Battlegrounds Bugs and Lack of Features - Still no response from ZOS [Updated 6/11]
Uncle_Sweetshare
✭✭✭✭
Battlegrounds in its current state leaves much to be desired. PvP arenas have been around in MMOs since Ultima Online, which was launched back in 1997. Since then, many MMOs used a relatively similar formula for their PvP arenas, featuring things such as rankings, team balancing, level brackets, choice of game modes, and more. For whatever reason, despite 20 years of tried and tested features being widely available on every other MMO on the market with a PvP arena, ZOS decided to forego all of this and launch Battlegrounds with no structure whatsoever. I've been updating this thread daily in hopes that ZOS will see this and respond in one form or another. If ZOS does plan to implement these features they should inform us so we can stop making threads like these, and if they don't plan on implementing any of these features, they should still inform us so we can stop making these threads.
Hopefully, with everyone's effort we can get some of these changes implemented so Battlegrounds can live up to its full potential as a source for competitive PvP within ESO.
1. Functioning Group Queue [High Priority]
Despite the recent patch 'fixing' this issue, it still persists, and players are getting stuck in 'you or a player in your group has declined' loop for hours on end.
2. Server Side Latency [High Priority]
Leading up to and following the ESO:Morrowind release server stability has been at an all time low, making everything from weaving LA to harvesting a node a hassle. While this is likely due to server load and is affecting everyone, the issue is even more prevalent in Battlegrounds, where just 50ms can mean the difference between life and death.
3. Level Brackets [High Priority]
Currently there are no level brackets, despite the fact that on the ESO website it states Battlegrounds has two brackets (levels 10-49 and levels 10-50).
4. Competitive Queue/ MMR [High Priority]
In addition to level/ gear brackets, we need a separate competitive queue for players Level 50 CP160 and above with a visible MMR/ ranking system.
5. Team Balancing [High Priority]
Matches are consistenly starting with 2v2v4, matching 2 pairs of randoms with a 4 man premade (see #7). Games should not start until there are 4 players on each team.
6. Proc Set Changes [High Priority]
Unavoidable burst procs (Viper/ Red Mountain type) need their damage lowered and/or cooldown raised and/or damage changed to DoT, avoidable burst damage procs (Selene/ Widowmaker/ Velidreth type) need their damage slightly lowered and cooldowns equalized, DoT procs (Illambris/ Grothdarr type) are fine, and support procs (Pirate Skeleton/ Lord Warden type) are fine (excluding Troll King which needs its regen lowered).
Proc sets should also be changed to scale based on Weapon Damage and Stamina, or Spell Power and Magicka instead of flat damage/ heals/ etc. This would slightly lower their effectiveness in non-CP PvP and slightly raise their effectiveness in CP PvP and in PvE.
Quoting myself from another thread (it's a doozey):
7. Option to Reconnect if DC'd/ Crashed [High Priority]
Players should have up to 3 minutes to get back into the game if they DC or crash while in Battlegrounds before the game removes them and gives them the 20 minute deserter's penalty. Players that choose to leave manually via the UI should still be able to do so and incur the leaver's penalty.
8. Stuck in Loading Screen [High Priority]
Players are getting stuck on the loading screen going into Battlegrounds, and after a 3-5 minutes end up where they were before the loading screen with the 20 minute deserter's penalty.
9. Loading in Without Group [High Priority]
This is likely tied to #8, but there have been reports of players queuing as a group, and loading in with another group entirely.
10. Solo/Duo/Trio and 4 Man Team Queues [High Priority]
Those that are queuing with less than 4 players should only play with/ against eachother, and those queuing with 4 players should only play against other 4 player groups. "Team" MMR can be an average of the 4 players within the group.
11. Role Based Queues [High Priority]
There is currently no role selection for Battlegrounds groups, leading group composition to be entirely RNG.
12. Bugged Flag Carriers [High Priority]
Flag sometimes disappears from above flag carrier's head, allowing them to use abilities such as Mist/ Cloak while still in possession of the flag.
13. Reduce Effectiveness/ Remove Resource Drain Poisons [Medium Priority]
The point of Battlegrounds was competitive, fast paced, small scale PvP, and Resource Drain poisons completely negate that second part. There have been numerous proposed solutions to this from the playerbase, but the simplest (beyond just removing them) would be to modify the Battle Spirit buff received while in Battlegrounds to negate the effects of Resource Drain to keep PvP fast paced and enjoyable.
14. Choice of Game Mode [Medium Priority]
A lot of players have their preferred game mode and shouldn't be forced to play 'random' all the time.
15. Improved End-of-Match Rewards [Medium Priority]
XP and AP rewards need to be greatly increased to from 2.5k/4k per match to 10k/15k per match, as you can currently gain more AP by capping a few resources in Cyrodiil than in a Battlegrounds match, and in a quarter of the time.
16. Remove Power Sigils [Medium Priority]
There's no need for additional RNG in ESO's combat, especially in an enclosed arena.
17. Leaderboards [Medium Priority]
The leaderboards should be based on performance, not time played. With an MMR system in place, leaderboards could be based on said MMR for the sake of simplicity.
18. Chat Wheel [Low Priority]
Currently players have no way of communicating with one another outside of typing in group chat. A quick chat wheel should be added with phrases such as "Need healing," "Attack Right," "Defend Left," "Focus on Objective," etc.
19. Non-RNG Battlegrounds Vendor [Low Priority]
Currently the only way to earn Battlegrounds sets is entirely RNG, and although it fits the narrative of the rest of the game, having some non-RNG pieces would be nice (such as Sharpened/ Defending Weapons, Powered/ Defending Resto Staves, etc.).
20. End of Match Screen [Low Priority]
Currently the end of match screen doesn't show every time, and players are pushed directly to a load screen.
21. Additional Game Modes [Low Priority]
To elaborate further on #14, additional game modes should be created, such as 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 Deathmatch.
22. Players Start Match with 0 Ultimate [Low Priority]
Ultimates can be used to gain a massive advantage over opponents in the first few seconds of a game (ie. massive burst damage to grab sigil at the start of a match), and to improve match fluidity each player should start with 0 Ultimate.
23. Non-CP and CP Competitive Queue [Low Priority]
Casual (non-Competitive) Queue can remain non-CP, however the competitive players should be given the choice between non-CP and CP matches, with separate MMRs.
24. Custom Games [Low Priority]
Custom games/ lobbies where you can queue as 12 players and be placed into a match with all 12 players (teams being separated by their small groups).
25. Kick from Spawn [Low Priority]
Some players have felt the need to troll and sit in their spawn, running around so they aren't AFK kicked. As a solution, players should be kicked from the match and incur the deserter's penalty after 30 seconds of sitting in their spawn without leaving.
If anyone has anything they wish to have added to the list feel free to comment and I will add it when I can. Thank you for reading!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @Wrobel
Edited by Uncle_Sweetshare on June 11, 2017 5:33AM Hopefully, with everyone's effort we can get some of these changes implemented so Battlegrounds can live up to its full potential as a source for competitive PvP within ESO.
1. Functioning Group Queue [High Priority]
Despite the recent patch 'fixing' this issue, it still persists, and players are getting stuck in 'you or a player in your group has declined' loop for hours on end.
2. Server Side Latency [High Priority]
Leading up to and following the ESO:Morrowind release server stability has been at an all time low, making everything from weaving LA to harvesting a node a hassle. While this is likely due to server load and is affecting everyone, the issue is even more prevalent in Battlegrounds, where just 50ms can mean the difference between life and death.
3. Level Brackets [High Priority]
Currently there are no level brackets, despite the fact that on the ESO website it states Battlegrounds has two brackets (levels 10-49 and levels 10-50).
4. Competitive Queue/ MMR [High Priority]
In addition to level/ gear brackets, we need a separate competitive queue for players Level 50 CP160 and above with a visible MMR/ ranking system.
5. Team Balancing [High Priority]
Matches are consistenly starting with 2v2v4, matching 2 pairs of randoms with a 4 man premade (see #7). Games should not start until there are 4 players on each team.
6. Proc Set Changes [High Priority]
Unavoidable burst procs (Viper/ Red Mountain type) need their damage lowered and/or cooldown raised and/or damage changed to DoT, avoidable burst damage procs (Selene/ Widowmaker/ Velidreth type) need their damage slightly lowered and cooldowns equalized, DoT procs (Illambris/ Grothdarr type) are fine, and support procs (Pirate Skeleton/ Lord Warden type) are fine (excluding Troll King which needs its regen lowered).
Proc sets should also be changed to scale based on Weapon Damage and Stamina, or Spell Power and Magicka instead of flat damage/ heals/ etc. This would slightly lower their effectiveness in non-CP PvP and slightly raise their effectiveness in CP PvP and in PvE.
Quoting myself from another thread (it's a doozey):
The issue with proc sets comes from multiple players on same teams running multiple unavoidable burst damage procs (Such as Viper, Red Mountain, etc.), and the fact that these sets deal damage outside of your rotation. By that, I mean they can go off during other animations, and don't require an additional key to be pressed or skill to be slotted. Because they're all unavoidable damage that happens outside of your normal rotation, nothing has to be sacrificed in order for them to work. For those reasons I believe that the damage for these sets need to be lowered, the cooldown extended, or the damage changed from DD to DoT.
Next in line would be burst procs that are avoidable, such as Velidreth, Selene, or Widowmaker (which surprisingly hasn't been brought up often here). These sets aren't always avoidable due to CC, no Stamina to dodge, etc., but they are avoidable. Now, let's take Velidreth and compare it to Selene. Velidreth is easily avoidable (the center ball not so much, but for sake of argument) and has a long cooldown, so there's not too much hate on it in here. Selene is also avoidable, but because it hits hard and is on a short cooldown, it gets lots of hate here. Personally, I think the damage on these sets should be slightly lowered, and the cooldowns semi-equalized (so there isn't a clear BiS).
Then we have the DoT procs, and to no one's surprise, there's not a lot of hate on these. Grothdarr procs? Walk away, but if you don't it's okay because you can pop Vigor to out heal the damage. Illambris procs? Get out of the circle, or stand in it and pop Vigor to out heal the damage. Scourge Harvester procs? Stand there in bewilderment that someone is running Scourge Harvester, and pop Vigor to out heal the damage. These sets just aren't very effective in PvP, and I think that they fine in terms of numbers, but would be more viable if the burst set numbers were lowered.
Lastly, we have support proc sets. These also don't get a lot of hate because they all complement builds instead of being the build. You can't exactly make a build that revolves entirely around Pirate Skeleton or Lord Warden (Troll King is the rare exception here), but they're great additional effects to have. On the other hand, there are plenty of builds that revolve around Selene/ Viper/ Widowmaker, where the rest of the build doesn't matter as long as you have a gap closer and CC. Personally I think the support sets are fine where they are, numbers wise.
Long story short, the issue with proc sets isn't proc sets as a whole, but the burst damage procs and the fact that they do massive amounts of damage outside your rotation. I think any time there are clear, across-the-board BiS items for anything (tanking, DPS, healing, etc.), those items need to be reevaluated and tweaked so there isn't a clear BiS.
Next in line would be burst procs that are avoidable, such as Velidreth, Selene, or Widowmaker (which surprisingly hasn't been brought up often here). These sets aren't always avoidable due to CC, no Stamina to dodge, etc., but they are avoidable. Now, let's take Velidreth and compare it to Selene. Velidreth is easily avoidable (the center ball not so much, but for sake of argument) and has a long cooldown, so there's not too much hate on it in here. Selene is also avoidable, but because it hits hard and is on a short cooldown, it gets lots of hate here. Personally, I think the damage on these sets should be slightly lowered, and the cooldowns semi-equalized (so there isn't a clear BiS).
Then we have the DoT procs, and to no one's surprise, there's not a lot of hate on these. Grothdarr procs? Walk away, but if you don't it's okay because you can pop Vigor to out heal the damage. Illambris procs? Get out of the circle, or stand in it and pop Vigor to out heal the damage. Scourge Harvester procs? Stand there in bewilderment that someone is running Scourge Harvester, and pop Vigor to out heal the damage. These sets just aren't very effective in PvP, and I think that they fine in terms of numbers, but would be more viable if the burst set numbers were lowered.
Lastly, we have support proc sets. These also don't get a lot of hate because they all complement builds instead of being the build. You can't exactly make a build that revolves entirely around Pirate Skeleton or Lord Warden (Troll King is the rare exception here), but they're great additional effects to have. On the other hand, there are plenty of builds that revolve around Selene/ Viper/ Widowmaker, where the rest of the build doesn't matter as long as you have a gap closer and CC. Personally I think the support sets are fine where they are, numbers wise.
Long story short, the issue with proc sets isn't proc sets as a whole, but the burst damage procs and the fact that they do massive amounts of damage outside your rotation. I think any time there are clear, across-the-board BiS items for anything (tanking, DPS, healing, etc.), those items need to be reevaluated and tweaked so there isn't a clear BiS.
7. Option to Reconnect if DC'd/ Crashed [High Priority]
Players should have up to 3 minutes to get back into the game if they DC or crash while in Battlegrounds before the game removes them and gives them the 20 minute deserter's penalty. Players that choose to leave manually via the UI should still be able to do so and incur the leaver's penalty.
8. Stuck in Loading Screen [High Priority]
Players are getting stuck on the loading screen going into Battlegrounds, and after a 3-5 minutes end up where they were before the loading screen with the 20 minute deserter's penalty.
9. Loading in Without Group [High Priority]
This is likely tied to #8, but there have been reports of players queuing as a group, and loading in with another group entirely.
10. Solo/Duo/Trio and 4 Man Team Queues [High Priority]
Those that are queuing with less than 4 players should only play with/ against eachother, and those queuing with 4 players should only play against other 4 player groups. "Team" MMR can be an average of the 4 players within the group.
11. Role Based Queues [High Priority]
There is currently no role selection for Battlegrounds groups, leading group composition to be entirely RNG.
12. Bugged Flag Carriers [High Priority]
Flag sometimes disappears from above flag carrier's head, allowing them to use abilities such as Mist/ Cloak while still in possession of the flag.
13. Reduce Effectiveness/ Remove Resource Drain Poisons [Medium Priority]
The point of Battlegrounds was competitive, fast paced, small scale PvP, and Resource Drain poisons completely negate that second part. There have been numerous proposed solutions to this from the playerbase, but the simplest (beyond just removing them) would be to modify the Battle Spirit buff received while in Battlegrounds to negate the effects of Resource Drain to keep PvP fast paced and enjoyable.
14. Choice of Game Mode [Medium Priority]
A lot of players have their preferred game mode and shouldn't be forced to play 'random' all the time.
15. Improved End-of-Match Rewards [Medium Priority]
XP and AP rewards need to be greatly increased to from 2.5k/4k per match to 10k/15k per match, as you can currently gain more AP by capping a few resources in Cyrodiil than in a Battlegrounds match, and in a quarter of the time.
16. Remove Power Sigils [Medium Priority]
There's no need for additional RNG in ESO's combat, especially in an enclosed arena.
17. Leaderboards [Medium Priority]
The leaderboards should be based on performance, not time played. With an MMR system in place, leaderboards could be based on said MMR for the sake of simplicity.
18. Chat Wheel [Low Priority]
Currently players have no way of communicating with one another outside of typing in group chat. A quick chat wheel should be added with phrases such as "Need healing," "Attack Right," "Defend Left," "Focus on Objective," etc.
19. Non-RNG Battlegrounds Vendor [Low Priority]
Currently the only way to earn Battlegrounds sets is entirely RNG, and although it fits the narrative of the rest of the game, having some non-RNG pieces would be nice (such as Sharpened/ Defending Weapons, Powered/ Defending Resto Staves, etc.).
20. End of Match Screen [Low Priority]
Currently the end of match screen doesn't show every time, and players are pushed directly to a load screen.
21. Additional Game Modes [Low Priority]
To elaborate further on #14, additional game modes should be created, such as 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 Deathmatch.
22. Players Start Match with 0 Ultimate [Low Priority]
Ultimates can be used to gain a massive advantage over opponents in the first few seconds of a game (ie. massive burst damage to grab sigil at the start of a match), and to improve match fluidity each player should start with 0 Ultimate.
23. Non-CP and CP Competitive Queue [Low Priority]
Casual (non-Competitive) Queue can remain non-CP, however the competitive players should be given the choice between non-CP and CP matches, with separate MMRs.
24. Custom Games [Low Priority]
Custom games/ lobbies where you can queue as 12 players and be placed into a match with all 12 players (teams being separated by their small groups).
25. Kick from Spawn [Low Priority]
Some players have felt the need to troll and sit in their spawn, running around so they aren't AFK kicked. As a solution, players should be kicked from the match and incur the deserter's penalty after 30 seconds of sitting in their spawn without leaving.
If anyone has anything they wish to have added to the list feel free to comment and I will add it when I can. Thank you for reading!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @Wrobel
PC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!
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Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭24h Bump for visibility.
I don't know if bumping is proper etiquette here on the ESO forums, so please correct me if I'm in the wrong; I'm just very passionate for this game mode and would like to see it improved within ESO.PC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!3 -
essi2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I hope the BGs remain a complete ***, the chaos! I feed on it
The technical side of the BGs needs fixing though.
All of these are good suggestions, but I don't think there are enough players to make it work.
[edited for profanity masking]Edited by ZOS_CoriJ on June 7, 2017 7:02PM"The Heritance are racists yes? Idiots. But dangerous, destabilizing racist idiots." - Razum-dar
"Wood Elves aren't made of wood, Sea Elves aren't made of water. M'aiq still wonders about High Elves" - M'aiq the Liar
** Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-EU) - Leyawiin Layabouts (PC-NA) **
*** https://www.youtube.com/@essi2 - https://www.twitch.tv/essi2 ***3 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭
All of these are good suggestions, but I don't think there are enough players to make it work.
Hopefully there's enough of us that are interested in Battlegrounds to get them to implement at least a few of these changes.
It's really disheartening for them to squander something with so much potential, and I'm afraid if they were look at their Battlegrounds numbers to determine whether or not implementing these changes would be worth the time and money required to make it happen they're going to see greatly reduced numbers because people like myself aren't playing it in its current state, and are waiting on improvements.PC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!1 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally I'd like to see cp stay out of it all together. Otherwise indifferent however adding more queues dilutes each and probably a detriment to queue times.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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LMar✭✭✭✭✭
✭AP rewards are low on purpose. Initially they weren't going to give AP I believe. AP is meant to be earned mostly in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds is just extra top up."If a stick of fish is a fish stick, it will stick like other fish sticks stick"
"Taller races now sit in chairs correctly"2 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭Personally I'd like to see cp stay out of it all together. Otherwise indifferent however adding more queues dilutes each and probably a detriment to queue times.
That's fair, I'm pretty indifferent on the CP vs Non-CP PvP seeing as I'm only CP400, but I can understand CP630+ players wanting to be able to utilize their hard earned CP.
As for the queues, I think the times would stay relatively the same, as while they would get diluted I believe more players would start playing Battlegrounds if there was some semblance of structure and decent rewards.AP rewards are low on purpose. Initially they weren't going to give AP I believe. AP is meant to be earned mostly in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds is just extra top up.
I can understand that, but for a lot of players Cyrodiil isn't fun or competitive, and Battlegrounds was meant to be an alternative way for PvP players to get their fill, but without decent rewards the amount of active players will suffer.PC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!10 -
mihaiisraging✭✭✭Badly Zos won't do any of them soon! I was going to write a similar post...but I'm glad that I found yours (less writing for me)
Also,in my opinion there is a problem for the sets we receive after each match. All of them look pretty useless (or there are better sets in game).
They should really make a difference between pvp and pve sets. Maybe try to add a 10%dmg boost in pvp on weapons and a 2% pvp resistance on armor pieces? Or even add them on 5th set bonus(the dmg boost)for some sets and 1,3,5th set bonus (the resistance)for other sets.
Also...the low rewarding ap will make most players to move back to cyro. I play this game mostly for pvp and I was so excited for morrowind that I prepurchased it like 2months ago and logged only for battlegrounds. I spent even 1h+ in queues just to try to catch it's good points...but it feels like cyro is better,even with the zerg. There would be more to say,but I am afraid that no one of us will be listened.2 -
mihaiisraging✭✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_RichLambert , @Wrobel
Can you,please,take a look? I really like eso....I spent 120days(yes,120days of ~365-400days) in game in my first year of playing, but now me and my friends are thinking about searching a more pvp based mmo.
Battlegrounds really need some changes!4 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭mihaiisraging wrote: »Badly Zos won't do any of them soon! I was going to write a similar post...but I'm glad that I found yours (less writing for me)
Also,in my opinion there is a problem for the sets we receive after each match. All of them look pretty useless (or there are better sets in game).
They should really make a difference between pvp and pve sets. Maybe try to add a 10%dmg boost in pvp on weapons and a 2% pvp resistance on armor pieces? Or even add them on 5th set bonus(the dmg boost)for some sets and 1,3,5th set bonus (the resistance)for other sets.
Also...the low rewarding ap will make most players to move back to cyro. I play this game mostly for pvp and I was so excited for morrowind that I prepurchased it like 2months ago and logged only for battlegrounds. I spent even 1h+ in queues just to try to catch it's good points...but it feels like cyro is better,even with the zerg. There would be more to say,but I am afraid that no one of us will be listened.
I agree wholeheartedly. I believe that a token system where tokens earned from each match (instead of random set pieces) could be used at a Battlegrounds vendor to choose what you want to buy would be much more efficient than the current system; I'll add that to the wishlist.Edited by Uncle_Sweetshare on June 3, 2017 4:44AMPC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!1 -
mihaiisraging✭✭✭Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »
I agree wholeheartedly. I believe that a token system where tokens earned from each match (instead of random set pieces) could be used at a Battlegrounds vendor to choose what you want to buy would be much more efficient than the current system; I'll add that to the wishlist.
They won't add a token system anytime soon...
1 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭mihaiisraging wrote: »Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »
I agree wholeheartedly. I believe that a token system where tokens earned from each match (instead of random set pieces) could be used at a Battlegrounds vendor to choose what you want to buy would be much more efficient than the current system; I'll add that to the wishlist.
They won't add a token system anytime soon...
To be fair, I don't think they will implement any positive changes to Battlegrounds anytime soon. When's the last time ZOS showed that they gave a damn about anything other than profit margins?PC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!5 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BGs need a ranking system. Current BG leaderboards are not competitive, showing only who has the most time to play and not who is actually performing well.4 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »BGs need a ranking system. Current BG leaderboards are not competitive, showing only who has the most time to play and not who is actually performing well.
I agree completely. That's how the H1Z1 leaderboards were initially; it was based off of time played, not performance, and that system only took a year to get scrapped; let's see how long it takes ZOS...
I came to this game to PvP (and enjoy another game in TES series, but I'm a PvP player through and through), and I've barely touched it because of how poorly it's designed.Edited by Uncle_Sweetshare on June 3, 2017 10:28PMPC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!1 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭Edit: Rearranged sections based on priority group, added 2 more sections, modified proc set section.PC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!0 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭Edit: Added another section and fixed a few grammatical errors.
(This thread is posted in multiple locations, and I update it based on input from either thread)Edited by Uncle_Sweetshare on June 5, 2017 12:21AMPC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!0 -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There already seems to be at least some sort of MMR system, we just don't know the details.
On one of the ESO Live videos they explained that the system first attempts to assign teams and match players of similar skill levels, then reaches out to broader criteria if there are not enough people.
Not entirely sure, but what seems to happen in the cases when there are a lot of players queuing of mixed levels and teams seem to be assigned a bit more fairly is that that each team will have one or two beginner players and one or two players with higher KDR.
So far I've never seen a match that was entirely beginner players in all 12 spots.
As for the times when the team size drops down to 2v2v2 or 3v3v3 etc, this seems to occur a lot when there are really very few people queued. Seriously not even enough players to support 4v4v4 sometimes. Then if any of those teams drops below 2 players it seems to kick everyone out with a loading screen.
I'd also suggest increasing the XP and AP rewards should be one of the highest priorities on this list. You simply don't earn nearly enough XP or AP to level up new characters or even level up alliance skill line, buy AP vendor items, etc
Edited by IcyDeadPeople on June 5, 2017 12:36AM1 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »There already is at least some sort of MMR system, we just don't know the details.
On one of the ESO Live videos they explained that the system first attempts to assign teams and match players of similar skill levels, then reaches out to broader criteria if there are not enough people.
Not entirely sure, but what seems to happen in the cases when there are a lot of players queuing of mixed levels and teams seem to be assigned a bit more fairly is that that each team will have one or two beginner players and one or two players with higher KDR.
So far I've never seen a match that was entirely beginner players in all 12 spots.
As for the times when the team size drops down to 2v2v2 or 3v3v3 etc, this seems to occur a lot when there are really very few people queued. Seriously not even enough players to support 4v4v4 sometimes. Then if any of those teams drops below 2 players it seems to kick everyone out with a loading screen.
Imo invisible MMR systems are never good because we have no idea what goes into our rating, how to improve said rating, or what our rating is. Maybe it's attached to an API that someone could make an addon for, but either way we should be able to see what that rating is within the base game.
I haven't seen a match with all sub level 50s on it either, but I've seen PUG teams of 4 with only one level 50, and I've been the only level 50 on a team though, and it sucks, especially when they're still rocking prison clothes and the starter greatsword.
I honestly haven't seen a 2v2v2 yet either, it's typically 2v2v4, with the team of 4 being a premade. I don't believe it to be an issue of not enough people queued, as you can watch these streamers queue back to back and get right into a game (solo queue, the group queue still looks busted) with different players in each game, and any time I have queued for Battlegrounds I've had the queue pop in less than 10 seconds. If the issue is that they're allowing matches to start with 2v2v2 minimum, then they need to just change the queue so it won't pop until there's 12 people. I don't mind waiting a few minutes for a queue; look at CS:GO, or League, or Overwatch. All of those games have minute long (usually longer) queues, and they have hundreds of thousands of players queued.Edited by Uncle_Sweetshare on June 5, 2017 12:48AMPC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!1 -
ezeepeezee✭✭✭✭I must say, I find the BG launch to be very disheartening. Myself and my friends knew from the jump that if BGs went live without a ranking system of any kind, it would be a disaster. You have a lot of new players coming in from the MW launch, and I'm sure that many of them want to jump into the PVP as soon as they can. And what happens? Just like Cyro, they get smashed mercilessly by premade groups of players with years of experience and gear. I've seen it in Cyro and I'm sure it will happen here - this causes many, many players to leave and never look back. This was an enormous missed opportunity to expand the player base.4
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Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭ezeepeezee wrote: »I must say, I find the BG launch to be very disheartening. Myself and my friends knew from the jump that if BGs went live without a ranking system of any kind, it would be a disaster. You have a lot of new players coming in from the MW launch, and I'm sure that many of them want to jump into the PVP as soon as they can. And what happens? Just like Cyro, they get smashed mercilessly by premade groups of players with years of experience and gear. I've seen it in Cyro and I'm sure it will happen here - this causes many, many players to leave and never look back. This was an enormous missed opportunity to expand the player base.
Disheartening is exactly what it is. It doesn't cater to casual or competitive players, and feels like it was tossed together last minute in order to meet unrealistic deadlines (The 15th Anniversary of TESIII: Morrowind). The leads that worked on this need to be replaced, as they clearly haven't played literally any other MMO with an arena.PC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!2 -
Kerioko✭✭✭✭I see BGs going the way of IC. They will be packed for the first month or two because it is a new shiny. Zos will make a few small changes like increasing AP/XP, nerfing power sigil, trying to fix group finder. But the majority of the wanted changes will fall on deaf ears until people are spending hours in que waiting to fight the same teams over and over again.
At that point Zos will introduce something they believe will draw people back, like they did with IC and the district flags. And then you'll have a little hype for a few weeks and it will dwindle back to the back burner where you will just see slight improvements every patch, but no major overhauls.
Dinosaur Chicken Nuggets - Argonian mNB Tank/Heals (PVP)
Strawberry Semifreddo - Dunmer mSorc DPS // Sunny D-Light - Breton mTemp Heals
Peanut Butter Sandwich - Orc sDK DPS // Kellogg's Frosted Flakes - Argonian mWard Tank/Heals (PVE)Cor-Leonisfriendship - integrity - perseverance10 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭I see BGs going the way of IC. They will be packed for the first month or two because it is a new shiny. Zos will make a few small changes like increasing AP/XP, nerfing power sigil, trying to fix group finder. But the majority of the wanted changes will fall on deaf ears until people are spending hours in que waiting to fight the same teams over and over again.
At that point Zos will introduce something they believe will draw people back, like they did with IC and the district flags. And then you'll have a little hype for a few weeks and it will dwindle back to the back burner where you will just see slight improvements every patch, but no major overhauls.
It's honestly depressing. I've never seen a company more hellbent on tarnishing its own reputation and losing massive amounts of potential revenue as ZOS. They cut corners repeatedly to save a few bucks, and end up losing thousands of potential buyers, subs, and existing players because of their poor decisions and lack of awareness of their own game.
The best we can do is keep tagging people and hope for a response and patch, both of which will likely never come.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel
PC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!3 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Is it actually so hard to change the leaderboards to be working like trial, VMA and DSA leaderboards? Only your best run is counted.
Would be milion times better than another emperor-like grindfest.3 -
VincentBlanquin✭✭✭one year back ... Brian Wheeler: "we dont want to rush battlegrounds, we want to make them good"
my bet is they dont implement almost anything from this list. They just bring this small scale live and are done. No problem battlegrounds will be poor, they wanna keep cyrodill as main pvp area.Irwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade5 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »one year back ... Brian Wheeler: "we dont want to rush battlegrounds, we want to make them good"
my bet is they dont implement almost anything from this list. They just bring this small scale live and are done. No problem battlegrounds will be poor, they wanna keep cyrodill as main pvp area.
I would be ok with that if Cyrodiil had been good. The mayor reason we wanted BGs is because Cyrodiil in current state is so bad.Edited by Olupajmibanan on June 5, 2017 7:05AM4 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Very insightfull post but I don´t really agree with some of the issues of procsets. I´m a lover of procsets, won´t deny it.4. Proc Set Changes [High Priority]
As users have suggested in other threads, I think proc set damage needs to scale off of Weapon Damage/ Spell Damage and the relevant attribute (so tanks aren't stacking proc sets and still doing massive amounts of damage), and in addition to that burst proc sets need to be tweaked.
My problems with these statements is that many players Think that Heavy armor = tank. This is simple an assumtion due to the fact that in many MMO`s Heavy armor benefits tanks the most (which it still does). Many MMO`s have very clear roles (tank, healer/support and dps) while ESO gives more freedom (there´re still roles but a healer can still do dmg and DD`s and tanks also have other duties than just tanking and doing dps). So in ESO Heavy armor is not equal to tanking only. You will still do more dmg in light armor and medium armor (with or without procsets) but in PvP people like the extra surviveability of HA (in general) over the extra dmg light/medium armor gives, that´s why it´s "META" in PvP. I often read arguments like: "a tank shouldn´t be able to do damage and survive"........ It´s one thing if some stuff overperforms (which in most case isn´t the case) and needs to be tweaked a Little, but to base your (not you OP but many others) argument on how something "should be" is just as valueable as a rantthread.
Your suggestion that procsets should scale of weapon/spell damage isn´t bad, but it has one flaw. Most players in PvP using Heavy armor still put all attributes into stamina or magicka (which increase your weapon and spelldamage) so that might not help. Some people suggest global CD on procsets but that would hurt defensive procsets as well. Best would be to just lower the dmg on some of the procsets.
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Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭Your suggestion that procsets should scale of weapon/spell damage isn´t bad, but it has one flaw. Most players in PvP using Heavy armor still put all attributes into stamina or magicka (which increase your weapon and spelldamage) so that might not help. Some people suggest global CD on procsets but that would hurt defensive procsets as well. Best would be to just lower the dmg on some of the procsets.
I elaborate as to which sets I believe need to be modified in the spoiler, but it's quite a long read. TL;DR: Unavoidable burst procs (Viper/ Red Mountain type) need their damage lowered and/or cooldown raised and/or damage changed to DoT, avoidable burst damage procs (Selene/ Widowmaker/ Velidreth type) need their damage slightly lowered and cooldowns equalized, DoT procs (Illambris/ Grothdarr type) are fine, and support procs (Pirate Skeleton/ Lord Warden type) are fine (excluding Troll King which needs its regen slightly lowered).
As you mentioned, I wouldn't consider someone running HA necessarily a tank, nor someone wearing MA necessarily not a tank, and so on. I know most tanks still put all attributes into their primary resource, I was more or less referring to the 70k HP tanks running Tremorscale.
The overall idea would be to have scaling effects on proc sets, not just flat damage/ healing/ etc. This would slightly lower their effectiveness in non-CP PvP and slightly raise their effectiveness in CP PvP and in PvE.
@WrobelEdited by Uncle_Sweetshare on June 5, 2017 4:11PMPC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!1 -
VincentBlanquin✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »one year back ... Brian Wheeler: "we dont want to rush battlegrounds, we want to make them good"
my bet is they dont implement almost anything from this list. They just bring this small scale live and are done. No problem battlegrounds will be poor, they wanna keep cyrodill as main pvp area.
I would be ok with that if Cyrodiil had been good. The mayor reason we wanted BGs is because Cyrodiil in current state is so bad.
No. players were masivelly asking for small scale pvp since alpha, but it was always low priority for zenimax, until they figured out that they cant improve cyrodiil much in terms of performance. Sadly, its always a lot of work around small scale pvp to be good, beyond zenimax skills and plans according to me. cyrodiil remain as primary, because its easier to handle it playable of sortEdited by VincentBlanquin on June 5, 2017 7:28AMIrwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade0 -
Uncle_Sweetshare✭✭✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »No. players were masivelly asking for small scale pvp since alpha, but it was always low priority for zenimax, until they figured out that they cant improve cyrodiil much in terms of performance. Sadly, its always a lot of work around small scale pvp to be good, beyond zenimax skills and plans according to me. cyrodiil remain as primary, because its easier to handle it playable of sort
What boggles my mind is they're not shorthanded by any means, but the people they do have working for them are blatantly incompetent. If this was any other industry these people would have been replaced and been likely unable to find another job in the industry, and the company would have to correct the issues at hand immediately.
Unfortunately, in the gaming industry none of these common business practices are common or practiced; these people could get away with murder.Edited by Uncle_Sweetshare on June 5, 2017 8:14AMPC | NA | EP Uninstalled and refunded. I'm just here to laugh at ZOS.
Candy, candy, he makes so much.
Click Here! >>> Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Battlegrounds? <<< Click Here!1 -
VincentBlanquin✭✭✭Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »No. players were masivelly asking for small scale pvp since alpha, but it was always low priority for zenimax, until they figured out that they cant improve cyrodiil much in terms of performance. Sadly, its always a lot of work around small scale pvp to be good, beyond zenimax skills and plans according to me. cyrodiil remain as primary, because its easier to handle it playable of sort
What boggles my mind is they're not shorthanded by any means, but the people they do have working for them are blatantly incompetent. If this was any other industry these people would have been replaced and been likely unable to find another job in the industry, and the company would have to correct the issues at hand immediately.
Unfortunately, in the gaming industry none of these common business practices are common or practiced; these people could get away with murder.
its ESO story from the beginning. there are reports from former zenimax employees, that they dont know what type of game they are starting to develop. play the game from unexperienced studio - pay the price that there will be more flawed systems and devs will learn what do during years (if) and changing everything very often. at least they already know they need to target questing crowdEdited by VincentBlanquin on June 5, 2017 8:23AMIrwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade2
