Healer weapon Trait: Power vs Precise

Tasear

Which has a greater benefit?

AlMcFly

It's my understanding that Precise improves the chance of Critical to occur, and your extra heals comes form the critical occurring more often. Powered raises healing across the board by 7%, including when you obtain a critical hit. I would rather be consistently healing more than sometimes get a critical hit more often.

Also, a healers shouldn't be worried about getting more damage out of their restoration staff, so Precise's weapon effect is a secondary concern. Depending on the build though, I'm sure the difference between the two is minimal anyway. To each their own though.

paulsimonps

AlMcFly wrote: »

It's my understanding that Precise requires a Critical to occur in order to proc the improved 7% heal. Powered raises healing across the board by 7% regardless of whether the skill Criticals.

Precise increases the chance of making a critical heal, which increases it by a base of 50%.

My thought however is that stronger base heal will also grant stronger crit heals, as well I am a fan of the minor lifesteal debuff, which is a strong HoT in both 4 man and 12 man content and is only buffed by Healing Done and Healing received, so stacking Healing done in the way of Powered Trait and other sources can make it really strong, as well that it increases your other heals obviously. And while your chance to crit will be slightly lower without precise, it will make your heals much stronger when you do crit.

AlMcFly

paulsimonps wrote: »

AlMcFly wrote: »

It's my understanding that Precise requires a Critical to occur in order to proc the improved 7% heal. Powered raises healing across the board by 7% regardless of whether the skill Criticals.

Precise increases the chance of making a critical heal, which increases it by a base of 50%.

My thought however is that stronger base heal will also grant stronger crit heals, as well I am a fan of the minor lifesteal debuff, which is a strong HoT in both 4 man and 12 man content and is only buffed by Healing Done and Healing received, so stacking Healing done in the way of Powered Trait and other sources can make it really strong, as well that it increases your other heals obviously. And while your chance to crit will be slightly lower without precise, it will make your heals much stronger when you do crit.

Sorry, I edited my mistake before I refreshed and saw your response. You are just too quick on the "reply" train there pal ;P

Tasear

AlMcFly wrote: »

It's my understanding that Precise requires a Critical to occur in order to proc the improved 7% heal. Powered raises healing across the board by 7% regardless of whether the skill Criticals.

The base critical is 50% increase to the base amount (probably like 74% with champion points) , but to achieve this amount it has to proc a critical. Most healers are at the bast about of 32% using precise (for next patch) will get you to 41% chance with precise staff combined with thief mundus you at 50%

Now the question is that greater than say ritual mundus 15% with divines more healing and powered trait 9% (after next patch).


I am leaning towards precise, but actually looking for a second or third opinion.

AlMcFly

Tasear wrote: »

The base critical is 50% increase to the base amount, but to achieve this amount it has to proc a critical. Most healers are at the bast about of 32% using precise (for next patch) will get you to 41% chance with precise staff combined with thief mundus you at 50%

Now the question is that greater than say ritual mundus 15% with divines more healing and powered trait 9% (after next patch).

You must have started to quote my comment, but didn't finish writing it for 8 minutes. Check my edit and timestamp

I stand by my original statement. As a healer, I'm not gearing up to increase Critical Rate. I'm gearing up to Increase Magicka Pool, Magicak Regen, and consistent heals. To place any emphasis on Critical Rate will detract in those other, arguably more important, areas.

Septimus_Magna

I think it depends on your spell crit but in general its better to run powered.

Powered 7% healing done:
Assuming 45% spell crit
Normal heal: 5k
Crit heal: 7,5k
Average heal: 5k x 0.55 + 7,5k x 0.44 = 6,125k +7% = 6,55k

Precise 7% spell crit:
Assuming 52% spell crit
Normal heal: 5k
Crit heal: 7,5k
Average heal: 5k x 0,48 + 7,5k x 0.52 = 6.3k

Tasear

paulsimonps wrote: »

AlMcFly wrote: »

It's my understanding that Precise requires a Critical to occur in order to proc the improved 7% heal. Powered raises healing across the board by 7% regardless of whether the skill Criticals.

Precise increases the chance of making a critical heal, which increases it by a base of 50%.

My thought however is that stronger base heal will also grant stronger crit heals, as well I am a fan of the minor lifesteal debuff, which is a strong HoT in both 4 man and 12 man content and is only buffed by Healing Done and Healing received, so stacking Healing done in the way of Powered Trait and other sources can make it really strong, as well that it increases your other heals obviously. And while your chance to crit will be slightly lower without precise, it will make your heals much stronger when you do crit.

That's a good point, I almost overlook that. It's not like it won't critical just a slightly lower chance 1/3 compared to say 1/2. Also minor lifesteal is very nice. You can just tell them they died... because they spotted working. I know some dps... who don't actually attack in normal trials. Of course you need more than that for healing... but still.

Megabear

With heals I always lean toward consistency. Increasing base heal also increase crit value anyway.

Tasear

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

I think it depends on your spell crit but in general its better to run powered.

Powered 7% healing done:
Assuming 45% spell crit
Normal heal: 5k
Crit heal: 7,5k
Average heal: 5k x 0.55 + 7,5k x 0.44 = 6,125k +7% = 6,55k

Precise 7% spell crit:
Assuming 52% spell crit
Normal heal: 5k
Crit heal: 7,5k
Average heal: 5k x 0,48 + 7,5k x 0.52 = 6.3k

Thanks

Tasear

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

I think it depends on your spell crit but in general its better to run powered.

Powered 7% healing done:
Assuming 45% spell crit
Normal heal: 5k
Crit heal: 7,5k
Average heal: 5k x 0.55 + 7,5k x 0.44 = 6,125k +7% = 6,55k

Precise 7% spell crit:
Assuming 52% spell crit
Normal heal: 5k
Crit heal: 7,5k
Average heal: 5k x 0,48 + 7,5k x 0.52 = 6.3k

But wait isn't the base spell crtical for most healers around 32%

Average heal: 5k x 0.55 + 7,5k x 0.32 =3280k +7% = 3,509k ?

AlMcFly

Tasear wrote: »

But wait isn't the base spell crtical for most healers around 32%

Average heal: 5k x 0.55 + 7,5k x 0.32 =3280k +7% = 3,509k ?

I'm sure he's already factoring in the class passives of either Templar or Mage. Mebbe?

GrumpyDuckling

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

I think it depends on your spell crit but in general its better to run powered.

Powered 7% healing done:
Assuming 45% spell crit
Normal heal: 5k
Crit heal: 7,5k
Average heal: 5k x 0.55 + 7,5k x 0.44 = 6,125k +7% = 6,55k

Precise 7% spell crit:
Assuming 52% spell crit
Normal heal: 5k
Crit heal: 7,5k
Average heal: 5k x 0,48 + 7,5k x 0.52 = 6.3k

If we factor in damage (which precise will boost) then might precise be better to run in general? For example, if dungeon healers are using Lightning Staff to proc off balance, they're also damaging enemies (along with other skills). So while the numbers suggest powered for better healing, might precise be a better overall choice?

Merlin13KAGL

Powered, flat out.

Powered: 7% increased heals 100% of the time (including crits) -> 7% minimum increase.

vs

Precise: +50% increased heals and additional 7% of the time ~ 3.5% maximum increase.

Your base crit chance won't even matter when figuring the difference because it will remain the same before the addition of the trait.

Septimus_Magna

Tasear wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

I think it depends on your spell crit but in general its better to run powered.

Powered 7% healing done:
Assuming 45% spell crit
Normal heal: 5k
Crit heal: 7,5k
Average heal: 5k x 0.55 + 7,5k x 0.44 = 6,125k +7% = 6,55k

Precise 7% spell crit:
Assuming 52% spell crit
Normal heal: 5k
Crit heal: 7,5k
Average heal: 5k x 0,48 + 7,5k x 0.52 = 6.3k

But wait isn't the base spell crtical for most healers around 32%

Average heal: 5k x 0.55 + 7,5k x 0.32 =3280k +7% = 3,509k ?

Most healers run Inner Light or spell crit potions which gets your spell crit to 42%. Sorcs in group can give minor prophecy which is another 3% spell crit but its not a very common buff.

The calculation was just a quick way to show the difference with a relative normal spell crit rating.

Jeremy

Tasear wrote: »

Which has a greater benefit?

Both are good. It really depends on your build and what it is you are trying to accomplish.

In terms of pure healing - I tend to favor critical rate above all else.

When I play my critical build - my critical rate is 72% (and that's without any temporary buffs). Or at least it was before the last patch (which I've been unable to successfully download). So I'm not sure if that number is still possible. But I would suspect that it is (probably even higher).

Healing % is nice because it is always active and not reliant on a critical heal. So if your critical rate is mid to low it is probably the preferred method for boosting your heals.

To be honest - I prefer defending trait on my staves though for most of the things I do. Having a good defense is very useful as a healer - especially with all the fake tanks running around these days.

ofSunhold

Defending, at least until next patch.

Tasear

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

I think it depends on your spell crit but in general its better to run powered.

Powered 7% healing done:
Assuming 45% spell crit
Normal heal: 5k
Crit heal: 7,5k
Average heal: 5k x 0.55 + 7,5k x 0.44 = 6,125k +7% = 6,55k

Precise 7% spell crit:
Assuming 52% spell crit
Normal heal: 5k
Crit heal: 7,5k
Average heal: 5k x 0,48 + 7,5k x 0.52 = 6.3k

But wait isn't the base spell crtical for most healers around 32%

Average heal: 5k x 0.55 + 7,5k x 0.32 =3280k +7% = 3,509k ?

Most healers run Inner Light or spell crit potions which gets your spell crit to 42%. Sorcs in group can give minor prophecy which is another 3% spell crit but its not a very common buff.

The calculation was just a quick way to show the difference with a relative normal spell crit rating.

Thanks I had forgotten to consider potions. On that note.. is powered better without inner light?

Eiagra

My Spell Crit is standing at 70.8%. *shrug* I'd say it depends on your build.

code65536

In terms of average healing output, Powered is always better than Precise, regardless of your crit chance.

Where Precise is nice is when you are doing a combination of healing and DPS--particularly if you're doing 4-person content like dungeons or vDSA. But for pure healing, like in vet trials, I'd take Powered over Precise.

Defending is also a good option for your main resto bar, since the incoming damage in some vet trials is very high (e.g., Void Spheres on Rakkhat HM) and a dead healer does no healing. And for your lightning staff back bar, Charged is a good option for better Concussion uptime.

Juhasow

Infused with Torug's Pact and shock dmg enchant to proc it elemental blockade ticks more often and 20/40% chance to apply concussed statuss effect

Tasear

code65536 wrote: »

In terms of average healing output, Powered is always better than Precise, regardless of your crit chance.

Where Precise is nice is when you are doing a combination of healing and DPS--particularly if you're doing 4-person content like dungeons or vDSA. But for pure healing, like in vet trials, I'd take Powered over Precise.

Defending is also a good option for your main resto bar, since the incoming damage in some vet trials is very high (e.g., Void Spheres on Rakkhat HM) and a dead healer does no healing. And for your lightning staff back bar, Charged is a good option for better Concussion uptime.

That's what I was thinking, but I wanted to know for sure if that was the case. Also it would be nice if that defending twlight staff drops in resto... but then again.... is it worth it after the next patches where defending is halved for 2 handed weapons.

Jeremy

code65536 wrote: »

In terms of average healing output, Powered is always better than Precise, regardless of your crit chance.

That isn't what my testing showed.

Boosting my critical chance to where I could reliably crit with my heals was more more effective at healing my character than was increasing it through raw percentages. For example: I compared Precise/Thief to Powered/Ritual. Precise/Thief gave me stronger heals more often.

So we've had different experiences there.

Tasear

Juhasow wrote: »

Infused with Torug's Pact and shock dmg enchant to proc it elemental blockade ticks more often and 20/40% chance to apply concussed statuss effect

Why would it be 40% should only be 20%? nvm

Edit

Weapon enchants 20%
Standard ability 10% (single target, initial hit only)
Area of effect abilities 5% (initial hit only)
Damage over time abilities 3% (single target DoT only)
Area of effect damage over time abilities 1%

x2 with desto passive

Tasear

Jeremy wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

In terms of average healing output, Powered is always better than Precise, regardless of your crit chance.

That isn't what my testing showed.

Boosting my critical chance to where I could reliably crit with my heals was more more effective at healing my character than was increasing it through raw percentages. For example: I compared Precise/Thief to Powered/Ritual. Precise/Thief gave me stronger heals more often.

So we've had different experiences there.

what's your critical?

Jeremy

Tasear wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

In terms of average healing output, Powered is always better than Precise, regardless of your crit chance.

That isn't what my testing showed.

Boosting my critical chance to where I could reliably crit with my heals was more more effective at healing my character than was increasing it through raw percentages. For example: I compared Precise/Thief to Powered/Ritual. Precise/Thief gave me stronger heals more often.

So we've had different experiences there.

what's your critical?

72%.

It's easy enough to test to see which is better for you. Just go find something that hits hard (like a World boss maybe) and throw up all your HoTs and see which keeps your HP up better (that's what I did).

There might be other factors involved as well besides just your critical chance. Such as what specific spells and buffs you use, where you put your CP points etc. Every build is likely to interact with it differently and have different results.

PS4_ZeColmeia

So I actually love healing with my spinner's sharp resto staff on my mageblade. Sounds dumb right? Think of this: funnel health and HA with resto staff restore health based on the amount of damage done. You also get major mending from HA. It therefore makes sense to do more damage with your resto staff HA then follow up with funnel health for a better HoT and then Sap Essence to help kill faster while under the effect of major mending.

Tasear

Jeremy wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

In terms of average healing output, Powered is always better than Precise, regardless of your crit chance.

That isn't what my testing showed.

Boosting my critical chance to where I could reliably crit with my heals was more more effective at healing my character than was increasing it through raw percentages. For example: I compared Precise/Thief to Powered/Ritual. Precise/Thief gave me stronger heals more often.

So we've had different experiences there.

what's your critical?

72%.

That's why seems like earlier we determine standards buffs (mage light, potions, sorc passive) any increase in critical seems to make precise the better choice. Along with the obvious aftereffects for hybrids healers/dps.

Sanctum74

Unless it's changed since Morrowind then nirnhoned should still give bigger heals than powered.

Precise would depend on your build and would probably win out over time, but I'd rather have bigger heals without having to rely on a crit.

On the flip side if you're dead then you can't heal so defending is always a good option as well.

Tasear

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Unless it's changed since Morrowind then nirnhoned should still give bigger heals than powered.

Precise would depend on your build and would probably win out over time, but I'd rather have bigger heals without having to rely on a crit.

On the flip side if you're dead then you can't heal so defending is always a good option as well.

wait wait... nirnhoned increases heals, by 10% is that what you are saying... not just damage?

Sanctum74

Tasear wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Unless it's changed since Morrowind then nirnhoned should still give bigger heals than powered.

Precise would depend on your build and would probably win out over time, but I'd rather have bigger heals without having to rely on a crit.

On the flip side if you're dead then you can't heal so defending is always a good option as well.

wait wait... nirnhoned increases heals, by 10% is that what you are saying... not just damage?

Heals scale off of spell damage and max magic so increasing your spell damage also increases your heals. There is probably some threshold that if your spell damage is really low then powered might be better, but when I tested it I had 2600 spell power and I was getting much bigger heals with nirnhoned then powered.

Wearing sets that increase healing might put powered on top, not sure how that passive would scale with nirn vs powered since eso can sometimes use some real fuzzy math xD