Can we please have the rationale behind the CP-Enabled BGs change?

MurderMostFoul

@ZOS_GinaBruno

A least from this sub-forum, it looks pretty clear that BG players are opposed to this change. With that said, if there was a very strong rationale for why it is being implemented, or at least tested, then perhaps we could accept it. If ZOS believes that the BG population is dangerously low and this is the only way it will be fixed, or if CP-enabled battlegrounds have been internally tested and have not proven to be the unbalanced mess we expect them to be, let us know.

As it stands, this change is just thrown in our face with no reasoning to support it. At least share ZOS's design perspective here to help us understand why this change, one we don't want, is occurring.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Even so, if the population is struggling there are MUCH better solutions to solve this. Two of the most obvious are a MMR ranking system implement and the second being make it more rewarding. I know plenty of great players who love BGs but we aren't rewarded properly or even in line with what cyrodill is offering. This would stimulate the BG population 5x as much as forcing CP on us.

Leandor

Everyone has built their BG chars on basis of no-cp. To change it now, this long after they opened, just doesn't make sense.

If CP BGs must be in, they should be implemented in addition, not as replacement.

Phase out no-cp BGs later, if actual number of participants substantiates the decision.

Koolio

There could be an entire player base that want to play CP Battlegrounds. Just a guess.

LokoMatic

Koolio wrote: »

There could be an entire player base that want to play CP Battlegrounds. Just a guess.

Too bad the majority of polling has shown that the player base wants Non CP BG's to remain.

Koolio

LokoMatic wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

There could be an entire player base that want to play CP Battlegrounds. Just a guess.

Too bad the majority of polling has shown that the player base wants Non CP BG's to remain.

The "majority" of the polling lol. There are thousands of people on console who never look at the forums. My pvp only guild of 50 might go do some Battlegrounds now. I've done maybe 15 maybe lower. I just prefer open world. When I ask "Hey you guys want to go into BGs?" I get "No I haven't got a no CP build and don't feel like messing with it let's just stay in cyrodiil"

I don't want them to remove the NoCP option. Maybe people seeing the difference in between the two might like CP better or vice versa.

When the PVP event came out what did the player base vote on? CP.

They had to open multiple CP campaign because that's what people wanted. Even waiting in a 250+ que for it. That speaks more than a poll. Lol.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Koolio wrote: »

LokoMatic wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

There could be an entire player base that want to play CP Battlegrounds. Just a guess.

Too bad the majority of polling has shown that the player base wants Non CP BG's to remain.

The "majority" of the polling lol. There are thousands of people on console who never look at the forums. My pvp only guild of 50 might go do some Battlegrounds now. I've done maybe 15 maybe lower. I just prefer open world. When I ask "Hey you guys want to go into BGs?" I get "No I haven't got a no CP build and don't feel like messing with it let's just stay in cyrodiil"

I don't want them to remove the NoCP option. Maybe people seeing the difference in between the two might like CP better or vice versa.

When the PVP event came out what did the player base vote on? CP.

They had to open multiple CP campaign because that's what people wanted. Even waiting in a 250+ que for it. That speaks more than a poll. Lol.

You don't need a "NonCP build" to be competitive in BGs. If that's honestly what your guild of 50 pvp only players actually believe, I hate to say this, they need to get better. CP won't enable them to succeed in a 4v4v4 format.

LokoMatic

People will not like CP BG better, that is a guarantee. If you have PVP experience than I am sure you have seen meta tanks tank 10+ people with ease, incredibly frequently in any CP campaign.

This playstyle will ruin BG's, and everything they were intended to accomplish.

Any good player will excel in BG's now because it is more reliant on skill. "Non CP Builds" are literally gear sets you wear, the beauty of its casual nature.

Not sure if you have read the forums but there is a pretty large backlash from experienced PVP players advocating to not change its current structure.

Koolio

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

LokoMatic wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

There could be an entire player base that want to play CP Battlegrounds. Just a guess.

Too bad the majority of polling has shown that the player base wants Non CP BG's to remain.

The "majority" of the polling lol. There are thousands of people on console who never look at the forums. My pvp only guild of 50 might go do some Battlegrounds now. I've done maybe 15 maybe lower. I just prefer open world. When I ask "Hey you guys want to go into BGs?" I get "No I haven't got a no CP build and don't feel like messing with it let's just stay in cyrodiil"

I don't want them to remove the NoCP option. Maybe people seeing the difference in between the two might like CP better or vice versa.

When the PVP event came out what did the player base vote on? CP.

They had to open multiple CP campaign because that's what people wanted. Even waiting in a 250+ que for it. That speaks more than a poll. Lol.

You don't need a "NonCP build" to be competitive in BGs. If that's honestly what your guild of 50 pvp only players actually believe, I hate to say this, they need to get better. CP won't enable them to succeed in a 4v4v4 format.

I don't mind it and definitely see what people like about it. They just don't like it.

We do really well. We could always get more coordinated and better. That's why we log on everyday. Duel everyday. Test everyday. Theory craft everyday.

That doesn't mean they want to do BGs. Especially since launch was so bad. Que system was completely broken. It won't enable us succeed but it might get them to actually do them for a change though. As opposed to just ignoring them entirely. I want the player base to have the choice. He asked what the reasoning behind CP BGs. So I gave him one. Maybe people want to use their character progress that they got for using in pvp in the first place.

Dottzgaming

I also hope they realize theyre isolating players in between CP160 and cap, since if you're in between those levels you will be at a disadvantage

The player base does show though that people prefer CP cyro to no CP cyro, so my guess is that they're changing to CP based on this. But BGs aren't cyrodiil, they're totally different. They should remain no CP and they'll have a better chance enticing people to queue if there are better rewards, mmr, etc. There's alot of different solutions and ideas.

Storymaster

When a crab is in danger, it raises its claws to appear more menacing. However, to larger apex predators, such as humans, this has the inadvertent effect of making the crab appear more cute.

Curtdogg47

Why don't they add CP BG's and keep No CP BG's? Give people both options.

Ankael07

I dont get it... is it so hard to implement both noCP and CP at the same time? Why is something almost always half-[snip] when it comes to PVP? First Midyear Mayhem event with hurrendous lag and now CP only Battlegrounds.

[Edited to remove profanity]

FoolishHuman

It was already explained.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4523002#Comment_4523002

To explain this change a bit, we've found (through data and feedback) that the majority of players tend to flock more toward CP-enabled campaigns, so we wanted to open that same selection for Battlegrounds and will be testing it out. We’ve considered adding an option between the two as some of you have suggested, but this would cause the population to become pretty divided and we want to make sure you can join Battlegrounds quickly. All that said, if we find this option simply isn’t popular or there’s a higher preference to have Battlegrounds be non-CP, we’ll simply change it back. Thanks for all the feedback so far!

damarky

Easy fix keep it No CP, and let any player that has the game to Play BG's and give ranking system. Get Better rewards Don't make them pay for DLC to play.

Recapping

1. Keep No CP
2. Ranking system
3. Get Better rewards
4. You only need the game to play (don't have to buy DLC)

Easy

However if you really want to try CP BG than have both queues open for 3 month trial and after one month of having both options. Pretty much any top 100 BG player will tell you that most will stay with choosing NO CP over CP. Those CP players that come and try CP BG's will switch to No CP.

Drakkdjinn

The rationale?

The majority prefers crutch point pvp without having tried noCP PvP (except that one time when BGs launched and they didn't work, or not at all if they didn't want to pay $40 for something tied to Morrowind that has nothing to do with Morrowind), also ZoS is lazy.

MurderMostFoul

The ZOS explanation was posted after I started this thread.

FoolishHuman wrote: »

It was already explained.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4523002#Comment_4523002

To explain this change a bit, we've found (through data and feedback) that the majority of players tend to flock more toward CP-enabled campaigns, so we wanted to open that same selection for Battlegrounds and will be testing it out. We’ve considered adding an option between the two as some of you have suggested, but this would cause the population to become pretty divided and we want to make sure you can join Battlegrounds quickly. All that said, if we find this option simply isn’t popular or there’s a higher preference to have Battlegrounds be non-CP, we’ll simply change it back. Thanks for all the feedback so far!

Waffennacht

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

The ZOS explanation was posted after I started this thread.

FoolishHuman wrote: »

It was already explained.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4523002#Comment_4523002

To explain this change a bit, we've found (through data and feedback) that the majority of players tend to flock more toward CP-enabled campaigns, so we wanted to open that same selection for Battlegrounds and will be testing it out. We’ve considered adding an option between the two as some of you have suggested, but this would cause the population to become pretty divided and we want to make sure you can join Battlegrounds quickly. All that said, if we find this option simply isn’t popular or there’s a higher preference to have Battlegrounds be non-CP, we’ll simply change it back. Thanks for all the feedback so far!

Well that makes sense. It's more a test than anything else

Beardimus

CP gunna break the fast action of BG

I see the logic, i.e. In Cyro the big pop is in CP but BG is good that its different ad its different play. And I'm unaure nonCP has stopped a gone going BG who wanted to by now. I'll play either way, but thing its gunna slow the action

A BIGGER game changer is splitting the premade queue. Getting spanked is what puts people off the most

Defilted

If they offered non-CP and CP BG's do you think that the Non-CP BG would sustain is current POP? I think offering both is the best option.

If there a less people that like an option, so what..This way both sides of the opinion get to enjoy the game play they like.

Kartalin

FoolishHuman wrote: »

It was already explained.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4523002#Comment_4523002

To explain this change a bit, we've found (through data and feedback) that the majority of players tend to flock more toward CP-enabled campaigns

I think that's partly false reasoning on the part of ZOS. A lot of players enjoyed that time when all campaigns were temporarily no CP. The problem is that the guilds on Vivec really just want consistent action, and unless multiple major guilds commit to leaving Vivec, the campaign is still going to be the one players gravitate towards. Some may play there specifically to use their CP, but that's not the sole reason.

brandonv516

Realistically they should have started with two queues: a no-CP and a CP Battlegrounds.

Then from statistics over the last several months they would clearly see what is more popular or desired.

Right now they are just throwing pebbles in puddles.

BroanBeast1215

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

LokoMatic

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

I think Non CP requires more skill to be good. Less relying on sets as you speak about and more reliant on skill and performance. As you said, with no CP you have to limit yourself, forcing your performance to be more based off of skill, rather than the sets that you are using.

HEBREWHAMMERRR

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

Don’t think anyone here asking for this decision to be looked at again has any problems in cp enabled campaigns. We’ve been playing them for over 2 years. The gameplay is stale and the fights are boring and comes down to numbers, no skill. Non CP is currently the most competitive format for this game and adding CP to battlegrounds is going to inject that same stale, boring, mindless fighting that cyrodill has grown to promote. It’s not that we won’t thrive in BGs without CP, we will, it’s that we don’t WANT to.

Just curious, have you played any BGs??

Crom_CCCXVI

I was never opposed to CP....

I think it's broken right now, we have a combat game where people can literally choose not to die. The answer wasn't a bunch of nuclear Ult's either, that has created the whole no death (wait until I get a destro ult to stack with my friends) builds that are just crap right now..

and now you want to take that worthless garbage into BG, a series of games where people need to die frequently for them to be any fun at all?

It is pretty much the worst idea in 3 years.. the games simply won't work.---- and I really don't need to wait and see, because I play PvP.. zergs can't kill some of the builds, how the hell are 4 people going to do it?

Crom_CCCXVI

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

That is an entire joke. CP is all about a build, copy the right build off Youtube and anyone can be OP. It's weak. You screw up in NO CP and your dead.---- Non CP is about rotations, and ultimates, and timing and actually putting the damage on someone.. (and your not running away)--- again, CP is about build. period. The sheild stacking Sorc meta rotation is a laughably easy, my 7 year old daughter could play a the no death DK, it's literally skill less.

I have almost 800 CP, I play in both, I know how it works. If you stink in no CP your dead, any clown can run an Alacast no death tank or whatever the current build your buddies are talking about right now and just troll away. Your post is spoken like someone who just hasn't played enough Non-CP, or got smoked and had to run back to the safety of their Meta Build.

Lexxypwns

LokoMatic wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

I think Non CP requires more skill to be good. Less relying on sets as you speak about and more reliant on skill and performance. As you said, with no CP you have to limit yourself, forcing your performance to be more based off of skill, rather than the sets that you are using.

The required skill level is the same. CP will simply make the action less fast paced. People are going to die a whole lot less and prolong fights for no real reason.

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

Actually CP reduces build diversity. There are several sets that are very much viable in a no-CP environment that drastically lose viability when transferring to a CP environment. You're parroting the same message but you've given no evidence to support your claims.

Name 1 gear set that is viable in a CP environment but cannot be ran in a no-CP environment, go on, I'll wait.

Emma_Overload

The reason you have CP battlegrounds now is because a lot of people like me complained about the No-CP battlegrounds and refused to play them. But we never asked them to REMOVE No-CP altogether!

BroanBeast1215

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

Don’t think anyone here asking for this decision to be looked at again has any problems in cp enabled campaigns. We’ve been playing them for over 2 years. The gameplay is stale and the fights are boring and comes down to numbers, no skill. Non CP is currently the most competitive format for this game and adding CP to battlegrounds is going to inject that same stale, boring, mindless fighting that cyrodill has grown to promote. It’s not that we won’t thrive in BGs without CP, we will, it’s that we don’t WANT to.

Just curious, have you played any BGs??

Actually if you're not zerging, the fights are quite enjoyable. fyi- the fight always comes down to numbers whether you're in no cp or cp enabled, unless you're fighting potatoes.

im not sure where ppl get the idea that if its no cp that means there wont be permablocking immortal cancer players. there is plenty even in bgs. my OP was mainly talking about this threads OP.

BroanBeast1215

Lexxypwns wrote: »

LokoMatic wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

I think Non CP requires more skill to be good. Less relying on sets as you speak about and more reliant on skill and performance. As you said, with no CP you have to limit yourself, forcing your performance to be more based off of skill, rather than the sets that you are using.

The required skill level is the same. CP will simply make the action less fast paced. People are going to die a whole lot less and prolong fights for no real reason.

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

lol this thread is pathetic. people play non cp because it's easier. its got nothing to do with build diversity or anything like that. tbh with no cp you have to limit yourself(depending on class) to what sets you can run in order to be successful. CP allows me to run any number of builds whether it be 2h/s&b; DW/2h or hell even 2h/resto staff for lulz. ive been wrecking ppl in cp enabled campaigns since 400cp if you can't, I'd argue that you need to get gud

Actually CP reduces build diversity. There are several sets that are very much viable in a no-CP environment that drastically lose viability when transferring to a CP environment. You're parroting the same message but you've given no evidence to support your claims.

Name 1 gear set that is viable in a CP environment but cannot be ran in a no-CP environment, go on, I'll wait.

weird, but you seem to be doing the same? I'll indulge you though- a combination of something like automaton and clever alchemist would leave you with less than desirable amount of stamina for a no cp build, magicka builds can get away with running more nonsensical sets, stamina cant.