PTS 3.1.0. Optimal weapo traits. For pvp and pve?

Blakeabutler_Blasius · July 2017

Speaking of stamSorc, has anyone done any testing with a stamina sorc on PTS yet?

DeHei · July 2017

For PvE precise and infused/precise with lover mundus.

For PvP nirnhoned and infused/nirnhoned or for an oblivion damage/other enchantmentbuild infused/infused

Br1ckst0n · July 2017

I calculated infused to be best for pve (precise for vma weps).

For pvp its probably also the best since enchants kind of function like viper which has been really strong.

Masel · July 2017

Jonno wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Okay so just tested the Shadow mundus stone.

http://imgur.com/fxVhSZu

5 Hunding's, 5 TFS, 2 Kra'gh, vMA Bow, Infused/Precise front bar, Precise back bar, Shadow mundus.

So basically your choices for mundus stones this patch in PvE on Stam NB are: Lover and Shadow.

do a 6m dummy parse plz 3m are worthless

Exactly... Burst dps doesn't say a lot in trials. You have a ~430 difference between regen and drain per second, so that dps is not at all sustainable. Same with other parses presented On foundry and here... That's what I like about @Gilliamtherogue 's parses, he does them on a centurion to show how much you can really get.

If you divide 37000/430, you will be out of stamina after ~86 seconds. People have to start showing the sustainable dps they get...

Izaki · July 2017

Masel92 wrote: »

Jonno wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Okay so just tested the Shadow mundus stone.

http://imgur.com/fxVhSZu

5 Hunding's, 5 TFS, 2 Kra'gh, vMA Bow, Infused/Precise front bar, Precise back bar, Shadow mundus.

So basically your choices for mundus stones this patch in PvE on Stam NB are: Lover and Shadow.

do a 6m dummy parse plz 3m are worthless

Exactly... Burst dps doesn't say a lot in trials. You have a ~430 difference between regen and drain per second, so that dps is not at all sustainable. Same with other parses presented On foundry and here... That's what I like about @Gilliamtherogue 's parses, he does them on a centurion to show how much you can really get.

If you divide 37000/430, you will be out of stamina after ~86 seconds. People have to start showing the sustainable dps they get...

Well isn't the point of a fight and a resource bar to have 0 resources left when you're done fighting? I don't see the point of having a full stamina bar at the end of the fight, so of course I'm going to Drain every single bit of that green *** by the end of a boss fight or a dummy fight.

And like I said in a previous post already, if you want to go ahead and do those 20 tests per each setup that I listed (there were 21 options in total with different traits and mundus) while keeping the other factors (buffs uptimes, number of heavy attacks, etc.) at the exact same values on each parse (otherwise the parses are worthless), please feel free to do so, I'm not going to be bothered to do something like that, especially since the verdict will be the same as on a 3mil dummy. The only difference between the 20 parses I did with each setup (I've done 7 setups in total) is the crit chance, buff uptimes are literally the same. What's the other way of normalizing crits outside of just making a fight longer? You got it: doing several tests. And you can't say that in those 47k and 48k parses the crits were insanely lucky (because they weren't).

And frankly... I don't see how a Centurion is more exact than a 3mil dummy (because its not in the slightest). You're never going to be DPSing for over 10 minutes straight by yourself in a trial. So you may like long parses that show that you can sustain for 11 bloody minutes, but then your rotation isn't the same as your trial rotation. Most fights last 2-5 minutes and during that time you will have group support for your sustain (aka Master Resto, Shards and Orbs). A 6mil dummy fight is basically the same duration as some boss fights, and you expect for the dummy to be an accurate representation of your sustain on a boss fight of the same duration? Well, its not. Because if you do the same rotation as you do on the dummy on a boss, you're going to have too much unused stamina, which is basically wasted DPS.
So your Centurion parses are not a good indicator of your DPS at all, it just means you know how to press your Right Trigger or Left Mouse Button while spamming your skill buttons one by one (because that's all your do for 10 minutes so you must be good at that).
My point is: you're not going to be sustaining a trial boss on your own, you're going to have support and your goal at the end of the boss fight is to have 0 stamina in that green bar anyway.

So please, stop with the "3mil parses are worthless" because that is entirely false. 1 3mil dummy parse may not say much. The average of 20 3mil dummy parses is miles more accurate than 1 Centurion parse or 1 6mil dummy parse for comparing setups.

If you're not happy with my way of testing things, do your own testing and don't tell me how to test ***, I know what I'm doing.

/out

Bobby_V_Rockit · July 2017

So what wins out over the stamina stat buff on Spriggan's Thorns vs. the Crit chance buff on NMG/HR?

Bladerunner1 · July 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

So what wins out over the stamina stat buff on Spriggan's Thorns vs. the Crit chance buff on NMG/HR?

Here are numbers I crunched earlier for the 1-4 set piece bonuses, the buff depends on how much crit and crit damage modifier you already have.

Crit rating: +2.34%
Stamina: +1.47%
Weapon Damage: +2.88%

The buff from weapon damage may be less if your light and heavy attacks account for much less than 20% of your total damage. *Edit* and how many fighters guild abilities you've got slotted on the weapon bar

Spriggan's 5 piece combined buff is dragged down a bit by the Stam buffs, but it's still slightly better overall than Hundings. I'd rather get physical penetration from other sources where the difference in strength is bigger, like lover mundus.

LiquidPony · July 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

Jonno wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Okay so just tested the Shadow mundus stone.

http://imgur.com/fxVhSZu

5 Hunding's, 5 TFS, 2 Kra'gh, vMA Bow, Infused/Precise front bar, Precise back bar, Shadow mundus.

So basically your choices for mundus stones this patch in PvE on Stam NB are: Lover and Shadow.

do a 6m dummy parse plz 3m are worthless

Exactly... Burst dps doesn't say a lot in trials. You have a ~430 difference between regen and drain per second, so that dps is not at all sustainable. Same with other parses presented On foundry and here... That's what I like about @Gilliamtherogue 's parses, he does them on a centurion to show how much you can really get.

If you divide 37000/430, you will be out of stamina after ~86 seconds. People have to start showing the sustainable dps they get...

Well isn't the point of a fight and a resource bar to have 0 resources left when you're done fighting? I don't see the point of having a full stamina bar at the end of the fight, so of course I'm going to Drain every single bit of that green *** by the end of a boss fight or a dummy fight.

And like I said in a previous post already, if you want to go ahead and do those 20 tests per each setup that I listed (there were 21 options in total with different traits and mundus) while keeping the other factors (buffs uptimes, number of heavy attacks, etc.) at the exact same values on each parse (otherwise the parses are worthless), please feel free to do so, I'm not going to be bothered to do something like that, especially since the verdict will be the same as on a 3mil dummy. The only difference between the 20 parses I did with each setup (I've done 7 setups in total) is the crit chance, buff uptimes are literally the same. What's the other way of normalizing crits outside of just making a fight longer? You got it: doing several tests. And you can't say that in those 47k and 48k parses the crits were insanely lucky (because they weren't).

And frankly... I don't see how a Centurion is more exact than a 3mil dummy (because its not in the slightest). You're never going to be DPSing for over 10 minutes straight by yourself in a trial. So you may like long parses that show that you can sustain for 11 bloody minutes, but then your rotation isn't the same as your trial rotation. Most fights last 2-5 minutes and during that time you will have group support for your sustain (aka Master Resto, Shards and Orbs). A 6mil dummy fight is basically the same duration as some boss fights, and you expect for the dummy to be an accurate representation of your sustain on a boss fight of the same duration? Well, its not. Because if you do the same rotation as you do on the dummy on a boss, you're going to have too much unused stamina, which is basically wasted DPS.
So your Centurion parses are not a good indicator of your DPS at all, it just means you know how to press your Right Trigger or Left Mouse Button while spamming your skill buttons one by one (because that's all your do for 10 minutes so you must be good at that).
My point is: you're not going to be sustaining a trial boss on your own, you're going to have support and your goal at the end of the boss fight is to have 0 stamina in that green bar anyway.

So please, stop with the "3mil parses are worthless" because that is entirely false. 1 3mil dummy parse may not say much. The average of 20 3mil dummy parses is miles more accurate than 1 Centurion parse or 1 6mil dummy parse for comparing setups.

If you're not happy with my way of testing things, do your own testing and don't tell me how to test ***, I know what I'm doing.

/out

lol

Totally agreed.

I don't see the point of Gilliam's centurion tests at all. They don't reflect real rotations and they don't give an accurate representation of DPS because of the huge amount of heavy attacking needed to sustain (which messes with uptime on all sorts of things, changes proc rates, etc.).

Now, if someone wants to say that pulling a full raid group together and beating on the big Centurion is a good test: I'll agree with that (or at least, it's an accurate reflection of DPS for static fights like Ra Kotu or the Foundation Stone Atronach). But obviously that's a huge burden to test.

On both my magblade and my stamblade, my 3m dummy rotation is almost identical to my big Centurion rotation with a full raid group (aside from time spent hitting synergies).

Waffennacht · July 2017

Build gets 26k dps on the smaller dummy

Same build gets 15k on the bigger dummy

Clearly the smaller dummy provides inflated numbers

overclocker303b14_ESO · July 2017

Haven't had a chance to compare 1 infused + 1 sharp & sharp back vs 1 infused + 1 precise & precise back on PTS yet but I suspect they will end up being close and both will be viable next patch.

LiquidPony · July 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Build gets 26k dps on the smaller dummy

Same build gets 15k on the bigger dummy

Clearly the smaller dummy provides inflated numbers

That's not clear at all.

I could also say "clearly the larger dummy provides deflated numbers," using the same evidence you've got there.

Izaki · July 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Build gets 26k dps on the smaller dummy

Same build gets 15k on the bigger dummy

Clearly the smaller dummy provides inflated numbers

Strange. The difference in my numbers between the 3mil and the 6mil dummy is 3k at most. My average numbers on the PTS are 46k (3mil) vs 44k (6mil) and on Live are 45k (3mil) vs 43k (6mil).

A difference of 11k in your case means that the problem is on your end: bad rotation, bad timing, bad uptimes, bad sustain, or something else, like sustain issues.

Izaki · July 2017

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

Haven't had a chance to compare 1 infused + 1 sharp & sharp back vs 1 infused + 1 precise & precise back on PTS yet but I suspect they will end up being close and both will be viable next patch.

Precise is better in raids, Sharp is better in solo.

Thogard · July 2017

If you're a skilled PvPer that knows how to animation cancel and has a sufficient ping, it will absolutely be infused.

Ep1kMalware · July 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ConnorWoods wrote: »

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

Not sure I follow that first part ... do I lose Fracture and Berserk on the 6m dummy?

The last sentence is exactly my point, though. The 3m dummy is sufficient to test one thing against another thing in a given build. When you go to the 6m dummy, you have to change your rotation.

Of course, if you have someone throwing shards/bubbles, running Worm, etc., then doing the 6m is fine ... just not really a good reason I can think of to do it solo, since your solo 6m rotation is likely not your actual DPS rotation.

No but self buffing fracture/beserk won't happen in a trial an some of your super good parse will fade into obscurity with raid buffs because everyone will have them. I main a stamplar and 47k isn't hella special when I'm given fracture/combat prayer

Ok, but ... what's your point? Every build has unique advantages that lead to higher parses, most of which are equalized with raid buffs. Your stamplar is getting Minor Fracture via a unique debuff that no other build gets, so who cares?

On a stamblade, you will be self-buffing Major Fracture and Minor Berserk. You'll also be getting those same buffs/debuffs from other sources, but you'll likely have higher uptime on Minor Berserk in many cases (e.g., formations where you aren't always standing in Combat Prayer). And a "super good parse" isn't going to "fade into obscurity." What does that even mean?

No idea what the point of that comment is, honestly. This isn't an e-peen contest. Solo parses are supposed to be about testing rotations, CP, gear, etc., not about cross-build comparisons.

False, dk-warden-nightblade get fracture.

My point is it's hard to test 1 class solo and say 'hey this class is really good' because it's got raid buffs, and running 2 pen sets. Honest to god truth alot of these parses I see (when actually tested with raid buffs) don't do much more than 55k dps.

Then you get classes/setups doing 42-45k without raid buffs that do 70-71k with raid buffs. For the sake of accuracy you need to set them up and compare them like you would in a trial. Stam nb won't run tfs/nmg/sharp weapons in a trial so a 48k test with it isn't so special, because you won't be doing much more than that in a raid. See where I'm getting at?

My best templar parse was actually last patch (homestead), I did 51k and no, it was not raid viable.

Ep1kMalware · July 2017

ConnorWoods wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ConnorWoods wrote: »

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

Not sure I follow that first part ... do I lose Fracture and Berserk on the 6m dummy?

The last sentence is exactly my point, though. The 3m dummy is sufficient to test one thing against another thing in a given build. When you go to the 6m dummy, you have to change your rotation.

Of course, if you have someone throwing shards/bubbles, running Worm, etc., then doing the 6m is fine ... just not really a good reason I can think of to do it solo, since your solo 6m rotation is likely not your actual DPS rotation.

No but self buffing fracture/beserk won't happen in a trial an some of your super good parse will fade into obscurity with raid buffs because everyone will have them. I main a stamplar and 47k isn't hella special when I'm given fracture/combat prayer

You sure? Without Relentless Focus I'm pulling 43.9k on live. Because I'm not using Relentless, I also don't have my biggest "nuke" skill. My highest DPS with Relentless on live is 48.2k (which is about right considering that Minor Berserk gives you less than 8% due to it being additive with CP and Incap's 20% damage bonus and the execute damage bonus). So theoretically, on a stamplar you'd have to be pulling about 44k DPS to get to 48k with Minor Berserk (because they also have a % modifier some of their skills). I haven't seen any stamplar parses at 44k yet... I think highest I've seen was @ConnorWoods with 42.9k.

So Stam NB is higher in single target.

But obviously, although Stam NB is the highest in single target, it barely has any AoE contrary to Stamplar or Stam Sorc. Which is why it all evens out in the end.

44K with only Major Fracture on Stamplar -Might- be doable if you absolutely cheese it, I did the 42.9k with Velidreth so obviously with Kr'agh and more into piercing so I cap the 3m with Fracture then I think it might be doable. However obviously this is complete cheese and I don't recommend it.

It's not a cheese, it's knowing the class. I don't use velidreth in raids, I use kragh and got 39 into piercing, and run precise weapons putting me st 84% crit. Next patch I'm hoping to be a little over 100% crit and run shadow mundus. And I'll do it even if I have to break my own rule and use a khajiit.

I don't do 'dummy' builds, the only buff I allow for solo tests is mfracture, which is what I was hitting 42k with (lower than last patch). All my other skills were sustain/utility/dps skills I'd bring into a raid. Things like rune focus/vigor/etc.

I did do a cheese run for funsies (everyone else does it, so why not) and I hit much more than 42k. I set all my gear/cp keeping in mind I want to hit 18.2-19k pen, factoring in various buffs I'd get in a raid and what their uptime would be. I run kraghs/piercing because I do not use sharpened weapons in veteran trials.

Izaki · July 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ConnorWoods wrote: »

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

Not sure I follow that first part ... do I lose Fracture and Berserk on the 6m dummy?

The last sentence is exactly my point, though. The 3m dummy is sufficient to test one thing against another thing in a given build. When you go to the 6m dummy, you have to change your rotation.

Of course, if you have someone throwing shards/bubbles, running Worm, etc., then doing the 6m is fine ... just not really a good reason I can think of to do it solo, since your solo 6m rotation is likely not your actual DPS rotation.

No but self buffing fracture/beserk won't happen in a trial an some of your super good parse will fade into obscurity with raid buffs because everyone will have them. I main a stamplar and 47k isn't hella special when I'm given fracture/combat prayer

Ok, but ... what's your point? Every build has unique advantages that lead to higher parses, most of which are equalized with raid buffs. Your stamplar is getting Minor Fracture via a unique debuff that no other build gets, so who cares?

On a stamblade, you will be self-buffing Major Fracture and Minor Berserk. You'll also be getting those same buffs/debuffs from other sources, but you'll likely have higher uptime on Minor Berserk in many cases (e.g., formations where you aren't always standing in Combat Prayer). And a "super good parse" isn't going to "fade into obscurity." What does that even mean?

No idea what the point of that comment is, honestly. This isn't an e-peen contest. Solo parses are supposed to be about testing rotations, CP, gear, etc., not about cross-build comparisons.

False, dk-warden-nightblade get fracture.

My point is it's hard to test 1 class solo and say 'hey this class is really good' because it's got raid buffs, and running 2 pen sets. Honest to god truth alot of these parses I see (when actually tested with raid buffs) don't do much more than 55k dps.

Then you get classes/setups doing 42-45k without raid buffs that do 70-71k with raid buffs. For the sake of accuracy you need to set them up and compare them like you would in a trial. Stam nb won't run tfs/nmg/sharp weapons in a trial so a 48k test with it isn't so special, because you won't be doing much more than that in a raid. See where I'm getting at?

My best templar parse was actually last patch (homestead), I did 51k and no, it was not raid viable.

First, I never said I use NMG or Sharpened or the Lover on the PTS, because I use neither of those.
Second, if you're saying that I'm using a build specifically made for the dummy, then you're very very wrong.
Third, a stamblade in a raid buffed test will still do more DPS than a stamplar in the same test. They just have higher single target damage.

Ep1kMalware · July 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ConnorWoods wrote: »

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

Not sure I follow that first part ... do I lose Fracture and Berserk on the 6m dummy?

The last sentence is exactly my point, though. The 3m dummy is sufficient to test one thing against another thing in a given build. When you go to the 6m dummy, you have to change your rotation.

Of course, if you have someone throwing shards/bubbles, running Worm, etc., then doing the 6m is fine ... just not really a good reason I can think of to do it solo, since your solo 6m rotation is likely not your actual DPS rotation.

No but self buffing fracture/beserk won't happen in a trial an some of your super good parse will fade into obscurity with raid buffs because everyone will have them. I main a stamplar and 47k isn't hella special when I'm given fracture/combat prayer

Ok, but ... what's your point? Every build has unique advantages that lead to higher parses, most of which are equalized with raid buffs. Your stamplar is getting Minor Fracture via a unique debuff that no other build gets, so who cares?

On a stamblade, you will be self-buffing Major Fracture and Minor Berserk. You'll also be getting those same buffs/debuffs from other sources, but you'll likely have higher uptime on Minor Berserk in many cases (e.g., formations where you aren't always standing in Combat Prayer). And a "super good parse" isn't going to "fade into obscurity." What does that even mean?

No idea what the point of that comment is, honestly. This isn't an e-peen contest. Solo parses are supposed to be about testing rotations, CP, gear, etc., not about cross-build comparisons.

False, dk-warden-nightblade get fracture.

My point is it's hard to test 1 class solo and say 'hey this class is really good' because it's got raid buffs, and running 2 pen sets. Honest to god truth alot of these parses I see (when actually tested with raid buffs) don't do much more than 55k dps.

Then you get classes/setups doing 42-45k without raid buffs that do 70-71k with raid buffs. For the sake of accuracy you need to set them up and compare them like you would in a trial. Stam nb won't run tfs/nmg/sharp weapons in a trial so a 48k test with it isn't so special, because you won't be doing much more than that in a raid. See where I'm getting at?

My best templar parse was actually last patch (homestead), I did 51k and no, it was not raid viable.

First, I never said I use NMG or Sharpened or the Lover on the PTS, because I use neither of those.
Second, if you're saying that I'm using a build specifically made for the dummy, then you're very very wrong.
Third, a stamblade in a raid buffed test will still do more DPS than a stamplar in the same test. They just have higher single target damage.

LOL.

I'm walking away. I'm walking away, >.< lmao I tried to explain it to you. Walking away..

(I've pulled 72k raid buffed)

Edit: ^usually about 66k, idk if its a console thing but I tend to get a mini screen freeze when warhorn pops.

Izaki · July 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ConnorWoods wrote: »

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

Not sure I follow that first part ... do I lose Fracture and Berserk on the 6m dummy?

The last sentence is exactly my point, though. The 3m dummy is sufficient to test one thing against another thing in a given build. When you go to the 6m dummy, you have to change your rotation.

Of course, if you have someone throwing shards/bubbles, running Worm, etc., then doing the 6m is fine ... just not really a good reason I can think of to do it solo, since your solo 6m rotation is likely not your actual DPS rotation.

No but self buffing fracture/beserk won't happen in a trial an some of your super good parse will fade into obscurity with raid buffs because everyone will have them. I main a stamplar and 47k isn't hella special when I'm given fracture/combat prayer

Ok, but ... what's your point? Every build has unique advantages that lead to higher parses, most of which are equalized with raid buffs. Your stamplar is getting Minor Fracture via a unique debuff that no other build gets, so who cares?

On a stamblade, you will be self-buffing Major Fracture and Minor Berserk. You'll also be getting those same buffs/debuffs from other sources, but you'll likely have higher uptime on Minor Berserk in many cases (e.g., formations where you aren't always standing in Combat Prayer). And a "super good parse" isn't going to "fade into obscurity." What does that even mean?

No idea what the point of that comment is, honestly. This isn't an e-peen contest. Solo parses are supposed to be about testing rotations, CP, gear, etc., not about cross-build comparisons.

False, dk-warden-nightblade get fracture.

My point is it's hard to test 1 class solo and say 'hey this class is really good' because it's got raid buffs, and running 2 pen sets. Honest to god truth alot of these parses I see (when actually tested with raid buffs) don't do much more than 55k dps.

Then you get classes/setups doing 42-45k without raid buffs that do 70-71k with raid buffs. For the sake of accuracy you need to set them up and compare them like you would in a trial. Stam nb won't run tfs/nmg/sharp weapons in a trial so a 48k test with it isn't so special, because you won't be doing much more than that in a raid. See where I'm getting at?

My best templar parse was actually last patch (homestead), I did 51k and no, it was not raid viable.

First, I never said I use NMG or Sharpened or the Lover on the PTS, because I use neither of those.
Second, if you're saying that I'm using a build specifically made for the dummy, then you're very very wrong.
Third, a stamblade in a raid buffed test will still do more DPS than a stamplar in the same test. They just have higher single target damage.

LOL.

I'm walking away. I'm walking away, >.< lmao I tried to explain it to you. Walking away..

(I've pulled 72k raid buffed)

Edit: ^usually about 66k, idk if its a console thing but I tend to get a mini screen freeze when warhorn pops.

Good for you. Except that in an actual raid you're never going to have 100% Major Force uptime or 100% Combat Prayer uptime. A Stamblade doesn't need Combat Prayer to still get 100% Minor Berserk uptime. That's where the DPS matters - in a raid. So those group centurion tests are pretty cool, but they are also pretty useless because they simulate a very unlikely environment, and they are truely no good for comparing one setup with another. Its okay for class comparisons I guess, so if you want it that bad, I'll do one of them for you.

I still don't get the point of your so called "explanation" mate. Because even without Minor Berserk, just with Fracture, I've been able to hit over 45k on the PTS. So that's without Relentless Focus, which is also one of my strongest DPS abilities.

Ep1kMalware · July 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ConnorWoods wrote: »

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

Not sure I follow that first part ... do I lose Fracture and Berserk on the 6m dummy?

The last sentence is exactly my point, though. The 3m dummy is sufficient to test one thing against another thing in a given build. When you go to the 6m dummy, you have to change your rotation.

Of course, if you have someone throwing shards/bubbles, running Worm, etc., then doing the 6m is fine ... just not really a good reason I can think of to do it solo, since your solo 6m rotation is likely not your actual DPS rotation.

No but self buffing fracture/beserk won't happen in a trial an some of your super good parse will fade into obscurity with raid buffs because everyone will have them. I main a stamplar and 47k isn't hella special when I'm given fracture/combat prayer

Ok, but ... what's your point? Every build has unique advantages that lead to higher parses, most of which are equalized with raid buffs. Your stamplar is getting Minor Fracture via a unique debuff that no other build gets, so who cares?

On a stamblade, you will be self-buffing Major Fracture and Minor Berserk. You'll also be getting those same buffs/debuffs from other sources, but you'll likely have higher uptime on Minor Berserk in many cases (e.g., formations where you aren't always standing in Combat Prayer). And a "super good parse" isn't going to "fade into obscurity." What does that even mean?

No idea what the point of that comment is, honestly. This isn't an e-peen contest. Solo parses are supposed to be about testing rotations, CP, gear, etc., not about cross-build comparisons.

False, dk-warden-nightblade get fracture.

My point is it's hard to test 1 class solo and say 'hey this class is really good' because it's got raid buffs, and running 2 pen sets. Honest to god truth alot of these parses I see (when actually tested with raid buffs) don't do much more than 55k dps.

Then you get classes/setups doing 42-45k without raid buffs that do 70-71k with raid buffs. For the sake of accuracy you need to set them up and compare them like you would in a trial. Stam nb won't run tfs/nmg/sharp weapons in a trial so a 48k test with it isn't so special, because you won't be doing much more than that in a raid. See where I'm getting at?

My best templar parse was actually last patch (homestead), I did 51k and no, it was not raid viable.

First, I never said I use NMG or Sharpened or the Lover on the PTS, because I use neither of those.
Second, if you're saying that I'm using a build specifically made for the dummy, then you're very very wrong.
Third, a stamblade in a raid buffed test will still do more DPS than a stamplar in the same test. They just have higher single target damage.

LOL.

I'm walking away. I'm walking away, >.< lmao I tried to explain it to you. Walking away..

(I've pulled 72k raid buffed)

Edit: ^usually about 66k, idk if its a console thing but I tend to get a mini screen freeze when warhorn pops.

Good for you. Except that in an actual raid you're never going to have 100% Major Force uptime or 100% Combat Prayer uptime. A Stamblade doesn't need Combat Prayer to still get 100% Minor Berserk uptime. That's where the DPS matters - in a raid. So those group centurion tests are pretty cool, but they are also pretty useless because they simulate a very unlikely environment, and they are truely no good for comparing one setup with another. Its okay for class comparisons I guess, so if you want it that bad, I'll do one of them for you.

I still don't get the point of your so called "explanation" mate. Because even without Minor Berserk, just with Fracture, I've been able to hit over 45k on the PTS. So that's without Relentless Focus, which is also one of my strongest DPS abilities.

For solo dps. In no way is that an accurate measurement of dps in a raid. It's a measurement of how long you can sit infront of a dummy with a pocket full of self buffs on a build that probably viable for nuking bosses in a normal dungeon provided the lvl 20 wardens sit still. My point is I build according to the content i'll be running. You might hit lower in a dummy test but way higher in a raid. You're building backwards.

Bobby_V_Rockit · July 2017

Stam Sorc, new DW best traits and sets, NMG+VO, nirnhoned + precise daggers. Got it

Izaki · July 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ConnorWoods wrote: »

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

Not sure I follow that first part ... do I lose Fracture and Berserk on the 6m dummy?

The last sentence is exactly my point, though. The 3m dummy is sufficient to test one thing against another thing in a given build. When you go to the 6m dummy, you have to change your rotation.

Of course, if you have someone throwing shards/bubbles, running Worm, etc., then doing the 6m is fine ... just not really a good reason I can think of to do it solo, since your solo 6m rotation is likely not your actual DPS rotation.

No but self buffing fracture/beserk won't happen in a trial an some of your super good parse will fade into obscurity with raid buffs because everyone will have them. I main a stamplar and 47k isn't hella special when I'm given fracture/combat prayer

Ok, but ... what's your point? Every build has unique advantages that lead to higher parses, most of which are equalized with raid buffs. Your stamplar is getting Minor Fracture via a unique debuff that no other build gets, so who cares?

On a stamblade, you will be self-buffing Major Fracture and Minor Berserk. You'll also be getting those same buffs/debuffs from other sources, but you'll likely have higher uptime on Minor Berserk in many cases (e.g., formations where you aren't always standing in Combat Prayer). And a "super good parse" isn't going to "fade into obscurity." What does that even mean?

No idea what the point of that comment is, honestly. This isn't an e-peen contest. Solo parses are supposed to be about testing rotations, CP, gear, etc., not about cross-build comparisons.

False, dk-warden-nightblade get fracture.

My point is it's hard to test 1 class solo and say 'hey this class is really good' because it's got raid buffs, and running 2 pen sets. Honest to god truth alot of these parses I see (when actually tested with raid buffs) don't do much more than 55k dps.

Then you get classes/setups doing 42-45k without raid buffs that do 70-71k with raid buffs. For the sake of accuracy you need to set them up and compare them like you would in a trial. Stam nb won't run tfs/nmg/sharp weapons in a trial so a 48k test with it isn't so special, because you won't be doing much more than that in a raid. See where I'm getting at?

My best templar parse was actually last patch (homestead), I did 51k and no, it was not raid viable.

First, I never said I use NMG or Sharpened or the Lover on the PTS, because I use neither of those.
Second, if you're saying that I'm using a build specifically made for the dummy, then you're very very wrong.
Third, a stamblade in a raid buffed test will still do more DPS than a stamplar in the same test. They just have higher single target damage.

LOL.

I'm walking away. I'm walking away, >.< lmao I tried to explain it to you. Walking away..

(I've pulled 72k raid buffed)

Edit: ^usually about 66k, idk if its a console thing but I tend to get a mini screen freeze when warhorn pops.

Good for you. Except that in an actual raid you're never going to have 100% Major Force uptime or 100% Combat Prayer uptime. A Stamblade doesn't need Combat Prayer to still get 100% Minor Berserk uptime. That's where the DPS matters - in a raid. So those group centurion tests are pretty cool, but they are also pretty useless because they simulate a very unlikely environment, and they are truely no good for comparing one setup with another. Its okay for class comparisons I guess, so if you want it that bad, I'll do one of them for you.

I still don't get the point of your so called "explanation" mate. Because even without Minor Berserk, just with Fracture, I've been able to hit over 45k on the PTS. So that's without Relentless Focus, which is also one of my strongest DPS abilities.

For solo dps. In no way is that an accurate measurement of dps in a raid. It's a measurement of how long you can sit infront of a dummy with a pocket full of self buffs on a build that probably viable for nuking bosses in a normal dungeon provided the lvl 20 wardens sit still. My point is I build according to the content i'll be running. You might hit lower in a dummy test but way higher in a raid. You're building backwards.

You're on console. How would you know if you hit higher or lower in a raid? It seems to me that you don't and that you only speculate. "Stam nb won't run tfs/nmg/sharp weapons in a trial" this sentence of yours truly made me laugh. Stamina builds don't get much support unless you have more than 2 in the group, which enables you to run NMG and Sunderflame, thus dropping TFS. However, its pretty rare to have more than 2 stamina DPS in a raid group these days, because after all, they are squishier than magicka builds. So TFS is basically the strongest DPS set out there right now if you have up to 2 stamina DPS in your raid. Once that's in your kit, you build around it depending on your group. Right now penetration is the easiest and the most efficient stat to build for. If you do decide to run NMG with only 2 stamina DDs in the group, you both could switch to Infused main hand with a Poison glyph (which is much higher DPS than Precise by the way, which is what you said you were running). Sharpened off-hand and back bar isn't even a subject of discussion in Morrowind and the Thief mundus stone is a staple also. I build depending on my group composition, which never changes, that means that the only adjustments to my setup that I'm doing are depending on the raid itself.

In Horns of the Reach, the main hand weapon is always Infused with a Poison glyph and the off-hand is Precise as well as the back bar in group situations. Shadow mundus.

Kra'gh isn't optimal in trials for 1 reason only: the hitbox is a mess. Due to this, most of the time your Kra'gh isn't even hitting the boss because of its weird targeting system, you could be right in the face of the boss and your Kra'gh proc would still miss from time to time. In a mobile fight? Forget about Kra'gh entirely. How can you tell me that you build optimally for raids if you're running Kra'gh? Velidreth is stronger in terms of cleave and is much more reliable, which makes it an instantly superior choice. The 1st piece bonus is weaker, yes, but putting 29 points into penetration isn't a big deal with the front loaded CP, especially on a stamplar.

So the only reason why I told you that I was parsing over 45k without Relentless Focus is to show you that what you were saying about classes that hit 42-45k will hit 70k+ raid buffed also applies to Stamblade, except that they also get the additional DPS from an insanely strong nuke skill that is Relentless Focus. And adding on to that, Stamblades will always have higher Minor Berserk uptimes than other classes, so although the buff is redundant, its still beneficial. So your whole "parse fading into obscurity" thing is a load of crap. Being able to self buff things doesn't mean that you'll be doing less DPS in a raid. Just so you know: in my 48k parses (I have a load of them now) my Major Fracture uptime is only around 70-80%. Do you want me to list all the other buffs that I didn't have but that I do have in a raid? Spell Power Cure, NMG, Minor Fracture, Minor Vulnerability, Off-Balance, War Horn stats buff, Major Force, Minor Brutality and Major Slayer. I think there's still room to be buffed all the way up to 70k+ with all of that. And I'll repeat myself: group centurion tests are just as useless as solo DPS tests in terms of analyzing your actual raid DPS.

Don't tell me how to build for trials when you clearly aren't up to date on most of the stuff yourself. Oh and by the way: I play stamplar too.

Izaki · July 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Stam Sorc, new DW best traits and sets, NMG+VO, nirnhoned + precise daggers. Got it

Erm no, not at all.

Infused main hand is a must have. Precise or Sharpened off-hand depending on whether you're group or solo respectively. Back bar trait is the same as your off-hand trait. Lover mundus stone for solo situations and Shadow for group situations. Nirnhoned is still 4th best.

The sets depend on what you're doing. NMG + VO works great in Overland and vMA content where resistances are lower than standard. TFS is still the strongest set you can get, even more so with Horns of the Reach, its the highest available penetration value you can get with items: more than Sharpened and the Lover. Then as far as the 2nd 5 piece set goes, it really all depends on what you have or what your group requires: NMG/VO/Hunding's/War Machine/Automaton. The monster set is as usual Selene, Kra'gh, Velidreth (and Stormfist even). The new monster mask also looks interesting, but very tricky to use.

Bobby_V_Rockit · July 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Stam Sorc, new DW best traits and sets, NMG+VO, nirnhoned + precise daggers. Got it

Erm no, not at all. Infused main hand is a must have. Precise or Sharpened off-hand depending on whether you're group or solo respectively. Back bar trait is the same as your off-hand trait. Lover mundus stone for solo situations and Shadow for group situations. Nirnhoned is still 4th best.

The sets depend on what you're doing. NMG + VO works great in Overland and vMA content where resistances are lower than standard. TFS is still the strongest set you can get, even more so with Horns of the Reach, its the highest available penetration value you can get with items: more than Sharpened and the Lover. Then as far as the 2nd 5 piece set goes, it really all depends on what you have or what your group requires: NMG/VO/Hunding's/War Machine/Automaton. The monster set is as usual Selene, Kra'gh, Velidreth (and Stormfist even). The new monster mask also looks interesting, but very tricky to use.

So Spriggan's Thorns + VO for those of us lacking in the RNG department for TFS then I imagine. Shame, I was really hoping crafted sets would be viable.

Izaki · July 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Stam Sorc, new DW best traits and sets, NMG+VO, nirnhoned + precise daggers. Got it

Erm no, not at all. Infused main hand is a must have. Precise or Sharpened off-hand depending on whether you're group or solo respectively. Back bar trait is the same as your off-hand trait. Lover mundus stone for solo situations and Shadow for group situations. Nirnhoned is still 4th best.

The sets depend on what you're doing. NMG + VO works great in Overland and vMA content where resistances are lower than standard. TFS is still the strongest set you can get, even more so with Horns of the Reach, its the highest available penetration value you can get with items: more than Sharpened and the Lover. Then as far as the 2nd 5 piece set goes, it really all depends on what you have or what your group requires: NMG/VO/Hunding's/War Machine/Automaton. The monster set is as usual Selene, Kra'gh, Velidreth (and Stormfist even). The new monster mask also looks interesting, but very tricky to use.

So Spriggan's Thorns + VO for those of us lacking in the RNG department for TFS then I imagine. Shame, I was really hoping crafted sets would be viable.

Hmm... What sort of content is this for?

I mean Spriggan's is good, but I'm sure that we can find a better option than that.
Now something I'd suggest would be losing VO entirely for something else, unless of course, you're doing vMA.

Do trust me on the Nirnhoned however, its really not worth the gold mats. Infused/Precise or Infused/Sharp are much better options

Ep1kMalware · July 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ConnorWoods wrote: »

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

Not sure I follow that first part ... do I lose Fracture and Berserk on the 6m dummy?

The last sentence is exactly my point, though. The 3m dummy is sufficient to test one thing against another thing in a given build. When you go to the 6m dummy, you have to change your rotation.

Of course, if you have someone throwing shards/bubbles, running Worm, etc., then doing the 6m is fine ... just not really a good reason I can think of to do it solo, since your solo 6m rotation is likely not your actual DPS rotation.

No but self buffing fracture/beserk won't happen in a trial an some of your super good parse will fade into obscurity with raid buffs because everyone will have them. I main a stamplar and 47k isn't hella special when I'm given fracture/combat prayer

Ok, but ... what's your point? Every build has unique advantages that lead to higher parses, most of which are equalized with raid buffs. Your stamplar is getting Minor Fracture via a unique debuff that no other build gets, so who cares?

On a stamblade, you will be self-buffing Major Fracture and Minor Berserk. You'll also be getting those same buffs/debuffs from other sources, but you'll likely have higher uptime on Minor Berserk in many cases (e.g., formations where you aren't always standing in Combat Prayer). And a "super good parse" isn't going to "fade into obscurity." What does that even mean?

No idea what the point of that comment is, honestly. This isn't an e-peen contest. Solo parses are supposed to be about testing rotations, CP, gear, etc., not about cross-build comparisons.

False, dk-warden-nightblade get fracture.

My point is it's hard to test 1 class solo and say 'hey this class is really good' because it's got raid buffs, and running 2 pen sets. Honest to god truth alot of these parses I see (when actually tested with raid buffs) don't do much more than 55k dps.

Then you get classes/setups doing 42-45k without raid buffs that do 70-71k with raid buffs. For the sake of accuracy you need to set them up and compare them like you would in a trial. Stam nb won't run tfs/nmg/sharp weapons in a trial so a 48k test with it isn't so special, because you won't be doing much more than that in a raid. See where I'm getting at?

My best templar parse was actually last patch (homestead), I did 51k and no, it was not raid viable.

First, I never said I use NMG or Sharpened or the Lover on the PTS, because I use neither of those.
Second, if you're saying that I'm using a build specifically made for the dummy, then you're very very wrong.
Third, a stamblade in a raid buffed test will still do more DPS than a stamplar in the same test. They just have higher single target damage.

LOL.

I'm walking away. I'm walking away, >.< lmao I tried to explain it to you. Walking away..

(I've pulled 72k raid buffed)

Edit: ^usually about 66k, idk if its a console thing but I tend to get a mini screen freeze when warhorn pops.

Good for you. Except that in an actual raid you're never going to have 100% Major Force uptime or 100% Combat Prayer uptime. A Stamblade doesn't need Combat Prayer to still get 100% Minor Berserk uptime. That's where the DPS matters - in a raid. So those group centurion tests are pretty cool, but they are also pretty useless because they simulate a very unlikely environment, and they are truely no good for comparing one setup with another. Its okay for class comparisons I guess, so if you want it that bad, I'll do one of them for you.

I still don't get the point of your so called "explanation" mate. Because even without Minor Berserk, just with Fracture, I've been able to hit over 45k on the PTS. So that's without Relentless Focus, which is also one of my strongest DPS abilities.

For solo dps. In no way is that an accurate measurement of dps in a raid. It's a measurement of how long you can sit infront of a dummy with a pocket full of self buffs on a build that probably viable for nuking bosses in a normal dungeon provided the lvl 20 wardens sit still. My point is I build according to the content i'll be running. You might hit lower in a dummy test but way higher in a raid. You're building backwards.

You're on console. How would you know if you hit higher or lower in a raid? It seems to me that you don't and that you only speculate. "Stam nb won't run tfs/nmg/sharp weapons in a trial" this sentence of yours truly made me laugh. Stamina builds don't get much support unless you have more than 2 in the group, which enables you to run NMG and Sunderflame, thus dropping TFS. However, its pretty rare to have more than 2 stamina DPS in a raid group these days, because after all, they are squishier than magicka builds. So TFS is basically the strongest DPS set out there right now if you have up to 2 stamina DPS in your raid. Once that's in your kit, you build around it depending on your group. Right now penetration is the easiest and the most efficient stat to build for. If you do decide to run NMG with only 2 stamina DDs in the group, you both could switch to Infused main hand with a Poison glyph (which is much higher DPS than Precise by the way, which is what you said you were running). Sharpened off-hand and back bar isn't even a subject of discussion in Morrowind and the Thief mundus stone is a staple also. I build depending on my group composition, which never changes, that means that the only adjustments to my setup that I'm doing are depending on the raid itself.

In Horns of the Reach, the main hand weapon is always Infused with a Poison glyph and the off-hand is Precise as well as the back bar in group situations. Shadow mundus.

Kra'gh isn't optimal in trials for 1 reason only: the hitbox is a mess. Due to this, most of the time your Kra'gh isn't even hitting the boss because of its weird targeting system, you could be right in the face of the boss and your Kra'gh proc would still miss from time to time. In a mobile fight? Forget about Kra'gh entirely. How can you tell me that you build optimally for raids if you're running Kra'gh? Velidreth is stronger in terms of cleave and is much more reliable, which makes it an instantly superior choice. The 1st piece bonus is weaker, yes, but putting 29 points into penetration isn't a big deal with the front loaded CP, especially on a stamplar.

So the only reason why I told you that I was parsing over 45k without Relentless Focus is to show you that what you were saying about classes that hit 42-45k will hit 70k+ raid buffed also applies to Stamblade, except that they also get the additional DPS from an insanely strong nuke skill that is Relentless Focus. And adding on to that, Stamblades will always have higher Minor Berserk uptimes than other classes, so although the buff is redundant, its still beneficial. So your whole "parse fading into obscurity" thing is a load of crap. Being able to self buff things doesn't mean that you'll be doing less DPS in a raid. Just so you know: in my 48k parses (I have a load of them now) my Major Fracture uptime is only around 70-80%. Do you want me to list all the other buffs that I didn't have but that I do have in a raid? Spell Power Cure, NMG, Minor Fracture, Minor Vulnerability, Off-Balance, War Horn stats buff, Major Force, Minor Brutality and Major Slayer. I think there's still room to be buffed all the way up to 70k+ with all of that. And I'll repeat myself: group centurion tests are just as useless as solo DPS tests in terms of analyzing your actual raid DPS.

Don't tell me how to build for trials when you clearly aren't up to date on most of the stuff yourself. Oh and by the way: I play stamplar too.

I can see what my raid damage is by having some friends come help me hit 3, 6m dummies with raid buffs. By your post I can see you've clearly got no idea what you're talking about. Velidreth is garbage unless you're playing a *** nightblade, and pen is so easy to stack you have to reduce what you're wearing before going into a trial. Hence, you probably won't run 2 pen sets. Back to velidreth, I don't need it to do crappy low maybe it will hit maybe it wont damage. I'd rather give an overall damage boost to my aoe/crit. Esp in trash fights as that may likely be what slows you down in a score run. Sure, it looks good on a dummy when you're stacking pen sets and the dummy doesn't move, but I'd rather put more into my area damage which will do far more than a potential 10k dmg every 10 seconds. 10 seconds!

And no, a stamblade won't magically number jump. Because you're already only hitting what? 45k at max pen with a couple raid buffs? 42/44k at 15k pen without said raid buffs is a bit more promising.

You asked me what my point is, and babbled in about class equality. And I already told you, if you'rr stacking pen and using raid buffs to impress your friends on a solo dummy, you're not going to get too much more from the remaining raid buffs. Alkosh, crusher, combat prayer, fracture, potl aren't going to bost your dps a little. You'll benifit from cuncuss and warhorn, spc, and PA, but those are all minor buffs in comparison. You need to let raid buff you and stick to % modifier.

You'd already know this if you did more than magic tricks with your nb to impress your friends and some lvl 20 bowbuild wardens that only know to light attack.

PS, I have a nb too. Dk is better.

Izaki · July 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ConnorWoods wrote: »

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

Not sure I follow that first part ... do I lose Fracture and Berserk on the 6m dummy?

The last sentence is exactly my point, though. The 3m dummy is sufficient to test one thing against another thing in a given build. When you go to the 6m dummy, you have to change your rotation.

Of course, if you have someone throwing shards/bubbles, running Worm, etc., then doing the 6m is fine ... just not really a good reason I can think of to do it solo, since your solo 6m rotation is likely not your actual DPS rotation.

No but self buffing fracture/beserk won't happen in a trial an some of your super good parse will fade into obscurity with raid buffs because everyone will have them. I main a stamplar and 47k isn't hella special when I'm given fracture/combat prayer

Ok, but ... what's your point? Every build has unique advantages that lead to higher parses, most of which are equalized with raid buffs. Your stamplar is getting Minor Fracture via a unique debuff that no other build gets, so who cares?

On a stamblade, you will be self-buffing Major Fracture and Minor Berserk. You'll also be getting those same buffs/debuffs from other sources, but you'll likely have higher uptime on Minor Berserk in many cases (e.g., formations where you aren't always standing in Combat Prayer). And a "super good parse" isn't going to "fade into obscurity." What does that even mean?

No idea what the point of that comment is, honestly. This isn't an e-peen contest. Solo parses are supposed to be about testing rotations, CP, gear, etc., not about cross-build comparisons.

False, dk-warden-nightblade get fracture.

My point is it's hard to test 1 class solo and say 'hey this class is really good' because it's got raid buffs, and running 2 pen sets. Honest to god truth alot of these parses I see (when actually tested with raid buffs) don't do much more than 55k dps.

Then you get classes/setups doing 42-45k without raid buffs that do 70-71k with raid buffs. For the sake of accuracy you need to set them up and compare them like you would in a trial. Stam nb won't run tfs/nmg/sharp weapons in a trial so a 48k test with it isn't so special, because you won't be doing much more than that in a raid. See where I'm getting at?

My best templar parse was actually last patch (homestead), I did 51k and no, it was not raid viable.

First, I never said I use NMG or Sharpened or the Lover on the PTS, because I use neither of those.
Second, if you're saying that I'm using a build specifically made for the dummy, then you're very very wrong.
Third, a stamblade in a raid buffed test will still do more DPS than a stamplar in the same test. They just have higher single target damage.

LOL.

I'm walking away. I'm walking away, >.< lmao I tried to explain it to you. Walking away..

(I've pulled 72k raid buffed)

Edit: ^usually about 66k, idk if its a console thing but I tend to get a mini screen freeze when warhorn pops.

Good for you. Except that in an actual raid you're never going to have 100% Major Force uptime or 100% Combat Prayer uptime. A Stamblade doesn't need Combat Prayer to still get 100% Minor Berserk uptime. That's where the DPS matters - in a raid. So those group centurion tests are pretty cool, but they are also pretty useless because they simulate a very unlikely environment, and they are truely no good for comparing one setup with another. Its okay for class comparisons I guess, so if you want it that bad, I'll do one of them for you.

I still don't get the point of your so called "explanation" mate. Because even without Minor Berserk, just with Fracture, I've been able to hit over 45k on the PTS. So that's without Relentless Focus, which is also one of my strongest DPS abilities.

For solo dps. In no way is that an accurate measurement of dps in a raid. It's a measurement of how long you can sit infront of a dummy with a pocket full of self buffs on a build that probably viable for nuking bosses in a normal dungeon provided the lvl 20 wardens sit still. My point is I build according to the content i'll be running. You might hit lower in a dummy test but way higher in a raid. You're building backwards.

You're on console. How would you know if you hit higher or lower in a raid? It seems to me that you don't and that you only speculate. "Stam nb won't run tfs/nmg/sharp weapons in a trial" this sentence of yours truly made me laugh. Stamina builds don't get much support unless you have more than 2 in the group, which enables you to run NMG and Sunderflame, thus dropping TFS. However, its pretty rare to have more than 2 stamina DPS in a raid group these days, because after all, they are squishier than magicka builds. So TFS is basically the strongest DPS set out there right now if you have up to 2 stamina DPS in your raid. Once that's in your kit, you build around it depending on your group. Right now penetration is the easiest and the most efficient stat to build for. If you do decide to run NMG with only 2 stamina DDs in the group, you both could switch to Infused main hand with a Poison glyph (which is much higher DPS than Precise by the way, which is what you said you were running). Sharpened off-hand and back bar isn't even a subject of discussion in Morrowind and the Thief mundus stone is a staple also. I build depending on my group composition, which never changes, that means that the only adjustments to my setup that I'm doing are depending on the raid itself.

In Horns of the Reach, the main hand weapon is always Infused with a Poison glyph and the off-hand is Precise as well as the back bar in group situations. Shadow mundus.

Kra'gh isn't optimal in trials for 1 reason only: the hitbox is a mess. Due to this, most of the time your Kra'gh isn't even hitting the boss because of its weird targeting system, you could be right in the face of the boss and your Kra'gh proc would still miss from time to time. In a mobile fight? Forget about Kra'gh entirely. How can you tell me that you build optimally for raids if you're running Kra'gh? Velidreth is stronger in terms of cleave and is much more reliable, which makes it an instantly superior choice. The 1st piece bonus is weaker, yes, but putting 29 points into penetration isn't a big deal with the front loaded CP, especially on a stamplar.

So the only reason why I told you that I was parsing over 45k without Relentless Focus is to show you that what you were saying about classes that hit 42-45k will hit 70k+ raid buffed also applies to Stamblade, except that they also get the additional DPS from an insanely strong nuke skill that is Relentless Focus. And adding on to that, Stamblades will always have higher Minor Berserk uptimes than other classes, so although the buff is redundant, its still beneficial. So your whole "parse fading into obscurity" thing is a load of crap. Being able to self buff things doesn't mean that you'll be doing less DPS in a raid. Just so you know: in my 48k parses (I have a load of them now) my Major Fracture uptime is only around 70-80%. Do you want me to list all the other buffs that I didn't have but that I do have in a raid? Spell Power Cure, NMG, Minor Fracture, Minor Vulnerability, Off-Balance, War Horn stats buff, Major Force, Minor Brutality and Major Slayer. I think there's still room to be buffed all the way up to 70k+ with all of that. And I'll repeat myself: group centurion tests are just as useless as solo DPS tests in terms of analyzing your actual raid DPS.

Don't tell me how to build for trials when you clearly aren't up to date on most of the stuff yourself. Oh and by the way: I play stamplar too.

I can see what my raid damage is by having some friends come help me hit 3, 6m dummies with raid buffs. By your post I can see you've clearly got no idea what you're talking about. Velidreth is garbage unless you're playing a *** nightblade, and pen is so easy to stack you have to reduce what you're wearing before going into a trial. Hence, you probably won't run 2 pen sets. Back to velidreth, I don't need it to do crappy low maybe it will hit maybe it wont damage. I'd rather give an overall damage boost to my aoe/crit. Esp in trash fights as that may likely be what slows you down in a score run. Sure, it looks good on a dummy when you're stacking pen sets and the dummy doesn't move, but I'd rather put more into my area damage which will do far more than a potential 10k dmg every 10 seconds. 10 seconds!

And no, a stamblade won't magically number jump. Because you're already only hitting what? 45k at max pen with a couple raid buffs? 42/44k at 15k pen without said raid buffs is a bit more promising.

You asked me what my point is, and babbled in about class equality. And I already told you, if you'rr stacking pen and using raid buffs to impress your friends on a solo dummy, you're not going to get too much more from the remaining raid buffs. Alkosh, crusher, combat prayer, fracture, potl aren't going to bost your dps a little. You'll benifit from cuncuss and warhorn, spc, and PA, but those are all minor buffs in comparison. You need to let raid buff you and stick to % modifier.

You'd already know this if you did more than magic tricks with your nb to impress your friends and some lvl 20 bowbuild wardens that only know to light attack.

PS, I have a nb too. Dk is better.

And I told you I'm not stacking penetration. I'm running Hunding's, TFS, Infused/Sharp weapons and 29 CP. That's it for penetration. 15k. Pretty promising, right?

I don't know what I'm talking about? Funny because the more you write, the more I get the impression of the contrary being true: you don't know what you're talking about.

Velidreth is garbage. Okay. I suggest you edit your post though, because it is pretty hard to take you seriously after you said that. @ConnorWoods help me out on this one, I remember you talking about that not too long ago, you had a pretty nice explanation for it on your stamplar.

The second to last paragraph... Do you make that stuff up off the top of your head? I've already told you that I'm not stacking pen sets and that I'm only using 1 raid buff (Major Fracture ain't a raid buff, its a standard buff). By the way, % modifiers are additive, the more you have, the less important each individual one becomes, and they are also additive with CP, your Jabs damage, your Incap damage bonus, your Killer's Blade 300% increase, etc. One sentence was really funny though: Concussion (aka Minor Vulnerability) won't give as much benefit as Minor Berserk. Both are 8% dude. Off-Balance which comes hand in hand with Concussion is 10% extra. Our group doesn't run Alkosh, because its not consistent enough and because tanks are much more useful in other sets and also because NMG offers roughly the same amount of penetration with 100% uptime.

DKs are actually not top of the line these days.

Subversus · July 2017

Actually for 2h nirn mace will be bis for PvP next patch, as tested by hexys. Anything else is irrelevant tbh.

LiquidPony · July 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ConnorWoods wrote: »

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

Not sure I follow that first part ... do I lose Fracture and Berserk on the 6m dummy?

The last sentence is exactly my point, though. The 3m dummy is sufficient to test one thing against another thing in a given build. When you go to the 6m dummy, you have to change your rotation.

Of course, if you have someone throwing shards/bubbles, running Worm, etc., then doing the 6m is fine ... just not really a good reason I can think of to do it solo, since your solo 6m rotation is likely not your actual DPS rotation.

No but self buffing fracture/beserk won't happen in a trial an some of your super good parse will fade into obscurity with raid buffs because everyone will have them. I main a stamplar and 47k isn't hella special when I'm given fracture/combat prayer

Ok, but ... what's your point? Every build has unique advantages that lead to higher parses, most of which are equalized with raid buffs. Your stamplar is getting Minor Fracture via a unique debuff that no other build gets, so who cares?

On a stamblade, you will be self-buffing Major Fracture and Minor Berserk. You'll also be getting those same buffs/debuffs from other sources, but you'll likely have higher uptime on Minor Berserk in many cases (e.g., formations where you aren't always standing in Combat Prayer). And a "super good parse" isn't going to "fade into obscurity." What does that even mean?

No idea what the point of that comment is, honestly. This isn't an e-peen contest. Solo parses are supposed to be about testing rotations, CP, gear, etc., not about cross-build comparisons.

False, dk-warden-nightblade get fracture.

My point is it's hard to test 1 class solo and say 'hey this class is really good' because it's got raid buffs, and running 2 pen sets. Honest to god truth alot of these parses I see (when actually tested with raid buffs) don't do much more than 55k dps.

Then you get classes/setups doing 42-45k without raid buffs that do 70-71k with raid buffs. For the sake of accuracy you need to set them up and compare them like you would in a trial. Stam nb won't run tfs/nmg/sharp weapons in a trial so a 48k test with it isn't so special, because you won't be doing much more than that in a raid. See where I'm getting at?

My best templar parse was actually last patch (homestead), I did 51k and no, it was not raid viable.

First, I never said I use NMG or Sharpened or the Lover on the PTS, because I use neither of those.
Second, if you're saying that I'm using a build specifically made for the dummy, then you're very very wrong.
Third, a stamblade in a raid buffed test will still do more DPS than a stamplar in the same test. They just have higher single target damage.

LOL.

I'm walking away. I'm walking away, >.< lmao I tried to explain it to you. Walking away..

(I've pulled 72k raid buffed)

Edit: ^usually about 66k, idk if its a console thing but I tend to get a mini screen freeze when warhorn pops.

Good for you. Except that in an actual raid you're never going to have 100% Major Force uptime or 100% Combat Prayer uptime. A Stamblade doesn't need Combat Prayer to still get 100% Minor Berserk uptime. That's where the DPS matters - in a raid. So those group centurion tests are pretty cool, but they are also pretty useless because they simulate a very unlikely environment, and they are truely no good for comparing one setup with another. Its okay for class comparisons I guess, so if you want it that bad, I'll do one of them for you.

I still don't get the point of your so called "explanation" mate. Because even without Minor Berserk, just with Fracture, I've been able to hit over 45k on the PTS. So that's without Relentless Focus, which is also one of my strongest DPS abilities.

For solo dps. In no way is that an accurate measurement of dps in a raid. It's a measurement of how long you can sit infront of a dummy with a pocket full of self buffs on a build that probably viable for nuking bosses in a normal dungeon provided the lvl 20 wardens sit still. My point is I build according to the content i'll be running. You might hit lower in a dummy test but way higher in a raid. You're building backwards.

You're on console. How would you know if you hit higher or lower in a raid? It seems to me that you don't and that you only speculate. "Stam nb won't run tfs/nmg/sharp weapons in a trial" this sentence of yours truly made me laugh. Stamina builds don't get much support unless you have more than 2 in the group, which enables you to run NMG and Sunderflame, thus dropping TFS. However, its pretty rare to have more than 2 stamina DPS in a raid group these days, because after all, they are squishier than magicka builds. So TFS is basically the strongest DPS set out there right now if you have up to 2 stamina DPS in your raid. Once that's in your kit, you build around it depending on your group. Right now penetration is the easiest and the most efficient stat to build for. If you do decide to run NMG with only 2 stamina DDs in the group, you both could switch to Infused main hand with a Poison glyph (which is much higher DPS than Precise by the way, which is what you said you were running). Sharpened off-hand and back bar isn't even a subject of discussion in Morrowind and the Thief mundus stone is a staple also. I build depending on my group composition, which never changes, that means that the only adjustments to my setup that I'm doing are depending on the raid itself.

In Horns of the Reach, the main hand weapon is always Infused with a Poison glyph and the off-hand is Precise as well as the back bar in group situations. Shadow mundus.

Kra'gh isn't optimal in trials for 1 reason only: the hitbox is a mess. Due to this, most of the time your Kra'gh isn't even hitting the boss because of its weird targeting system, you could be right in the face of the boss and your Kra'gh proc would still miss from time to time. In a mobile fight? Forget about Kra'gh entirely. How can you tell me that you build optimally for raids if you're running Kra'gh? Velidreth is stronger in terms of cleave and is much more reliable, which makes it an instantly superior choice. The 1st piece bonus is weaker, yes, but putting 29 points into penetration isn't a big deal with the front loaded CP, especially on a stamplar.

So the only reason why I told you that I was parsing over 45k without Relentless Focus is to show you that what you were saying about classes that hit 42-45k will hit 70k+ raid buffed also applies to Stamblade, except that they also get the additional DPS from an insanely strong nuke skill that is Relentless Focus. And adding on to that, Stamblades will always have higher Minor Berserk uptimes than other classes, so although the buff is redundant, its still beneficial. So your whole "parse fading into obscurity" thing is a load of crap. Being able to self buff things doesn't mean that you'll be doing less DPS in a raid. Just so you know: in my 48k parses (I have a load of them now) my Major Fracture uptime is only around 70-80%. Do you want me to list all the other buffs that I didn't have but that I do have in a raid? Spell Power Cure, NMG, Minor Fracture, Minor Vulnerability, Off-Balance, War Horn stats buff, Major Force, Minor Brutality and Major Slayer. I think there's still room to be buffed all the way up to 70k+ with all of that. And I'll repeat myself: group centurion tests are just as useless as solo DPS tests in terms of analyzing your actual raid DPS.

Don't tell me how to build for trials when you clearly aren't up to date on most of the stuff yourself. Oh and by the way: I play stamplar too.

I can see what my raid damage is by having some friends come help me hit 3, 6m dummies with raid buffs. By your post I can see you've clearly got no idea what you're talking about. Velidreth is garbage unless you're playing a *** nightblade, and pen is so easy to stack you have to reduce what you're wearing before going into a trial. Hence, you probably won't run 2 pen sets. Back to velidreth, I don't need it to do crappy low maybe it will hit maybe it wont damage. I'd rather give an overall damage boost to my aoe/crit. Esp in trash fights as that may likely be what slows you down in a score run. Sure, it looks good on a dummy when you're stacking pen sets and the dummy doesn't move, but I'd rather put more into my area damage which will do far more than a potential 10k dmg every 10 seconds. 10 seconds!

And no, a stamblade won't magically number jump. Because you're already only hitting what? 45k at max pen with a couple raid buffs? 42/44k at 15k pen without said raid buffs is a bit more promising.

You asked me what my point is, and babbled in about class equality. And I already told you, if you'rr stacking pen and using raid buffs to impress your friends on a solo dummy, you're not going to get too much more from the remaining raid buffs. Alkosh, crusher, combat prayer, fracture, potl aren't going to bost your dps a little. You'll benifit from cuncuss and warhorn, spc, and PA, but those are all minor buffs in comparison. You need to let raid buff you and stick to % modifier.

You'd already know this if you did more than magic tricks with your nb to impress your friends and some lvl 20 bowbuild wardens that only know to light attack.

PS, I have a nb too. Dk is better.

Wow. Just ... wow.

This is an ep1kally awful post.

I can see what my raid damage is by having some friends come help me hit 3, 6m dummies with raid buffs.

The lolz. Your "dummy parses with friends" aren't indicative of real raid damage. Unless you think you're getting 100% off-balance uptime, 100% Minor Berserk uptime, etc., on a completely stationary target in actual raids.

Regardless, this (like so many of these conversations) all smells like some butt-hurt e-peen nonsense over stamblade target skeleton DPS potential. But @IzakiBrotherSs isn't doing anything fishy; I've done similar testing with a variety of gear (but less skill!) and I can hit 45k solo and 50k+ with Lightning Wall and no other "raid buffs," without hitting pen cap (since I run Infused + Sharpened). And we don't run Alkosh in our group, so in raid I hit almost exactly pen cap since our stamplar runs PotL and the tank is using Infused Crusher. Our group tests (both small group and full raid group) follow the same trend: we see stamblades pulling the highest single target, with stamDK and then stamplar very very close behind, but of course the stamDKs have better cleave and the stamplar has much more group utility. Haven't done much stamsorc of stamwarden testing this patch so can't really attest to that.

Izaki · July 2017

@Ep1kMalware Wait a second, was that 72k DPS with 3 6mil dummies raid buffed? Because if that's the case, its some very low DPS.