Bidding day - A Trade GMs worst Nightmare

JKorr

If the system is so bad it implodes, then ZOS will have no choice but to alter the system. Seems this current system is driven by players who either want to play ESO TRADER, or want to accumulate billions of gold for whatever reason.

The ones who are playing ESO Trader will totally dominate and ruin a global auction house. Anyone who posts items for sale at a decent price with be bought out, and the items relisted at a huge increase. People flip items now to a certain extent, but they have to do some traveling to do it. A global AH would be a dream come true for them.

In a different thread someone was complaining they had to sell 20k or 30k a week so they could stay in their trading guild so they could sell 20k or 30k a week so they could stay in their trading guild so they could......repeat ad infinitum. Why? Yes, you need gold for stuff like motifs, or recipes. Why do you need billions? I've seen stuff on the traders posted at 500% over the last sale price. I don't mind people making a profit; but 500%? Or more? I know items are worth what people will pay for them, but for some of the items it is getting beyond ridiculous. Not necessarily a bad thing; sure makes me not spend the gold. That would not change with a global AH, it would simply get worse.

Slurg

Karm1cOne wrote: »

A simple fix, for the short term anyway, is to increase the number of traders in locations like rawlka. It will alleviate pressure and open slots for additional guilds. If they tied the number to a percentage of players subbed or some way to keep up with additional demand, it would be best.

I think in that case you would see even more guilds competing for those spots in the short term.

At some point I think members are going to give up on guilds that require contributions that are more than they make in weekly sales. I already dropped one guild because their requirements were exhausting (they're keeping spreadsheets to track members) and not worth what I was making there. It's unsustainable in the long run without massive amounts of new player turnover.

drakhan2002_ESO

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I've been saying this ever since I started playing, but the guild trader system is terrible. It creates nightmare scenarios like this and creates huge entry barriers for new players. And if you're a casual player? Forget ever selling any of your items lol. How is this a healthy system?

I've also said this before, but I'd rather have a dumpster fire of an economy that is all-inclusive (global or even regional AH) than the elite boys' club that we have now.

Honestly, I'd like to see a compromise -- either an alliance based AH or regional based AH or zone based AH. Not a global AH.

Shawn_PT

Karm1cOne wrote: »

A simple fix, for the short term anyway, is to increase the number of traders in locations like rawlka. It will alleviate pressure and open slots for additional guilds. If they tied the number to a percentage of players subbed or some way to keep up with additional demand, it would be best.

I agree. With the expansion of Tamriel's map more spots for traders are made available, but this growth is perhaps not enough. Why not add more traders? It seems the game was built with more trader kiosks in mind than those we currently have. For example Bleakrock, IIRC there are three trader stalls there, yet only one of them actually has an NPC. Why not open the other two?

Jamini

GreyWolf_79 wrote: »

LOL I've actually been wanting to join a trading guild to sell all of my excess recipes and motifs and such... but most trading guilds want 5-10k a week in membership dues, which is not surprising if the trading spots are actually going for millions.

5-10k is nothing. It's literally the gold from your daily pledges at CP160.

If you aren't past CP160 yet, then you don't have anything worth selling. (Unless you want to sell reagent stacks)

But after searching through some of the guild stores, I realize that very few items actually sell for that much.

[PC/NA]

Two stacks of Ancestor Silk. (Material Farming.)
One stack of raw ore. (Material farming)
Twenty Elegant Linings. Eight Grain Solvents. (Deconstruction from pledges)
Three Kuta. Two Tempering Alloys. Two Dreugh Wax. (Refining materials)
Two Celestial or Dro'Mathra style pages. (Normal Trials)
Half of a Yokudon Motif Page (Questing)
Ancient Orc, Malacath, Thieves guild motif pages.... and more... and more (Boss drops, chest drops, daily drops)
Half an hour of farming humanoid mobs. (Farming)
Any decent armor set piece (non-shoulder) in divines, infused, impen. Tank pieces in sturdy. (Doing anything in most zones.)
Most 6-Trait set pieces in purple, unenchanted. (10k per. 1.4 required for profit to exceed mat cost. Crafted)
A stack of Columbine, bugloss, Mountain Flowers, Lady Smock... honestly any alchemy mats that are not fleshfly, spider eggs, or scrib jelly. (Mat farming)
Perfect Roe (Fishing)
Commission for a crafted set. (Depends on what you charge. I normally charge 2k/piece for time with their mats for a 6-trait piece. 2k/piece+mat cost if my mats. Rare styles or higher trait pieces will have higher commission rates. Crafting)
Golden Gear (PvP)
Akaviri Motif Pages (PvP)
Ravager and other PvP vendor gear. (PvP)
Battlegrounds gear (PvP)

...there is still more. Perhaps you haven't been looking hard enough?

Been picking up recipes for less than 100 gold - ones that I already had of course, but hey, at those prices I can't afford NOT to buy them. Only the really rare recipes make any money. So then I have to ask myself. If most of what I have to sell are common items that aren't worth very much, and aren't guaranteed to sell even at discount prices, how can I possibly justify paying some guild 5-10k every week just for the "great opportunity" of being able to sell junk that most people probably don't even want? Or even if they do want it, most people don't feel like running to 10 different cities and checking 50 different guild traders to see who has what and for how much.

If you don't have anything anyone wants, you do not need a trader. Period. This also means you either don't know the value of what you find, or aren't 160 and can't sell most of your drops or mats. In the former... get TTC/MM and fix that. The latter... get CP 160 and see money roll in.

I'm sorry, I know many of you love your whole "guild trader" system and you have a big list of reasons why global auction house = bad, niche hidden mom and pop stores that you have to travel 1000 miles to find = good... I'm all for small businesses and everything, but at what point do even small businesses end up being taken over by "little big guys"? You're all so worried about a "global economy" ruining your local economies, and yet the cutthroats among you are already ruining your local economy. It's become a system of "you have to have money to make money", and even then you won't make a dime if someone else has more money than you. Which is ironically NO DIFFERENT AT ALL FROM GAMES THAT HAVE GLOBAL AUCTION HOUSES. The only difference is that ESO's guild trader system is 100% pay to play, which actually hurts the poorest players far more than a global auction house ever could.

Anyway, that's my two cents (with taxes and fees, that comes to tree fitty). /rant now, so that all the trading guilds can return to their regularly scheduled programming of trying to convince the filthy nonbelievers that open global economies that allow everyone, rich or poor, to participate in, are EVIL!!!

It sounds like you want a no-effort system in place to sell crap, without realizing that a global AH will do the following:

1. Tank the prices for materials to virtually nothing (cutting severely into the "normal player's" income.
2. Inflate the prices of desirable things to ridiculous values (New motifs, rare weapon drops, gold AP gear)

Crafts_Many_Boxes

Jamini wrote: »

GreyWolf_79 wrote: »

LOL I've actually been wanting to join a trading guild to sell all of my excess recipes and motifs and such... but most trading guilds want 5-10k a week in membership dues, which is not surprising if the trading spots are actually going for millions.

5-10k is nothing. It's literally the gold from your daily pledges at CP160.

If you aren't past CP160 yet, then you don't have anything worth selling. (Unless you want to sell reagent stacks)

But after searching through some of the guild stores, I realize that very few items actually sell for that much.

[PC/NA]

Two stacks of Ancestor Silk. (Material Farming.)
One stack of raw ore. (Material farming)
Twenty Elegant Linings. Eight Grain Solvents. (Deconstruction from pledges)
Three Kuta. Two Tempering Alloys. Two Dreugh Wax. (Refining materials)
Two Celestial or Dro'Mathra style pages. (Normal Trials)
Half of a Yokudon Motif Page (Questing)
Ancient Orc, Malacath, Thieves guild motif pages.... and more... and more (Boss drops, chest drops, daily drops)
Half an hour of farming humanoid mobs. (Farming)
Any decent armor set piece (non-shoulder) in divines, infused, impen. Tank pieces in sturdy. (Doing anything in most zones.)
Most 6-Trait set pieces in purple, unenchanted. (10k per. 1.4 required for profit to exceed mat cost. Crafted)
A stack of Columbine, bugloss, Mountain Flowers, Lady Smock... honestly any alchemy mats that are not fleshfly, spider eggs, or scrib jelly. (Mat farming)
Perfect Roe (Fishing)
Commission for a crafted set. (Depends on what you charge. I normally charge 2k/piece for time with their mats for a 6-trait piece. 2k/piece+mat cost if my mats. Rare styles or higher trait pieces will have higher commission rates. Crafting)
Golden Gear (PvP)
Akaviri Motif Pages (PvP)
Ravager and other PvP vendor gear. (PvP)
Battlegrounds gear (PvP)

...there is still more. Perhaps you haven't been looking hard enough?

Been picking up recipes for less than 100 gold - ones that I already had of course, but hey, at those prices I can't afford NOT to buy them. Only the really rare recipes make any money. So then I have to ask myself. If most of what I have to sell are common items that aren't worth very much, and aren't guaranteed to sell even at discount prices, how can I possibly justify paying some guild 5-10k every week just for the "great opportunity" of being able to sell junk that most people probably don't even want? Or even if they do want it, most people don't feel like running to 10 different cities and checking 50 different guild traders to see who has what and for how much.

If you don't have anything anyone wants, you do not need a trader. Period. This also means you either don't know the value of what you find, or aren't 160 and can't sell most of your drops or mats. In the former... get TTC/MM and fix that. The latter... get CP 160 and see money roll in.

I'm sorry, I know many of you love your whole "guild trader" system and you have a big list of reasons why global auction house = bad, niche hidden mom and pop stores that you have to travel 1000 miles to find = good... I'm all for small businesses and everything, but at what point do even small businesses end up being taken over by "little big guys"? You're all so worried about a "global economy" ruining your local economies, and yet the cutthroats among you are already ruining your local economy. It's become a system of "you have to have money to make money", and even then you won't make a dime if someone else has more money than you. Which is ironically NO DIFFERENT AT ALL FROM GAMES THAT HAVE GLOBAL AUCTION HOUSES. The only difference is that ESO's guild trader system is 100% pay to play, which actually hurts the poorest players far more than a global auction house ever could.

Anyway, that's my two cents (with taxes and fees, that comes to tree fitty). /rant now, so that all the trading guilds can return to their regularly scheduled programming of trying to convince the filthy nonbelievers that open global economies that allow everyone, rich or poor, to participate in, are EVIL!!!

It sounds like you want a no-effort system in place to sell crap, without realizing that a global AH will do the following:

1. Tank the prices for materials to virtually nothing (cutting severely into the "normal player's" income.
2. Inflate the prices of desirable things to ridiculous values (New motifs, rare weapon drops, gold AP gear)

Mmmk.....what you're failing to realize here man, is that normal players do not even have an income, because they either don't want to deal with all the red tape that trade guilds bring, or they join a trade guild that gets 0 sales or often loses their trader anyway.

So yes, a no-effort system in place to sell crap would be better for 90% of the game's population, no matter how much prices tank. 500g a stack for raw materials is better than them sitting in your bank forever until you vendor them, because this is the reality for most of us. You and the other "serious traders" are just so opposed to this because it will greatly reduce your own income.

Sylosi

lordhakai wrote: »

It is an open market ...

Erm, an open market is based on free access and competition, the guild trade system has strictly limited access for sellers, obfuscates information to buyers and is closer to a cartel system, the idea that it is an open market is laughable.

AlnilamE

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

GreyWolf_79 wrote: »

LOL I've actually been wanting to join a trading guild to sell all of my excess recipes and motifs and such... but most trading guilds want 5-10k a week in membership dues, which is not surprising if the trading spots are actually going for millions.

5-10k is nothing. It's literally the gold from your daily pledges at CP160.

If you aren't past CP160 yet, then you don't have anything worth selling. (Unless you want to sell reagent stacks)

But after searching through some of the guild stores, I realize that very few items actually sell for that much.

[PC/NA]

Two stacks of Ancestor Silk. (Material Farming.)
One stack of raw ore. (Material farming)
Twenty Elegant Linings. Eight Grain Solvents. (Deconstruction from pledges)
Three Kuta. Two Tempering Alloys. Two Dreugh Wax. (Refining materials)
Two Celestial or Dro'Mathra style pages. (Normal Trials)
Half of a Yokudon Motif Page (Questing)
Ancient Orc, Malacath, Thieves guild motif pages.... and more... and more (Boss drops, chest drops, daily drops)
Half an hour of farming humanoid mobs. (Farming)
Any decent armor set piece (non-shoulder) in divines, infused, impen. Tank pieces in sturdy. (Doing anything in most zones.)
Most 6-Trait set pieces in purple, unenchanted. (10k per. 1.4 required for profit to exceed mat cost. Crafted)
A stack of Columbine, bugloss, Mountain Flowers, Lady Smock... honestly any alchemy mats that are not fleshfly, spider eggs, or scrib jelly. (Mat farming)
Perfect Roe (Fishing)
Commission for a crafted set. (Depends on what you charge. I normally charge 2k/piece for time with their mats for a 6-trait piece. 2k/piece+mat cost if my mats. Rare styles or higher trait pieces will have higher commission rates. Crafting)
Golden Gear (PvP)
Akaviri Motif Pages (PvP)
Ravager and other PvP vendor gear. (PvP)
Battlegrounds gear (PvP)

...there is still more. Perhaps you haven't been looking hard enough?

Been picking up recipes for less than 100 gold - ones that I already had of course, but hey, at those prices I can't afford NOT to buy them. Only the really rare recipes make any money. So then I have to ask myself. If most of what I have to sell are common items that aren't worth very much, and aren't guaranteed to sell even at discount prices, how can I possibly justify paying some guild 5-10k every week just for the "great opportunity" of being able to sell junk that most people probably don't even want? Or even if they do want it, most people don't feel like running to 10 different cities and checking 50 different guild traders to see who has what and for how much.

If you don't have anything anyone wants, you do not need a trader. Period. This also means you either don't know the value of what you find, or aren't 160 and can't sell most of your drops or mats. In the former... get TTC/MM and fix that. The latter... get CP 160 and see money roll in.

I'm sorry, I know many of you love your whole "guild trader" system and you have a big list of reasons why global auction house = bad, niche hidden mom and pop stores that you have to travel 1000 miles to find = good... I'm all for small businesses and everything, but at what point do even small businesses end up being taken over by "little big guys"? You're all so worried about a "global economy" ruining your local economies, and yet the cutthroats among you are already ruining your local economy. It's become a system of "you have to have money to make money", and even then you won't make a dime if someone else has more money than you. Which is ironically NO DIFFERENT AT ALL FROM GAMES THAT HAVE GLOBAL AUCTION HOUSES. The only difference is that ESO's guild trader system is 100% pay to play, which actually hurts the poorest players far more than a global auction house ever could.

Anyway, that's my two cents (with taxes and fees, that comes to tree fitty). /rant now, so that all the trading guilds can return to their regularly scheduled programming of trying to convince the filthy nonbelievers that open global economies that allow everyone, rich or poor, to participate in, are EVIL!!!

It sounds like you want a no-effort system in place to sell crap, without realizing that a global AH will do the following:

1. Tank the prices for materials to virtually nothing (cutting severely into the "normal player's" income.
2. Inflate the prices of desirable things to ridiculous values (New motifs, rare weapon drops, gold AP gear)

Mmmk.....what you're failing to realize here man, is that normal players do not even have an income, because they either don't want to deal with all the red tape that trade guilds bring, or they join a trade guild that gets 0 sales or often loses their trader anyway.

So yes, a no-effort system in place to sell crap would be better for 90% of the game's population, no matter how much prices tank. 500g a stack for raw materials is better than them sitting in your bank forever until you vendor them, because this is the reality for most of us. You and the other "serious traders" are just so opposed to this because it will greatly reduce your own income.

Normal players absolutely have an income because selling things to other players is just one of the many ways of making money in this game.

I made a new warden and she pretty much holds her own money that she gets from quest rewards and vendoring stuff. Even with deconstructing all her blues and purples for crafting XP, she's sitting on 60k after buying the first four sets of bag increases and working on her riding skill.

And this is a character I've been playing 3-6 hours a week. I'm not even trying to make money with her, just working on her skills.

jazsper77

As the AH topic I replied to last nite was deleted (moved)as I broke ranks as a GM and outlined the rampant corruption in the Guild Trading market. Most likely as it hit a nerve last nite with some people with pull on these boards.
Bottom line is on the PS4 NA we are at 14-22 dummy guilds a week in places such as Evermore,Alikr,Shornhelm,Skywatch,Stormhold etc. which now pushes these middle of the road Traders out to not so great spots for the same cost. It just inflates the bidding and ensures the Trading Mafia Alliance all get there weekly spot.
At trader flip in Wayrest a top 3 location guess what a dummy Trader..... At 8am this morning it had been flipped for a large profit. How do I know this , well I could have a alt acct that I use for the purpose of catching certain Guilds and sending the screenshots to ZOS .

GUESS WHATS HAPPENED WITH ALL THE 100's of screenshots I've sent ZOS nothing. Makes you wonder why doesn't it ? F Maybe certain employees run Guilds and maybe I have Screenshot proof of that also.

So every time a white knight(Guild GM/Office) rides to a AH/Trader thread to derail it , I will come in and Spread the actual reality.

Maybe I'll start a Reddit thread with all these Screenshots of Ps4 and PC crap I have sent ZOS. OUT some people who like to play dumb on these threads.

asa67dragoneb17_ESO

Guys, why " spot " is so important for you? it doesn`t matter where trader is, it`s about their prices. Yea I know, most people are lazy as bricks, and they dont want to " waste " 2 minutes to Alt+Tab, open TTC website and write item name, to see most cheapest price on the market and where that trader stands.
If you want those spots just to sell overpriced items for lazy people, just say it.
But srsly I`m in 2 small trade guilds, one of it loses his trader sometimes. But my weekly income is 50k-100k. And yes i`m far from c160 and I`m not doing fishing.

P.S. But yes, I understand that big guilds just move from the crossboard smaller ones, but that`s normal, isn`t it? Well, atleast it`s realistic. Not pleasant, but realistic.

MalagenR

I don't understand the difficulty. I joined "Aldmeri Nation" and "Back Alley Trader's" and they do very well. I pay 15k gold per week in dues and make significantly more than that and I play casually. I have one main character with most crafting skills maxed besides Blacksmithing. Why are you opposed from joining one of the big guilds? They always have spots and if you actually know how to sell your goods it's very easy to make very good gold. I love the way the trading system works in this game, it rewards the folks who actually understand how to sell items.

dodgehopper_ESO

I've come to realize I do not like the guild location bidding. It has promoted a stupid system of raffles which in turn has seen theft by players in a guild and destroyed a once strong trading guild I was member of. This is of course ancient history now but the reality is I find the system deplorable. I would much rather a more open system. I realize they wish to create a means of pulling gold out of the system but they have quite a few means for them to do this, including but not limited to these weekly housing material sales. I'd like to also note that these sales are often for items with very little utility. Maybe they need to consider adding a little more functionality to homes and perhaps even offering a way of setting not only a primary house, but also a guild house so that guild leaders can promote their home as a guild store? Something needs to change at any regard and I find the system annoying at best. I'm not suggesting we need one unified guild trader, but as I've stated many times I seriously wish they would look to the good elements of the SWG crafting and trade system and the good elements of DCUO's active combat system. I personally feel if they would do these two things this game would truly be unstoppable for a decade and would stomp out a lot of competition.

Montayva

MalagenR wrote: »

I don't understand the difficulty. I joined "Aldmeri Nation" and "Back Alley Trader's" and they do very well. I pay 15k gold per week in dues and make significantly more than that and I play casually. I have one main character with most crafting skills maxed besides Blacksmithing. Why are you opposed from joining one of the big guilds? They always have spots and if you actually know how to sell your goods it's very easy to make very good gold. I love the way the trading system works in this game, it rewards the folks who actually understand how to sell items.

Our guild has been around since september of the first year of launch. While we are big in number, most of our members are casual and can't afford things like a 15k a week fee. Previously we have had no trouble raising enough funds via a weekly raffle to be able to place a bid on a decent location. Now the prices of those locations have increased phenomenally but our member base is the same. The 'bigger' more serious trade guilds won't accommodate a lot of our players who aren't serious traders and won't make quotas. The current trading meta seems to be you either have to be very serious about it or not bother at all. There is no in between for the little guys and it's extremely hard for casual players to find a place if trading isn't their main aim of the game

Cpt_Teemo

drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I've been saying this ever since I started playing, but the guild trader system is terrible. It creates nightmare scenarios like this and creates huge entry barriers for new players. And if you're a casual player? Forget ever selling any of your items lol. How is this a healthy system?

I've also said this before, but I'd rather have a dumpster fire of an economy that is all-inclusive (global or even regional AH) than the elite boys' club that we have now.

Honestly, I'd like to see a compromise -- either an alliance based AH or regional based AH or zone based AH. Not a global AH.

Yeah someway to get the rest of the game in on the trading aspect of the game, Alliance AH's would suffice 30 items per account and don't have to be in a guild to list, so those with guilds already can list there as well as others. Also allow the alliance AH's to display all items being sold on all traders in that region as well.

asa67dragoneb17_ESO

Montayva wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

I don't understand the difficulty. I joined "Aldmeri Nation" and "Back Alley Trader's" and they do very well. I pay 15k gold per week in dues and make significantly more than that and I play casually. I have one main character with most crafting skills maxed besides Blacksmithing. Why are you opposed from joining one of the big guilds? They always have spots and if you actually know how to sell your goods it's very easy to make very good gold. I love the way the trading system works in this game, it rewards the folks who actually understand how to sell items.

Our guild has been around since september of the first year of launch. While we are big in number, most of our members are casual and can't afford things like a 15k a week fee. Previously we have had no trouble raising enough funds via a weekly raffle to be able to place a bid on a decent location. Now the prices of those locations have increased phenomenally but our member base is the same. The 'bigger' more serious trade guilds won't accommodate a lot of our players who aren't serious traders and won't make quotas. The current trading meta seems to be you either have to be very serious about it or not bother at all. There is no in between for the little guys and it's extremely hard for casual players to find a place if trading isn't their main aim of the game

I have no idea how you come to that. But like I said before, i`m not c160. I just running and doing quests, taking all mats on my way, searching all boxes and etc, deconstructing every single gear I find and just selling all of this on guild store. 50k in a week isn`t even a problem to get >.>

P.S. My trade guilds are small enough. But even with them i`m doing money, witch isn`t too hard.
First guild asks for 3k sells in a week or 1k donation, if you didn`t do 3k sells in a week.
Second doesn`t ask for anything.

Artis

Losing a trader on Bleakrock could be just bad luck. Keep up your work. After Morrowind release the system lost its stability and is still seeking the equilibrium point. There are plenty of other traders that might be cheap - hew's bane, gold coast, single traders on the roads and in other starter zones.

Montayva wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

I don't understand the difficulty. I joined "Aldmeri Nation" and "Back Alley Trader's" and they do very well. I pay 15k gold per week in dues and make significantly more than that and I play casually. I have one main character with most crafting skills maxed besides Blacksmithing. Why are you opposed from joining one of the big guilds? They always have spots and if you actually know how to sell your goods it's very easy to make very good gold. I love the way the trading system works in this game, it rewards the folks who actually understand how to sell items.

Our guild has been around since september of the first year of launch. While we are big in number, most of our members are casual and can't afford things like a 15k a week fee. Previously we have had no trouble raising enough funds via a weekly raffle to be able to place a bid on a decent location. Now the prices of those locations have increased phenomenally but our member base is the same. The 'bigger' more serious trade guilds won't accommodate a lot of our players who aren't serious traders and won't make quotas. The current trading meta seems to be you either have to be very serious about it or not bother at all. There is no in between for the little guys and it's extremely hard for casual players to find a place if trading isn't their main aim of the game

Well, meta is meta. Let's be honest, you wouldn't let others kill you in PvP just so they can have fun, too. And competing for a trader IS pvp on a different scale. Just like in pvp whoever manages resources the best will win the fight, here it's the same thing - if you want to win a trader you need to manage your human resources and gold.

If you just try to maintain things how they were in the past.. It's as if I was expecting my old pvp build and skill to work while other players are getting better builds and learn to play better. In your case, though, I'm sure you can find a trader, it's too early to give up!

Also, there's something in between for casual players. Once they collect a lot of items, they can join a guild, list them, sell them, then leave. I saw some people having trading sessions like that.

And by the way, why do you say 15k a week fee? That's a fee for top traders. For something small 500-1000 gold a week is more than enough. And how casual are you players exactly that they don't have that much gold? I mean, it's 2 quests at cp160+ or about 5 packs of mobs in a public dungeon (and I did go and check it before posting!). It takes literally a few minutes to get 500-1000 gold. Almost forgot stealing - another way to make that gold quick.

Megabear

This one of the ways in which ZOS controls the cash flow. All that botter farmed gold needs to exit the system somehow.

xerikos

Two questions for the people discussing this topic:

1) Why all those feelings against a global AH when there's an addon such as TTC every one is praising so much? Hasn't TTC created some sort of global AH? Yes, guilds still have to pay for the trader, players still have to pay quotas, and buyers still have to take the trip to individual traders, but aren't TTC users doing their searchers in a single portal?

2) Why people keep saying things like ZOS keeps adding more spots for traders whenever they add a new region, and hope they keep doing that so more groups could have a chance to get a spot, if then there comes a "guild alliance", which is basically one guild with a different name, getting those spots and monopolizing the whole zone anyway?

disintegr8

Blanco wrote: »

This is actually a good thing. The higher the price traders go for the better.

The more competitive trader spots get, the better the guild stores that inevitably make it in. The guilds will be put under increasing pressure to sell more (good for the economy).

Not sure how this is a good for the economy. If out of the way places cost more but do not come with an increase in sales, how can the guilds keep earning enough to win bids?

I am in a couple of guilds and have never been involved in running any, but one of my guilds only ever gets an out of the way trader and stock barely moves. I have been selling a particular recipe for 50k, moving 1 per day in one guild, while 1 sat in the smaller guild store until it expired. I received a PSN message from someone a couple of days before it expired, offering me 20k for it.

My point being, just because a guild can only afford an out of the way trader, their members should not be forced to sell for less. If the only way to increase sales is to cut your prices, then members earn less income and are less willing to donate funds to the guild.

Any benefit to the consumer is possibly only short term, until the larger 'multinationals' who collude and take up all the traders suddenly start stipulating the prices that you will all pay for goods (not me, I'll still be selling).

Montayva

Artis wrote: »

Losing a trader on Bleakrock could be just bad luck. Keep up your work. After Morrowind release the system lost its stability and is still seeking the equilibrium point. There are plenty of other traders that might be cheap - hew's bane, gold coast, single traders on the roads and in other starter zones.

Montayva wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

I don't understand the difficulty. I joined "Aldmeri Nation" and "Back Alley Trader's" and they do very well. I pay 15k gold per week in dues and make significantly more than that and I play casually. I have one main character with most crafting skills maxed besides Blacksmithing. Why are you opposed from joining one of the big guilds? They always have spots and if you actually know how to sell your goods it's very easy to make very good gold. I love the way the trading system works in this game, it rewards the folks who actually understand how to sell items.

Our guild has been around since september of the first year of launch. While we are big in number, most of our members are casual and can't afford things like a 15k a week fee. Previously we have had no trouble raising enough funds via a weekly raffle to be able to place a bid on a decent location. Now the prices of those locations have increased phenomenally but our member base is the same. The 'bigger' more serious trade guilds won't accommodate a lot of our players who aren't serious traders and won't make quotas. The current trading meta seems to be you either have to be very serious about it or not bother at all. There is no in between for the little guys and it's extremely hard for casual players to find a place if trading isn't their main aim of the game

Well, meta is meta. Let's be honest, you wouldn't let others kill you in PvP just so they can have fun, too. And competing for a trader IS pvp on a different scale. Just like in pvp whoever manages resources the best will win the fight, here it's the same thing - if you want to win a trader you need to manage your human resources and gold.

If you just try to maintain things how they were in the past.. It's as if I was expecting my old pvp build and skill to work while other players are getting better builds and learn to play better. In your case, though, I'm sure you can find a trader, it's too early to give up!

Also, there's something in between for casual players. Once they collect a lot of items, they can join a guild, list them, sell them, then leave. I saw some people having trading sessions like that.

And by the way, why do you say 15k a week fee? That's a fee for top traders. For something small 500-1000 gold a week is more than enough. And how casual are you players exactly that they don't have that much gold? I mean, it's 2 quests at cp160+ or about 5 packs of mobs in a public dungeon (and I did go and check it before posting!). It takes literally a few minutes to get 500-1000 gold. Almost forgot stealing - another way to make that gold quick.

I say 15k because someone said that's the fee they pay each week and are happy to do it because they make it back easily. Well, making that back can be harder in an out of the way location. And while we try our hardest to educate all our new guildies on many different ways that they can make gold, it's not always as easy for some as we expect it. Like casuals for example - who are saving their mats to make gear when the rest of us already have gear and are selling our overstock (just one example out of many)

And I'm not saying that we are trying to maintain things as they were in the past. Just asking the question of how is paying 300k+ a week for a trader that barely sells ten items an hour (and mostly green cheap recipes and such) viable for any guild?

StormWylf

JKorr wrote: »

If the system is so bad it implodes, then ZOS will have no choice but to alter the system...

I have previously stated my strong opposition to the AH system in ESO. But this argument has been happening since the game released and ZOS has shown zero interest in changing it. So I only disagree JKorr to the extent that you believe "ZOS will have no choice but to alter the system".

StormWylf

jazsper77 wrote: »

As the AH topic I replied to last nite was deleted (moved)as I broke ranks as a GM and outlined the rampant corruption in the Guild Trading market. Most likely as it hit a nerve last nite with some people with pull on these boards.

Is this the thread you are referencing.

Artis

Montayva wrote: »

And I'm not saying that we are trying to maintain things as they were in the past. Just asking the question of how is paying 300k+ a week for a trader that barely sells ten items an hour (and mostly green cheap recipes and such) viable for any guild?

It's not viable for those guilds, that's why if they do it - they lose gold and stop doing it. The system sort of regulates itself. That being said, if you're selling something in demand for good price - you can make way more than 15k even on those out of the way trader. E.g. people who buy raw mats to refine and resell will check every trader and will buy everything listed at a price that still makes it cheaper than gold mat price times the drop rate.

lasertooth

I'm on xbox/NA.

As a lowly guild member in two prime location trading guilds, I pay 10k+ a week in dues each. This seems to be pretty standard nowadays as far as dues go. I used to pay 3-5k to be in a trading guild in the same locations and back then I'm pretty sure less than 50% of the players actually paid.

I never used to care about making gold in the game; I'm easygoing and play ESO to waste my time/unwind from a stressful job and have fun. I'm happy in purple gear/non BiS stuff; getting smacked in a 3v1 doesn't hurt my ego, and half the time in pvp I'm eating cheetos and not paying attention lol. So having more than 100k in my bank was not something I ever cared about. A couple months ago I feel like a housing interest boom happened. After visiting my friends houses and seeing how awesome they were, I jumped on the housing train and bought my first house.

All of a sudden I wanted things in the game. Purple housing recipes were 30-60k, blue housing plans were 5-30k. I wanted them all. Furniture mats didn't drop like they do now, I was paying 75k for a stack of 200 heartwood. I was motivated make in game gold like never before. I went from spending 5-10k a week tops to making AND spending over 50-100k a day. I farmed for everything. I tried everything. The fastest way to make money in the game is to utilize the guild traders. I farm for furniture plans and bis gear. I keep two guild traders maxed out 30/30 items at all times. I wake up 30m earlier on workdays so I have time to login and replace items that sold overnight.

For the past 2 months, instead of pvping, I have spent a good portion of my day going around to traders buying things and flipping them. I shop Smart....S-Smart. Most of my friends have all done the same--like me, they've spent well over a million gold on furniture. That wayrest statue? 75k. Molag bal statue? 100k. Some silly hanging wedding lantern? 2.5k...but I wanted-- no I neeeeeeded--at least 30 of them. Omg. 16 rakeipas to make a purple khajhit sconce? I bought them from players that had stacks and stacks just sitting in their crafting bag.

At 455pm in the general foods store in cold harbor you will easily find 30+ players just sitting there, eagerly waiting for the luxury vendor to show up at 5p. None of that stuff is cheap. People who missed the luxury vendor over the weekend will pay double the original cost just to get those items, if it's something they like/want. I bought an extra gold dwemer fountain for 53k on Friday and listed it on Tuesday for 100k. It sold within 2 hours.

So at least on the Xbox, I think the housing has impacted the eso trading economy in a good way. Players like me are buying achievement housing stuff with gold. In order to do this, we are buying/selling/trading in the gear/mats market, etc etc. That necro staff I farmed for and got? I didn't want it, so I sold it. I used that gold to buy furniture mats. Players not interested in housing were selling stacks of pitch and furniture plans and players like me were buying them up. It's a beautiful thing, really.

PS my house is bomb...time and [gold] well spent. And I like my purple seducers set just fine.

*edited to fix an autocorrect error*

MalagenR

Sylosi wrote: »

lordhakai wrote: »

It is an open market ...

Erm, an open market is based on free access and competition, the guild trade system has strictly limited access for sellers, obfuscates information to buyers and is closer to a cartel system, the idea that it is an open market is laughable.

Montayva wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

I don't understand the difficulty. I joined "Aldmeri Nation" and "Back Alley Trader's" and they do very well. I pay 15k gold per week in dues and make significantly more than that and I play casually. I have one main character with most crafting skills maxed besides Blacksmithing. Why are you opposed from joining one of the big guilds? They always have spots and if you actually know how to sell your goods it's very easy to make very good gold. I love the way the trading system works in this game, it rewards the folks who actually understand how to sell items.

Our guild has been around since september of the first year of launch. While we are big in number, most of our members are casual and can't afford things like a 15k a week fee. Previously we have had no trouble raising enough funds via a weekly raffle to be able to place a bid on a decent location. Now the prices of those locations have increased phenomenally but our member base is the same. The 'bigger' more serious trade guilds won't accommodate a lot of our players who aren't serious traders and won't make quotas. The current trading meta seems to be you either have to be very serious about it or not bother at all. There is no in between for the little guys and it's extremely hard for casual players to find a place if trading isn't their main aim of the game

If you're to casual to trade seriously then you shouldn't be running a trading guild. All that's happening based on your post is that your trading guild isn't keeping the most active traders in it, which means your shop would be empty if you owned the trader, which means you don't deserve the trader. It's really that simple. If your guild members are unable to pay the dues and stock the store then why do you want a trader? Just to have one and call yourself a trading guild?

Thrudra_Magia

Blanco wrote: »

This is actually a good thing. The higher the price traders go for the better.

The more competitive trader spots get, the better the guild stores that inevitably make it in. The guilds will be put under increasing pressure to sell more (good for the economy).

We need a thumbs down icon for posts like these which make absolutely no sense.

Megabear

Current AH system just sucks.

Artis

jhodges89b14_ESO wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

This is actually a good thing. The higher the price traders go for the better.

The more competitive trader spots get, the better the guild stores that inevitably make it in. The guilds will be put under increasing pressure to sell more (good for the economy).

We need a thumbs down icon for posts like these which make absolutely no sense.

How does it make no sense? That post is actually just stating the truth - on a level of economics laws, supply-demand and all that.

Ideally, in the long term perspective, only top 175 or whatever guilds will have traders. As the time goes on, those spots are getting filled by guilds that can raise more gold than others. Sure, there are still lots of empty stores which means the number of trader NPCs is gauged well and smaller guilds can still get a spot. As far as I know, there are still traders that go for 5 and low 6 digits.

Montayva

MalagenR wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

lordhakai wrote: »

It is an open market ...

Erm, an open market is based on free access and competition, the guild trade system has strictly limited access for sellers, obfuscates information to buyers and is closer to a cartel system, the idea that it is an open market is laughable.

Montayva wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

I don't understand the difficulty. I joined "Aldmeri Nation" and "Back Alley Trader's" and they do very well. I pay 15k gold per week in dues and make significantly more than that and I play casually. I have one main character with most crafting skills maxed besides Blacksmithing. Why are you opposed from joining one of the big guilds? They always have spots and if you actually know how to sell your goods it's very easy to make very good gold. I love the way the trading system works in this game, it rewards the folks who actually understand how to sell items.

Our guild has been around since september of the first year of launch. While we are big in number, most of our members are casual and can't afford things like a 15k a week fee. Previously we have had no trouble raising enough funds via a weekly raffle to be able to place a bid on a decent location. Now the prices of those locations have increased phenomenally but our member base is the same. The 'bigger' more serious trade guilds won't accommodate a lot of our players who aren't serious traders and won't make quotas. The current trading meta seems to be you either have to be very serious about it or not bother at all. There is no in between for the little guys and it's extremely hard for casual players to find a place if trading isn't their main aim of the game

If you're to casual to trade seriously then you shouldn't be running a trading guild. All that's happening based on your post is that your trading guild isn't keeping the most active traders in it, which means your shop would be empty if you owned the trader, which means you don't deserve the trader. It's really that simple. If your guild members are unable to pay the dues and stock the store then why do you want a trader? Just to have one and call yourself a trading guild?

its not about being 'casual'. Not everyone in the game can meet the requirements of the larger, more serious guilds. Should those people just not bother at all? Is this a case of "You have to be seriously into trading or dont bother at all?" Perhaps everyone just misinterprets things when I say "casual". We work hard on educating our guildies on how to make gold and make the most of their time in game. People who would otherwise not even bother to try because the requirements of larger guilds seem too daunting and unobtainable. Yes, most of these people do eventually move on to larger guilds once they have the game and playing the market figured out. We all start somewhere. And as a game that is constantly receiving new players we are more than happy to help them get on their feet.

Also I can assure you our shop is far from empty. Though all your assumptions are rather amusing. You seem like the kind of person who would rather just assume the worst of everyone and everything. I never said I myself or my officers were casual to Trade. And like I said, our guildies can afford to support via raffle ect. But what everyone seems to keep avoiding is the point I am trying to make.


What is the point of paying huge amounts on a Trader in the middle of nowhere that receives very minimal traffic and makes no sales?

lordhakai

Montayva wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

lordhakai wrote: »

It is an open market ...

Erm, an open market is based on free access and competition, the guild trade system has strictly limited access for sellers, obfuscates information to buyers and is closer to a cartel system, the idea that it is an open market is laughable.

Montayva wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

I don't understand the difficulty. I joined "Aldmeri Nation" and "Back Alley Trader's" and they do very well. I pay 15k gold per week in dues and make significantly more than that and I play casually. I have one main character with most crafting skills maxed besides Blacksmithing. Why are you opposed from joining one of the big guilds? They always have spots and if you actually know how to sell your goods it's very easy to make very good gold. I love the way the trading system works in this game, it rewards the folks who actually understand how to sell items.

Our guild has been around since september of the first year of launch. While we are big in number, most of our members are casual and can't afford things like a 15k a week fee. Previously we have had no trouble raising enough funds via a weekly raffle to be able to place a bid on a decent location. Now the prices of those locations have increased phenomenally but our member base is the same. The 'bigger' more serious trade guilds won't accommodate a lot of our players who aren't serious traders and won't make quotas. The current trading meta seems to be you either have to be very serious about it or not bother at all. There is no in between for the little guys and it's extremely hard for casual players to find a place if trading isn't their main aim of the game

If you're to casual to trade seriously then you shouldn't be running a trading guild. All that's happening based on your post is that your trading guild isn't keeping the most active traders in it, which means your shop would be empty if you owned the trader, which means you don't deserve the trader. It's really that simple. If your guild members are unable to pay the dues and stock the store then why do you want a trader? Just to have one and call yourself a trading guild?

its not about being 'casual'. Not everyone in the game can meet the requirements of the larger, more serious guilds. Should those people just not bother at all? Is this a case of "You have to be seriously into trading or dont bother at all?" Perhaps everyone just misinterprets things when I say "casual". We work hard on educating our guildies on how to make gold and make the most of their time in game. People who would otherwise not even bother to try because the requirements of larger guilds seem too daunting and unobtainable. Yes, most of these people do eventually move on to larger guilds once they have the game and playing the market figured out. We all start somewhere. And as a game that is constantly receiving new players we are more than happy to help them get on their feet.

Also I can assure you our shop is far from empty. Though all your assumptions are rather amusing. You seem like the kind of person who would rather just assume the worst of everyone and everything. I never said I myself or my officers were casual to Trade. And like I said, our guildies can afford to support via raffle ect. But what everyone seems to keep avoiding is the point I am trying to make.


What is the point of paying huge amounts on a Trader in the middle of nowhere that receives very minimal traffic and makes no sales?

You dont have to be super serious to be a great trader. I am a GM of a trade guild and not everyone is selling over 100k. While I would love if everyone did it comes down to expereince with the market the more you know about how to price things and what items sell best in certain traders it will be easier to make loads of money without trying. I have people that make 300k and they only play a couple hours a day.


If you are not making the money or if you cannot meet min sales requirements for guilds there is always the option to sell in zone. THe point of trade guilds is make money if you are not intersted in that join another type of guild such as pvp/pve/trials.