PvE Combat is too easy! Please add a Vet mode for overland content.

CromulentForumID

seedubsrun wrote: »

Khumbu wrote: »

I've been playing MMOs for 15 years now and have been through the full lifespan of a couple. Any time players QQ about more hard content tailored to them, and the devs actually listen, it's a disaster. 2/3rds of these "hardcore" people quit, any casuals who bumble into it quit, and everyone cries on the forums. While there ARE a small amount of people who enjoy the challenge and are satisfied, or suck at it but L2P without complaining, this minority of players are almost never worth the total dev time/effort it took to make the content hard in the first place.

If you want a legitimately hard solo MMO overworld experience, go boot up a classic EQ1 server. You just won't find it in this generation of MMOs outside of specialized encounters... this is coming from someone who chased that goal for years before giving up.

Again, seems to have missed what the OP was asking for. Not generally harder content but the option to toggle a harder difficulty. This would give options but not hurt anyone. Also, I'm always hesitant to accept opinions that basically say "It's never worked before so it'll never work in the future". Every game is a bit different and there's a;ways those games that figure out what no one else could. ESO has a choice between normal and vet and even a hard mode vet (for certain things) for everything except overland content. There's already determined values for the differences between normal and vet foes as far as damage dealt, health, resistances, etc. It shouldn't be that big of a stretch to implement this for overland play.

But in this game, everyone is scaled to one point, and the mobs are likewise scaled.

It's also an open-world game, so you can't spawn mobs based on the team/group/person that loads into an instance. You can do that in dungeons, because it is instanced. Unless I am missing something, I can't think of any kind of way that would work in the open game world. I don't think they can supercharge the mob for you while leaving it "normal" for that level 10 who just came over the hill picking flowers.

So, any kind of "hard mode" option would be a debuff to your character, like a poster earlier in the thread mentioned.

Instead of some kind of supported game mode, couldn't you just not assign Champion Points? Doesn't that accomplish the same thing? For ease of use, maybe they could have a "Suppress CP" option so you don't need to pay for resets when you want to do harder content.

Players are unwilling to depower themselves, they want what they earned, but they still complain about difficulty. Is it that much better if a game mode is doing the debuff instead of you personally?

I have talked to people new to the game and they do die a fair amount, or they think the difficulty is just fine. I really don't feel like they're lying to me or are mentally deficient.

In the end, the players who want the overland content more difficult are choosing to not exercise some options they have. It's hard to push for Dev resources to be spent on such a thing.

However, if the devs would not have to spend a ton of time post-implementation, I would think they could do something like have a level 1-4 of additional difficulty. Each different level applies a different version of a "debuff Battle Spirit" to your character. You wouldn't get any additional loot or XP, because then players feel like they are "FORCED" to play on these difficulty levels.

seedubsrun

CromulentForumID wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

Khumbu wrote: »

I've been playing MMOs for 15 years now and have been through the full lifespan of a couple. Any time players QQ about more hard content tailored to them, and the devs actually listen, it's a disaster. 2/3rds of these "hardcore" people quit, any casuals who bumble into it quit, and everyone cries on the forums. While there ARE a small amount of people who enjoy the challenge and are satisfied, or suck at it but L2P without complaining, this minority of players are almost never worth the total dev time/effort it took to make the content hard in the first place.

If you want a legitimately hard solo MMO overworld experience, go boot up a classic EQ1 server. You just won't find it in this generation of MMOs outside of specialized encounters... this is coming from someone who chased that goal for years before giving up.

Again, seems to have missed what the OP was asking for. Not generally harder content but the option to toggle a harder difficulty. This would give options but not hurt anyone. Also, I'm always hesitant to accept opinions that basically say "It's never worked before so it'll never work in the future". Every game is a bit different and there's a;ways those games that figure out what no one else could. ESO has a choice between normal and vet and even a hard mode vet (for certain things) for everything except overland content. There's already determined values for the differences between normal and vet foes as far as damage dealt, health, resistances, etc. It shouldn't be that big of a stretch to implement this for overland play.

But in this game, everyone is scaled to one point, and the mobs are likewise scaled.

It's also an open-world game, so you can't spawn mobs based on the team/group/person that loads into an instance. You can do that in dungeons, because it is instanced. Unless I am missing something, I can't think of any kind of way that would work in the open game world. I don't think they can supercharge the mob for you while leaving it "normal" for that level 10 who just came over the hill picking flowers.

So, any kind of "hard mode" option would be a debuff to your character, like a poster earlier in the thread mentioned.

Instead of some kind of supported game mode, couldn't you just not assign Champion Points? Doesn't that accomplish the same thing? For ease of use, maybe they could have a "Suppress CP" option so you don't need to pay for resets when you want to do harder content.

Players are unwilling to depower themselves, they want what they earned, but they still complain about difficulty. Is it that much better if a game mode is doing the debuff instead of you personally?

I have talked to people new to the game and they do die a fair amount, or they think the difficulty is just fine. I really don't feel like they're lying to me or are mentally deficient.

In the end, the players who want the overland content more difficult are choosing to not exercise some options they have. It's hard to push for Dev resources to be spent on such a thing.

However, if the devs would not have to spend a ton of time post-implementation, I would think they could do something like have a level 1-4 of additional difficulty. Each different level applies a different version of a "debuff Battle Spirit" to your character. You wouldn't get any additional loot or XP, because then players feel like they are "FORCED" to play on these difficulty levels.

Eh, I see what you're saying and the non instanced overworld would be the hardest part about an increase in difficulty but I think if you can be level 4 and scale to CP 160 then there could be a way to take someone at that CP 160 level and have enemies scale to a higher tier. It would probably work like Battle Spirit but wouldn't have to be a debuffed version applied to the player but could just be a buff applied to enemies. Then just make it optional. I get that you can gimp yourself for a higher difficulty. I'd prefer something that's a part of the game though. Something that could have different reward tiers or new achievements. It'll never happen but would improve the game for a lot of people.

fred4

Haven't had time to read everyone's responses, but just want to say I agree with the OP. I remember when Craglorn was fun to solo, because it was harder. Same with Imperial City, even if you could argue that the current difficulty is better suited for PvP. I started playing the game around the time that came out, in the middle of 2015. By the time of Orsinium, in November of that year, I was already so bored with the overland content, I had no desire to complete any of that DLCs quests. I have felt the same about the overland part of all PvE expansions, including Morrowind. I would welcome veteran mode overland content along with some incentive to use it, such as better drop chances on weapons and purple quality jewelry.

Tasear

Turelus wrote: »

Overland I feel is in the right place, sure it's a cake walk when you're legendary gear, C630 optimised builds but that's not what the content was designed or balanced around.

The end game challenge is veteran group content or Maelstrom, that's where the testing is. Sure some of it's old and easy now due to mechanics being known etc.

As I always say if you want to have a hard time in overworld content at end game just take your gear off for a while and make yourself some low level weapons.

tsk tsk this is why we bought the broom and bucket!

fred4

CromulentForumID wrote: »

It's also an open-world game, so you can't spawn mobs based on the team/group/person that loads into an instance. You can do that in dungeons, because it is instanced. Unless I am missing something, I can't think of any kind of way that would work in the open game world.

Overworld IS instanced. You just don't notice it most of the time, since the game tends to group you and your friends together in the same instance. Yes, ZOS would have to make some changes, such as warning you when you are about to enter a veteran instance because you are fast travelling to a friemd, but I'm sure they could come up with something.

CromulentForumID

fred4 wrote: »

CromulentForumID wrote: »

It's also an open-world game, so you can't spawn mobs based on the team/group/person that loads into an instance. You can do that in dungeons, because it is instanced. Unless I am missing something, I can't think of any kind of way that would work in the open game world.

Overworld IS instanced. You just don't notice it most of the time, since the game tends to group you and your friends together in the same instance. Yes, ZOS would have to make some changes, such as warning you when you are about to enter a veteran instance because you are fast travelling to a friemd, but I'm sure they could come up with something.

Thanks for the clarification. I should have been more careful with my wording.

I was more talking about the kind of instance where you are jumping to an area or opening a door and only you and your group members can be inside. That way, they could spawn based off of the group leader's settings, or the quest owner's settings for difficulty.

If you and your group are not alone in the instance, I am not sure how they could separate the difficulties, unless you had some kind of system that amounted to different zones: Normal, Hard, Brutal, etc.. They spent a whole update getting rid of those divisions with 1T, so I'm not sure how keen they would be to put it back.

Chadak

*Puts on CP 100 white gear, no set bonuses. Goes hobnobbing around the world*

Look ma, I created my own challenge!

datgladiatah

Are you guys even reading the thread? Vet overland content made into an OPTION, not forcing bad players to be in more difficult situations. Why can't high level players who don't want to do group content that day enjoy questing with a bit more of a challenge? What's not being understood here?

The problem with Craglorn's old design is it was PvE that FORCED players to group for everything there. Very few builds could play it otherwise. Now it's a high difficulty zone and I think that's great, but it's only one example. Murkmire was supposed to be the same way. I don't want to always be dependent on groups (which is why I dislike trials especially), so why can't I play this game like a TES game sometimes? Wasn't that the intended design? Because the overworld was god awful boring even BEFORE I reached CP level

tunepunk

I don't think it would be that hard to implement. And it should be an option, just as dungeons and trials, have both normal and vet mode. As there already is Veteran content, overland could behave exactly the same rules as any vet dungeon. Sometimes i go solo vet dungeons just for the fun and challenge. The hard thing about vet dungeons is surviving the incoming damage from a bigger number or enemies, and of course mechanics. It's designed for groups so of course will be hard solo. But if those vet dungeon mobs came in groups of 3 like in overland areas they are perfectly doable. I never completed a whole vet dungeon solo, but I made it to the last boss on a few, my last attempt was Vet Tempest island... And it's intense, and fun, but a bit too hard as they are designed for groups.

If overland content followed the same vet rules. Higher resists, more damage etc, so these smaller groups of mobs would be suitable for solo play. Just a little bit harder... with a higher chance of purple gear, and rare drops. Questing, and exploring with high level character would be more fun and rewarding.

idk

Closed instances can have a vet mode but open world needs to be all one setting. Further, it cannot be made to challenging if we want this game to continue. Newer players do not have the experience those of us that have been around for awhile have. Run them off and the game certainly meets an early end.

Those of us that have solid gear and have developed skills playing the game should find the open world much easier. That is life in most modern successful MMOs. change your gear, wear white quality with no set bonus, that will offer you challenge,

If you are wearing your gold, or even purple and especially BiS, set bonus gear then you are most certainly working to make it easier for yourself.

tunepunk

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Closed instances can have a vet mode but open world needs to be all one setting. Further, it cannot be made to challenging if we want this game to continue. Newer players do not have the experience those of us that have been around for awhile have. Run them off and the game certainly meets an early end.

Those of us that have solid gear and have developed skills playing the game should find the open world much easier. That is life in most modern successful MMOs. change your gear, wear white quality with no set bonus, that will offer you challenge,

If you are wearing your gold, or even purple and especially BiS, set bonus gear then you are most certainly working to make it easier for yourself.

Read again please, I said OPTIONAL. And overland is also instanced, but not noticed as it automatic. You are put in the same shard as your group and friends and other random people. The only difference is that they would have to put you in the same shard with other people who chose vet overland.

-"Go make your own challenge", Seriously? Why don't u do normal dungeons in white gear instead of doing vet dungeons then? or do normal trials naked instead of vet, and see how fun that is.

The point is that every time they release a new expansion like morrowind and orsinium all quests and exploration is designed for newbies. You take down a boss in less than 10 seconds, a group of mobs in 2, if you are a high cp player. How fun is that? Sometimes you don't even get to fight the quest boss, because 6 other CP630 Characters is waiting for him so he dies in 2 seconds. You're lucky if you get a shot off...

See the problem now?

Lord-Otto

Well, the answer to why I don't play normal with white gear, but vet with gold gear, is quite simple.

I'm okay with the difficulty. Most people are. And I can always improve my gear, my skills, my CP to make stuff easier. Or don't, to make it more difficult.

YOU are ignoring our point still.
There is an OPTIONAL way to increase difficulty by handicapping yourself. People have been doing this for even the hardest games and it worked.
Putting another option and slider and numbers into the game for five players that simply refuse take matters in their own hands, is a massive waste on resources that could be spent on way more important things.

fred4

I miss Craglorn as it was. There were more mobs there. Some of the bosses, such as Skarath of the Many, that I tested my builds against, are simply gone.

I wouldn't want to gimp myself ... or specifically I wouldn't want to gimp my damage. That would be so boring. What I find exciting, and satisfying, are mobs that are relatively quick to die, but that hit hard (without one shotting), and are dangerous. I think vMA has this fundamentally right. I also prefer content I can use to get a feel for how my (ever changing) builds perform. Of course there are places left where you can do that, but variety is the spice of life.

Were I to purposely gimp myself then, at the very least, I would want to play my characters with two weapon bars used to the full. Anything less would be boring, but I bet you can steamroll overland content naked, and without CP, if you simply know how to play. It's geared towards people who are still learning how to do that.

Pele

I wouldn't mind this as an option for those who want it, but I doubt it'd ever be implemented because we had this before, and it didn't work.

The old vet zones and original Craglorn were exactly like this, and they were empty especially every faction's final vet zones. The mudcrabs could oneshot you - that should give a pretty good idea of the difficulty of all the mobs.

Darkestnght wrote: »

You can always remove all your CP points and put on some un-matched gear or less gear. There are ways to make overland harder other than making a vet version. I run around with no armor sometimes just to make it more difficult.

I don't think that'd work for those who want a hard mode because it doesn't seem like they want hard mode just for the challenge, but they want the challenge while decked out in their CP 160 gear and 630 CP. But that's just my understanding of the OP's ideas, so I could be wrong.

newtinmpls

tunepunk wrote: »

Why do I need to restrict myself to just a few areas, and repeat them over and over? I enjoy questing and exploration... Vet mode toggle for overland content would solve the problem.. People who like the easy mode can do that. People who like hard mode can do that...

Well... you have asked. So far it hasn't happened.

A few people have made suggestions such as use minimal gear or fight naked (wasn't there a guild of Naked Nords?).

You can use these suggestions or not. But doing the same thing over and over again, or just saying that you don't want to do "that" doesn't seem to be bringing you any enjoyment.

so I would say try something you haven't tried yet. Whatever it is.

tunepunk

@Lord-Otto

So what's the point of gimping yourself? There's no greater rewards for doing so! Why do people run dungeons in and other content on vet mode and hard mode? Because of the greater rewards, achievements, highscore, etc. otherwise people wouldn't do it. I'm reluctant to do the rest of the quest with my alts. I have 2 factions and 2 expansions/dlc's to do, in easy mode.

A huge part of the content in the game is quests and exploration, and once you hit CP160, there's usually a ton of content and quests left to do, especially if you're playing an alt already with high CP. And that content is not fun to do at the difficulty level it's at now. You basically just run through it all, and enemies and bosses flying everywhere without a scratch on you.

Questing and exploration is a HUGE part of the game in PvE, so what's the harm in adding a switch in the settings. "Vet mode for overworld"? It's not like they have to redesign anything. Just bump some values.

tunepunk

Pele wrote: »

I don't think that'd work for those who want a hard mode because it doesn't seem like they want hard mode just for the challenge, but they want the challenge while decked out in their CP 160 gear and 630 CP. But that's just my understanding of the OP's ideas, so I could be wrong.

Exactly. a vet mode just like any other dungeon. Where the mobs and bosses last a bit longer that 2 seconds. I'm gonna record a video to show exactly what I mean.

This is not bragging, as i guess this what an average CP630 character encounter is like in overland.

* Exploring overworld, chasing nodes, skyshards etc. Average encounter time is 1-2 seconds for a group of 3 mobs. Many can even be one shotted.

* A troll, Storm atronach, frost atronach, giant, mammoth. Average time to kill one of those is 3-6 seconds.

* Public dungeon regular encounter. A group of enemies of about 5-6 or something. about 3 seconds.

* Delve boss. about 4-8 seconds.

* Public dungeon boss. maybe 8-10 seconds.

And in none of these encounters are I never even close to die, barely scratches my HP.


It doesn't have to be uber hard, but a bit harder. Just like vet mode dungeons, bump up their damage and hp/resists, so at least you get a bit of enjoyment out of fighting them, and there actually was a bit of possibility of dying, if you messed of a few blocks, or roll dodges.

Septimus_Magna

Pele wrote: »

The old vet zones and original Craglorn were exactly like this, and they were empty especially every faction's final vet zones. The mudcrabs could oneshot you - that should give a pretty good idea of the difficulty of all the mobs.

Hahaha, thats not true at all. I did 70% of Craglorn solo when it just got out, even with softcaps it was possible.

The final quest zones were empty because there was nothing to gain, no guild traders, no rare item sets, just a quest line and some v12 mudcrabs. Also the main alliance city was the most crowded because that was the place players sold their stuff by advertising in zone chat. Alts couldnt even port to other alliance area's if they hadnt unlocked cadwell silver or gold.

The vet zones were empty but not because it was too challenging.

mocap

Yeah, Veteran mode for overland delves and public dungeons (indoors only, ofcuz) would be nice, especially for those who continue for Cadwell's Silver/Gold. However, endgame PvE "solo" content still exist:
- Craglorn full solo walkthrough;
- some worldbosses;
- vMA;
- solo level 1 normal group dungeons (2x nice if you have undaunted quests in there);
- achivements hunting;
- ton of repeatable quests in Craglorn;
- maybe something in Morrowind, didn't play this DLC yet;
- repeat ) and/or wait for next DLC

blabliblargh

I'm all for an optional vet overworld mode, but I cannot think of any way to implement it other than a toggle that nerf the player: stats or CP or both. Or buff monsters just for the player. Not sure it would make stuff really harder but it just render combat longer and more tedious.
A real interesting vet overland mode would be if each zone had a version that is more similar to craglorn (for which group content is actually fun and can be challenging to solo). Of course that will never happen because it is incompatible with current overland.
In any case, overland quests being too easy and somewhat boring (not the quests themselves but combat) past a certain level is a real problem. That's a pity given the great world designed and the fact that quests gives a lot of XP for levelling.

Septimus_Magna

Overland is already instanced, thats why you sometimes cannot see group members. Once you teleport to player you're in the same instance and you can see eachother.

You might need to reload the UI to switch between normal and veteran overland but there's no reason why this wouldnt work.

tunepunk

blabliblargh wrote: »

Not sure it would make stuff really harder but it just render combat longer and more tedious.

I never seen people complaining that vet dungeons and trials are tedious compared to normal version. As long as your get rewarded for the extra work in some way. More purple set drops, a bit more XP, a bit more crafting nodes, or something along that line. If you found it tedious you could always switch back to normal. Same as you can chose to do normal dungeons, if you find Veteran group to be too hard.

As long as there is an option, because currently questing, collecting crafting nodes, farming gear, and exploring delves and public dungeons is way to easy for high CP characters. The challenge is one thing, and the increased rewards go hand in hand.

People do vet dungeons instead of normal just because of the increased difficulty or for purple set drops, more pledge keys, achievements etc etc. I wouldn't mind doing a bit harder version of overland content for a bit greater rewards as well.

blabliblargh

tunepunk wrote: »

People do vet dungeons instead of normal just because of the increased difficulty or for purple set drops, more pledge keys, achievements etc etc. I wouldn't mind doing a bit harder version of overland content for a bit greater rewards as well.

Sure, but also group dungeons have bosses with more interesting and varied mechanics than overworld (quest) mobs.

Lord-Otto

tunepunk wrote: »

@Lord-Otto

So what's the point of gimping yourself? There's no greater rewards for doing so! Why do people run dungeons in and other content on vet mode and hard mode? Because of the greater rewards, achievements, highscore, etc. otherwise people wouldn't do it. I'm reluctant to do the rest of the quest with my alts. I have 2 factions and 2 expansions/dlc's to do, in easy mode.

A huge part of the content in the game is quests and exploration, and once you hit CP160, there's usually a ton of content and quests left to do, especially if you're playing an alt already with high CP. And that content is not fun to do at the difficulty level it's at now. You basically just run through it all, and enemies and bosses flying everywhere without a scratch on you.

Questing and exploration is a HUGE part of the game in PvE, so what's the harm in adding a switch in the settings. "Vet mode for overworld"? It's not like they have to redesign anything. Just bump some values.

I still think you're a hypocrite - no personal offense, it's just the most fitting description.

1. If you want greater rewards, vet dungeons, trials and Maelstrom are there. Try to get that BiS Maelstrom or Moondancer weapon, you will have the "pleasure" of doing difficult content overandoverandoverandover. The better you play, the faster and more efficient that farming goes, so there is your endgame reward.

2. Exploration is NOT combat. Have you found M'aiq everywhere? Have you caught all rare fish? Have you read all yellow books? Discovered and understood all the easter eggs? THIS is exploration, and it is unaffected by combat. In fact, having to fight a raid boss every five steps severely diminishes your explorer spirit. I have played Oblivion on the highest difficulty slider - twelve times as much damage taken, a twelth of damage dealt. Exploration becomes tedious. So much that you rush it, focus more on combat, because you MUST. In the end, it kills your throughness, your non-meta build and your immersion. I have experience with that.

3. If you keep that in mind, you see why things are the way they are. You CAN choose exploration or combat. You simply want a mix of those two, and you want it to be brought to you, and you want to show that off - it's hypocritical. You can have rewards, you can have exploration, and you can have "survival mode". You are just not willing to pick it, and that is despicable. If you're not willing to gimp yourself, why should ZOS be willing to program a new mode just for you?

CromulentForumID

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Overland is already instanced, thats why you sometimes cannot see group members. Once you teleport to player you're in the same instance and you can see eachother.

You might need to reload the UI to switch between normal and veteran overland but there's no reason why this wouldnt work.

If you are not alone in the instance, how does the game decide what difficulty to set the mobs at? You have 10 people in the instance, and 5 have "vet" and 5 do not. Are the mobs vet? Normal?

If it's just one group in the instance, you can take the setting from the group leader. As soon as one other person is there, though, what do you do?

seedubsrun

Lord-Otto wrote: »

tunepunk wrote: »

@Lord-Otto

So what's the point of gimping yourself? There's no greater rewards for doing so! Why do people run dungeons in and other content on vet mode and hard mode? Because of the greater rewards, achievements, highscore, etc. otherwise people wouldn't do it. I'm reluctant to do the rest of the quest with my alts. I have 2 factions and 2 expansions/dlc's to do, in easy mode.

A huge part of the content in the game is quests and exploration, and once you hit CP160, there's usually a ton of content and quests left to do, especially if you're playing an alt already with high CP. And that content is not fun to do at the difficulty level it's at now. You basically just run through it all, and enemies and bosses flying everywhere without a scratch on you.

Questing and exploration is a HUGE part of the game in PvE, so what's the harm in adding a switch in the settings. "Vet mode for overworld"? It's not like they have to redesign anything. Just bump some values.

I still think you're a hypocrite - no personal offense, it's just the most fitting description.

1. If you want greater rewards, vet dungeons, trials and Maelstrom are there. Try to get that BiS Maelstrom or Moondancer weapon, you will have the "pleasure" of doing difficult content overandoverandoverandover. The better you play, the faster and more efficient that farming goes, so there is your endgame reward.

2. Exploration is NOT combat. Have you found M'aiq everywhere? Have you caught all rare fish? Have you read all yellow books? Discovered and understood all the easter eggs? THIS is exploration, and it is unaffected by combat. In fact, having to fight a raid boss every five steps severely diminishes your explorer spirit. I have played Oblivion on the highest difficulty slider - twelve times as much damage taken, a twelth of damage dealt. Exploration becomes tedious. So much that you rush it, focus more on combat, because you MUST. In the end, it kills your throughness, your non-meta build and your immersion. I have experience with that.

3. If you keep that in mind, you see why things are the way they are. You CAN choose exploration or combat. You simply want a mix of those two, and you want it to be brought to you, and you want to show that off - it's hypocritical. You can have rewards, you can have exploration, and you can have "survival mode". You are just not willing to pick it, and that is despicable. If you're not willing to gimp yourself, why should ZOS be willing to program a new mode just for you?

Not sure you actually know what a hypocrite is. No worries just google it

1) Your suggestion for harder content is to play the same stale content over and over again while ignoring the purpose of the OPs suggestion which is playing DLC and in game content at a higher difficulty so the content we pay for isn't boring? Nice suggestion.

2) Combat happens during exploration so the two concepts are not mutually exclusive. Also again, having things be harder while aimlessly wandering around isn't the point of the post either. It's the story content and quests that are always boring because they're always easy for an end game player. Sure you can gimp yourself for more difficulty, neato. The question comes down to: Why pay Zos for more content that isn't hard and offers barely to no useful rewards? It shouldn't be the players job to create the difficulty. It's the job of the developers to create content for the player that's fun and engaging. So anyone in this thread that's said it's a waste of the devs time is just wrong. Think of the amount of money the average player gives Zos a year. They have the money. To say having devs make the story content more engaging for end game players is a waste of time and money is ridiculous.

3) Kinda covered already above but to summarize: Very often combat and exploration are the same thing in this game, especially when it comes to questing. You often visit places for the first time during a quest soemtimes you can only go certain places in a quest. No one is saying to just make content harder so we can get purple gear while killing slightly tankier mudcrabs down by the beach. What we're saying is: I paid for Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Orsinium, Morrowind, this game itself, and the quests are extremely easy and can be completed in a few hours for end game players. It takes potentially fun content and makes it less fun. Since there's been a ton of people in this thread that agree with that, it seems maybe that's a problem. One that will only get worse as the CP cap increases.

fred4

CromulentForumID wrote: »

You have 10 people in the instance, and 5 have "vet" and 5 do not.

People would choose whether they want to be in a normal or vet instance, and any one instance would only have vet mode or only normal people in it. What you describe would never be allowed to happen.

fred4

Lord-Otto wrote: »

If you want greater rewards, vet dungeons, trials and Maelstrom are there. Try to get that BiS Maelstrom or Moondancer weapon, you will have the "pleasure" of doing difficult content overandoverandoverandover. The better you play, the faster and more efficient that farming goes, so there is your endgame reward.

There is a huge gap between overland and vMA, or between normal MA and vMA for that matter. I have tried vMA many times, and failed. Some content is TOO hard (for me) and I have no desire to apply myself to it (now and again, I do). It's too much like work. I have a day job, thank you very much. On the other hand most content is way too easy. Then you have the schizophrenic content, like vet Tempest Island, which you can breeze through solo, but the final fight is incredibly hard, and you fail. I fail it solo and with many random PUGs alike.

Yes, there are world bosses that I find entertaining, or there's things like the throne room in Skyreach Catacombs. There used to be more of such content. Some we gained with One Tamriel (world bosses), but some we lost, such as pre-nerf Craglorn, and IC.

Exploration is NOT combat. Have you found M'aiq everywhere? Have you caught all rare fish? Have you read all yellow books? Discovered and understood all the easter eggs? THIS is exploration, and it is unaffected by combat.

That is a totally false statement for how I play the game. I NEED to alternate between somewhat challenging combat and exploration, otherwise I am bored out of my mined. Most NPCs have become incredibly lazy and whiny, in my eyes, because I am so powerful, and they so incompetent. What they consider great battles is such meaningless steamrolling to me, it results in a big disconnect that breaks the immersion.

In fact, having to fight a raid boss every five steps severely diminishes your explorer spirit. I have played Oblivion on the highest difficulty slider - twelve times as much damage taken, a twelth of damage dealt. Exploration becomes tedious.

I totally agree. Oblivion had a terrible, very lazily done scaling system. The same actually happened with One Tamriel, in the lesser dungeons, where some bosses - and I think mobs as well - just got more health, while doing less damage. It's tedious and boring. The combat I favor would feature lowish health and more damage all round. Like vMA, but not as extreme.

Gan Xing

TL didn't read...

This is why they buffed world bosses, so that it would be a challenge/impossible to fight them solo.
Craglorn was this way (b/c it was made for group overland, but they nerfed for solo players like me)

I remember when I first started, as a nightblade, I had to learn mechanics and learn how to fight b/c at the time, even a group of 3 npcs could kill me (I wasn't running food, or potions.... I was also an idiot, and this was back when the game first started)

Gan Xing

kylewwefan wrote: »

Well, after rethinking this a bit. No. Even Overland content is just about perfect IMO. Leveling toons up in all purple training gear, they don't feel overpowered in any way. Even on max level toons it feels about right. I don't feel like there's any real danger, and with legendary gears....I shouldn't IMO.

I do feel some of these world bosses could be toned down a bit though. Trying to farm gear, there's not always large groups to help out. Like any of the world bosses farming Spinners or spriggans are not so easy to solo. They should be more like the Dolmens difficulty level.

I remember when world bosses were solo-able... It was very unsatisfying.... I don't think they should nerf world bosses