[VID] Why the Tanking Meta in PVP has become detrimental to PVP health .

Rohamad_Ali

Qbiken wrote: »

I agree on the points that this is a gear problem, mostly due to certain sets being bugged/broken and abused. I don´t agree on CP. Not saying that CP isn´t a part of it but I think gear has a bigger impact than CP with these builds. Then I don´t think the video you link is the best example of a "broken" tank.

Saying that this kind of gameplay/playstyle takes no skill is in my opinion a lie. You can gear up with sets that assist you with this playstyle, but without proper knowledge of how different mechanics synergies you´ll wipe fast anyway. Just look at shady and xintisis when they play there builds. With some observation you´ll start to realise how many things that needs to synergies for these builds to be executed good.

And I think performance issues and big quetimes are a bigger threat to players leaving cyrodil, not certain build setups. Only speaking for myself but I feel more encouraged to play PvP when I see these builds. I want to figure out how they do it so I later on counter them

The video is not focused on any particular player for a reason . I did not want to post a video showing one person the entire time tanking for 13 minutes straight because that would point the finger at individuals , not the issue . Trust me I could post a perfect example but that is not my purpose to "expose" any particular player for playing meta . The entire message would get lost in pointing a figure at a symptom instead of the disease .

If this is the meta you enjoy most I will not argue your personal preference and can only thank you for sharing what you enjoy . There will always be different opinions and I encourage those even if I do not personally agree it is healthy for PVP . I do want any Devpayimg attention to see everyone's reaction to this growing meta . It is not up to me or any one person what best fits ESO PVP , that is ZOS's right alone . So thanks for sharing .

Rohamad_Ali

Xsorus wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused what was actually wrong with that gameplay in the video?

I mean...people build tanky because no one likes to die in 2 seconds to say Night blade or Magicka sorc burst...

If you nerf the burst of those classes guess then nerf tanky builds you end up with basically everyone running Light or Medium again.

Are there some insanely tanky builds like 70k templars? Yes..

Do i worry bout them..not really... they're not going to kill me that's for sure.

Some players in the video are so tanky people will not engage them because they are unkillable without a Zerg . Is that fun to you having a unkillable build ? That's fine if it is but it does not promote PVP is discouraged PVP when people are avoided . That is the issue here . Tanks fine ... Unkillable tanks , no . Not fine .

I mean I watched a couple of those players you were fighting die, sure they didn't die when they had certain players on them but then you'd have another group run up and they'd die in like two seconds.

i mean the people in this video actually seemed pretty standard. Wasn't like I was watching sribes guard a burst warden for example with 50k health on a dk... now that's a tanky duo right there.

I also actually prefer the slower more methodical fights that tanky metas bring then the hey I lined up 3 buttons and instant killed you in 3 seconds.

It's how I use to build my characters in DAOC and for example GW2...

Tanky and generally relying on wearing the targets down.

I understand what you are saying and avoided posting one person as an example to avoid any and all unpleasantries with pointing fingers . Sarah was there in background and no one was engaging them because earlier they were tanking a whole group as usual with out dying . But Sarah's builds or SRIBES builds as you mentioned are well known and shows is that the unkillable tank is out there . Those players are not the issue , the system the Devs have allowed is . I don't know how to describe any better why I kept the video away from targeting individuals . I mean most of Us know what can be done and no one is refuting this so I would like to keep the conversation on what players think the limits should be .

Qbiken

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused what was actually wrong with that gameplay in the video?

I mean...people build tanky because no one likes to die in 2 seconds to say Night blade or Magicka sorc burst...

If you nerf the burst of those classes guess then nerf tanky builds you end up with basically everyone running Light or Medium again.

Are there some insanely tanky builds like 70k templars? Yes..

Do i worry bout them..not really... they're not going to kill me that's for sure.

Some players in the video are so tanky people will not engage them because they are unkillable without a Zerg . Is that fun to you having a unkillable build ? That's fine if it is but it does not promote PVP is discouraged PVP when people are avoided . That is the issue here . Tanks fine ... Unkillable tanks , no . Not fine .

I mean I watched a couple of those players you were fighting die, sure they didn't die when they had certain players on them but then you'd have another group run up and they'd die in like two seconds.

i mean the people in this video actually seemed pretty standard. Wasn't like I was watching sribes guard a burst warden for example with 50k health on a dk... now that's a tanky duo right there.

I also actually prefer the slower more methodical fights that tanky metas bring then the hey I lined up 3 buttons and instant killed you in 3 seconds.

It's how I use to build my characters in DAOC and for example GW2...

Tanky and generally relying on wearing the targets down.

I understand what you are saying and avoided posting one person as an example to avoid any and all unpleasantries with pointing fingers . Sarah was there in background and no one was engaging them because earlier they were tanking a whole group as usual with out dying . But Sarah's builds or SRIBES builds as you mentioned are well known and shows is that the unkillable tank is out there . Those players are not the issue , the system the Devs have allowed is . I don't know how to describe any better why I kept the video away from targeting individuals . I mean most of Us know what can be done and no one is refuting this so I would like to keep the conversation on what players think the limits should be .

When did Sribes post about his build?? must be a myth xD

Rohamad_Ali

Qbiken wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused what was actually wrong with that gameplay in the video?

I mean...people build tanky because no one likes to die in 2 seconds to say Night blade or Magicka sorc burst...

If you nerf the burst of those classes guess then nerf tanky builds you end up with basically everyone running Light or Medium again.

Are there some insanely tanky builds like 70k templars? Yes..

Do i worry bout them..not really... they're not going to kill me that's for sure.

Some players in the video are so tanky people will not engage them because they are unkillable without a Zerg . Is that fun to you having a unkillable build ? That's fine if it is but it does not promote PVP is discouraged PVP when people are avoided . That is the issue here . Tanks fine ... Unkillable tanks , no . Not fine .

I mean I watched a couple of those players you were fighting die, sure they didn't die when they had certain players on them but then you'd have another group run up and they'd die in like two seconds.

i mean the people in this video actually seemed pretty standard. Wasn't like I was watching sribes guard a burst warden for example with 50k health on a dk... now that's a tanky duo right there.

I also actually prefer the slower more methodical fights that tanky metas bring then the hey I lined up 3 buttons and instant killed you in 3 seconds.

It's how I use to build my characters in DAOC and for example GW2...

Tanky and generally relying on wearing the targets down.

I understand what you are saying and avoided posting one person as an example to avoid any and all unpleasantries with pointing fingers . Sarah was there in background and no one was engaging them because earlier they were tanking a whole group as usual with out dying . But Sarah's builds or SRIBES builds as you mentioned are well known and shows is that the unkillable tank is out there . Those players are not the issue , the system the Devs have allowed is . I don't know how to describe any better why I kept the video away from targeting individuals . I mean most of Us know what can be done and no one is refuting this so I would like to keep the conversation on what players think the limits should be .

When did Sribes post about his build?? must be a myth xD

I did not say that right . What I meant is what ever build they are running , the effectiveness is well known . Apologies it is late here .

Tyrion87

I despise everyone who plays these tanky builds because it is the main cause of my bad pvp experience atm. Usually when I see these people, I just let it go and move on.

Now imagine how BGs will look like when they will be CP only... CPs will be the last nail in the coffin.

Rohamad_Ali

Tyrion87 wrote: »

I despise everyone who plays these tanky builds because it is the main cause of my bad pvp experience atm. Usually when I see these people, I just let it go and move on.

Now imagine how BGs will look like when they will be CP only... CPs will be the last nail in the coffin.

Let's try not to despise players for playing a meta in a video game . The frustration is notable and you have a valid concern with Battlefields being effected more by this now but we need to assign blame to the proper place . The game not the players . Encouraging the Devs to take note and make some changes to avoid the worst or best of these builds , depending on your opinion , is the one and only effective way for any possibility of change .

Tyrion87

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

I despise everyone who plays these tanky builds because it is the main cause of my bad pvp experience atm. Usually when I see these people, I just let it go and move on.

Now imagine how BGs will look like when they will be CP only... CPs will be the last nail in the coffin.

Let's try not to despise players for playing a meta in a video game . The frustration is notable and you have a valid concern with Battlefields being effected more by this now but we need to assign blame to the proper place . The game not the players . Encouraging the Devs to take note and make some changes to avoid the worst or best of these builds , depending on your opinion , is the one and only effective way for any possibility of change .

Sorry to say this but I have valid reasons to do so if it makes my pvp experience worse that much. Of course the source of this problem are the devs and their decisions but it is a player who decides to take advantage of it to worsen other people's gameplay. I'm sure it is not exactly how the devs wanted it to be and things simply got out of control here. Pretty much like the exploits. Not the same thing of course but both have many things in common.

technohic

Joy_Division wrote: »

Agree ... but I think things are more complicated than this.

Speaking for myself, I used to play the sort of build that those players who complain about tanks want out there in Cyrodiil. And it was not fun getting one-shot by NB gankers, destroyed by wrecking blow + executioner combos, and lit up by on demand burst sorcs. F$%& that. So that was the end of using drinks, playing with less than 28K health, and not having half of my bar devoted to defensive or buffs skills. And I have to say, PvPing has since been a lot more enjoyable. At least for me. Probably not the people who fight me with builds that aren't tanky.

My point is that nothing happens in a vacuum. Ever since 1.6, damage has been out of control. It's crazy. I don't even try to DPS and I'm a Nord Templar and even I can burst people down who have over half health. Not only is damage high, damage is easy: undodgable skills, unreflectable projectiles, uninterruptible soul-assaults, defile spamming, proc sets, etc. If you don't stack impen, shield spam, permablock, rolly-polly, you are going to melt. So that's what we do.

And ZoS has not made it easy to survive. Every set of patch notes, I have to read about some survival mechanic or defensive set getting nerfed. Streak dodge, block, Major Mending, Breath of life, shield duration, Malubeth, block again, Troll King, Cloak, etc. Meanwhile, damage keeps getting higher and higher with the power creep. What has ZoS done to reign in the crazy damage out there? Nerf some proc sets (meanwhile Skoria, Selenes, et al. are working just fine) and ... what exactly?

Action - reaction.

When soft caps went and ZoS opened the door to maximum stacking, the natural power creep that accompanies games has created a situation where you must do crazy damage and mitigate crazy damage or you have no shot at winning a fight against a decent player. So we run around in self-sustaining builds that perform all three roles of the holy trinity (damage, DPS, and heal) and those who too inexperienced to know better get rekt.

If you are asking ZoS to nerf survival skills, sets, and mechanics just so it's easy to kill players, that's not something I'm comfortable doing because those players out there with good builds are already tearing through my Wizard's' Riposte, my impen-study, my blocking, my cleansing, my breath of lifing, my vamp-Nord damage reduction as it is. A player who is CCed stands a fair chance of being killed outright if at 65% health, which I see as just as toxic.

Do I like fighting Hattori Hanzo, Escop on AD, or Serra Draconis? No. So I don't. Their builds don't bother me or ruin my PvP experience. What are players who want to be a "tank" supposed to do? If a tank can be killed by a single DPS - which is what some DPS are crying for ZoS to make it so - then the whole concept of a "tank" is bankrupt. Because even noobs can slot a destro ultimate and powerful sets, damage is so easy to come by tanks need powerful tools to just survive. As it is, most tank builds do just that, survive, which makes it really hard for them to do anything meaningful if they aren't attracting a dozen PuGs to beat on them. If you want to take away their tools to survive, they need to be compensated with other meaningful tools to actually do something before they get destroyed by all the damage flying around out there.

Yeah loss of soft caps has had a lot to do with things wrong in the game. They've tried to stop these tanks a lot it seems to me; with how blocking works with stam recovery as well nerfs to high health sets. Has done no good as it's been bandaids on flesh wounds.

Valencer

zyk wrote: »

With the exception of camohunter cheese, which was pretty situational, I didn't think damage was out of control from 2.1 (when battlespirit was changed) through 2.3. Heavy armor was viable and useful before its buff. I played a mix of HA and LA builds then.

Then came the itemization update period that turned ESO into Elder Sets Online and the year of the Proctard came and went.

I feel proc sets and the HA buff are different heads of the same lower the ceiling, raise the floor beast. This doesn't mean I think every player who used proc sets or HA are bad. It's the opposite. The most competitive players will usually use what works best. Proc sets have been somewhat addressed, so now it's time to address heavy armor in PVP.

Unfortunately, ZOS knows it can't take permablocking away from PVE casuals, so I cringe proactively at the shieldbreaker-like solution they'll come up with to do this, should it ever occur.

I enjoyed 1.6 and 2.0, but I *really* miss 2.1 and 2.2. It was the least cheesy PVP has ever been IMO.

Well, it's getting tiring repeating the same thing over and over for over a year but you're totally right.

Heavy armour was already viable pre-DB, but required a lot of thought and was mostly being used for niche builds. Most raid healers already ran 5 heavy and could sustain just fine (if they knew what they were doing). To go from that state to the huge buffs heavy armour got still boggles my mind to this day.

People grossly understimate (and always have underestimated) how much heavy armour helps you sustain/survive, even back when it didnt give much actual resource sustain.

Maybe it's more extreme now because of the Sharpened nerfs or whatever, but the tank meta has been ubiquitous for over a year now. The problem is, many updates later the developers have added layer upon layer of extra *** to the game, such as completely unavoidable damage that basically requires you to be in heavy armour to not get popped instantly. The game's changed from being about burst damage and making good use of active defense mechanics, to being about absorbing damage and outhealing it. Sadly the latter is mostly just a numbers game and anyone can pick up that playstyle quickly with how forgiving it is.

Then there's all the spammable "temporary godmode" ultimates they added to the game. Good luck finding anyone to fight who isnt spamming resto ulti, 1h+s ulti or the warden tree ulti (that includes myself). I have almost permanent uptime on my tree ulti on my stamina warden, good luck ever coming close to killing me in a 1 on 1 fight.

Edit: PvE tanks never needed the additional sustain anyway. Completely superfluous.

CyrusArya

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I am not disagreeing you or making this a class specific problem . All classes can obtain such power levels in tanking only in different ways . This is regarding the tanking meta across all class spectrum .

All classes can obtain such levels of tanking, which is why all super tanks are DKs. Makes sense. At any rate, the unkillable tanks are literally a non issue. In order to tank the way they do they give up the ability to kill anybody.

If you're gonna complain about something, complain about the moderately tanky ones that can still deal lethal damage. Even then, I can count on one hand the number of sword and board dps players that can go toe to toe with a proper bleed build.

Yeah, I find sword and board users annoying and honestly the playstyle is very lame to me. But I understand why they exist and I don't think tanking is so terribly unbalanced. The things that might need looking into are the sword and board (and resto) ulti as well as how high block cost reduction can be stacked. But nothing too drastic.

If people are having their PvP experience ruined cus of unkillable yet unlethal tanks, that's on them for being low IQ and literally banging their heads against the wall. Can't balance for stupid.

technohic

Unblockable hard CC that is coming should help with this. Its not the right kind of fixing again, as it likely will hurt people who just use block reactively more than permablock builds, but that seems to be the signature of development here.

Autumnhart

Valencer wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

With the exception of camohunter cheese, which was pretty situational, I didn't think damage was out of control from 2.1 (when battlespirit was changed) through 2.3. Heavy armor was viable and useful before its buff. I played a mix of HA and LA builds then.

Then came the itemization update period that turned ESO into Elder Sets Online and the year of the Proctard came and went.

I feel proc sets and the HA buff are different heads of the same lower the ceiling, raise the floor beast. This doesn't mean I think every player who used proc sets or HA are bad. It's the opposite. The most competitive players will usually use what works best. Proc sets have been somewhat addressed, so now it's time to address heavy armor in PVP.

Unfortunately, ZOS knows it can't take permablocking away from PVE casuals, so I cringe proactively at the shieldbreaker-like solution they'll come up with to do this, should it ever occur.

I enjoyed 1.6 and 2.0, but I *really* miss 2.1 and 2.2. It was the least cheesy PVP has ever been IMO.

... Then there's all the spammable "temporary godmode" ultimates they added to the game. Good luck finding anyone to fight who isnt spamming resto ulti, 1h+s ulti or the warden tree ulti (that includes myself).

Come at me bro!

I have almost permanent uptime on my tree ulti on my stamina warden, good luck ever coming close to killing me in a 1 on 1 fight.

nvm

amir412

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

I really dont get those "Nerf tanks builds",
If u wanna build a tank that cant kill any good players, its your choice.
ZOS needs to give this option too, as every MMO has it.

You are generalizing a larger conversation to narrow the scope to your own mini topic . This not a generic nerf tanks discussion . Read more into what people are saying .

So your'e not complaning about tanks? Because if you do, then its a nerf thread just written in nice words.
BTW, are you the kahjiit dk that plays in this video? If so, thats gonna explain alot.


Dont get me wrong im sick of perma block mag dk's, or 6k WD heavy armor NB build's, but same goes for light armor shield stacking.

Publius_Scipio

DeadlyRecluse

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

3. Gear and CP are at the core of unkillable tanks but more gear then cp . That is why changing the cp system did not address unkillable tanks .

I've yet to run into an unkillable tank in noCP. I do agree that the changes to the CP system were insufficient to address the issue in CP environments, however.

laissezfaire

Take away crouch in PvP and I would be on board with changes to reducing survivability. I don't know how many times I have farmed a resource and PUGs will sit in stealth until enough PUGs are there to try and kill one person. Talk about toxic.

Escorpiao_Noturno

People are more tanking now on days because they got tired to be "burned" in 2 seconds. I don't see any problem with that, people be more tank to survive more.
People who complain about everybody getting more tanking is because before they was used to burn people really fast. And now they are taking more time to kill them and complaining about that.

I prefered to see a 1 minute fight to 1 sec fight.

And there is NO IMMORTAL TANK.
With good 5 players a Pure tank can die with a few seconds.
With bad players could take more time of course.

Let's the tank TANK, let's the healers heal and let's the DPS do damage.

Don't nerf tanks.

Why complaing about Tanks if they cant kill you ?

If everybody is becoming more tank is because the game mecanisc made this.

Don`t want to see immortal tanks, go to NO CP campaing.

As a Tank i will open a post on foruns and complaining about DPS players... For me they are doing too much damage. Sometines is hard to tank 3 guys. For me this is not right. Pure tanks should be able to tank 10+ for a LONG time.

NBrookus

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

A tanking meta is bad for any player that enjoys fast paced PVP .

And dying to two-shot combos and uncounterable damage is bad for any player that doesn't enjoy horse simulator. Which is probably why you also are in a low damage S&B build.

Meanwhile, I saw a lot of uncoordinated play and skills like liquid lightning and wall of elements. That's not hard to "tank" through. Then an overload sorc shows up and down they go.

There is no overload Sorc that shows up and takes out Sarah Drakonis . Apologies if mispelled player name but there is never a story with that player that ever ends in "..and then a overload Sorc showed up." Ever . lol

I like Sarah very much and they are a very nice player but no single player ever shows up and takes them out . If you have a video of that happening , please send a link because they are running the very best build for full tank and never have I ever witnessed or even heard of anyone witnessing what you describe . There are two tanks that never die in this vid . Sarah and Myself the whole night I did not die and don't recall seeing them die either .

Also there is no one saying a two shot meta is heathy for PVP but unkillable tanks like some have are not the answer .

I thought your video wasn't about Severene? And how everyone is a tank? What about all the other people in the video? That sorc kills a lot of them and you can watch your own video again for that. All the super tanks die when focused by a coordinated group, but those groups largely just ignore them because they are only threat when they suck up all randoms and kite them into siege to die.

I don't get the point of complaining about how tanks in pvp are boring... while playing a tank.

Vapirko

I’ve definitely noticed an increase in BOL spamming magplar tanks lately. I’ve been playing in shor though so maybe they’re finally just spilling over into the 7 days. They just spam BOL until a soul assault is available and then knock 26k health off like it’s nothing.

Joy_Division

@Rohamad_Ali -

Unkillable is a relative term. Exactly how many people do you think a "tank" build should be able to hold off? If that number is any larger than 0, then the build is going to be "unkillable." And that number has to be 0 in order for there to be tanks in the first place. So if a tank is going to be a concept in cyrodiil, then there will always be builds where the correct play is to walk away and fight someone else.

To meet us in the middle, as you say, ZoS would have to nerf damage and people will absolutely go ballistic and rage unendingly. So while that may make for a better game, it's not something I think ZoS will do, let alone its customers accept.

Some days I wish that ZoS would put up a 1.5 server just so I can see for myself how much nostalgia and distorted memories have altered our perception of what ESO was or should be.

bubbygink

Agreed with OP about these annoying unkillable builds and want to add that the place they are most damaging to the game is in BGs. Right now, no-CP helps mitigate their effectiveness substantially but ZOS has apparently decided to add CP to BGs which will bring these unkillable cyrodiil tanks in to BGs - but the CP v no-CP debate is for other threads.

The problem that BGs have with the unkillable tanks that cyrodiil doesn't is this: even in this thread people always say "just ignore that tank then, he can't do anything." Well that's the thing, maybe in cyrodiil you can just ignore them and move on but in BGs you can't. And not only that, you'll only have 4 players (8 if the other team helps but they'll be likely to just go for you since you'll be squishier) to help you do it. If it's death match and the whole team is unkillable tanks + healers you have no choice but to senselessly beat on them and hope you can win the 15 min match 1 kill-0-0 or something. CTF, domination, and chaos ball (this one actually won't be too bad because of the damage), they can get a lot of objectives without being able to be killed - that's not pvp, that's just some kind of boring race to see whose unkillable tank can grab relics quicker or sit on flags longer. These matches are insanely boring.

Unkillable tanks are definitely a problem in cyrodiil. But there they can be zerged down or just flat out ignored. In BGs they can't and they just ruin the match. So ZOS, please fix this issue for all of PvP, but especially for BGs.

Publius_Scipio

bubbygink wrote: »

Agreed with OP about these annoying unkillable builds and want to add that the place they are most damaging to the game is in BGs. Right now, no-CP helps mitigate their effectiveness substantially but ZOS has apparently decided to add CP to BGs which will bring these unkillable cyrodiil tanks in to BGs - but the CP v no-CP debate is for other threads.

The problem that BGs have with the unkillable tanks that cyrodiil doesn't is this: even in this thread people always say "just ignore that tank then, he can't do anything." Well that's the thing, maybe in cyrodiil you can just ignore them and move on but in BGs you can't. And not only that, you'll only have 4 players (8 if the other team helps but they'll be likely to just go for you since you'll be squishier) to help you do it. If it's death match and the whole team is unkillable tanks + healers you have no choice but to senselessly beat on them and hope you can win the 15 min match 1 kill-0-0 or something. CTF, domination, and chaos ball (this one actually won't be too bad because of the damage), they can get a lot of objectives without being able to be killed - that's not pvp, that's just some kind of boring race to see whose unkillable tank can grab relics quicker or sit on flags longer. These matches are insanely boring.

Unkillable tanks are definitely a problem in cyrodiil. But there they can be zerged down or just flat out ignored. In BGs they can't and they just ruin the match. So ZOS, please fix this issue for all of PvP, but especially for BGs.

Yeah I think you are absolutely right. I can see how some tanks can annoy other players in open world Cyrodiil.... But it's open world Cyrodiil so who really cares about those tanks if looking at the big picture. Battlegrounds by design is where these tanks can really frustrate other players and where a real tank discussion should be focused. But then again, ESO is one large connected world, and any changes made to tanks to will be felt in Cyrodiil and PvE. And like anything else in the real world, you can't please everyone. Someone somewhere for some reason will not be pleased. And you all know I am right.

Minno

And there are some debuffs that players will have refused to run, especially seeing in your video:
- no one was cc'd from fear or Dawnbreaker. Stam control remained high for these players.
- I didn't see a major fracture+major breach. Everyone here was probably running less than 10k penetration. Where are the mace stamina players debuffing that tank 20% off 34000? That's 7k penetration lost!
- I didn't see blocking from those take flights bursts. In CP all max CP builds have access to 20% block reduction easily. Use it, 50% block mitigation is still strong and easily available for all builds. You don't need sturdy, snb, frost staff, etc. Those are if you want to sustain block like our friendly neighborhood tanks. Just press block on Ultimates; save yourself the horse ride.
- is anyone running 3000-3500 crit resists? 2500 is too low for CP cyro. Boost it to 3k minimum, max it to 3700-3800.
- where are the Templars?!?! 10% extra DMG on blocking targets + puryfing light burst! Easily obtained 80% crit DMG 50% crit chance; negate their impen stacks.
- where are the poisons? The major defiles?
- why was everyone under oils? That's what killed players not the tanks.
-Everyone here was outplayed and their gear stats based on obsolete metrics. 18k minimum armor before percentage stacks. you'll need to know what to dodge, block, heal, run and do that often.

Everytime I'm facing these EP tanks, I see the same list above. Your build had to take the hits, do the healing, dish out the DMG, have a way to debuff players, and know the counters so you can effectively use the Stam cost reductions for CP.

umagon

People have difficulty defeating tanks is because they do not understand how they function mathematically. And refuse to take the time to analyze the tank build find its weaknesses and exploit them. “If you graph the numbers of any system patterns emerge.”

Also, player versus player is not the same as player killing. Player killing is a subset of the pvp experience; and in this game it has little relevance because:

1. Pvp is objective based which involves holding areas and/or scoring points.
2. Death is meaningless as players can resurrect an unlimited amount of times.
3. Zombie player spawn closets (aka camps).
4. There is no open looting of fallen players.

CyrusArya

Actually watched the video....lmao. I can count on one hand the players that are actually 'unkillable' on the PC NA server. With the way you play however, I'm sure you find a lot of builds to be unkillable. And that is 100% a personal l2p issue. Thanks for submitting video evidence as to why your opinions should be dismissed.


Close this thread.

usmcjdking

CyrusArya wrote: »

Actually watched the video....lmao. I can count on one hand the players that are actually 'unkillable' on the PC NA server. With the way you play however, I'm sure you find a lot of builds to be unkillable. And that is 100% a personal l2p issue. Thanks for submitting video evidence as to why your opinions should be dismissed.


Close this thread.

The quality of the gameplay in the video has absolutely no bearing on his statements.

How good of a player he is is entirely inconsequential because the same issue can be found at every single skill level in ESO PVP.

Thelon

CyrusArya wrote: »

With the way you play however, I'm sure you find a lot of builds to be unkillable.

Derra

umagon wrote: »

2. Death is meaningless as players can resurrect an unlimited amount of times.

If death is meaningless why would you try to create a build about not dying?

Publius_Scipio

Derra wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

2. Death is meaningless as players can resurrect an unlimited amount of times.

If death is meaningless why would you try to create a build about not dying?

Video gamer anxieties.

CyrusArya

usmcjdking wrote: »

The quality of the gameplay in the video has absolutely no bearing on his statements.

How good of a player he is is entirely inconsequential because the same issue can be found at every single skill level in ESO PVP.

No it absolutely has bearing. He claims every class can make indestructible builds, and then throws shield stacking sorcs in with sword and board tanks, all while struggling to kill people in this video that I know to be very killable 1v1 let alone while being pug zerged down.

The ability to deal damage and apply pressure is completely consequential to the perception of how killable or tanky builds are, and absolutely will inform someone's impression of balance. I am no fan of the tank builds or play styles, but fact of the matter is that there are only 3 players that fit the bill this guy is describing of being "invincible". But if you took this post at face value, you'd think there are literally invincible all over the place as the video seems to demonstrate.

Such hyperbole and exaggeration does not make for meaningful conversations on balance.