Shuffle Skill is going to be locked under Medium Armor - PVP

amir412

Honestly, can close this thread.
This game will keep getting shaped by casuals, who simply never dig enough in pvp or yet met the true cancer builds of this game. The sad thing is that you guys think u do.
Such a great combat system that designed by the needs of casuals, guess we'll just have to deal with it like every patch.

arkansas_ESO

Jaxaxo wrote: »

I really like those changes, ppl suggested this before.
About nb's major evasion, i would change it to minor. And buff other part of skill a little. Imo this would fix problem with only heavy nb having evasion. About mobility, u need to choose, either u run medium and can run shuffle, or u're tankier in heavy, but vulnerable to slows. Or run forward momentum, and boost your healing in other way. Making choices is good in pvp, u cant have everything.

Edit for typos

Evasion already isn't a very strong buff when you consider that most things that kill you are undodgeable anyways. Shuffle was used for the snare immunity, not for the dodge chance, so it makes no sense to nerf Mirage as it doesn't give snare immunity.

arkansas_ESO

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

RIP snare counterplay.

Preview of Cyrodiil gameplay:


Maybe this is their roundabount way of dealing with cyro lag -- if half the population is snared, everyone's character will run at the same speed as ZoS' servers.

Full heavy armor should not be highly mobile to begin with, not compared to medium armor. If they want the heavy armor meta to change, this change needs to happen. I find it a "semi-buff" to medium armor. Or at least a reason for people to run it more.

It's nowhere near enough for medium to compete, especially since shuffle and vigor were balanced in earlier patches independent of the armor requirement to be more expensive/lower chance.

This change is likely going to force forward momentum and 2h onto stam builds -- effectively removing stam's burst heal for an improperly tuned vigor. It's like they disregard or are unaware of all their own previous balance philosophies every-time enough newbs QQ on the forums about something.

Wouldn't it be better to just swap out Shuffle for Mist Form if your class needs the heal from Rally?

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Nobody used it for dodge chance. Most people in heavy want to get hit for wrath and constitution passives, as well as things like fury and 7th legion.

People use it for snare removal - because every skill in this game is a snare these days.

Blur is irrelevant really. Most stamblades are in medium as it is.

Come meet my stamina nb in heavy with blur... i'm sure u'll regret.

I use blur too, mirage specifically. Forward momentum instead of rally as well. Shuffle is to expensive IMHO. But I'm in medium armor not heavy. What heavy set are you using for your NB?

On topic.....I've said for the longest time 5 or more pieces to use each armor skill lines specific skill. NB has Blur, but every class has SOME type of skill someone at some point will call OP. However, in the 3 years I've played this game I've never heard anyone say Blur was OP, that being said it will be fine. NB in heavy won't suddenly become god mode.

Maybe you haven't heard complains about Blur because Shuffle is simply better?

that statement is rediculous in itself and I won't even entertain it as I could go on and on how about it.

If Blur is so much better than Shuffle, than why all the fuzz about being able to use it on heavy?

Blur and shuffle both grant the passive dodge. One grants minor resolve/ward or short duration of major exp., the other skill grants snare removal + immunity. Not to start about how it opens up rally instead of FM for a burst heal. But okay, be condescending.

Who the **** is saying blur is better than shuffle? Literally, in no statement, by anyone....in this entire thread....is anyone saying blur is better. The one dude is saying somehow NB will become OP since NB can still get major evasion in heavy armor while others can't. Completing ignoring any the skills other classes have that NB doesn't that will still make them more than viable in heavy armor.

This isn't about blur being better or worse than shuffle. Are we reading the same thread dude? What are you even talking about right now?

I mean....do you see the difference here, bud? It's not that blur is better than shuffle. People are salty and butt hurt because an NB will have major evasion while wearing heavy armor BECAUSE NB has blur, and no other class will get it (major evasion) without using specific sets that grant major evasion or the like.

I promise you, absolutely NOTHING WILL CHANGE WITH THE HEAVY ARMOR META! They will still have nasty damage output, good resource sustain, WAY better healing potential that medium armor, and MORE resistance!

If any of you are SO concerned, that losing a 15% chance to evade an attack, WHILE in heavy armor, is going to cause you to die.....I'm telling you now....you're not dying because of lack of the major evasion buff....there are much bigger problems involved....probably stemming from lack of skill and the inability to adapt. You can think that is condescending as much as you want, but it's simply the truth. The truth hurts. No longer having a 15% chance to dodge an attack is not the end of the world when heavy armor has so many other great things to offer.

O, and poor poor people. Having to choose between rally and FM. My goodness!

Seriously. I'm an NB in medium armor and even I DON'T need rally. If I don't need rally i doubt ANY other class needs it. I'll take FM thank you very much.

Lieblingsjunge

There's a difference between being casual and being biased. I know that you play stamina DK exclusively(Before you went back to mDK, probably as a silent protest but it's hilarious either way).
It's just bias all the way - and if you were able to see things from a neutral perspective, you would see that this change makes 100% sense.

Xsorus

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Nobody used it for dodge chance. Most people in heavy want to get hit for wrath and constitution passives, as well as things like fury and 7th legion.

People use it for snare removal - because every skill in this game is a snare these days.

Blur is irrelevant really. Most stamblades are in medium as it is.

Come meet my stamina nb in heavy with blur... i'm sure u'll regret.

I use blur too, mirage specifically. Forward momentum instead of rally as well. Shuffle is to expensive IMHO. But I'm in medium armor not heavy. What heavy set are you using for your NB?

On topic.....I've said for the longest time 5 or more pieces to use each armor skill lines specific skill. NB has Blur, but every class has SOME type of skill someone at some point will call OP. However, in the 3 years I've played this game I've never heard anyone say Blur was OP, that being said it will be fine. NB in heavy won't suddenly become god mode.

Maybe you haven't heard complains about Blur because Shuffle is simply better?

that statement is rediculous in itself and I won't even entertain it as I could go on and on how about it.

Drakk, I understand what you're saying but in the end, like every other skill in the game it will make people choose and readjust. I don't think people who rely heavily on rally will give it up for forward momentum. People are just going to cry because their heavy armor meta build has carried them for the last several months. They had damage, sustain, protection, and mobility without having to sacrifice anything else. While medium has what? The same but not as good even though the armor arch type dictates it should be better at some of those things? Take a look at the forums and the dozens of threads about the weakness of medium armor and how strong and overpowered heavy is for the majority of classes. You shouldn't be able to have the best of all worlds. Even if I don't agree with all those threads and what they say, perception is reality. A better balance is needed.

@Xsorus, I'm sure during your larping sessions you're fine rolling around in "heavy armor". But from my experience wearing a full kit and battle rattle that weighs less than actual "heavy armor" I assure you no one is dodge rolling around. That is possibly the most rediculous comments I've ever read on this forum. Save your BS for the movies and video games. And stop crutching on heavy armor and maybe you wouldn't mind the change so much. Yes it is from a balance stand point btw.

And whoever said if non NB heavy Armor users can't use shuffle NB can't use blur....okay, cool story bro, can NB haz healz then? Even as crappy as DK's heal has become I see that spammed all the time and it still works better than zero heals.

Who said anything about dodge rolling around you twit? Do you Dodge Roll around with Elude? No? Then maybe before you run that mouth of yours you actually read for once.

Also did you really just harp on me for crutching on heavy armor? You might want to go read through my post history and see what setups i'm running lately....

I swear....Some of you posters just boggle my mind...Like did they not ban Lead from paint where you lived at when you were young?

Vaoh

Kneighbors wrote: »

Very good change. Blur is their class skill, they can use it 24/7 same as Sorc can use his ward with heavy, DK his reflective scales, Templar blazing shield and so on....

If you implying that NB must have their Blur nerfed that means all of the above must be nerfed.

If you are still serious about it then
it's best to fully remove all the skills that have even slight difference between classes and then you will play sword against sword. Something tells me you will still find a reason to make a thread that it is unfair, OP, broken etc

^^^it's a great change for PvP imo. Gives Nightblades more of the inherent elusiveness they should clearly have access to since other classes will have much more difficulty gaining Major Evasion now. For Tava's tanks, and PvE in general where Evasion was sometimes used (tanking Axes in vAA, etc) this is a very bad change.

The game is being balanced for all content since ZOS doesn't want to separately balance their content. I think as a whole this is a good change though. I just hate to see what comes next as ZOS redesigns *all* of the class skill lines to be more like Wardens. We saw Spear Shards and Crystal Frags lose CC immunity, and Petrify/Rune Prison change to be the same. What's next? They're making huge changes no one asked for.

Taleof2Cities

This has the potential to be a great change but calling it that without testing in a Live environment is premature I think.

That said, it's really difficult to side with players who oppose the shuffle change due to posts like:

"I don't like this change but I don't really have a good reason to oppose it ... other than trying a bait-and-switch tactic by blaming casual players and/or balance."

Xsorus

Again I don't mind the armor skill change, yes it is a direct nerf to heavy based on what I consider silly whines with a lack of basis in actual gameplay of the game. I however dislike that you basically leave heavy with an armor skill that no one will use because it's complete ***.

No class in this game lacks for an armor buff already. Certainly not one that cost almost 5k stamina.

Lexxypwns

Xsorus wrote: »

Again I don't mind the armor skill change, yes it is a direct nerf to heavy based on what I consider silly whines with a lack of basis in actual gameplay of the game. I however dislike that you basically leave heavy with an armor skill that no one will use because it's complete ***.

No class in this game lacks for an armor buff already. Certainly not one that cost almost 5k stamina.

What's sad is how easy it would be to make immovable desirable

Xsorus

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Again I don't mind the armor skill change, yes it is a direct nerf to heavy based on what I consider silly whines with a lack of basis in actual gameplay of the game. I however dislike that you basically leave heavy with an armor skill that no one will use because it's complete ***.

No class in this game lacks for an armor buff already. Certainly not one that cost almost 5k stamina.

What's sad is how easy it would be to make immovable desirable

Ironically it use to actually be a good skill till they gutted it. It needs to be scrapped now and replaced with something more useful then a armor buff.

Lexxypwns

Xsorus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Again I don't mind the armor skill change, yes it is a direct nerf to heavy based on what I consider silly whines with a lack of basis in actual gameplay of the game. I however dislike that you basically leave heavy with an armor skill that no one will use because it's complete ***.

No class in this game lacks for an armor buff already. Certainly not one that cost almost 5k stamina.

What's sad is how easy it would be to make immovable desirable

Ironically it use to actually be a good skill till they gutted it. It needs to be scrapped now and replaced with something more useful then a armor buff.

It was on every persons bar in every serious group I was in for ages, it needed to be adjusted.now it just needs to cost the same as break free and give 8 seconds immunity so that if you use it proactively it eases stam management

SirMewser

amir412 wrote: »

AS ZOS annouced yesterday in eso live,
Heavy armor wont be able to use shuffle skill anymore, Which is a good thing. - Only if u wear 5 pieces of medium armor.

But i bet u forgot "Double Take " / "Blur" NB skill, what about it? I bet its going to work with heavy,
Gratz ZOS, ure just going to make heavy armor nb more broken than it is in the last few patch.

How stamina players is even going to compete vs Magicka players now?? Wearing med armor??? (Ya right...)
This change is nerfing Heavy armor to the ground, but yet its not buffing med armor, which cant even compete with light / heavy magicka users... like wtf?

Why stamina getting nerfed patch after patch, but magicka builds remain untouched??
Dont forget the "low cost" of Shuffle on heavy, 4.2k stamina cost pretty must *** up ur resources.


Do i even have the option now to 1 vs x, or small scale as stam player if im not a nb or a sorc? let the snare games begin.

How classes deals with snares open world -

Stam nb > Cloak
Stam Sorc > Streak
Stam Templar > Prufiy
Stam warden > Major exp wings + 15% less snare passive (lols)
Stam dk > ??????? Perma block???

I wanted to agree with your post and stopped reading as soon as I tried to understand the logic of removing "double take"/"blur" skills from a class, then penalize those who run heavy armor when the skills aren't even associated to the armor weight...

I'm sure ZoS has stopped reading there too (hopefully).

templesus

Lol just l2p. I play my stamplar and stam dk in medium and do fine 1vx. Stop cruching on heavy and git gud

Gamerscape2007

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Nobody used it for dodge chance. Most people in heavy want to get hit for wrath and constitution passives, as well as things like fury and 7th legion.

People use it for snare removal - because every skill in this game is a snare these days.

Blur is irrelevant really. Most stamblades are in medium as it is.

Come meet my stamina nb in heavy with blur... i'm sure u'll regret.

I use blur too, mirage specifically. Forward momentum instead of rally as well. Shuffle is to expensive IMHO. But I'm in medium armor not heavy. What heavy set are you using for your NB?

On topic.....I've said for the longest time 5 or more pieces to use each armor skill lines specific skill. NB has Blur, but every class has SOME type of skill someone at some point will call OP. However, in the 3 years I've played this game I've never heard anyone say Blur was OP, that being said it will be fine. NB in heavy won't suddenly become god mode.

Maybe you haven't heard complains about Blur because Shuffle is simply better?

that statement is rediculous in itself and I won't even entertain it as I could go on and on how about it.

If Blur is so much better than Shuffle, than why all the fuzz about being able to use it on heavy?

Blur and shuffle both grant the passive dodge. One grants minor resolve/ward or short duration of major exp., the other skill grants snare removal + immunity. Not to start about how it opens up rally instead of FM for a burst heal. But okay, be condescending.

Who the **** is saying blur is better than shuffle? Literally, in no statement, by anyone....in this entire thread....is anyone saying blur is better. The one dude is saying somehow NB will become OP since NB can still get major evasion in heavy armor while others can't. Completing ignoring any the skills other classes have that NB doesn't that will still make them more than viable in heavy armor.

This isn't about blur being better or worse than shuffle. Are we reading the same thread dude? What are you even talking about right now?

I mean....do you see the difference here, bud? It's not that blur is better than shuffle. People are salty and butt hurt because an NB will have major evasion while wearing heavy armor BECAUSE NB has blur, and no other class will get it (major evasion) without using specific sets that grant major evasion or the like.

I promise you, absolutely NOTHING WILL CHANGE WITH THE HEAVY ARMOR META! They will still have nasty damage output, good resource sustain, WAY better healing potential that medium armor, and MORE resistance!

If any of you are SO concerned, that losing a 15% chance to evade an attack, WHILE in heavy armor, is going to cause you to die.....I'm telling you now....you're not dying because of lack of the major evasion buff....there are much bigger problems involved....probably stemming from lack of skill and the inability to adapt. You can think that is condescending as much as you want, but it's simply the truth. The truth hurts. No longer having a 15% chance to dodge an attack is not the end of the world when heavy armor has so many other great things to offer.

O, and poor poor people. Having to choose between rally and FM. My goodness!

Seriously. I'm an NB in medium armor and even I DON'T need rally. If I don't need rally i doubt ANY other class needs it. I'll take FM thank you very much.

This is you right now.



Look like a clown, don't you?

amir412

templesus wrote: »

Lol just l2p. I play my stamplar and stam dk in medium and do fine 1vx. Stop cruching on heavy and git gud

PS4 pleb that fighting NPClike players telling me to git gud, gtfo dude lmao, u prolly think ure some kind of godlike right?

Simply pepole who approve this change cuz its simply just not affecting them, or they are just too scrubs to win against some1 who does use it, and i dont blame u if ure using medium armor - it surely needs a buff.
The thing is, ZOS should buff medium armor in a proper way, and not nerfing heavy armor to make med more "viable" which wont be.

AND AGAIN, I LITERALLY DONT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE 15% CHANCE (only heavy armor nb , which is beyond from broken will be the only class that can use it) , I JUST WANT SOMETHING TO DEAL WITH THE FREAKING SNARES ON MY MAIN CLASS. AND NO, FW IS NOT AN OPTION..

maybe writing in capslock will stop pepole from repeating the same damn question.

Aedaryl

The change makes sense and is good.

Major evasion in heavy is OP.

By making shuffle medium only, ZoS want heavy stamina build to choose Foward Mementum for removing snare, then lost a bit tankiness - which is fine, because heavy armor deal too much damage by being too much tanky. It will make heavy armor more tank oriented, like it should be. You can also choose to run a gap closer if you don't have, it will help to have mobility, but still no escape.

We finally have a counter to heavy stam build - make them stupid tanks by snaring them or make them less tanky by choosing FM.

The problem here is medium armor not being good enough to compete.

People should have the choice to pick up the mobility they want. But actually medium armor is cheese and too weak, for some reasons.

That's leave heavy armor stam user without choice. There is people who would like to have good mobility - especially in cyrodiil, but there are now forced to stay tank.

amir412

Aedaryl wrote: »

The change makes sense and is good.

Major evasion in heavy is OP.

By making shuffle medium only, ZoS want heavy stamina build to choose Foward Mementum for removing snare, then lost a bit tankiness - which is fine, because heavy armor deal too much damage by being too much tanky. It will make heavy armor more tank oriented, like it should be. You can also choose to run a gap closer if you don't have, it will help to have mobility, but still no escape.

We finally have a counter to heavy stam build - make them stupid tanks by snaring them or make them less tanky by choosing FM.

The problem here is medium armor not being good enough to compete.

People should have the choice to pick up the mobility they want. But actually medium armor is cheese and too weak, for some reasons.

That's leave heavy armor stam user without choice. There is people who would like to have good mobility - especially in cyrodiil, but there are now forced to stay tank.

This change will only hit heavy tanks, and stam dk the most... i promise u my friend, that ur frag will still one shot med armor users. (And im not even talking about ur 4 pets x).

Aedaryl

amir412 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

The change makes sense and is good.

Major evasion in heavy is OP.

By making shuffle medium only, ZoS want heavy stamina build to choose Foward Mementum for removing snare, then lost a bit tankiness - which is fine, because heavy armor deal too much damage by being too much tanky. It will make heavy armor more tank oriented, like it should be. You can also choose to run a gap closer if you don't have, it will help to have mobility, but still no escape.

We finally have a counter to heavy stam build - make them stupid tanks by snaring them or make them less tanky by choosing FM.

The problem here is medium armor not being good enough to compete.

People should have the choice to pick up the mobility they want. But actually medium armor is cheese and too weak, for some reasons.

That's leave heavy armor stam user without choice. There is people who would like to have good mobility - especially in cyrodiil, but there are now forced to stay tank.

This change will only hit heavy tanks, and stam dk the most... i promise u my friend, that ur frag will still one shot med armor users. (And im not even talking about ur 4 pets x).

Medium is too weak yeah, you want mobility and you should have the choice to pick up it from MA, but you will be forced to stay in heavy, and that's the problem - ZoS need to balance medium armor

Toc de Malsvi

Joy_Division wrote: »

I don;t understand the complaints.

One of the criticisms about heavy armor in PvP was that it was too strong because it could incorporate Shuffle into their builds/defenses. And, by the way, a fair amount of light armor (and heavy for that matter) magicka users also put Shuffle on their bars because its such a strong skill. Now only medium users can use the skill, which is probably how it should have been.

As far as NBs being the only class that can get major evasion on heavy armor, Good! That's great. This is one tiny tiny step going back to the games origins where being a class mattered, being a certain class allowed people to do unique things and have distinctive buffs, rather than generic bonuses/conditions available to everyone. We need more of this sort of thing, not less.

The only thing Wrobel forgot was to re-work the Elude morph, now that it's pretty much pointless since the base skill requires 5 medium pieces.

I think the complaints come from those that view shuffle as mandatory for their heavy builds against Magicka. Personally I don't think it fixes anything. A small subset of heavy wearers using shuffle will no longer be able to, that doesn't really benefit medium much, shuffle itself is entirely unnecessary.

More than 50% of PVP population already goes straight into undodgeables spam when they encounter a stam build. If you aren't using S&B on one bar as a stam build(non-NB), you are already at a significant disadvantage.

amir412

Aedaryl wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

The change makes sense and is good.

Major evasion in heavy is OP.

By making shuffle medium only, ZoS want heavy stamina build to choose Foward Mementum for removing snare, then lost a bit tankiness - which is fine, because heavy armor deal too much damage by being too much tanky. It will make heavy armor more tank oriented, like it should be. You can also choose to run a gap closer if you don't have, it will help to have mobility, but still no escape.

We finally have a counter to heavy stam build - make them stupid tanks by snaring them or make them less tanky by choosing FM.

The problem here is medium armor not being good enough to compete.

People should have the choice to pick up the mobility they want. But actually medium armor is cheese and too weak, for some reasons.

That's leave heavy armor stam user without choice. There is people who would like to have good mobility - especially in cyrodiil, but there are now forced to stay tank.

This change will only hit heavy tanks, and stam dk the most... i promise u my friend, that ur frag will still one shot med armor users. (And im not even talking about ur 4 pets x).

Medium is too weak yeah, you want mobility and you should have the choice to pick up it from MA, but you will be forced to stay in heavy, and that's the problem - ZoS need to balance medium armor

So basically, lets take a scenario where my dk duels ur sorc...
I wear medium armor - i die instantly.
I wear heavy armor - i get snared to death. i die, but slower.
I wear heavy and shuffle - I can reach to u, i can counter ur mines, but proably i'll still die cuz of ur pets.

-I'll let ur'e imagination tell u how this change gonna affect my solo play as stam dk.

How is this [snip] fixing the problem??
BTW in our last duel, i dont think u had a problem of me using shuffle..

[Edited to remove profanity]

templesus

amir412 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

The change makes sense and is good.

Major evasion in heavy is OP.

By making shuffle medium only, ZoS want heavy stamina build to choose Foward Mementum for removing snare, then lost a bit tankiness - which is fine, because heavy armor deal too much damage by being too much tanky. It will make heavy armor more tank oriented, like it should be. You can also choose to run a gap closer if you don't have, it will help to have mobility, but still no escape.

We finally have a counter to heavy stam build - make them stupid tanks by snaring them or make them less tanky by choosing FM.

The problem here is medium armor not being good enough to compete.

People should have the choice to pick up the mobility they want. But actually medium armor is cheese and too weak, for some reasons.

That's leave heavy armor stam user without choice. There is people who would like to have good mobility - especially in cyrodiil, but there are now forced to stay tank.

This change will only hit heavy tanks, and stam dk the most... i promise u my friend, that ur frag will still one shot med armor users. (And im not even talking about ur 4 pets x).

Medium is too weak yeah, you want mobility and you should have the choice to pick up it from MA, but you will be forced to stay in heavy, and that's the problem - ZoS need to balance medium armor

So basically, lets take a scenario where my dk duels ur sorc...
I wear medium armor - i die instantly.
I wear heavy armor - i get snared to death. i die, but slower.
I wear heavy and shuffle - I can reach to u, i can counter ur mines, but proably i'll still die cuz of ur pets.

-I'll let ur'e imagination tell u how this change gonna affect my solo play as stam dk.

How is this [snip] fixing the problem??
BTW in our last duel, i dont think u had a problem of me using shuffle..

Hearing way too many l2p issues. Have you even tried Stam DK in medium? I have multiple 1vx clips with it, it’s not as bad as everyone thinks it to be. For whatever reason people feel the need to believe heavy is necessary. And before you say something like “ you must not play stam dk “ I encourage you too look through my posts and you’ll find I’m the reason stam dk kept major mending...

[Edited for quote]

Aedaryl

amir412 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

The change makes sense and is good.

Major evasion in heavy is OP.

By making shuffle medium only, ZoS want heavy stamina build to choose Foward Mementum for removing snare, then lost a bit tankiness - which is fine, because heavy armor deal too much damage by being too much tanky. It will make heavy armor more tank oriented, like it should be. You can also choose to run a gap closer if you don't have, it will help to have mobility, but still no escape.

We finally have a counter to heavy stam build - make them stupid tanks by snaring them or make them less tanky by choosing FM.

The problem here is medium armor not being good enough to compete.

People should have the choice to pick up the mobility they want. But actually medium armor is cheese and too weak, for some reasons.

That's leave heavy armor stam user without choice. There is people who would like to have good mobility - especially in cyrodiil, but there are now forced to stay tank.

This change will only hit heavy tanks, and stam dk the most... i promise u my friend, that ur frag will still one shot med armor users. (And im not even talking about ur 4 pets x).

Medium is too weak yeah, you want mobility and you should have the choice to pick up it from MA, but you will be forced to stay in heavy, and that's the problem - ZoS need to balance medium armor

So basically, lets take a scenario where my dk duels ur sorc...
I wear medium armor - i die instantly.
I wear heavy armor - i get snared to death. i die, but slower.
I wear heavy and shuffle - I can reach to u, i can counter ur mines, but proably i'll still die cuz of ur pets.

-I'll let ur'e imagination tell u how this change gonna affect my solo play as stam dk.

How is this [snip] fixing the problem??
BTW in our last duel, i dont think u had a problem of me using shuffle..

As a pet sorc, I can't snare you, I've no place for mines, and with the frag nerf soon, I need to find a place for rune cage

With shuffle lost you can run a gap closer, kill my pets, and interrupt me, I will die 100% of times, because pet sorc is not viable when the ennemy have a gap closer or streak/BoL. Pets are easely killable, (33% less shield than me, and take 30% more damage (no defensive cps) than me, have no impen, cannot dodge/block a burst) and then, the 1.5s to recast is too long - if I streak into you (stunning you and taking range), you have the time to break, gap close me then interrupt me. If I streak twice, you have the time to kill the other pet while I summon the first or you can gap close me twice.

ZoS need to reduce the cast time of pets from 1.5s to 1s, even a half brain noob can kill me if he goes that way

Shuffle is unbalanced with heavy armor, because it give primery medium armor defense available to heavy armor. The timing of this change is bad, because it's happen in a meta where you can't choose mobility (cuz medium weak). But it still a good step for balance. Just a bad timing, nerfing you without choice.

templesus wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

The change makes sense and is good.

Major evasion in heavy is OP.

By making shuffle medium only, ZoS want heavy stamina build to choose Foward Mementum for removing snare, then lost a bit tankiness - which is fine, because heavy armor deal too much damage by being too much tanky. It will make heavy armor more tank oriented, like it should be. You can also choose to run a gap closer if you don't have, it will help to have mobility, but still no escape.

We finally have a counter to heavy stam build - make them stupid tanks by snaring them or make them less tanky by choosing FM.

The problem here is medium armor not being good enough to compete.

People should have the choice to pick up the mobility they want. But actually medium armor is cheese and too weak, for some reasons.

That's leave heavy armor stam user without choice. There is people who would like to have good mobility - especially in cyrodiil, but there are now forced to stay tank.

This change will only hit heavy tanks, and stam dk the most... i promise u my friend, that ur frag will still one shot med armor users. (And im not even talking about ur 4 pets x).

Medium is too weak yeah, you want mobility and you should have the choice to pick up it from MA, but you will be forced to stay in heavy, and that's the problem - ZoS need to balance medium armor

So basically, lets take a scenario where my dk duels ur sorc...
I wear medium armor - i die instantly.
I wear heavy armor - i get snared to death. i die, but slower.
I wear heavy and shuffle - I can reach to u, i can counter ur mines, but proably i'll still die cuz of ur pets.

-I'll let ur'e imagination tell u how this change gonna affect my solo play as stam dk.

How is this [snip] fixing the problem??
BTW in our last duel, i dont think u had a problem of me using shuffle..

Hearing way too many l2p issues. Have you even tried Stam DK in medium? I have multiple 1vx clips with it, it’s not as bad as everyone thinks it to be. For whatever reason people feel the need to believe heavy is necessary. And before you say something like “ you must not play stam dk “ I encourage you too look through my posts and you’ll find I’m the reason stam dk kept major mending...

Amir is not a noob, and don't need to L2P, medium armor is too weak, you can't compete with it, especially if you play Vivec EU.

[Edited for quote]

Subversus

0utLaw wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

How stamina players is even going to compete vs Magicka players now?? Wearing med armor??? (Ya right...)
This change is nerfing Heavy armor to the ground, but yet its not buffing med armor, which cant even compete with light / heavy magicka users... like wtf?

That's exactly what I think too. This change is so outrageous magicka favoured and won't really help out medium armor against Skoria, Soul Strike, Leap, Pigeons and all this undodgeable nonsense. Magicka temp/dk/nb/warden will just roll over medium armor builds with laughter now (in both, heavy and light armor - there's no way that medium can compete with light armor).

And yeah, stamnb will be ahead of other stam classes.

Dont forget the stupid magDK perma block dots... how u supposed to fight this in med armor?

Stop being bad.


The amount of crying in this thread is almost amazing.

Youre saying crying cuz simply ur main char is one, or ure just f*** blind...
I wanna see how med armor can survive vs those, show me.

Vapirko wrote: »

I play a heavy armor stamina NB mostly solo or very small groups and I approve this change. It gives a reason to wear medium. People mitigating damage and being able to dodge the rest of it passively is not ok. As a NB my bars are full of skills I really need and evade isn’t one of them.

AGAIN, no1 cares about the 15% lame dodge chance, i care about the snare removal. its pissing me off that heavy nb can still go away with it, but still, main problem is when u solo as a STAMDK, u cant remove the snares / cc that u get constantly every 2 seconds. (if not less)

0utLaw wrote: »

That's hilarious )

The only thing that is hilarious is the amount of times u tryharded / tried to kill me and failed. Maybe that will teach u how important shuffle is.

I don't know who you are to be honest

But what I do know, that you have lack of game knowledge, since after so many people already gave you a very fat hint how to remove snares without shuffle (cough*frwrdmmntm...), and you still in hysterics regarding the fact you won't be able to use shuffle with heavy. Sad.

He's one of the most well known players on PC EU, and probably has more stamdk knowledge than most of the guys posting in here.

I also don't know who the *** you are, and I don't understand how you, out of all the great players posting in here have the nerve to say something like that. Please sit down and be humble, let the big boys talk.

Zer0oo

amir412 wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Lol just l2p. I play my stamplar and stam dk in medium and do fine 1vx. Stop cruching on heavy and git gud

PS4 pleb that fighting NPClike players telling me to git gud, gtfo dude lmao, u prolly think ure some kind of godlike right?

Simply pepole who approve this change cuz its simply just not affecting them, or they are just too scrubs to win against some1 who does use it, and i dont blame u if ure using medium armor - it surely needs a buff.
The thing is, ZOS should buff medium armor in a proper way, and not nerfing heavy armor to make med more "viable" which wont be.

AND AGAIN, I LITERALLY DONT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE 15% CHANCE (only heavy armor nb , which is beyond from broken will be the only class that can use it) , I JUST WANT SOMETHING TO DEAL WITH THE FREAKING SNARES ON MY MAIN CLASS. AND NO, FW IS NOT AN OPTION..

maybe writing in capslock will stop pepole from repeating the same damn question.

There was once a thread asking to nerf snares. The answer i got is is: snares are fine and i should get a stam sorc friend that spammes rapid maneuver for me. Maybe now more ppl yell at the devs that all the snares are out of control.

amir412

Aedryl i do know how to kill a pet sorc, but in some situations (If u hide behind the pets, its just not possible, especially on the attronach phase.)

Subversus wrote: »

He's one of the most well known players on PC EU, and probably has more stamdk knowledge than most of the guys posting in here.

I also don't know who the *** you are, and I don't understand how you, out of all the great players posting in here have the nerve to say something like that. Please sit down and be humble, let the big boys talk.

lol, there is no1 here to talk to... i got bashed from all sides. we'll see how many stam dk's will solo next patch..

The Uninvited

RETREATING MANEUVER

Mobilize your forces, granting Major Expedition and Major Gallop to you and your group, increasing your Movement Speed by 30% and Mounted Speed by 30%.|Also grants immunity to snares and immobilizations, removing any already applied.|The effect ends if you cast any spell on an enemy or ally.

Morph Effect: Also removes all snares and immobilizations previously applied to you and your group.

Cast Time: Instant

Target: Area

Radius: 20 Meters

Duration: 30 Seconds

amir412

The Uninvited wrote: »

RETREATING MANEUVER

Mobilize your forces, granting Major Expedition and Major Gallop to you and your group, increasing your Movement Speed by 30% and Mounted Speed by 30%.|Also grants immunity to snares and immobilizations, removing any already applied.|The effect ends if you cast any spell on an enemy or ally.

Morph Effect: Also removes all snares and immobilizations previously applied to you and your group.

Cast Time: Instant

Target: Area

Radius: 20 Meters

Duration: 30 Seconds

RETREATING MANEUVER - THE SKILL WHOS GONNA COST 7-8k stam, but instantly breaks after u hit an enemy. nice one.

Zer0oo

The Uninvited wrote: »

RETREATING MANEUVER

Mobilize your forces, granting Major Expedition and Major Gallop to you and your group, increasing your Movement Speed by 30% and Mounted Speed by 30%.|Also grants immunity to snares and immobilizations, removing any already applied.|The effect ends if you cast any spell on an enemy or ally.

Morph Effect: Also removes all snares and immobilizations previously applied to you and your group.

Cast Time: Instant

Target: Area

Radius: 20 Meters

Duration: 30 Seconds

LOL

amir412

Zer0oo wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

RETREATING MANEUVER

Mobilize your forces, granting Major Expedition and Major Gallop to you and your group, increasing your Movement Speed by 30% and Mounted Speed by 30%.|Also grants immunity to snares and immobilizations, removing any already applied.|The effect ends if you cast any spell on an enemy or ally.

Morph Effect: Also removes all snares and immobilizations previously applied to you and your group.

Cast Time: Instant

Target: Area

Radius: 20 Meters

Duration: 30 Seconds

LOL

Thats exactly why this game will keep getting worse xD

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Wouldn't it be better to just swap out Shuffle for Mist Form if your class needs the heal from Rally?

Thats actually pretty good idea, for magDK's maybe.
How stam dk is better than magDK after this change? please do tell guys.