Bidding day - A Trade GMs worst Nightmare

Montayva

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Montayva wrote: »

just wondering why there seems to be such a sudden influx lately. For eg, we used to have a secured position in Skywatch for a few months, costing us 200-300k each week. Now it's difficult to win a bid on Bleakrock for 300k! Even with 480 members, a fully stocked store, paying that much for Bleakrock just doesn't seem viable for the meek 5-10 sales per hour we get, if that!

300k for Bleakrock? Do you even make that money back, there?

Hell no

lordhakai

Montayva wrote: »

So as someone who runs a pretty small and casual Trade guild, bidding Day has become an absolute nightmare! 6 months ago we could secure a great spot in one of the starter zones, now we're struggling to win bids of ridiculous amounts in all of the far less desirable, out-of-the-way places.

What's going on? Has there been a huge influx of Trading guilds competing for locations?

Thoughts?

Just curious what is the name of your guild

Montayva

Our guild is called Fundies in Undies


'Tis not a prank

lordhakai

Oh I heard about that guild.

morrowjen

Montayva wrote: »

Our guild is called Fundies in Undies


'Tis not a prank

lol. I've seen your trader several times.

Montayva

Sadly you will probably see it less for obvious reasons. We aren't a huge or serious trade guild, never have been. And have always been focused on helping people get started with the game. So obviously a bunch of players newer to the game aren't exactly hugely wealthy to help support the better locations, like other guilds are lucky to have. Our trader bids are mostly funded by officers

failkiwib16_ESO

@Shad0wfire99 when you set up for sale in a guild store - you have to pay 3% listing fee to ZOS(lost forever), 7% taxes to the guildbank.

The best middle-of-no-where-location sales I have ever seen was a trading guild earning 10 million a week in a refuge. The reason was that the leadership became desperate after loosing bid and having to hire a refuge trader, that they sold gold tempers extremely cheap to attract costumers to the refuge.... 7 million out of those 10 million sales were due to cheap gold tempers, the rest were regular member sales lol.

So basically the guild cashed in 700k in pure taxes from the total sales of that week, but their actual profit was in minus.

lordhakai

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

@Shad0wfire99 when you set up for sale in a guild store - you have to pay 3% listing fee to ZOS(lost forever), 7% taxes to the guildbank.

The best middle-of-no-where-location sales I have ever seen was a trading guild earning 10 million a week in a refuge. The reason was that the leadership became desperate after loosing bid and having to hire a refuge trader, that they sold gold tempers extremely cheap to attract costumers to the refuge.... 7 million out of those 10 million sales were due to cheap gold tempers, the rest were regular member sales lol.

So basically the guild cashed in 700k in pure taxes from the total sales of that week, but their actual profit was in minus.

You actually have your number wrong.

1% listing fee taken by game
7% taxes (guild gets 3.5%)

failkiwib16_ESO

lordhakai wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Many larger trading guilds already have build up chains, and some of the guilds are smaller in size. Due to funding from the main guilds, they can afford to secure a location for their smaller guild by overbidding.

There have also been a whole line of new-commer trading guilds and social trading guilds, so that also drove the competition up a little. The social and new-commer trading guilds are now moving into refuges, driving those bidding prices up by 200k-300k+ which is pretty much insane. These guilds don't even get half of their expenses covered by taxes, so the bidding gold either comes from donations from the members or the leaders' own pockets.
-woohooo pay 3k donation weekly to a guild, when your income is 30k at best. While players pay 3k donation at in better located trading guilds, and can easily earn 300k a week.

Many of these small guilds who have 0 items for sale in their store, but they pay 300k bids a week to secure a location are owned by larger trading guilds, and just secures a location for the main guild in case it looses bid. So basically when the major guild looses bid, they disband the small guild so the trader gets available and the major guild will just hire that trader.
-this problem can easily be fixed, if ZOS didn't allow a trader to be available if the guild that owns it disbands.

i am very against guild just taking spots if they dont have the membership to list items and it is a waste of both income the guild trader stall. I also agree that the practice of disbanding guild to free up a slot needs to stop it is an huge exploit of the trading systemy the needs fixed

@lordhakai;
This also pisses me off, all it takes ZOS is to prohibit the disbandment of a guild to free a trader, this will remove the incentive to place bids for false guilds. I used to run a small guild, and I always tried to get us a trader, so that the new players in the guild had a chance to learn how to trade in ESO.... and I lost bid a few times to guilds, who had 0 items for sale throughout a whole week.
Had I lost bid to someone else, who honestly intended to use that trader, I would never have complained about it.

failkiwib16_ESO

@lordhakai ah probably, since I gave up guildmastership I topped placing bids, the new GM does that now and I'm only an adviser role.

lordhakai

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

@lordhakai ah probably, since I gave up guildmastership I topped placing bids, the new GM does that now and I'm only an adviser role.

I figured I would just update the numbers so people understand how little a guild actually gets from taxes.

Urkraft

Montayva wrote: »

just wondering why there seems to be such a sudden influx lately. For eg, we used to have a secured position in Skywatch for a few months, costing us 200-300k each week. Now it's difficult to win a bid on Bleakrock for 300k! Even with 480 members, a fully stocked store, paying that much for Bleakrock just doesn't seem viable for the meek 5-10 sales per hour we get, if that!

too much goold running around.

Many larger trading guilds already have build up chains, and some of the guilds are smaller in size. Due to funding from the main guilds, they can afford to secure a location for their smaller guild by overbidding.

i dont know, from which server u are, i didnt experience it that. yeah, the settled guilds are in a good relation, but they usually do not fund smaller guilds. most gm i know are reasonable and know about the tax-donations-bids stuff and that a guild should run economically. also i recognized ambitious guilds and new gm beeing able to settle, if they did their work properly (recruiting, holding guild active, making it a good selling guild).

from my point of view a lot of new guilds put much pressure on the market also with gm, which are as example already known sellers with enough private background, so guilds can bid high, even if their bids are loss based, economically. i even know of at least one gm of a smaller guild on eu buying gold with rl money to support his bids.

also i recognized from many "newb" guilds, that the gm are totally clueless, of what their neighbor guilds make in sales, that they are clueless, what to expect from spots, they just dont do their homework and whine about increased bids and bid like 1,2 or 3 million on spots, whose clients needs they can't fullfill with a low trading activity.

i dont think the te is one of those, he is just victim of this problem.

Many of these small guilds who have 0 items for sale in their store, but they pay 300k bids a week to secure a location are owned by larger trading guilds, and just secures a location for the main guild in case it looses bid.

not on eu. promised. if you're talking bout na, i have no clue.

SamboJ

Keep the eyes peeled, do the research, play the market, kick the infiltrators & call the bluffs. Weekly bidding is a hustled double-shot of anxiety with a chaser of regret.

Dragonnord

Bots farming and making huge amounts of gold is the problem.

chess1ukb16_ESO

The main issue in my opinion is that gold supply is increasing too quickly causing a number of knock on effects and consequences. Housing mitigated the problem for a time as it provided a significant gold sink but most people have their house now and we need something more to limit the money supply.

The increase in gold means there are a largish group of players with a lot more gold and a subset of them are interested in running/helping Trading Guilds and start supporting small, non profitable traders make competitive bids. Nothing wrong with this in isolation but when it happens across the game it causes wide spread instability and makes it much harder for newer guilds to get on the ladder unless they have one or more of these rich benefactors.

chess1ukb16_ESO

CarbonX wrote: »

Bots farming and making huge amounts of gold is the problem.

Agreed. This is definitely a massive factor and the reason Trade Gm's are so frustrated with ZoS.

It used to be this illgotten gold was funnelled only to gold sellers but now we are seeing them prop up shell Trade guilds; ousting strong and established Trade guilds that cannot compete with that level of income. My guild makes about 8m a week income and even we could not compete with this levelling of cheating if its not stopped.

Pallmor

Don't know about conglomerates, but Tamriel Trade Center has definitely made even the smaller traders a lot more desirable lately (and emphasized just how few available guild trader locations there really are in this game).

This only highlights how much this game needs a general auction house, open to all.

GDOFWR420

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

+1m bids in Rawlka or Mournhold or gtfo. Bid big or go home. Try maintaining these huge bids for over a year. L2collude.

Yea my guild is in mournhold and it's not cheap by no means. Couple mill a week at least.

Romo

Blanco wrote: »

This is actually a good thing. The higher the price traders go for the better.

The more competitive trader spots get, the better the guild stores that inevitably make it in. The guilds will be put under increasing pressure to sell more (good for the economy).

Not good for "the economy", only good for the "end game economy". New peeps have no where to go to get trader stuff at their levels.

RANKK7

lordhakai wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Many larger trading guilds already have build up chains, and some of the guilds are smaller in size. Due to funding from the main guilds, they can afford to secure a location for their smaller guild by overbidding.
...
Many of these small guilds who have 0 items for sale in their store, but they pay 300k bids a week to secure a location are owned by larger trading guilds, and just secures a location for the main guild in case it looses bid. So basically when the major guild looses bid, they disband the small guild so the trader gets available and the major guild will just hire that trader.
-this problem can easily be fixed, if ZOS didn't allow a trader to be available if the guild that owns it disbands.

i am very against guild just taking spots if they dont have the membership to list items and it is a waste of both income the guild trader stall. I also agree that the practice of disbanding guild to free up a slot needs to stop it is an huge exploit of the trading system the needs fixed

In the hope for a fix asap.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Urkraft

RANKK7 wrote: »

lordhakai wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Many larger trading guilds already have build up chains, and some of the guilds are smaller in size. Due to funding from the main guilds, they can afford to secure a location for their smaller guild by overbidding.
...
Many of these small guilds who have 0 items for sale in their store, but they pay 300k bids a week to secure a location are owned by larger trading guilds, and just secures a location for the main guild in case it looses bid. So basically when the major guild looses bid, they disband the small guild so the trader gets available and the major guild will just hire that trader.
-this problem can easily be fixed, if ZOS didn't allow a trader to be available if the guild that owns it disbands.

i am very against guild just taking spots if they dont have the membership to list items and it is a waste of both income the guild trader stall. I also agree that the practice of disbanding guild to free up a slot needs to stop it is an huge exploit of the trading system the needs fixed

In the hope for a fix asap.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler

they didnt fix it, even though its known for a while now. they dont fix every other stuff around the trading system as well. why would they fix it now. i appriate your hope, that you linking some zos people will help, but it wont. let's face it

GreyWolf_79

LOL I've actually been wanting to join a trading guild to sell all of my excess recipes and motifs and such... but most trading guilds want 5-10k a week in membership dues, which is not surprising if the trading spots are actually going for millions. But after searching through some of the guild stores, I realize that very few items actually sell for that much. Been picking up recipes for less than 100 gold - ones that I already had of course, but hey, at those prices I can't afford NOT to buy them. Only the really rare recipes make any money. So then I have to ask myself. If most of what I have to sell are common items that aren't worth very much, and aren't guaranteed to sell even at discount prices, how can I possibly justify paying some guild 5-10k every week just for the "great opportunity" of being able to sell junk that most people probably don't even want? Or even if they do want it, most people don't feel like running to 10 different cities and checking 50 different guild traders to see who has what and for how much.

I'm sorry, I know many of you love your whole "guild trader" system and you have a big list of reasons why global auction house = bad, niche hidden mom and pop stores that you have to travel 1000 miles to find = good... I'm all for small businesses and everything, but at what point do even small businesses end up being taken over by "little big guys"? You're all so worried about a "global economy" ruining your local economies, and yet the cutthroats among you are already ruining your local economy. It's become a system of "you have to have money to make money", and even then you won't make a dime if someone else has more money than you. Which is ironically NO DIFFERENT AT ALL FROM GAMES THAT HAVE GLOBAL AUCTION HOUSES. The only difference is that ESO's guild trader system is 100% pay to play, which actually hurts the poorest players far more than a global auction house ever could.

Anyway, that's my two cents (with taxes and fees, that comes to tree fitty). /rant now, so that all the trading guilds can return to their regularly scheduled programming of trying to convince the filthy nonbelievers that open global economies that allow everyone, rich or poor, to participate in, are EVIL!!!

GCVDJ11T

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Many of these small guilds who have 0 items for sale in their store, but they pay 300k bids a week to secure a location are owned by larger trading guilds, and just secures a location for the main guild in case it looses bid. So basically when the major guild looses bid, they disband the small guild so the trader gets available and the major guild will just hire that trader.

-this problem can easily be fixed, if ZOS didn't allow a trader to be available if the guild that owns it disbands.

100% agree.... if a guild wins the bid then disbands the guild then that spot should sit empty for that week. It would immediately stop this from happening.

SilverWF

GreyWolf_79 wrote: »

LOL I've actually been wanting to join a trading guild to sell all of my excess recipes and motifs and such... but most trading guilds want 5-10k a week in membership dues, which is not surprising if the trading spots are actually going for millions. But after searching through some of the guild stores, I realize that very few items actually sell for that much. Been picking up recipes for less than 100 gold - ones that I already had of course, but hey, at those prices I can't afford NOT to buy them. Only the really rare recipes make any money. So then I have to ask myself. If most of what I have to sell are common items that aren't worth very much, and aren't guaranteed to sell even at discount prices, how can I possibly justify paying some guild 5-10k every week just for the "great opportunity" of being able to sell junk that most people probably don't even want? Or even if they do want it, most people don't feel like running to 10 different cities and checking 50 different guild traders to see who has what and for how much.

I'm sorry, I know many of you love your whole "guild trader" system and you have a big list of reasons why global auction house = bad, niche hidden mom and pop stores that you have to travel 1000 miles to find = good... I'm all for small businesses and everything, but at what point do even small businesses end up being taken over by "little big guys"? You're all so worried about a "global economy" ruining your local economies, and yet the cutthroats among you are already ruining your local economy. It's become a system of "you have to have money to make money", and even then you won't make a dime if someone else has more money than you. Which is ironically NO DIFFERENT AT ALL FROM GAMES THAT HAVE GLOBAL AUCTION HOUSES. The only difference is that ESO's guild trader system is 100% pay to play, which actually hurts the poorest players far more than a global auction house ever could.

Anyway, that's my two cents (with taxes and fees, that comes to tree fitty). /rant now, so that all the trading guilds can return to their regularly scheduled programming of trying to convince the filthy nonbelievers that open global economies that allow everyone, rich or poor, to participate in, are EVIL!!!

Absolutely true.
That guys, who against global AH are only care on filling their own pockets
But global AH would help to ANY player and would ruin their monopoly, sure.

asa67dragoneb17_ESO

Hmm....Well, I`m struggling to get even 100k a week, by selling everything that gods of random trow at me, and you speak about problems of million for " better spot ", ouch, I don`t want your problems XD

P.S. If saying about buying instead of selling, damn just use TTC website, you can find cheapest item on sale, and it will tell you where. I never buy overpriced stuff after finding that website.

Jailbirdy

Most successful guilds have opened new guilds to expand. One guild I am a member in for the past 2 years now runs 5 guilds and I don't think they will stop there.

A casual player really doesn't have the time to run a guild and most of the casual players (console) don't play enough to get extra items to sell and maintain the 10K a week dues. While there are exceptions to that statement, it does fit the majority of the people in our social guild.

ZOS doesn't want to change the system, but I think they should look at some complimentary alternatives for a selling outlet. (and casual players do not want to stand in a populated zone trying to text spam sales when they only have a couple hours a day and can't afford the cost of current trader dues, they also do not have the time to spend an extra hour or two a day looking through the internet for a possible trade)


While I have the time to invest in trade guilds and sales on two accounts, I empathize with those who have a family and time consuming jobs. I hope they entertain the possibility of an alternative solution to an economy that is becoming "monopoly centered".

JKorr

GreyWolf_79 wrote: »

LOL I've actually been wanting to join a trading guild to sell all of my excess recipes and motifs and such... but most trading guilds want 5-10k a week in membership dues, which is not surprising if the trading spots are actually going for millions. But after searching through some of the guild stores, I realize that very few items actually sell for that much. Been picking up recipes for less than 100 gold - ones that I already had of course, but hey, at those prices I can't afford NOT to buy them. Only the really rare recipes make any money. So then I have to ask myself. If most of what I have to sell are common items that aren't worth very much, and aren't guaranteed to sell even at discount prices, how can I possibly justify paying some guild 5-10k every week just for the "great opportunity" of being able to sell junk that most people probably don't even want? Or even if they do want it, most people don't feel like running to 10 different cities and checking 50 different guild traders to see who has what and for how much.

I'm sorry, I know many of you love your whole "guild trader" system and you have a big list of reasons why global auction house = bad, niche hidden mom and pop stores that you have to travel 1000 miles to find = good... I'm all for small businesses and everything, but at what point do even small businesses end up being taken over by "little big guys"? You're all so worried about a "global economy" ruining your local economies, and yet the cutthroats among you are already ruining your local economy. It's become a system of "you have to have money to make money", and even then you won't make a dime if someone else has more money than you. Which is ironically NO DIFFERENT AT ALL FROM GAMES THAT HAVE GLOBAL AUCTION HOUSES. The only difference is that ESO's guild trader system is 100% pay to play, which actually hurts the poorest players far more than a global auction house ever could.

Anyway, that's my two cents (with taxes and fees, that comes to tree fitty). /rant now, so that all the trading guilds can return to their regularly scheduled programming of trying to convince the filthy nonbelievers that open global economies that allow everyone, rich or poor, to participate in, are EVIL!!!

LOL what the heck kind of trade guild are you looking at?

I'm in 4 guilds. 1 is a trading guild. 2 of them try for and usually get traders. Another one does sometimes. Guess what. Total dues for my guilds=0. Nothing. No gold, no required sales. The trading guild does have a voluntary raffle, and auction. The other one that usually gets a trader doesn't. I'll guess that the gm/officers donate from their own pockets. For the one guild I donate items for auction prizes and buy raffle tickets. I do sell some stuff, but not much. The other one that usually has a trader I don't usually have anything up for sale. There are usually slots open in both guilds. How is that preventing anyone from joining and selling whatever they want? I wouldn't bother to sell anything at all if there was a global auction house. I wouldn't be buying much either because desirable items would be priced totally out of my budget.

drakhan2002_ESO

JKorr wrote: »

I'm in 4 guilds. 1 is a trading guild. 2 of them try for and usually get traders. Another one does sometimes. Guess what. Total dues for my guilds=0. Nothing. No gold, no required sales. The trading guild does have a voluntary raffle, and auction. The other one that usually gets a trader doesn't. I'll guess that the gm/officers donate from their own pockets. For the one guild I donate items for auction prizes and buy raffle tickets. I do sell some stuff, but not much. The other one that usually has a trader I don't usually have anything up for sale. There are usually slots open in both guilds. How is that preventing anyone from joining and selling whatever they want? I wouldn't bother to sell anything at all if there was a global auction house. I wouldn't be buying much either because desirable items would be priced totally out of my budget.

I am a member of 2 trade guilds on PC/NA. One rather large and well-known and a slightly smaller one. I've been with both of them for about 2 years or so now.

The 'larger' trade guild does have requirements - either: 5,000 gold per week donated to the guild bank or 100,000 gold in sales per week. Recently, the smaller one let us know that we now need to donate 3,000 gold per week to the guild bank.

My problem is I have many friends in the smaller trade guild, but most of my income comes from the larger guild. It pains me to know that I have part with an additional 3,000 gold per week in order to stay in a guild I really like...

Anyway, it's getting out of hand -- not only is obtain a guild merchant a problem, but being a member of a trade guild is becoming one...

Karm1cOne

A simple fix, for the short term anyway, is to increase the number of traders in locations like rawlka. It will alleviate pressure and open slots for additional guilds. If they tied the number to a percentage of players subbed or some way to keep up with additional demand, it would be best.

Crafts_Many_Boxes

I've been saying this ever since I started playing, but the guild trader system is terrible. It creates nightmare scenarios like this and creates huge entry barriers for new players. And if you're a casual player? Forget ever selling any of your items lol. How is this a healthy system?

I've also said this before, but I'd rather have a dumpster fire of an economy that is all-inclusive (global or even regional AH) than the elite boys' club that we have now.