[VID] Why the Tanking Meta in PVP has become detrimental to PVP health .

Rohamad_Ali

I wanted to address the Balance Devs and PVP Devs with my reasoning behind the current tank meta in PVP being bad for competition in PVP . So I've put together a video in describing these reasons to show and say at the same time my opinion on this .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8PzzLE8OSUI&persist_app=1&app=m

For those not wishing to watch I'll site my points below .

1. Indestructible tanks discourage smaller scale fights and encourage zerging to bring those players down . They are not Zerg fighters they are Zerg creators .
2. The old balance Devs would make changes to avoid unkillable builds and PVP was more active pre 1.6 . Current PVP Balance has not addressed this and PVP is not as active .
3. Gear and CP are at the core of unkillable tanks but more gear then cp . That is why changing the cp system did not address unkillable tanks .
4. Having any build that players just avoid is not encouraging PVP it is discouraging PVP to take place . Most MMOs and PVP games know this and reel unkillable tank builds back for the health of PVP in their games . They use to do it here but not in a long time .
5. Subjective statement but I do not believe this meta is skill based , only gear based .


Agree or disagree these are my thoughts .

@Wrobel @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert I am tagging you because your opinions on this would be appricated .

@ZOS_AntonioP @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_KatP Could one of you please delete this thread , I am done with the conversation and do not care about direction PVP takes anymore as I've removed myself from it . Thank you very much .

WaltherCarraway

The most boring meta is something encase someone with unblockable damage and spend 1 sec to cast a high damage cc with 35% chance to instantly cast second one has 10% more damage and cost 50% less magicka; while stacking up 20k shield per 5 seconds, able to bargain with darkness to restore 8059 Health and 4878 Stamina and teleport away when SHTF.

btw, i don't see a nb feared S. Draconis, more like a "relearn your class and group-up" issue.

Sunshall is a very good 2h stamdk, he's nowhere to permablocking meta lol.

Rainraven

I think it's good that mitigation and heals can counter burst. But I agree it's out of hand now. Not sure what the solution would be, but doing nothing is not it.

Re the vid: at least people know they're signing up for an endless fight if they go to the bridge.

Rohamad_Ali

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

The most boring meta is something encase someone with unblockable damage and spend 1 sec to cast a high damage cc with 35% chance to instantly cast second one has 10% more damage and cost 50% less magicka; while stacking up 20k shield per 5 seconds, able to bargain with darkness to restore 8059 Health and 4878 Stamina and teleport away when SHTF.

btw, i don't see a nb feared S. Draconis, more like a "relearn your class and group-up" issue.

I am not disagreeing you or making this a class specific problem . All classes can obtain such power levels in tanking only in different ways . This is regarding the tanking meta across all class spectrum . Because I am playing StamDK here and not spamming fear to cc permablockers on nightblade does not mean other problems do not exist elsewhere . PVP tanking in all classes has become a problem for many .

zyk

Though there are some high profile troll tanks that highlight the issue, it goes far beyond them. More practical block builds are too effective and seem to become more common every day.

The problem is that the fights are slow and tedious, especially between two players built that way.

I feel the HA and trait changes last year resulted in the issue and were intended to address the demand from (bad) PVE tanks for a return of permablocking.

This isn't an indictment of the players. I think the infamous troll tanks are all very good players. That's sort of the problem. The tool that you give to the PVE casual that allows them to survive without much effort is best exploited by highly competitive, skilled and creative players. One also expects the most competitive players to embrace the most effective tools, no matter how hideous the disease they are compared to is.

It would be nice if ZOS had a consistent, cohesive vision for PVP that they were unafraid to express. In one patch, ball groups get nerfed via changes to purge and rapid maneuvers, but then in the following patches they are made OP again via the destro ult and Earthgore. Likewise, in one patch ZOS nerfs permablocking, and then in a few patches later, it's back.

Rohamad_Ali

zyk wrote: »

Though there are some high profile troll tanks that highlight the issue, it goes far beyond them. More practical block builds are too effective and seen to become more common every day.

The problem is that the fights are slow and tedious, especially between two players built that way.

I feel the HA and trait changes last year resulted in the issue and were intended to address the demand from (bad) PVE tanks for a return of permablocking.

This isn't an indictment of the players. I think the infamous troll tanks are all very good players. That's sort of the problem. The tool that you give to the PVE casual that allows them to survive without much effort is best exploited by highly competitive, skilled and creative players. One also expects the most competitive players to embrace the most effective tools, no matter how hideous the disease they are compared to is.

It would be nice if ZOS had a consistent, cohesive vision for PVP that they were unafraid to express. In one patch, ball groups get nerfed via changes to purge and rapid maneuvers, but then in the following patches they are made OP again via the destro ult and Earthgore. Likewise, in one patch ZOS nerfs permablocking, and then in a few patches later, it's back.

Exactly so and also when tanking becomes Meta , then of course all logical players will either be complying with meta or playing at disadvantages . This sites my concern as a Tank Meta encourages slower PVP , less fluid battles and the rhythm of the games PVP being toned way down . A tanking meta is bad for any player that enjoys fast paced PVP .

Rickter

so like, i used to complain about these builds and i was always told to "git gud" or "l2p"

but its obviously broken af and needs to die a slow horrible death.

two patches ago.

montiferus

Agree. Too many useless tanks in PVP right now. It primarily consists of people who never wanted to learn how to play so they equate not being easily killed to skillful gameplay. I was solo sieging a keep the other day and a 72k blazing shield templar came in and proceeded to try and destroy all of my siege. Thats literally all he did for about 10 minutes. Once I got in he camped the flag. A couple of more DC showed up so we flipped it while he literally stood there holding block.

Teabag all of them i say. Shame is the only way to get rid of them as ZOS couldn't balance PVP to save their lives.

ssewallb14_ESO

The only actual tank there was Draconis. A s+b stam DK dot build isn't going to kill anyone built properly.

Rohamad_Ali

Rickter wrote: »

so like, i used to complain about these builds and i was always told to "git gud" or "l2p"

but its obviously broken af and needs to die a slow horrible death.

two patches ago.

I believe it truly does if we ever want to see a return to previous PVP enjoyment . Pre 1.6 had its issues but not like we are seeing currently and even more concerning , beyond . From my assessment of CWC patch incoming next , all this will be exasperated . Not good for those people in Battlegrounds , Cyrodiil or IC that enjoy not needing a full raid to bring down a single player or very small group .

Rohamad_Ali

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

The only actual tank there was Draconis. A s+b stam DK dot build isn't going to kill anyone built properly.

I understand what you are saying but what is a true tank and is not is interpretational at best and not the real issue I am attempting to shed some light upon . Besides , no one is being pointed at as the problem , the meta is the problem . As stated all good players are going to chase the meta to be effective . Problem being any meta that is Defence centric slows down PVP and drags fights out indefinitely , leading to discouraged players and a lower participation rate . Sometimes even full refusal to PVP some players . I believe that is unhealthy for PVP . No meta should ever discourage PVP engagement .

Joy_Division

Agree ... but I think things are more complicated than this.

Speaking for myself, I used to play the sort of build that those players who complain about tanks want out there in Cyrodiil. And it was not fun getting one-shot by NB gankers, destroyed by wrecking blow + executioner combos, and lit up by on demand burst sorcs. F$%& that. So that was the end of using drinks, playing with less than 28K health, and not having half of my bar devoted to defensive or buffs skills. And I have to say, PvPing has since been a lot more enjoyable. At least for me. Probably not the people who fight me with builds that aren't tanky.

My point is that nothing happens in a vacuum. Ever since 1.6, damage has been out of control. It's crazy. I don't even try to DPS and I'm a Nord Templar and even I can burst people down who have over half health. Not only is damage high, damage is easy: undodgable skills, unreflectable projectiles, uninterruptible soul-assaults, defile spamming, proc sets, etc. If you don't stack impen, shield spam, permablock, rolly-polly, you are going to melt. So that's what we do.

And ZoS has not made it easy to survive. Every set of patch notes, I have to read about some survival mechanic or defensive set getting nerfed. Streak dodge, block, Major Mending, Breath of life, shield duration, Malubeth, block again, Troll King, Cloak, etc. Meanwhile, damage keeps getting higher and higher with the power creep. What has ZoS done to reign in the crazy damage out there? Nerf some proc sets (meanwhile Skoria, Selenes, et al. are working just fine) and ... what exactly?

Action - reaction.

When soft caps went and ZoS opened the door to maximum stacking, the natural power creep that accompanies games has created a situation where you must do crazy damage and mitigate crazy damage or you have no shot at winning a fight against a decent player. So we run around in self-sustaining builds that perform all three roles of the holy trinity (damage, DPS, and heal) and those who too inexperienced to know better get rekt.

If you are asking ZoS to nerf survival skills, sets, and mechanics just so it's easy to kill players, that's not something I'm comfortable doing because those players out there with good builds are already tearing through my Wizard's' Riposte, my impen-study, my blocking, my cleansing, my breath of lifing, my vamp-Nord damage reduction as it is. A player who is CCed stands a fair chance of being killed outright if at 65% health, which I see as just as toxic.

Do I like fighting Hattori Hanzo, Escop on AD, or Serra Draconis? No. So I don't. Their builds don't bother me or ruin my PvP experience. What are players who want to be a "tank" supposed to do? If a tank can be killed by a single DPS - which is what some DPS are crying for ZoS to make it so - then the whole concept of a "tank" is bankrupt. Because even noobs can slot a destro ultimate and powerful sets, damage is so easy to come by tanks need powerful tools to just survive. As it is, most tank builds do just that, survive, which makes it really hard for them to do anything meaningful if they aren't attracting a dozen PuGs to beat on them. If you want to take away their tools to survive, they need to be compensated with other meaningful tools to actually do something before they get destroyed by all the damage flying around out there.

zyk

With the exception of camohunter cheese, which was pretty situational, I didn't think damage was out of control from 2.1 (when battlespirit was changed) through 2.3. Heavy armor was viable and useful before its buff. I played a mix of HA and LA builds then.

Then came the itemization update period that turned ESO into Elder Sets Online and the year of the Proctard came and went.

I feel proc sets and the HA buff are different heads of the same lower the ceiling, raise the floor beast. This doesn't mean I think every player who used proc sets or HA are bad. It's the opposite. The most competitive players will usually use what works best. Proc sets have been somewhat addressed, so now it's time to address heavy armor in PVP.

Unfortunately, ZOS knows it can't take permablocking away from PVE casuals, so I cringe proactively at the shieldbreaker-like solution they'll come up with to do this, should it ever occur.

I enjoyed 1.6 and 2.0, but I *really* miss 2.1 and 2.2. It was the least cheesy PVP has ever been IMO.

Autumnhart

Joy_Division wrote: »

Agree ... but I think things are more complicated than this.

... Not only is damage high, damage is easy: undodgable skills, unreflectable projectiles, uninterruptible soul-assaults, defile spamming, proc sets, etc. If you don't stack impen, shield spam, permablock, rolly-polly, you are going to melt. So that's what we do.

And ZoS has not made it easy to survive. Every set of patch notes, I have to read about some survival mechanic or defensive set getting nerfed. Streak dodge, block, Major Mending, Breath of life, shield duration, Malubeth, block again, Troll King, Cloak, etc. Meanwhile, damage keeps getting higher and higher with the power creep. What has ZoS done to reign in the crazy damage out there? Nerf some proc sets (meanwhile Skoria, Selenes, et al. are working just fine) and ... what exactly?

Action - reaction.

When soft caps went and ZoS opened the door to maximum stacking, the natural power creep that accompanies games has created a situation where you must do crazy damage and mitigate crazy damage or you have no shot at winning a fight against a decent player. So we run around in self-sustaining builds that perform all three roles of the holy trinity (damage, DPS, and heal) and those who too inexperienced to know better get rekt.

Yes. The spiral is not new, this is just the current expression of it. What needs to be done is a return of softcaps and the end of the fairy tale that PVE and PVP combat aren't and don't need to be separated. CP and horizontal progression need to be re-thought; continuing on as we are is a mistake. Their strategy instead seems to be periodic bandaids that have unhappy impact on PVE, and not even many of those.

I don't mind long fights and am not happy if I one-shot anybody, but OP is right about this meta. How screwed up is it that so often now your best option is to just walk away.

zyk wrote: »

This isn't an indictment of the players. I think the infamous troll tanks are all very good players. That's sort of the problem. The tool that you give to the PVE casual that allows them to survive without much effort is best exploited by highly competitive, skilled and creative players. One also expects the most competitive players to embrace the most effective tools, no matter how hideous the disease they are compared to is.

It would be nice if ZOS had a consistent, cohesive vision for PVP that they were unafraid to express. In one patch, ball groups get nerfed via changes to purge and rapid maneuvers, but then in the following patches they are made OP again via the destro ult and Earthgore. Likewise, in one patch ZOS nerfs permablocking, and then in a few patches later, it's back.

They have painted themselves and us into this corner by insisting the transition from PVE to PVP must be seamless, the combat the same. Anyone who PVPs knows this is *** - how much gold have you spent this year visiting the respec shrines? Formalize the separation and stop jerking everybody around.

Rohamad_Ali

Joy_Division wrote: »

Agree ... but I think things are more complicated than this.

Speaking for myself, I used to play the sort of build that those players who complain about tanks want out there in Cyrodiil. And it was not fun getting one-shot by NB gankers, destroyed by wrecking blow + executioner combos, and lit up by on demand burst sorcs. F$%& that. So that was the end of using drinks, playing with less than 28K health, and not having half of my bar devoted to defensive or buffs skills. And I have to say, PvPing has since been a lot more enjoyable. At least for me. Probably not the people who fight me with builds that aren't tanky.

My point is that nothing happens in a vacuum. Ever since 1.6, damage has been out of control. It's crazy. I don't even try to DPS and I'm a Nord Templar and even I can burst people down who have over half health. Not only is damage high, damage is easy: undodgable skills, unreflectable projectiles, uninterruptible soul-assaults, defile spamming, proc sets, etc. If you don't stack impen, shield spam, permablock, rolly-polly, you are going to melt. So that's what we do.

And ZoS has not made it easy to survive. Every set of patch notes, I have to read about some survival mechanic or defensive set getting nerfed. Streak dodge, block, Major Mending, Breath of life, shield duration, Malubeth, block again, Troll King, Cloak, etc. Meanwhile, damage keeps getting higher and higher with the power creep. What has ZoS done to reign in the crazy damage out there? Nerf some proc sets (meanwhile Skoria, Selenes, et al. are working just fine) and ... what exactly?

Action - reaction.

When soft caps went and ZoS opened the door to maximum stacking, the natural power creep that accompanies games has created a situation where you must do crazy damage and mitigate crazy damage or you have no shot at winning a fight against a decent player. So we run around in self-sustaining builds that perform all three roles of the holy trinity (damage, DPS, and heal) and those who too inexperienced to know better get rekt.

If you are asking ZoS to nerf survival skills, sets, and mechanics just so it's easy to kill players, that's not something I'm comfortable doing because those players out there with good builds are already tearing through my Wizard's' Riposte, my impen-study, my blocking, my cleansing, my breath of lifing, my vamp-Nord damage reduction as it is. A player who is CCed stands a fair chance of being killed outright if at 65% health, which I see as just as toxic.

Do I like fighting Hattori Hanzo, Escop on AD, or Serra Draconis? No. So I don't. Their builds don't bother me or ruin my PvP experience. What are players who want to be a "tank" supposed to do? If a tank can be killed by a single DPS - which is what some DPS are crying for ZoS to make it so - then the whole concept of a "tank" is bankrupt. Because even noobs can slot a destro ultimate and powerful sets, damage is so easy to come by tanks need powerful tools to just survive. As it is, most tank builds do just that, survive, which makes it really hard for them to do anything meaningful if they aren't attracting a dozen PuGs to beat on them. If you want to take away their tools to survive, they need to be compensated with other meaningful tools to actually do something before they get destroyed by all the damage flying around out there.

@Joy_Division

I agree with the evolution you described in bringing us to this situation . Not blaming any players for chasing meta to avoid over lapping issues that brought Us here . But now that we've arrived the current situation is out of hand . We should be able to run good defense if we choose to avoid big burst dps and the one shot meta . But the ability to defend against entire large groups , even with great DPS , is where the system become flawed and discouraging . Perhaps if Developers could meet Us in the middle somewhere so unkillable is not a term in PVP ?

Publius_Scipio

I feel as though most of the troll and heal tanks i run into are EP. Yeah, I think that's about right. The AD have two that I can come up with. The fake Jon Snow Targareyn and EscobarJuniperio (or something along those lines).

But its true, right now in PvP one of the building blocks of the "pro's formula" is to build around a foundation of being tanky. Even NB's have dialed back some damage to go more tanky and defensive. What's the percentage of players running S&B ult these days? I cede the rest of my time to the #1 ESO streamer, Mrs. Jules Velukodi.

NBrookus

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

A tanking meta is bad for any player that enjoys fast paced PVP .

And dying to two-shot combos and uncounterable damage is bad for any player that doesn't enjoy horse simulator. Which is probably why you also are in a low damage S&B build.

Meanwhile, I saw a lot of uncoordinated play and skills like liquid lightning and wall of elements. That's not hard to "tank" through. Then an overload sorc shows up and down they go.

Publius_Scipio

You know what here is a RADICAL idea.... I don't take credit for it since someone in DC zone chat said it a few weeks ago. What if blocking in ESO only protected you from the front in a cone shape area or 180 degrees and in front of the player? What if? Right now holding block and putting up that shield or weapons in front of you magically protects your a** behind you. Sribes in his 51K health Protect Kodi At All Costs Tank holds block, then you come up behind him and place your blade somewhere between the T8 and T9 vertebrae of his spine.

WaltherCarraway

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

You know what here is a RADICAL idea.... I don't take credit for it since someone in DC zone chat said it a few weeks ago. What if blocking in ESO only protected you from the front in a cone shape area or 180 degrees and in front of the player? What if? Right now holding block and putting up that shield or weapons in front of you magically protects your a** behind you. Sribes in his 51K health Protect Kodi At All Costs Tank holds block, then you come up behind him and place your blade somewhere between the T8 and T9 vertebrae of his spine.

If that’d be a thing then,

[Music intensifies] You spin me right round baby right round like a record baby right round round round...

LegacyDM

The issue far transcends 70k tank builds. The real problem is that wardens can heal ult every 10 seconds and become unkillable. Dks can shield ult every 10 sec and become unkillable. Resto ulting mageblades are impossible to kill. How about Templars that can mist form indefinitly and cast smart heals and bats warm over and over. And of course sorcs shield stacking over and over. Don't even get me started on the 2vx tank builds running guard mowing down zergs. You all see it and know it's out of control. Guess what, most of these builds I just mentioned all run sword and board on back bar while putting out rediculus damage on front bar.

usmcjdking

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

You know what here is a RADICAL idea.... I don't take credit for it since someone in DC zone chat said it a few weeks ago. What if blocking in ESO only protected you from the front in a cone shape area or 180 degrees and in front of the player? What if? Right now holding block and putting up that shield or weapons in front of you magically protects your a** behind you. Sribes in his 51K health Protect Kodi At All Costs Tank holds block, then you come up behind him and place your blade somewhere between the T8 and T9 vertebrae of his spine.

probably me.

180 degrees is too small due to lag, 280-300 is probably the sweet spot.

Positioning is highly important to medium armor and light armor DPS builds, but positioning means *** all when you can AOE block/heal/DPS/tab target and hit dudes behind you. In addition, if they do restrict the blocking radius, they will need to ensure that you are capable of pivoting while rooted the avoid too much counterplay.

Blocking is extraordinarily more potent of a defense than anything else since it requires your opponents to burn more resources than you to drop your block. That is WAI and should not change. However, blocking is typically countered by advantageous positioning, things like medium and light armor are better suited to work with.

Shields are in the same boat as block. The defensive mechanism exists but the counterplay is non-existant as its actually just countergearing.

Rohamad_Ali

NBrookus wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

A tanking meta is bad for any player that enjoys fast paced PVP .

And dying to two-shot combos and uncounterable damage is bad for any player that doesn't enjoy horse simulator. Which is probably why you also are in a low damage S&B build.

Meanwhile, I saw a lot of uncoordinated play and skills like liquid lightning and wall of elements. That's not hard to "tank" through. Then an overload sorc shows up and down they go.

There is no overload Sorc that shows up and takes out Sarah Drakonis . Apologies if mispelled player name but there is never a story with that player that ever ends in "..and then a overload Sorc showed up." Ever . lol

I like Sarah very much and they are a very nice player but no single player ever shows up and takes them out . If you have a video of that happening , please send a link because they are running the very best build for full tank and never have I ever witnessed or even heard of anyone witnessing what you describe . There are two tanks that never die in this vid . Sarah and Myself the whole night I did not die and don't recall seeing them die either .

Also there is no one saying a two shot meta is heathy for PVP but unkillable tanks like some have are not the answer .

amir412

I really dont get those "Nerf tanks builds",
If u wanna build a tank that cant kill any good players, its your choice.
ZOS needs to give this option too, as every MMO has it.

Xsorus

I'm confused what was actually wrong with that gameplay in the video?

I mean...people build tanky because no one likes to die in 2 seconds to say Night blade or Magicka sorc burst...

If you nerf the burst of those classes guess then nerf tanky builds you end up with basically everyone running Light or Medium again.

Are there some insanely tanky builds like 70k templars? Yes..

Do i worry bout them..not really... they're not going to kill me that's for sure.

geonsocal

didn't plague doctor, green pact and beekeeper all just take a hit?

Rohamad_Ali

amir412 wrote: »

I really dont get those "Nerf tanks builds",
If u wanna build a tank that cant kill any good players, its your choice.
ZOS needs to give this option too, as every MMO has it.

You are generalizing a larger conversation to narrow the scope to your own mini topic . This not a generic nerf tanks discussion . Read more into what people are saying .

Rohamad_Ali

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused what was actually wrong with that gameplay in the video?

I mean...people build tanky because no one likes to die in 2 seconds to say Night blade or Magicka sorc burst...

If you nerf the burst of those classes guess then nerf tanky builds you end up with basically everyone running Light or Medium again.

Are there some insanely tanky builds like 70k templars? Yes..

Do i worry bout them..not really... they're not going to kill me that's for sure.

Some players in the video are so tanky people will not engage them because they are unkillable without a Zerg . Is that fun to you having a unkillable build ? That's fine if it is but it does not promote PVP is discouraged PVP when people are avoided . That is the issue here . Tanks fine ... Unkillable tanks , no . Not fine .

Rohamad_Ali

geonsocal wrote: »

didn't plague doctor, green pact and beekeeper all just take a hit?

If those sets took a hit it is irreverent to PVP because those sets were not a issue in PVP or the cause of unkillable tanks in PVP .

Qbiken

I agree on the points that this is a gear problem, mostly due to certain sets being bugged/broken and abused. I don´t agree on CP. Not saying that CP isn´t a part of it but I think gear has a bigger impact than CP with these builds. Then I don´t think the video you link is the best example of a "broken" tank.

Saying that this kind of gameplay/playstyle takes no skill is in my opinion a lie. You can gear up with sets that assist you with this playstyle, but without proper knowledge of how different mechanics synergies you´ll wipe fast anyway. Just look at shady and xintisis when they play there builds. With some observation you´ll start to realise how many things that needs to synergies for these builds to be executed good.

And I think performance issues and big quetimes are a bigger threat to players leaving cyrodil, not certain build setups. Only speaking for myself but I feel more encouraged to play PvP when I see these builds. I want to figure out how they do it so I later on counter them

Xsorus

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused what was actually wrong with that gameplay in the video?

I mean...people build tanky because no one likes to die in 2 seconds to say Night blade or Magicka sorc burst...

If you nerf the burst of those classes guess then nerf tanky builds you end up with basically everyone running Light or Medium again.

Are there some insanely tanky builds like 70k templars? Yes..

Do i worry bout them..not really... they're not going to kill me that's for sure.

Some players in the video are so tanky people will not engage them because they are unkillable without a Zerg . Is that fun to you having a unkillable build ? That's fine if it is but it does not promote PVP is discouraged PVP when people are avoided . That is the issue here . Tanks fine ... Unkillable tanks , no . Not fine .

I mean I watched a couple of those players you were fighting die, sure they didn't die when they had certain players on them but then you'd have another group run up and they'd die in like two seconds.

i mean the people in this video actually seemed pretty standard. Wasn't like I was watching sribes guard a burst warden for example with 50k health on a dk... now that's a tanky duo right there.

I also actually prefer the slower more methodical fights that tanky metas bring then the hey I lined up 3 buttons and instant killed you in 3 seconds.

It's how I use to build my characters in DAOC and for example GW2...

Tanky and generally relying on wearing the targets down.

Biro123

I kind of got bored half way through the vid.. But I'm not really sure if the OP is complaining about this opponents being unkillable or him being unkillable...

Tank vs tank - no-one's gonna die.

Seen some small groups around for a while all built for tanks/heals and only scoring kills with timed ulti-dumps... I've never liked that playstyle. Whether people are copying them or simply reacting to high damage, its hard to say.

One the one hand, if you're fairly new to PVP - or a class or playstyle, I kind of think you have to go fairly tanky to have enough uptime to learn to play it. Put there comes a point where you've figured out surviving and need to start scoring some kills.. My stamplar is currently built for more survivability than damage for this reason. Is definitely not a tank though..

Cause and effect?
My magsorc usually stack a ton of damage. since the sharpened nerf and the buffs to resists on armour sets, people did become more tanky - so I stacked more damage to get the same effect. Am I (and those like me) causing the problem - or by stacking damage to hurt those tanks - are we the solution?

Either way, I think the mitigation-scaling is too much. I mean, I added more damage to my magsorc - cos there were more and more people that I was only hitting for 1.5k with the big attacks... Many others were around 5-6k.. Then all of a sudden, I hit this one guy for 17k.
Being able to build tanky-enough to turn a 17k hit into a 1.5k it is too much..
Being able to turn a 4k damage build into a 17k damage build is too much...
The possible variation on both counts is perhaps a bit too much.

But, what good is a tank build hat can't survive.. ? And in a world of tanks - what good is a DD build that can't kill anything?
Its a hard one to balance in a game where anyone can build for anything.