Time To Kill is way too high nowadays

BohnT

Joy_Division wrote: »

Cyrodiil is becoming a zergfest? It has long since been one.

On PC EU you always had at least 1-2 zergs on every faction but also 3-4 small scale groups some solo players and medium sized guild groups.
Over the last few months it changed to be more like. 1 huge blob zerg for every faction, 1 small scale group max for every faction and there are 1-2 true solo players. The rest is running around in the huge blob zerg that will zerg everything and everyone with no mercy.

Rohaus

Everyone is indeed tanky these days... by comparison, I recently was watching some WoW PvP streaming... same thing in that game as well... folks just live for long periods of time and only when you have numbers focusing 1 target does that person actually die.

It's one of the main reasons why I play No CP... people actually die there due to running out of resources much much quicker. Also, people are less tanky in no cp.

If you want to actually kill people quickly, I suggest you try out a no CP campaign.

However, Sotha NA is normally full of a massive AD zerg that will literally zerg down a group of 4 with 40+ people so just FYI... don't forget your siege AD... siege those 4 guys with your 40 man zerg! LOL

Feanor

Rohaus wrote: »

Everyone is indeed tanky these days... by comparison, I recently was watching some WoW PvP streaming... same thing in that game as well... folks just live for long periods of time and only when you have numbers focusing 1 target does that person actually die.

It's one of the main reasons why I play No CP... people actually die there due to running out of resources much much quicker. Also, people are less tanky in no cp.

If you want to actually kill people quickly, I suggest you try out a no CP campaign.

However, Sotha NA is normally full of a massive AD zerg that will literally zerg down a group of 4 with 40+ people so just FYI... don't forget your siege AD... siege those 4 guys with your 40 man zerg! LOL

It's the same on Sotha Sil EU, only those AD are EP there.

ezeepeezee

BohnT wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Cyrodiil is becoming a zergfest? It has long since been one.

On PC EU you always had at least 1-2 zergs on every faction but also 3-4 small scale groups some solo players and medium sized guild groups.
Over the last few months it changed to be more like. 1 huge blob zerg for every faction, 1 small scale group max for every faction and there are 1-2 true solo players. The rest is running around in the huge blob zerg that will zerg everything and everyone with no mercy.

This is what I see on PC NA as well. Gigantic zergs with 1, 2 max small groups roaming around. But even those small groups usually merge with the large groups because if everybody is in the same place, what is the small group fighting?

Cyrodiil needs meaningful objectives outside of the keeps. If Cyrodiil is designed in blocks of instanced servers that connect the landmass, it's no wonder we have so much lag. Some of the instances have like +/- 3 players in them, while others have 150+. Players have to be incentivized to spread out for so many reasons.

I bet if they spread out more, we'll see a slow dissolution of this tank meta. There is no need to be excessively tanky when your typical fight is against a manageable number of enemies. Being actually capable of scoring kills will be much more valuable if you have to clear an area of enemies for the sake of the objective. And sure, you'll still have players that endlessly tank just because it's what they like to do - but at least they could be addressed realistically. When you regularly find yourself being ranged down by 10+ players if you don't stick like glue to LoS opportunities, it's no surprise when people get fed up and start going full tanktard.

Maybe we need placeable defenses, like the current siege weaponry. Small, disposable barricades, magicka wards, things like that. Being able to dig in is a very important battlefield tactic. The only "dig-in" that exists right now is sheer tankiness.

Derra

Koolio wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

A nerf tank post because a nb cant oneshoot other player anymore.

Problem being - with how strong healing in this game is:
If you can´t oneshot a player on a non dot build you will never kill them if they´re not outclassed.

Oneshot meaning a burst combo of usually 3 to 5 abilities.

I believe the definition of the highlighted word contradicts the following words.

There is no classic onehit.

The last time that happened was in 1.6 snipes for 25k+ afaik.

All "oneshots" involve comboing multiple abilities to hit in a narrow timeframe.

Waffennacht

Derra wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

A nerf tank post because a nb cant oneshoot other player anymore.

Problem being - with how strong healing in this game is:
If you can´t oneshot a player on a non dot build you will never kill them if they´re not outclassed.

Oneshot meaning a burst combo of usually 3 to 5 abilities.

I believe the definition of the highlighted word contradicts the following words.

There is no classic onehit.

The last time that happened was in 1.6 snipes for 25k+ afaik.

All "oneshots" involve comboing multiple abilities to hit in a narrow timeframe.

Disagree, @Lexxypwns can literally 1 shot me with Assassin's Will - well until I changed my build

s7732425ub17_ESO

It's true. The time to kill is very high for experienced players, and extremely low for new players. This is a big reason why new players try PVP once and never return to it again because they simply cannot compete.

DisgracefulMind

Even with relatively easy access to defile, it's incredibly rough to take out someone in a tank-dps build. I find myself just running off from those builds 95% of the time now - there's no point to keep fighting someone who's just going to spam hold block, put massive pressure on you AND then outheal any major damage you put out. Sure, these players are eventually able to be killed, but it's not worth the time when I could run off and find better fights in the 10-15 minutes it takes to fight someone running a build like that. So, yeah, I agree with the OP completely.

I don't want to be able to burst a good player down immediately all the time, but ffs there's too much tankiness going on in ESO right now for sure. It almost reminds me of pre-Homestead (I think it was), where Malubeth was broken and everyone wore it with heavy armor. That was such miserable PvP and this is getting close to that again.

Bislobo

Cyrodiil is a joke right now

Waffennacht

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Even with relatively easy access to defile, it's incredibly rough to take out someone in a tank-dps build. I find myself just running off from those builds 95% of the time now - there's no point to keep fighting someone who's just going to spam hold block, put massive pressure on you AND then outheal any major damage you put out. Sure, these players are eventually able to be killed, but it's not worth the time when I could run off and find better fights in the 10-15 minutes it takes to fight someone running a build like that. So, yeah, I agree with the OP completely.

I don't want to be able to burst a good player down immediately all the time, but ffs there's too much tankiness going on in ESO right now for sure. It almost reminds me of pre-Homestead (I think it was), where Malubeth was broken and everyone wore it with heavy armor. That was such miserable PvP and this is getting close to that again.

Not nearly as bad as that proc set BS

grannas211

Storymaster wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Time To Kill is way too high nowadays

But, @Ragnaroek93 , how can a book be "too high"? Too hard perhaps? But then again, we're talking about John Grisham here.

Or were you referring to the then celebrated now widely panned 1996 film adaptation, holding a cryptic 67% on Rotten Tomatoes?

Lol. Strong username to post content ratio.

Ragnaroek93

Storymaster wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Time To Kill is way too high nowadays

But, @Ragnaroek93 , how can a book be "too high"? Too hard perhaps? But then again, we're talking about John Grisham here.

Or were you referring to the then celebrated now widely panned 1996 film adaptation, holding a cryptic 67% on Rotten Tomatoes?

Gave you an awesome for that

Murador178

Waffennacht wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Even with relatively easy access to defile, it's incredibly rough to take out someone in a tank-dps build. I find myself just running off from those builds 95% of the time now - there's no point to keep fighting someone who's just going to spam hold block, put massive pressure on you AND then outheal any major damage you put out. Sure, these players are eventually able to be killed, but it's not worth the time when I could run off and find better fights in the 10-15 minutes it takes to fight someone running a build like that. So, yeah, I agree with the OP completely.

I don't want to be able to burst a good player down immediately all the time, but ffs there's too much tankiness going on in ESO right now for sure. It almost reminds me of pre-Homestead (I think it was), where Malubeth was broken and everyone wore it with heavy armor. That was such miserable PvP and this is getting close to that again.

Not nearly as bad as that proc set BS

yeah proc sets where are stupid- but if i got the joice duel the guy in 3 proc sets or the heavy armor player- its quite easy. I will kill the proc set dude fast- he traded alot of healing defense for the procsets. The defensive ult spam needs to be nerfed- with ult gen builds and e.g. the warden tree spell u can get it too almost perma uptime or

idk wrote: »

Duels are far from the focus of the game.

Besides, assuming OP is not a tank talking about dueling a tank it seems to be working fine. Tanks should be able to take gobs of damage and should have issues doing good damage to another player.

That could be really long fights. Find someone other than a tank to duel.

I think u should show up at a duel spot someday- there are literally 80% tanky players- since u dont need to trade alot of dmg for the extra defense.
When u go e.g. legion/bloodspawn/ravager suprise attack buffed will be around 12-13k with good stustain and 3ple axe bleeds- so most fotm duel stambuilds went now to reverb+trap+snb ult spam.
Mag dks can anyways perma block cancel -doesnt matter if light or heavy armor- magplars(block cancel BoL)/mag nightblades(heavy armor+resto ult) and sorcs with mine attro/shadowrend necropotence are tanky aswell.
There is a build for that kind of gameplay on EVERY class.
I'm not saying that u cant kill these builds, but u should prepare on fighting 10min or even 20min+. And no medium armor with focus on dodgerolling isnt viable anymore...

Drakkdjinn

Try noCP; profit.

Lexxypwns

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

A nerf tank post because a nb cant oneshoot other player anymore.

Problem being - with how strong healing in this game is:
If you can´t oneshot a player on a non dot build you will never kill them if they´re not outclassed.

Oneshot meaning a burst combo of usually 3 to 5 abilities.

I believe the definition of the highlighted word contradicts the following words.

There is no classic onehit.

The last time that happened was in 1.6 snipes for 25k+ afaik.

All "oneshots" involve comboing multiple abilities to hit in a narrow timeframe.

Disagree, @Lexxypwns can literally 1 shot me with Assassin's Will - well until I changed my build

This is true, I 1 shot people with empowered assassin's will crits and I'm not even in a crazy high damage spec. I saw a screenshot the other day of a 32k assassins will crit on a player from one of my mageblade buddies, he's running 5 alch 5 maiden though

Joy_Division

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Try noCP; profit.

The problem the OP describes is a fundamental part of ESO combat mechanics, gear, ability choices, etc., that go beyond CP. I've played in more than enough Battlegrounds to see the same sort of defensive tank builds that resist the attempts of multiple players to kill them, and in no CP I have less hitting power, less resources, and less of my build devoted to the damage needed to bring them down. My ult generates just as fast and stuff like trees, resto ult, and sword and shield are relatively stronger in no CP since players aren't putting out as much damage.

technohic

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

A nerf tank post because a nb cant oneshoot other player anymore.

Problem being - with how strong healing in this game is:
If you can´t oneshot a player on a non dot build you will never kill them if they´re not outclassed.

Oneshot meaning a burst combo of usually 3 to 5 abilities.

I believe the definition of the highlighted word contradicts the following words.

There is no classic onehit.

The last time that happened was in 1.6 snipes for 25k+ afaik.

All "oneshots" involve comboing multiple abilities to hit in a narrow timeframe.

Disagree, @Lexxypwns can literally 1 shot me with Assassin's Will - well until I changed my build

This is true, I 1 shot people with empowered assassin's will crits and I'm not even in a crazy high damage spec. I saw a screenshot the other day of a 32k assassins will crit on a player from one of my mageblade buddies, he's running 5 alch 5 maiden though

Not really one shot. Still takes you 5 light attacks to get there.

ChandraNalaar

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

ZOS needs to destroy the damage-dealing potential of Sword n' Board (maybe make SnB reduce Wep dmg by 10% instead of increase by 5%), and reduce (not remove) the damage-dealing potential of Heavy Armor. Remove wep/spell dmg from wrath and add something decent for survival.

Sets like Seventh Legion and Ravager need to be looked at as well. Fury is fine since you have to get hit a bunch, there is counterplay. But the other 2 sets just have a basic % proc chance to turn you into a BAMF.

Point for doing these things is with these changes we will see ppl switch to light/med over heavy so they can continue to do damage. We can still have tanks in the game and ppl need to learn to deal with that. What we don't need is ppl who can block almost endlessly and still put out enough burst to kill.

SnB should never have been given offensive passives/abilities, just like heavy armor should never have had the bracing passive taken away and wrath put in its place. If you go heavy armor/SnB, you should be signing up for a permablock build with no damage, not a build that can swap between offensive and defensive at the drop of a hat.

kaithuzar

My problem is being able to dps someone down before their next s&b, resto, trees, ie.. cheap defensive ult.
They are just too cheap especially when you add decisive weapon trait or bloodspawn into the mix.

Between CP reduce cost of blocking, sturdy armor trait & passives, permanent blocking is a big issue in between defensive ults.

Waffennacht

I do agree, the change to block cost only seemed to hurt medium armor and very little to do with permablock.

Permablocking is a hard fix though

Subversus

I agree with everything. Heavy is way too op in pvp atm. For magblade, you're basically gimping yourself if you don't run heavy.

The things that desperately need HUGE nerfs are undeath and heavy armor heavy attack resource return. Bloodspawn is also too strong without sharpened the way it was.

If heavy does indeed get nerfed, a nerf to major defile should also be implemented. It's currently common courtesy to not run reverb in duels unless you're a major tw4t, just because fights are basically decided by who has the most major defile uptime. The defiler cp passive is just plain OP.

Derra

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

A nerf tank post because a nb cant oneshoot other player anymore.

Problem being - with how strong healing in this game is:
If you can´t oneshot a player on a non dot build you will never kill them if they´re not outclassed.

Oneshot meaning a burst combo of usually 3 to 5 abilities.

I believe the definition of the highlighted word contradicts the following words.

There is no classic onehit.

The last time that happened was in 1.6 snipes for 25k+ afaik.

All "oneshots" involve comboing multiple abilities to hit in a narrow timeframe.

Disagree, @Lexxypwns can literally 1 shot me with Assassin's Will - well until I changed my build

This is true, I 1 shot people with empowered assassin's will crits and I'm not even in a crazy high damage spec. I saw a screenshot the other day of a 32k assassins will crit on a player from one of my mageblade buddies, he's running 5 alch 5 maiden though

I´ll be honest - the highest hit i´ve had personally with 5 alch 5 maiden was ~15k.

What kind of people are you fighting. Wtf?

DeHei

Some guys here are right. We had the high burstdamage from light armor weared magicka and medium armor weared stamina players. Nobody wanted to be bursted in few seconds, so the solution was heavy armor.
(Staminabuilds benefit very good and as more as magickabuilds from some sets. They can get very high weapondamage and resistances like hell)
In big groups or with a smallscale group and solo you can play just a common build with heavy armor or you go more defensive with a permablockbuild. You are very defensive with this and you are able to deal enough damage too. Against this all this direct damage builds have a problem now, because of much damage mitigation or reflective skills. I see this permablockers more and more at these days in cyrodiil.

Now again we need to find a counter for this evolution. You can also stack defensive now and somewhen we will only have endless and very boring fights... OR you go my way and go for dots and aoe effect builds with much damage and selfheal. I dont lose much 1vs1 situations against a bruiserbuild or a permablocker since 6 months with that. I can handle 1vsX sometimes and also crush some of these permablockbuilds.
Some guys really need to switch too and when we are enough there will be enough heavy armor guys, who return to a damagebuild with light or medium armor. Maybe we can balance it in this way! But before staminaplayer will return to medium armor, this armortype need to get a good buff!

Drakkdjinn

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Try noCP; profit.

The problem the OP describes is a fundamental part of ESO combat mechanics, gear, ability choices, etc., that go beyond CP. I've played in more than enough Battlegrounds to see the same sort of defensive tank builds that resist the attempts of multiple players to kill them, and in no CP I have less hitting power, less resources, and less of my build devoted to the damage needed to bring them down. My ult generates just as fast and stuff like trees, resto ult, and sword and shield are relatively stronger in no CP since players aren't putting out as much damage.

Just No. Time to kill is significantly lower in noCP-- cheese builds still exist there, but they don't have access to Cheese Points to augment the cheese even further; CP currently favors higher mitigation than added dmg.

Lexxypwns

technohic wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

A nerf tank post because a nb cant oneshoot other player anymore.

Problem being - with how strong healing in this game is:
If you can´t oneshot a player on a non dot build you will never kill them if they´re not outclassed.

Oneshot meaning a burst combo of usually 3 to 5 abilities.

I believe the definition of the highlighted word contradicts the following words.

There is no classic onehit.

The last time that happened was in 1.6 snipes for 25k+ afaik.

All "oneshots" involve comboing multiple abilities to hit in a narrow timeframe.

Disagree, @Lexxypwns can literally 1 shot me with Assassin's Will - well until I changed my build

This is true, I 1 shot people with empowered assassin's will crits and I'm not even in a crazy high damage spec. I saw a screenshot the other day of a 32k assassins will crit on a player from one of my mageblade buddies, he's running 5 alch 5 maiden though

Not really one shot. Still takes you 5 light attacks to get there.

and if I kill someone and proc bow then stealth, magelight, and bust someone new in 1 hit, that's not a 1 shot? Even though its only 1 source of damage? Bad logic is bad.

Derra wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

A nerf tank post because a nb cant oneshoot other player anymore.

Problem being - with how strong healing in this game is:
If you can´t oneshot a player on a non dot build you will never kill them if they´re not outclassed.

Oneshot meaning a burst combo of usually 3 to 5 abilities.

I believe the definition of the highlighted word contradicts the following words.

There is no classic onehit.

The last time that happened was in 1.6 snipes for 25k+ afaik.

All "oneshots" involve comboing multiple abilities to hit in a narrow timeframe.

Disagree, @Lexxypwns can literally 1 shot me with Assassin's Will - well until I changed my build

This is true, I 1 shot people with empowered assassin's will crits and I'm not even in a crazy high damage spec. I saw a screenshot the other day of a 32k assassins will crit on a player from one of my mageblade buddies, he's running 5 alch 5 maiden though

I´ll be honest - the highest hit i´ve had personally with 5 alch 5 maiden was ~15k.

What kind of people are you fighting. Wtf?

Well, @Waffennacht was in 5 light and sturdy on a permablock build and I caught him during a bar swap I believe. That 32k crit had to be perfect circumstances, a fully penetrated target, empowered crit from stealth with shadow mundus I'd assume and maybe no point into thaum so you can stack ironclad/elfborn/EE for maximum burst. I didn't ask him how he managed it I just saw the screen shot in my feed and was pretty impressed.

As for me personally, I'm only at ~36k mag 3k spell damage 1.9 CHD and about 16k pen. There's this "new" trend of people thinking they don't need as much impen on Xbox(I see this gathering steam in comments from players on other platforms as well) because people are running with less crit and CHD than earlier patches. In reality, I think some specific people like mag sorcs or perma blockers are running very little impen lately. If I'm hitting a light armor target they're basically taking tooltip damage, since my offensive CPs will usually be greater than the defensive ones that apply to my damage.

I believe you guys are having a meta swing in the other direction where sets like impreg and trans are being used more often, no? Most good players on my server incorporate defensive sets into their builds these days, but outside of the top tier or so of players I think the meta is swinging the other way.

Its my personal belief that this is the next evolution of the tank meta, as good players build more brawly builds the lesser players are forced into one or two categories: either you build more tanky, or you build for more damage. One of the easiest ways to Incorporate more damage into your build is by using offensive traits on gear instead of impen. Add to this that you hear good players talking about running 5+ sturdy(usually in conjunction with impreg, always on "permablock" builds)and you start to get the average players to devalue impen since "people aren't stacking crit and crit damage anymore" and "streamer X runs only 3 impen"

Joy_Division

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Try noCP; profit.

The problem the OP describes is a fundamental part of ESO combat mechanics, gear, ability choices, etc., that go beyond CP. I've played in more than enough Battlegrounds to see the same sort of defensive tank builds that resist the attempts of multiple players to kill them, and in no CP I have less hitting power, less resources, and less of my build devoted to the damage needed to bring them down. My ult generates just as fast and stuff like trees, resto ult, and sword and shield are relatively stronger in no CP since players aren't putting out as much damage.

Just No. Time to kill is significantly lower in noCP-- cheese builds still exist there, but they don't have access to Cheese Points to augment the cheese even further; CP currently favors higher mitigation than added dmg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4TYI8gC48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mmz-umbuFk

A temp or DK can just put on Reactive, Pirate skeleton and Mist form in-between sword and board ults in no CP.

Waffennacht

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Try noCP; profit.

The problem the OP describes is a fundamental part of ESO combat mechanics, gear, ability choices, etc., that go beyond CP. I've played in more than enough Battlegrounds to see the same sort of defensive tank builds that resist the attempts of multiple players to kill them, and in no CP I have less hitting power, less resources, and less of my build devoted to the damage needed to bring them down. My ult generates just as fast and stuff like trees, resto ult, and sword and shield are relatively stronger in no CP since players aren't putting out as much damage.

Just No. Time to kill is significantly lower in noCP-- cheese builds still exist there, but they don't have access to Cheese Points to augment the cheese even further; CP currently favors higher mitigation than added dmg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4TYI8gC48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mmz-umbuFk

A temp or DK can just put on Reactive, Pirate skeleton and Mist form in-between sword and board ults in no CP.

Where Oblivion Damage comes in.

I'm sad they didn't listen and nerfed Oblivion Glyph by too much...

DisgracefulMind

Waffennacht wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Even with relatively easy access to defile, it's incredibly rough to take out someone in a tank-dps build. I find myself just running off from those builds 95% of the time now - there's no point to keep fighting someone who's just going to spam hold block, put massive pressure on you AND then outheal any major damage you put out. Sure, these players are eventually able to be killed, but it's not worth the time when I could run off and find better fights in the 10-15 minutes it takes to fight someone running a build like that. So, yeah, I agree with the OP completely.

I don't want to be able to burst a good player down immediately all the time, but ffs there's too much tankiness going on in ESO right now for sure. It almost reminds me of pre-Homestead (I think it was), where Malubeth was broken and everyone wore it with heavy armor. That was such miserable PvP and this is getting close to that again.

Not nearly as bad as that proc set BS

I agree, but the really bad procs happened around that same time. It was a miserable couple of patches, for sure.

jaysins

Tanking is very strong. I always thought a good point to aim for balance is that if you built for pure DPS, talking divines and all, and you had another build only focused on tanking that it should be pretty close who would in a fight. The max damage person might be ableto kill the max tank if played right but ultimately it should be a tough fight for both against one another. That's definitely not the case as we have builds that can survive several DPs builds just wailing in them which means tank builds scale higher in protection than you can build into damage. Also, tank builds can still provide great group utility so while you can ignore them they can be a huge pain to have spamming debuffs or talons, etc.

pieratsos

Waffennacht wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Try noCP; profit.

The problem the OP describes is a fundamental part of ESO combat mechanics, gear, ability choices, etc., that go beyond CP. I've played in more than enough Battlegrounds to see the same sort of defensive tank builds that resist the attempts of multiple players to kill them, and in no CP I have less hitting power, less resources, and less of my build devoted to the damage needed to bring them down. My ult generates just as fast and stuff like trees, resto ult, and sword and shield are relatively stronger in no CP since players aren't putting out as much damage.

Just No. Time to kill is significantly lower in noCP-- cheese builds still exist there, but they don't have access to Cheese Points to augment the cheese even further; CP currently favors higher mitigation than added dmg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4TYI8gC48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mmz-umbuFk

A temp or DK can just put on Reactive, Pirate skeleton and Mist form in-between sword and board ults in no CP.

Where Oblivion Damage comes in.

I'm sad they didn't listen and nerfed Oblivion Glyph by too much...

So the solution to every problem we have is a mechanic removing skill from the game.