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[NEW] (Videos) Dracarys - Where the Flames Converge - Waking Flame Patch
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Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »The Destro Ult meta is trash and until that ability is toned down we won't see any real tactical group maneuvers beyond baiting ults/dumping ults/side swiping groups with ults.
Its completely different in GVG situations imo, Destro ulti is really easy to predict and counter in smaller fights (speaking like 12v12) which is why it would be nice to do some.
Also Destro meta is exactly the same as all others previous bombing has been a thing since forever, mainly 1.6 with introduction of proxy
It's easy to predict because that's what groups do when fighting groups: bomb with destro ults and drop negates. It's not like guilds are doing anything else to draw damage from. Organized PvP in this game is really just organizing Destro Ults and Negates (and to a lesser extent, permafrost).
I'd be interested if your experience during organised GVG's this patch was different to mine but having done 4-5 organised GVG's this patch destro ulti made no impact upon the fight's outcome. This was both 8v8 and 12v12 (although majority was 8v8)
The only situation during GVGs where destro did make an impact was during our bridgewars GvG
Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on July 6, 2017 9:02PM@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭asneakybanana wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »The Destro Ult meta is trash and until that ability is toned down we won't see any real tactical group maneuvers beyond baiting ults/dumping ults/side swiping groups with ults.
Its completely different in GVG situations imo, Destro ulti is really easy to predict and counter in smaller fights (speaking like 12v12) which is why it would be nice to do some.
Also Destro meta is exactly the same as all others previous bombing has been a thing since forever, mainly 1.6 with introduction of proxy
It's easy to predict because that's what groups do when fighting groups: bomb with destro ults and drop negates. It's not like guilds are doing anything else to draw damage from. Organized PvP in this game is really just organizing Destro Ults and Negates (and to a lesser extent, permafrost).
Yeah the bomb meta is nothing new but Destro Ult was a significant boost in damage to ball groups. It would be nice to see some diversification of ultimates again (Veils, Banners, Novas etc.), but those ults are only used by small groups in small spaces now.
Banner hasn't been used in groups since 1.6, same with Nova, for negates they were useless until their buff with thieves guild. In 1.6 meta was meteor, bats, and barrier, nothing with that meta changed until the barrier nerf and negate buff. Whether you were meteor bombing, barrier spamming or, bat balling it's always been about organising Ults and kiting until you're in an advantageous situation, meaning Ults up and choking the enemy group. The most dynamic the meta ever was was pre 1.6 and in the time after the negate buff and before destro was released but even then all a good group had to do was matter negate and time proc tethers together. If they nerf destro it will just turn into the same meta but with meteors and sleet storm and negate. That's just how the game is played most efficiently, kiting and building ult then ult bombing.
Obviously we're still going to use ultimates no matter what so I'm not sure what your point is there. But as far as comparing Destro Ult to things like Meteor, etc. - at least meteor and those other ultimates are blockable or stationary, if not both. Those things alone would alter the current playstyle significantly.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT1 -
Sanct16✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Organized PvP in this game is really just organizing Destro Ults and Negates (and to a lesser extent, permafrost).
I guess your guild isn't very organised then.- EU - Raid Leader of Banana Zerg Squad
AD | AR 50 | Sanct Fir'eheal | ex Mana DK @31.10.2015
EP | AR 50 | Sanctosaurus | Mana NB
AD | AR 44 | rekt ya | Mana NB
AD | AR 41 | Sanct Thunderstorm | Mana Sorc
EP | AR 36 | S'na'ct | Mana NB {NA}
AD | AR 29 | Captain Full Fist| Stam DK
AD | AR 29 | Sanct The Dark Phoenix| Stam Sorc
EP | AR 16 | Horny Sanct | Stam Warden
EP | AR 16 | Sánct Bánáná Sláyér | Mana DK
DC | AR 13 | ad worst faction eu | Stam Sorc
DC | AR 13 | Lagendary Sanct | Mana NB
>320.000.000 AP4 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »The Destro Ult meta is trash and until that ability is toned down we won't see any real tactical group maneuvers beyond baiting ults/dumping ults/side swiping groups with ults.
Its completely different in GVG situations imo, Destro ulti is really easy to predict and counter in smaller fights (speaking like 12v12) which is why it would be nice to do some.
Also Destro meta is exactly the same as all others previous bombing has been a thing since forever, mainly 1.6 with introduction of proxy
It's easy to predict because that's what groups do when fighting groups: bomb with destro ults and drop negates. It's not like guilds are doing anything else to draw damage from. Organized PvP in this game is really just organizing Destro Ults and Negates (and to a lesser extent, permafrost).
I'd be interested if your experience during organised GVG's this patch was different to mine but having done 4-5 organised GVG's this patch destro ulti made no impact upon the fight's outcome. This was both 8v8 and 12v12 (although majority was 8v8)
The only situation during GVGs where destro did make an impact was during our bridgewars GvG
Destro Ulti had no impact on the fight's outcome because you weren't using it? If you were using it, which I assume you were, how do you establish that its use didn't affect the outcome? I understand that well-placed Negates are critical, but presumably your damage had to come from somewhere too.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
Rin_Senya✭✭✭✭Lieblingsjunge wrote: »[Sorry to OP for further derailing the thread by responding to an irrelevant topic.]
It's ok!
tbh we're glad to have some interesting and productive discussions going on here about guilds and group gameplay. Edited by Rin_Senya on July 6, 2017 9:11PMAnairi ~ EP | NA | AR50 - Dracarys
Anaire ~ AD/EP | EU | AR50 - Banana Squad/Zerg Squad/AOE Rats2 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »The Destro Ult meta is trash and until that ability is toned down we won't see any real tactical group maneuvers beyond baiting ults/dumping ults/side swiping groups with ults.
Its completely different in GVG situations imo, Destro ulti is really easy to predict and counter in smaller fights (speaking like 12v12) which is why it would be nice to do some.
Also Destro meta is exactly the same as all others previous bombing has been a thing since forever, mainly 1.6 with introduction of proxy
It's easy to predict because that's what groups do when fighting groups: bomb with destro ults and drop negates. It's not like guilds are doing anything else to draw damage from. Organized PvP in this game is really just organizing Destro Ults and Negates (and to a lesser extent, permafrost).
I'd be interested if your experience during organised GVG's this patch was different to mine but having done 4-5 organised GVG's this patch destro ulti made no impact upon the fight's outcome. This was both 8v8 and 12v12 (although majority was 8v8)
The only situation during GVGs where destro did make an impact was during our bridgewars GvG
Destro Ulti had no impact on the fight's outcome because you weren't using it? If you were using it, which I assume you were, how do you establish that its use didn't affect the outcome? I understand that well-placed Negates are critical, but presumably your damage had to come from somewhere too.
Well in the GVG we had one group with 4 nb bombers and another group with 2. Initially my group (2 bombers) struggled due to our tactics, however we won the last 3 rounds to go 2 - 3 because we changed what we were doing and in a purely GVG situation with no res's and no pugs then destro ulti is weak compared to others.
@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)0 -
Lieblingsjunge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »The Destro Ult meta is trash and until that ability is toned down we won't see any real tactical group maneuvers beyond baiting ults/dumping ults/side swiping groups with ults.
Its completely different in GVG situations imo, Destro ulti is really easy to predict and counter in smaller fights (speaking like 12v12) which is why it would be nice to do some.
Also Destro meta is exactly the same as all others previous bombing has been a thing since forever, mainly 1.6 with introduction of proxy
It's easy to predict because that's what groups do when fighting groups: bomb with destro ults and drop negates. It's not like guilds are doing anything else to draw damage from. Organized PvP in this game is really just organizing Destro Ults and Negates (and to a lesser extent, permafrost).
I'd be interested if your experience during organised GVG's this patch was different to mine but having done 4-5 organised GVG's this patch destro ulti made no impact upon the fight's outcome. This was both 8v8 and 12v12 (although majority was 8v8)
The only situation during GVGs where destro did make an impact was during our bridgewars GvG
Destro Ulti had no impact on the fight's outcome because you weren't using it? If you were using it, which I assume you were, how do you establish that its use didn't affect the outcome? I understand that well-placed Negates are critical, but presumably your damage had to come from somewhere too.
Well in the GVG we had one group with 4 nb bombers and another group with 2. Initially my group (2 bombers) struggled due to our tactics, however we won the last 3 rounds to go 2 - 3 because we changed what we were doing and in a purely GVG situation with no res's and no pugs then destro ulti is weak compared to others.
This. In a GvG destro ultimates doesn't really matter that much. A lot of other factors are more important like e.g. focus / when do you engage / when do you not engage / killing off that one guy in the back when you're running around on an open field waiting for the perfect moment to engage. It's a patience-game - it's a lot more to it than negates and destros. Even though it might not look like it.
I'll try and make an example that might make it clearer: How a teacher is seen from a pupil's pov: Has rehearsed information. Shares information. Tells us what to do. Repeats the same over and over.
How a teacher actually works: Spends 2-3 hours planning the entire week with colleagues / team. Spends more hours planning meetings with pupils / parents. Assesses' pupils' work. Comes up with creative ways to teach subject X. Getting called at 10 in the evening by a parent who's concerned about their kid's bad grades.
^Pretty much the same goes for organised guild-groups too. It looks really easy on the outside - but when you play in a competitive one, well. It's a lotof work / preparation / organisation / communication and so on.Ignorance is the greatest weapon of tyranny.
PC - EU.
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Officer/Sandwitch of Zerg Squad
My title: The Maneater, Destroyer of Maneuvers, Bane of Potatoes, she who devours them, The Black Hole, the humorless, first of her name.2 -
Vincelex✭✭✭To echo earlier sentiments any attention Group/Guild play gets would be awesome from any perspective. I would personally would love to see videos from any and all organized groups within Cyrodill. The 1vx and small scale perspective is very over-saturated and while it seems like the only way to be good at the game is to 1vx or 2vx or etc, group play has lots of skill involved and it would be great if we got bigger as a community.
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Ghost-Shot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »The Destro Ult meta is trash and until that ability is toned down we won't see any real tactical group maneuvers beyond baiting ults/dumping ults/side swiping groups with ults.
Its completely different in GVG situations imo, Destro ulti is really easy to predict and counter in smaller fights (speaking like 12v12) which is why it would be nice to do some.
Also Destro meta is exactly the same as all others previous bombing has been a thing since forever, mainly 1.6 with introduction of proxy
It's easy to predict because that's what groups do when fighting groups: bomb with destro ults and drop negates. It's not like guilds are doing anything else to draw damage from. Organized PvP in this game is really just organizing Destro Ults and Negates (and to a lesser extent, permafrost).
I'd be interested if your experience during organised GVG's this patch was different to mine but having done 4-5 organised GVG's this patch destro ulti made no impact upon the fight's outcome. This was both 8v8 and 12v12 (although majority was 8v8)
The only situation during GVGs where destro did make an impact was during our bridgewars GvG
Destro Ulti had no impact on the fight's outcome because you weren't using it? If you were using it, which I assume you were, how do you establish that its use didn't affect the outcome? I understand that well-placed Negates are critical, but presumably your damage had to come from somewhere too.
Well in the GVG we had one group with 4 nb bombers and another group with 2. Initially my group (2 bombers) struggled due to our tactics, however we won the last 3 rounds to go 2 - 3 because we changed what we were doing and in a purely GVG situation with no res's and no pugs then destro ulti is weak compared to others.
This. In a GvG destro ultimates doesn't really matter that much. A lot of other factors are more important like e.g. focus / when do you engage / when do you not engage / killing off that one guy in the back when you're running around on an open field waiting for the perfect moment to engage. It's a patience-game - it's a lot more to it than negates and destros. Even though it might not look like it.
I'll try and make an example that might make it clearer: How a teacher is seen from a pupil's pov: Has rehearsed information. Shares information. Tells us what to do. Repeats the same over and over.
How a teacher actually works: Spends 2-3 hours planning the entire week with colleagues / team. Spends more hours planning meetings with pupils / parents. Assesses' pupils' work. Comes up with creative ways to teach subject X. Getting called at 10 in the evening by a parent who's concerned about their kid's bad grades.
^Pretty much the same goes for organised guild-groups too. It looks really easy on the outside - but when you play in a competitive one, well. It's a lotof work / preparation / organisation / communication and so on.
I have it on good authority that an organised group is nothing brainless one button spammers, a ganker told me so.5 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hope people arent argueing that there's no difference between destro ulti and other damage ultimates.
It's a high damage PBAoE DoT with a big radius. Much easier to line up and stack than simple burst ultis like soul tether. And I'd love to see people try to kill anything with a plague doctor + vicious death setup using soul tether instead of eye of the storm. Eye of the storm completely outperforms the alternatives.
Saying the introduction of destro ulti changed nothing is downright disingenuous. Guild play changed dramatically after 1T. Stamina builds completely useless for anything except support. Bombblades with destro ulti are miles ahead of any other group damage spec.
Still remember the first few weeks after 1T and how untouchable the groups that started stacking nothing but destro ultis the earliest were.4 -
Texas✭✭✭Ghost-Shot wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Minnesinger wrote: »Wonder if after 3 years most don´t even bother to watch these videos if there is promise of drama. Either you know someone or are yourself in a video. Otherwise, there isn´t much else to offer. Sadly, NA has lost many of its competitive players to really have equally good groups running into each other.
This is the main reason why we try to show our group v group fights rather than just pug farming because they are generally more interesting to watch and its nice to record too.
Also we want to encourage participation don't really see many guilds posting vids here and yet many guilds are playing (especially on NA)
We have some videos, Bulb and Steve have always made a point of rarely posting videos on these forums though. Kirin just put one up on his youtube a few days ago.
It is nice to see videos of guild fights though, too many pug farms get posted lol.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=YE_I8isnTsE[/url] Vehemence Mindless Zergling
All Classes and All Factions3 -
Rin_Senya✭✭✭✭Hope people arent argueing that there's no difference between destro ulti and other damage ultimates.
It's a high damage PBAoE DoT with a big radius. Much easier to line up and stack than simple burst ultis like soul tether. And I'd love to see people try to kill anything with a plague doctor + vicious death setup using soul tether instead of eye of the storm. Eye of the storm completely outperforms the alternatives.
Saying the introduction of destro ulti changed nothing is downright disingenuous. Guild play changed dramatically after 1T. Stamina builds completely useless for anything except support. Bombblades with destro ulti are miles ahead of any other group damage spec.
Still remember the first few weeks after 1T and how untouchable the groups that started stacking nothing but destro ultis the earliest were.
No one is arguing about how OP destro ultimate is. People are just saying that GVG (and organised group play in general) isn't only about destro ultis+negate spam, it's much more than this (specifically in the example of pure organised gvg) and Lieb made a good point explaining why.
The reason for saying this is because the assumption that GVG is pointless because of destro isn't correct.
also:
I agree but I know some ppl would argue with you about this statement and tell that it's "probably just your l2p issue"Bombblades with destro ulti are miles ahead of any other group damage spec.
Anairi ~ EP | NA | AR50 - Dracarys
Anaire ~ AD/EP | EU | AR50 - Banana Squad/Zerg Squad/AOE Rats1 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ghost-Shot wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Minnesinger wrote: »Wonder if after 3 years most don´t even bother to watch these videos if there is promise of drama. Either you know someone or are yourself in a video. Otherwise, there isn´t much else to offer. Sadly, NA has lost many of its competitive players to really have equally good groups running into each other.
This is the main reason why we try to show our group v group fights rather than just pug farming because they are generally more interesting to watch and its nice to record too.
Also we want to encourage participation don't really see many guilds posting vids here and yet many guilds are playing (especially on NA)
We have some videos, Bulb and Steve have always made a point of rarely posting videos on these forums though. Kirin just put one up on his youtube a few days ago.
It is nice to see videos of guild fights though, too many pug farms get posted lol.https://youtube.com/watch?v=YE_I8isnTsE[/url]
Nice to see thanks I always wondered how many people you had compared to our group's size. Its nice that you can see the other dc around too so can compare how it looks from our side and yours.
I encourage you guys upload more where you are outnumbered or smaller groups (but its nice to see gameplay of any size). For me its nice to see how each group member is contributing. Will look forward to your post if you want to make one.Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on July 6, 2017 11:13PM@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)3 -
Vilestride✭✭✭✭✭
This is hilarious. I am sorry that I cannot specify why but good post, and thank you.It's a high damage PBAoE DoT with a big radius. Much easier to line up and stack than simple burst ultis like soul tether. And I'd love to see people try to kill anything with a plague doctor + vicious death setup using soul tether instead of eye of the storm. Eye of the storm completely outperforms the alternatives.
The general consensus seems to be to the contrary but I would agree that EOTF is one of the less effective ults against opposing organised raids. You probably still want 1 or 2 but focus on the rest of your group composition is far more important.
Indirectly I would argue that negate does more damage than EOTF. Speaking from a healers perspective. You can out heal an EOTF bomb 1 for 1, especially with 30k+ health. Being negated is where you loose out. Overall I think we are being reductive of the skills involved in group play.
Timing your Damage ults and negates is 101 basics sure. More important than this though is a whole list of other skills that need to fall in line.
Movement: IMO is number 1. If you don't/can't move effectively you will loose.
Prediction: number 2. Anticipating and remembering the behaviours of other groups/guilds. As far as ults no one has even mentioned how important Remembrance is, especially in GvG situations to counter bombs.
Intuition: Crown can't literally say everything a group needs to do. Think of a group as 1 body in a fight, Crown being the brain. If I want to kick someone I am not thinking the words, "Kick them here". It just happens. My legs and my hands know what I want to do, and it flows naturally. This Analogy plays out in group situations. The less intuition your group has the more sluggish and disorganised your group will be.
Edited by Vilestride on July 7, 2017 3:38AM0 -
Nivellan✭✭✭Hope people arent argueing that there's no difference between destro ulti and other damage ultimates.
It's a high damage PBAoE DoT with a big radius. Much easier to line up and stack than simple burst ultis like soul tether. And I'd love to see people try to kill anything with a plague doctor + vicious death setup using soul tether instead of eye of the storm. Eye of the storm completely outperforms the alternatives.
Saying the introduction of destro ulti changed nothing is downright disingenuous. Guild play changed dramatically after 1T. Stamina builds completely useless for anything except support. Bombblades with destro ulti are miles ahead of any other group damage spec.
Still remember the first few weeks after 1T and how untouchable the groups that started stacking nothing but destro ultis the earliest were.
No one is arguing about how OP destro ultimate is. People are just saying that GVG (and organised group play in general) isn't only about destro ultis+negate spam, it's much more than this (specifically in the example of pure organised gvg) and Lieb made a good point explaining why.
The reason for saying this is because the assumption that GVG is pointless because of destro isn't correct.
also:
I agree but I know some ppl would argue with you about this statement and tell that it's "probably just your l2p issue"Bombblades with destro ulti are miles ahead of any other group damage spec.
It pretty much is though. I have a lot of respect for the the guilds that play right now, but we're deluding ourselves to say this meta takes a lot of skill or coordination even. I'm not saying a gvg scenario is going to be a coin flip... just it's a lot more mindless than before.
I've been in two situations that were essntially GvG's against Dracarys/Haxus. One time recently with a group of players that hadn't played together since the first week of Morrowind(and before that not since for 2 weeks when one tamriel came out), and a second with a group of players that literally never play together but randomly one day they all wanted to. Both were easy wipes of a very organized guild that I like very much. If group play takes a lot of skill and coordination to be successful those things don't happen.
Also as for sneaky... ults like nova, tether, banner, and negate pre-buff were used a lot. Leap too. The only guild at the first NA GvG not using those ults lost both of their matches and I'm pretty sure it was your guild sneaky.PC NA
Azandara, Azuretha - Templar
Former K-hole, FMC, Mischevious0 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Ghost-Shot wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Minnesinger wrote: »Wonder if after 3 years most don´t even bother to watch these videos if there is promise of drama. Either you know someone or are yourself in a video. Otherwise, there isn´t much else to offer. Sadly, NA has lost many of its competitive players to really have equally good groups running into each other.
This is the main reason why we try to show our group v group fights rather than just pug farming because they are generally more interesting to watch and its nice to record too.
Also we want to encourage participation don't really see many guilds posting vids here and yet many guilds are playing (especially on NA)
We have some videos, Bulb and Steve have always made a point of rarely posting videos on these forums though. Kirin just put one up on his youtube a few days ago.
It is nice to see videos of guild fights though, too many pug farms get posted lol.https://youtube.com/watch?v=YE_I8isnTsE[/url]
Nice to see thanks I always wondered how many people you had compared to our group's size. Its nice that you can see the other dc around too so can compare how it looks from our side and yours.
I encourage you guys upload more where you are outnumbered or smaller groups (but its nice to see gameplay of any size). For me its nice to see how each group member is contributing. Will look forward to your post if you want to make one.
We don't really record in general, but occasionally someone like Blaze or Teargrants will get a good fight. Destro meta as a whole has been uninspiring, our regular video takers don't rly make em anymore. Always some good oldies on Books' channel if you wanna see em tho.
RE gameplay of any size, we absolutely outnumber you on most occasions, so the fight you're looking at was likely highlighted as one of those rare ones where we were close. 17 of you, 20 of us in group and a few afks, open field in enemy territory; just about the only fights worth having these days lol.
I too dislike how ppl can get lazy and "hide" in a larger group and stop contributing to the max potential, which is why running smaller groups time to time is beneficial. But overall you can't really do much as a small group. You can get good farms, get some good bombs in, etc. But you can't push anything defended, you can't really just go out and front lines it alone. The best thing a small group can do is defend keeps, they can be extremely effective at that. But when I get on I look to push the map and sitting in a keep waiting to bomb ppl running through the front door just doesn't accomplish that
. Tho in this I will admit, VE is a bit of a dinosaur. All the old big guilds we played against for the map and for fights are gone. It is a source of sadness to me that pretty much all the good players left in the game gathered into small guilds and small groups and gave up playing for the map beyond defending the occasional keep and zergsurfing. Tis the state of the game serverwide and I do not like it. Edited by Satiar on July 7, 2017 4:51AMVehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost1 -
Drummerx04✭✭✭✭✭
✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »The Destro Ult meta is trash and until that ability is toned down we won't see any real tactical group maneuvers beyond baiting ults/dumping ults/side swiping groups with ults.
Its completely different in GVG situations imo, Destro ulti is really easy to predict and counter in smaller fights (speaking like 12v12) which is why it would be nice to do some.
Also Destro meta is exactly the same as all others previous bombing has been a thing since forever, mainly 1.6 with introduction of proxy
It's easy to predict because that's what groups do when fighting groups: bomb with destro ults and drop negates. It's not like guilds are doing anything else to draw damage from. Organized PvP in this game is really just organizing Destro Ults and Negates (and to a lesser extent, permafrost).
Yeah the bomb meta is nothing new but Destro Ult was a significant boost in damage to ball groups. It would be nice to see some diversification of ultimates again (Veils, Banners, Novas etc.), but those ults are only used by small groups in small spaces now.
i agree completely. but i think they need to look more at negate than destro to make other ultimates (Veil, nava etc) more viable
Hey don't touch my negate. I joined ESO around 1.6 and as I recall, negate was almost useless. If you casted it, people would literally break free once and suddenly your negate is actually doing nothing except failing to render.
I feel like there was a sweet spot somewhere around DB where negate could not be made useless with break free, BUT the negate effect could be negated with another negate, so sorcs in group had to play this sort of extra meta of dealing with the negates of enemy sorcs.
I guess negate needs a nerf... but what nerf could be passed that wouldn't essentially render it useless?PC/NA - Nightfighters, Raid Leader and Officer
Lilith Arujo - DC sorc tank/dps/healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, Gryphon Heart, Grand Warlord
Lilith Tortorici - DC templar trials healer
Notable Completions:
vAS (72k), vMoL HM (160k), vAA HM (135k), vHRC HM, vSO HM (141k), vHoF HM (168k), vCR+3(129k), vDSA 45k, vMA 591k
Original Addons:
Lilith's Group Manager
Lilith's Lazy Hacks - Auto Recharge/Repair
Bot Scanner 2000
Lilith's Command History
Maintained Addons:
Kill Counter1 -
MLRPZ✭✭✭✭✭imo negate is fine as it is. powerful tool but still counterable, you just have to adapt your placementAD // Marc the Epic Goat // Templar // AR50
EP // The Goatfather // Templar // AR44
AD // Unforgoatable // Sorc // AR33
EP // You Goat Rekt // NB // AR28
EP // Bill Goats // Swarden // AR28
AD // Goat Ya // NB // AR24
AD // Unforgoatten // StamDK // AR 21
DC // Egoatcentric // Stamsorc // AR16
and many unused PVE chars
REMOVE FACTION LOCKAoE RatsRIP Zerg SquadRIP Banana Squad IncNot your typical goat2 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Negate seems ok until you realize that it's basically made all ultis that aren't PBAOE obsolete. DKS, Veil, Nova.... all just swept out by layered negates in every fight. It's ruined diversity of ultimates in large scale pvp.Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost7 -
Vilestride✭✭✭✭✭imo negate is fine as it is. powerful tool but still counter-able, you just have to adapt your placement
I agree, Negate is good as is, it needs to be powerful to counter healing, which is arguable too strong. I think maybe they could look at re-vamping some of the older ulti's (nova/standard ect) to make them a little more viable this meta.
But perhaps I could be wrong, perhaps they do have a a place in fights, they just need to be used more strategically. Using them on secondary pushes after X amount of counter negates? I dunno. food for thought.
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shaggygaming wrote: »
Well, which guild do you think is stronger than them?
and yet the currently strongest NA guild runs EU group-meta builds :PAlso, outstanding job to whomever made your logo. Looks amazing!
Thank you, Nikolai!
I'm glad everyone like it hehe, means a lot for me!
K-Hole at peak (patches 1.7-1.8) was more or less unbeatable. But that's PC NA, so we never went against Banana Squad. I watched a lot of their videos and would have liked a chance to fight them. Braidas, ofc, was in KH. KH never made many videos nor advertised much.
Tbh I always hear the same things from different people representing all op guilds on NA PC ^^ that they were more or less unbeatable at peak (e.g Havoc, NM, IR, KH and more) I wasn't there by that time so can't really judge :P
No guild is ever unbeatable. NM and KH are the best guilds on that list, the rest were glorified pug farmers. Alacrity and NM were the best overall. KH the best since I think. We matched up with them in the first GvG, but they got the better of us in Cyro. NA and EU aren't really compatible to compare because meta's have been very different for a while now.
What makes them the strongest? Is it because you have former zerg squad players in Dracarys so you feel an attachment to them and that by saying they are the strongest it helps your ego?
There are no best or strongest guilds in the game. I've been on both sides with IR, Nexus, Haxus, VE and the current state of the server will not allow us to know who is the best or strongest guild. I've been hit by Drac several times where I still have 70 FPS but nothing will register or allow me to use any abilities. I've also been on the other side where VE has hit me and I wasn't able to use any abilities. It happens to everyone and until we can actually use our abilities when we want them and play the game there will never be any best guilds.
Maybe that´s a hint about the playstyle not being supportable by the game engine.
I mean if there was a reasonable way to fix it wouldn´t they have done it?<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 504 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Ghost-Shot wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Minnesinger wrote: »Wonder if after 3 years most don´t even bother to watch these videos if there is promise of drama. Either you know someone or are yourself in a video. Otherwise, there isn´t much else to offer. Sadly, NA has lost many of its competitive players to really have equally good groups running into each other.
This is the main reason why we try to show our group v group fights rather than just pug farming because they are generally more interesting to watch and its nice to record too.
Also we want to encourage participation don't really see many guilds posting vids here and yet many guilds are playing (especially on NA)
We have some videos, Bulb and Steve have always made a point of rarely posting videos on these forums though. Kirin just put one up on his youtube a few days ago.
It is nice to see videos of guild fights though, too many pug farms get posted lol.https://youtube.com/watch?v=YE_I8isnTsE[/url]
Nice to see thanks I always wondered how many people you had compared to our group's size. Its nice that you can see the other dc around too so can compare how it looks from our side and yours.
I encourage you guys upload more where you are outnumbered or smaller groups (but its nice to see gameplay of any size). For me its nice to see how each group member is contributing. Will look forward to your post if you want to make one.
I too dislike how ppl can get lazy and "hide" in a larger group and stop contributing to the max potential, which is why running smaller groups time to time is beneficial. But overall you can't really do much as a small group. You can get good farms, get some good bombs in, etc. But you can't push anything defended, you can't really just go out and front lines it alone. The best thing a small group can do is defend keeps, they can be extremely effective at that.
...
small groups and gave up playing for the map beyond defending the occasional keep and zergsurfing. Tis the state of the game serverwide and I do not like it.
I don't really have the same viewpoint here. From my experience none of the larger guilds are able to push keeps unless they are zerg surfing with at least 1 or 2 other groups / pugs or the keep is undefended. Compare this to us for example who will go take ash/nikel/fare/glade whilst there are enemies there (and often a ad/dc fight) away from our faction and hold it for a decent time allowing the faction to push towards it. I'd say that it's both an effective and more rewarding style of play. When 3 dc guilds stack and take aleswell/bleaks/chal no amount of small group solo defending is gnna stop them but I still don't really consider it a victory.Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on July 7, 2017 9:56AM@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)2 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hope people arent argueing that there's no difference between destro ulti and other damage ultimates.
It's a high damage PBAoE DoT with a big radius. Much easier to line up and stack than simple burst ultis like soul tether. And I'd love to see people try to kill anything with a plague doctor + vicious death setup using soul tether instead of eye of the storm. Eye of the storm completely outperforms the alternatives.
Saying the introduction of destro ulti changed nothing is downright disingenuous. Guild play changed dramatically after 1T. Stamina builds completely useless for anything except support. Bombblades with destro ulti are miles ahead of any other group damage spec.
Still remember the first few weeks after 1T and how untouchable the groups that started stacking nothing but destro ultis the earliest were.
No one is arguing about how OP destro ultimate is. People are just saying that GVG (and organised group play in general) isn't only about destro ultis+negate spam, it's much more than this (specifically in the example of pure organised gvg) and Lieb made a good point explaining why.
The reason for saying this is because the assumption that GVG is pointless because of destro isn't correct.
also:
I agree but I know some ppl would argue with you about this statement and tell that it's "probably just your l2p issue"Bombblades with destro ulti are miles ahead of any other group damage spec.
I've been in two situations that were essntially GvG's against Dracarys/Haxus.
...
Both were easy wipes of a very organized guild that I like very much. If group play takes a lot of skill and coordination to be successful those things don't happen.
I don't know which guild / groups you're representing but from my point of view leading Dracarys I can't think of a situation where this has occurred. I'd be up for organising some GVG style fight if you wanted to though just message me.@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)0 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭
This is hilarious. I am sorry that I cannot specify why but good post, and thank you.It's a high damage PBAoE DoT with a big radius. Much easier to line up and stack than simple burst ultis like soul tether. And I'd love to see people try to kill anything with a plague doctor + vicious death setup using soul tether instead of eye of the storm. Eye of the storm completely outperforms the alternatives.
The general consensus seems to be to the contrary but I would agree that EOTF is one of the less effective ults against opposing organised raids. You probably still want 1 or 2 but focus on the rest of your group composition is far more important.
Indirectly I would argue that negate does more damage than EOTF. Speaking from a healers perspective. You can out heal an EOTF bomb 1 for 1, especially with 30k+ health. Being negated is where you loose out. Overall I think we are being reductive of the skills involved in group play.
Timing your Damage ults and negates is 101 basics sure. More important than this though is a whole list of other skills that need to fall in line.
Movement: IMO is number 1. If you don't/can't move effectively you will loose.
Prediction: number 2. Anticipating and remembering the behaviours of other groups/guilds. As far as ults no one has even mentioned how important Remembrance is, especially in GvG situations to counter bombs.
Intuition: Crown can't literally say everything a group needs to do. Think of a group as 1 body in a fight, Crown being the brain. If I want to kick someone I am not thinking the words, "Kick them here". It just happens. My legs and my hands know what I want to do, and it flows naturally. This Analogy plays out in group situations. The less intuition your group has the more sluggish and disorganised your group will be.
I'd argue that the offensive part of group play is so easy now (due to the mechanics of EOTS and negate) and the defensive group mechanics like barrier/purge are so much weaker now that the 3 points you mentioned are more important than ever. Even inexperienced groups/players can do significant damage to your group so your defensive tactics need to be 100% on-point all the time.
A group needs good movement and players that know how to balance group goals and personal survival, or the group won't last very long. The players also need to be willing to run exactly the right setups (including class and gear) for optimal group performance.
From an EU perspective, I think that's the advantage Zerg Squad has over every other guild on the megaserver. Constant movement, making the group hard to pin down with siege, negate and other ultis. People who work as a group and are always willing to run exactly the right classes/builds.
Most other guilds seem to be unable to even get people to run the right classes/builds, and they struggle as a result. But then ZOS loves advertising this game as "Play the way you want" when high end PvP raiding is basically exactly the opposite at this point, so I can understand why it's hard to find willing players nowadays.
But this is just based on observation and conversation... haven't raided since the PvP guild i was in died out.
1 -
Magıc✭✭✭✭✭
This is hilarious. I am sorry that I cannot specify why but good post, and thank you.It's a high damage PBAoE DoT with a big radius. Much easier to line up and stack than simple burst ultis like soul tether. And I'd love to see people try to kill anything with a plague doctor + vicious death setup using soul tether instead of eye of the storm. Eye of the storm completely outperforms the alternatives.
The general consensus seems to be to the contrary but I would agree that EOTF is one of the less effective ults against opposing organised raids. You probably still want 1 or 2 but focus on the rest of your group composition is far more important.
Indirectly I would argue that negate does more damage than EOTF. Speaking from a healers perspective. You can out heal an EOTF bomb 1 for 1, especially with 30k+ health. Being negated is where you loose out. Overall I think we are being reductive of the skills involved in group play.
Timing your Damage ults and negates is 101 basics sure. More important than this though is a whole list of other skills that need to fall in line.
Movement: IMO is number 1. If you don't/can't move effectively you will loose.
Prediction: number 2. Anticipating and remembering the behaviours of other groups/guilds. As far as ults no one has even mentioned how important Remembrance is, especially in GvG situations to counter bombs.
Intuition: Crown can't literally say everything a group needs to do. Think of a group as 1 body in a fight, Crown being the brain. If I want to kick someone I am not thinking the words, "Kick them here". It just happens. My legs and my hands know what I want to do, and it flows naturally. This Analogy plays out in group situations. The less intuition your group has the more sluggish and disorganised your group will be.
I'd argue that the offensive part of group play is so easy now (due to the mechanics of EOTS and negate) and the defensive group mechanics like barrier/purge are so much weaker now that the 3 points you mentioned are more important than ever. Even inexperienced groups/players can do significant damage to your group so your defensive tactics need to be 100% on-point all the time.
A group needs good movement and players that know how to balance group goals and personal survival, or the group won't last very long. The players also need to be willing to run exactly the right setups (including class and gear) for optimal group performance.
From an EU perspective, I think that's the advantage Zerg Squad has over every other guild on the megaserver. Constant movement, making the group hard to pin down with siege, negate and other ultis. People who work as a group and are always willing to run exactly the right classes/builds.
Most other guilds seem to be unable to even get people to run the right classes/builds, and they struggle as a result. But then ZOS loves advertising this game as "Play the way you want" when high end PvP raiding is basically exactly the opposite at this point, so I can understand why it's hard to find willing players nowadays.
But this is just based on observation and conversation... haven't raided since the PvP guild i was in died out.
Big part of it. I saw one specific guild running magdk tanks still and they've fell off the face of the earth again cause they were struggling. MDK's have hardly if any use anymore. The same can be said for most stam classes. I don't blame people for playing what they want, in an ideal world every class has just as much use as the rest in a group comp, but the reality is they don't and I see a few other groups, at least on EU having completely useless classes in their group comp where they could have another class which would benefit the group much more. Big thing about ZS, and I assume Dracarys and a few other NA guilds from the sounds of it, is that each player plays what is required, not what they want.Edited by Magıc on July 7, 2017 9:46AM1 -
Vilestride✭✭✭✭✭
From an EU perspective, I think that's the advantage Zerg Squad has over every other guild on the megaserver. Constant movement, making the group hard to pin down with siege, negate and other ultis. People who work as a group and are always willing to run exactly the right classes/builds.
This is hilarious. I am sorry that I cannot specify why but good post, and thank you.It's a high damage PBAoE DoT with a big radius. Much easier to line up and stack than simple burst ultis like soul tether. And I'd love to see people try to kill anything with a plague doctor + vicious death setup using soul tether instead of eye of the storm. Eye of the storm completely outperforms the alternatives.
The general consensus seems to be to the contrary but I would agree that EOTF is one of the less effective ults against opposing organised raids. You probably still want 1 or 2 but focus on the rest of your group composition is far more important.
Indirectly I would argue that negate does more damage than EOTF. Speaking from a healers perspective. You can out heal an EOTF bomb 1 for 1, especially with 30k+ health. Being negated is where you loose out. Overall I think we are being reductive of the skills involved in group play.
Timing your Damage ults and negates is 101 basics sure. More important than this though is a whole list of other skills that need to fall in line.
Movement: IMO is number 1. If you don't/can't move effectively you will loose.
Prediction: number 2. Anticipating and remembering the behaviours of other groups/guilds. As far as ults no one has even mentioned how important Remembrance is, especially in GvG situations to counter bombs.
Intuition: Crown can't literally say everything a group needs to do. Think of a group as 1 body in a fight, Crown being the brain. If I want to kick someone I am not thinking the words, "Kick them here". It just happens. My legs and my hands know what I want to do, and it flows naturally. This Analogy plays out in group situations. The less intuition your group has the more sluggish and disorganised your group will be.
Most other guilds seem to be unable to even get people to run the right classes/builds, and they struggle as a result. But then ZOS loves advertising this game as "Play the way you want" when high end PvP raiding is basically exactly the opposite at this point, so I can understand why it's hard to find willing players nowadays.
But this is just based on observation and conversation... haven't raided since the PvP guild i was in died out.
Lol, It's funny, I agree with everything your saying. And I concede that raw damage output is easier than ever. My point is this though, and I think you will agree. That if guild gameplay in general was as simple (as some people are suggesting) as dropping all your damage at the same time, then top teir guilds would be indistinguishable from whichever PUG was thrown together that day. Anyone can co-ordinate their damage, and yet organised groups still consistently win the day 90% of the time even when outnumbered. We watch this happen day to day and is proof enough of the depth of competitive guild PVP.
Secondly I am really pleased someone mentioned group composition and the commitment to loose your identity to the group so to speak. I agree that this is something that isn't happening alot right now. I think you'd be surprised by how many people think its beneficial to bring their mad 1VX Hybrid Templar solar barage, power bash build to group (that was just an example obviously).
1 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
From an EU perspective, I think that's the advantage Zerg Squad has over every other guild on the megaserver. Constant movement, making the group hard to pin down with siege, negate and other ultis. People who work as a group and are always willing to run exactly the right classes/builds.
This is hilarious. I am sorry that I cannot specify why but good post, and thank you.It's a high damage PBAoE DoT with a big radius. Much easier to line up and stack than simple burst ultis like soul tether. And I'd love to see people try to kill anything with a plague doctor + vicious death setup using soul tether instead of eye of the storm. Eye of the storm completely outperforms the alternatives.
The general consensus seems to be to the contrary but I would agree that EOTF is one of the less effective ults against opposing organised raids. You probably still want 1 or 2 but focus on the rest of your group composition is far more important.
Indirectly I would argue that negate does more damage than EOTF. Speaking from a healers perspective. You can out heal an EOTF bomb 1 for 1, especially with 30k+ health. Being negated is where you loose out. Overall I think we are being reductive of the skills involved in group play.
Timing your Damage ults and negates is 101 basics sure. More important than this though is a whole list of other skills that need to fall in line.
Movement: IMO is number 1. If you don't/can't move effectively you will loose.
Prediction: number 2. Anticipating and remembering the behaviours of other groups/guilds. As far as ults no one has even mentioned how important Remembrance is, especially in GvG situations to counter bombs.
Intuition: Crown can't literally say everything a group needs to do. Think of a group as 1 body in a fight, Crown being the brain. If I want to kick someone I am not thinking the words, "Kick them here". It just happens. My legs and my hands know what I want to do, and it flows naturally. This Analogy plays out in group situations. The less intuition your group has the more sluggish and disorganised your group will be.
Most other guilds seem to be unable to even get people to run the right classes/builds, and they struggle as a result. But then ZOS loves advertising this game as "Play the way you want" when high end PvP raiding is basically exactly the opposite at this point, so I can understand why it's hard to find willing players nowadays.
But this is just based on observation and conversation... haven't raided since the PvP guild i was in died out.
Lol, It's funny, I agree with everything your saying. And I concede that raw damage output is easier than ever. My point is this though, and I think you will agree. That if guild gameplay in general was as simple (as some people are suggesting) as dropping all your damage at the same time, then top teir guilds would be indistinguishable from whichever PUG was thrown together that day. Anyone can co-ordinate their damage, and yet organised groups still consistently win the day 90% of the time even when outnumbered. We watch this happen day to day and is proof enough of the depth of competitive guild PVP.
Secondly I am really pleased someone mentioned group composition and the commitment to loose your identity to the group so to speak. I agree that this is something that isn't happening alot right now. I think you'd be surprised by how many people think its beneficial to bring their mad 1VX Hybrid Templar solar barage, power bash build to group (that was just an example obviously).
Haha, but that's not true though is it? Pugs in this game sometimes don't know that they have skills other than light attacks, asking them to coordinate ultimates? tough job!0 -
Vilestride✭✭✭✭✭
From an EU perspective, I think that's the advantage Zerg Squad has over every other guild on the megaserver. Constant movement, making the group hard to pin down with siege, negate and other ultis. People who work as a group and are always willing to run exactly the right classes/builds.
This is hilarious. I am sorry that I cannot specify why but good post, and thank you.It's a high damage PBAoE DoT with a big radius. Much easier to line up and stack than simple burst ultis like soul tether. And I'd love to see people try to kill anything with a plague doctor + vicious death setup using soul tether instead of eye of the storm. Eye of the storm completely outperforms the alternatives.
The general consensus seems to be to the contrary but I would agree that EOTF is one of the less effective ults against opposing organised raids. You probably still want 1 or 2 but focus on the rest of your group composition is far more important.
Indirectly I would argue that negate does more damage than EOTF. Speaking from a healers perspective. You can out heal an EOTF bomb 1 for 1, especially with 30k+ health. Being negated is where you loose out. Overall I think we are being reductive of the skills involved in group play.
Timing your Damage ults and negates is 101 basics sure. More important than this though is a whole list of other skills that need to fall in line.
Movement: IMO is number 1. If you don't/can't move effectively you will loose.
Prediction: number 2. Anticipating and remembering the behaviours of other groups/guilds. As far as ults no one has even mentioned how important Remembrance is, especially in GvG situations to counter bombs.
Intuition: Crown can't literally say everything a group needs to do. Think of a group as 1 body in a fight, Crown being the brain. If I want to kick someone I am not thinking the words, "Kick them here". It just happens. My legs and my hands know what I want to do, and it flows naturally. This Analogy plays out in group situations. The less intuition your group has the more sluggish and disorganised your group will be.
Most other guilds seem to be unable to even get people to run the right classes/builds, and they struggle as a result. But then ZOS loves advertising this game as "Play the way you want" when high end PvP raiding is basically exactly the opposite at this point, so I can understand why it's hard to find willing players nowadays.
But this is just based on observation and conversation... haven't raided since the PvP guild i was in died out.
Lol, It's funny, I agree with everything your saying. And I concede that raw damage output is easier than ever. My point is this though, and I think you will agree. That if guild gameplay in general was as simple (as some people are suggesting) as dropping all your damage at the same time, then top teir guilds would be indistinguishable from whichever PUG was thrown together that day. Anyone can co-ordinate their damage, and yet organised groups still consistently win the day 90% of the time even when outnumbered. We watch this happen day to day and is proof enough of the depth of competitive guild PVP.
Secondly I am really pleased someone mentioned group composition and the commitment to loose your identity to the group so to speak. I agree that this is something that isn't happening alot right now. I think you'd be surprised by how many people think its beneficial to bring their mad 1VX Hybrid Templar solar barage, power bash build to group (that was just an example obviously).
Haha, but that's not true though is it? Pugs in this game sometimes don't know that they have skills other than light attacks, asking them to coordinate ultimates? tough job!
I meant like, a PUG group not a collective of individual 'pugs'. The difference is subtle but its there :P0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Ghost-Shot wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Minnesinger wrote: »Wonder if after 3 years most don´t even bother to watch these videos if there is promise of drama. Either you know someone or are yourself in a video. Otherwise, there isn´t much else to offer. Sadly, NA has lost many of its competitive players to really have equally good groups running into each other.
This is the main reason why we try to show our group v group fights rather than just pug farming because they are generally more interesting to watch and its nice to record too.
Also we want to encourage participation don't really see many guilds posting vids here and yet many guilds are playing (especially on NA)
We have some videos, Bulb and Steve have always made a point of rarely posting videos on these forums though. Kirin just put one up on his youtube a few days ago.
It is nice to see videos of guild fights though, too many pug farms get posted lol.https://youtube.com/watch?v=YE_I8isnTsE[/url]
Nice to see thanks I always wondered how many people you had compared to our group's size. Its nice that you can see the other dc around too so can compare how it looks from our side and yours.
I encourage you guys upload more where you are outnumbered or smaller groups (but its nice to see gameplay of any size). For me its nice to see how each group member is contributing. Will look forward to your post if you want to make one.
I too dislike how ppl can get lazy and "hide" in a larger group and stop contributing to the max potential, which is why running smaller groups time to time is beneficial. But overall you can't really do much as a small group. You can get good farms, get some good bombs in, etc. But you can't push anything defended, you can't really just go out and front lines it alone. The best thing a small group can do is defend keeps, they can be extremely effective at that.
...
small groups and gave up playing for the map beyond defending the occasional keep and zergsurfing. Tis the state of the game serverwide and I do not like it.
I don't really have the same viewpoint here. From my experience none of the larger guilds are able to push keeps unless they are zerg surfing with at least 1 or 2 other groups / pugs or the keep is undefended. Compare this to us for example who will go take ash/nikel/fare/glade whilst there are enemies there (and often a ad/dc fight) away from our faction and hold it for a decent time allowing the faction to push towards it. I'd say that it's both an effective and more rewarding style of play. When 3 dc guilds stack and take aleswell/bleaks/chal no amount of small group solo defending is gnna stop them but I still don't really consider it a victory.
I can empathize with this as I don't consider it a victory when the EP faction stack rolls Bleakers and then Aleswell either or when EP guilds in a faction stack stealth bomb.
But then again I wear faction blinders and am totally oblivious to what my faction and my guild does while I never forget every dirty trick the other two factions use against me.Edited by Joy_Division on July 7, 2017 2:50PM3 -
Nivellan✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Hope people arent argueing that there's no difference between destro ulti and other damage ultimates.
It's a high damage PBAoE DoT with a big radius. Much easier to line up and stack than simple burst ultis like soul tether. And I'd love to see people try to kill anything with a plague doctor + vicious death setup using soul tether instead of eye of the storm. Eye of the storm completely outperforms the alternatives.
Saying the introduction of destro ulti changed nothing is downright disingenuous. Guild play changed dramatically after 1T. Stamina builds completely useless for anything except support. Bombblades with destro ulti are miles ahead of any other group damage spec.
Still remember the first few weeks after 1T and how untouchable the groups that started stacking nothing but destro ultis the earliest were.
No one is arguing about how OP destro ultimate is. People are just saying that GVG (and organised group play in general) isn't only about destro ultis+negate spam, it's much more than this (specifically in the example of pure organised gvg) and Lieb made a good point explaining why.
The reason for saying this is because the assumption that GVG is pointless because of destro isn't correct.
also:
I agree but I know some ppl would argue with you about this statement and tell that it's "probably just your l2p issue"Bombblades with destro ulti are miles ahead of any other group damage spec.
I've been in two situations that were essntially GvG's against Dracarys/Haxus.
...
Both were easy wipes of a very organized guild that I like very much. If group play takes a lot of skill and coordination to be successful those things don't happen.
I don't know which guild / groups you're representing but from my point of view leading Dracarys I can't think of a situation where this has occurred. I'd be up for organising some GVG style fight if you wanted to though just message me.
I don't expect you to remember two moments of pvp :P They're highlights for me because I barely do that stuff anymore, but for you you have so many fights each day. One time was with Venatus, but the other was not a guild effort just like 14 friends who wanted to play together one day only.
Maybe one day we can when I don't get so depressed playing this game and I feel like leading groups.PC NA
Azandara, Azuretha - Templar
Former K-hole, FMC, Mischevious0