly more than 3000 spell damage. Just compare with MSA DW: only 2000 wd/sd after Flurry.
Plus cost reduction for more than 1000 magicka per cast.
And don't forget about aoe potencial.

This was already not bad last week. Now it doesn't need a buff in this direction at all.
But of course I would look at the rework. Although we are well aware that the ZOS will not go for it.

No objection to 2H.

Flurry is actually very good, its just not usable due to sustain issues and Rearming Trap consuming the enchant.

Like I said... The increase only amounts to roughly 200 DPS. Compare that to Asylum or Maelstrom which both can boost DPS up to as high as 4k.

Ladislao

Izaki wrote: »

Flurry is actually very good, its just not usable due to sustain issues and Rearming Trap consuming the enchant.

Like I said... The increase only amounts to roughly 200 DPS. Compare that to Asylum or Maelstrom which both can boost DPS up to as high as 4k.

MSA DW is good but its not easy to rotate against more than one enemy. Master Destro - not hard at all, just spam skill.
In PVP DPS is not an objective indicator. Sustain and burst usually means much more. In this case Master Destro looks much better than MSA DW. Just try to consider every set from all sides.

Izaki

Ladislao wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

Flurry is actually very good, its just not usable due to sustain issues and Rearming Trap consuming the enchant.

Like I said... The increase only amounts to roughly 200 DPS. Compare that to Asylum or Maelstrom which both can boost DPS up to as high as 4k.

MSA DW is good but its not easy to rotate against more than one enemy. Master Destro - not hard at all, just spam skill.
In PVP DPS is not an objective indicator. Sustain and burst usually means much more. In this case Master Destro looks much better than MSA DW. Just try to consider every set from all sides.

I've made a pretty in depth thread about MA DW and their whole point is to be used in single target fights, not AoE. They are very good, or actually, they have massive potential to be extremely good.

I don't know man... This skill isn't exactly great for burst even in PvP. Its weak and its expensive. If anything its used to setup your burst through the CC and the extra pressure from the DoT. Its not exactly the skill that strikes me as the "nuke" skill, and even with the Master Destro, its still not a nuke. You aren't going to kill anyone with this skill alone (unless you push people of cliffs and stuff), unlike Assassin's Will, Frags or Dark Flare which can literally take you from full health down to execute. So yeah. I mean, Destructive Reach would be WAY more dangerous in PvP if it had the cost reduction and massive DoT damage (which is basically my suggestion). It would allow you to setup your burst much more efficiently.

Avran_Sylt

@Izaki

I actually think that this buff it has now is alright. The main thing I use Destructive reach for is when I play a support char in PvP.

I'm that jack-knob ice mage who's healing my buds and perma immobilizing you. I do jack for damage though.

Still, it would probably be better to create a different effect for each destro staff, rather than one for all, as for ice at least, the current iteration is nice.

Izaki

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Izaki

I actually think that this buff it has now is alright. The main thing I use Destructive reach for is when I play a support char in PvP.

I'm that jack-knob ice mage who's healing my buds and perma immobilizing you. I do jack for damage though.

Still, it would probably be better to create a different effect for each destro staff, rather than one for all, as for ice at least, the current iteration is nice.

Well I was originally talking from a PvE perspective, so you guys may be right! But the vMA 2H definitely needs a change, otherwise, its trash.

TheYKcid

Yeah, vMA 2H desperately needs a buff...

A previous thread suggested changing the proc into a bleed, which would at least allow it to ignore target resistances. An alternative buff to consider.

Taonnor

Izaki wrote: »

Taonnor wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

The Master's Destruction Staff:
Destructive Impact increases the initial damage of Destructive Touch abilities by 1500 and reduces it's cost by
This results in a DPS increase of... 187.5 DPS. Yep. That's nothing at all. An extra spell damage bonus from completing a 4 piece set (like Infallible Aether or Moondancer or Master Architect) will bring more overall benefit since it increases all your damage and scales with the DPS you do: the more DPS you put out, the more beneficial the spell damage bonus becomes and the better it becomes over a proc (much like Molag Kena vs Ilambris or Grothdarr).
What's the easiest thing to do to make this weapon viable (yes we aren't even talking about BiS yet, we are only trying to make this thing viable, aka worth slotting)? Increase the DoT damage, just like with the Stinging Slashes set bonus. Now a 1500 increase per tick might be too high and let's not forget the cost reduction which is a great benefit. My suggestion? Scrap the initial damage increase completely, and instead increase every tick of Destructive Touch abilities by 1000. Keep the cost reduction. Now it will make this weapon a competitive choice for the classes using Destructive Touch, although it doesn't even compare with the Maelstrom's or Asylum's Destruction Staff which either increase your DPS by as much as 4k on heavy attack builds for the former or provide great utility to the group for the latter. But still, it makes this weapon viable.

No DoT Dmg! Direct Dmg is perfect.

You being serious or are you trolling? Even in PvP this means that the direct hit is only doing 750 extra damage... Which is not much at all.

This is absolutely wrong!! Did you trolling?!

The following was with old values. Now its buffed to 30% cost reduction and 2k extra dmg. The extra dmg will be buffed via passives too, so that you have an dmg increase of more than 2.5k in real dmg for single target component and aoe component!

And a second hint! The direct dmg buff will not affected by battle spirit (If it's same mechanic as before)

Taonnor wrote: »

I'm not realy for a change of buffing the dot, because now the staff is a good pvp staff. The master weapons firstly where pvp weapons not pve.

To compare:

Avran_Sylt

@Izaki

What if the vMA 2H was changed so that it now dealt AoE damage on impact as well as applying the bleed? (probably rename it to "merciless slice")

WrathOfInnos

Good points on the Master destruction staff. I will point out that the bonus damage can crit and is affected by CP's, so with some builds the 2000 could go up to 5000-6000. This is still only 500-600 DPS max if using this skill every 10s, which is less than the benefit of running a 1 piece monster helm (approx 1% DPS loss).

The sustain part helps slightly, if you are set on using clench. The skill costs about 4K Magicka IIRC, so 30% reduction is 1200 less Magicka spent every 10s. This works out to effectively 120 mag/s or 240 mag regen. Not bad if you are already using clench, but I don't think it's worth a set bonus to make a bad skill into an ok skill.

It would be great if it added some damage onto each tick. I believe clench ticks 4 times (every 2s), so 1000 Dmg per tick sounds reasonable. 500 damage per second before multipliers would make destructive clench competitive, but not overpowered. The cost reduction would need to stay, or it would still see no use.

Another possibility would be to make it more like the Master bow, with additional spell damage against any target affected by clench.

Izaki

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Izaki

What if the vMA 2H was changed so that it now dealt AoE damage on impact as well as applying the bleed? (probably rename it to "merciless slice")

Could be interesting for sure, but while AoE damage is good, it would not make me want to slot a vMA 2H over a Velidreth or Molag Kena piece.

Firstmep

On the new Master 2h i think it could be interesting for aoe situations. I would have liked it better if they made the bleed dot stronger though instead of the initial hit(like the way master dw buffs twin slashes).
If they did that id tottaly pair that up with war machine, apply carve on cooldown, might be an interesting combo, although not BIS.
The thing with the current pts version is that cleave has a very small aoe, so hitting multiple targets to get the max benefits isnt really feasible, and pretty much worthless single target. Buffing the dot up however would give 2h a decent bleed, which would go a long way in closing the gap to dual wield(pve dps), and make it worth running on some pvp builds as well.
As far as the new master daggers go, ill defo try them out at least in pvp. Can anyone confirm if the daggers buff the heal from blood craze as well or just the damage?
My stamplar would really dig me some extra self healing.
For the master destro staff again, its buffing the initial damage of a dot skill, why? Either give it a better cc for pvp or buff the dot damage, would make more sense. Keep the cost reduction tho.

For vma weapons again the 2 hander needs some love desperately, countless hours of farming for many ppl are about to be thrown out the window. This is a primarily pvp weapon so some sort of pvp oriented buff to crit charge would be nice, aoe damage or stun or change the dot to a bleed and make it tick for more than what it does .
As it stands this weapon is about to go from top tier to decon material.
If you Zos guys want to remove the 1 piece wpd/spd bonuses than the weapons need to be strong enough without the to make people want to use them.
Just look at the vma destro staff, still going to be a very potent backbar weapon for pve, the resto staff is getting a healthy buff, i for one welcome the extra magicka from the crit heals, it incetivises using rapid regen/mutagen, esentially maing it a sustain skill for healers, again it makes sense.
A weak a** dot on crit charge which is a burst/gap closing skill makes 0 sense to me its not like im going to back out and reapply it in combar every 8 seconds or so.

Joy_Division

Izaki wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Izaki

I actually think that this buff it has now is alright. The main thing I use Destructive reach for is when I play a support char in PvP.

I'm that jack-knob ice mage who's healing my buds and perma immobilizing you. I do jack for damage though.

Still, it would probably be better to create a different effect for each destro staff, rather than one for all, as for ice at least, the current iteration is nice.

Well I was originally talking from a PvE perspective, so you guys may be right! But the vMA 2H definitely needs a change, otherwise, its trash.

No, you're right. People get excited about the bonus and forget they have to trade an entire piece set bonus (potentially 2 for dual wielders) just so they can do like 700 extra damage on a single meh skill.

WuffyCerulei

These are gonna still be sweet in pvp. They're fine.

Trashs1

and what is with my nb who doesnt use crit rush?? can we just keep the weapon dmg??

Izaki

Trashs1 wrote: »

and what is with my nb who doesnt use crit rush?? can we just keep the weapon dmg??

The whole point of the vMA 2H is to make you want slot Crit Rush over Ambush. That's how good the set bonus should be.

Dymence

The master destro is complete crap for PVE and PVP alike.

People need to test their *** before going nuts over tooltip numbers.

It needs DoT damage or noone will ever use it aside from the clueless.

Izaki

Dymence wrote: »

The master destro is complete crap for PVE and PVP alike.

People need to test their *** before going nuts over tooltip numbers.

It needs DoT damage or noone will ever use it aside from the clueless.

Ah! So I was right about it!

Taonnor

Dymence wrote: »

The master destro is complete crap for PVE and PVP alike.

People need to test their *** before going nuts over tooltip numbers.

It needs DoT damage or noone will ever use it aside from the clueless.

Your adjustment kills the PvP relevance of Master Destro. So please we need good adjustments, which will benefit both (PvE/PvP). Adding the dmg to the DoT part of Master Destro is very bad in PvP, because of HoT heals and Purge.

PvP needs direct dmg, more direct dmg is better for pvp. I understand that PvE needs DoT dmg, but adjusting all master weapons for PvE is "unfair" against the PvP part. So please stop that *** ... Realy...

Izaki

Taonnor wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

The master destro is complete crap for PVE and PVP alike.

People need to test their *** before going nuts over tooltip numbers.

It needs DoT damage or noone will ever use it aside from the clueless.

Your adjustment kills the PvP relevance of Master Destro. So please we need good adjustments, which will benefit both (PvE/PvP). Adding the dmg to the DoT part of Master Destro is very bad in PvP, because of HoT heals and Purge.

PvP needs direct dmg, more direct dmg is better for pvp. I understand that PvE needs DoT dmg, but adjusting all master weapons for PvE is "unfair" against the PvP part. So please stop that *** ... Realy...

So you burst with a Destructive Reach then? You spam the crap out of that to kill someone? Even in PvP the stronger DoT will be more useful. Destructive Reach is always used to setup a burst, and frankly, a stronger DoT gives you more chance to pull off your burst, than a small direct damage hit.

sluice

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel,

It's simple, since One Tamriel, the vMA 2H was already not used as much because all the new sets introduced in the game.
The sole reason to use it was for it's 189 weapon damage. Removing this, makes this weapon shameful and pretty much useless.
(~500 damage tick in PvP is not going to have any impact in a fight)
A lot of great players had already stopped using it. Now everyone should stop using it.

Just throwing some different Ideas to to keep the vMA 2H viable :

• Keep the 189 weapon damage
• Make the damage a bleed and increase it's damage a little bit
• Make it considerably increase the range you can Crit Charge (by 8-10m)
• Greatly increase it's damage (at least double it, like it used to be a long time ago)

Right now the only reason to keep a vMA 2H, is if you truly have a dead slot 2H and you use Crit Charge.
Then again, if you are a true min-maxer, it's easy to find a better setup. Most vMA 2H are going to end up in the bank, until they are properly buffed to match other trial weapons.

Dymence

Taonnor wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

The master destro is complete crap for PVE and PVP alike.

People need to test their *** before going nuts over tooltip numbers.

It needs DoT damage or noone will ever use it aside from the clueless.

Your adjustment kills the PvP relevance of Master Destro. So please we need good adjustments, which will benefit both (PvE/PvP). Adding the dmg to the DoT part of Master Destro is very bad in PvP, because of HoT heals and Purge.

PvP needs direct dmg, more direct dmg is better for pvp. I understand that PvE needs DoT dmg, but adjusting all master weapons for PvE is "unfair" against the PvP part. So please stop that *** ... Realy...

The impact damage from destructive touch is non-existant.

Master staves are not going to fix that for you.

Derra

Dymence wrote: »

Taonnor wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

The master destro is complete crap for PVE and PVP alike.

People need to test their *** before going nuts over tooltip numbers.

It needs DoT damage or noone will ever use it aside from the clueless.

Your adjustment kills the PvP relevance of Master Destro. So please we need good adjustments, which will benefit both (PvE/PvP). Adding the dmg to the DoT part of Master Destro is very bad in PvP, because of HoT heals and Purge.

PvP needs direct dmg, more direct dmg is better for pvp. I understand that PvE needs DoT dmg, but adjusting all master weapons for PvE is "unfair" against the PvP part. So please stop that *** ... Realy...

The impact damage from destructive touch is non-existant.

Master staves are not going to fix that for you.

It can compete with crushing shock on a regular pvp build in terms of dmg and cost. It´s still not there yet (imo) but not complete crap either.
I can see builds with the weapon being used.

Dymence

Derra wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Taonnor wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

The master destro is complete crap for PVE and PVP alike.

People need to test their *** before going nuts over tooltip numbers.

It needs DoT damage or noone will ever use it aside from the clueless.

Your adjustment kills the PvP relevance of Master Destro. So please we need good adjustments, which will benefit both (PvE/PvP). Adding the dmg to the DoT part of Master Destro is very bad in PvP, because of HoT heals and Purge.

PvP needs direct dmg, more direct dmg is better for pvp. I understand that PvE needs DoT dmg, but adjusting all master weapons for PvE is "unfair" against the PvP part. So please stop that *** ... Realy...

The impact damage from destructive touch is non-existant.

Master staves are not going to fix that for you.

It can compete with crushing shock on a regular pvp build in terms of dmg and cost. It´s still not there yet (imo) but not complete crap either.
I can see builds with the weapon being used.

Force pulse still hits harder, is cheaper, is non reflectable, can proc various status effects... I don't really see how it can compete. From what I can tell, people generally don't use it for the damage in PVP.

Qbiken

Derra wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Taonnor wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

The master destro is complete crap for PVE and PVP alike.

People need to test their *** before going nuts over tooltip numbers.

It needs DoT damage or noone will ever use it aside from the clueless.

Your adjustment kills the PvP relevance of Master Destro. So please we need good adjustments, which will benefit both (PvE/PvP). Adding the dmg to the DoT part of Master Destro is very bad in PvP, because of HoT heals and Purge.

PvP needs direct dmg, more direct dmg is better for pvp. I understand that PvE needs DoT dmg, but adjusting all master weapons for PvE is "unfair" against the PvP part. So please stop that *** ... Realy...

The impact damage from destructive touch is non-existant.

Master staves are not going to fix that for you.

It can compete with crushing shock on a regular pvp build in terms of dmg and cost. It´s still not there yet (imo) but not complete crap either.
I can see builds with the weapon being used.

I like the Master Frost staff (+ I have one in charged = almost guaranteed snare), has some good usage in a small group

Derra

Dymence wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Taonnor wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

The master destro is complete crap for PVE and PVP alike.

People need to test their *** before going nuts over tooltip numbers.

It needs DoT damage or noone will ever use it aside from the clueless.

Your adjustment kills the PvP relevance of Master Destro. So please we need good adjustments, which will benefit both (PvE/PvP). Adding the dmg to the DoT part of Master Destro is very bad in PvP, because of HoT heals and Purge.

PvP needs direct dmg, more direct dmg is better for pvp. I understand that PvE needs DoT dmg, but adjusting all master weapons for PvE is "unfair" against the PvP part. So please stop that *** ... Realy...

The impact damage from destructive touch is non-existant.

Master staves are not going to fix that for you.

It can compete with crushing shock on a regular pvp build in terms of dmg and cost. It´s still not there yet (imo) but not complete crap either.
I can see builds with the weapon being used.

Force pulse still hits harder, is cheaper, is non reflectable, can proc various status effects... I don't really see how it can compete. From what I can tell, people generally don't use it for the damage in PVP.

It works great with frags or assassins will combos as it´s better timed than other CCs. Also having your anytime ability be a CC can be incredibly good.
You either want to CC on cooldown (or as close as possible) or you only want to CC when you burst - this opens up the possibility of cc on cooldown for some builds.

Force pulse is an entirely different beast in pvp anyways. If you´re running that you´re most likely in a group with the size that makes the interrupt on shock irrelevant or you´re dueling (against classes where the interrupt is irrelevant).

The lightning version with clench is the strongest "ranged" aoe in the game aswell.

Dymence

Derra wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Taonnor wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

The master destro is complete crap for PVE and PVP alike.

People need to test their *** before going nuts over tooltip numbers.

It needs DoT damage or noone will ever use it aside from the clueless.

Your adjustment kills the PvP relevance of Master Destro. So please we need good adjustments, which will benefit both (PvE/PvP). Adding the dmg to the DoT part of Master Destro is very bad in PvP, because of HoT heals and Purge.

PvP needs direct dmg, more direct dmg is better for pvp. I understand that PvE needs DoT dmg, but adjusting all master weapons for PvE is "unfair" against the PvP part. So please stop that *** ... Realy...

The impact damage from destructive touch is non-existant.

Master staves are not going to fix that for you.

It can compete with crushing shock on a regular pvp build in terms of dmg and cost. It´s still not there yet (imo) but not complete crap either.
I can see builds with the weapon being used.

Force pulse still hits harder, is cheaper, is non reflectable, can proc various status effects... I don't really see how it can compete. From what I can tell, people generally don't use it for the damage in PVP.

It works great with frags or assassins will combos as it´s better timed than other CCs. Also having your anytime ability be a CC can be incredibly good.
You either want to CC on cooldown (or as close as possible) or you only want to CC when you burst - this opens up the possibility of cc on cooldown for some builds.

Force pulse is an entirely different beast in pvp anyways. If you´re running that you´re most likely in a group with the size that makes the interrupt on shock irrelevant or you´re dueling (against classes where the interrupt is irrelevant).

The lightning version with clench is the strongest "ranged" aoe in the game aswell.

I'm not denying it's a great skill to line up your burst, but you don't primarily use it for the damage it deals since it's very negligable.

Joy_Division

Derra wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Taonnor wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

The master destro is complete crap for PVE and PVP alike.

People need to test their *** before going nuts over tooltip numbers.

It needs DoT damage or noone will ever use it aside from the clueless.

Your adjustment kills the PvP relevance of Master Destro. So please we need good adjustments, which will benefit both (PvE/PvP). Adding the dmg to the DoT part of Master Destro is very bad in PvP, because of HoT heals and Purge.

PvP needs direct dmg, more direct dmg is better for pvp. I understand that PvE needs DoT dmg, but adjusting all master weapons for PvE is "unfair" against the PvP part. So please stop that *** ... Realy...

The impact damage from destructive touch is non-existant.

Master staves are not going to fix that for you.

It can compete with crushing shock on a regular pvp build in terms of dmg and cost. It´s still not there yet (imo) but not complete crap either.
I can see builds with the weapon being used.

Force pulse still hits harder, is cheaper, is non reflectable, can proc various status effects... I don't really see how it can compete. From what I can tell, people generally don't use it for the damage in PVP.

It works great with frags or assassins will combos as it´s better timed than other CCs. Also having your anytime ability be a CC can be incredibly good.
You either want to CC on cooldown (or as close as possible) or you only want to CC when you burst - this opens up the possibility of cc on cooldown for some builds.

Force pulse is an entirely different beast in pvp anyways. If you´re running that you´re most likely in a group with the size that makes the interrupt on shock irrelevant or you´re dueling (against classes where the interrupt is irrelevant).

The lightning version with clench is the strongest "ranged" aoe in the game aswell.

I bet you'll never use either the staff or the 2H