PTS 3.1.0. Optimal weapo traits. For pvp and pve?

LiquidPony

Jonno wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Okay so just tested the Shadow mundus stone.

http://imgur.com/fxVhSZu

5 Hunding's, 5 TFS, 2 Kra'gh, vMA Bow, Infused/Precise front bar, Precise back bar, Shadow mundus.

So basically your choices for mundus stones this patch in PvE on Stam NB are: Lover and Shadow.

do a 6m dummy parse plz 3m are worthless

Nah, 3m parse is fine for testing.

No one does 6m sustained damage without group buffs and synergies in real PvE anyway.

theamazingx

LiquidPony wrote: »

Jonno wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Okay so just tested the Shadow mundus stone.

http://imgur.com/fxVhSZu

5 Hunding's, 5 TFS, 2 Kra'gh, vMA Bow, Infused/Precise front bar, Precise back bar, Shadow mundus.

So basically your choices for mundus stones this patch in PvE on Stam NB are: Lover and Shadow.

do a 6m dummy parse plz 3m are worthless

Nah, 3m parse is fine for testing.

No one does 6m sustained damage without group buffs and synergies in real PvE anyway.

As far as comparing two things directly, a longer test is necessary to even out rng.

Subversus

I already have a cancer build in mind...

CavalryPK

Subversus wrote: »

I already have a cancer build in mind...

well. cmon. tell us !

Subversus

CavalryPK wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

I already have a cancer build in mind...

well. cmon. tell us !

I doubt it'll work very well, idk gotta test. Was thinking of going the route of oblivion on my dk, to give you sort of a hint...

Jonno

theamazingx wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Jonno wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Okay so just tested the Shadow mundus stone.

http://imgur.com/fxVhSZu

5 Hunding's, 5 TFS, 2 Kra'gh, vMA Bow, Infused/Precise front bar, Precise back bar, Shadow mundus.

So basically your choices for mundus stones this patch in PvE on Stam NB are: Lover and Shadow.

do a 6m dummy parse plz 3m are worthless

Nah, 3m parse is fine for testing.

No one does 6m sustained damage without group buffs and synergies in real PvE anyway.

As far as comparing two things directly, a longer test is necessary to even out rng.

this exactly 3m parses on stam is useless

LiquidPony

theamazingx wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Jonno wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Okay so just tested the Shadow mundus stone.

http://imgur.com/fxVhSZu

5 Hunding's, 5 TFS, 2 Kra'gh, vMA Bow, Infused/Precise front bar, Precise back bar, Shadow mundus.

So basically your choices for mundus stones this patch in PvE on Stam NB are: Lover and Shadow.

do a 6m dummy parse plz 3m are worthless

Nah, 3m parse is fine for testing.

No one does 6m sustained damage without group buffs and synergies in real PvE anyway.

As far as comparing two things directly, a longer test is necessary to even out rng.

You even out RNG by doing a series of tests and taking an average.

The 6m test is not an accurate representation of real combat. No one, anywhere, ever, needs to do 6m damage with no support in group PvE (those who solo vet group content excluded, obviously).

The 3m dummy is a good representation of what you can do when you really need to hammer out the DPS (e.g., execute on The Mage on vAA HM).

Asmael

LiquidPony wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Jonno wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Okay so just tested the Shadow mundus stone.

http://imgur.com/fxVhSZu

5 Hunding's, 5 TFS, 2 Kra'gh, vMA Bow, Infused/Precise front bar, Precise back bar, Shadow mundus.

So basically your choices for mundus stones this patch in PvE on Stam NB are: Lover and Shadow.

do a 6m dummy parse plz 3m are worthless

Nah, 3m parse is fine for testing.

No one does 6m sustained damage without group buffs and synergies in real PvE anyway.

As far as comparing two things directly, a longer test is necessary to even out rng.

You even out RNG by doing a series of tests and taking an average.

The 6m test is not an accurate representation of real combat. No one, anywhere, ever, needs to do 6m damage solo in group PvE (those who solo vet group content excluded, obviously).

The 3m dummy is a good representation of what you can do when you really need to hammer out the DPS (e.g., execute on The Mage on vAA HM).

Trial bosses last long enough to drop ultimates several times - just like you have to on a 6m dummy.

On a 3m one, you can drop a single Standard as a DK, that's not realistic by any mean.

ConnorWoods

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

LiquidPony

Asmael wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Jonno wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Okay so just tested the Shadow mundus stone.

http://imgur.com/fxVhSZu

5 Hunding's, 5 TFS, 2 Kra'gh, vMA Bow, Infused/Precise front bar, Precise back bar, Shadow mundus.

So basically your choices for mundus stones this patch in PvE on Stam NB are: Lover and Shadow.

do a 6m dummy parse plz 3m are worthless

Nah, 3m parse is fine for testing.

No one does 6m sustained damage without group buffs and synergies in real PvE anyway.

As far as comparing two things directly, a longer test is necessary to even out rng.

You even out RNG by doing a series of tests and taking an average.

The 6m test is not an accurate representation of real combat. No one, anywhere, ever, needs to do 6m damage solo in group PvE (those who solo vet group content excluded, obviously).

The 3m dummy is a good representation of what you can do when you really need to hammer out the DPS (e.g., execute on The Mage on vAA HM).

Trial bosses last long enough to drop ultimates several times - just like you have to on a 6m dummy.

On a 3m one, you can drop a single Standard as a DK, that's not realistic by any mean.

Then do a test with your raid group on a Trials dummy?

DK with Standard is an edge case. Every other build has plenty of time to drop multiple ultis on a 3m dummy.

LiquidPony

ConnorWoods wrote: »

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

Not sure I follow that first part ... do I lose Fracture and Berserk on the 6m dummy?

The last sentence is exactly my point, though. The 3m dummy is sufficient to test one thing against another thing in a given build. When you go to the 6m dummy, you have to change your rotation.

Of course, if you have someone throwing shards/bubbles, running Worm, etc., then doing the 6m is fine ... just not really a good reason I can think of to do it solo, since your solo 6m rotation is likely not your actual DPS rotation.

caperon

I do the 25M by myself now and then. Best way to see the diference betwen 2 setups.

Ep1kMalware

Rataroto wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

For stamina in PvE:
Lover or Shadow mundus stone, Infused Main-hand, Precise Off-hand, Precise Bow. Lover or Shadow depends, its basically 18.3% critical hit damage vs 8.4% overall damage increase. The traits are set in stone however, the BiS is very unlikely to be different from the above.

For stamina in PvP:
As usual it depends on a lot of variables, including your opponents. Sharpened is most likely still the best trait for straight up damage (especially against tanky opponents), Precise and Nirnhoned are pretty good options for both offense and defense.
However: Infused with a Poison Enchant and the Lover Mundus stone is basically a new Viper and if you manage to get enough penetration through your sets and CP, then this may very well be the new "cancer meta".

I'm not too sure about magicka in PvE (probably Precise and the Lover), but I think that for PvP, the same stuff applies as for stamina. #MagickaViper

why precise bow if it will be literally useless when u arive on main bar?
I say Sharp Bow (backbar for magicka peeps as well)
and sharp/infused or sharp/precise on main bar
for magicka peeps maybe even sharp on staff too.

moral of the story: penetration is lower, tho penetration is king
Sharp still King, good try ZOS

Because stam this patch can easilly overpenetrate in group content. This WILL be an issues for bis (remember OP asked for best, meaning best possible setup) precise will give him at least something wherass sharp will be a completely useless trait. You don't spend long on your back bar but you want to make your time there count for max dps output)

If you're not recieving debuffs from the tank or are solo play then sharpened is still the best choice for you.

Ep1kMalware

LiquidPony wrote: »

ConnorWoods wrote: »

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

Not sure I follow that first part ... do I lose Fracture and Berserk on the 6m dummy?

The last sentence is exactly my point, though. The 3m dummy is sufficient to test one thing against another thing in a given build. When you go to the 6m dummy, you have to change your rotation.

Of course, if you have someone throwing shards/bubbles, running Worm, etc., then doing the 6m is fine ... just not really a good reason I can think of to do it solo, since your solo 6m rotation is likely not your actual DPS rotation.

No but self buffing fracture/beserk won't happen in a trial an some of your super good parse will fade into obscurity with raid buffs because everyone will have them. I main a stamplar and 47k isn't hella special when I'm given fracture/combat prayer

Izaki

I think that doing 20 tests on the 3mil dummy is good enough to see which setup is better.

Lover + Infused/Precise Front and Precise Back = average of 45662.9; highest being 47031 and lowest being 43981

Shadow + Infused/Precise Front and Precise Back = average of 45670.2; highest being 47932 and lowest being 43252

Close to the point where it doesn't matter.

But if you guys insist I'll do 6mil dummies. The only problem with that is that there are many more factors interfering with the testing, namely sustain (number of heavy attacks vs light attacks), Leeching Strikes applications, etc. On the 3mil dummy I'm basically comparing identical rotations (same number of heavy attacks, same sequences), where the only variable is critical hits (which is why I did 20 tests each, which is not enough but a fairly good impression). My buff and debuff uptimes are literally the same on basically every one of those 40 parses. On a 6mil dummy that wouldn't be the case because the rotations will change from one parse to another depending on my stamina level. I could obviously spend a few hours finding a perfect rotation for the 6mil dummy with a set number of heavy attacks, etc. but if someone else wants to do it instead of me, please do.

Not that I can't sustain a 6mil dummy, I can and I pull 45.6k on it, its just less accurate for this kind of testing.

LiquidPony

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ConnorWoods wrote: »

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

Not sure I follow that first part ... do I lose Fracture and Berserk on the 6m dummy?

The last sentence is exactly my point, though. The 3m dummy is sufficient to test one thing against another thing in a given build. When you go to the 6m dummy, you have to change your rotation.

Of course, if you have someone throwing shards/bubbles, running Worm, etc., then doing the 6m is fine ... just not really a good reason I can think of to do it solo, since your solo 6m rotation is likely not your actual DPS rotation.

No but self buffing fracture/beserk won't happen in a trial an some of your super good parse will fade into obscurity with raid buffs because everyone will have them. I main a stamplar and 47k isn't hella special when I'm given fracture/combat prayer

Ok, but ... what's your point? Every build has unique advantages that lead to higher parses, most of which are equalized with raid buffs. Your stamplar is getting Minor Fracture via a unique debuff that no other build gets, so who cares?

On a stamblade, you will be self-buffing Major Fracture and Minor Berserk. You'll also be getting those same buffs/debuffs from other sources, but you'll likely have higher uptime on Minor Berserk in many cases (e.g., formations where you aren't always standing in Combat Prayer). And a "super good parse" isn't going to "fade into obscurity." What does that even mean?

No idea what the point of that comment is, honestly. This isn't an e-peen contest. Solo parses are supposed to be about testing rotations, CP, gear, etc., not about cross-build comparisons.

Izaki

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ConnorWoods wrote: »

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

Not sure I follow that first part ... do I lose Fracture and Berserk on the 6m dummy?

The last sentence is exactly my point, though. The 3m dummy is sufficient to test one thing against another thing in a given build. When you go to the 6m dummy, you have to change your rotation.

Of course, if you have someone throwing shards/bubbles, running Worm, etc., then doing the 6m is fine ... just not really a good reason I can think of to do it solo, since your solo 6m rotation is likely not your actual DPS rotation.

No but self buffing fracture/beserk won't happen in a trial an some of your super good parse will fade into obscurity with raid buffs because everyone will have them. I main a stamplar and 47k isn't hella special when I'm given fracture/combat prayer

You sure? Without Relentless Focus I'm pulling 43.9k on live. Because I'm not using Relentless, I also don't have my biggest "nuke" skill. My highest DPS with Relentless on live is 48.2k (which is about right considering that Minor Berserk gives you less than 8% due to it being additive with CP and Incap's 20% damage bonus and the execute damage bonus). So theoretically, on a stamplar you'd have to be pulling about 44k DPS to get to 48k with Minor Berserk (because they also have a % modifier some of their skills). I haven't seen any stamplar parses at 44k yet... I think highest I've seen was @ConnorWoods with 42.9k.

So Stam NB is higher in single target.

But obviously, although Stam NB is the highest in single target, it barely has any AoE contrary to Stamplar or Stam Sorc. Which is why it all evens out in the end.

cpuScientist

LiquidPony wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ConnorWoods wrote: »

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

Not sure I follow that first part ... do I lose Fracture and Berserk on the 6m dummy?

The last sentence is exactly my point, though. The 3m dummy is sufficient to test one thing against another thing in a given build. When you go to the 6m dummy, you have to change your rotation.

Of course, if you have someone throwing shards/bubbles, running Worm, etc., then doing the 6m is fine ... just not really a good reason I can think of to do it solo, since your solo 6m rotation is likely not your actual DPS rotation.

No but self buffing fracture/beserk won't happen in a trial an some of your super good parse will fade into obscurity with raid buffs because everyone will have them. I main a stamplar and 47k isn't hella special when I'm given fracture/combat prayer

Ok, but ... what's your point? Every build has unique advantages that lead to higher parses, most of which are equalized with raid buffs. Your stamplar is getting Minor Fracture via a unique debuff that no other build gets, so who cares? And even so ... everything you just said is wrong. On a stamblade, you will be self-buffing Major Fracture and Minor Berserk. You'll also be getting those same buffs/debuffs from other sources, but you'll likely have higher uptime on Minor Berserk in many cases (e.g., formations where you aren't always standing in Combat Prayer). And a "super good parse" isn't going to "fade into obscurity." What does that even mean?

No idea what the point of that comment is, honestly. This isn't an e-peen contest. Solo parses are supposed to be about testing rotations, CP, gear, etc., not about cross-build comparisons.

EXACTLY!!!

LiquidPony

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I think that doing 20 tests on the 3mil dummy is good enough to see which setup is better.

Lover + Infused/Precise Front and Precise Back = average of 45662.9; highest being 47031 and lowest being 43981

Shadow + Infused/Precise Front and Precise Back = average of 45670.2; highest being 47932 and lowest being 43252

Close to the point where it doesn't matter.

But if you guys insist I'll do 6mil dummies. The only problem with that is that there are many more factors interfering with the testing, namely sustain (number of heavy attacks vs light attacks), Leeching Strikes applications, etc. On the 3mil dummy I'm basically comparing identical rotations (same number of heavy attacks, same sequences), where the only variable is critical hits (which is why I did 20 tests each, which is not enough but a fairly good impression). My buff and debuff uptimes are literally the same on basically every one of those 40 parses. On a 6mil dummy that wouldn't be the case because the rotations will change from one parse to another depending on my stamina level. I could obviously spend a few hours finding a perfect rotation for the 6mil dummy with a set number of heavy attacks, etc. but if someone else wants to do it instead of me, please do.

Not that I can't sustain a 6mil dummy, I can and I pull 45.6k on it, its just less accurate for this kind of testing.

@IzakiBrotherSs appreciate the testing, nice work. Gold star for you.

Just to clarify ... this is still with 5 x TFS, 5 x Hunding's, 2 x Kra'gh?

Would you expect your DPS to increase slightly (500-1k maybe) with War Machine instead of Hunding's? I'm assuming you haven't been testing with War Machine due to a lack of the right weapons?

Izaki

LiquidPony wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I think that doing 20 tests on the 3mil dummy is good enough to see which setup is better.

Lover + Infused/Precise Front and Precise Back = average of 45662.9; highest being 47031 and lowest being 43981

Shadow + Infused/Precise Front and Precise Back = average of 45670.2; highest being 47932 and lowest being 43252

Close to the point where it doesn't matter.

But if you guys insist I'll do 6mil dummies. The only problem with that is that there are many more factors interfering with the testing, namely sustain (number of heavy attacks vs light attacks), Leeching Strikes applications, etc. On the 3mil dummy I'm basically comparing identical rotations (same number of heavy attacks, same sequences), where the only variable is critical hits (which is why I did 20 tests each, which is not enough but a fairly good impression). My buff and debuff uptimes are literally the same on basically every one of those 40 parses. On a 6mil dummy that wouldn't be the case because the rotations will change from one parse to another depending on my stamina level. I could obviously spend a few hours finding a perfect rotation for the 6mil dummy with a set number of heavy attacks, etc. but if someone else wants to do it instead of me, please do.

Not that I can't sustain a 6mil dummy, I can and I pull 45.6k on it, its just less accurate for this kind of testing.

@IzakiBrotherSs appreciate the testing, nice work. Gold star for you.

Just to clarify ... this is still with 5 x TFS, 5 x Hunding's, 2 x Kra'gh?

Would you expect your DPS to increase slightly (500-1k maybe) with War Machine instead of Hunding's? I'm assuming you haven't been testing with War Machine due to a lack of the right weapons?

Thanks! About to start testing all the other setups I have in mind:
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Infused/Precise front, Precise back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Precise front, Precise back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Nirn/Precise front, Precise back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Infused/Sharp front, Sharp back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Precise/Sharp front, Precise back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Precise/Sharp front, Sharp back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Sharp front, Sharp back

So far I've only done the first weapon trait setup up and only 2 mundus stones out of 3.

I don't really want to test War Machine because its another % increase (aka another variable and its also additive with my other % modifiers and I don't want to screw with that for now!) and because of the reason you mentioned. Plus I don't have War Machine on the live server YET. So I just test with the setup I use on the live server, and with the luck that I have, there are very high chances that I'll be still using it next patch. So Hunding's, TFS and Kra'gh it is! War Machine should theoretically add some DPS although I've got no idea how much. My only problem with that set is that I'll be losing 10% crit chance. And I already don't have too much of that (80%), so dropping it even lower may result in lower DPS in the end...

LiquidPony

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I think that doing 20 tests on the 3mil dummy is good enough to see which setup is better.

Lover + Infused/Precise Front and Precise Back = average of 45662.9; highest being 47031 and lowest being 43981

Shadow + Infused/Precise Front and Precise Back = average of 45670.2; highest being 47932 and lowest being 43252

Close to the point where it doesn't matter.

But if you guys insist I'll do 6mil dummies. The only problem with that is that there are many more factors interfering with the testing, namely sustain (number of heavy attacks vs light attacks), Leeching Strikes applications, etc. On the 3mil dummy I'm basically comparing identical rotations (same number of heavy attacks, same sequences), where the only variable is critical hits (which is why I did 20 tests each, which is not enough but a fairly good impression). My buff and debuff uptimes are literally the same on basically every one of those 40 parses. On a 6mil dummy that wouldn't be the case because the rotations will change from one parse to another depending on my stamina level. I could obviously spend a few hours finding a perfect rotation for the 6mil dummy with a set number of heavy attacks, etc. but if someone else wants to do it instead of me, please do.

Not that I can't sustain a 6mil dummy, I can and I pull 45.6k on it, its just less accurate for this kind of testing.

@IzakiBrotherSs appreciate the testing, nice work. Gold star for you.

Just to clarify ... this is still with 5 x TFS, 5 x Hunding's, 2 x Kra'gh?

Would you expect your DPS to increase slightly (500-1k maybe) with War Machine instead of Hunding's? I'm assuming you haven't been testing with War Machine due to a lack of the right weapons?

Thanks! About to start testing all the other setups I have in mind:
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Infused/Precise front, Precise back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Precise front, Precise back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Nirn/Precise front, Precise back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Infused/Sharp front, Sharp back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Precise/Sharp front, Precise back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Precise/Sharp front, Sharp back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Sharp front, Sharp back

So far I've only done the first weapon trait setup up and only 2 mundus stones out of 3.

I don't really want to test War Machine because its another % increase (aka another variable and its also additive with my other % modifiers and I don't want to screw with that for now!) and because of the reason you mentioned. Plus I don't have War Machine on the live server YET. So I just test with the setup I use on the live server, and with the luck that I have, there are very high chances that I'll be still using it next patch. So Hunding's, TFS and Kra'gh it is!

I figured. I do have (on live) a Precise War Machine axe and a Sharpened War Machine Battle Axe ... but no luck getting the right DW weapons yet.

If you don't mind, could you share your live CP setup? And also, are you running 7 medium or 5/1/1 or 6/1?

Izaki

LiquidPony wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I think that doing 20 tests on the 3mil dummy is good enough to see which setup is better.

Lover + Infused/Precise Front and Precise Back = average of 45662.9; highest being 47031 and lowest being 43981

Shadow + Infused/Precise Front and Precise Back = average of 45670.2; highest being 47932 and lowest being 43252

Close to the point where it doesn't matter.

But if you guys insist I'll do 6mil dummies. The only problem with that is that there are many more factors interfering with the testing, namely sustain (number of heavy attacks vs light attacks), Leeching Strikes applications, etc. On the 3mil dummy I'm basically comparing identical rotations (same number of heavy attacks, same sequences), where the only variable is critical hits (which is why I did 20 tests each, which is not enough but a fairly good impression). My buff and debuff uptimes are literally the same on basically every one of those 40 parses. On a 6mil dummy that wouldn't be the case because the rotations will change from one parse to another depending on my stamina level. I could obviously spend a few hours finding a perfect rotation for the 6mil dummy with a set number of heavy attacks, etc. but if someone else wants to do it instead of me, please do.

Not that I can't sustain a 6mil dummy, I can and I pull 45.6k on it, its just less accurate for this kind of testing.

@IzakiBrotherSs appreciate the testing, nice work. Gold star for you.

Just to clarify ... this is still with 5 x TFS, 5 x Hunding's, 2 x Kra'gh?

Would you expect your DPS to increase slightly (500-1k maybe) with War Machine instead of Hunding's? I'm assuming you haven't been testing with War Machine due to a lack of the right weapons?

Thanks! About to start testing all the other setups I have in mind:
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Infused/Precise front, Precise back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Precise front, Precise back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Nirn/Precise front, Precise back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Infused/Sharp front, Sharp back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Precise/Sharp front, Precise back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Precise/Sharp front, Sharp back
– Lover/Shadow/Thief + Sharp front, Sharp back

So far I've only done the first weapon trait setup up and only 2 mundus stones out of 3.

I don't really want to test War Machine because its another % increase (aka another variable and its also additive with my other % modifiers and I don't want to screw with that for now!) and because of the reason you mentioned. Plus I don't have War Machine on the live server YET. So I just test with the setup I use on the live server, and with the luck that I have, there are very high chances that I'll be still using it next patch. So Hunding's, TFS and Kra'gh it is!

I figured. I do have (on live) a Precise War Machine axe and a Sharpened War Machine Battle Axe ... but no luck getting the right DW weapons yet.

If you don't mind, could you share your live CP setup? And also, are you running 7 medium or 5/1/1 or 6/1?

I've got an Infused mace and a Decisive sword (yeee bb)

Yep sure, running 6/1 full divines, all gold (except my Kra'gh heavy shoulder because I spent 3mil on flowers and am broke right now...)

66 Precise Strikes, 56 Mighty, 48 Thaum, 40 Master-at-Arms in trials. If your group doesn't run Crusher for whatever reason, take out 7 points out of Mighty and put them into Piercing.

Tannus15

I think what people will do is use the mundas stone which compliments the drop they happen to get.

Got sharp? Probably use the thief.
Got precise? Probably use the lover.

What other sets are you using? How do you want to balance your build?
I really like the direction of these changes.

CavalryPK

Tannus15 wrote: »

I think what people will do is use the mundas stone which compliments the drop they happen to get.

Got sharp? Probably use the thief.
Got precise? Probably use the lover.

What other sets are you using? How do you want to balance your build?
I really like the direction of these changes.

i like this answer. simple for simple minded folk like meh.

Xvorg

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

For stamina in PvE:
Lover or Shadow mundus stone, Infused Main-hand, Precise Off-hand, Precise Bow. Lover or Shadow depends, its basically 18.3% critical hit damage vs 8.4% overall damage increase. The traits are set in stone however, the BiS is very unlikely to be different from the above.

For stamina in PvP:
As usual it depends on a lot of variables, including your opponents. Sharpened is most likely still the best trait for straight up damage (especially against tanky opponents), Precise and Nirnhoned are pretty good options for both offense and defense.
However: Infused with a Poison Enchant and the Lover Mundus stone is basically a new Viper and if you manage to get enough penetration through your sets and CP, then this may very well be the new "cancer meta".

I'm not too sure about magicka in PvE (probably Precise and the Lover), but I think that for PvP, the same stuff applies as for stamina. #MagickaViper

Infused with a shield enchant?

SanTii.92

Tannus15 wrote: »

I think what people will do is use the mundas stone which compliments the drop they happen to get.

Got sharp? Probably use the thief.
Got precise? Probably use the lover.

What other sets are you using? How do you want to balance your build?
I really like the direction of these changes.

Pretty much this is what is going to happened. Although if I had to guess, I'd say that on organized groups, where penetration is granted we'll ser precise + shadow, or thief, with some cp on penetration

NyassaV

So on a magicka nightblade my staff should be what now? And what of my swords in PvP?

MLGProPlayer

theamazingx wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Jonno wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Okay so just tested the Shadow mundus stone.

http://imgur.com/fxVhSZu

5 Hunding's, 5 TFS, 2 Kra'gh, vMA Bow, Infused/Precise front bar, Precise back bar, Shadow mundus.

So basically your choices for mundus stones this patch in PvE on Stam NB are: Lover and Shadow.

do a 6m dummy parse plz 3m are worthless

Nah, 3m parse is fine for testing.

No one does 6m sustained damage without group buffs and synergies in real PvE anyway.

As far as comparing two things directly, a longer test is necessary to even out rng.

Or just do a few tests on the 3 mil dummy...

Izaki

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

theamazingx wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Jonno wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Okay so just tested the Shadow mundus stone.

http://imgur.com/fxVhSZu

5 Hunding's, 5 TFS, 2 Kra'gh, vMA Bow, Infused/Precise front bar, Precise back bar, Shadow mundus.

So basically your choices for mundus stones this patch in PvE on Stam NB are: Lover and Shadow.

do a 6m dummy parse plz 3m are worthless

Nah, 3m parse is fine for testing.

No one does 6m sustained damage without group buffs and synergies in real PvE anyway.

As far as comparing two things directly, a longer test is necessary to even out rng.

Or just do a few tests on the 3 mil dummy...

I'm planning on doing 20 per each setup i mentionned earlier... I think its enough, right? ^.^

ConnorWoods

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

ConnorWoods wrote: »

3m is fine depending on your buffs and your ultimate,

If you're a stam NB hitting 48k because of fracture and berserk, 3m isn't enough

However I feel like me as a stamplar with a 72 cost ulti and no fracture it can work

Also don't get carried away with dummys, it's supposed to be a tool to help you make a decision / perfect your rotation and shouldn't be taken as the word of god.

Not sure I follow that first part ... do I lose Fracture and Berserk on the 6m dummy?

The last sentence is exactly my point, though. The 3m dummy is sufficient to test one thing against another thing in a given build. When you go to the 6m dummy, you have to change your rotation.

Of course, if you have someone throwing shards/bubbles, running Worm, etc., then doing the 6m is fine ... just not really a good reason I can think of to do it solo, since your solo 6m rotation is likely not your actual DPS rotation.

No but self buffing fracture/beserk won't happen in a trial an some of your super good parse will fade into obscurity with raid buffs because everyone will have them. I main a stamplar and 47k isn't hella special when I'm given fracture/combat prayer

You sure? Without Relentless Focus I'm pulling 43.9k on live. Because I'm not using Relentless, I also don't have my biggest "nuke" skill. My highest DPS with Relentless on live is 48.2k (which is about right considering that Minor Berserk gives you less than 8% due to it being additive with CP and Incap's 20% damage bonus and the execute damage bonus). So theoretically, on a stamplar you'd have to be pulling about 44k DPS to get to 48k with Minor Berserk (because they also have a % modifier some of their skills). I haven't seen any stamplar parses at 44k yet... I think highest I've seen was @ConnorWoods with 42.9k.

So Stam NB is higher in single target.

But obviously, although Stam NB is the highest in single target, it barely has any AoE contrary to Stamplar or Stam Sorc. Which is why it all evens out in the end.

44K with only Major Fracture on Stamplar -Might- be doable if you absolutely cheese it, I did the 42.9k with Velidreth so obviously with Kr'agh and more into piercing so I cap the 3m with Fracture then I think it might be doable. However obviously this is complete cheese and I don't recommend it.