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Bidding day - A Trade GMs worst Nightmare
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Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't understand the difficulty. I joined "Aldmeri Nation" and "Back Alley Trader's" and they do very well. I pay 15k gold per week in dues and make significantly more than that and I play casually. I have one main character with most crafting skills maxed besides Blacksmithing. Why are you opposed from joining one of the big guilds? They always have spots and if you actually know how to sell your goods it's very easy to make very good gold. I love the way the trading system works in this game, it rewards the folks who actually understand how to sell items.
Our guild has been around since september of the first year of launch. While we are big in number, most of our members are casual and can't afford things like a 15k a week fee. Previously we have had no trouble raising enough funds via a weekly raffle to be able to place a bid on a decent location. Now the prices of those locations have increased phenomenally but our member base is the same. The 'bigger' more serious trade guilds won't accommodate a lot of our players who aren't serious traders and won't make quotas. The current trading meta seems to be you either have to be very serious about it or not bother at all. There is no in between for the little guys and it's extremely hard for casual players to find a place if trading isn't their main aim of the game
If you're to casual to trade seriously then you shouldn't be running a trading guild. All that's happening based on your post is that your trading guild isn't keeping the most active traders in it, which means your shop would be empty if you owned the trader, which means you don't deserve the trader. It's really that simple. If your guild members are unable to pay the dues and stock the store then why do you want a trader? Just to have one and call yourself a trading guild?
its not about being 'casual'. Not everyone in the game can meet the requirements of the larger, more serious guilds. Should those people just not bother at all? Is this a case of "You have to be seriously into trading or dont bother at all?" Perhaps everyone just misinterprets things when I say "casual". We work hard on educating our guildies on how to make gold and make the most of their time in game. People who would otherwise not even bother to try because the requirements of larger guilds seem too daunting and unobtainable. Yes, most of these people do eventually move on to larger guilds once they have the game and playing the market figured out. We all start somewhere. And as a game that is constantly receiving new players we are more than happy to help them get on their feet.
Also I can assure you our shop is far from empty. Though all your assumptions are rather amusing. You seem like the kind of person who would rather just assume the worst of everyone and everything. I never said I myself or my officers were casual to Trade. And like I said, our guildies can afford to support via raffle ect. But what everyone seems to keep avoiding is the point I am trying to make.
What is the point of paying huge amounts on a Trader in the middle of nowhere that receives very minimal traffic and makes no sales?
You dont have to be super serious to be a great trader. I am a GM of a trade guild and not everyone is selling over 100k. While I would love if everyone did it comes down to expereince with the market the more you know about how to price things and what items sell best in certain traders it will be easier to make loads of money without trying. I have people that make 300k and they only play a couple hours a day.
If you are not making the money or if you cannot meet min sales requirements for guilds there is always the option to sell in zone. THe point of trade guilds is make money if you are not intersted in that join another type of guild such as pvp/pve/trials.
Or they can just make an AH and be done with the horrid messed up pile of so called trading in this game.4 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Or they can just make an AH and be done with the horrid messed up pile of so called trading in this game.
Can you take your tears to a thread devoted to AH? Didn't cry babies create a new one this week? Or might as well cry about some dumb token system while you're at it.
We're discussing the current system, how it works and how to survive there. Please, don't turn it into another one of your crying parties. Vent/rant somewhere else.0 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The trading guild I'm had a spy track our GM's trader bids for another guild so they could steal it. I hope that spy got in trouble.For the love of Kyne, buff sorc. PC NACP 2100+Star-Sïnger - Khajiit Magicka Sorc - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror vMA/vBRP/vDSA no death/vHel Ra HM/vAA HM/vSO HM/vMoL HM/vHoF HM/vAS +2/vCR+3/vSS HMs/vKA HMs/vVH/vRG Oax HM/vDSR1 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Or they can just make an AH and be done with the horrid messed up pile of so called trading in this game.
Can you take your tears to a thread devoted to AH? Didn't cry babies create a new one this week? Or might as well cry about some dumb token system while you're at it.
We're discussing the current system, how it works and how to survive there. Please, don't turn it into another one of your crying parties. Vent/rant somewhere else.
From the looks of it people are crying not to get an AH, so basically your tearing as much as I am1 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »+1m bids in Rawlka or Mournhold or gtfo. Bid big or go home. Try maintaining these huge bids for over a year. L2collude.
Grahtwood's traders are just as bad. Easily over 1 mill for my trading guild's trader since he's the most popular.For the love of Kyne, buff sorc. PC NACP 2100+Star-Sïnger - Khajiit Magicka Sorc - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror vMA/vBRP/vDSA no death/vHel Ra HM/vAA HM/vSO HM/vMoL HM/vHoF HM/vAS +2/vCR+3/vSS HMs/vKA HMs/vVH/vRG Oax HM/vDSR0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Or they can just make an AH and be done with the horrid messed up pile of so called trading in this game.
Can you take your tears to a thread devoted to AH? Didn't cry babies create a new one this week? Or might as well cry about some dumb token system while you're at it.
We're discussing the current system, how it works and how to survive there. Please, don't turn it into another one of your crying parties. Vent/rant somewhere else.
From the looks of it people are crying not to get an AH, so basically your tearing as much as I am
No, I'm not. I'm just telling you to cry somewhere else, there are places and threads designed just for that. Here, I would like to read people talking about bidding - sharing impressions and info if they succeeded in this system. You can't argue that comments like yours bring zero value to this thread. In fact, negative value because they derail it.WuffyCerulei wrote: »DRXHarbinger wrote: »+1m bids in Rawlka or Mournhold or gtfo. Bid big or go home. Try maintaining these huge bids for over a year. L2collude.
Grahtwood's traders are just as bad. Easily over 1 mill for my trading guild's trader since he's the most popular.
I'm assuming all capitals are in mid 7 digits. A few millions if not 10+, easy.Edited by Artis on July 12, 2017 7:19AM0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Or they can just make an AH and be done with the horrid messed up pile of so called trading in this game.
Can you take your tears to a thread devoted to AH? Didn't cry babies create a new one this week? Or might as well cry about some dumb token system while you're at it.
We're discussing the current system, how it works and how to survive there. Please, don't turn it into another one of your crying parties. Vent/rant somewhere else.
From the looks of it people are crying not to get an AH, so basically your tearing as much as I am
No, I'm not. I'm just telling you to cry somewhere else, there are places and threads designed just for that. Here, I would like to read people talking about bidding - sharing impressions and info if they succeeded in this system. You can't argue that comments like yours bring zero value to this thread. In fact, negative value because they derail it.
And i'm telling you i'm not crying simply explaining how bad the current system is1 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Or they can just make an AH and be done with the horrid messed up pile of so called trading in this game.
Can you take your tears to a thread devoted to AH? Didn't cry babies create a new one this week? Or might as well cry about some dumb token system while you're at it.
We're discussing the current system, how it works and how to survive there. Please, don't turn it into another one of your crying parties. Vent/rant somewhere else.
From the looks of it people are crying not to get an AH, so basically your tearing as much as I am
No, I'm not. I'm just telling you to cry somewhere else, there are places and threads designed just for that. Here, I would like to read people talking about bidding - sharing impressions and info if they succeeded in this system. You can't argue that comments like yours bring zero value to this thread. In fact, negative value because they derail it.
And i'm telling you i'm not crying simply explaining how bad the current system is
And I'm telling you again - it IS crying and no one cares. THIS thread is not to discuss alternatives to the current system. And yes, you did cry and not "explained" anything. Re-read your comment. It's just passive-aggressive "waaa or they could add AH because this system is bad". Go to a weekly AH thread, please. Thanks.Edited by Artis on July 12, 2017 7:21AM1 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Or they can just make an AH and be done with the horrid messed up pile of so called trading in this game.
Can you take your tears to a thread devoted to AH? Didn't cry babies create a new one this week? Or might as well cry about some dumb token system while you're at it.
We're discussing the current system, how it works and how to survive there. Please, don't turn it into another one of your crying parties. Vent/rant somewhere else.
From the looks of it people are crying not to get an AH, so basically your tearing as much as I am
No, I'm not. I'm just telling you to cry somewhere else, there are places and threads designed just for that. Here, I would like to read people talking about bidding - sharing impressions and info if they succeeded in this system. You can't argue that comments like yours bring zero value to this thread. In fact, negative value because they derail it.
And i'm telling you i'm not crying simply explaining how bad the current system is
And I'm telling you again - it IS crying and no one cares. THIS thread is not to discuss alternatives to the current system. Go to a weekly AH thread, please. Thanks.
And i'm telling you - yes alot of people care I've asked tons of people in game and the majority of them in every zone wants an AH.4 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Or they can just make an AH and be done with the horrid messed up pile of so called trading in this game.
Can you take your tears to a thread devoted to AH? Didn't cry babies create a new one this week? Or might as well cry about some dumb token system while you're at it.
We're discussing the current system, how it works and how to survive there. Please, don't turn it into another one of your crying parties. Vent/rant somewhere else.
From the looks of it people are crying not to get an AH, so basically your tearing as much as I am
No, I'm not. I'm just telling you to cry somewhere else, there are places and threads designed just for that. Here, I would like to read people talking about bidding - sharing impressions and info if they succeeded in this system. You can't argue that comments like yours bring zero value to this thread. In fact, negative value because they derail it.
And i'm telling you i'm not crying simply explaining how bad the current system is
And I'm telling you again - it IS crying and no one cares. THIS thread is not to discuss alternatives to the current system. Go to a weekly AH thread, please. Thanks.
And i'm telling you - yes alot of people care I've asked tons of people in game and the majority of them in every zone wants an AH.
And I'm telling you again. THIS IS NOT the thread for this. Take your tears elsewhere.
This thread is about bidding and hiring guild traders. In the current existing system. There are other threads where you can fantasize about AH or cry about guild trading as a system. This is not the thread for that. A lot of people care, and there are other threads for those crybabies. A lot of people don't care - and they want to discuss the system. Read the title of this thread again and go elsewhere if you have nothing to contribute.1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭fastolfv_ESO wrote: »tamriel trade center probly has a huge impact on this, you no longer need the high traffic areas when ppl pull up the entire games listen items and then go to your location, so larger guilds pick crummy spots to save money and overbid which puts the pressure on the smaller guilds in the locations nobody wanted before
Most people don't use TTC. And they typically don't pull up TTC when looking for mundane things like mats.1 -
failkiwib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »fastolfv_ESO wrote: »tamriel trade center probly has a huge impact on this, you no longer need the high traffic areas when ppl pull up the entire games listen items and then go to your location, so larger guilds pick crummy spots to save money and overbid which puts the pressure on the smaller guilds in the locations nobody wanted before
Most people don't use TTC. And they typically don't pull up TTC when looking for mundane things like mats.
I play on PC/EU where most people don't know about TTC. Not even the power sellers lol I can only assume that TTC is extremely useful for Console users, because they don't have access to MasterMerchant and AwesomeGuildstore addon.0 -
Urkraft✭✭✭✭✭I don't understand the difficulty. I joined "Aldmeri Nation" and "Back Alley Trader's" and they do very well. I pay 15k gold per week in dues and make significantly more than that and I play casually. I have one main character with most crafting skills maxed besides Blacksmithing. Why are you opposed from joining one of the big guilds? They always have spots and if you actually know how to sell your goods it's very easy to make very good gold. I love the way the trading system works in this game, it rewards the folks who actually understand how to sell items.
Our guild has been around since september of the first year of launch. While we are big in number, most of our members are casual and can't afford things like a 15k a week fee. Previously we have had no trouble raising enough funds via a weekly raffle to be able to place a bid on a decent location. Now the prices of those locations have increased phenomenally but our member base is the same. The 'bigger' more serious trade guilds won't accommodate a lot of our players who aren't serious traders and won't make quotas. The current trading meta seems to be you either have to be very serious about it or not bother at all. There is no in between for the little guys and it's extremely hard for casual players to find a place if trading isn't their main aim of the game
If you're to casual to trade seriously then you shouldn't be running a trading guild. All that's happening based on your post is that your trading guild isn't keeping the most active traders in it, which means your shop would be empty if you owned the trader, which means you don't deserve the trader. It's really that simple. If your guild members are unable to pay the dues and stock the store then why do you want a trader? Just to have one and call yourself a trading guild?
its not about being 'casual'. Not everyone in the game can meet the requirements of the larger, more serious guilds. Should those people just not bother at all? Is this a case of "You have to be seriously into trading or dont bother at all?" Perhaps everyone just misinterprets things when I say "casual". We work hard on educating our guildies on how to make gold and make the most of their time in game. People who would otherwise not even bother to try because the requirements of larger guilds seem too daunting and unobtainable. Yes, most of these people do eventually move on to larger guilds once they have the game and playing the market figured out. We all start somewhere. And as a game that is constantly receiving new players we are more than happy to help them get on their feet.
Also I can assure you our shop is far from empty. Though all your assumptions are rather amusing. You seem like the kind of person who would rather just assume the worst of everyone and everything. I never said I myself or my officers were casual to Trade. And like I said, our guildies can afford to support via raffle ect. But what everyone seems to keep avoiding is the point I am trying to make.
What is the point of paying huge amounts on a Trader in the middle of nowhere that receives very minimal traffic and makes no sales?
You dont have to be super serious to be a great trader. I am a GM of a trade guild and not everyone is selling over 100k. While I would love if everyone did it comes down to expereince with the market the more you know about how to price things and what items sell best in certain traders it will be easier to make loads of money without trying. I have people that make 300k and they only play a couple hours a day.
If you are not making the money or if you cannot meet min sales requirements for guilds there is always the option to sell in zone. THe point of trade guilds is make money if you are not intersted in that join another type of guild such as pvp/pve/trials.
Actually I still think all servers provide enough space also for casual trade guilds with low requirements and for people who arent too serious into trading, nobody should run around through zone, trying to sell a 3k worth recipe and 2 alloys in his week.
Also I dont like GM trying to convince their people to make more gold or trying to make them good sellers. If somebody wants gold and to learn how to earn it - its okay, but pushing them to sales never has been one of my businesses. If someone wasnt able to catch up requirements, i checked out a more suitable guild for him, maybe also with a nice community where he feels better and doesnt need to fear, to be kicked in 2 weeks again.
Edited by Urkraft on July 12, 2017 2:42PM1 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Or they can just make an AH and be done with the horrid messed up pile of so called trading in this game.
Can you take your tears to a thread devoted to AH? Didn't cry babies create a new one this week? Or might as well cry about some dumb token system while you're at it.
We're discussing the current system, how it works and how to survive there. Please, don't turn it into another one of your crying parties. Vent/rant somewhere else.
From the looks of it people are crying not to get an AH, so basically your tearing as much as I am
No, I'm not. I'm just telling you to cry somewhere else, there are places and threads designed just for that. Here, I would like to read people talking about bidding - sharing impressions and info if they succeeded in this system. You can't argue that comments like yours bring zero value to this thread. In fact, negative value because they derail it.
And i'm telling you i'm not crying simply explaining how bad the current system is
And I'm telling you again - it IS crying and no one cares. THIS thread is not to discuss alternatives to the current system. And yes, you did cry and not "explained" anything. Re-read your comment. It's just passive-aggressive "waaa or they could add AH because this system is bad". Go to a weekly AH thread, please. Thanks.
I do. This system sucks. We are here to discuss this system, yes? Your own words. You'd be amazed how many people don't even bother with this system because of it's needless complexity. Think of how much material and goods aren't even in circulation simply because of the nonsense involved in trying move them.4 -
DRXHarbinger wrote: »+1m bids in Rawlka or Mournhold or gtfo. Bid big or go home. Try maintaining these huge bids for over a year. L2collude.
1mil ? Lol u obv still selling to merchants in vulkhel guard .. average bid for a main city trader 12mil ... weekly ...
Lol 1 mil .... gtfo0 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭GreyWolf_79 wrote: »LOL I've actually been wanting to join a trading guild to sell all of my excess recipes and motifs and such... but most trading guilds want 5-10k a week in membership dues, which is not surprising if the trading spots are actually going for millions. But after searching through some of the guild stores, I realize that very few items actually sell for that much. Been picking up recipes for less than 100 gold - ones that I already had of course, but hey, at those prices I can't afford NOT to buy them. Only the really rare recipes make any money. So then I have to ask myself. If most of what I have to sell are common items that aren't worth very much, and aren't guaranteed to sell even at discount prices, how can I possibly justify paying some guild 5-10k every week just for the "great opportunity" of being able to sell junk that most people probably don't even want? Or even if they do want it, most people don't feel like running to 10 different cities and checking 50 different guild traders to see who has what and for how much.
I don't actually have a solid opinion on global AH, just wanted to comment on the bolded part. I'd say that in this case the trading system isn't for you. Why'd you need a trade guild if you don't have anything worthy to sell? You can make 5k quick enough just questing, so why bother with that possible extra 2k you'd have made selling 100 gold-worth recipes or something? Current system is encouraging people wanting to trade to be active in it. I know some people make over a million a week in sales in my guild for example(which btw we don't have a fee. You do need to either take part in raffle or sell actively though), and I do think it's better for the guild on the whole to have these people rather than someone for whom 5k a week is a barely reachable amount(I'm not saying everyone has to be hardcore traders, I'm saying the trading system has no reason to cater to people who are not actually interested in active trading).
I'd been playing the game just fine for like 2 years without a trading guild. Made enough gold questing to sustain repair costs and whatnot, farmed most of my stuff and occasionally sold something in zchat. Recently I've started acquiring some rather expensive things I could sell(SotH motifs
) so I started looking, asked some friends and within 3 days I was in a guild with stable trader in Mournhold. I'm farming some stuff lately so have quite a few things to sell, my list is usually full and I make at least several hundred thousand a week for sure. I don't bother selling stuff that costs less than 5k there, I just give it away usually. If I get bored of this I'll leave/get kicked and live on without an active trade guild just fine.
I'm not sure if global AH would make the game better or worse but I feel a lot of the issues with the current system are made up. I don't know anyone who's actively selling/trying to sell things and unable to find a trading guild.Edited by Magdalina on July 12, 2017 3:11PM1 -
Pallmor✭✭✭✭✭
✭If the system is so bad it implodes, then ZOS will have no choice but to alter the system. Seems this current system is driven by players who either want to play ESO TRADER, or want to accumulate billions of gold for whatever reason.
The ones who are playing ESO Trader will totally dominate and ruin a global auction house. Anyone who posts items for sale at a decent price with be bought out, and the items relisted at a huge increase. People flip items now to a certain extent, but they have to do some traveling to do it. A global AH would be a dream come true for them.
Funny, but I've never seen that problem in the EVERY OTHER MMO ON THE PLANET (almost all of which have some form of global Auction House). The auction house works just fine in Neverwinter, which is similar in size and scale to ESO. And no one there ever has to beg their way into a trade guild or pay any weekly dues just to sell something.
Edited by Pallmor on July 12, 2017 3:07PM1 -
lasertooth✭✭✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »
....You'd be amazed how many people don't even bother with this system because of it's needless complexity. Think of how much material and goods aren't even in circulation simply because of the nonsense involved in trying move them.
This person DOES bring up a good point. And it is related to the discussion. I view running a trading guild, or even participating in one, as a game within the game.
Its just like housing or pve or pvp. It takes a lot of time to be successful. A player can pve without having to pvp. Pvp is optional. Participating in a guild trader used to be optional, but I don't think that's the case anymore. There arent viable ways to make in game gold unless you grind out the guild traders. It takes time and effort, and those not willing to do this/can't pay 10k weekly dues are finding it hard to be successful.
But an AH won't ever happen. For some of the guild traders, this aspect of the game is all they do. I know players who only trade, they don't really play anymore. ESO would be cutting out a part of the game if they removed or significantly changed the guild trading.
This game relies on balance to be successful. Perhaps guild trading needs to be *nerfed, and perhaps ways to make in game gold [without botting] needs to be buffed.
*edited, effing autocorrect lolEdited by lasertooth on July 12, 2017 3:11PMLasertooth
GM of ESO Grand Designs, Grand Designs Too, and Grand Designs Trinity
Xbox/NA2 -
GreyWolf_79✭✭✭✭GreyWolf_79 wrote: »LOL I've actually been wanting to join a trading guild to sell all of my excess recipes and motifs and such... but most trading guilds want 5-10k a week in membership dues, which is not surprising if the trading spots are actually going for millions. But after searching through some of the guild stores, I realize that very few items actually sell for that much. Been picking up recipes for less than 100 gold - ones that I already had of course, but hey, at those prices I can't afford NOT to buy them. Only the really rare recipes make any money. So then I have to ask myself. If most of what I have to sell are common items that aren't worth very much, and aren't guaranteed to sell even at discount prices, how can I possibly justify paying some guild 5-10k every week just for the "great opportunity" of being able to sell junk that most people probably don't even want? Or even if they do want it, most people don't feel like running to 10 different cities and checking 50 different guild traders to see who has what and for how much.
I don't actually have a solid opinion on global AH, just wanted to comment on the bolded part. I'd say that in this case the trading system isn't for you. Why'd you need a trade guild if you don't have anything worthy to sell? You can make 5k quick enough just questing, so why bother with that possible extra 2k you'd have made selling 100 gold-worth recipes or something? Current system is encouraging people wanting to trade to be active in it. I know some people make over a million a week in sales in my guild for example(which btw we don't have a fee. You do need to either take part in raffle or sell actively though), and I do think it's better for the guild on the whole to have these people rather than someone for whom 5k a week is a barely reachable amount(I'm not saying everyone has to be hardcore traders, I'm saying the trading system has no reason to cater to people who are not actually interested in active trading).
I'd been playing the game just fine for like 2 years without a trading guild. Made enough gold questing to sustain repair costs and whatnot, farmed most of my stuff and occasionally sold something in zchat. Recently I've started acquiring some rather expensive things I could sell(SotH motifs ) so I started looking, asked some friends and within 3 days I was in a guild with stable trader in Mournhold. I'm farming some stuff lately so have quite a few things to sell, my list is usually full and I make at least several hundred thousand a week for sure. I don't bother selling stuff that costs less than 5k there, I just give it away usually. If I get bored of this I'll leave/get kicked and live on without an active trade guild just fine.
I'm not sure if global AH would make the game better or worse but I feel a lot of the issues with the current system are made up. I don't know anyone who's actively selling things and unable to find a trading guild.
I make well over 5k a week, in fact I easily make more than that in a day. The point is, why should I have to pay 5k in dues just to be able to sell stuff? Yes, most MMOs have a "tax" system in place where you lose part of the profits on every sale you make, and I'm fine with that. But with our current system, you have to pay a guild for membership, AND you have to pay a listing fee, AND you have to pay a portion of your proceeds to "the game" (AKA gold sink).
Why bother with that extra 2k? Because it's 2k extra that I could have to spend on things that I actually need. The 100 gold recipes I'm picking up are not ones I planned on selling, I actually belong to a non-trader guild and I was going to put those recipes in the guild bank for new members to use. I have a fair number of blue and purple items, along with green furniture recipes, which could fetch a decent income. Right now I'm either just hoarding that stuff or merching it. I'm selling stuff to merchants for 9 gold when I could easily sell it to a player for 10-100 times that amount, if not more.
Most of the responses to my original comment have erroneously assumed that I'm either below CP160, or poor, or both. I own several houses, CP280, have earned and spent well over a million gold in the less than 6 months that I've been playing... I'd just like to be able to participate in an economy where I can see everything that is for sale, in one place at one time, and be able to sell anything I pick up and don't need to anyone who wants it. But hey, I guess I'm just a pathetic poor low level pleb who is being completely irrational. A system where everyone can buy and sell anything to anyone anywhere? Madness!!! Utter madness.4 -
Crafts_Many_Boxes✭✭✭✭✭lasertooth wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »
....You'd be amazed how many people don't even bother with this system because of it's needless complexity. Think of how much material and goods aren't even in circulation simply because of the nonsense involved in trying move them.
This person DOES bring up a good point. And it is related to the discussion. I view running a trading guild, or even participating in one, as a game within the game.
Its just like housing or pve or pvp. It takes a lot of time to be successful. A player can pve without having to pvp. Pvp is optional. Participating in a guild trader used to be optional, but I don't think that's the case anymore. There arent viable ways to make in game gold unless you grind out the guild traders. It takes time and effort, and those not willing to do this/can't pay 10k weekly dues are finding it hard to be successful.
But an AH won't ever happen. For some of the guild traders, this aspect of the game is all they do. I know players who only trade, they don't really play anymore. ESO would be cutting out a part of the game if they removed or significantly changed the guild trading.
This game relies on balance to be successful. Perhaps guild trading needs to be *nerfed, and perhaps ways to make in game gold [without botting] needs to be buffed.
*edited, effing autocorrect lol
I'm an old-school PvEr who just recently came to this game (shortly after homestead hit). I don't want to have to play a mini game within my MMO just to be able to participate in the economy, and that's what these guild trader kiosks and the associated system create. They create an economy that's incredibly tedious and controlled by a clandestine few, to the point where most of player don't even want to bother.
To further the quote about not bothering with the system because of the needless complexity, in my short time playing I have amassed something like 40-50 of each gold temper material, thousands of rubedo leather, rubedite ingots, and ruby ash wood. I quest regularly and am often in open world gathering materials along the way, and I have two maxxed out crafters I do writs on. I also have literally hundreds of every kind of housing material because I don't mess with housing much, and hundreds and hundreds of all sorts of other low level mats and plants because of the crafting bag.
If I had to ballpark my total net worth on inventory alone and established MM value, it'd be something like 2-5M. And you know how much of that gold I'll ever see under the current system? Almost nothing. Right now, I'm in 2 trading guilds and one casual PvE guild. One trading guild is in a thieves' den where we get 0 sales every week, and the other just got outbid on our trader. I hate, hate HATE jumping through all these hoops to try and sell stuff. I don't see the point. I don't want to have to go seek out more trading guilds to be able to sell things, and be rewarded for my effort with steep dues and the chance those guilds will fail and leave me without an income.
Guild traders literally represent everything wrong with old-world economies. It has the rustic awfulness of medieval style trading, where everything was incredibly local, never guaranteed to be available in certain areas, and prices fluctuated wildly from region to region. But, it also has zero safeguards to prevent things like trade guild mafias forming monopolies and thereby making the already terrible system worse, and horrific inflation in bidding.
The fact that guilds actively compete with one another in the economy, while at the same time certain players are willing / able to bot while others aren't, already invalidates the entire guild trader system.4 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »lasertooth wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »
....You'd be amazed how many people don't even bother with this system because of it's needless complexity. Think of how much material and goods aren't even in circulation simply because of the nonsense involved in trying move them.
This person DOES bring up a good point. And it is related to the discussion. I view running a trading guild, or even participating in one, as a game within the game.
Its just like housing or pve or pvp. It takes a lot of time to be successful. A player can pve without having to pvp. Pvp is optional. Participating in a guild trader used to be optional, but I don't think that's the case anymore. There arent viable ways to make in game gold unless you grind out the guild traders. It takes time and effort, and those not willing to do this/can't pay 10k weekly dues are finding it hard to be successful.
But an AH won't ever happen. For some of the guild traders, this aspect of the game is all they do. I know players who only trade, they don't really play anymore. ESO would be cutting out a part of the game if they removed or significantly changed the guild trading.
This game relies on balance to be successful. Perhaps guild trading needs to be *nerfed, and perhaps ways to make in game gold [without botting] needs to be buffed.
*edited, effing autocorrect lol
To further the quote about not bothering with the system because of the needless complexity, in my short time playing I have amassed something like 40-50 of each gold temper material, thousands of rubedo leather, rubedite ingots, and ruby ash wood. I quest regularly and am often in open world gathering materials along the way, and I have two maxxed out crafters I do writs on. I also have literally hundreds of every kind of housing material because I don't mess with housing much, and hundreds and hundreds of all sorts of other low level mats and plants because of the crafting bag.
[/b]
I'm the same way. I have thousands upon thousands of crafting mats that just sit unused in my bag, and will probably remain there forever, and I keep adding to it as I go.0 -
Immortal_Dark410✭✭✭✭GreyWolf_79 wrote: »GreyWolf_79 wrote: »LOL I've actually been wanting to join a trading guild to sell all of my excess recipes and motifs and such... but most trading guilds want 5-10k a week in membership dues, which is not surprising if the trading spots are actually going for millions. But after searching through some of the guild stores, I realize that very few items actually sell for that much. Been picking up recipes for less than 100 gold - ones that I already had of course, but hey, at those prices I can't afford NOT to buy them. Only the really rare recipes make any money. So then I have to ask myself. If most of what I have to sell are common items that aren't worth very much, and aren't guaranteed to sell even at discount prices, how can I possibly justify paying some guild 5-10k every week just for the "great opportunity" of being able to sell junk that most people probably don't even want? Or even if they do want it, most people don't feel like running to 10 different cities and checking 50 different guild traders to see who has what and for how much.
I don't actually have a solid opinion on global AH, just wanted to comment on the bolded part. I'd say that in this case the trading system isn't for you. Why'd you need a trade guild if you don't have anything worthy to sell? You can make 5k quick enough just questing, so why bother with that possible extra 2k you'd have made selling 100 gold-worth recipes or something? Current system is encouraging people wanting to trade to be active in it. I know some people make over a million a week in sales in my guild for example(which btw we don't have a fee. You do need to either take part in raffle or sell actively though), and I do think it's better for the guild on the whole to have these people rather than someone for whom 5k a week is a barely reachable amount(I'm not saying everyone has to be hardcore traders, I'm saying the trading system has no reason to cater to people who are not actually interested in active trading).
I'd been playing the game just fine for like 2 years without a trading guild. Made enough gold questing to sustain repair costs and whatnot, farmed most of my stuff and occasionally sold something in zchat. Recently I've started acquiring some rather expensive things I could sell(SotH motifs ) so I started looking, asked some friends and within 3 days I was in a guild with stable trader in Mournhold. I'm farming some stuff lately so have quite a few things to sell, my list is usually full and I make at least several hundred thousand a week for sure. I don't bother selling stuff that costs less than 5k there, I just give it away usually. If I get bored of this I'll leave/get kicked and live on without an active trade guild just fine.
I'm not sure if global AH would make the game better or worse but I feel a lot of the issues with the current system are made up. I don't know anyone who's actively selling things and unable to find a trading guild.
I make well over 5k a week, in fact I easily make more than that in a day. The point is, why should I have to pay 5k in dues just to be able to sell stuff? Yes, most MMOs have a "tax" system in place where you lose part of the profits on every sale you make, and I'm fine with that. But with our current system, you have to pay a guild for membership, AND you have to pay a listing fee, AND you have to pay a portion of your proceeds to "the game" (AKA gold sink).
Why bother with that extra 2k? Because it's 2k extra that I could have to spend on things that I actually need. The 100 gold recipes I'm picking up are not ones I planned on selling, I actually belong to a non-trader guild and I was going to put those recipes in the guild bank for new members to use. I have a fair number of blue and purple items, along with green furniture recipes, which could fetch a decent income. Right now I'm either just hoarding that stuff or merching it. I'm selling stuff to merchants for 9 gold when I could easily sell it to a player for 10-100 times that amount, if not more.
Most of the responses to my original comment have erroneously assumed that I'm either below CP160, or poor, or both. I own several houses, CP280, have earned and spent well over a million gold in the less than 6 months that I've been playing... I'd just like to be able to participate in an economy where I can see everything that is for sale, in one place at one time, and be able to sell anything I pick up and don't need to anyone who wants it. But hey, I guess I'm just a pathetic poor low level pleb who is being completely irrational. A system where everyone can buy and sell anything to anyone anywhere? Madness!!! Utter madness.
I think even if they were to Over-haul the whole system like some players want it to be, it wont happen to much work probably on their end to do it , (This is my opinion doesn't mean they wont). As for the Whole AH or No AH conversation, I Believe ZOS already commented on it a "Long" time ago, Stating that they made the current system the way it was to be different then other MMO'S. For example "Blizzard" games that use AH System. Yes It takes people time to learn new Trading System in ESO if they come from a AH back round & thus they ask for AH System to make life easier, I Used to be one of those people who came from a AH Back round. But in the end i realized you just need to learn the system in ESO and you will get by just fine and make your gold like everyone else. But then again it depends if the person is willing to "Earn / Work" for their in-Game Gold.Retired Guild Leader Of AMAZING DEALS OF TAMRIEL
Retired Guild Leader Of AMAZING DEALS OF NIRN
(ALL FACTION TRADE GUILDS)
PC NA SERVER
DC - DARKDROGO | ORC | STAM DK | LVL 50 | CP 1285
AD - DARK-GEARLT-OF-RIVIA | ALTMER | MAG SORC | LVL 50 | CP 1285
EP - DARK-ABYSS | DUNMER | MAG TEMP | LVL 50 | CP 1285
DC - REAPERS-CLOACK-OF-YASSASEEN | BRETON | MAG NB | LVL 50 | CP 1285
AD - DARK-SLADE-WILSON | KHAJIIT | STAM NB | LVL 50 | CP 585
AD - THE-LAST-DRUID-OF-PARANOR | ALTMER | MAG DK | LVL 50 | CP 1285
AD - GALADRIEL-LADY OF LIGHT | IMPERIAL | STAM SORC | LVL 50 | CP 1285
CONSOLE PS5 NA SERVER AS WELL0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »fastolfv_ESO wrote: »tamriel trade center probly has a huge impact on this, you no longer need the high traffic areas when ppl pull up the entire games listen items and then go to your location, so larger guilds pick crummy spots to save money and overbid which puts the pressure on the smaller guilds in the locations nobody wanted before
Most people don't use TTC. And they typically don't pull up TTC when looking for mundane things like mats.
I play on PC/EU where most people don't know about TTC. Not even the power sellers lol I can only assume that TTC is extremely useful for Console users, because they don't have access to MasterMerchant and AwesomeGuildstore addon.
Consoles can't even use TTC since they don't have access to mods.0 -
Montayva✭✭✭✭Too many comments to quote them all but:
Keep in mind Botting and the 'selling' of gold is becoming increasingly popular as well. Bots seem to be booming and websites selling game gold for irl cash are popping up everywhere.Edited by Montayva on July 13, 2017 3:09AMMontayva: EP, AD, DC Magplar | Mistress Montayva: AD, DC, EP Mag DK | Rharhey: EP, AD Mag Sorccrafters
Nirnrewt/ Nutella/Nirncrux: AD, EP, DC Stamblades+StamdensES Cosplayer wannabe
Beholder of the power to unleash the QAM HAM1 -
Kurkikohtaus wrote: »This is not the result of competition but of manipulation. There are "conglomerates" in the game, multiple trade guilds that are assembled under one umbrella. The various subsidiaries of the conglomerate push out smaller guilds from seemingly less interesting areas as part of a strategy to control the market and prices.
Another way in which the current mess of a trading system screws the little guy, in this case a smaller / newer guild who cannot compete with the big established ones for trader spots.
Way to promote community and social interaction ZoS.
I know of 3 conglomerates on PS4 NA. One cabal controls 22 guilds. A second cabal controls 10 guilds. A third cabal controllers 7 guilds. concur with your assertion in my discussion below:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/358979/stopping-trading-guilds-from-cheating/p1
14 AD Characters all 730CP+ (more info coming soon)
Vivat Veritas0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »Or they can just make an AH and be done with the horrid messed up pile of so called trading in this game.
Can you take your tears to a thread devoted to AH? Didn't cry babies create a new one this week? Or might as well cry about some dumb token system while you're at it.
We're discussing the current system, how it works and how to survive there. Please, don't turn it into another one of your crying parties. Vent/rant somewhere else.
From the looks of it people are crying not to get an AH, so basically your tearing as much as I am
No, I'm not. I'm just telling you to cry somewhere else, there are places and threads designed just for that. Here, I would like to read people talking about bidding - sharing impressions and info if they succeeded in this system. You can't argue that comments like yours bring zero value to this thread. In fact, negative value because they derail it.
And i'm telling you i'm not crying simply explaining how bad the current system is
And I'm telling you again - it IS crying and no one cares. THIS thread is not to discuss alternatives to the current system. And yes, you did cry and not "explained" anything. Re-read your comment. It's just passive-aggressive "waaa or they could add AH because this system is bad". Go to a weekly AH thread, please. Thanks.
I do. This system sucks. We are here to discuss this system, yes? Your own words. You'd be amazed how many people don't even bother with this system because of it's needless complexity. Think of how much material and goods aren't even in circulation simply because of the nonsense involved in trying move them.
No, we are here discuss the details of this system, not whether or not you like it. There are separate threads for that. Of course you do, and there's more crybabies who care. There's also a bunch of entitled crybabies asking to guarantee BiS vMA weapons for them. But neither of you belong to this thread period.lasertooth wrote: »Perhaps guild trading needs to be *nerfed, and perhaps ways to make in game gold [without botting] needs to be buffed.
*edited, effing autocorrect lol
If one doesn't cry but actually plays, he will see that there are tons of ways to make gold without trading already. Stealing and fencing stuff, selling undaunted plunder from trials. Or even simply grinding mobs and selling all that ornate stuff to a vendor.GreyWolf_79 wrote: »
I make well over 5k a week, in fact I easily make more than that in a day. The point is, why should I have to pay 5k in dues just to be able to sell stuff?
.
Because if you don't pay 5k you'll make less gold than if you pay. E.g. You make 10k gold selling in chat, you make 50k gold selling in guild, but have to pay 5k. 50k-5k=45k > 10k. Can't believe you seriously ask this question. Drop this scrub mentality. It doesn't belong to this game. And gold sinks are essential for the economy of games. Especially when it has so many ways of adding gold (listed above). You must take it out of the game or all prices will be unreasonably high, especially for new players.
Well, keep being in guilds with no requirements, I guess? It's your choice not to do anything, not invest to sell better. And then you expect to sell as much as people who actually put effort? Or are you saying that people who enjoy trading shouldn't have their effort rewarded? Then, I get it, you wouldn't mind if all the rewards you get in PvE - gear, titles, achievements, etc. - would be just handed out to everyone who wants them? Then I doubt that you're an old school pver, sorry.Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »
If I had to ballpark my total net worth on inventory alone and established MM value, it'd be something like 2-5M. And you know how much of that gold I'll ever see under the current system? Almost nothing. Right now, I'm in 2 trading guilds and one casual PvE guild. One trading guild is in a thieves' den where we get 0 sales every week, and the other just got outbid on our trader. I hate, hate HATE jumping through all these hoops to try and sell stuff. I don't see the point. I don't want to have to go seek out more trading guilds to be able to sell things, and be rewarded for my effort with steep dues and the chance those guilds will fail and leave me without an income.Drachenfier wrote: »I'm the same way. I have thousands upon thousands of crafting mats that just sit unused in my bag, and will probably remain there forever, and I keep adding to it as I go.
Join a guild, sell stuff, leave the guild until the next time. What's your problem? People figured that out literally years ago.There are dozens of guilds always recruiting, including guilds in good spots. Not that it matters, because crafting mats - if not overpriced - sell everywhere, even in outlaw refuges. Which btw I'm pretty sure that the previous guy overpriced his stuff if he couldn't sell.
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Crafts_Many_Boxes✭✭✭✭✭
Well, keep being in guilds with no requirements, I guess? It's your choice not to do anything, not invest to sell better. And then you expect to sell as much as people who actually put effort? Or are you saying that people who enjoy trading shouldn't have their effort rewarded? Then, I get it, you wouldn't mind if all the rewards you get in PvE - gear, titles, achievements, etc. - would be just handed out to everyone who wants them? Then I doubt that you're an old school pver, sorry.
My point is that, in other games, you don't need to jump through all of these hoops just to sell things. Selling your drops that you don't want should not be it's own minigame, because everything costs gold. If there were "fun bucks" that had no bearing on pvp or pve or anything, then by all means let's have this super in-depth trading system that requires huge amounts of time and attention. But that's not the case.
The fact that the same gold used to buy things I actually need for PvE is your currency for your "branch" of the game means that there needs to be some sort of compromise. It can't be all about your group, which right now it really is.
Inversely, endgame PvE provides nothing useful to traders, since all drops beyond public dungeons are bound (which they should be). We need your gold and the items you trade in, and you need nothing from our "side" of the game. In other games, raid content will also drop crafting materials so that traders have a vested interest as well, and "pure" pvers have some sort of income while still doing what they love with most of their free time. Maybe that's the long-term compromise, I dunno.
(and if trials actually do drop things traders can use, I apologize - I'm still working my way through vets and not there yet, but I feel like I would have read about / heard this somewhere)1 -
Belidos✭✭✭✭✭This is actually a good thing. The higher the price traders go for the better.
The more competitive trader spots get, the better the guild stores that inevitably make it in. The guilds will be put under increasing pressure to sell more (good for the economy).
You know what else is good for the economy? A centralized auction house. This current system, while we can all agree isn't going anywhere, is about as stupid a system as there can be.
I don't think an actual centralized auction house is needed, however hub locations that have a board that you can access to find items for sale and their location, still needing to actually travel there, and additional traders added to more remote areas would probably help alleviate some of the issues.0 -
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just think there should be some way that every player should have access to an ah system. To lock it behind the system we currently have is just boggling. It needs changing.They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd0