Can we please have the rationale behind the CP-Enabled BGs change?

Thogard

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

LokoMatic wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

I think Non CP requires more skill to be good. Less relying on sets as you speak about and more reliant on skill and performance. As you said, with no CP you have to limit yourself, forcing your performance to be more based off of skill, rather than the sets that you are using.

The required skill level is the same. CP will simply make the action less fast paced. People are going to die a whole lot less and prolong fights for no real reason.

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

Actually CP reduces build diversity. There are several sets that are very much viable in a no-CP environment that drastically lose viability when transferring to a CP environment. You're parroting the same message but you've given no evidence to support your claims.

Name 1 gear set that is viable in a CP environment but cannot be ran in a no-CP environment, go on, I'll wait.

weird, but you seem to be doing the same? I'll indulge you though- a combination of something like automaton and clever alchemist would leave you with less than desirable amount of stamina for a no cp build, magicka builds can get away with running more nonsensical sets, stamina cant.

Clever alchemist and automaton is literally what I’m running right now for no CP

BroanBeast1215

Thogard wrote: »

Clever alchemist and automaton is literally what I’m running right now for no CP

interesting, what class?

Lexxypwns

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

LokoMatic wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

I think Non CP requires more skill to be good. Less relying on sets as you speak about and more reliant on skill and performance. As you said, with no CP you have to limit yourself, forcing your performance to be more based off of skill, rather than the sets that you are using.

The required skill level is the same. CP will simply make the action less fast paced. People are going to die a whole lot less and prolong fights for no real reason.

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

Actually CP reduces build diversity. There are several sets that are very much viable in a no-CP environment that drastically lose viability when transferring to a CP environment. You're parroting the same message but you've given no evidence to support your claims.

Name 1 gear set that is viable in a CP environment but cannot be ran in a no-CP environment, go on, I'll wait.

weird, but you seem to be doing the same? I'll indulge you though- a combination of something like automaton and clever alchemist would leave you with less than desirable amount of stamina for a no cp build, magicka builds can get away with running more nonsensical sets, stamina cant.

Nah, that was bait sir. Several sets have their effectiveness and efficiency reduced in CP environments. Particularly damage proc sets, they'll do more damage in CP but the need for resource free damage is gone. Furthermore, you're much more able to give up damage to play diverse utility builds in no-CP without needing to increase group size. It's perfectly ok if your spammable does 4K damage in no-CP, if it's only doing 4K+all relevant CP increases in a CP camp you won't be able to put meaningful damage on players.

This means your incentivized much more for stacking damage in a CP campaign, thereby reducing the viability of non-damage sets relative to their viability in no-CP(excepting lich)

Thogard

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Clever alchemist and automaton is literally what I’m running right now for no CP

interesting, what class?

Stamplar. Stole the build from dubzug with some minor adjustments. Using bloodspawn on top.

I make very liberal use of repentance on my backbar though and I’m frequently out of Stam, but I’d rather have be pure dmg to kill people and then be out of Stam than not have the damage at all. Need to use heavy attacks whenever possible.

No CP forces that kind of trade off - giving up one thing in order to get something else. Every build has a weakness that you need to find and exploit. CP is more about skills countering skills since the builds tend to not have to make compromises. I don’t think one is harder than the other but I do think the two modes emphasize different aspects of combat.

Syrusthevirus187

Leandor wrote: »

Everyone has built their BG chars on basis of no-cp. To change it now, this long after they opened, just doesn't make sense.

I think that's the problem right there. A lot of players don't want to build a character just for no cp BG so they don't bother.
PvP content needs to be all the same whether it's cp or no cp.
Lag is a far bigger issue then cp will ever be.

Taylor_MB

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

LokoMatic wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

I think Non CP requires more skill to be good. Less relying on sets as you speak about and more reliant on skill and performance. As you said, with no CP you have to limit yourself, forcing your performance to be more based off of skill, rather than the sets that you are using.

The required skill level is the same. CP will simply make the action less fast paced. People are going to die a whole lot less and prolong fights for no real reason.

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

Actually CP reduces build diversity. There are several sets that are very much viable in a no-CP environment that drastically lose viability when transferring to a CP environment. You're parroting the same message but you've given no evidence to support your claims.

Name 1 gear set that is viable in a CP environment but cannot be ran in a no-CP environment, go on, I'll wait.

weird, but you seem to be doing the same? I'll indulge you though- a combination of something like automaton and clever alchemist would leave you with less than desirable amount of stamina for a no cp build, magicka builds can get away with running more nonsensical sets, stamina cant.

Hahaha.

I've literally been running CA and Automaton since week 1 of Morrowind on my StamBlade in no-cp. With 1pc Veli, 1pc Kena and Max Stam + Stam Regen food.

.... you just.... clearly have no relevant non-CP experience.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

Don’t think anyone here asking for this decision to be looked at again has any problems in cp enabled campaigns. We’ve been playing them for over 2 years. The gameplay is stale and the fights are boring and comes down to numbers, no skill. Non CP is currently the most competitive format for this game and adding CP to battlegrounds is going to inject that same stale, boring, mindless fighting that cyrodill has grown to promote. It’s not that we won’t thrive in BGs without CP, we will, it’s that we don’t WANT to.

Just curious, have you played any BGs??

Actually if you're not zerging, the fights are quite enjoyable. fyi- the fight always comes down to numbers whether you're in no cp or cp enabled, unless you're fighting potatoes.

im not sure where ppl get the idea that if its no cp that means there wont be permablocking immortal cancer players. there is plenty even in bgs. my OP was mainly talking about this threads OP.

Dude this is the second thread you’ve been perusing around in. Do you even play BGs? I challenge you again to how many actual matches you have recorded wins on your profile.

Cyrodill is as bad as it has ever been, there’s virtually no server diversity and this forced huge zergs in to cyrodil. Couple this with everyone running heavy, no death, aids tanks, all people have to do is survive long enough for 5 people to roll in and out number you. In non CP and BGs you actually have opportunities to time burst and finish off a tank if you coordinate burst. I have never came across an unkillable tank in BGs. I’ve had some pain in the asses that I have to drop fears on every diminishing return cooldown to drain their stamina, but they died.

Adding CP to BGs will make them unkillable, just like in cyrodill. I rarely go in cyrodill but I see it EVERY time I go in there now, unkillable builds and huge zergs with very very small windows of opportunity for 1vX. 1vX is hardly a thing in the current state of this game. Hopefully heavy armor nerfs will help somewhat but adding CP to BGs is an awful, terrible idea that is ruining the only cyrodill safe haven we currently have. It’s a fun competitive environment that is in serious danger of losing some long term players who only play BGs due to said cyrodill reasons above.

This will be a final straw for many people I know, and admittedly, myself included.

Kartalin

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

how many actual matches you have recorded wins on your profile.

Is this something you can actually check? I already have the Conquering Hero achieve for winning 50 BGs, does it keep track beyond that?

(Sorry for the derail)

Thogard

Kartalin wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

how many actual matches you have recorded wins on your profile.

Is this something you can actually check? I already have the Conquering Hero achieve for winning 50 BGs, does it keep track beyond that?

(Sorry for the derail)

Lol! I read the whole post too but the only question I had was exactly what you posted.

I’d kill to see my lifetime K:D in BGs on my chars

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Thogard wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

how many actual matches you have recorded wins on your profile.

Is this something you can actually check? I already have the Conquering Hero achieve for winning 50 BGs, does it keep track beyond that?

(Sorry for the derail)

Lol! I read the whole post too but the only question I had was exactly what you posted.

I’d kill to see my lifetime K:D in BGs on my chars

Only tracking I’ve seen is xbox achievements records it. I’ll check around in the journal. I figured other platforms had something similar

Urza1234

damarky wrote: »

Easy fix keep it No CP, and let any player that has the game to Play BG's and give ranking system. Get Better rewards Don't make them pay for DLC to play.

Recapping

1. Keep No CP
2. Ranking system
3. Get Better rewards
4. You only need the game to play (don't have to buy DLC)

Easy

Deserved reposting.

BroanBeast1215

Taylor_MB wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

LokoMatic wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

I think Non CP requires more skill to be good. Less relying on sets as you speak about and more reliant on skill and performance. As you said, with no CP you have to limit yourself, forcing your performance to be more based off of skill, rather than the sets that you are using.

The required skill level is the same. CP will simply make the action less fast paced. People are going to die a whole lot less and prolong fights for no real reason.

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

Actually CP reduces build diversity. There are several sets that are very much viable in a no-CP environment that drastically lose viability when transferring to a CP environment. You're parroting the same message but you've given no evidence to support your claims.

Name 1 gear set that is viable in a CP environment but cannot be ran in a no-CP environment, go on, I'll wait.

weird, but you seem to be doing the same? I'll indulge you though- a combination of something like automaton and clever alchemist would leave you with less than desirable amount of stamina for a no cp build, magicka builds can get away with running more nonsensical sets, stamina cant.

Hahaha.

I've literally been running CA and Automaton since week 1 of Morrowind on my StamBlade in no-cp. With 1pc Veli, 1pc Kena and Max Stam + Stam Regen food.

.... you just.... clearly have no relevant non-CP experience.

lol you're an idiot, glad that works for your stamblade bruh.
I played non cp from 130cp up unti about 450cp when I could hold my own in vivec

oh and for the guy who think I don't play bgs(lol) I have every achievement except the chaosball ones.

BroanBeast1215

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

Don’t think anyone here asking for this decision to be looked at again has any problems in cp enabled campaigns. We’ve been playing them for over 2 years. The gameplay is stale and the fights are boring and comes down to numbers, no skill. Non CP is currently the most competitive format for this game and adding CP to battlegrounds is going to inject that same stale, boring, mindless fighting that cyrodill has grown to promote. It’s not that we won’t thrive in BGs without CP, we will, it’s that we don’t WANT to.

Just curious, have you played any BGs??

Actually if you're not zerging, the fights are quite enjoyable. fyi- the fight always comes down to numbers whether you're in no cp or cp enabled, unless you're fighting potatoes.

im not sure where ppl get the idea that if its no cp that means there wont be permablocking immortal cancer players. there is plenty even in bgs. my OP was mainly talking about this threads OP.

Dude this is the second thread you’ve been perusing around in. Do you even play BGs? I challenge you again to how many actual matches you have recorded wins on your profile.

Cyrodill is as bad as it has ever been, there’s virtually no server diversity and this forced huge zergs in to cyrodil. Couple this with everyone running heavy, no death, aids tanks, all people have to do is survive long enough for 5 people to roll in and out number you. In non CP and BGs you actually have opportunities to time burst and finish off a tank if you coordinate burst. I have never came across an unkillable tank in BGs. I’ve had some pain in the asses that I have to drop fears on every diminishing return cooldown to drain their stamina, but they died.

Adding CP to BGs will make them unkillable, just like in cyrodill. I rarely go in cyrodill but I see it EVERY time I go in there now, unkillable builds and huge zergs with very very small windows of opportunity for 1vX. 1vX is hardly a thing in the current state of this game. Hopefully heavy armor nerfs will help somewhat but adding CP to BGs is an awful, terrible idea that is ruining the only cyrodill safe haven we currently have. It’s a fun competitive environment that is in serious danger of losing some long term players who only play BGs due to said cyrodill reasons above.

This will be a final straw for many people I know, and admittedly, myself included.

honestly sounds like you don't play cp campaign at all. everytime I log in(mostly weekends) I find smallscale pvp. and little to no "unkillable" tanks

bubbygink

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol you're an idiot, glad that works for your stamblade bruh.
I played non cp from 130cp up unti about 450cp when I could hold my own in vivec

oh and for the guy who think I don't play bgs(lol) I have every achievement except the chaosball ones.

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

honestly sounds like you don't play cp campaign at all. everytime I log in(mostly weekends) I find smallscale pvp. and little to no "unkillable" tanks

What server/platform are you on? If you happen to be XBox then post your gamertag. Because it doesn't sound like you do a lot of BGs.

Baconlad

Guys....the most beautiful thing happened in CP BGs tonight...i had a bg that didnt have a single stamina nightblade...was so wonderful accually being able to equip more than one damage set...

JWillCHS

FoolishHuman wrote: »

It was already explained.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4523002#Comment_4523002

To explain this change a bit, we've found (through data and feedback) that the majority of players tend to flock more toward CP-enabled campaigns, so we wanted to open that same selection for Battlegrounds and will be testing it out. We’ve considered adding an option between the two as some of you have suggested, but this would cause the population to become pretty divided and we want to make sure you can join Battlegrounds quickly. All that said, if we find this option simply isn’t popular or there’s a higher preference to have Battlegrounds be non-CP, we’ll simply change it back. Thanks for all the feedback so far!

This was the obvious answer and one I fully understand. But even before the Champion Point system was implemented I wasn't positive about it.

The positive take away from BGs now is that there are more players and since resource management isn't as big of an issue you can focus more on attacking your enemy.

But the skill gap is much larger and without an MMR system It's even more chaotic than before. I also dislike how the 1v1 fights last too long and group fights tend to last even longer.

There are a ton of new players and at least for the first night queues were quick. With that said, DO THE DAMN OBJECTIVE. I've had back to back game where the power creeps rather engage in combat than capture the relic or secure flag point in Domination.

Also, one thing I find odd is the overall flow and time taken in BGs now. Since we're now engaged in longer fights I'm seeing a lot of matches determined by the time limit(or near). This happened before, but I find it to be a problem when there's a single team dominating the other two. The win should have been achieved a long time ago.

There is definitely a night and day difference. I played with some BG regulars having varying degrees of success and winning 9 out the 12 matches I did last night. I wouldn't consider us amazing but premade groups have an easier time steam rolling others in CP BGs. The tank meta from Cyrodiil is in full affect too. I don't like the idea of stacking damage(even though you could do it before with a huge trade off). With the Champion Point system you can negate or at least minimize the innate flaws built into the class.

I understand the popularity of CP, but at least for BGs I do not consider this fun. So many fights are absolute stalmates with everyone having an oh-*** button. My heals as a Magplar...utterly ridiculous.

BroanBeast1215

bubbygink wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol you're an idiot, glad that works for your stamblade bruh.
I played non cp from 130cp up unti about 450cp when I could hold my own in vivec

oh and for the guy who think I don't play bgs(lol) I have every achievement except the chaosball ones.

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

honestly sounds like you don't play cp campaign at all. everytime I log in(mostly weekends) I find smallscale pvp. and little to no "unkillable" tanks

What server/platform are you on? If you happen to be XBox then post your gamertag. Because it doesn't sound like you do a lot of BGs.

I didn't do BGs before clockwork city update cuz no cp pvp is aids. and im not on xbox

HEBREWHAMMERRR

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

bubbygink wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol you're an idiot, glad that works for your stamblade bruh.
I played non cp from 130cp up unti about 450cp when I could hold my own in vivec

oh and for the guy who think I don't play bgs(lol) I have every achievement except the chaosball ones.

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

honestly sounds like you don't play cp campaign at all. everytime I log in(mostly weekends) I find smallscale pvp. and little to no "unkillable" tanks

What server/platform are you on? If you happen to be XBox then post your gamertag. Because it doesn't sound like you do a lot of BGs.

I didn't do BGs before clockwork city update cuz no cp pvp is aids. and im not on xbox

So you’re opinion on nonCP BGs is 100% irrelevant. Got it.

@LokoMatic see what I mean? Ha

BroanBeast1215

lmao. actually I got all the achievements in non cp, ever heard of exaggeration?

LokoMatic

So you just stated you never played non-cp BG's, and now you are stating you got all the achievements in non cp? wat?

BroanBeast1215

LokoMatic wrote: »

So you just stated you never played non-cp BG's, and now you are stating you got all the achievements in non cp? wat?

you're right, my bad. I should have clarified my statement, I did BGs when they were nCP but I never tried to rank on leaderboards, I did manage to get all the achievements but ive preferred CPpvp since I was about 300cp

inb4 "you prefer cp cuz you're not as skilled argument"

Thogard

It was sarcasm not Exaggeration

BroanBeast1215

Thogard wrote: »

It was sarcasm not Exaggeration

lolollol


you know what I meant O.o

Thogard

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

It was sarcasm not Exaggeration

lolollol


you know what I meant O.o

true but i can't climax with my gf until i've corrected someone over the internets. Just FYI.

Morgul667

Please remove CP from BG

FloppyTouch

I left bgs bc of the que and pre made groups stomping random single ques not cp or non cp

They need to fix that part for me to come back cp or not won’t change anything

AhPook_Is_Here

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

A least from this sub-forum, it looks pretty clear that BG players are opposed to this change. With that said, if there was a very strong rationale for why it is being implemented, or at least tested, then perhaps we could accept it. If ZOS believes that the BG population is dangerously low and this is the only way it will be fixed, or if CP-enabled battlegrounds have been internally tested and have not proven to be the unbalanced mess we expect them to be, let us know.

As it stands, this change is just thrown in our face with no reasoning to support it. At least share ZOS's design perspective here to help us understand why this change, one we don't want, is occurring.

What she will tell you is that they saw a demand for it on the forums and thought it might increase BG liquidity with a broader player base. The reality is, marketing decided some people didn't buy Morrowind because of No-CP battle grounds, so they added CP battle grounds to see if some people might buy Morrowind before they have to go though their holiday discounting process that all old game content hits by Thanksgiving. IF you don't live in a freedom loving democracy that celebrates Thanksgiving, it's a US holiday in the 3rd week of November where stuff goes on sale to celebrate our awesomeness.

Waffennacht

I got baited by a troll nvm

BroanBeast1215

Waffennacht wrote: »

I got baited by a troll nvm

Thogard

Honestly, now that I’m used to it I don’t really mind anymore. Tanks are more annoying but you can still ignore them

In every mode except CTR! The change to CTR’s gameplay actually bugs me a lot more than the CP enablement.

I also have a huge sense of guilt whenever I 2sec a CP 200. It didn’t seem fair before, but now I KNOW it’s not fair and that bugs me a little.