PvE Combat is too easy! Please add a Vet mode for overland content.

tunepunk

For the love of god increase the difficulty!!! There's no sense of danger anywhere, people are forced to solo vet group content just for challenge. Nothing hurts... Make every encounter hard and memorable, even if it's just against 2-3 thunderbugs. My average encounter in overland content is about 1-2 seconds, for a group of enemies. Yes i feel powerful, but it's to the point of being boring.

Or at least add a Vet mode, for ALL content, with a bit more XP, and better drops, where you actually could fail. Unless you're soloing a world boss, nothing barely tickles.

I used to remember getting steamrolled by swarms of bees in craglorn, or one shotted by take aim, if I forgot to block, but i could take them out, if i played right. I want to feel powerful, but I also want to feel that If I mess up or don't use some tactics like block, roll dode, etc I might end up dead.

I just rolled a new char a few weeks ago. Went from lvl 1-50 without a single death, just doing some random quests, and quest lines, and that's with mostly green and blue gear, not even sets. Mostly equipped what i found on the way. Most quest line bosses drop in a few seconds, since there is usually a bunch of other people hammering away as well. I don't block I don't even roll, in any overland content. I rather use break free once in a while, because it's not even hurting to get hit by anything.

When things are so easy to do solo, there's not even any point to team up with a friend to complete stuff, just just walk straight through it. Yesterday I teamed up with a lower level character who wanted to grind some XP together for fun in a public dungeon. And I could notice that he was struggling to get some hits off before the enemies was dead. I had to change tactics so that he start to engage with acid spray or barrage or some other AOE so at least he could get a few hits before they died.

The current difficulty level is not fun, and it doesn't give you any incentive to do things together. I enjoy solo stuff if it's challenging, but i also like to team up maybe duo with someone, but there's no point to team up really.

Please add a difficulty setting or something!

Anyone else feel that overland content is too easy? Or do you experience it being hard enough?

EDIT: Updated title to better reflect what I'm trying to say.

Questing and exploring content with a high CP char is not fun at all, because it's too easy.

EDIT 2: Add. TLDR:

* Group dungeons have a Normal mode and a Vet Mode - perfect!
* Trials have a normal mode and a Vet Mode - Perfect!
* Maelstorm arena has ha Normal Mode and a vet mode - Perfect!
* Quests and exploration do not have it <-- a Vet mode for this is what I'm looking for!

Turelus

Overland I feel is in the right place, sure it's a cake walk when you're legendary gear, C630 optimised builds but that's not what the content was designed or balanced around.

The end game challenge is veteran group content or Maelstrom, that's where the testing is. Sure some of it's old and easy now due to mechanics being known etc.

As I always say if you want to have a hard time in overworld content at end game just take your gear off for a while and make yourself some low level weapons.

tunepunk

Turelus wrote: »

Overland I feel is in the right place, sure it's a cake walk when you're legendary gear, C630 optimised builds but that's not what the content was designed or balanced around.

The end game challenge is veteran group content or Maelstrom, that's where the testing is. Sure some of it's old and easy now due to mechanics being known etc.

As I always say if you want to have a hard time in overworld content at end game just take your gear off for a while and make yourself some low level weapons.

It was a cakewalk leveling a new toon from 1-50 as well, with mostly blue and green non-set gear. The problem with the end game content is that you're stuck with doing the same vet dungeons over and over if you want somewhat of a challenge. Once you got most your gear and CP, there should be some form of solo/duo challenge still, so at least you feel it's fun to go chase some achievements, and complete content and quests from other factions that you didn't do yet.

Buying Morrowind and completing all the quests with my main char was no fun at all as you just walk through it without a scratch. Done, no biggie. That's why I'm proposing some kind of Vet mode for all overland content. Not only vet dungeons. I want to keep my gear, my CP and still enjoy new content and areas with my main char.

A vet mode, could give you some penalties, you take more damage, has less resists, less health, weaker damage shields. Basically a reverse battle level. For slightly more XP and maybe a little better drop rate? But at least you would feel it was a bit more of a challenge.

If they don't do something like this, what the point of buying new DLC's like Orsinium and Morrowind and completing them with your main character, if there's no challenge to it? Just walking through it with your gold gear, CP630 char for completist purpose, without a scratch to your armor?

AcadianPaladin

Normal overland content is fine. As a healer, I see plenty of (probably newer) players struggling with normal content like even delves and thunderbug encounters. If you want tougher stuff, there are plenty of places to go for that. As Turelus said, it is also very easy to gimp yourself a bit if you want for normal overland encounters. On the other hand, a player who is very new or perhaps has a disability that affects their game play has very few options to make the game easier except to limit themselves to areas that are less dangerous (like delves and thunderbug encounters).

Septimus_Magna

How will new players learn to create a decent rotation, manage sustain and avoid attacks/mechanics if most quest bosses only have 120k Health at CP160? Even with just 10k dps that only a 12 second fight, this doesnt teach players anything.

tunepunk

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

How will new players learn to create a decent rotation, manage sustain and avoid attacks/mechanics if most quest bosses only have 120k Health at CP160? Even with just 10k dps that only a 12 second fight, this doesnt teach players anything.

^^This ... Rotations and tactics and learning mechanics is useless in PvE. You don't even have to to switch to your back bar before the boss/encounter is dead. Not only that, what's the point to team up and learn to play as a team when nothing is standing more than a few seconds?

Red circles in overland content. Just stay put, it doesn't hurt.
Getting hit by some CC, knockdown etc. just wait it off, or break free, don't even bother blocking or roll dodging.
There's no point learning how to avoid or block damage and CC's

Fighting a dolmen. Just get some ranged weapon and AOE skill because, there's already 20 people hammering away so you're lucky if you get a hit in. When the dolmen boss spawns.. make sure your ultimate or Aoe Dot is ready because the boss will last about 3 seconds, with everyone hammering away.

My back bar in PvE overland content I only use for skills I haven't leveled up yet. Switch to this bar to level them up, when handing in quests for example.

AcadianPaladin

When new players are ready for more challenge, they can try WB, public dungeons and work up from there. There needs to be content for all levels of players. Not everyone is blessed with the attributes to 'get gud'. I know to many players with things ranging from stroke residuals to color blindness and more - not to mention the slower reflexes that come with age. These players perhaps already forgo public dungeons, WB, group dungeons and PvP. Perhaps it is not asking too much that overland travel and normal quest be doable by all levels of skill?

Not everyone embraces the mechanical playstyle of formal rotations and animation canceling either - and those players willingly pay the price by avoiding certain content where that gives a critical edge (like perhaps veteran stuff and PvP).

Though my character can solo a fair number of WB, I really enjoy riding my horse at a walk through overland content, enjoying the beauty and music. I found those tougher overland encounters in Craglorn simply tedious, not enjoyable. If I want a challenging fight, I know where to find one.

I do recognize and agree that normal quest bosses are a problem to get right since they should be doable but challenging to all players. Scaling doesn't really work since two players of the same level often possess extremely differing levels of skill. A difficulty slider chosen by the player might be something to consider.

Apherius

Turelus wrote: »

As I always say if you want to have a hard time in overworld content at end game just take your gear off for a while and make yourself some low level weapons.

nha plz ... this is a way to increase artificially the difficulty ...
Complete a dungeon should be a push through the limit ... we should use everything we have ( gear , rotation ) everything that could help us to complete a dungeon .
But currently the limit is too low , and where is the interest to solo Vicp without gear / cp ? once time it's done ... who care ?
And try hard a content without gear when you have already finished it with gear ... has no interest , why ? Because you can't get this stressful feeling when the final boss have 10% of hp ... this only happens when you try hard and finish a dungeon for the first time . ( this feeling is very difficult to explain , it make the heart beat faster ... this what you feel when Voriak solkyn in Vma have 20% hp ) simply because we can not artificially create this feeling with an artificial difficulty.

theamazingx

Overworld content is designed to be completable by a naked nord with a stick because there are many paying customers who want to do exactly that. More challenging solo content, like vet Maelstrom, would be nice, but they won't make existing questing content difficult in any way. If you feel the content you're doing is too easy, do different stuff. Still plenty of group content that only a fraction of a percent of the playerbase has completed.

tunepunk

theamazingx wrote: »

Overworld content is designed to be completable by a naked nord with a stick because there are many paying customers who want to do exactly that. More challenging solo content, like vet Maelstrom, would be nice, but they won't make existing questing content difficult in any way. If you feel the content you're doing is too easy, do different stuff. Still plenty of group content that only a fraction of a percent of the playerbase has completed.

Why do I need to restrict myself to just a few areas, and repeat them over and over? I enjoy questing and exploration... Vet mode toggle for overland content would solve the problem.. People who like the easy mode can do that. People who like hard mode can do that...

theamazingx

tunepunk wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

Overworld content is designed to be completable by a naked nord with a stick because there are many paying customers who want to do exactly that. More challenging solo content, like vet Maelstrom, would be nice, but they won't make existing questing content difficult in any way. If you feel the content you're doing is too easy, do different stuff. Still plenty of group content that only a fraction of a percent of the playerbase has completed.

Why do I need to restrict myself to just a few areas, and repeat them over and over? I enjoy questing and exploration... Vet mode toggle for overland content would solve the problem.. People who like the easy mode can do that. People who like hard mode can do that...

A few areas? You realize how much group content there is in this game, right? Honestly, unless you're secretly running around with Dromathra Destroyer and Ticktock Tormentor titles, I'm not sure how you've run out of pve challenges to complete. And some vet toggle for overworld would need them to totally rework their instancing and server setup. Its not gonna happen with such low demand.

Turelus

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

How will new players learn to create a decent rotation, manage sustain and avoid attacks/mechanics if most quest bosses only have 120k Health at CP160? Even with just 10k dps that only a 12 second fight, this doesnt teach players anything.

They do it the same way we did via reading about it and testing it in the content it's needed in.

Do we REALLY want to have to have 20k min DPS checks to clear five bugs for a quest?

tunepunk

theamazingx wrote: »

A few areas? You realize how much group content there is in this game, right? Honestly, unless you're secretly running around with Dromathra Destroyer and Ticktock Tormentor titles, I'm not sure how you've run out of pve challenges to complete. And some vet toggle for overworld would need them to totally reword their instancing and server setup. Its not gonna happen with such low demand.

I'm not interested in Trials. I've done a few just to have seen it and done that, but I don't find it enjoyable.
Normal dungeons, did pretty much all of them solo several times (That doesn't have group mechanics)
I'm at the point where I'm doing vet dungeons solo just for the challenge.

Mainly I enjoy questing and exploring and doing a little bit of this and that in overland, public dungeons, solo or with friends, which I think should have a vet/hard mode toggle, and is too easy.

tunepunk

Turelus wrote: »

Do we REALLY want to have to have 20k min DPS checks to clear five bugs for a quest?

That's taking it too far. Trash mobs is trash mobs, but at least make them last a little bit longer, and hurt a little bit more in a vet mode, so you could actually die, if you missed a block or roll dodge.

Azurya

@tunepunk , I am totally with you here, but it is easy for us, for starting players, it is no way easy.
The problem we have is that all should scale to your personal status, but it does not. I don´t know what values they deteminated as reverence, but it is clear, if you reach a certain level, you can almost run through delves, do blackanchors alone and world bosses also, and you do them fast as greased lightning.
And if you are averaged brainuser und doing fine in putting your builds together, then it is even more easy.

The only thing that is left is a trial hardmode, and 3-4 times doing it, you also run through, yeah so what...

Put I see often ppl struggling in the eso-world, doing almost no dmg, wearing just crap, and having almost no cp, they are having a hardtime. So instead of spending much efforts on nerfing sets and abilities, it is perhaps time ZOS looks a bit in the systems they initally choose and do something for starters, like in other MMO´s, starter zones, and perhaps a zone like craglorn once was for more advannced chars.

kylewwefan

Why would you want anything harder? many players are tired of doing normal trials and dungeons but the ramp up to vet is too much. The hard modes are just for the last fight currently. That I think should be changed. Maybe tone down the vet now and make hardmode start at the beginning of Vet dungeons.

Aurie

A choice of difficulty levels would keep most people happy.

AcadianPaladin

Another point that just occurred is that not all players are damage dealers. As hard as the game encourages the worship of dps, there are the minority of us who play healers and tanks.

Happily, many of the same things that make my elf a strong healer also allow her to use healing as self-defense and produce respectable damage. My dear friend, however, who is an Imperial DK tank (and a superb one at that) needs to swap gear and skills via an add on to comfortably solo normal content. In her full tank gear, she is darn near unkillable but with almost no dps.

Though healers and tanks are optimized when in support of others, we do have to do a fair amount of solo stuff to advance.

strikeback1247

Yes make vMA more difficult. The fact that so many people have completed it already shows you that they need to up the difficulty.

/s

Kanar

Overland content is a joke. It makes the quests no fun and there is no reason to group to do regular quests. This comes from catering to the lowest common denominator. This is common in tye current gaming industry and probably comes from sales/marketing, who assume that the game will be more profitable if it's open to the largest possible playerbase. But it's probably detrimental to the long term health of a game like ESO, which relies on people staying in the game and spending money. Sorry, but I don't care if some physically handicapped person can't play the game because it's too "hard." Life's a *** sometimes.

Xvorg

You want a challenge? Go PvP

QuebraRegra

tunepunk wrote: »

For the love of god increase the difficulty!!! There's no sense of danger anywhere, people are forced to solo vet group content just for challenge. Nothing hurts... Make every encounter hard and memorable, even if it's just against 2-3 thunderbugs. My average encounter in overland content is about 1-2 seconds, for a group of enemies. Yes i feel powerful, but it's to the point of being boring.

Or at least add a Vet mode, for ALL content, with a bit more XP, and better drops, where you actually could fail. Unless you're soloing a world boss, nothing barely tickles.

I used to remember getting steamrolled by swarms of bees in craglorn, or one shotted by take aim, if I forgot to block, but i could take them out, if i played right. I want to feel powerful, but I also want to feel that If I mess up or don't use some tactics like block, roll dode, etc I might end up dead.

I just rolled a new char a few weeks ago. Went from lvl 1-50 without a single death, just doing some random quests, and quest lines, and that's with mostly green and blue gear, not even sets. Mostly equipped what i found on the way. Most quest line bosses drop in a few seconds, since there is usually a bunch of other people hammering away as well. I don't block I don't even roll, in any overland content. I rather use break free once in a while, because it's not even hurting to get hit by anything.

When things are so easy to do solo, there's not even any point to team up with a friend to complete stuff, just just walk straight through it. Yesterday I teamed up with a lower level character who wanted to grind some XP together for fun in a public dungeon. And I could notice that he was struggling to get some hits off before the enemies was dead. I had to change tactics so that he start to engage with acid spray or barrage or some other AOE so at least he could get a few hits before they died.

The current difficulty level is not fun, and it doesn't give you any incentive to do things together. I enjoy solo stuff if it's challenging, but i also like to team up maybe duo with someone, but there's no point to team up really.

Please add a difficulty setting or something!

Anyone else feel that overland content is too easy? Or do you experience it being hard enough?

your solution is available... make a new alt, slot NO CP.

Gorilla

[/quote]

your solution is available... make a new alt, slot NO CP.[/quote]


Absolutely this. Also, turn off a lot of the EZ mode options in settings and explore the world with newbie eyes. It's an incredible place. I do trials etc. with my guildies, but started a new account just to do my own thing anonymously. ESO can be a challenging place if you don't have CPs or purple+ gear/sets.

Septimus_Magna

Turelus wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

How will new players learn to create a decent rotation, manage sustain and avoid attacks/mechanics if most quest bosses only have 120k Health at CP160? Even with just 10k dps that only a 12 second fight, this doesnt teach players anything.

They do it the same way we did via reading about it and testing it in the content it's needed in.

Do we REALLY want to have to have 20k min DPS checks to clear five bugs for a quest?

There's something between a 10 second fight and a 20 minute fight. The point is that players will want to complete quests quickly and by giving bosses more health they are motivated to increase their dps. I would like to see quest bosses with something like 500k health. If you want to light attack kill a boss with 500k health it will take a while so players probably stop doing that.

I PUG quite often and 5k dps isnt uncommon for CP160 players, yes for players that role as dps.

raj72616a

have you tried overland bosses? many of them have been buffed and they definitelu dont die in seconds.

and wrothgar world bosses?

gold coast world bosses?

craglorn world bosses?

these zones have significantly harder fights.

vMA?
vDSA?
vWGT vICP vCoS vRoM?
if you only have the base game and cannot access most of these, then how about vDarkshade and vCoA2? are those really too easy that you need to solo them?

tunepunk

raj72616a wrote: »

have you tried overland bosses? many of them have been buffed and they definitelu dont die in seconds.

and wrothgar world bosses?

gold coast world bosses?

craglorn world bosses?

these zones have significantly harder fights.

vMA?
vDSA?
vWGT vICP vCoS vRoM?
if you only have the base game and cannot access most of these, then how about vDarkshade and vCoA2? are those really too easy that you need to solo them?

These are fair challenges yeah, but I'm talking about regular overland content, that needs some kind of vet mode. Doing quests and exploring and and such with a high cp char is a joke, that's why the game needs some kind of vet mode for overland content, so it's a bit of a challenge doing quests, exploration etc.

Quest bosses, and public dungeon bosses go down in a few seconds, groups of trashmobs die in 1-2 seconds. Or on my stamsorc I can even kill a whole group of them in one heavy attack from sneak because of forceful passive.

I know there are some challenges, but my point is, like when they released Morrowind. Doing all the quest lines, and exploring the content there with a cp630 char was no fun at all... you just steamroll through everything.

SydneyGrey

In single player games, you can just change the difficulty level with the push of a button. You can't do that with MMOs.
ZOS can't make the game so difficult for new players that a new player gets into the game, gets killed by everything, then quits forever. The influx of new blood would slow to a crawl. MMOs can't survive without attracting new players. So they have to find a way to balance out the game that gives new players a moderate difficulty level, while still making things more challenging for people who've been here a while. The only thing they can do is to add new, harder content. They can't make the entire game super difficult without making it frustrating for new players.

But yeah, they certainly need to continue to add high-difficulty options for veteran players. We don't want the whole game to be in easy mode, either. The issue is, new players and lesser-skilled players don't think most of it is "easy mode." There has to be a range of difficulties so each zone has a different difficulty level, not just "hard mode" in every zone.

Lord-Otto

Or you could just stop complaining about endgame gear being something to strife for and craft yourself some gree CP140 gear to use for challenge runs.

Just another hollow bragger here who can't think like a true challenge player.

tunepunk

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Or you could just stop complaining about endgame gear being something to strife for and craft yourself some gree CP140 gear to use for challenge runs.

Just another hollow bragger here who can't think like a true challenge player.

It's not bragging. I'm not even near being a top dps player with BiS gear. I'm talking adding a vet mode option to make regular quests and exploration more enjoyable/rewarding with a bit more challenge for high CP characters.

tommalmm

You forget about totally new players. ESO is a little bit centered around solo content, like it or not. Majority of players do play solo, grouping only for the content they cannot do by themselves (like vet dungeons and trials).

It's true, that overland content is easy for 1-50 max cp player, hell, it's even easy for a new toon with NO CP distributed and only picked up random gear (was too lazy last weekend, so I did that on a new stamina nightblade that I was leveling to lv26 for kyne pvp). Note though, that with no CP and no ability to craft a decent gear (and you quite often outlevel the gear that drops before you get a full set), people are getting 5-10dps tops (with 10 being for really experienced players). If you craft yourself a good gear and distribute CP properly, you can easily reach 25k on lv15 character. Most people will actually get like 3k or even less.

The content IS challenging for them.

You just outleveled overland, that's it. I know the pain, when you can just solo world bosses and not even struggle. When you get into delve and the boss dies before you finish your rotation. The thing is that overland content is not really meant for people like you and me. Making it vet would mean splitting player base. Remember cadwell silver and gold in the pre one tamriel times? That is what you would get. Deserted zones, with barely anyone to do the content.

tunepunk

tommalmm wrote: »

You forget about totally new players. ESO is a little bit centered around solo content, like it or not. Majority of players do play solo, grouping only for the content they cannot do by themselves (like vet dungeons and trials).

It's true, that overland content is easy for 1-50 max cp player, hell, it's even easy for a new toon with NO CP distributed and only picked up random gear (was too lazy last weekend, so I did that on a new stamina nightblade that I was leveling to lv26 for kyne pvp). Note though, that with no CP and no ability to craft a decent gear (and you quite often outlevel the gear that drops before you get a full set), people are getting 5-10dps tops (with 10 being for really experienced players). If you craft yourself a good gear and distribute CP properly, you can easily reach 25k on lv15 character. Most people will actually get like 3k or even less.

The content IS challenging for them.

You just outleveled overland, that's it. I know the pain, when you can just solo world bosses and not even struggle. When you get into delve and the boss dies before you finish your rotation. The thing is that overland content is not really meant for people like you and me. Making it vet would mean splitting player base. Remember cadwell silver and gold in the pre one tamriel times? That is what you would get. Deserted zones, with barely anyone to do the content.

I'm not saying everyone should have to do the more challenging Vet mode. Those who wish can still do normal mode overland content.

* Group dungeons have a Normal mode and a Vet Mode - perfect!
* Trials have a normal mode and a Vet Mode - Perfect!
* Maelstorm arena has ha Normal Mode and a vet mode - Perfect!
* Quests and exploration do not have it <- a Vet mode for this is what I'm looking for!

I don't want newbies to struggle more, I want me to struggle more.. I want it to be an option... just like group dungeons, Maelstorm arena etc....

I just leveled a new alt to 50, now I still have 2 factions, several DLC's and expansion that I'm forced to "enjoy" on easy mode, because it doesn't have a vet mode.