[NEW] (Videos) Dracarys - Where the Flames Converge - Waking Flame Patch

Inig0

yo sick vids.
all the haters can suck it.
there are many things to do in this game and just cause you dont like it doesnt mean its any less challenging.
out there some where there is a hardcore quester who is literally by every metric better than everyone at questing.

Drummerx04

Texas wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Minnesinger wrote: »

Wonder if after 3 years most don´t even bother to watch these videos if there is promise of drama. Either you know someone or are yourself in a video. Otherwise, there isn´t much else to offer. Sadly, NA has lost many of its competitive players to really have equally good groups running into each other.

This is the main reason why we try to show our group v group fights rather than just pug farming because they are generally more interesting to watch and its nice to record too.

Also we want to encourage participation don't really see many guilds posting vids here and yet many guilds are playing (especially on NA)

We have some videos, Bulb and Steve have always made a point of rarely posting videos on these forums though. Kirin just put one up on his youtube a few days ago.

It is nice to see videos of guild fights though, too many pug farms get posted lol.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=YE_I8isnTsE[/url]

@Satiar @Ghost-Shot Do we not have a recording of that hour long Ales defense (about a week ago) against the EP faction stack? That one would be pretty cool to see again, lol.

Ghost-Shot

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Texas wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Minnesinger wrote: »

Wonder if after 3 years most don´t even bother to watch these videos if there is promise of drama. Either you know someone or are yourself in a video. Otherwise, there isn´t much else to offer. Sadly, NA has lost many of its competitive players to really have equally good groups running into each other.

This is the main reason why we try to show our group v group fights rather than just pug farming because they are generally more interesting to watch and its nice to record too.

Also we want to encourage participation don't really see many guilds posting vids here and yet many guilds are playing (especially on NA)

We have some videos, Bulb and Steve have always made a point of rarely posting videos on these forums though. Kirin just put one up on his youtube a few days ago.

It is nice to see videos of guild fights though, too many pug farms get posted lol.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=YE_I8isnTsE[/url]

@Satiar @Ghost-Shot Do we not have a recording of that hour long Ales defense (about a week ago) against the EP faction stack? That one would be pretty cool to see again, lol.

Probably not

Vincelex

Sorry to hear that Nivellan, but if you ever feel better we'd love to meet you in Cyro
Side note, New Old Vid!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vWzMktMVmY

Rin_Senya

Drummerx04 wrote: »

@Satiar @Ghost-Shot Do we not have a recording of that hour long Ales defense (about a week ago) against the EP faction stack? That one would be pretty cool to see again, lol.

Yeh but what the point of posting it? There are always hundreds of pugs running between Aleswell-Bleakers-Chalman 24/7 and multiple guilds defending these keeps so its unlikely it would be your guild alone defending.
I'm 100% sure that any EP could post video of hour long Chalman defense against DC factions stack that happening every day
What would be really great to see are videos where you're defending BRK-Sej-Alessia against both AD and EP faction no matter what your group size!^^

Satiar

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

@Satiar @Ghost-Shot Do we not have a recording of that hour long Ales defense (about a week ago) against the EP faction stack? That one would be pretty cool to see again, lol.

Yeh but what the point of posting it? There are always hundreds of pugs running between Aleswell-Bleakers-Chalman 24/7 and multiple guilds defending these keeps so its unlikely it would be your guild alone defending.
I'm 100% sure that any EP could post video of hour long Chalman defense against DC factions stack that happening every day
What would be really great to see are videos where you're defending BRK-Sej-Alessia against both AD and EP faction no matter what your group size!^^

3 faction fights are far easier than 2 faction fights. If you're the sole focus of the enemy it's much harder to get distance when you need it and set up good value strikes. 3 faction fights allow for a lot easier time positioning and retreating because rarely are you the sole focus of both factions.

That said, I find people tend to mostly ignore us when we do make our rare cross map journeys. I've pretty much given up trying to find fights st Sej, as EP just pushes Aleswell and AD pushes Ash. Usually it's a boring 30 minutes until we suicide to go save back keeps.

Ghostbane

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

@Satiar @Ghost-Shot Do we not have a recording of that hour long Ales defense (about a week ago) against the EP faction stack? That one would be pretty cool to see again, lol.

Yeh but what the point of posting it? There are always hundreds of pugs running between Aleswell-Bleakers-Chalman 24/7 and multiple guilds defending these keeps so its unlikely it would be your guild alone defending.
I'm 100% sure that any EP could post video of hour long Chalman defense against DC factions stack that happening every day
What would be really great to see are videos where you're defending BRK-Sej-Alessia against both AD and EP faction no matter what your group size!^^

3 faction fights are far easier than 2 faction fights. If you're the sole focus of the enemy it's much harder to get distance when you need it and set up good value strikes. 3 faction fights allow for a lot easier time positioning and retreating because rarely are you the sole focus of both factions.

That said, I find people tend to mostly ignore us when we do make our rare cross map journeys. I've pretty much given up trying to find fights st Sej, as EP just pushes Aleswell and AD pushes Ash. Usually it's a boring 30 minutes until we suicide to go save back keeps.

Send me a PM on that next resource suicide pls. < 3

Vincelex

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

@Satiar @Ghost-Shot Do we not have a recording of that hour long Ales defense (about a week ago) against the EP faction stack? That one would be pretty cool to see again, lol.

Yeh but what the point of posting it? There are always hundreds of pugs running between Aleswell-Bleakers-Chalman 24/7 and multiple guilds defending these keeps so its unlikely it would be your guild alone defending.
I'm 100% sure that any EP could post video of hour long Chalman defense against DC factions stack that happening every day
What would be really great to see are videos where you're defending BRK-Sej-Alessia against both AD and EP faction no matter what your group size!^^

3 faction fights are far easier than 2 faction fights. If you're the sole focus of the enemy it's much harder to get distance when you need it and set up good value strikes. 3 faction fights allow for a lot easier time positioning and retreating because rarely are you the sole focus of both factions.

That said, I find people tend to mostly ignore us when we do make our rare cross map journeys. I've pretty much given up trying to find fights st Sej, as EP just pushes Aleswell and AD pushes Ash. Usually it's a boring 30 minutes until we suicide to go save back keeps.

I understand, different group sizes elicit different tactics, as well as name recognition. If I am a pug and I hear VE is at a keep waiting for a farm I turn the other way tbh. I am deadly scared of VE when I am alone. Pretty sure people just take advantage of the fact that when you want to do something fun they push the map because they know you are a map control guild. Mebbe one day put on different tabards to get a farm going. Maybe BOD or AK tabards XD

Ghost-Shot

Vincelex wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

@Satiar @Ghost-Shot Do we not have a recording of that hour long Ales defense (about a week ago) against the EP faction stack? That one would be pretty cool to see again, lol.

Yeh but what the point of posting it? There are always hundreds of pugs running between Aleswell-Bleakers-Chalman 24/7 and multiple guilds defending these keeps so its unlikely it would be your guild alone defending.
I'm 100% sure that any EP could post video of hour long Chalman defense against DC factions stack that happening every day
What would be really great to see are videos where you're defending BRK-Sej-Alessia against both AD and EP faction no matter what your group size!^^

3 faction fights are far easier than 2 faction fights. If you're the sole focus of the enemy it's much harder to get distance when you need it and set up good value strikes. 3 faction fights allow for a lot easier time positioning and retreating because rarely are you the sole focus of both factions.

That said, I find people tend to mostly ignore us when we do make our rare cross map journeys. I've pretty much given up trying to find fights st Sej, as EP just pushes Aleswell and AD pushes Ash. Usually it's a boring 30 minutes until we suicide to go save back keeps.

I understand, different group sizes elicit different tactics, as well as name recognition. If I am a pug and I hear VE is at a keep waiting for a farm I turn the other way tbh. I am deadly scared of VE when I am alone. Pretty sure people just take advantage of the fact that when you want to do something fun they push the map because they know you are a map control guild. Mebbe one day put on different tabards to get a farm going. Maybe BOD or AK tabards XD

WTB BOD INVITE SO I CAN FARM, SOMEONE HELP

asneakybanana

Nivellan wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Hope people arent argueing that there's no difference between destro ulti and other damage ultimates.

It's a high damage PBAoE DoT with a big radius. Much easier to line up and stack than simple burst ultis like soul tether. And I'd love to see people try to kill anything with a plague doctor + vicious death setup using soul tether instead of eye of the storm. Eye of the storm completely outperforms the alternatives.

Saying the introduction of destro ulti changed nothing is downright disingenuous. Guild play changed dramatically after 1T. Stamina builds completely useless for anything except support. Bombblades with destro ulti are miles ahead of any other group damage spec.

Still remember the first few weeks after 1T and how untouchable the groups that started stacking nothing but destro ultis the earliest were.

No one is arguing about how OP destro ultimate is. People are just saying that GVG (and organised group play in general) isn't only about destro ultis+negate spam, it's much more than this (specifically in the example of pure organised gvg) and Lieb made a good point explaining why.
The reason for saying this is because the assumption that GVG is pointless because of destro isn't correct.

also:

Valencer wrote: »

Bombblades with destro ulti are miles ahead of any other group damage spec.

I agree but I know some ppl would argue with you about this statement and tell that it's "probably just your l2p issue"

It pretty much is though. I have a lot of respect for the the guilds that play right now, but we're deluding ourselves to say this meta takes a lot of skill or coordination even. I'm not saying a gvg scenario is going to be a coin flip... just it's a lot more mindless than before.

I've been in two situations that were essntially GvG's against Dracarys/Haxus. One time recently with a group of players that hadn't played together since the first week of Morrowind(and before that not since for 2 weeks when one tamriel came out), and a second with a group of players that literally never play together but randomly one day they all 0wanted to. Both were easy wipes of a very organized guild that I like very much. If group play takes a lot of skill and coordination to be successful those things don't happen.

Also as for sneaky... ults like nova, tether, banner, and negate pre-buff were used a lot. Leap too. The only guild at the first NA GvG not using those ults lost both of their matches and I'm pretty sure it was your guild sneaky.

The real question is who are you? Not sure I believe these essentially GvG fights since I don't think apart from maybe khole I don't think I've seen a solid sub 20 man all patch. If you do stop being depressed and come out of retirement let me know as we would love to gvg Also I couldn't tell you what happened at the gvg as I wasn't pvping at the time.

NACtron

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Vincelex wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

@Satiar @Ghost-Shot Do we not have a recording of that hour long Ales defense (about a week ago) against the EP faction stack? That one would be pretty cool to see again, lol.

Yeh but what the point of posting it? There are always hundreds of pugs running between Aleswell-Bleakers-Chalman 24/7 and multiple guilds defending these keeps so its unlikely it would be your guild alone defending.
I'm 100% sure that any EP could post video of hour long Chalman defense against DC factions stack that happening every day
What would be really great to see are videos where you're defending BRK-Sej-Alessia against both AD and EP faction no matter what your group size!^^

3 faction fights are far easier than 2 faction fights. If you're the sole focus of the enemy it's much harder to get distance when you need it and set up good value strikes. 3 faction fights allow for a lot easier time positioning and retreating because rarely are you the sole focus of both factions.

That said, I find people tend to mostly ignore us when we do make our rare cross map journeys. I've pretty much given up trying to find fights st Sej, as EP just pushes Aleswell and AD pushes Ash. Usually it's a boring 30 minutes until we suicide to go save back keeps.

I understand, different group sizes elicit different tactics, as well as name recognition. If I am a pug and I hear VE is at a keep waiting for a farm I turn the other way tbh. I am deadly scared of VE when I am alone. Pretty sure people just take advantage of the fact that when you want to do something fun they push the map because they know you are a map control guild. Mebbe one day put on different tabards to get a farm going. Maybe BOD or AK tabards XD

WTB BOD INVITE SO I CAN FARM, SOMEONE HELP

You'll only be farming the npc's at KC

Ghost-Shot

NACtron wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Vincelex wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

@Satiar @Ghost-Shot Do we not have a recording of that hour long Ales defense (about a week ago) against the EP faction stack? That one would be pretty cool to see again, lol.

Yeh but what the point of posting it? There are always hundreds of pugs running between Aleswell-Bleakers-Chalman 24/7 and multiple guilds defending these keeps so its unlikely it would be your guild alone defending.
I'm 100% sure that any EP could post video of hour long Chalman defense against DC factions stack that happening every day
What would be really great to see are videos where you're defending BRK-Sej-Alessia against both AD and EP faction no matter what your group size!^^

3 faction fights are far easier than 2 faction fights. If you're the sole focus of the enemy it's much harder to get distance when you need it and set up good value strikes. 3 faction fights allow for a lot easier time positioning and retreating because rarely are you the sole focus of both factions.

That said, I find people tend to mostly ignore us when we do make our rare cross map journeys. I've pretty much given up trying to find fights st Sej, as EP just pushes Aleswell and AD pushes Ash. Usually it's a boring 30 minutes until we suicide to go save back keeps.

I understand, different group sizes elicit different tactics, as well as name recognition. If I am a pug and I hear VE is at a keep waiting for a farm I turn the other way tbh. I am deadly scared of VE when I am alone. Pretty sure people just take advantage of the fact that when you want to do something fun they push the map because they know you are a map control guild. Mebbe one day put on different tabards to get a farm going. Maybe BOD or AK tabards XD

WTB BOD INVITE SO I CAN FARM, SOMEONE HELP

You'll only be farming the npc's at KC

Lol

BraidasNM

Kilandros wrote: »

The Destro Ult meta is trash and until that ability is toned down we won't see any real tactical group maneuvers beyond baiting ults/dumping ults/side swiping groups with ults.

much agree, it's terrible to look at and play with

asneakybanana wrote: »

Nivellan wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Hope people arent argueing that there's no difference between destro ulti and other damage ultimates.

It's a high damage PBAoE DoT with a big radius. Much easier to line up and stack than simple burst ultis like soul tether. And I'd love to see people try to kill anything with a plague doctor + vicious death setup using soul tether instead of eye of the storm. Eye of the storm completely outperforms the alternatives.

Saying the introduction of destro ulti changed nothing is downright disingenuous. Guild play changed dramatically after 1T. Stamina builds completely useless for anything except support. Bombblades with destro ulti are miles ahead of any other group damage spec.

Still remember the first few weeks after 1T and how untouchable the groups that started stacking nothing but destro ultis the earliest were.

No one is arguing about how OP destro ultimate is. People are just saying that GVG (and organised group play in general) isn't only about destro ultis+negate spam, it's much more than this (specifically in the example of pure organised gvg) and Lieb made a good point explaining why.
The reason for saying this is because the assumption that GVG is pointless because of destro isn't correct.

also:

Valencer wrote: »

Bombblades with destro ulti are miles ahead of any other group damage spec.

I agree but I know some ppl would argue with you about this statement and tell that it's "probably just your l2p issue"

It pretty much is though. I have a lot of respect for the the guilds that play right now, but we're deluding ourselves to say this meta takes a lot of skill or coordination even. I'm not saying a gvg scenario is going to be a coin flip... just it's a lot more mindless than before.

I've been in two situations that were essntially GvG's against Dracarys/Haxus. One time recently with a group of players that hadn't played together since the first week of Morrowind(and before that not since for 2 weeks when one tamriel came out), and a second with a group of players that literally never play together but randomly one day they all 0wanted to. Both were easy wipes of a very organized guild that I like very much. If group play takes a lot of skill and coordination to be successful those things don't happen.

Also as for sneaky... ults like nova, tether, banner, and negate pre-buff were used a lot. Leap too. The only guild at the first NA GvG not using those ults lost both of their matches and I'm pretty sure it was your guild sneaky.

The real question is who are you? Not sure I believe these essentially GvG fights since I don't think apart from maybe khole I don't think I've seen a solid sub 20 man all patch. If you do stop being depressed and come out of retirement let me know as we would love to gvg Also I couldn't tell you what happened at the gvg as I wasn't pvping at the time.

i wasnt there either but if i remember correctly haxus or havoc or w/e got shutout by both khole and rage

Rin_Senya

Satiar wrote: »

3 faction fights are far easier than 2 faction fights. If you're the sole focus of the enemy it's much harder to get distance when you need it and set up good value strikes. 3 faction fights allow for a lot easier time positioning and retreating because rarely are you the sole focus of both factions

I disagree completely. Don't see how 3 faction fights are far ‘easier’ than zerg surf your own faction As you said, 3 faction fights require good timing and positioning, thinking when it's better to engage and disengage is part of that but if you want to achieve an objective (like take a keep that the 2 factions fight over) then you can’t just run away. It requires some of the closest teamwork as all your mistakes will be punished instantly.
Zerging from keep to keep in the 2 faction fights you can just always use your own pugs and other guilds as meat shield and hide behind them if needed etc... That’s why I don't consider killing any other enemy guild/pugs or even taking enemy keep with my whole faction as an achievement or accomplishment.
I can say from experience that when we turn up to a fight between AD and DC, they don’t tend to ignore us. For example certain guilds will run away and wait just to attack us whilst we fight the other faction, forgetting about their original plans entirely and we are fine with them doing this because it will be a good challenging fight for us.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Dracarys members never zerg surf. Everyone does it in this game without any exception and I perfectly know when I have my sunglasses on, standing on my zergsurf board Equally when our guild have a raid, even if we are 8 or 10, I’m always expecting us try and go to the opposite side of the map to have some nice fights, where it's only us without any friendly support.
Even with these numbers we take keeps from DC and AD, kill other guilds and have opportunities to experience something different from the nightly run between the Ale’s. So I disagree when you say that small or medium groups can’t do this really ^^ it just depends on what you priorities in this game. Even if you are focused on objectives there are many ways to help your own faction not stacking with them. Yes, I agree that it’s sad to see that nowadays only few guilds really do it.

Satiar wrote: »

That said, I find people tend to mostly ignore us when we do make our rare cross map journeys.

Well there are places on the map that simply can't be ignored ^^ like Fare, Arrius or Glade etc. Also it's very easy to create action on the opposite side of the map if you know how to do it. It's not necessary needed to hold exact one spot for hours, you can simply move somewhere else where 2 enemies faction fighting and I can say that on NA there is always some kind of this fights going, especially in prime time when majority of guilds have a raid. Also NA lags much less compared to EU and at least the server doesn’t crash 4 times per night XD so such kind of fights are actually enjoyable!

Satiar

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

3 faction fights are far easier than 2 faction fights. If you're the sole focus of the enemy it's much harder to get distance when you need it and set up good value strikes. 3 faction fights allow for a lot easier time positioning and retreating because rarely are you the sole focus of both factions

I disagree completely. Don't see how 3 faction fights are far ‘easier’ than zerg surf your own faction As you said, 3 faction fights require good timing and positioning, thinking when it's better to engage and disengage is part of that but if you want to achieve an objective (like take a keep that the 2 factions fight over) then you can’t just run away. It requires some of the closest teamwork as all your mistakes will be punished instantly.
Zerging from keep to keep in the 2 faction fights you can just always use your own pugs and other guilds as meat shield and hide behind them if needed etc... That’s why I don't consider killing any other enemy guild/pugs or even taking enemy keep with my whole faction as an achievement or accomplishment.
I can say from experience that when we turn up to a fight between AD and DC, they don’t tend to ignore us. For example certain guilds will run away and wait just to attack us whilst we fight the other faction, forgetting about their original plans entirely and we are fine with them doing this because it will be a good challenging fight for us.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Dracarys members never zerg surf. Everyone does it in this game without any exception and I perfectly know when I have my sunglasses on, standing on my zergsurf board Equally when our guild have a raid, even if we are 8 or 10, I’m always expecting us try and go to the opposite side of the map to have some nice fights, where it's only us without any friendly support.
Even with these numbers we take keeps from DC and AD, kill other guilds and have opportunities to experience something different from the nightly run between the Ale’s. So I disagree when you say that small or medium groups can’t do this really ^^ it just depends on what you priorities in this game. Even if you are focused on objectives there are many ways to help your own faction not stacking with them. Yes, I agree that it’s sad to see that nowadays only few guilds really do it.

Satiar wrote: »

That said, I find people tend to mostly ignore us when we do make our rare cross map journeys.

Well there are places on the map that simply can't be ignored ^^ like Fare, Arrius or Glade etc. Also it's very easy to create action on the opposite side of the map if you know how to do it. It's not necessary needed to hold exact one spot for hours, you can simply move somewhere else where 2 enemies faction fighting and I can say that on NA there is always some kind of this fights going, especially in prime time when majority of guilds have a raid. Also NA lags much less compared to EU and at least the server doesn’t crash 4 times per night XD so such kind of fights are actually enjoyable!

You are of course welcome to your own opinions, but over my years of raid leading and raid play I've found 3 faction fights much easier to lead. The number one factor in winning and losing fights is how much pressure you're under and how much focus is on your group, and those factors are almost always in your favour when all 3 factions are involved. Inevitably the other 2 factions are going to be looking at each other and not just you.

I've led many of these against red guilds. Haxus in particular loved to do this thing where they'd come into a blue/yellow fight, bomb big then run for the hills or a tower. I'd usually try a counter bomb if I saw em coming but if not I'd just let em run because I can't give up the line to AD. Then they'd lurk around the backline for a while, bomb big again, retreat again, rinse and repeat. It's fun and it makes for great clips but it's entirely dependent on the other groups being busy with each other. You don't get that kind of space to work with when it's red vs blue (or whatever combo) and all involved are laser focused on each other, you just don't.

Real 3 faction fights, in the open, ongoing; those died with the death of the steel Tornado meta. Since that died damage comes in pulses, burst phases than retreat phases, whereas before if you were a real machine you could pump out the damage continuously and rotate 4-5 barriers to keep your group alive and rolling indefinitely. Since the VD/instadeath meta began that's been impossible to replicate on anyone but super pugs, far too easy to just apply more burst than anyone can live through. Hell, I can put enough burst on you guys to blow you up and you run more hp than 90% of the server. That's the meta we're in. It's pretty dumb

This is why I mostly just shrug at that three faction stuff. Good farms, fun times, but ultimately those who do it benefit massively from not being the only target on the field. Hardest fights in the game are when everyone's looking at you.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Satiar wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

3 faction fights are far easier than 2 faction fights. If you're the sole focus of the enemy it's much harder to get distance when you need it and set up good value strikes. 3 faction fights allow for a lot easier time positioning and retreating because rarely are you the sole focus of both factions

I disagree completely. Don't see how 3 faction fights are far ‘easier’ than zerg surf your own faction As you said, 3 faction fights require good timing and positioning, thinking when it's better to engage and disengage is part of that but if you want to achieve an objective (like take a keep that the 2 factions fight over) then you can’t just run away. It requires some of the closest teamwork as all your mistakes will be punished instantly.
Zerging from keep to keep in the 2 faction fights you can just always use your own pugs and other guilds as meat shield and hide behind them if needed etc... That’s why I don't consider killing any other enemy guild/pugs or even taking enemy keep with my whole faction as an achievement or accomplishment.
I can say from experience that when we turn up to a fight between AD and DC, they don’t tend to ignore us. For example certain guilds will run away and wait just to attack us whilst we fight the other faction, forgetting about their original plans entirely and we are fine with them doing this because it will be a good challenging fight for us.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Dracarys members never zerg surf. Everyone does it in this game without any exception and I perfectly know when I have my sunglasses on, standing on my zergsurf board Equally when our guild have a raid, even if we are 8 or 10, I’m always expecting us try and go to the opposite side of the map to have some nice fights, where it's only us without any friendly support.
Even with these numbers we take keeps from DC and AD, kill other guilds and have opportunities to experience something different from the nightly run between the Ale’s. So I disagree when you say that small or medium groups can’t do this really ^^ it just depends on what you priorities in this game. Even if you are focused on objectives there are many ways to help your own faction not stacking with them. Yes, I agree that it’s sad to see that nowadays only few guilds really do it.

Satiar wrote: »

That said, I find people tend to mostly ignore us when we do make our rare cross map journeys.

Well there are places on the map that simply can't be ignored ^^ like Fare, Arrius or Glade etc. Also it's very easy to create action on the opposite side of the map if you know how to do it. It's not necessary needed to hold exact one spot for hours, you can simply move somewhere else where 2 enemies faction fighting and I can say that on NA there is always some kind of this fights going, especially in prime time when majority of guilds have a raid. Also NA lags much less compared to EU and at least the server doesn’t crash 4 times per night XD so such kind of fights are actually enjoyable!

You are of course welcome to your own opinions, but over my years of raid leading and raid play I've found 3 faction fights much easier to lead. The number one factor in winning and losing fights is how much pressure you're under and how much focus is on your group, and those factors are almost always in your favour when all 3 factions are involved. Inevitably the other 2 factions are going to be looking at each other and not just you.

I've led many of these against red guilds. Haxus in particular loved to do this thing where they'd come into a blue/yellow fight, bomb big then run for the hills or a tower. I'd usually try a counter bomb if I saw em coming but if not I'd just let em run because I can't give up the line to AD. Then they'd lurk around the backline for a while, bomb big again, retreat again, rinse and repeat. It's fun and it makes for great clips but it's entirely dependent on the other groups being busy with each other. You don't get that kind of space to work with when it's red vs blue (or whatever combo) and all involved are laser focused on each other, you just don't.

Real 3 faction fights, in the open, ongoing; those died with the death of the steel Tornado meta. Since that died damage comes in pulses, burst phases than retreat phases, whereas before if you were a real machine you could pump out the damage continuously and rotate 4-5 barriers to keep your group alive and rolling indefinitely. Since the VD/instadeath meta began that's been impossible to replicate on anyone but super pugs, far too easy to just apply more burst than anyone can live through. Hell, I can put enough burst on you guys to blow you up and you run more hp than 90% of the server. That's the meta we're in. It's pretty dumb

This is why I mostly just shrug at that three faction stuff. Good farms, fun times, but ultimately those who do it benefit massively from not being the only target on the field. Hardest fights in the game are when everyone's looking at you.

I think the main difference is, as Anairi commented, is what type of 3 way fights you consider.
Sure the hit and run bombing is a decent thing and can be funny but it doesn't really achieve something where as trying to take an objective which the other factions are fighting over is much more challenging and rewarding to achieve. You can't just bomb and go out.

2 way fights always go the same way, cat and mouse until one side gets bored and pushes. I don't see the challenge in that. sure you have some positioning play but not if the other group never comes to fight somewhere other than openfield. In that situation whichever side has more numbers will generally win due to sheer numbers (or whichever side's pugs arrive).

So I would say from my point of view 3 faction objective based fights are the most challenging and rewarding. At leas thats been my experience over the years leading on EU and NA

NBrookus

Satiar wrote: »

That said, I find people tend to mostly ignore us when we do make our rare cross map journeys. I've pretty much given up trying to find fights st Sej, as EP just pushes Aleswell and AD pushes Ash. Usually it's a boring 30 minutes until we suicide to go save back keeps.

Doors come down so fast now with a ram and 20/20 siege, the keep is lit by the time the call goes out via zone chat (if anyone is even there to see it) and you guys are on the flags before reinforcements even have time to arrive. Flags flip practically instantly with that many stacking a flag.

If I happen to be near or inside a keep I'll try to get in a few kills before getting overwhelmed, but I sure won't bother to attempt to rush to defend when someone calls out a full raid at a front door, because it'll be flipped before I can get there.

Rin_Senya

Satiar wrote: »

Real 3 faction fights, in the open, ongoing; those died with the death of the steel Tornado meta. Since that died damage comes in pulses, burst phases than retreat phases, whereas before if you were a real machine you could pump out the damage continuously and rotate 4-5 barriers to keep your group alive and rolling indefinitely. Since the VD/instadeath meta began that's been impossible to replicate on anyone but super pugs, far too easy to just apply more burst than anyone can live through.

It died not because of "new meta" with destro ulties, but because how purge/rapid and negate mechanics critically changed fights for groups. Everyone is referring to destro ulti as the thing which killed everything...but group play was always about high burst in every patch, destro ulti is no different to this. Either you burst your enemy faster or you will be killed so sure EoTS is an OP skill but its not 'critical' to the issue compared to the other changes.

There are only 2-3 guilds in this game who really adapted to these changes. A lot of guilds died because of this and most remaining groups who haven't adapted prefer to zerg surf with their own faction rather than creating their own fights other side of the map. The new combat style requires more from your group members in terms of effort and dedication, as @Valencer said:

Valencer wrote: »

A group needs good movement and players that know how to balance group goals and personal survival, or the group won't last very long. The players also need to be willing to run exactly the right setups (including class and gear) for optimal group performance.
...
Most other guilds seem to be unable to even get people to run the right classes/builds, and they struggle as a result.

Satiar

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Real 3 faction fights, in the open, ongoing; those died with the death of the steel Tornado meta. Since that died damage comes in pulses, burst phases than retreat phases, whereas before if you were a real machine you could pump out the damage continuously and rotate 4-5 barriers to keep your group alive and rolling indefinitely. Since the VD/instadeath meta began that's been impossible to replicate on anyone but super pugs, far too easy to just apply more burst than anyone can live through.

It died not because of "new meta" with destro ulties, but because how purge/rapid and negate mechanics critically changed fights for groups. Everyone is referring to destro ulti as the thing which killed everything...but group play was always about high burst in every patch, destro ulti is no different to this. Either you burst your enemy faster or you will be killed so sure EoTS is an OP skill but its not 'critical' to the issue compared to the other changes.

There are only 2-3 guilds in this game who really adapted to these changes. A lot of guilds died because of this and most remaining groups who haven't adapted prefer to zerg surf with their own faction rather than creating their own fights other side of the map. The new combat style requires more from your group members in terms of effort and dedication, as @Valencer said:

Valencer wrote: »

A group needs good movement and players that know how to balance group goals and personal survival, or the group won't last very long. The players also need to be willing to run exactly the right setups (including class and gear) for optimal group performance.
...
Most other guilds seem to be unable to even get people to run the right classes/builds, and they struggle as a result.

Destro ult and VD absolutely changed the game. Good bombers like Crispen Longbow or Sneaky, etc., put out damage by themselves that it used to take a raid to do. Anyone who says that didn't change the game drastically gets the side eye from me.

There's more to winning than dumping destros but facts is facts. High burst damage used to be a team sport, now it's not. EoTS being a dumbly designed ult doesn't help tho. ZoS deliberately removed mitigation tools and added huge damage modifiers into the game. It is what it is.

Joy_Division

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Real 3 faction fights, in the open, ongoing; those died with the death of the steel Tornado meta. Since that died damage comes in pulses, burst phases than retreat phases, whereas before if you were a real machine you could pump out the damage continuously and rotate 4-5 barriers to keep your group alive and rolling indefinitely. Since the VD/instadeath meta began that's been impossible to replicate on anyone but super pugs, far too easy to just apply more burst than anyone can live through.

It died not because of "new meta" with destro ulties, but because how purge/rapid and negate mechanics critically changed fights for groups. Everyone is referring to destro ulti as the thing which killed everything...but group play was always about high burst in every patch, destro ulti is no different to this. Either you burst your enemy faster or you will be killed so sure EoTS is an OP skill but its not 'critical' to the issue compared to the other changes.

There are only 2-3 guilds in this game who really adapted to these changes. A lot of guilds died because of this and most remaining groups who haven't adapted prefer to zerg surf with their own faction rather than creating their own fights other side of the map. The new combat style requires more from your group members in terms of effort and dedication, as @Valencer said:

Valencer wrote: »

A group needs good movement and players that know how to balance group goals and personal survival, or the group won't last very long. The players also need to be willing to run exactly the right setups (including class and gear) for optimal group performance.
...
Most other guilds seem to be unable to even get people to run the right classes/builds, and they struggle as a result.

Desro ulti totally changed things. Before it was pretty much a decent magblade tether + proc that had to be timed correctly that could put damage that could wipe a group by themselves. Now even inexperienced players can put on clever alch + VD on any magicka class and put out crazy damage just by moving.

While I would agree only 2-3 guilds stuck around, I don't think it was because they were the only ones who adapted. Rather a lot of old players thought the game and group fights were so dumbed down they rather do something different so there has been a lot of attrition.

I don't know how any of the devs could possibly play this game every night and be proud of the present Cyrodiil they have made. They either don't, aren't competitive, or are just apathetic.

BraidasNM

Joy_Division wrote: »

Rin_Senya wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Real 3 faction fights, in the open, ongoing; those died with the death of the steel Tornado meta. Since that died damage comes in pulses, burst phases than retreat phases, whereas before if you were a real machine you could pump out the damage continuously and rotate 4-5 barriers to keep your group alive and rolling indefinitely. Since the VD/instadeath meta began that's been impossible to replicate on anyone but super pugs, far too easy to just apply more burst than anyone can live through.

It died not because of "new meta" with destro ulties, but because how purge/rapid and negate mechanics critically changed fights for groups. Everyone is referring to destro ulti as the thing which killed everything...but group play was always about high burst in every patch, destro ulti is no different to this. Either you burst your enemy faster or you will be killed so sure EoTS is an OP skill but its not 'critical' to the issue compared to the other changes.

There are only 2-3 guilds in this game who really adapted to these changes. A lot of guilds died because of this and most remaining groups who haven't adapted prefer to zerg surf with their own faction rather than creating their own fights other side of the map. The new combat style requires more from your group members in terms of effort and dedication, as @Valencer said:

Valencer wrote: »

A group needs good movement and players that know how to balance group goals and personal survival, or the group won't last very long. The players also need to be willing to run exactly the right setups (including class and gear) for optimal group performance.
...
Most other guilds seem to be unable to even get people to run the right classes/builds, and they struggle as a result.

Rather a lot of old players thought the game and group fights were so dumbed down they rather do something different so there has been a lot of attrition.

yup

Vilestride

Meta is Meta, they change all the time, but regardless of what the meta is the better players are still at the top EVERY SINGLE TIME, no new meta has ever come along that meant lesser quality players were suddenly on the top. I have seen this in every competitive E-Sport I have ever participated in or watched.

Players who are relics of the past are exactly that, their relevance in talk of current Meta or current stature in this game is lost to me?

Satiar

Giahh wrote: »

Meta is Meta, they change all the time, but regardless of what the meta is the better players are still at the top EVERY SINGLE TIME, no new meta has ever come along that meant lesser quality players were suddenly on the top. I have seen this in every competitive E-Sport I have ever participated in or watched.

Players who are relics of the past are exactly that, their relevance in talk of current Meta or current stature in this game is lost to me?

Eh not quite. Better players may remain at the top but there is such a thing as lowering the ceiling and raising the floor, and that's precisely what's occurred in ESO pvp and that seems to be what

Vilestride

Satiar wrote: »

Giahh wrote: »

Meta is Meta, they change all the time, but regardless of what the meta is the better players are still at the top EVERY SINGLE TIME, no new meta has ever come along that meant lesser quality players were suddenly on the top. I have seen this in every competitive E-Sport I have ever participated in or watched.

Players who are relics of the past are exactly that, their relevance in talk of current Meta or current stature in this game is lost to me?

Eh not quite. Better players may remain at the top but there is such a thing as lowering the ceiling and raising the floor, and that's precisely what's occurred in ESO pvp and that seems to be what

Too many people crutching on Meta shift as an excuse. We all know EOTF/Negate is the Go to for group bombings. The point remains the same. we all have access to the same tools. Some people just do it better. On a consistent basis so I don't really know what there is to complain about.

Take the last GvG as an example. Did K-Hole win the last GvG because the meta favoured them more? No they won because they were better. I have no doubt if you repeated that same GvG with the exact same teams in this meta the result would not change. Better guilds/players will constantly come out on top

Publius_Scipio

Giahh wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Giahh wrote: »

Meta is Meta, they change all the time, but regardless of what the meta is the better players are still at the top EVERY SINGLE TIME, no new meta has ever come along that meant lesser quality players were suddenly on the top. I have seen this in every competitive E-Sport I have ever participated in or watched.

Players who are relics of the past are exactly that, their relevance in talk of current Meta or current stature in this game is lost to me?

Eh not quite. Better players may remain at the top but there is such a thing as lowering the ceiling and raising the floor, and that's precisely what's occurred in ESO pvp and that seems to be what

Too many people crutching on Meta shift as an excuse. We all know EOTF/Negate is the Go to for group bombings. The point remains the same. we all have access to the same tools. Some people just do it better. On a consistent basis so I don't really know what there is to complain about.

Take the last GvG as an example. Did K-Hole win the last GvG because the meta favoured them more? No they won because they were better. I have no doubt if you repeated that same GvG with the exact same teams in this meta the result would not change. Better guilds/players will constantly come out on top

The result is me dragging Elong Trumpetbar by his ankles out of Bruma and into the snow, taking off my belt, and lashing him across his back. For his meta 8 man DKs, templars, wardens, and Minney & Mickey Mouse that camped that town.

Even though you all descended upon me in unison like rabid animals in heat Elong, I still managed to gouge one of your wardens' eyes out and send his soul on its way.

Nivellan

Giahh wrote: »

Meta is Meta, they change all the time, but regardless of what the meta is the better players are still at the top EVERY SINGLE TIME, no new meta has ever come along that meant lesser quality players were suddenly on the top. I have seen this in every competitive E-Sport I have ever participated in or watched.

Players who are relics of the past are exactly that, their relevance in talk of current Meta or current stature in this game is lost to me?

The meta can be whatever it wants to be, but that doesn't mean anyone has to like it. I don't think players who have been at the top of the guild pvp scene since the game came out dislike this meta because they can't deal with it...

Giahh wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Giahh wrote: »

Meta is Meta, they change all the time, but regardless of what the meta is the better players are still at the top EVERY SINGLE TIME, no new meta has ever come along that meant lesser quality players were suddenly on the top. I have seen this in every competitive E-Sport I have ever participated in or watched.

Players who are relics of the past are exactly that, their relevance in talk of current Meta or current stature in this game is lost to me?

Eh not quite. Better players may remain at the top but there is such a thing as lowering the ceiling and raising the floor, and that's precisely what's occurred in ESO pvp and that seems to be what

Too many people crutching on Meta shift as an excuse. We all know EOTF/Negate is the Go to for group bombings. The point remains the same. we all have access to the same tools. Some people just do it better. On a consistent basis so I don't really know what there is to complain about.

Take the last GvG as an example. Did K-Hole win the last GvG because the meta favoured them more? No they won because they were better. I have no doubt if you repeated that same GvG with the exact same teams in this meta the result would not change. Better guilds/players will constantly come out on top

Is K-Hole a "relic of the past" now because they hate destro ulti and stopped playing the game for a considerable amount of time because they didn't like the meta?

Publius_Scipio

Nivellan wrote: »

Giahh wrote: »

Meta is Meta, they change all the time, but regardless of what the meta is the better players are still at the top EVERY SINGLE TIME, no new meta has ever come along that meant lesser quality players were suddenly on the top. I have seen this in every competitive E-Sport I have ever participated in or watched.

Players who are relics of the past are exactly that, their relevance in talk of current Meta or current stature in this game is lost to me?

The meta can be whatever it wants to be, but that doesn't mean anyone has to like it. I don't think players who have been at the top of the guild pvp scene since the game came out dislike this meta because they can't deal with it...

Giahh wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Giahh wrote: »

Meta is Meta, they change all the time, but regardless of what the meta is the better players are still at the top EVERY SINGLE TIME, no new meta has ever come along that meant lesser quality players were suddenly on the top. I have seen this in every competitive E-Sport I have ever participated in or watched.

Players who are relics of the past are exactly that, their relevance in talk of current Meta or current stature in this game is lost to me?

Eh not quite. Better players may remain at the top but there is such a thing as lowering the ceiling and raising the floor, and that's precisely what's occurred in ESO pvp and that seems to be what

Too many people crutching on Meta shift as an excuse. We all know EOTF/Negate is the Go to for group bombings. The point remains the same. we all have access to the same tools. Some people just do it better. On a consistent basis so I don't really know what there is to complain about.

Take the last GvG as an example. Did K-Hole win the last GvG because the meta favoured them more? No they won because they were better. I have no doubt if you repeated that same GvG with the exact same teams in this meta the result would not change. Better guilds/players will constantly come out on top

Is K-Hole a "relic of the past" now because they hate destro ulti and stopped playing the game for a considerable amount of time because they didn't like the meta?

Everyone knows that we are all really waiting for Fixate, Nicolle, Murder Thumbs, and Columba to return. Then ESO PvP will enter a new story arc.

So if you see this message Fixate and Nicolle, time to crawl out of your dusty coffins and log back in. My apologies in advance for bats no longer being bugged. But I'm sure you'll figure something out.

Nivellan

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nivellan wrote: »

Giahh wrote: »

Meta is Meta, they change all the time, but regardless of what the meta is the better players are still at the top EVERY SINGLE TIME, no new meta has ever come along that meant lesser quality players were suddenly on the top. I have seen this in every competitive E-Sport I have ever participated in or watched.

Players who are relics of the past are exactly that, their relevance in talk of current Meta or current stature in this game is lost to me?

The meta can be whatever it wants to be, but that doesn't mean anyone has to like it. I don't think players who have been at the top of the guild pvp scene since the game came out dislike this meta because they can't deal with it...

Giahh wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Giahh wrote: »

Meta is Meta, they change all the time, but regardless of what the meta is the better players are still at the top EVERY SINGLE TIME, no new meta has ever come along that meant lesser quality players were suddenly on the top. I have seen this in every competitive E-Sport I have ever participated in or watched.

Players who are relics of the past are exactly that, their relevance in talk of current Meta or current stature in this game is lost to me?

Eh not quite. Better players may remain at the top but there is such a thing as lowering the ceiling and raising the floor, and that's precisely what's occurred in ESO pvp and that seems to be what

Too many people crutching on Meta shift as an excuse. We all know EOTF/Negate is the Go to for group bombings. The point remains the same. we all have access to the same tools. Some people just do it better. On a consistent basis so I don't really know what there is to complain about.

Take the last GvG as an example. Did K-Hole win the last GvG because the meta favoured them more? No they won because they were better. I have no doubt if you repeated that same GvG with the exact same teams in this meta the result would not change. Better guilds/players will constantly come out on top

Is K-Hole a "relic of the past" now because they hate destro ulti and stopped playing the game for a considerable amount of time because they didn't like the meta?

Everyone knows that we are all really waiting for Fixate, Nicolle, Murder Thumbs, and Columba to return. Then ESO PvP will enter a new story arc.

So if you see this message Fixate and Nicolle, time to crawl out of your dusty coffins and log back in. My apologies in advance for bats no longer being bugged. But I'm sure you'll figure something out.

Columba is too busy complaining on the BDO forums. He's probably still having flashbacks of impulse.

Publius_Scipio

Nivellan wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nivellan wrote: »

Giahh wrote: »

Meta is Meta, they change all the time, but regardless of what the meta is the better players are still at the top EVERY SINGLE TIME, no new meta has ever come along that meant lesser quality players were suddenly on the top. I have seen this in every competitive E-Sport I have ever participated in or watched.

Players who are relics of the past are exactly that, their relevance in talk of current Meta or current stature in this game is lost to me?

The meta can be whatever it wants to be, but that doesn't mean anyone has to like it. I don't think players who have been at the top of the guild pvp scene since the game came out dislike this meta because they can't deal with it...

Giahh wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Giahh wrote: »

Meta is Meta, they change all the time, but regardless of what the meta is the better players are still at the top EVERY SINGLE TIME, no new meta has ever come along that meant lesser quality players were suddenly on the top. I have seen this in every competitive E-Sport I have ever participated in or watched.

Players who are relics of the past are exactly that, their relevance in talk of current Meta or current stature in this game is lost to me?

Eh not quite. Better players may remain at the top but there is such a thing as lowering the ceiling and raising the floor, and that's precisely what's occurred in ESO pvp and that seems to be what

Too many people crutching on Meta shift as an excuse. We all know EOTF/Negate is the Go to for group bombings. The point remains the same. we all have access to the same tools. Some people just do it better. On a consistent basis so I don't really know what there is to complain about.

Take the last GvG as an example. Did K-Hole win the last GvG because the meta favoured them more? No they won because they were better. I have no doubt if you repeated that same GvG with the exact same teams in this meta the result would not change. Better guilds/players will constantly come out on top

Is K-Hole a "relic of the past" now because they hate destro ulti and stopped playing the game for a considerable amount of time because they didn't like the meta?

Everyone knows that we are all really waiting for Fixate, Nicolle, Murder Thumbs, and Columba to return. Then ESO PvP will enter a new story arc.

So if you see this message Fixate and Nicolle, time to crawl out of your dusty coffins and log back in. My apologies in advance for bats no longer being bugged. But I'm sure you'll figure something out.

Columba is too busy complaining on the BDO forums. He's probably still having flashbacks of impulse.

What!!!!??? You can tell us for certain Columba is alive and well and in BDO!? Tell Columba I await his return. We need him!

BraidasNM

found the first gvg from azoi's perspective

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdAXEyAYbA0&amp;t=1064s

idk if anyone recorded the second gvg but i'd like to watch it if its out there