Time To Kill is way too high nowadays

IAVITNI

Feanor wrote: »

It has been suggested before, but I really think AP is the screw that has to be tightened. You need a strong incentive for people to stop zerging. I was acquiring Vigor the last 2 days on my teenish stam Warden. As it is EP I just went to Sotha Sil EU. It was very interesting to be in the very zerg I normally fight on my AD char.

Bottom line: You get 1,500 AP per resource regardless if it's a solo cap or 70 people. You get 4k to 6k for outpost regardless of group size. You get 6k to 8k per keep even if you roflstomp everything.

If it were 1k when more than 30 players of one alliance are around things might be different.

I definitely agree that zerging became more prominent after the changes to AP from keeps/resources. Initially it wasn't that bad because zergs could still be brought down by a well co-ordinated 4-man or even a 2-man if the skill gap was wide enough. It just doesn't work that way now. Not that I am advocating that it should. But consider 2 MMA fighters vs 24 kids running with sticks...

The problem is, before the AP adjustments, PvP lacked any incentivize to play objectively. The good players only wanted AP and taking a keep took forever because only a small percentage of players are actually incentivized to win the campaign. Yes, The Bridge is still a thing, but it was THE thing back in the day.

Also. I was as the bridge for a D-tick once. Worth.

Feanor

IAVITNI wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

It has been suggested before, but I really think AP is the screw that has to be tightened. You need a strong incentive for people to stop zerging. I was acquiring Vigor the last 2 days on my teenish stam Warden. As it is EP I just went to Sotha Sil EU. It was very interesting to be in the very zerg I normally fight on my AD char.

Bottom line: You get 1,500 AP per resource regardless if it's a solo cap or 70 people. You get 4k to 6k for outpost regardless of group size. You get 6k to 8k per keep even if you roflstomp everything.

If it were 1k when more than 30 players of one alliance are around things might be different.

I definitely agree that zerging became more prominent after the changes to AP from keeps/resources. Initially it wasn't that bad because zergs could still be brought down by a well co-ordinated 4-man or even a 2-man if the skill gap was wide enough. It just doesn't work that way now. Not that I am advocating that it should. But consider 2 MMA fighters vs 24 kids running with sticks...

The problem is, before the AP adjustments, PvP lacked any incentivize to play objectively. The good players only wanted AP and taking a keep took forever because only a small percentage of players are actually incentivized to win the campaign. Yes, The Bridge is still a thing, but it was THE thing back in the day.

Also. I was as the bridge for a D-tick once. Worth.

The problem is that AP is the be-all and the end-all of everything in Cyrodiil. The other rewards are so trashy that AP is the only thing that counts. Want to become Emperor? Farm AP. Want to buy stuff from the vendors? Farm AP. Want to advance your alliance rank? Farm AP. There is not a single situation where farming AP isn't better than doing something else.

I'd change the following:

1) Tie AP gain to group size more strictly. Anything above 24 in an area per alliance should decrease AP gain significantly. Also, if a keep of an outpost has an attacker:defender ratio more than 2:1, the d-tick is doubled and the o-tick halved on top.

2) Incentivize side quests. When did you do your last scouting or keep capture quest? I know mine was probably 2014 with the exception of the odd quest share when in a group. But don't just increase AP. Give out a gold jewelry piece where all sets in game are eligible upon completing 25 quests of each sort.

3) Change how the emperor is crowned. There have been good suggestions made in the past for that. Two keeps should be required for holding it instead of one, and you could even move away from the boring just ring keeps requirement.

4) Have dynamic map events. Like capture or defend objective X successfully and upon completion grant unique rewards instead of AP.

5) Make a campaign win meaningful again. Some thousand gold and a few purple pieces won't cut it. Also better rewards of the Worthy bags.

6) A new map layout would be nice. We've been playing the map for almost 4 years.

Just some ramblings from the top of my head.

Aedaryl

The fact is you can be permablocking without wearing tanking set or having full defensive bars.

You can build a DPS hwo can tank and permablocking - as a magicka or a stamina character just by building around passive and very few skills.

Blocking is actually to strong - because heavy armor give you stamina back, because sturdy + cps + S&B passives + heavy attacks + S&B ultimate.

For having a more balanced game, ZOS need to make a tank just a tank - not a DPS-HEALER-PERMABLOCKING TANK.

They need to nerf heavy armor :

- by delete wrath passive.
- by delete ressource passive on heavy attacks
- by nerfing damage sets in heavy : like fury, ravager and all that ***.

They need to nerf defensive ultimate :

You can actually spam S&B ultimate or reso or warden three. ZOS need to increase the ultimate cost to 150 minimum for theze ultimates.

By nerfing S&B :

We all know that heavy armorstamina dk-sorc-templar-warden in S&B and 2H Spamming that skill providing MAJOR DEFILE + STUN + GOOD DAMAGE (you can easely make a light attack - skill - bash).

ZoS need to remove Major defile on this skill. Reducing your ennemy heal by 30-45% is a kind of way to deal significantly more damage.

Theze build overperform in 1v1 while shining in outnumbered situations : You are tanky - you deal good damage and you have great heal.

Derra

Aedaryl wrote: »

The fact is you can be permablocking without wearing tanking set or having full defensive bars.

You can build a DPS hwo can tank and permablocking - as a magicka or a stamina character just by building around passive and very few skills.

Blocking is actually to strong - because heavy armor give you stamina back, because sturdy + cps + S&B passives + heavy attacks + S&B ultimate.

For having a more balanced game, ZOS need to make a tank just a tank - not a DPS-HEALER-PERMABLOCKING TANK.

They need to nerf heavy armor :

- by delete wrath passive.
- by delete ressource passive on heavy attacks
- by nerfing damage sets in heavy : like fury, ravager and all that ***.

They need to nerf defensive ultimate :

You can actually spam S&B ultimate or reso or warden three. ZOS need to increase the ultimate cost to 150 minimum for theze ultimates.

By nerfing S&B :

We all know that heavy armorstamina dk-sorc-templar-warden in S&B and 2H Spamming that skill providing MAJOR DEFILE + STUN + GOOD DAMAGE (you can easely make a light attack - skill - bash).

ZoS need to remove Major defile on this skill. Reducing your ennemy heal by 30-45% is a kind of way to deal significantly more damage.

Theze build overperform in 1v1 while shining in outnumbered situations : You are tanky - you deal good damage and you have great heal.

I don´t think the problem lies with heavyarmor alone but the combination of 1h + shield and healing.

Imo blocking with defensive weapons (ice staff and sword and board) should apply a debuff that reduces healing done continuously while blocking (also with s&b ultimate) and is reset after 4s of not blocking.

The adjustments needed for heavy armor alone compared to medium or light are relatively small unless coupled with block.

technohic

Derra wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

The fact is you can be permablocking without wearing tanking set or having full defensive bars.

You can build a DPS hwo can tank and permablocking - as a magicka or a stamina character just by building around passive and very few skills.

Blocking is actually to strong - because heavy armor give you stamina back, because sturdy + cps + S&B passives + heavy attacks + S&B ultimate.

For having a more balanced game, ZOS need to make a tank just a tank - not a DPS-HEALER-PERMABLOCKING TANK.

They need to nerf heavy armor :

- by delete wrath passive.
- by delete ressource passive on heavy attacks
- by nerfing damage sets in heavy : like fury, ravager and all that ***.

They need to nerf defensive ultimate :

You can actually spam S&B ultimate or reso or warden three. ZOS need to increase the ultimate cost to 150 minimum for theze ultimates.

By nerfing S&B :

We all know that heavy armorstamina dk-sorc-templar-warden in S&B and 2H Spamming that skill providing MAJOR DEFILE + STUN + GOOD DAMAGE (you can easely make a light attack - skill - bash).

ZoS need to remove Major defile on this skill. Reducing your ennemy heal by 30-45% is a kind of way to deal significantly more damage.

Theze build overperform in 1v1 while shining in outnumbered situations : You are tanky - you deal good damage and you have great heal.

I don´t think the problem lies with heavyarmor alone but the combination of 1h + shield and healing.

Imo blocking with defensive weapons (ice staff and sword and board) should apply a debuff that reduces healing done continuously while blocking (also with s&b ultimate) and is reset after 4s of not blocking.

The adjustments needed for heavy armor alone compared to medium or light are relatively small unless coupled with block.

I'd be ok with them adding that as a passive that adds buffs to block to then include a debuff to healing while blocking, but should go for offensive abilities also. 4 seconds is way too long though. Actually not sure how you'd do that and not really just nerf people who just happened to reactively block which is not the problem.

kaithuzar

The funny thing about those defile reverb bash builds is that they also run the skill which reduces your damage to them (can't remember if low slash or puncture) It's an old build typically used in 1v1, I think sribes created it years ago.

Derra

technohic wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

The fact is you can be permablocking without wearing tanking set or having full defensive bars.

You can build a DPS hwo can tank and permablocking - as a magicka or a stamina character just by building around passive and very few skills.

Blocking is actually to strong - because heavy armor give you stamina back, because sturdy + cps + S&B passives + heavy attacks + S&B ultimate.

For having a more balanced game, ZOS need to make a tank just a tank - not a DPS-HEALER-PERMABLOCKING TANK.

They need to nerf heavy armor :

- by delete wrath passive.
- by delete ressource passive on heavy attacks
- by nerfing damage sets in heavy : like fury, ravager and all that ***.

They need to nerf defensive ultimate :

You can actually spam S&B ultimate or reso or warden three. ZOS need to increase the ultimate cost to 150 minimum for theze ultimates.

By nerfing S&B :

We all know that heavy armorstamina dk-sorc-templar-warden in S&B and 2H Spamming that skill providing MAJOR DEFILE + STUN + GOOD DAMAGE (you can easely make a light attack - skill - bash).

ZoS need to remove Major defile on this skill. Reducing your ennemy heal by 30-45% is a kind of way to deal significantly more damage.

Theze build overperform in 1v1 while shining in outnumbered situations : You are tanky - you deal good damage and you have great heal.

I don´t think the problem lies with heavyarmor alone but the combination of 1h + shield and healing.

Imo blocking with defensive weapons (ice staff and sword and board) should apply a debuff that reduces healing done continuously while blocking (also with s&b ultimate) and is reset after 4s of not blocking.

The adjustments needed for heavy armor alone compared to medium or light are relatively small unless coupled with block.

I'd be ok with them adding that as a passive that adds buffs to block to then include a debuff to healing while blocking, but should go for offensive abilities also. 4 seconds is way too long though. Actually not sure how you'd do that and not really just nerf people who just happened to reactively block which is not the problem.

just make it scale up over the course of 10 to 20s with no malus for up to 2s of blocking?

Subversus

Derra wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

The fact is you can be permablocking without wearing tanking set or having full defensive bars.

You can build a DPS hwo can tank and permablocking - as a magicka or a stamina character just by building around passive and very few skills.

Blocking is actually to strong - because heavy armor give you stamina back, because sturdy + cps + S&B passives + heavy attacks + S&B ultimate.

For having a more balanced game, ZOS need to make a tank just a tank - not a DPS-HEALER-PERMABLOCKING TANK.

They need to nerf heavy armor :

- by delete wrath passive.
- by delete ressource passive on heavy attacks
- by nerfing damage sets in heavy : like fury, ravager and all that ***.

They need to nerf defensive ultimate :

You can actually spam S&B ultimate or reso or warden three. ZOS need to increase the ultimate cost to 150 minimum for theze ultimates.

By nerfing S&B :

We all know that heavy armorstamina dk-sorc-templar-warden in S&B and 2H Spamming that skill providing MAJOR DEFILE + STUN + GOOD DAMAGE (you can easely make a light attack - skill - bash).

ZoS need to remove Major defile on this skill. Reducing your ennemy heal by 30-45% is a kind of way to deal significantly more damage.

Theze build overperform in 1v1 while shining in outnumbered situations : You are tanky - you deal good damage and you have great heal.

I don´t think the problem lies with heavyarmor alone but the combination of 1h + shield and healing.

Imo blocking with defensive weapons (ice staff and sword and board) should apply a debuff that reduces healing done continuously while blocking (also with s&b ultimate) and is reset after 4s of not blocking.

The adjustments needed for heavy armor alone compared to medium or light are relatively small unless coupled with block.

Merciless breaks block, because it's a channel. Maybe make it so that all abilities break block? It feels like a dragonknight shouldn't be able to throw it's hands up in the air while casting volatile armor AND still hold a shield up somehow.......

STEVIL

Hollery wrote: »

At a certain point you learn to ignore tanks and keep moving

Patient: "Doctor, it feels bad when i do this."
Doctor: "Don't keep doing that then."

Lylith

Hollery wrote: »

At a certain point you learn to ignore tanks and keep moving

and he'll take flight right into your back and beat you down like a dog.

'tanks' can do considerable damage in this present iteration.

Waffennacht

pieratsos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Try noCP; profit.

The problem the OP describes is a fundamental part of ESO combat mechanics, gear, ability choices, etc., that go beyond CP. I've played in more than enough Battlegrounds to see the same sort of defensive tank builds that resist the attempts of multiple players to kill them, and in no CP I have less hitting power, less resources, and less of my build devoted to the damage needed to bring them down. My ult generates just as fast and stuff like trees, resto ult, and sword and shield are relatively stronger in no CP since players aren't putting out as much damage.

Just No. Time to kill is significantly lower in noCP-- cheese builds still exist there, but they don't have access to Cheese Points to augment the cheese even further; CP currently favors higher mitigation than added dmg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4TYI8gC48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mmz-umbuFk

A temp or DK can just put on Reactive, Pirate skeleton and Mist form in-between sword and board ults in no CP.

Where Oblivion Damage comes in.

I'm sad they didn't listen and nerfed Oblivion Glyph by too much...

So the solution to every problem we have is a mechanic removing skill from the game.

It would've been a solution, as is, like I said, Oblivion Damage Glyphs are no longer viable. Like I said, anything more than a 20% nerf was a death knell. And it was

Derra

Waffennacht wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Try noCP; profit.

The problem the OP describes is a fundamental part of ESO combat mechanics, gear, ability choices, etc., that go beyond CP. I've played in more than enough Battlegrounds to see the same sort of defensive tank builds that resist the attempts of multiple players to kill them, and in no CP I have less hitting power, less resources, and less of my build devoted to the damage needed to bring them down. My ult generates just as fast and stuff like trees, resto ult, and sword and shield are relatively stronger in no CP since players aren't putting out as much damage.

Just No. Time to kill is significantly lower in noCP-- cheese builds still exist there, but they don't have access to Cheese Points to augment the cheese even further; CP currently favors higher mitigation than added dmg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4TYI8gC48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mmz-umbuFk

A temp or DK can just put on Reactive, Pirate skeleton and Mist form in-between sword and board ults in no CP.

Where Oblivion Damage comes in.

I'm sad they didn't listen and nerfed Oblivion Glyph by too much...

So the solution to every problem we have is a mechanic removing skill from the game.

It would've been a solution, as is, like I said, Oblivion Damage Glyphs are no longer viable. Like I said, anything more than a 20% nerf was a death knell. And it was

No oblivion glyphs are still fine.

The reason why they are bad vs tanks is because enchantments are bugged currently and can not procc against blocking targets.

Waffennacht

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Try noCP; profit.

The problem the OP describes is a fundamental part of ESO combat mechanics, gear, ability choices, etc., that go beyond CP. I've played in more than enough Battlegrounds to see the same sort of defensive tank builds that resist the attempts of multiple players to kill them, and in no CP I have less hitting power, less resources, and less of my build devoted to the damage needed to bring them down. My ult generates just as fast and stuff like trees, resto ult, and sword and shield are relatively stronger in no CP since players aren't putting out as much damage.

Just No. Time to kill is significantly lower in noCP-- cheese builds still exist there, but they don't have access to Cheese Points to augment the cheese even further; CP currently favors higher mitigation than added dmg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4TYI8gC48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mmz-umbuFk

A temp or DK can just put on Reactive, Pirate skeleton and Mist form in-between sword and board ults in no CP.

Where Oblivion Damage comes in.

I'm sad they didn't listen and nerfed Oblivion Glyph by too much...

So the solution to every problem we have is a mechanic removing skill from the game.

It would've been a solution, as is, like I said, Oblivion Damage Glyphs are no longer viable. Like I said, anything more than a 20% nerf was a death knell. And it was

No oblivion glyphs are still fine.

The reason why they are bad vs tanks is because enchantments are bugged currently and can not procc against blocking targets.

Most players don't even know that, I still doubt (once fixed or if) it's still not gonna be used.

What, with infused, it's like 1.8k DMG? Against 30-50k health, that's not gonna make a difference.

Well in my opinion.

Subversus

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Try noCP; profit.

The problem the OP describes is a fundamental part of ESO combat mechanics, gear, ability choices, etc., that go beyond CP. I've played in more than enough Battlegrounds to see the same sort of defensive tank builds that resist the attempts of multiple players to kill them, and in no CP I have less hitting power, less resources, and less of my build devoted to the damage needed to bring them down. My ult generates just as fast and stuff like trees, resto ult, and sword and shield are relatively stronger in no CP since players aren't putting out as much damage.

Just No. Time to kill is significantly lower in noCP-- cheese builds still exist there, but they don't have access to Cheese Points to augment the cheese even further; CP currently favors higher mitigation than added dmg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4TYI8gC48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mmz-umbuFk

A temp or DK can just put on Reactive, Pirate skeleton and Mist form in-between sword and board ults in no CP.

Where Oblivion Damage comes in.

I'm sad they didn't listen and nerfed Oblivion Glyph by too much...

So the solution to every problem we have is a mechanic removing skill from the game.

It would've been a solution, as is, like I said, Oblivion Damage Glyphs are no longer viable. Like I said, anything more than a 20% nerf was a death knell. And it was

No oblivion glyphs are still fine.

The reason why they are bad vs tanks is because enchantments are bugged currently and can not procc against blocking targets.

Most players don't even know that, I still doubt (once fixed or if) it's still not gonna be used.

What, with infused, it's like 1.8k DMG? Against 30-50k health, that's not gonna make a difference.

Well in my opinion.

Your opinion is totally justified. Why would anyone in their right mind drop a 1.8k damage glyph for a shock or a disease enchant that both provide great benefits as well as get boosted by CP.

Koolio

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

A nerf tank post because a nb cant oneshoot other player anymore.

Problem being - with how strong healing in this game is:
If you can´t oneshot a player on a non dot build you will never kill them if they´re not outclassed.

Oneshot meaning a burst combo of usually 3 to 5 abilities.

I believe the definition of the highlighted word contradicts the following words.

There is no classic onehit.

The last time that happened was in 1.6 snipes for 25k+ afaik.

All "oneshots" involve comboing multiple abilities to hit in a narrow timeframe.

Disagree, @Lexxypwns can literally 1 shot me with Assassin's Will - well until I changed my build

This is true, I 1 shot people with empowered assassin's will crits and I'm not even in a crazy high damage spec. I saw a screenshot the other day of a 32k assassins will crit on a player from one of my mageblade buddies, he's running 5 alch 5 maiden though

Hit a 17.2k snipe and prismatic enchant procs for 7k. One pull of R2 and someone died.

Also hit a 22k meteor from stealth.

These happen once every month or so. But I have definitely oneshot people.

When procs could crit i bashed someone on their mount. 2k bash 7k Viper 12k Selene 4k red mountain. But I don't really consider that a 1 shot though.

Derra

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Try noCP; profit.

The problem the OP describes is a fundamental part of ESO combat mechanics, gear, ability choices, etc., that go beyond CP. I've played in more than enough Battlegrounds to see the same sort of defensive tank builds that resist the attempts of multiple players to kill them, and in no CP I have less hitting power, less resources, and less of my build devoted to the damage needed to bring them down. My ult generates just as fast and stuff like trees, resto ult, and sword and shield are relatively stronger in no CP since players aren't putting out as much damage.

Just No. Time to kill is significantly lower in noCP-- cheese builds still exist there, but they don't have access to Cheese Points to augment the cheese even further; CP currently favors higher mitigation than added dmg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4TYI8gC48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mmz-umbuFk

A temp or DK can just put on Reactive, Pirate skeleton and Mist form in-between sword and board ults in no CP.

Where Oblivion Damage comes in.

I'm sad they didn't listen and nerfed Oblivion Glyph by too much...

So the solution to every problem we have is a mechanic removing skill from the game.

It would've been a solution, as is, like I said, Oblivion Damage Glyphs are no longer viable. Like I said, anything more than a 20% nerf was a death knell. And it was

No oblivion glyphs are still fine.

The reason why they are bad vs tanks is because enchantments are bugged currently and can not procc against blocking targets.

Most players don't even know that, I still doubt (once fixed or if) it's still not gonna be used.

What, with infused, it's like 1.8k DMG? Against 30-50k health, that's not gonna make a difference.

Well in my opinion.

Well atleast for me personally problems against tanks only start at sub ~20% health.
That´s where undeath really kicks and at that point my DPS usually drops. Having a glyph that will du full dmg against someone like that will be a huge boon.

It´s still an assumption but it´s based on how effective infused oblivion is against heavyarmor healing ward only builds. It´s a gamechanger there.

Derra

Koolio wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

A nerf tank post because a nb cant oneshoot other player anymore.

Problem being - with how strong healing in this game is:
If you can´t oneshot a player on a non dot build you will never kill them if they´re not outclassed.

Oneshot meaning a burst combo of usually 3 to 5 abilities.

I believe the definition of the highlighted word contradicts the following words.

There is no classic onehit.

The last time that happened was in 1.6 snipes for 25k+ afaik.

All "oneshots" involve comboing multiple abilities to hit in a narrow timeframe.

Disagree, @Lexxypwns can literally 1 shot me with Assassin's Will - well until I changed my build

This is true, I 1 shot people with empowered assassin's will crits and I'm not even in a crazy high damage spec. I saw a screenshot the other day of a 32k assassins will crit on a player from one of my mageblade buddies, he's running 5 alch 5 maiden though

Hit a 17.2k snipe and prismatic enchant procs for 7k. One pull of R2 and someone died.

Also hit a 22k meteor from stealth.

These happen once every month or so. But I have definitely oneshot people.

When procs could crit i bashed someone on their mount. 2k bash 7k Viper 12k Selene 4k red mountain. But I don't really consider that a 1 shot though.

I´ll rephrase to:

You won´t/can´t reliably oneshot a player that´s not a 100% glasscannon build.

Qbiken

STEVIL wrote: »

Hollery wrote: »

At a certain point you learn to ignore tanks and keep moving

Patient: "Doctor, it feels bad when i do this."
Doctor: "Don't keep doing that then."

As someone who works with healthcare (I´m a physiotherapist), you´ve no idea how spot on this is...

Ragnaroek93

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Try noCP; profit.

The problem the OP describes is a fundamental part of ESO combat mechanics, gear, ability choices, etc., that go beyond CP. I've played in more than enough Battlegrounds to see the same sort of defensive tank builds that resist the attempts of multiple players to kill them, and in no CP I have less hitting power, less resources, and less of my build devoted to the damage needed to bring them down. My ult generates just as fast and stuff like trees, resto ult, and sword and shield are relatively stronger in no CP since players aren't putting out as much damage.

Just No. Time to kill is significantly lower in noCP-- cheese builds still exist there, but they don't have access to Cheese Points to augment the cheese even further; CP currently favors higher mitigation than added dmg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4TYI8gC48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mmz-umbuFk

A temp or DK can just put on Reactive, Pirate skeleton and Mist form in-between sword and board ults in no CP.

Where Oblivion Damage comes in.

I'm sad they didn't listen and nerfed Oblivion Glyph by too much...

So the solution to every problem we have is a mechanic removing skill from the game.

It would've been a solution, as is, like I said, Oblivion Damage Glyphs are no longer viable. Like I said, anything more than a 20% nerf was a death knell. And it was

No oblivion glyphs are still fine.

The reason why they are bad vs tanks is because enchantments are bugged currently and can not procc against blocking targets.

Most players don't even know that, I still doubt (once fixed or if) it's still not gonna be used.

What, with infused, it's like 1.8k DMG? Against 30-50k health, that's not gonna make a difference.

Well in my opinion.

Oblivion damage itself is extremely bad designed since it deals true damage without any chance on counterplay. Just imagine these glyphs would deal as much damage as other enchants with the difference that it ignores every defense. I'd rather have ZOS destroying the oblivion glyph than the oblivion glyph destroying the PvP.

Cinbri

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Try noCP; profit.

The problem the OP describes is a fundamental part of ESO combat mechanics, gear, ability choices, etc., that go beyond CP. I've played in more than enough Battlegrounds to see the same sort of defensive tank builds that resist the attempts of multiple players to kill them, and in no CP I have less hitting power, less resources, and less of my build devoted to the damage needed to bring them down. My ult generates just as fast and stuff like trees, resto ult, and sword and shield are relatively stronger in no CP since players aren't putting out as much damage.

Just No. Time to kill is significantly lower in noCP-- cheese builds still exist there, but they don't have access to Cheese Points to augment the cheese even further; CP currently favors higher mitigation than added dmg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4TYI8gC48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mmz-umbuFk

A temp or DK can just put on Reactive, Pirate skeleton and Mist form in-between sword and board ults in no CP.

Where Oblivion Damage comes in.

I'm sad they didn't listen and nerfed Oblivion Glyph by too much...

So the solution to every problem we have is a mechanic removing skill from the game.

It would've been a solution, as is, like I said, Oblivion Damage Glyphs are no longer viable. Like I said, anything more than a 20% nerf was a death knell. And it was

No oblivion glyphs are still fine.

The reason why they are bad vs tanks is because enchantments are bugged currently and can not procc against blocking targets.

Most players don't even know that, I still doubt (once fixed or if) it's still not gonna be used.

What, with infused, it's like 1.8k DMG? Against 30-50k health, that's not gonna make a difference.

Well in my opinion.

Well atleast for me personally problems against tanks only start at sub ~20% health.
That´s where undeath really kicks and at that point my DPS usually drops. Having a glyph that will du full dmg against someone like that will be a huge boon.

It´s still an assumption but it´s based on how effective infused oblivion is against heavyarmor healing ward only builds. It´s a gamechanger there.

Agree. I constantly getting killing blows by damage health recap against shieldstackers because they an achieve undestructible 20k+ shields when they almost dead, and those shields just not work vs oblivion. It would be same effective vs permablockers if it would actually works against them. It is like every single bg match where there is short time span when just 1 oblivion proc and heavy armor permablocking would be dead, but sadly they an just hold block and heal back.
P.S.: oblivion enchant plays role of much weaker but uncounterable execute.

pieratsos

Waffennacht wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Try noCP; profit.

The problem the OP describes is a fundamental part of ESO combat mechanics, gear, ability choices, etc., that go beyond CP. I've played in more than enough Battlegrounds to see the same sort of defensive tank builds that resist the attempts of multiple players to kill them, and in no CP I have less hitting power, less resources, and less of my build devoted to the damage needed to bring them down. My ult generates just as fast and stuff like trees, resto ult, and sword and shield are relatively stronger in no CP since players aren't putting out as much damage.

Just No. Time to kill is significantly lower in noCP-- cheese builds still exist there, but they don't have access to Cheese Points to augment the cheese even further; CP currently favors higher mitigation than added dmg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4TYI8gC48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mmz-umbuFk

A temp or DK can just put on Reactive, Pirate skeleton and Mist form in-between sword and board ults in no CP.

Where Oblivion Damage comes in.

I'm sad they didn't listen and nerfed Oblivion Glyph by too much...

So the solution to every problem we have is a mechanic removing skill from the game.

It would've been a solution, as is, like I said, Oblivion Damage Glyphs are no longer viable. Like I said, anything more than a 20% nerf was a death knell. And it was

You call the proc meta bs but oblivion dmg is fine? Its literally the exact same concept. Unavoidable dmg. In fact oblivion glyphs were the pinnacle of the proc meta.

Oblivion glyphs werent nerfed at the time of those videos posted here. And oblivion glyphs also had a much bigger impact against normal builds. So no, its not a solution. Mechanics, sets, abilities removing skill from the game are not the solution to anything. They make things worse. They are the reason PVP is in this state.

Waffennacht

pieratsos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Try noCP; profit.

The problem the OP describes is a fundamental part of ESO combat mechanics, gear, ability choices, etc., that go beyond CP. I've played in more than enough Battlegrounds to see the same sort of defensive tank builds that resist the attempts of multiple players to kill them, and in no CP I have less hitting power, less resources, and less of my build devoted to the damage needed to bring them down. My ult generates just as fast and stuff like trees, resto ult, and sword and shield are relatively stronger in no CP since players aren't putting out as much damage.

Just No. Time to kill is significantly lower in noCP-- cheese builds still exist there, but they don't have access to Cheese Points to augment the cheese even further; CP currently favors higher mitigation than added dmg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4TYI8gC48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mmz-umbuFk

A temp or DK can just put on Reactive, Pirate skeleton and Mist form in-between sword and board ults in no CP.

Where Oblivion Damage comes in.

I'm sad they didn't listen and nerfed Oblivion Glyph by too much...

So the solution to every problem we have is a mechanic removing skill from the game.

It would've been a solution, as is, like I said, Oblivion Damage Glyphs are no longer viable. Like I said, anything more than a 20% nerf was a death knell. And it was

You call the proc meta bs but oblivion dmg is fine? Its literally the exact same concept. Unavoidable dmg. In fact oblivion glyphs were the pinnacle of the proc meta.

Oblivion glyphs werent nerfed at the time of those videos posted here. And oblivion glyphs also had a much bigger impact against normal builds. So no, its not a solution. Mechanics, sets, abilities removing skill from the game are not the solution to anything. They make things worse. They are the reason PVP is in this state.

2-3k Oblivion Damage is nowhere near 20k DMG from proc sets.

I said at the time Torug + Oblivion was Too much, I also said anything above 20% nerf was Too much.

Why do I even say this?

Because I don't see any change to block that's gonna make permablocking less viable, - cost increase did nothing, the only change that would work involves a complete change to the mechanics (or Passives) which won't happen any time soon.

So, outside of bleed, what counter to permablocker is there?

Subversus

Waffennacht wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Try noCP; profit.

The problem the OP describes is a fundamental part of ESO combat mechanics, gear, ability choices, etc., that go beyond CP. I've played in more than enough Battlegrounds to see the same sort of defensive tank builds that resist the attempts of multiple players to kill them, and in no CP I have less hitting power, less resources, and less of my build devoted to the damage needed to bring them down. My ult generates just as fast and stuff like trees, resto ult, and sword and shield are relatively stronger in no CP since players aren't putting out as much damage.

Just No. Time to kill is significantly lower in noCP-- cheese builds still exist there, but they don't have access to Cheese Points to augment the cheese even further; CP currently favors higher mitigation than added dmg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4TYI8gC48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mmz-umbuFk

A temp or DK can just put on Reactive, Pirate skeleton and Mist form in-between sword and board ults in no CP.

Where Oblivion Damage comes in.

I'm sad they didn't listen and nerfed Oblivion Glyph by too much...

So the solution to every problem we have is a mechanic removing skill from the game.

It would've been a solution, as is, like I said, Oblivion Damage Glyphs are no longer viable. Like I said, anything more than a 20% nerf was a death knell. And it was

You call the proc meta bs but oblivion dmg is fine? Its literally the exact same concept. Unavoidable dmg. In fact oblivion glyphs were the pinnacle of the proc meta.

Oblivion glyphs werent nerfed at the time of those videos posted here. And oblivion glyphs also had a much bigger impact against normal builds. So no, its not a solution. Mechanics, sets, abilities removing skill from the game are not the solution to anything. They make things worse. They are the reason PVP is in this state.

2-3k Oblivion Damage is nowhere near 20k DMG from proc sets.

I said at the time Torug + Oblivion was Too much, I also said anything above 20% nerf was Too much.

Why do I even say this?

Because I don't see any change to block that's gonna make permablocking less viable, - cost increase did nothing, the only change that would work involves a complete change to the mechanics (or Passives) which won't happen any time soon.

So, outside of bleed, what counter to permablocker is there?

Well now, that's funny... it actually did a bunch for the people that weren't permablocking and were using block just from time to time for survival.

Chilly-McFreeze

ChandraNalaar wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

ZOS needs to destroy the damage-dealing potential of Sword n' Board (maybe make SnB reduce Wep dmg by 10% instead of increase by 5%), and reduce (not remove) the damage-dealing potential of Heavy Armor. Remove wep/spell dmg from wrath and add something decent for survival.

Sets like Seventh Legion and Ravager need to be looked at as well. Fury is fine since you have to get hit a bunch, there is counterplay. But the other 2 sets just have a basic % proc chance to turn you into a BAMF.

Point for doing these things is with these changes we will see ppl switch to light/med over heavy so they can continue to do damage. We can still have tanks in the game and ppl need to learn to deal with that. What we don't need is ppl who can block almost endlessly and still put out enough burst to kill.

SnB should never have been given offensive passives/abilities, just like heavy armor should never have had the bracing passive taken away and wrath put in its place. If you go heavy armor/SnB, you should be signing up for a permablock build with no damage, not a build that can swap between offensive and defensive at the drop of a hat.

Waffennacht wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Try noCP; profit.

The problem the OP describes is a fundamental part of ESO combat mechanics, gear, ability choices, etc., that go beyond CP. I've played in more than enough Battlegrounds to see the same sort of defensive tank builds that resist the attempts of multiple players to kill them, and in no CP I have less hitting power, less resources, and less of my build devoted to the damage needed to bring them down. My ult generates just as fast and stuff like trees, resto ult, and sword and shield are relatively stronger in no CP since players aren't putting out as much damage.

Just No. Time to kill is significantly lower in noCP-- cheese builds still exist there, but they don't have access to Cheese Points to augment the cheese even further; CP currently favors higher mitigation than added dmg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4TYI8gC48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mmz-umbuFk

A temp or DK can just put on Reactive, Pirate skeleton and Mist form in-between sword and board ults in no CP.

Where Oblivion Damage comes in.

I'm sad they didn't listen and nerfed Oblivion Glyph by too much...

So the solution to every problem we have is a mechanic removing skill from the game.

It would've been a solution, as is, like I said, Oblivion Damage Glyphs are no longer viable. Like I said, anything more than a 20% nerf was a death knell. And it was

You call the proc meta bs but oblivion dmg is fine? Its literally the exact same concept. Unavoidable dmg. In fact oblivion glyphs were the pinnacle of the proc meta.

Oblivion glyphs werent nerfed at the time of those videos posted here. And oblivion glyphs also had a much bigger impact against normal builds. So no, its not a solution. Mechanics, sets, abilities removing skill from the game are not the solution to anything. They make things worse. They are the reason PVP is in this state.

2-3k Oblivion Damage is nowhere near 20k DMG from proc sets.

I said at the time Torug + Oblivion was Too much, I also said anything above 20% nerf was Too much.

Why do I even say this?

Because I don't see any change to block that's gonna make permablocking less viable, - cost increase did nothing, the only change that would work involves a complete change to the mechanics (or Passives) which won't happen any time soon.

So, outside of bleed, what counter to permablocker is there?

Change in block cost calculation order would be a start

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/355523/permablocking-and-block-cost-calculations-analysis/p1

Waffennacht

@Chilly-McFreeze I do agree with you, but do you see a change like that happening any time soon?

Chilly-McFreeze

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Chilly-McFreeze I do agree with you, but do you see a change like that happening any time soon?

No chance we see this anytime soon. If at all, in one of the next allround balance updates because of the influence it would have on PvE tanking.

Minno

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Chilly-McFreeze I do agree with you, but do you see a change like that happening any time soon?

No chance we see this anytime soon. If at all, in one of the next allround balance updates because of the influence it would have on PvE tanking.

I think they are banking on the increased unblocked cc sources to help reduce the ttk on tanks in PvP. Makes sense given that block is a huge amount of mitigation and that pve would get ripped on if this was to be done "properly".

Chilly-McFreeze

Minno wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Chilly-McFreeze I do agree with you, but do you see a change like that happening any time soon?

No chance we see this anytime soon. If at all, in one of the next allround balance updates because of the influence it would have on PvE tanking.

I think they are banking on the increased unblocked cc sources to help reduce the ttk on tanks in PvP. Makes sense given that block is a huge amount of mitigation and that pve would get ripped on if this was to be done "properly".

I see but the "collateral damage" of those unblockable, undodgeable hard CCs everywhere now is that medium armor is even more on the bad side as it is now. They must implement something that works specifically against permablocking while leaving ordinary blocking and other means of defense untouched. Kinda like shieldbreaker but not in that no-skill way and definitely not as a set. As example, rune cage is unblockable now anyway, no reason to make it undodgeable too.

Ender1310

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It's just boring and annoying to fight for stalemates. Everything is way too tanky with heavy armor, vampire (undead is the most busted passive in the game, even tho the vampire fans will rage on me now), minor maim on everyone, capped resis (Bloodspawn is too lol since sharpened nerf), block builds which can blockcast straight for 20 minutes, shieldspam, cloakspam, restoult, snb ult, Warden tree ult... the list is endless.

Duels aren't fun anymore, Smallscale is no fun anymore, PvP is no fun anymore... it just feels like a pointless waste of time and PvP is completely dieing at the moment, many top players are just (semi-) quitting from the game. You can't punish opponents for mistakes because the meta bruiser with sword and board (ridiculous how a TANK skill line has access to the strongest debuff = major defile in the game with a SPAMMABLE stunn by the way) can just facetank almost everything. I've never seen a rpg game with such a ridiculous Time To Kill (unexperiend players who get bursted in 3 seconds excluded) and it is just sad what this game did turn into. I remember a troll post years ago from someone who suggested to remove death from PvP... we aren't far away from that now.

Not a single person who I used to play PvP with does enjoy the game in it's current state, PvP highly needs some love and improvements and not another gear gate behind PvE again...

Ender1310

Are the people that are Tammy able to kill you? Do they give up anything like damage? Do these changes force groups to specialize i.e. Have tanks and dps? I would think some of the things above would be good things. Can you cc things and kill them? A lot of times players want their insta gratification builds and cry nerf to every other counter play. I just want to make sure op is t one of those.