Please stop stunning me

Aisle9

So, we've had this conversation before, but, like Christian Bale's eye wart (for reference), once you notice it, you just can't unsee it and watching the Dark Knight will never be the same.

That said, here's my issue.

Off balance, right now, is broken.

I'm not talking about PvP, setting people off-balance in Cyro requires you to be very skilled(TM), and run the game at 60+ fps, so, don't care, if you pull it off, good for you.

I'm talking strictly PvE, and I'm talking solo. I'm not sure if it's just the one from a shield bash or any.

I couldn't help but notice it in the Vvardenfell public dungeon, the dwemer one, one of the bosses is a couple, and there's a sequence, I really hope it was not intended, cause that stuff is not fun, kudos to the scripter, but, ok, had your fun, you can remove it now. The sequence was a series of stun - off balace - knockbacks that lasted 10 to 15 seconds. By chaining off balance between the stuns I was effectively being stunlocked as I had no time to break free (literally), and, therefore, couldn't get the immunity.

As far as I know, this shouldn't be possible, meaning that after a stun I should have a brief immunity to disabling effects, but the truth is that, as long as you don't break free, or pop an immovability potion, it's not happening, as long as you can chain the stuns with something that sets off balance, like crushing shock or bash and do it within the 3 seconds of the stun duration.

I haven't been able to replicate that because, well, it's not really the highlight of my day, so I haven't really tried to, but this is happening a lot in different instances.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom.

The reason why I didn't post this in the bug section is because I want to ask something as well (also because I don't have a bug to report, not sure if it's intended, I hope not):

Would it be possible to make so that destructive touch could be used to interrupt stuff (Voriak Solkyn, Yokeda Kai, the various flamecasters in vHRC and vMA stage 8, etc) instead of having to use Crushing Shock?

The skill is next to useless as it costs a lot, and does very little, so if it was possible to use that one instead of having to remorph force pulse every time you want to do vMA would be great, cause, you know... I'm not made of stamina... and while 2k gold to remorph is not much, it's kind of annoying to have to set back 40 skill's morph because you needed to change one.

It gets even more annoying if you... you know... actually use Force Pulse, and thus having to sacrifice your build for a magicka interrupt.

Interrupting with a magicka toon is a serious matter, even with 37 points in Bashing Focus (which means I need to sacrifice magicka recovery), and there's that thing where if you have a bunch of mobs all stacked together, you might not interrupt the right one and end up spending all your stamina (which is already pretty low).

Pretty please ?
Thank you

Slick_007

Aisle9 wrote: »

Would it be possible to make so that destructive touch could be used to interrupt stuff (Voriak Solkyn, Yokeda Kai, the various flamecasters in vHRC, etc) instead of having to use crushing shock?

The skill is next to useless as it costs a lot, and does very little, so if it was possible to use that one instead of having to remorph force pulse every time you want to do vMA would be great, cause, you know... I'm not made of stamina... and while 2k gold to remorph is not much, it's kind of annoying to have to set back 40 skill's morph because you needed to change one.

Interrupting with a magicka toon is a serious matter, even with 37 points in Bashing Focus (which means I need to sacrifice magicka recovery), and there's that thing where if you have a bunch of mobs all stacked together, you might not interrupt the right one and end up spending all your stamina (which is already pretty low).

Pretty please ?
Thank you

different spells do different things. they should not be adding an interrupt to destructive touch unless they downgrade destructive touch. then more people would complain.

JamieAubrey

BAH GAWD STONE COLD STUNNA STONE COLD STUNNA

Aisle9

Slick_007 wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Would it be possible to make so that destructive touch could be used to interrupt stuff (Voriak Solkyn, Yokeda Kai, the various flamecasters in vHRC, etc) instead of having to use crushing shock?

The skill is next to useless as it costs a lot, and does very little, so if it was possible to use that one instead of having to remorph force pulse every time you want to do vMA would be great, cause, you know... I'm not made of stamina... and while 2k gold to remorph is not much, it's kind of annoying to have to set back 40 skill's morph because you needed to change one.

Interrupting with a magicka toon is a serious matter, even with 37 points in Bashing Focus (which means I need to sacrifice magicka recovery), and there's that thing where if you have a bunch of mobs all stacked together, you might not interrupt the right one and end up spending all your stamina (which is already pretty low).

Pretty please ?
Thank you

different spells do different things. they should not be adding an interrupt to destructive touch unless they downgrade destructive touch. then more people would complain.

Destructive touch is already downgraded as it is, other than PvP, the skill has no use, as the direct damage is weak for the close to 3.5k magicka cost, the dot is mediocre at best, and the stun doesn't work on elite mobs, despite actually being a spell with a built-in stun.

For all intents and purposes, it should already interrupt.

In PvP it doesn't matter, cause it stuns/knockback, so it will interrupt any cast, unless you're immune to disabling effects, and if you are, it won't interrupt anything, because you're already immune, exactly like Crushing Shock works now.

Also, it can be reflected...

Come on, the spell costs way too much for what it does, because it should do something that doesn't do.

By comparison Crushing Shock does more damage (from 3 different sources), can potentially apply all 3 status effects, Stuns and interrupts... and it only costs 2.2k magicka.

Fischblut

Update 14 "buffed" daedroth in Banished Cells 2 also can stun lock players If you don't have stamina to break out of first CC, second CC gets you again and you don't get CC immunity from any of them. Then third CC if you're unlucky...

Aisle9

Fischblut wrote: »

Update 14 "buffed" daedroth in Banished Cells 2 also can stun lock players If you don't have stamina to break out of first CC, second CC gets you again and you don't get CC immunity from any of them. Then third CC if you're unlucky...

Also, that...

adeptusminor

I've been playing since March and didn't know about CC immunity until somewhat recently because apparently it's been broken this entire time. You are supposed the be invulnerable for 5 seconds or something after you are stunned but Ive never experienced that invulnerability and let me tell you, nothing is more enjoyable in a video game than losing complete control over your character over and over until you die.

WuffyCerulei

Stunning.

Rainraven

adeptusminor wrote: »

I've been playing since March and didn't know about CC immunity until somewhat recently because apparently it's been broken this entire time. You are supposed the be invulnerable for 5 seconds or something after you are stunned but Ive never experienced that invulnerability and let me tell you, nothing is more enjoyable in a video game than losing complete control over your character over and over until you die.

Yes, isn't that delightful. Also incredibly fun: superpowered mage guards in non-CP cyrodiil casting area negate and the ultra-version of eclipse in chain while you kneel there and die.

Best. Game design. Ever.

Joy_Division

If you want an interrupt, just use Crushing Shock. "Sacrifice" DPS? Hardly, the other morph does a mere 10% more, which I can guarantee is utterly irrelevant and imperceptible in the grand scheme of things if a ranged interrupt is the matter of life or death in a Vardenfell public dungeon.

Dasovaruilos

I don't know this particular fight, but this game is way too happy to throw slows, snares, roots and stuns in PvE. It is really super annoying when you kill the enemies that attack you in 2 seconds and then are slowed for 6, only to be slowed again the next second by the next set of enemies that die again in 2 seconds.

And since Morrowind, it is as if they removed the Break Free mechanic from the game, but forgot to remove the stuff that requires you to break free. I know they didn't, but Break Free is completely broken and unreliable, which only makes this even worse.

I would be very happy if ZOS redesigned that aspect of the game and made those mechanics a little bit more expensive or hard to achieve.

It is not fun AT ALL to be constantly slowed and stun-locked in PvP either.

Elsterchen

Using immovable and morphs just prior to engaging in the fight might help as well... next to a nice extra resistance you are immune to disabling effects for 5 seconds. Mixed with shuffle it might help to avoid further stuns too... imo.

Aisle9

Elsterchen wrote: »

Using immovable and morphs just prior to engaging in the fight might help as well... next to a nice extra resistance you are immune to disabling effects for 5 seconds. Mixed with shuffle it might help to avoid further stuns too... imo.

In a Public Dungeon ?! Also, Immovable ?! Also AND SHUFFLE !?

lol, ok, nice, guess it's either stam or gtfo. What about magicka toons ? Considering that popping both shuffle and immovable will effectively deplete my stamina completely for, what, 8s of immunity ?

Joy_Division wrote: »

If you want an interrupt, just use Crushing Shock. "Sacrifice" DPS? Hardly, the other morph does a mere 10% more, which I can guarantee is utterly irrelevant and imperceptible in the grand scheme of things if a ranged interrupt is the matter of life or death in a Vardenfell public dungeon.

Cool story, but beside the point, lightning touch and morphs have the same effect (stun), but doesn't interrupt.

Autumnhart

Aisle9 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Using immovable and morphs just prior to engaging in the fight might help as well... next to a nice extra resistance you are immune to disabling effects for 5 seconds. Mixed with shuffle it might help to avoid further stuns too... imo.

In a Public Dungeon ?! Also, Immovable ?! Also AND SHUFFLE !?

lol, ok, nice, guess it's either stam or gtfo. What about magicka toons ? Considering that popping both shuffle and immovable will effectively deplete my stamina completely for, what, 8s of immunity ?

Essence of Immovability will break you free - atm it's more reliable than Break Free is - and give you ~16 seconds of CC immunity. Depending on which formula you use, you can restore two resource pools or just magicka + spell crit.

Obviously it's just a work-around; they should fix the mechanics. But as work-arounds go at least it doesn't suck.

danno8

Here is a funny video from about a year ago where I get stunned/knockbacked/pulled about 7 times in 15 seconds. I kept it because I thought it was hilarious.

https://youtu.be/tSD2BvzMqVw

dpencil1

@Aisle9
On the topic of getting chain-stunned. You should bug report it if it happens. You should always get 7 seconds of CC immunity after being stunned. Any time that doesn't happen, for any reason, is a bug and should be reported.

On the topic of wanting to use Force Pulse instead of Crushing Shock and wanting an interrupt on Destructive Touch, @Joy_Division was absolutely right. You are fooling yourself if you think that using Force Pulse over Crushing Shock has any meaningful impact on your damage output if you are struggling with Public Dungeon bosses. Just use Crushing Shock if you want an interrupt. Destructive Touch already has unique mechanics that are different from interrupting. What you are asking for is redundant and unnecesaary.

Joy_Division

Aisle9 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Using immovable and morphs just prior to engaging in the fight might help as well... next to a nice extra resistance you are immune to disabling effects for 5 seconds. Mixed with shuffle it might help to avoid further stuns too... imo.

Joy_Division wrote: »

If you want an interrupt, just use Crushing Shock. "Sacrifice" DPS? Hardly, the other morph does a mere 10% more, which I can guarantee is utterly irrelevant and imperceptible in the grand scheme of things if a ranged interrupt is the matter of life or death in a Vardenfell public dungeon.

Cool story, but beside the point, lightning touch and morphs have the same effect (stun), but doesn't interrupt.

Your struggling in a public dungeon and telling me "cool story"? LOL. Not only do you need to L2P, you also have zero grasp that not every skill is supposed to be a do it all wonder. The devs made it such choices between skills and morphs are supposed to matter, which is why we only have 10 slots.

If you want to use Lighting Touch for the stun and Force Pulse for the DPs, then you are just going to have to find an alternative way to interrupt an enemy. If you aren't good enough to bash or don't want to be bothered, then sacrifice the 10% DPS from a single skill for the convenience.

Dracofyre

when i use some 2-handed and used once, and saw some mobs have immunity when i make 2nd hits. when the mobs use chain effect, I HATE IT!
devs need a meeting, In the bathroom, scrubbing the floor!
that how i feels.

zaria

Autumnhart wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Using immovable and morphs just prior to engaging in the fight might help as well... next to a nice extra resistance you are immune to disabling effects for 5 seconds. Mixed with shuffle it might help to avoid further stuns too... imo.

In a Public Dungeon ?! Also, Immovable ?! Also AND SHUFFLE !?

lol, ok, nice, guess it's either stam or gtfo. What about magicka toons ? Considering that popping both shuffle and immovable will effectively deplete my stamina completely for, what, 8s of immunity ?

Essence of Immovability will break you free - atm it's more reliable than Break Free is - and give you ~16 seconds of CC immunity. Depending on which formula you use, you can restore two resource pools or just magicka + spell crit.

Obviously it's just a work-around; they should fix the mechanics. But as work-arounds go at least it doesn't suck.

Overkill in an public dungeon, you drop AoE first and mob dies to it while you are knocked down.
might be something I should look into as healer however, CC or knock down me then boss do heavy damage to group.
I and tank res DD if lucky.

Toc de Malsvi

I can understand the frustration. I don't think fundamentally changing the skill is the way to go about it.

Two things that I think could be done though to alleviate some of these concerns are as follows.

First develop the interface to allow players to remorph specific skills instead of all skills. Still have to travel to the shrines, but saves time when you only want one skill changed. You could even go so far as to combine shrine effects so you could literally just take back skill points one at a time and respend them, passives or morphs. This is already a function used by champion points.

Second add Shrines to the home bases of each alliance in cyrodiil. That way players don't have to reque into cyrodiil when they want to switch setups. But they still have to completely remove themselves from the battle field in order to change setups.

Rainraven

danno8 wrote: »

Here is a funny video from about a year ago where I get stunned/knockbacked/pulled about 7 times in 15 seconds. I kept it because I thought it was hilarious.

https://youtu.be/tSD2BvzMqVw

OMG

I'm pretty mellow about failing, dying, and getting hit by things I don't see coming, but snares and stuns annoy me. I'd have rq over that, kudos if you didn't.

Aisle9

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Aisle9
On the topic of getting chain-stunned. You should bug report it if it happens. You should always get 7 seconds of CC immunity after being stunned. Any time that doesn't happen, for any reason, is a bug and should be reported.

Been happening for a while now and it's been reported multiple times from multiple sources, problem is, nobody knows if it's intended or not. Some say it is, other said it wasn't and it was being looked at.

dpencil1 wrote: »

On the topic of wanting to use Force Pulse instead of Crushing Shock and wanting an interrupt on Destructive Touch, @Joy_Division was absolutely right. You are fooling yourself if you think that using Force Pulse over Crushing Shock has any meaningful impact on your damage output if you are struggling with Public Dungeon bosses. Just use Crushing Shock if you want an interrupt. Destructive Touch already has unique mechanics that are different from interrupting. What you are asking for is redundant and unnecesaary.

Again, not the point. I don't care if it gives or not more dps, I'm just politely asking if it's possible to render an otherwise useless skill slightly more meaningful, but thanks for the input. The point is that one is a damage skill with a morph that stuns, the other is a stun skill, with a morph that does slightly more damage, but doesn't interrupt. I'm sorry if I see some irony in it.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Using immovable and morphs just prior to engaging in the fight might help as well... next to a nice extra resistance you are immune to disabling effects for 5 seconds. Mixed with shuffle it might help to avoid further stuns too... imo.

Joy_Division wrote: »

If you want an interrupt, just use Crushing Shock. "Sacrifice" DPS? Hardly, the other morph does a mere 10% more, which I can guarantee is utterly irrelevant and imperceptible in the grand scheme of things if a ranged interrupt is the matter of life or death in a Vardenfell public dungeon.

Cool story, but beside the point, lightning touch and morphs have the same effect (stun), but doesn't interrupt.

Your struggling in a public dungeon and telling me "cool story"? LOL. Not only do you need to L2P, you also have zero grasp that not every skill is supposed to be a do it all wonder. The devs made it such choices between skills and morphs are supposed to matter, which is why we only have 10 slots.

If you want to use Lighting Touch for the stun and Force Pulse for the DPs, then you are just going to have to find an alternative way to interrupt an enemy. If you aren't good enough to bash or don't want to be bothered, then sacrifice the 10% DPS from a single skill for the convenience.

Yokeda Kai is one of the bosses in Hel Ra Citadel, it ain't a Public Dungeon boss, it's a trial boss.
Voriak Solkyn is the last boss of the last stage in Maelstrom Arena, again, not a Public Dungeon.

And who said I was struggling ?

Guess we should both L2P, or at least learn to read.

Have a good day.

Magdalina

I was with you up until removing interrupt from Crush shock o: No way, man, just no way. Crush shock is fine because you're sacrificing some dps for utility(or the other way round with Force Pulse). Clench could use a slight buff perhaps, but definitely not in interrupt department given the powerful cc it can already provide(...in pvp).

I don't remember having any issues in either of Vvardenfell's publics - perhaps I just got lucky, I also do use Crush shock - but I do very strongly believe they absolutely need to rework/fix how CC immunity works.

adeptusminor wrote: »

I've been playing since March and didn't know about CC immunity until somewhat recently because apparently it's been broken this entire time. You are supposed the be invulnerable for 5 seconds or something after you are stunned but Ive never experienced that invulnerability and let me tell you, nothing is more enjoyable in a video game than losing complete control over your character over and over until you die.

Well it's hard to say what's supposed to happen when devs refuse to talk about it but here's what happens:
1)you get CC immunity after a hard CC expires ONLY IN PVP. It lasts 7 seconds now, just like the one from break free, and they removed it from PvE in the same patch that they extended it to 7 seconds(Homestead iirc). Why we'll never know. I can't think of a single person complaining about that one. Just, like, seriously, what? "We will extend it to 7 seconds...and remove it from PvE at the same time without even mentioning it in the patch notes, just imagine the poor scrubs that will naively try to rely on it in their vMA runs after seeing it in the patch notes and then not get it at all LOL WHAT A GREAT IDEA!!!"
2)even in PvP, you will only get that immunity AFTER CC EXPIRES. Meaning if you get feared and you don't have stam to break free, then you get hit with wrecking blow mid-fear, it can and will knock you back. And then it can and will ping pong you around when cast again until you either die or break free, because the CC immunity will only kick in after CC expires - so if CC never ends, immunity never comes.
3)you (ideally - it's buggy af) will always get CC immunity upon breakfree, in PvP or PvE...but it's insanely buggy. It appears to take about a second to kick in(same with immov potions) so you'll frequently see your character get CC'd even while having pretty white swirls of CC immunity around them.

Alpheu5

Aisle9 wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Would it be possible to make so that destructive touch could be used to interrupt stuff (Voriak Solkyn, Yokeda Kai, the various flamecasters in vHRC, etc) instead of having to use crushing shock?

The skill is next to useless as it costs a lot, and does very little, so if it was possible to use that one instead of having to remorph force pulse every time you want to do vMA would be great, cause, you know... I'm not made of stamina... and while 2k gold to remorph is not much, it's kind of annoying to have to set back 40 skill's morph because you needed to change one.

Interrupting with a magicka toon is a serious matter, even with 37 points in Bashing Focus (which means I need to sacrifice magicka recovery), and there's that thing where if you have a bunch of mobs all stacked together, you might not interrupt the right one and end up spending all your stamina (which is already pretty low).

Pretty please ?
Thank you

different spells do different things. they should not be adding an interrupt to destructive touch unless they downgrade destructive touch. then more people would complain.

In PvP it doesn't matter, cause it stuns/knockback, so it will interrupt any cast, unless you're immune to disabling effects, and if you are, it won't interrupt anything, because you're already immune, exactly like Crushing Shock works now.

Interruptions don't conform to the rules of CC immunity. There's no way to avoid them without outright avoiding the source. If someone uses an immovability potion and starts to resurrect a dead player, I can still use Crushing Shock or a bash to stop them.

Storymaster

Aisle9 wrote: »

So, we've had this conversation before, but, like Christian Bale's eye wart (for reference), once you notice it, you just can't unsee it and watching the Dark Knight will never be the same.

@Aisle9
It's the same with his lisp. Once someone points it out, you can't unhear it.

Spacemonkey

Aisle9 wrote: »

So, we've had this conversation before, but, like Christian Bale's eye wart (for reference), once you notice it, you just can't unsee it and watching the Dark Knight will never be the same.

That said, here's my issue.

Off balance, right now, is broken.

I'm not talking about PvP, setting people off-balance in Cyro requires you to be very skilled(TM), and run the game at 60+ fps, so, don't care, if you pull it off, good for you.

I'm talking strictly PvE, and I'm talking solo. I'm not sure if it's just the one from a shield bash or any.

I couldn't help but notice it in the Vvardenfell public dungeon, the dwemer one, one of the bosses is a couple, and there's a sequence, I really hope it was not intended, cause that stuff is not fun, kudos to the scripter, but, ok, had your fun, you can remove it now. The sequence was a series of stun - off balace - knockbacks that lasted 10 to 15 seconds. By chaining off balance between the stuns I was effectively being stunlocked as I had no time to break free (literally), and, therefore, couldn't get the immunity.

As far as I know, this shouldn't be possible, meaning that after a stun I should have a brief immunity to disabling effects, but the truth is that, as long as you don't break free, or pop an immovability potion, it's not happening, as long as you can chain the stuns with something that sets off balance, like crushing shock or bash and do it within the 3 seconds of the stun duration.

I haven't been able to replicate that because, well, it's not really the highlight of my day, so I haven't really tried to, but this is happening a lot in different instances.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom.

The reason why I didn't post this in the bug section is because I want to ask something as well (also because I don't have a bug to report, not sure if it's intended, I hope not):

Would it be possible to make so that destructive touch could be used to interrupt stuff (Voriak Solkyn, Yokeda Kai, the various flamecasters in vHRC and vMA stage 8, etc) instead of having to use Crushing Shock?

The skill is next to useless as it costs a lot, and does very little, so if it was possible to use that one instead of having to remorph force pulse every time you want to do vMA would be great, cause, you know... I'm not made of stamina... and while 2k gold to remorph is not much, it's kind of annoying to have to set back 40 skill's morph because you needed to change one.

It gets even more annoying if you... you know... actually use Force Pulse, and thus having to sacrifice your build for a magicka interrupt.

Interrupting with a magicka toon is a serious matter, even with 37 points in Bashing Focus (which means I need to sacrifice magicka recovery), and there's that thing where if you have a bunch of mobs all stacked together, you might not interrupt the right one and end up spending all your stamina (which is already pretty low).

Pretty please ?
Thank you

Slot indomnitable.

But yes it is annoying.

Storymaster

Aisle9 wrote: »

Please stop stunning me

Can't help the way I look, darlin'.

Krayzie

JamieAubrey wrote: »

BAH GAWD STONE COLD STUNNA STONE COLD STUNNA

Dope

Danksta

Fischblut wrote: »

Update 14 "buffed" daedroth in Banished Cells 2 also can stun lock players If you don't have stamina to break out of first CC, second CC gets you again and you don't get CC immunity from any of them. Then third CC if you're unlucky...

Just block it then you don't get stunned and it costs less stamina to block than break free.

Elsterchen

Aisle9 wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Using immovable and morphs just prior to engaging in the fight might help as well... next to a nice extra resistance you are immune to disabling effects for 5 seconds. Mixed with shuffle it might help to avoid further stuns too... imo.

In a Public Dungeon ?! Also, Immovable ?! Also AND SHUFFLE !?

lol, ok, nice, guess it's either stam or gtfo. What about magicka toons ? Considering that popping both shuffle and immovable will effectively deplete my stamina completely for, what, 8s of immunity ?

Joy_Division wrote: »

If you want an interrupt, just use Crushing Shock. "Sacrifice" DPS? Hardly, the other morph does a mere 10% more, which I can guarantee is utterly irrelevant and imperceptible in the grand scheme of things if a ranged interrupt is the matter of life or death in a Vardenfell public dungeon.

Cool story, but beside the point, lightning touch and morphs have the same effect (stun), but doesn't interrupt.

Oh, sure. in my mind I was at pledge dungeons, because thats when I use it. Nevertheless, it will work in public dungeons too. ;-)

Jade1986

danno8 wrote: »

Here is a funny video from about a year ago where I get stunned/knockbacked/pulled about 7 times in 15 seconds. I kept it because I thought it was hilarious.

https://youtu.be/tSD2BvzMqVw

That is literally what happens i nthat dungeon.

I know EXACTLY what the OP is talking about, even with a stamina character, you get thrown around like a rag doll. That fight specifically must have been designed while the programmer was drunk off his gorde.