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Bidding day - A Trade GMs worst Nightmare
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failkiwib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »fastolfv_ESO wrote: »tamriel trade center probly has a huge impact on this, you no longer need the high traffic areas when ppl pull up the entire games listen items and then go to your location, so larger guilds pick crummy spots to save money and overbid which puts the pressure on the smaller guilds in the locations nobody wanted before
Most people don't use TTC. And they typically don't pull up TTC when looking for mundane things like mats.
I play on PC/EU where most people don't know about TTC. Not even the power sellers lol I can only assume that TTC is extremely useful for Console users, because they don't have access to MasterMerchant and AwesomeGuildstore addon.
Consoles can't even use TTC since they don't have access to mods.
@Kyle1983b14_ESO there is pricing information on the website that console players can use. There are also other websites for this purpose.
Console prices are just a tad bit different, otherwise it's a good guide to see trends of what sells and don't sell, what items that are worthless and what items are worth checking out before setting a price.0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »
Well, keep being in guilds with no requirements, I guess? It's your choice not to do anything, not invest to sell better. And then you expect to sell as much as people who actually put effort? Or are you saying that people who enjoy trading shouldn't have their effort rewarded? Then, I get it, you wouldn't mind if all the rewards you get in PvE - gear, titles, achievements, etc. - would be just handed out to everyone who wants them? Then I doubt that you're an old school pver, sorry.
My point is that, in other games, you don't need to jump through all of these hoops just to sell things. Selling your drops that you don't want should not be it's own minigame, because everything costs gold. If there were "fun bucks" that had no bearing on pvp or pve or anything, then by all means let's have this super in-depth trading system that requires huge amounts of time and attention. But that's not the case.
The fact that the same gold used to buy things I actually need for PvE is your currency for your "branch" of the game means that there needs to be some sort of compromise. It can't be all about your group, which right now it really is.
Inversely, endgame PvE provides nothing useful to traders, since all drops beyond public dungeons are bound (which they should be). We need your gold and the items you trade in, and you need nothing from our "side" of the game. In other games, raid content will also drop crafting materials so that traders have a vested interest as well, and "pure" pvers have some sort of income while still doing what they love with most of their free time. Maybe that's the long-term compromise, I dunno.
(and if trials actually do drop things traders can use, I apologize - I'm still working my way through vets and not there yet, but I feel like I would have read about / heard this somewhere)
There are other games for those who want other things, I agree.
Selling your drops is easy. If you get just a few - sell them in chat, if you get a lot - join a guild and you'll have no trouble meeting any requirements. It's your choice. You can also choose to sell your loot to a vendor.
There are no hoops, I'm not sure what you are talking about. Just join a guild and deposit a part of your income. Do you just not like the idea of having to manually give away your gold? Then ask for ZOS to let guild masters set the tax rate or increase the guild cut, not to change the system completely to AH.
The currency is the same and it's not a bad thing. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense tbh.
Now, the last paragraph is very reasonable. I can agree with this point. It's not entirely true, but it's not wrong at all. And no need to apologize, we all started at some point. So yeah, that is something that can be improved. PvErs do have stuff to make gold, but you're right - it could be more obvious and better. Things you can sell - laurel and mercenary motifs(cheap), decon loot and sell mats once you saved up enough (most loot is useless otherwise anyway), if you run trials - bosses drop items that can be vendored for 1k each,. so you make 12-15k gold per vet trial run.
All this + some dailies here and there which most pvers do is enough to support your play style. All you really need that can be bought is food and potions. Now, if you want expensive stuff like houses etc, then you aren't just a pver and should understand that you need to play other aspects of the game. Just like people who only trade and decorate their houses will never get BoP gear.
I really don't understand why you all had to kill the thread. It will be closed as it should now. And I was hoping to read and talk about guilds, bidding strategies, etc. Is there any place we can have to discuss that without all this crying? You have a bunch of threads every weak to complain, and I don't go there discussing how much it costs to hire a trader.1 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »
Well, keep being in guilds with no requirements, I guess? It's your choice not to do anything, not invest to sell better. And then you expect to sell as much as people who actually put effort? Or are you saying that people who enjoy trading shouldn't have their effort rewarded? Then, I get it, you wouldn't mind if all the rewards you get in PvE - gear, titles, achievements, etc. - would be just handed out to everyone who wants them? Then I doubt that you're an old school pver, sorry.
My point is that, in other games, you don't need to jump through all of these hoops just to sell things. Selling your drops that you don't want should not be it's own minigame, because everything costs gold. If there were "fun bucks" that had no bearing on pvp or pve or anything, then by all means let's have this super in-depth trading system that requires huge amounts of time and attention. But that's not the case.
The fact that the same gold used to buy things I actually need for PvE is your currency for your "branch" of the game means that there needs to be some sort of compromise. It can't be all about your group, which right now it really is.
Inversely, endgame PvE provides nothing useful to traders, since all drops beyond public dungeons are bound (which they should be). We need your gold and the items you trade in, and you need nothing from our "side" of the game. In other games, raid content will also drop crafting materials so that traders have a vested interest as well, and "pure" pvers have some sort of income while still doing what they love with most of their free time. Maybe that's the long-term compromise, I dunno.
(and if trials actually do drop things traders can use, I apologize - I'm still working my way through vets and not there yet, but I feel like I would have read about / heard this somewhere)
There are other games for those who want other things, I agree.
Selling your drops is easy. If you get just a few - sell them in chat, if you get a lot - join a guild and you'll have no trouble meeting any requirements. It's your choice. You can also choose to sell your loot to a vendor.
There are no hoops, I'm not sure what you are talking about. Just join a guild and deposit a part of your income. Do you just not like the idea of having to manually give away your gold? Then ask for ZOS to let guild masters set the tax rate or increase the guild cut, not to change the system completely to AH.
The currency is the same and it's not a bad thing. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense tbh.
Now, the last paragraph is very reasonable. I can agree with this point. It's not entirely true, but it's not wrong at all. And no need to apologize, we all started at some point. So yeah, that is something that can be improved. PvErs do have stuff to make gold, but you're right - it could be more obvious and better. Things you can sell - laurel and mercenary motifs(cheap), decon loot and sell mats once you saved up enough (most loot is useless otherwise anyway), if you run trials - bosses drop items that can be vendored for 1k each,. so you make 12-15k gold per vet trial run.
All this + some dailies here and there which most pvers do is enough to support your play style. All you really need that can be bought is food and potions. Now, if you want expensive stuff like houses etc, then you aren't just a pver and should understand that you need to play other aspects of the game. Just like people who only trade and decorate their houses will never get BoP gear.
I really don't understand why you all had to kill the thread. It will be closed as it should now. And I was hoping to read and talk about guilds, bidding strategies, etc. Is there any place we can have to discuss that without all this crying? You have a bunch of threads every weak to complain, and I don't go there discussing how much it costs to hire a trader.
There will not be bidding strategies once the next update hits, because spies will not be able to monitor the guild bank balance.Xbox NA1 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭cyclonus11 wrote: »
Those guilds are bidding 15 million plus at least every week
Yeah they really just need to install some local traders in each main hub for anyone in or not in guilds to list 30 items a month just like a guild store to atleast have some way in on the market1 -
lordhakai✭✭✭Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »cyclonus11 wrote: »
Those guilds are bidding 15 million plus at least every week
Yeah they really just need to install some local traders in each main hub for anyone in or not in guilds to list 30 items a month just like a guild store to atleast have some way in on the market
While your idea has merits. I do not beleive this will ever happen no matter how many threads are started in support of this change.0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »cyclonus11 wrote: »
Those guilds are bidding 15 million plus at least every week
Yeah they really just need to install some local traders in each main hub for anyone in or not in guilds to list 30 items a month just like a guild store to atleast have some way in on the market
Absolutely not. Even 1 item could be too many. It's a megaserver. If a couple thousand people list 30 items each, then suddenly there's no point in checking guild traders. Not to mention that all common items will become dirt cheap and rare items way too expensive.0 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »cyclonus11 wrote: »
Those guilds are bidding 15 million plus at least every week
Yeah they really just need to install some local traders in each main hub for anyone in or not in guilds to list 30 items a month just like a guild store to atleast have some way in on the market
Absolutely not. Even 1 item could be too many. It's a megaserver. If a couple thousand people list 30 items each, then suddenly there's no point in checking guild traders. Not to mention that all common items will become dirt cheap and rare items way too expensive.
First, they need to do more to categorize items. Raw fish and runeboxes are still uncategorized, forcing you to slog through an 'all items' search to find them.
Then, they could do a local public merchant where people get just 5 slots.
Suddenly all the farmers would be able to list their wares, and rare items wouldn't be so rare.Xbox NA0 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »fastolfv_ESO wrote: »tamriel trade center probly has a huge impact on this, you no longer need the high traffic areas when ppl pull up the entire games listen items and then go to your location, so larger guilds pick crummy spots to save money and overbid which puts the pressure on the smaller guilds in the locations nobody wanted before
Most people don't use TTC. And they typically don't pull up TTC when looking for mundane things like mats.
I play on PC/EU where most people don't know about TTC. Not even the power sellers lol I can only assume that TTC is extremely useful for Console users, because they don't have access to MasterMerchant and AwesomeGuildstore addon.
Consoles can't even use TTC since they don't have access to mods.
@Kyle1983b14_ESO there is pricing information on the website that console players can use. There are also other websites for this purpose.
Console prices are just a tad bit different, otherwise it's a good guide to see trends of what sells and don't sell, what items that are worthless and what items are worth checking out before setting a price.
The fact that you have to visit a third party resource just to have any real use out of this system is proof enough that it's terrible.7 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »fastolfv_ESO wrote: »tamriel trade center probly has a huge impact on this, you no longer need the high traffic areas when ppl pull up the entire games listen items and then go to your location, so larger guilds pick crummy spots to save money and overbid which puts the pressure on the smaller guilds in the locations nobody wanted before
Most people don't use TTC. And they typically don't pull up TTC when looking for mundane things like mats.
I play on PC/EU where most people don't know about TTC. Not even the power sellers lol I can only assume that TTC is extremely useful for Console users, because they don't have access to MasterMerchant and AwesomeGuildstore addon.
Consoles can't even use TTC since they don't have access to mods.
@Kyle1983b14_ESO there is pricing information on the website that console players can use. There are also other websites for this purpose.
Console prices are just a tad bit different, otherwise it's a good guide to see trends of what sells and don't sell, what items that are worthless and what items are worth checking out before setting a price.
The fact that you have to visit a third party resource just to have any real use out of this system is proof enough that it's terrible.
Agreed ^3 -
aaisoaho✭✭✭✭✭As a casual trader, I do enjoy this system and the complexity it offers. You can hunt for bargains or settle for main trading cities.
When I play regularly, I join a trading guild in a main-trading city and farm mats 1-2 times a week - rest of the time I spend doing things I truly like. This way, I make something like 200k gold per week. And well, matfarming does not require brains so I can do something else at the same time (read etc.).
Now there's also times when I can play irregularly - I spend most of my time doing things I like and maybe, just maybe farm some mats to sell in the future - so when I get back in to trading, I get gold to begin with.
No, I don't try to sell some junk like basic motifs (bosmer etc.), green recipes and furnishing plans or off-trait/off-set items. Basically all the uncommon items that sells less than 500g a piece.
EDIT: I feel like this current system rewards you if you spend your time and gold learning, exploring and playing the current trade system.Edited by aaisoaho on July 14, 2017 4:45PM3 -
lasertooth✭✭✭✭✭As a casual trader, I do enjoy this system and the complexity it offers. You can hunt for bargains or settle for main trading cities.....
.....EDIT: I feel like this current system rewards you if you spend your time and gold learning, exploring and playing the current trade system.
I feel the same way. Sometimes I spend an entire day just shopping and exploring random traders looking for good deals. I found a guy at some random trader selling a 187 pitch for 500g. And 35 mastic for 1k. This was at a time when pitch was going for 300g each and mastic 1.5k each. The listing was 3 days old. It was awesome.Lasertooth
GM of ESO Grand Designs, Grand Designs Too, and Grand Designs Trinity
Xbox/NA2 -
CastaLyron✭✭Although the system has good points and bad, I think it serves one fundamentally important part in the economy.
All the players in the game essentially make a lot of gold from "nothing", quest rewards, drops etc. The total in game gold accumulates a lot for every day passed. If left unchecked the inflation would become huge, since everyone gets more and more gold, gold would be worth less over time.
By making a gold sink in guild traders, you ensure that money disappears from the game again to make an outlet valve to the inflation and keeping gold value more in check. Since guild trader price is to the highest bidder, you also ensure that the actual value of gold for the players pay a part in how much you need to pay, thereby letting the mechanic adjust the Eso economy in total by the players themselves, although most players would not be aware of the fact.1 -
NinthPrince64✭✭✭NA PS4: Shornhelm guild trader down the stairs to the right completely empty after the auction resolved.0
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Montayva✭✭✭✭CastaLyron wrote: »Although the system has good points and bad, I think it serves one fundamentally important part in the economy.
All the players in the game essentially make a lot of gold from "nothing", quest rewards, drops etc. The total in game gold accumulates a lot for every day passed. If left unchecked the inflation would become huge, since everyone gets more and more gold, gold would be worth less over time.
By making a gold sink in guild traders, you ensure that money disappears from the game again to make an outlet valve to the inflation and keeping gold value more in check. Since guild trader price is to the highest bidder, you also ensure that the actual value of gold for the players pay a part in how much you need to pay, thereby letting the mechanic adjust the Eso economy in total by the players themselves, although most players would not be aware of the fact.
I understand perfectly the need for this mechanic in game. And whilst I think there could definitely be a few tweaks made, I think it works rather well for the most part.
My original post was more aimed at what the possible cause could be for the huge inflation of actual bids. Certain places have always been in huge demand, and its perfectly understandable when guilds want to sink an insane amount on a bid for a prime location. But its when guilds with not even a page worth of listings outbids a decent sized guild for a middle of nowhere location it raises eyebrows. Now, if this had of just been my own guild, a once off thing, then perhaps I would have chalked it down to just bad luck that day. And that maybe a small guild starting out was just informed to bid a ridiculous amount to win a Trader. But this is becoming a more common occurrence in the last couple of months.
Is there just an influx of new guilds, and due to limited locations, the competition is getting more fierce? Is it because large trade guilds are making these 'dummy' guilds to hold a location in the event they miss their prime location? Is it because of add ons and sources like TTC which reduce the necessity of having a prime location to make decent sales? Or is it due to the fact that botting and gold selling is becoming increasingly popular and there is a need to 'clean' loot and cash?
Or maybe its just all of the above.Montayva: EP, AD, DC Magplar | Mistress Montayva: AD, DC, EP Mag DK | Rharhey: EP, AD Mag Sorccrafters
Nirnrewt/ Nutella/Nirncrux: AD, EP, DC Stamblades+StamdensES Cosplayer wannabe
Beholder of the power to unleash the QAM HAM0 -
Swifigames✭✭✭Supply, demand and inevitable inflation.
Standard for anything commerce related.
It will get to a point where it'll be unfathomably high as guild masters increase the size of their pocket books over time.
It will only get more and more expensive to bid on locations. And it will continue to snowball until it hits the proverbial wall or something bigger and better comes along and makes the pattern obsolete.
PS/NA guilds typically charge 10+K per week for a position in the guild.
I'd love to be able to join a guild and sell things, but when you're just starting out funds can be rather insane.
There are guilds that scoop people up by the handfuls offering free guild housing only to turn around a month later and start asking mandatory funding to remain in the guild. Happened to one I was in a while ago...saw the message and just left. I'm not that dedicated to something I'll never run or operate personally. If I'm not top dog and I give that much money away with nothing in return other than a place to sell some mats every now and again I'm giving my gold away for nothing and sitting at risk to be removed from a guild for any potential reason and watch them just continue on as if my inclusion meant nothing.
Basically, I'd love to be in a guild with a trader to sell things I'd like to sell, but it's not really worth it to me personally as anything could happen, I don't want to shell out gold and end up being replaced for any reason.
It would be really, super, super neat if the developers would just make a damn open to all trading market for low level/inexperienced players to sell items/materials to other players in the world.
Instead we are forced to either pay high coin or turn off the chat log as it's typically flooded with people trying to sell their items through that interface.
So here we are, too broke to join a trading guild, and forced to watch the chat log be continually flooded with users trying to sell goods. Between the chat being clogged with sellers and utterly ridiculous nonsense from what appear to be young bucks going through puberty there appears to be little hope for not only guilds but the chat feed as well.
I really enjoy the game, but those are two aspects of it I'm not caring for too much the more and more I play."We don't want other worlds, we want mirrors." - Gibarian
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Nightblade (Bosmer) - Kremlok
Templar (Khajiit) - Drops-the-Ball
Templar (Altmer) - Lyranil of Alinor
Necromancer (Altmer) - Kalomyr
Sorcerer (Dunmer) - Lord Eldruin0 -
I'm officer in a mid level trade guild and having same issues. Used to get an ok trader every week. Last two weeks have lost bid, luckily last week got a free trader but this week nothing
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Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭CastaLyron wrote: »Although the system has good points and bad, I think it serves one fundamentally important part in the economy.
All the players in the game essentially make a lot of gold from "nothing", quest rewards, drops etc. The total in game gold accumulates a lot for every day passed. If left unchecked the inflation would become huge, since everyone gets more and more gold, gold would be worth less over time.
By making a gold sink in guild traders, you ensure that money disappears from the game again to make an outlet valve to the inflation and keeping gold value more in check. Since guild trader price is to the highest bidder, you also ensure that the actual value of gold for the players pay a part in how much you need to pay, thereby letting the mechanic adjust the Eso economy in total by the players themselves, although most players would not be aware of the fact.
I understand perfectly the need for this mechanic in game. And whilst I think there could definitely be a few tweaks made, I think it works rather well for the most part.
My original post was more aimed at what the possible cause could be for the huge inflation of actual bids. Certain places have always been in huge demand, and its perfectly understandable when guilds want to sink an insane amount on a bid for a prime location. But its when guilds with not even a page worth of listings outbids a decent sized guild for a middle of nowhere location it raises eyebrows. Now, if this had of just been my own guild, a once off thing, then perhaps I would have chalked it down to just bad luck that day. And that maybe a small guild starting out was just informed to bid a ridiculous amount to win a Trader. But this is becoming a more common occurrence in the last couple of months.
Is there just an influx of new guilds, and due to limited locations, the competition is getting more fierce? Is it because large trade guilds are making these 'dummy' guilds to hold a location in the event they miss their prime location? Is it because of add ons and sources like TTC which reduce the necessity of having a prime location to make decent sales? Or is it due to the fact that botting and gold selling is becoming increasingly popular and there is a need to 'clean' loot and cash?
Or maybe its just all of the above.
No it's simpler than that. Just like in leaderboards - there's a limited amount of spots. At first, it's easy to stay on the leaderboards, but as time goes on, it becomes more packed and dense, people get better and better score etc. Same here, there's only X traders. Some guilds are becoming richer and can afford to bid more.
Basically, your "score" is not enough to hold that spot on the "leaderboard" that you had. You need to move to a lower spot or not have a spot at all. It's not because of botting or TTC - it's just where things were always going. Your guild is not the first and not the last one to find itself in this situation.0 -
Sevalaricgirl✭✭✭✭✭It's honestly the stupidest thing in this game to not have a real auction house.1
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AuraNebula✭✭✭✭✭How does this continue with so many posts like this? It's obviously a major problem that many players are unhappy with.0 -
ArcVelarian✭✭✭✭✭A couple of things need to happen to help deal with the bidding creep:- Double the number of items you can put up for sale in a single guild store.
- Traders that can represent up to three different guilds at once. When bidding, this would be the top three bids.
- Increase the number of members a guild can have by at least one-hundred.
- Additional Guild Traders at various locations in Base Game Zones. Preferably within one-hundred meters of a Wayshrine or in frequently trafficked areas.
Murphy's Law of PvP : If it can be abused and or exploited, it will be abused and or exploited.2 -
Inarre✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I believe the idea or intent behind no auction house was so that independent markets could exist and players could play those markets. Now there will be no market playing due to the superficial auction house addons that have sprouted up.
Either we should have an actual bidding hall (still not a fan but better than what we have currently) or none at all (get rid of the addons that give you an AH perspective of listings and where to purchase them)
This is sort of a big deal @ZOS_GinaBruno1 -
AuraNebula✭✭✭✭✭ArcVelarian wrote: »A couple of things need to happen to help deal with the bidding creep:
- Double the number of items you can put up for sale in a single guild store.
- Traders that can represent up to three different guilds at once. When bidding, this would be the top three bids.
- Increase the number of members a guild can have by at least one-hundred.
- Additional Guild Traders at various locations in Base Game Zones. Preferably within one-hundred meters of a Wayshrine or in frequently trafficked areas.
The counter argument to the ghost traders is that ZOS wants it that way. ZOS put in place that only one guild can bid on a trader at one time. These guilds have found a loophole around it. If ZOS truly wants guilds to be able to bid on more than one location then they should implement the ideas listed above. Otherwise this Monopoly will just continue.0 -
Barbaran✭✭✭✭This is actually a good thing. The higher the price traders go for the better.
The more competitive trader spots get, the better the guild stores that inevitably make it in. The guilds will be put under increasing pressure to sell more (good for the economy).
the higher the price to maintain a trader gets, the more expensive items get. things that used to cost 2-3k are now 6,7,8,9K+.
ive heard of some mournhold traders charging membets 15K a week now. 4-5 months ago it was 5K, just recently upped to 10K1 -
Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is actually a good thing. The higher the price traders go for the better.
The more competitive trader spots get, the better the guild stores that inevitably make it in. The guilds will be put under increasing pressure to sell more (good for the economy).
the higher the price to maintain a trader gets, the more expensive items get. things that used to cost 2-3k are now 6,7,8,9K+.
ive heard of some mournhold traders charging membets 15K a week now. 4-5 months ago it was 5K, just recently upped to 10K
I have been in various guilds in the major hubs rawlk, mournhold, craglorn, etc.
Some charge you weekly 'dues' and some don't. Some only impose a minimal sales requirement per week, and then there are some even in the major hubs that don't even have a posted sales requirement or weekly charge.
I have shifted around in many of the guilds until I have found ones I'm happy with, and now I don't pay a cent to be in any of the ones I'm in, though I will still donate from time to time out of courtesy.
Many players like me simply do not shop outside of the major hubs, so any comment I make is likely only relating to them. You won't see me going to many of the obscure traders looking for deals. I like to maximize my efficiency in the game and it does not involve doing that.
BTW, I am on PC NA, I hear on console people are getting ripped off even more than on here. At least on PC a good amount of the guilds don't have 'dues', but some do.1 -
dvonpm✭✭✭✭ArcVelarian wrote: »A couple of things need to happen to help deal with the bidding creep:- Double the number of items you can put up for sale in a single guild store.
- Traders that can represent up to three different guilds at once. When bidding, this would be the top three bids.
- Increase the number of members a guild can have by at least one-hundred.
- Additional Guild Traders at various locations in Base Game Zones. Preferably within one-hundred meters of a Wayshrine or in frequently trafficked areas.
All but one of these suggestions are all really great ideas, especially since they are relatively easy improvements to the system as is. I'm ambivalent about more than one guild at a trader. Anyway- I'm very much in support of the higher member and sales slot counts, both are great ideas as long as the player base is steady or increasing. (Which it may not be, granted.)
I also wanted to throw out a few points to those who are unhappy about guild dues and elitism. I'm an officer in a well-established trading guild in a capital city and have been for several years, so I am familiar with how it works and bidding "fun". And I can't speak for all guilds, but this is what we try to do...
* 30 million in kiosk sales will generate 1.05 million for the guild. That's a pretty good week for a cap city kiosk, but that is not enough for the trader bids. Dues/raffles are there to cover that gap and spread that cost around so it isn't just a fraction of the guild carrying that weight. We also need to make sure we have gold reserves for bidding wars/price increases/events/ etc.
* If you want that good selling spot, you are responsible for doing what you can to keep it.
* Our guild has kept the dues as low as we can. This is probably true of most guilds. Trust me, we are doing math and we are not trying to punish anyone. It's a shared resource, so it has a shared cost.
* I specifically tell new recruits who are worried about the mins not to worry for a few weeks and to do what they can until they are able to meet them. Dues are not meant to be a barrier for new people and we all have better things to do than police sales/donations. It is meant to keep people active in the guild and contributing. If your guild doesn't understand that you are new and need time, or that you have off selling weeks, find a guild better suited to you, they are out there!
* New or casual players, talk to your GMs, officers, and guildies. Work something out if you are having trouble. That may not be true in all guilds, but you won't know until you ask. I'd rather keep someone active than have to recruit a replacement and start over. We all have bad weeks and lives outside the game, and we've all been new and broke.
On elitism- most GMs and officers have worked incredibly hard to maintain a good spot and active guild. It is a part or full time job for many of us. It can be exhausting, stressful, tedious, and yes, I've had nightmares and I'm not even responsible for the big stuff.
If you just started a guild 6 months ago and want to move in on more desirable territory, I understand that. We've all been there. I appreciate your can-do attitude and wish you the best. But I didn't work an unpaid part time job for 3+ years and donate countless millions to lose our good spot. And people are relying on us to keep things running. Those things are going to come first, and that's not unfair.
If your guild does not have dues, it is probably relying on a small number of high sellers/high contributors that may not always be there. That's great, those people rock, but if things change you should expect to have pick up the slack. The more of us that do a little bit, the easier it is for everyone.
Cheating and exploits are never acceptable, but most of the established guilds have a core group that worked their butts off for many years to get where they are. I understand that this may seem like elitism, but it's actually just a ton of mostly thankless work. It is infrastructure people built and we are all free to use it, rather than rebuild the wheel.
It's an investment. So please, before you assume the worst about dues and such, just try to remember that some of us have really put a lot in this and that we generally want the best for our guilds and the people in them
Very few people are out to hurt smaller guilds or keep newer players out of big trade guilds, and those that do probably won't last long. (And are hopefully such jerks in real life that they get fired from their jobs, can't pay their sub or internet, and just go away.)
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dvonpm✭✭✭✭This is actually a good thing. The higher the price traders go for the better.
The more competitive trader spots get, the better the guild stores that inevitably make it in. The guilds will be put under increasing pressure to sell more (good for the economy).
the higher the price to maintain a trader gets, the more expensive items get. things that used to cost 2-3k are now 6,7,8,9K+.
ive heard of some mournhold traders charging membets 15K a week now. 4-5 months ago it was 5K, just recently upped to 10K
I have been in various guilds in the major hubs rawlk, mournhold, craglorn, etc.
Some charge you weekly 'dues' and some don't. Some only impose a minimal sales requirement per week, and then there are some even in the major hubs that don't even have a posted sales requirement or weekly charge.
I have shifted around in many of the guilds until I have found ones I'm happy with, and now I don't pay a cent to be in any of the ones I'm in, though I will still donate from time to time out of courtesy.
...
Just a reminder that other people are probably paying those several cents you are not, in order to keep those traders available to you.
You're welcome
And if anyone was wondering why guilds need minimums and why some are so quick to boot, maybe here the mystery is solved.Edited by dvonpm on August 8, 2017 4:34AM0 -
Kalante✭✭✭✭✭
✭The trading system for console is a joke.
There is no arguing about that. Also this whole blind bidding for traders is pure cancer. I am not even a GM and i know if i lose a bid for one these major cities i am the one who is gonna get the blame and then all these entitled *****s from my guild are gonna spam me with their useless moaning and tantrums.0
