[VID] Why the Tanking Meta in PVP has become detrimental to PVP health .

Minno

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

2. Death is meaningless as players can resurrect an unlimited amount of times.

If death is meaningless why would you try to create a build about not dying?

Video gamer anxieties.

Also they are masochists; they thrive on watching people suffer lol.

Kartalin

Minno wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

2. Death is meaningless as players can resurrect an unlimited amount of times.

If death is meaningless why would you try to create a build about not dying?

Video gamer anxieties.

Also they are masochists; they thrive on watching people suffer lol.

Pretty sure that's sadists that like watching others suffer. The masochists are the ones that keep going out there to fight them, lol.

Anazasi

Everyone wants to play and everyone wants to win a fight. The sad part is it never works out that way for everyone. There is always a player who will have a better build or die faster than someone else. Is it a pain? are there too many "tanks"? Who really knows and honestly why does it matter? If you and your small group can't identify and kill a single player well could the statement than be it's more your issue than the tanks? Every build has a weakness identify it, exploit it and move on. If that doesn't work well its a tank do you really need to waste 20 mins trying to kill 1 player?

Is it out of hand? probably. Is it ruining PVP, Hardly, it's a itch nothing more. Build your ulti and walk away.

Yes I have zerged down 1 tank with 20 players. Do i feel sorry for them or regret zerging them down? No. I often thought, what was that idiot thinking; he is not a hero.

umagon

Derra wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

2. Death is meaningless as players can resurrect an unlimited amount of times.

If death is meaningless why would you try to create a build about not dying?

You are trying to take what I am talking about out of context. Pvp is objective based and most of the time that is flipping flags. Which have little to do with killing players individually it has more to do with the ability to stand one spot while under heavy fire longer than the opposing group can and flipping the flags. Death is meaningless in that regard because it’s not about killing players it’s about have the most players on the flags in a short time interval. A tank build allows a player to stand in that spot longer then someone who doesn’t have a similar build thus completing the objective.

There are players who play the map and there are players who just want solo 1v1. Tank builds most of the time are built around playing the map and not 1v1 fights. What you have in this thread is people complaining about not being able to 1v1 a tank to death. When 98% of the time they can just walk away and go do something else.

Rohamad_Ali

CyrusArya wrote: »

Actually watched the video....lmao. I can count on one hand the players that are actually 'unkillable' on the PC NA server. With the way you play however, I'm sure you find a lot of builds to be unkillable. And that is 100% a personal l2p issue. Thanks for submitting video evidence as to why your opinions should be dismissed.


Close this thread.

Hahahahaha . That's funny . You are a funny guy . The video was made to show how slow and boring a tank meta is , not me trying to kill anyone or expecting to do so but me tanking . If the video was boring then my message was clear . The entire point here about "just avoid tanks" is anti engagement and anti PVP . Many people agree their should be limits on how many people can be tanked . Limitless perma blockers are not good . There is no reason however to get so triggered over a class as to say we need to dismiss each other's opinions as I appricate yours even if you do not like mine . I have learned to play . This is not l2p situation . In fact I will challenge you to show me you've learned to play by showing me that you can kill either Serra Drakonis or SRIBES . Show me you can kill them or l2p .

Rohamad_Ali

Anazasi wrote: »

Everyone wants to play and everyone wants to win a fight. The sad part is it never works out that way for everyone. There is always a player who will have a better build or die faster than someone else. Is it a pain? are there too many "tanks"? Who really knows and honestly why does it matter? If you and your small group can't identify and kill a single player well could the statement than be it's more your issue than the tanks? Every build has a weakness identify it, exploit it and move on. If that doesn't work well its a tank do you really need to waste 20 mins trying to kill 1 player?

Is it out of hand? probably. Is it ruining PVP, Hardly, it's a itch nothing more. Build your ulti and walk away.

Yes I have zerged down 1 tank with 20 players. Do i feel sorry for them or regret zerging them down? No. I often thought, what was that idiot thinking; he is not a hero.

This is why permablockers are bad . They are Zerg creators . They encourage zergs out of necessity . Whether removing them from flags or off resources , they require large numbers to remove . People that run these builds know exactly what position they are putting the game .

Rohamad_Ali

Finally let's all remember what zergs create to bring all this into focus . L A G . Poooor performance . Low frame rates . So playing a class that creates zergs for counter play in fact creates the biggest problem in PVP .

caeliusstarbreaker

If I can use and survive on a stamplar build with 6.1k wpn dmg, people should be allowed to build unnecessarily tanky, cause they aren't gonna be doing any dmg.

Casul

I disagree. I do feel that tanks are strong but if you spec fully for defense then you should be unkillable.

For example.

I run 5 hist bark, 5 ebon, 1 (eventually 2) chudan in pvp. I run 8 sturdy with absorb magic. I can block for quite a while. Mixed with north wind and healing thicket (I'm a warden) I can heal through alot of pressure. While at the same time I can apply pressure with frozen gate (pull people who are archers behind the zergs or my favorite pull a destro bomber from my group who's capping a resource.) I also use gripping shards after a gate to hold the person down and force them to dodge roll. This applies pressure and drains resources allowing my team an easier kill.

I think the main issue is we have alot of "I'll sit here and block forever and now I'm helpful" tanks. They are just sponges and should be ignored. A good tank should be making your life hell.

I would say the best experience I've had being a tank in pvp was when me and a stam dk were guarded and sat there with about 30 people attacking us. It was heal after heal. Ultimate after ultimate. And you know what, regardless of whether we didn't kill them we gave our team enough time to rush the front door and cap the flag while they were occupied with us.

That, in my opinion, is why tanks are an important role in pvp.

Edit: should mention my CP is all in defense, self healing, and magicka sustain/block reduction. Literally 0 damage.

CyrusArya

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Hahahahaha . That's funny . You are a funny guy . The video was made to show how slow and boring a tank meta is , not me trying to kill anyone or expecting to do so but me tanking . If the video was boring then my message was clear . The entire point here about "just avoid tanks" is anti engagement and anti PVP . Many people agree their should be limits on how many people can be tanked . Limitless perma blockers are not good . There is no reason however to get so triggered over a class as to say we need to dismiss each other's opinions as I appricate yours even if you do not like mine . I have learned to play . This is not l2p situation . In fact I will challenge you to show me you've learned to play by showing me that you can kill either Serra Drakonis or SRIBES . Show me you can kill them or l2p .

You're missing my point. Never said I can kill any build in the game. What I'm saying is that the proliferation of 'unkillable' builds is not nearly as much as you imply, and that the ones that do exist are completely irrelevant as they cannot kill anything. They are only relevant because pugs go rabid trying to kill them.

You say every class can make an invincible tank and that is simply not true. There are no unkillable sorcs. There are no unkillable sap tanks. There are no unkillable templars. Maybe 1v1, but not in the way of super tanks. Not any more. Only one class can exhibit the tankiness you describe and that is a particular strain of dragon knight. If you find that there are many many unkillable players in cyrodiil, then yes, that's absolutely a personal issue on your end. To put it in even more simple terms, everyone is tanky if your damage is lacking.

Master_Kas

Anazasi wrote: »

Everyone wants to play and everyone wants to win a fight. The sad part is it never works out that way for everyone. There is always a player who will have a better build or die faster than someone else. Is it a pain? are there too many "tanks"? Who really knows and honestly why does it matter? If you and your small group can't identify and kill a single player well could the statement than be it's more your issue than the tanks? Every build has a weakness identify it, exploit it and move on. If that doesn't work well its a tank do you really need to waste 20 mins trying to kill 1 player?

Is it out of hand? probably. Is it ruining PVP, Hardly, it's a itch nothing more. Build your ulti and walk away.

Yes I have zerged down 1 tank with 20 players. Do i feel sorry for them or regret zerging them down? No. I often thought, what was that idiot thinking; he is not a hero.

The problem is when there is armies of these tanks.

geonsocal

BuildMan wrote: »

I disagree. I do feel that tanks are strong but if you spec fully for defense then you should be unkillable.

For example.

I run 5 hist bark, 5 ebon, 1 (eventually 2) chudan in pvp. I run 8 sturdy with absorb magic. I can block for quite a while. Mixed with north wind and healing thicket (I'm a warden) I can heal through alot of pressure. While at the same time I can apply pressure with frozen gate (pull people who are archers behind the zergs or my favorite pull a destro bomber from my group who's capping a resource.) I also use gripping shards after a gate to hold the person down and force them to dodge roll. This applies pressure and drains resources allowing my team an easier kill.

I think the main issue is we have alot of "I'll sit here and block forever and now I'm helpful" tanks. They are just sponges and should be ignored. A good tank should be making your life hell.

I would say the best experience I've had being a tank in pvp was when me and a stam dk were guarded and sat there with about 30 people attacking us. It was heal after heal. Ultimate after ultimate. And you know what, regardless of whether we didn't kill them we gave our team enough time to rush the front door and cap the flag while they were occupied with us.

That, in my opinion, is why tanks are an important role in pvp.

Edit: should mention my CP is all in defense, self healing, and magicka sustain/block reduction. Literally 0 damage.

I wanna learn to tank from you

it's not really my style, but, it looks like it could be fun and different...eapecially the "irritating other players part" - which i normally suck at...

so, is the secret truly in the gear?, or, are slotted abilities and rotations more important...

i'm guessing being a nord, orc, imperial or argonian is useful...templar, warden or dragonknight would seem easiest...

I've never thought of setting up my cp for purely defenses purposes - but, it sounds like that truly puts the icing on the cake...

so just hist bark (for blocking), another health set (plague doctor, green pact, beekeeper), a good defensive/healing monster set (mighty churn, troll king), double SnB and that should do the trick?

usmcjdking

CyrusArya wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

The quality of the gameplay in the video has absolutely no bearing on his statements.

How good of a player he is is entirely inconsequential because the same issue can be found at every single skill level in ESO PVP.

No it absolutely has bearing. He claims every class can make indestructible builds, and then throws shield stacking sorcs in with sword and board tanks, all while struggling to kill people in this video that I know to be very killable 1v1 let alone while being pug zerged down.

The ability to deal damage and apply pressure is completely consequential to the perception of how killable or tanky builds are, and absolutely will inform someone's impression of balance. I am no fan of the tank builds or play styles, but fact of the matter is that there are only 3 players that fit the bill this guy is describing of being "invincible". But if you took this post at face value, you'd think there are literally invincible all over the place as the video seems to demonstrate.

Such hyperbole and exaggeration does not make for meaningful conversations on balance.

It really doesn't matter. This is not a competetive game and the developers do not/have not balanced things around the limited competetive scene especially in PVP. There is no money in competetive PVP and any resources spent towards it are literally sunk costs. Devs have and will continue to aim balance towards the masses and HA/S&B blocking is the crux of a lot of issues with tank specs across every skill level.

It is completely unimportant that at the top end of PVP in ESO that these builds must go further into the defensive extreme to pull off builds of the magnitude op is experiencing. Key phrase there is 'op's experience' - being an average player means he runs into significantly more percieved unkillable builds, some which from his perspective have incredible damage as well. There are more people at his skill level observing this than there are at your level experiencing this. This is a problem. He is not the first, and he is not the last that will walk away from PVP because of what he percieves as stupid in PVP.

Rohamad_Ali

CyrusArya wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Hahahahaha . That's funny . You are a funny guy . The video was made to show how slow and boring a tank meta is , not me trying to kill anyone or expecting to do so but me tanking . If the video was boring then my message was clear . The entire point here about "just avoid tanks" is anti engagement and anti PVP . Many people agree their should be limits on how many people can be tanked . Limitless perma blockers are not good . There is no reason however to get so triggered over a class as to say we need to dismiss each other's opinions as I appricate yours even if you do not like mine . I have learned to play . This is not l2p situation . In fact I will challenge you to show me you've learned to play by showing me that you can kill either Serra Drakonis or SRIBES . Show me you can kill them or l2p .

You're missing my point. Never said I can kill any build in the game. What I'm saying is that the proliferation of 'unkillable' builds is not nearly as much as you imply, and that the ones that do exist are completely irrelevant as they cannot kill anything. They are only relevant because pugs go rabid trying to kill them.

You say every class can make an invincible tank and that is simply not true. There are no unkillable sorcs. There are no unkillable sap tanks. There are no unkillable templars. Maybe 1v1, but not in the way of super tanks. Not any more. Only one class can exhibit the tankiness you describe and that is a particular strain of dragon knight. If you find that there are many many unkillable players in cyrodiil, then yes, that's absolutely a personal issue on your end. To put it in even more simple terms, everyone is tanky if your damage is lacking.

No I believe you are missing the point as I've stated many times . Just because a build does no damage does not mean it causes no issue . Flags inside keeps and objectives are present . Ignoring is no option . So zergs are created as an answer . Are you pro zerging ? Because this whole statement dismisses the issue and the effect of these builds is sending zergs to deal with them . I don't know who thinks that is good PVP to bring the zergs . Very bad gameplay .

Also Serra has no trouble permablocking on Templar but it's a mute point as there are plenty of vids showing all classes achieving super tanking capabilities is knowledgable players are so inclined to do so . Warden , no problem too . NB , easy . But I'll avoid the showcase every class discussion because it should be known by now .

Rohamad_Ali

BuildMan wrote: »

I disagree. I do feel that tanks are strong but if you spec fully for defense then you should be unkillable.

For example.

I run 5 hist bark, 5 ebon, 1 (eventually 2) chudan in pvp. I run 8 sturdy with absorb magic. I can block for quite a while. Mixed with north wind and healing thicket (I'm a warden) I can heal through alot of pressure. While at the same time I can apply pressure with frozen gate (pull people who are archers behind the zergs or my favorite pull a destro bomber from my group who's capping a resource.) I also use gripping shards after a gate to hold the person down and force them to dodge roll. This applies pressure and drains resources allowing my team an easier kill.

I think the main issue is we have alot of "I'll sit here and block forever and now I'm helpful" tanks. They are just sponges and should be ignored. A good tank should be making your life hell.

I would say the best experience I've had being a tank in pvp was when me and a stam dk were guarded and sat there with about 30 people attacking us. It was heal after heal. Ultimate after ultimate. And you know what, regardless of whether we didn't kill them we gave our team enough time to rush the front door and cap the flag while they were occupied with us.

That, in my opinion, is why tanks are an important role in pvp.

Edit: should mention my CP is all in defense, self healing, and magicka sustain/block reduction. Literally 0 damage.

If you believe the game should allow unkillable builds then you are not a PVP player . PVP can only take place of their is a possibility of a winner and a loser . Eliminating the result on one side removes the PVP and the game become player vs target dummy .

Arkangeloski

Joy_Division wrote: »

Agree ... but I think things are more complicated than this.

Speaking for myself, I used to play the sort of build that those players who complain about tanks want out there in Cyrodiil. And it was not fun getting one-shot by NB gankers, destroyed by wrecking blow + executioner combos, and lit up by on demand burst sorcs. F$%& that. So that was the end of using drinks, playing with less than 28K health, and not having half of my bar devoted to defensive or buffs skills. And I have to say, PvPing has since been a lot more enjoyable. At least for me. Probably not the people who fight me with builds that aren't tanky.

My point is that nothing happens in a vacuum. Ever since 1.6, damage has been out of control. It's crazy. I don't even try to DPS and I'm a Nord Templar and even I can burst people down who have over half health. Not only is damage high, damage is easy: undodgable skills, unreflectable projectiles, uninterruptible soul-assaults, defile spamming, proc sets, etc. If you don't stack impen, shield spam, permablock, rolly-polly, you are going to melt. So that's what we do.

And ZoS has not made it easy to survive. Every set of patch notes, I have to read about some survival mechanic or defensive set getting nerfed. Streak dodge, block, Major Mending, Breath of life, shield duration, Malubeth, block again, Troll King, Cloak, etc. Meanwhile, damage keeps getting higher and higher with the power creep. What has ZoS done to reign in the crazy damage out there? Nerf some proc sets (meanwhile Skoria, Selenes, et al. are working just fine) and ... what exactly?

Action - reaction.

When soft caps went and ZoS opened the door to maximum stacking, the natural power creep that accompanies games has created a situation where you must do crazy damage and mitigate crazy damage or you have no shot at winning a fight against a decent player. So we run around in self-sustaining builds that perform all three roles of the holy trinity (damage, DPS, and heal) and those who too inexperienced to know better get rekt.

If you are asking ZoS to nerf survival skills, sets, and mechanics just so it's easy to kill players, that's not something I'm comfortable doing because those players out there with good builds are already tearing through my Wizard's' Riposte, my impen-study, my blocking, my cleansing, my breath of lifing, my vamp-Nord damage reduction as it is. A player who is CCed stands a fair chance of being killed outright if at 65% health, which I see as just as toxic.

Do I like fighting Hattori Hanzo, Escop on AD, or Serra Draconis? No. So I don't. Their builds don't bother me or ruin my PvP experience. What are players who want to be a "tank" supposed to do? If a tank can be killed by a single DPS - which is what some DPS are crying for ZoS to make it so - then the whole concept of a "tank" is bankrupt. Because even noobs can slot a destro ultimate and powerful sets, damage is so easy to come by tanks need powerful tools to just survive. As it is, most tank builds do just that, survive, which makes it really hard for them to do anything meaningful if they aren't attracting a dozen PuGs to beat on them. If you want to take away their tools to survive, they need to be compensated with other meaningful tools to actually do something before they get destroyed by all the damage flying around out there.

Sorry but if you die to wrecking blows... you have problems, it is the worst telegraph skill in pvp just sayin...

disintegr8

Not sure why you would complain about meta tank builds when everyone is using meta something in PVP. If ZOS get rid if this meta, then something else will come in to replace it.

Example: Every stamina death recap I see is the same, only by different people - reverse slice and dizzying swing. People have said that this is all stam characters have that is useful in PVP, so must be part of a meta rotation.

The only alternative to meta is for every race and class to be the same and/or have the ability to deal exactly the same damage, achieve the same resistance and survive the same hits as everyone else. PVP would be more boring and tedious than it already is.

Rohamad_Ali

Addressing the amount of healing and defenses in the game is important . So important . This is how you avoid all these class nerfs people keep seeing . Ever wonder why your class gets nerfed or loses an ability ? It's because the Devs spot a symptom and not the actual issue . We can either be honest and start pointing at some of the inconsistency plaegimg the game or we can sit back and watch classes get picked apart to death and all foam at the mouth at every new change made to the class we enjoy . I know a lot of you here are very smart . Use your wits here and see the bigger picture . This system will not sustain itself . It's not sustainable now . PVP participation is at its lowest .

Subversus

This is what you get when proctards are left without sets that carry them with damage. They wind up without any knowledge on how to actually play the game, survive and do damage, so they resort to going full tank so that they don't automatically get erased when they step foot in cyrodiil. I am certain that more than half of these unkillable tanks are absolutely nothing when put in a balanced build.

Publius_Scipio

Maybe some are going to get upset at what I am about to say here, but me being Scipio, OF COURSE I WILL STILL SAY IT!

I feel as though tanking in ESO isn't really that hard to do. With class passives, heavy armor, a bunch of 5 piece gear sets, traits, certain monster sets, CP certainly. Seems like its not that difficult to pull off overall. Tankiness, tanking, seems like a very "safe" way to play ESO right now. Definitely a lot easier than playing a medium armor stam NB i'd say.

Casul

geonsocal wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

I disagree. I do feel that tanks are strong but if you spec fully for defense then you should be unkillable.

For example.

I run 5 hist bark, 5 ebon, 1 (eventually 2) chudan in pvp. I run 8 sturdy with absorb magic. I can block for quite a while. Mixed with north wind and healing thicket (I'm a warden) I can heal through alot of pressure. While at the same time I can apply pressure with frozen gate (pull people who are archers behind the zergs or my favorite pull a destro bomber from my group who's capping a resource.) I also use gripping shards after a gate to hold the person down and force them to dodge roll. This applies pressure and drains resources allowing my team an easier kill.

I think the main issue is we have alot of "I'll sit here and block forever and now I'm helpful" tanks. They are just sponges and should be ignored. A good tank should be making your life hell.

I would say the best experience I've had being a tank in pvp was when me and a stam dk were guarded and sat there with about 30 people attacking us. It was heal after heal. Ultimate after ultimate. And you know what, regardless of whether we didn't kill them we gave our team enough time to rush the front door and cap the flag while they were occupied with us.

That, in my opinion, is why tanks are an important role in pvp.

Edit: should mention my CP is all in defense, self healing, and magicka sustain/block reduction. Literally 0 damage.

I wanna learn to tank from you

it's not really my style, but, it looks like it could be fun and different...eapecially the "irritating other players part" - which i normally suck at...

so, is the secret truly in the gear?, or, are slotted abilities and rotations more important...

i'm guessing being a nord, orc, imperial or argonian is useful...templar, warden or dragonknight would seem easiest...

I've never thought of setting up my cp for purely defenses purposes - but, it sounds like that truly puts the icing on the cake...

so just hist bark (for blocking), another health set (plague doctor, green pact, beekeeper), a good defensive/healing monster set (mighty churn, troll king), double SnB and that should do the trick?

Tanks can run a few ways imo.

You have tanks that run very selfish setups that just don't want to die. But don't offer anything.

You have utility tanks that run sets like ebon and powerful assault and then buff up allies and apply battlefield control (this is what I am, and imo is the best tank to have)

You have proc set tanks (even though they are rarer they still exist) who put out a bit of dps while being tanky, I personally see them as bad because they are selfish like the defense tanks, but at the same time the damage they do isn't enough to shift the battlefield.

There's probably a few others out there, like the anti healing tank running duroks and fasalla guile. But they are specific.

I am probably going to swap hist bark for reactive when I can get ahold of some sturdy body pieces. I could run impregnable but as of now the only thing that affects me is NB fear so having the 35% damage reduction sounds superior to the extra crit resistance. (I on average take maybe 500 to 800 damage from heavy damaging skill when I'm blocking, sometimes they are lower then 100 depending on if the dps is really low.)

As far as CP I went
20% in direct damage resist.
20% in DoT damage resist.
15% healing recieved.

15% magicka regen
25% block cost reduction

15% healing done.
25% magicka crit heal.

This allows me to stay extremely defensive, heal up easily, and have enough magicka regen (roughly 1800) to cast utility skills to apply pressure.

That was at 600 CP so I still have 60 to go. Not even sure where I'll put it. Probably hardy, tenacity, and stamina crit heals.

geonsocal

thank you very much for taking the time to break it down @BuildMan - I really appreciate it...

as a solo player it can be a little challenging to break out of the selfish "stay alive" mindset - but, I really like the idea of providing battlefield utility and especially control - very cool...

sort of ironical that I also picked up some really great tips on resource poison utilization from an anti-poison thread...

truth is - they are all available tools...unless you understand and utilize them - you are going to constantly be fighting better versions of yourself...

this has been very useful...

and, no worries about me - no matter what I do - I always seem to be very killable

Casul

@Rohamad_Ali

The game allows shield stacking, cloak spam, huge burst damage, huge healing.

All of which have counters.

There is 0 reason why tanks should not exist in pvp. Wanna know the counter to tanks? Ignore them. If you want to waste time with someone who can't kill a fly then that's on you.

geonsocal

I've had a bit of luck wearing crest of cyrodiil, fasalla's guile and equipping resource poisons with those pesky tree and rock huggers...

Rohamad_Ali

BuildMan wrote: »

@Rohamad_Ali

The game allows shield stacking, cloak spam, huge burst damage, huge healing.

All of which have counters.

There is 0 reason why tanks should not exist in pvp. Wanna know the counter to tanks? Ignore them. If you want to waste time with someone who can't kill a fly then that's on you.

@BuildMan

I don't know how many times I can say this until someone gets it . Battlefields , IC and Cyrodiil have objective flags . You can not ignore any player standing on a flag unless you want to lose the objective . You can't . So your theory is seriously flawed on a game mechanics level . Now we have entire groups running these builds together capturing objectives and soon in Battlefields where no cp prevented it before .

I want to encourage you to read the entire thread and follow the conversation here before bringing this ignore fallacy back .

icontrive

I see more and more of these tanks everyday. I know people complain about shield stacking sorcs a lot but at least there’s a chance you can kill a sorc 1v1 in under 10 minutes..

Casul

@Rohamad_Ali

As far as flags go, well you need to spec to counter a tank.

Counters to tanks.
-resource poisons.
-oblivion damage.
-bleed damage (not sure saw a thread about how it mitigates defenses)
-major and minor defile.
-dk chain (just drag them away)
-warden portal (above)

All you have to do is drain their resources. Worst case if a tank is on a flag and is taking the pressure without having a tree to run around he is gonna be pressure down faster then ever. If you keep defile up then the healing reduction will prevent the rubber band heals.

I still stick by my opinion that tanks are needed in pvp.

@icontrive

Did these tanks kill you? Because a shield stack sorc still have 40k magicka backing up his offense.

icontrive

@BuildMan No cause I don’t attack them anymore, proving op’s point. Tanks bring lack of player versus player interaction.

Jaybe_Mawfaka

With build like this you won't kill anyone anyway, tanks included. But I agree that the heavy armour tank meta is by far the worst and has to be adressed. Imho it all happened after the heavy armour buffs ( which still makes it the best option to use in pvp )
I was hoping to see some medium armour buffs on pts but hell nah we won't gonna see anything anytime soon..

Casul

@icontrive

Then that's a bad tank. A good tank wouldn't let you leave. But at least you have common sense not to sit there and waste 10 minutes.