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#1 Reason CP Campaigns are More Populated than Non-CP?
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DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's mainly because they have more people in them.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub5 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Because CP is far more forgiving. People can't handle the pressure both from other players and from siege, without relying on CP.1 -
You could be right about the AP but the flip side is that once you or your small group takes a resource, it's much easier to farm AP since the strong guards make holding the resource easier.
It seems like there is a lot of disagreement over whether CP or no CP is better. Honestly I doubt there's any way to really determine the correct answer to this debate. Consider the following points that (hopefully) we can all agree on:
1) siege is stronger (relative to players) in no CP
2) proc sets and poisons are stronger (relative to players) in no CP
3) resource management is more difficult in no CP
4) NPC guards are stronger (relative to players) in no CP.
5) No CP less forgiving on players for mistakes made
All five points are objectively true (except possibly #5) but whether they're balanced is a completely subjective analysis for each player. Take stronger siege for example. Personally I am a fan for a number of reasons. It allows players uncomfortable with fighting on the front lines a way to meaningfully contribute. It provides a mechanism for beating organized groups who like to tower farm. I imagine though, that if you're a group who does like to tower farm or someone who likes to face tank groups during keep assaults you might not appreciate strong siege as much. Same goes for proc sets. I don't use them and I agree they are strong in no CP but in 1v1 fights I don't find them to be particularly problematic. Against multiple enemies sure they can kill you fast but losing in that situation there's no definitive of knowing if you actually lost because of proc sets or if you'd have been killed some other way.
Ultimately the debate comes down to the fact that they're two different play styles and which is "better" is almost entirely subjective. Both types of campaigns should IMO be supported so that people have a choice to play their preferred way. For this same reason I also think they should be balanced separately; simply removing CP and changing nothing else is a ham-fisted way of handling the situation, especially since (as many others have pointed out) the game has for the most part been balanced with CP in mind.4 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I've asked about this since Non-Vet became a thing. The answer I was given is that although they can change rule sets, the pieces (i.e. NPC guards) are static across campaigns.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
@FENGRUSH play NO co and he a Stamsorc.fastolfv_ESO wrote: »simple no cp is basically designed for every kiddy to play a nb kill someone without cp resists faster than you can react and jump up and down squealing about how great they are. Every person and every streamer out there defending no cp is maining a nb, coincidence?
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.
Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)
Smaller groups and solo players in general perform better in CP campaigns.
NonCP has less dmg in relation to HP pool compared to CP - that makes fights last longer (excluding procctatoes). Longer fights mean a higher chance for adds.
Less dmg also means scoring kills while outnumbered with lots of heals flying around is harder in nonCP.
In general nonCP favors medium to large organised groups (8+ players) over anything else unless you´re really into clicking leftmouse every few secs.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Zvorgin✭✭✭✭✭They should give players the stats they lose through battle spirit in no CP. I'd be happy with that, I just hate losing 6k magicka and stamina or whatever the number is when I go into no cp pvp.3
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Zvorgin✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.
Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)
That sounds very unscientific and dubious.
Most of the AP generated does not come from capturing resources, but killing enemy players in high traffic areas.
People play the game to have fun. Those of us who sit in 100+ queues on the weekend aren't doing so because it's easier to kill resource guards, it's because we have a better time in CP campaign than in non.
Really? You enjoy sitting in a 100+q and than fighting the lag monster?
I enjoy not having to wait and having a smooth gaming experience.
FYI, 2 hours ago 5at sotha sil 50 DC and 50 AD just battled it out at roe with *gasp* no lag! It was a lot of fun.
More people really should give no cp a chance. Performance is better and it's populated. There are builds that work people just need to adapt.
I don't enjoy sitting in a que that is unnecessarily long because of ZoS's inability to gauge or even ask what it's community prefers. But it's not like I'm twiddling my thumbs. There are other things I can do with my time, I usually read. So the queue, while an unnecessary inconvenience, isn't going to drive me to do something I'd rather not play.
Smooth game performance is not the only reason I play videogames or even this one, It's not like queing for Sotha Sil will put an end to endless load screens. And I'm getting tired of people every patch telling me I just "need to adapt." I'm not a noob. I've played this game long before there was CP, I've played Backwater Blade, I've played in the old Azura's Campaign, I did the whole no CP week, I've play Battlegrounds right now with no CP, and I've played well in all of these environments. I don't need people to hold my hand telling me what sets to run, I don't need CPs as a "crutch" to beat other players, I don't need to be told what builds work and which ones do not. I can compete just fine in a no CP environment. I just don't prefer it.
The game, the gear, the proc sets, the siege, the poisons, resource management, the block costs, dodge roll scaling, the damage, Battle Spirit, etc., all of this was and is designed with the Champion System in mind. Simply taking away the Champion System and not adjusting everything else is going to throw things out of whack. That is why I sit in queues and why I simply stop doing BGs after a death recap full of Viper, Red Mountain, Oblivion damage, and Tremorscale.
It's funny that's what my cp pvp death recaps look like as well. I actually think cp pvp has alot more problems than non cp which is why i spend most of my time in battle grounds. Cyrodill in cp campaigns still has to many problems. It's mainly survivability cp makes some classes and builds way too survivalble. No cp you are punished for your mistakes. So of course players will gravitate towards more forgiving pvp and want to play with cp
Technically CP is less forgiving from a damage dealing perspective, burst actually has to be timed to over come higher mitigation. No CP is easy mode for high damage builds so honestly I'd say no CP is for the people who need a crutch. Just throw on some cheeses proc set and melt people, no skill needed. Don't have to even worry about sustain.4 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭In CP campaigns, people can't one-shot you with proc sets. The only nonCP campaign I'm alright with is Kyne, since it's a safer place for new players to learn pvp.For the love of Kyne, buff sorc. PC NACP 2100+Star-Sïnger - Khajiit Magicka Sorc - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror vMA/vBRP/vDSA no death/vHel Ra HM/vAA HM/vSO HM/vMoL HM/vHoF HM/vAS +2/vCR+3/vSS HMs/vKA HMs/vVH/vRG Oax HM/vDSR2 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They should give players the stats they lose through battle spirit in no CP. I'd be happy with that, I just hate losing 6k magicka and stamina or whatever the number is when I go into no cp pvp.
That's not because of Battle Spirit. CP increases max health, stamina and magicka passively.
Edited by zyk on July 3, 2017 8:04PM1 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭I play in both and these arguments are generally bias, people typically argue the side they enjoy more albeit both cp & no cp pvp has its issue's.2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Comfortably_Buzzed wrote: »You could be right about the AP but the flip side is that once you or your small group takes a resource, it's much easier to farm AP since the strong guards make holding the resource easier.
It seems like there is a lot of disagreement over whether CP or no CP is better. Honestly I doubt there's any way to really determine the correct answer to this debate. Consider the following points that (hopefully) we can all agree on:
5) No CP less forgiving on players for mistakes made
All five points are objectively true
That's an opinion, not an objective truth.
Edited by Joy_Division on July 3, 2017 8:02PM2 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.
Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)
That sounds very unscientific and dubious.
Most of the AP generated does not come from capturing resources, but killing enemy players in high traffic areas.
People play the game to have fun. Those of us who sit in 100+ queues on the weekend aren't doing so because it's easier to kill resource guards, it's because we have a better time in CP campaign than in non.
Really? You enjoy sitting in a 100+q and than fighting the lag monster?
I enjoy not having to wait and having a smooth gaming experience.
FYI, 2 hours ago 5at sotha sil 50 DC and 50 AD just battled it out at roe with *gasp* no lag! It was a lot of fun.
More people really should give no cp a chance. Performance is better and it's populated. There are builds that work people just need to adapt.
I don't enjoy sitting in a que that is unnecessarily long because of ZoS's inability to gauge or even ask what it's community prefers. But it's not like I'm twiddling my thumbs. There are other things I can do with my time, I usually read. So the queue, while an unnecessary inconvenience, isn't going to drive me to do something I'd rather not play.
Smooth game performance is not the only reason I play videogames or even this one, It's not like queing for Sotha Sil will put an end to endless load screens. And I'm getting tired of people every patch telling me I just "need to adapt." I'm not a noob. I've played this game long before there was CP, I've played Backwater Blade, I've played in the old Azura's Campaign, I did the whole no CP week, I've play Battlegrounds right now with no CP, and I've played well in all of these environments. I don't need people to hold my hand telling me what sets to run, I don't need CPs as a "crutch" to beat other players, I don't need to be told what builds work and which ones do not. I can compete just fine in a no CP environment. I just don't prefer it.
The game, the gear, the proc sets, the siege, the poisons, resource management, the block costs, dodge roll scaling, the damage, Battle Spirit, etc., all of this was and is designed with the Champion System in mind. Simply taking away the Champion System and not adjusting everything else is going to throw things out of whack. That is why I sit in queues and why I simply stop doing BGs after a death recap full of Viper, Red Mountain, Oblivion damage, and Tremorscale.
It's funny that's what my cp pvp death recaps look like as well. I actually think cp pvp has alot more problems than non cp which is why i spend most of my time in battle grounds. Cyrodill in cp campaigns still has to many problems. It's mainly survivability cp makes some classes and builds way too survivalble. No cp you are punished for your mistakes. So of course players will gravitate towards more forgiving pvp and want to play with cp
I fail to see exactly what "mistake" I made not being able to survive 20K invisible and unavoidable damage in a matter of a few seconds.
I'm being punished for playing in a system that allows damage designed to be scaled with the Champion system in mind to hit me with no Champion System and that stats that accompany it, not because of my perceived lack of skill.
I'm also getting real tired of people saying i gravitate toward what they think is easy mode PvP. People are entitled to their opinions, but I don't make incorrect and disparaging assumptions as to why they hold those opinions.
I'm not perceiving you have a lack of skill because you like cp pvp. i play in a cp campaign myself, but i also recognize how easy it is to survive in a cp campaign. Overall people usually take the easy way out which is Why proc sets are every where and the cp campaigns have ques of 150. You will also take 20k invisible damage in cp pvp people still are being ganked in cp pvp as well. I personally try to run builds that can't be ganked. In both cp and no cp i run builds with good sustain and survivability and i get my burst from combos.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.
Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)
Smaller groups and solo players in general perform better in CP campaigns.
NonCP has less dmg in relation to HP pool compared to CP - that makes fights last longer (excluding procctatoes). Longer fights mean a higher chance for adds.
Less dmg also means scoring kills while outnumbered with lots of heals flying around is harder in nonCP.
In general nonCP favors medium to large organised groups (8+ players) over anything else unless you´re really into clicking leftmouse every few secs.
I actually find solo play more enjoyable. In no cp because players actually die. What I'm noticing is players aren't good at managing resources and they spam abilities when they are being pressured. Those players are a huge problem in cp campaigns but drop really fast in no cp0 -
disintegr8✭✭✭✭✭
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Even leveling in Kyne, my characters only get new gear every 10 levels and until recently I have always deconstructed it when they finish with it as I never thought far enough ahead to hold onto it in case I rolled another characterTequilaFire wrote: »disintegr8 wrote: »
Not correct, Kyne is full of experienced players who keep rolling new characters, hence noobs will always get their butts handed to them. When you see a level 16 wearing BiS gear you know they are 'professional amateurs' - most people only worry about getting BiS gear once they level up.WuffyCerulei wrote: »CP requires more than people to throw a few proc sets and go to town on everyone. Now that infinite sustaina and unkilliable players seems to be a thing of the past, it's more intense and requires skill.
The only non-CP campaign I'm alright with is Kyne, since it allows for newer players to learn pvp whilst not getting their butts handed to them.
My assumption is that some people don't want to let go of their sense of superiority by playing with the big boys and girls, but would rather stay here where they don't really feel challenged. Kind of like the sports team who win every game of the season but lose the grand final to prevent being promoted to a higher division.
Really? My level 20 BiS gear disagrees with you! lol
Saw an example of what I was talking about yesterday - someone typing up in text chat why our alliance always loses, another player tells them to stop complaining, the first person comes back calling them 'some unknown guy'. This first person was also less than impressed when someone legitimately asked what BRK stood for.
I didn't realize you had to earn the right to pass comment or ask questions in the 'PVP learner zone'. Maybe they need to create a true learner PVP area where access is truly restricted to beginners, because Kyne certainly is not always learner friendly.Australian on PS4 NA server.
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.1 -
Zvorgin✭✭✭✭✭
I know, I was saying that the stats we lose from our CP should be given through battle spirit in no CP.They should give players the stats they lose through battle spirit in no CP. I'd be happy with that, I just hate losing 6k magicka and stamina or whatever the number is when I go into no cp pvp.
That's not because of Battle Spirit. CP increases max health, stamina and magicka passively.
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IxskullzxI✭✭✭✭Imo they should get rid of cp in all campaigns and balance the game from there. I think it would be better in the long run. I won't be surprised, though, if most campaigns and BGs go back to having cp. I think they just did this for the release of BGs. If they had cp in BG right away it would be very discouraging for newer/lower cp players to buy morrowind and play bg if it had cp.#HowDoYouLikeYourDK?0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.
Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)
That sounds very unscientific and dubious.
Most of the AP generated does not come from capturing resources, but killing enemy players in high traffic areas.
People play the game to have fun. Those of us who sit in 100+ queues on the weekend aren't doing so because it's easier to kill resource guards, it's because we have a better time in CP campaign than in non.
Really? You enjoy sitting in a 100+q and than fighting the lag monster?
I enjoy not having to wait and having a smooth gaming experience.
FYI, 2 hours ago 5at sotha sil 50 DC and 50 AD just battled it out at roe with *gasp* no lag! It was a lot of fun.
More people really should give no cp a chance. Performance is better and it's populated. There are builds that work people just need to adapt.
I don't enjoy sitting in a que that is unnecessarily long because of ZoS's inability to gauge or even ask what it's community prefers. But it's not like I'm twiddling my thumbs. There are other things I can do with my time, I usually read. So the queue, while an unnecessary inconvenience, isn't going to drive me to do something I'd rather not play.
Smooth game performance is not the only reason I play videogames or even this one, It's not like queing for Sotha Sil will put an end to endless load screens. And I'm getting tired of people every patch telling me I just "need to adapt." I'm not a noob. I've played this game long before there was CP, I've played Backwater Blade, I've played in the old Azura's Campaign, I did the whole no CP week, I've play Battlegrounds right now with no CP, and I've played well in all of these environments. I don't need people to hold my hand telling me what sets to run, I don't need CPs as a "crutch" to beat other players, I don't need to be told what builds work and which ones do not. I can compete just fine in a no CP environment. I just don't prefer it.
The game, the gear, the proc sets, the siege, the poisons, resource management, the block costs, dodge roll scaling, the damage, Battle Spirit, etc., all of this was and is designed with the Champion System in mind. Simply taking away the Champion System and not adjusting everything else is going to throw things out of whack. That is why I sit in queues and why I simply stop doing BGs after a death recap full of Viper, Red Mountain, Oblivion damage, and Tremorscale.
It's funny that's what my cp pvp death recaps look like as well. I actually think cp pvp has alot more problems than non cp which is why i spend most of my time in battle grounds. Cyrodill in cp campaigns still has to many problems. It's mainly survivability cp makes some classes and builds way too survivalble. No cp you are punished for your mistakes. So of course players will gravitate towards more forgiving pvp and want to play with cp
I fail to see exactly what "mistake" I made not being able to survive 20K invisible and unavoidable damage in a matter of a few seconds.
I'm being punished for playing in a system that allows damage designed to be scaled with the Champion system in mind to hit me with no Champion System and that stats that accompany it, not because of my perceived lack of skill.
I'm also getting real tired of people saying i gravitate toward what they think is easy mode PvP. People are entitled to their opinions, but I don't make incorrect and disparaging assumptions as to why they hold those opinions.
I'm not perceiving you have a lack of skill because you like cp pvp. i play in a cp campaign myself, but i also recognize how easy it is to survive in a cp campaign. Overall people usually take the easy way out which is Why proc sets are every where and the cp campaigns have ques of 150. You will also take 20k invisible damage in cp pvp people still are being ganked in cp pvp as well. I personally try to run builds that can't be ganked. In both cp and no cp i run builds with good sustain and survivability and i get my burst from combos.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.
Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)
Smaller groups and solo players in general perform better in CP campaigns.
NonCP has less dmg in relation to HP pool compared to CP - that makes fights last longer (excluding procctatoes). Longer fights mean a higher chance for adds.
Less dmg also means scoring kills while outnumbered with lots of heals flying around is harder in nonCP.
In general nonCP favors medium to large organised groups (8+ players) over anything else unless you´re really into clicking leftmouse every few secs.
I actually find solo play more enjoyable. In no cp because players actually die. What I'm noticing is players aren't good at managing resources and they spam abilities when they are being pressured. Those players are a huge problem in cp campaigns but drop really fast in no cp
@thankyourat honestly how do you still claim there would be a significant difference in sustain for CP and nonCP pvp? The difference is literally 15% rec bonus at best. I´m literally not changing even one glyph when changing between cyroCP and battlegrounds (and battlegrounds are far mor resource intensive than 1v1 or open world encounters).
I find soloplay absolutely unbearable in nonCP pvp against competent players. The trashplayers die regardless of campaign they´re in.
In nonCP pvp someone with a proper template does not run out of resources. While at the same time dmg to hp is vastly in favor of HP (as in i loose 15% hp but 45% dmg in nonCP without switching gear).
I could go into detail about that being more of a problem for burst classes than it is for sustained/dot pressure but i´d like to have my question answered first.
Edited by Derra on July 4, 2017 6:24AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Drummerx04✭✭✭✭✭
✭
@thankyourat honestly how do you still claim there would be a significant difference in sustain for CP and nonCP pvp? The difference is literally 15% rec bonus at best. I´m literally not changing even one glyph when changing between cyroCP and battlegrounds (and battlegrounds are far mor resource intensive than 1v1 or open world encounters).
I find soloplay absolutely unbearable in nonCP pvp against competent players. The trashplayers die regardless of campaign they´re in.
In nonCP pvp someone with a proper template does not run out of resources. While at the same time dmg to hp is vastly in favor of HP (as in i loose 15% hp but 45% dmg in nonCP without switching gear).
I could go into detail about that being more of a problem for burst classes than it is for sustained/dot pressure but i´d like to have my question answered first.
Yeah, this. Some people talk about noCP like it's the sole indicator whether you understand how to make a build... like hmm, let me think... I'm having sustain issues. Maybe I should try some regen glyphs and/or heavy attack here and there. OH LOOK IT WORKED I MUST ME A GOD LIKE THEORY CRAFTER!
As a magsorc, the sustain issues I have in no CP literally only comes from the 4k weaker Hardened ward. A single cast is no longer enough to mitigate a strong proc... so I have to cast more shields when facing proc builds.
Side note: I've never been able to sustain ONLY because of CP. If I didn't build with regen on my pvp setup with 100 points in Magician and Arcanist, I would be OOM in < 30 seconds.PC/NA - Nightfighters, Raid Leader and Officer
Lilith Arujo - DC sorc tank/dps/healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, Gryphon Heart, Grand Warlord
Lilith Tortorici - DC templar trials healer
Notable Completions:
vAS (72k), vMoL HM (160k), vAA HM (135k), vHRC HM, vSO HM (141k), vHoF HM (168k), vCR+3(129k), vDSA 45k, vMA 591k
Original Addons:
Lilith's Group Manager
Lilith's Lazy Hacks - Auto Recharge/Repair
Bot Scanner 2000
Lilith's Command History
Maintained Addons:
Kill Counter0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭thankyourat wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.
Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)
That sounds very unscientific and dubious.
Most of the AP generated does not come from capturing resources, but killing enemy players in high traffic areas.
People play the game to have fun. Those of us who sit in 100+ queues on the weekend aren't doing so because it's easier to kill resource guards, it's because we have a better time in CP campaign than in non.
Really? You enjoy sitting in a 100+q and than fighting the lag monster?
I enjoy not having to wait and having a smooth gaming experience.
FYI, 2 hours ago 5at sotha sil 50 DC and 50 AD just battled it out at roe with *gasp* no lag! It was a lot of fun.
More people really should give no cp a chance. Performance is better and it's populated. There are builds that work people just need to adapt.
I don't enjoy sitting in a que that is unnecessarily long because of ZoS's inability to gauge or even ask what it's community prefers. But it's not like I'm twiddling my thumbs. There are other things I can do with my time, I usually read. So the queue, while an unnecessary inconvenience, isn't going to drive me to do something I'd rather not play.
Smooth game performance is not the only reason I play videogames or even this one, It's not like queing for Sotha Sil will put an end to endless load screens. And I'm getting tired of people every patch telling me I just "need to adapt." I'm not a noob. I've played this game long before there was CP, I've played Backwater Blade, I've played in the old Azura's Campaign, I did the whole no CP week, I've play Battlegrounds right now with no CP, and I've played well in all of these environments. I don't need people to hold my hand telling me what sets to run, I don't need CPs as a "crutch" to beat other players, I don't need to be told what builds work and which ones do not. I can compete just fine in a no CP environment. I just don't prefer it.
The game, the gear, the proc sets, the siege, the poisons, resource management, the block costs, dodge roll scaling, the damage, Battle Spirit, etc., all of this was and is designed with the Champion System in mind. Simply taking away the Champion System and not adjusting everything else is going to throw things out of whack. That is why I sit in queues and why I simply stop doing BGs after a death recap full of Viper, Red Mountain, Oblivion damage, and Tremorscale.
It's funny that's what my cp pvp death recaps look like as well. I actually think cp pvp has alot more problems than non cp which is why i spend most of my time in battle grounds. Cyrodill in cp campaigns still has to many problems. It's mainly survivability cp makes some classes and builds way too survivalble. No cp you are punished for your mistakes. So of course players will gravitate towards more forgiving pvp and want to play with cp
I fail to see exactly what "mistake" I made not being able to survive 20K invisible and unavoidable damage in a matter of a few seconds.
I'm being punished for playing in a system that allows damage designed to be scaled with the Champion system in mind to hit me with no Champion System and that stats that accompany it, not because of my perceived lack of skill.
I'm also getting real tired of people saying i gravitate toward what they think is easy mode PvP. People are entitled to their opinions, but I don't make incorrect and disparaging assumptions as to why they hold those opinions.
I'm not perceiving you have a lack of skill because you like cp pvp. i play in a cp campaign myself, but i also recognize how easy it is to survive in a cp campaign. Overall people usually take the easy way out which is Why proc sets are every where and the cp campaigns have ques of 150. You will also take 20k invisible damage in cp pvp people still are being ganked in cp pvp as well. I personally try to run builds that can't be ganked. In both cp and no cp i run builds with good sustain and survivability and i get my burst from combos.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.
Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)
Smaller groups and solo players in general perform better in CP campaigns.
NonCP has less dmg in relation to HP pool compared to CP - that makes fights last longer (excluding procctatoes). Longer fights mean a higher chance for adds.
Less dmg also means scoring kills while outnumbered with lots of heals flying around is harder in nonCP.
In general nonCP favors medium to large organised groups (8+ players) over anything else unless you´re really into clicking leftmouse every few secs.
I actually find solo play more enjoyable. In no cp because players actually die. What I'm noticing is players aren't good at managing resources and they spam abilities when they are being pressured. Those players are a huge problem in cp campaigns but drop really fast in no cp
@thankyourat honestly how do you still claim there would be a significant difference in sustain for CP and nonCP pvp? The difference is literally 15% rec bonus at best. I´m literally not changing even one glyph when changing between cyroCP and battlegrounds (and battlegrounds are far mor resource intensive than 1v1 or open world encounters).
I find soloplay absolutely unbearable in nonCP pvp against competent players. The trashplayers die regardless of campaign they´re in.
In nonCP pvp someone with a proper template does not run out of resources. While at the same time dmg to hp is vastly in favor of HP (as in i loose 15% hp but 45% dmg in nonCP without switching gear).
I could go into detail about that being more of a problem for burst classes than it is for sustained/dot pressure but i´d like to have my question answered first.
It's more than just recovery your increased damage mitigation and bigger secondary resource pool also make it easy to sustain in a cp campaign. Like for instance i have never fought a mag sorc or magplar in no cp that i couldn't run out of stamina. In cp campaigns however i fought mag sorcs that can break free for days. This is why i find solo play in cp campains annoying at times builds (especially magicka builds) are just holding block or spamming shields until help arrives. In no cp every fight i know i can kill my opponent of he makes a mistake in cp however I've had fights against players that i know i can kill even though I'm clearly that more skilled player. The more survivalble players are the less likely you are to finish off a 1vX. Solo play sucks against competent opponents in both cp and no cp not seeing much of a difference there.0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭While I personally find non-CP fun, I can see why most people don't. First reason being: why the hell did you spend all that time getting champion points when you can't even use them. And obviously proc sets.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »The more survivalble players are the less likely you are to finish off a 1vX. Solo play sucks against competent opponents in both cp and no cp not seeing much of a difference there.
Well that´s what i´m saying. `
Players are less survivable on CP campaigns because in relation to HP spike dmg is higher on CP enabled campaigns...
Unless you play proccs - but i don´t think you´re running a proccbuild and come here telling me you prefer the gamemode where proccs are op or do you?IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »While I personally find non-CP fun, I can see why most people don't. First reason being: why the hell did you spend all that time getting champion points when you can't even use them. And obviously proc sets.
Proccsets.
Shields that have been balanced around CP inflated stats.
Surge being balanced around CP crit.
Critdmg/shadowmundus only having relevance in CP builds.
Poisons being balanced around CP (no i don´t mean resource poisons).Edited by Derra on July 4, 2017 2:08PM<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.
Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)
That sounds very unscientific and dubious.
Most of the AP generated does not come from capturing resources, but killing enemy players in high traffic areas.
People play the game to have fun. Those of us who sit in 100+ queues on the weekend aren't doing so because it's easier to kill resource guards, it's because we have a better time in CP campaign than in non.
Really? You enjoy sitting in a 100+q and than fighting the lag monster?
I enjoy not having to wait and having a smooth gaming experience.
FYI, 2 hours ago 5at sotha sil 50 DC and 50 AD just battled it out at roe with *gasp* no lag! It was a lot of fun.
More people really should give no cp a chance. Performance is better and it's populated. There are builds that work people just need to adapt.
I don't enjoy sitting in a que that is unnecessarily long because of ZoS's inability to gauge or even ask what it's community prefers. But it's not like I'm twiddling my thumbs. There are other things I can do with my time, I usually read. So the queue, while an unnecessary inconvenience, isn't going to drive me to do something I'd rather not play.
Smooth game performance is not the only reason I play videogames or even this one, It's not like queing for Sotha Sil will put an end to endless load screens. And I'm getting tired of people every patch telling me I just "need to adapt." I'm not a noob. I've played this game long before there was CP, I've played Backwater Blade, I've played in the old Azura's Campaign, I did the whole no CP week, I've play Battlegrounds right now with no CP, and I've played well in all of these environments. I don't need people to hold my hand telling me what sets to run, I don't need CPs as a "crutch" to beat other players, I don't need to be told what builds work and which ones do not. I can compete just fine in a no CP environment. I just don't prefer it.
The game, the gear, the proc sets, the siege, the poisons, resource management, the block costs, dodge roll scaling, the damage, Battle Spirit, etc., all of this was and is designed with the Champion System in mind. Simply taking away the Champion System and not adjusting everything else is going to throw things out of whack. That is why I sit in queues and why I simply stop doing BGs after a death recap full of Viper, Red Mountain, Oblivion damage, and Tremorscale.
It's funny that's what my cp pvp death recaps look like as well. I actually think cp pvp has alot more problems than non cp which is why i spend most of my time in battle grounds. Cyrodill in cp campaigns still has to many problems. It's mainly survivability cp makes some classes and builds way too survivalble. No cp you are punished for your mistakes. So of course players will gravitate towards more forgiving pvp and want to play with cp
I fail to see exactly what "mistake" I made not being able to survive 20K invisible and unavoidable damage in a matter of a few seconds.
I'm being punished for playing in a system that allows damage designed to be scaled with the Champion system in mind to hit me with no Champion System and that stats that accompany it, not because of my perceived lack of skill.
I'm also getting real tired of people saying i gravitate toward what they think is easy mode PvP. People are entitled to their opinions, but I don't make incorrect and disparaging assumptions as to why they hold those opinions.
I'm not perceiving you have a lack of skill because you like cp pvp. i play in a cp campaign myself, but i also recognize how easy it is to survive in a cp campaign. Overall people usually take the easy way out which is Why proc sets are every where and the cp campaigns have ques of 150. You will also take 20k invisible damage in cp pvp people still are being ganked in cp pvp as well. I personally try to run builds that can't be ganked. In both cp and no cp i run builds with good sustain and survivability and i get my burst from combos.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.
Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)
Smaller groups and solo players in general perform better in CP campaigns.
NonCP has less dmg in relation to HP pool compared to CP - that makes fights last longer (excluding procctatoes). Longer fights mean a higher chance for adds.
Less dmg also means scoring kills while outnumbered with lots of heals flying around is harder in nonCP.
In general nonCP favors medium to large organised groups (8+ players) over anything else unless you´re really into clicking leftmouse every few secs.
I actually find solo play more enjoyable. In no cp because players actually die. What I'm noticing is players aren't good at managing resources and they spam abilities when they are being pressured. Those players are a huge problem in cp campaigns but drop really fast in no cp
@thankyourat honestly how do you still claim there would be a significant difference in sustain for CP and nonCP pvp? The difference is literally 15% rec bonus at best. I´m literally not changing even one glyph when changing between cyroCP and battlegrounds (and battlegrounds are far mor resource intensive than 1v1 or open world encounters).
I find soloplay absolutely unbearable in nonCP pvp against competent players. The trashplayers die regardless of campaign they´re in.
In nonCP pvp someone with a proper template does not run out of resources. While at the same time dmg to hp is vastly in favor of HP (as in i loose 15% hp but 45% dmg in nonCP without switching gear).
I could go into detail about that being more of a problem for burst classes than it is for sustained/dot pressure but i´d like to have my question answered first.
It's more than just recovery your increased damage mitigation and bigger secondary resource pool also make it easy to sustain in a cp campaign. Like for instance i have never fought a mag sorc or magplar in no cp that i couldn't run out of stamina. In cp campaigns however i fought mag sorcs that can break free for days. This is why i find solo play in cp campains annoying at times builds (especially magicka builds) are just holding block or spamming shields until help arrives. In no cp every fight i know i can kill my opponent of he makes a mistake in cp however I've had fights against players that i know i can kill even though I'm clearly that more skilled player. The more survivalble players are the less likely you are to finish off a 1vX. Solo play sucks against competent opponents in both cp and no cp not seeing much of a difference there.
Never huh? This has more to do with the CP 75 opponents new to this game who have just graduated from Kyne than CP changes. No wonder why Fengrush and his merry band of 6 rack up 120+:1 kill to death ratios in No CP.
3 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭thankyourat wrote: »The more survivalble players are the less likely you are to finish off a 1vX. Solo play sucks against competent opponents in both cp and no cp not seeing much of a difference there.
Well that´s what i´m saying. `
Players are less survivable on CP campaigns because in relation to HP spike dmg is higher on CP enabled campaigns...
Unless you play proccs - but i don´t think you´re running a proccbuild and come here telling me you prefer the gamemode where proccs are op or do you?IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »While I personally find non-CP fun, I can see why most people don't. First reason being: why the hell did you spend all that time getting champion points when you can't even use them. And obviously proc sets.
Proccsets.
Shields that have been balanced around CP inflated stats.
Surge being balanced around CP crit.
Critdmg/shadowmundus only having relevance in CP builds.
Poisons being balanced around CP (no i don´t mean resource poisons).
I feel players are more survivalble on a cp campaign. Sustain is what makes players survivalble it doesn't matter how much resistances you have if you can't sustain you'll die. Also healing is so strong in cp campaigns its crazy. so yes even though you're damage is lower in no cp sustain is harder, healing is weaker and damage shields are weaker making players less survivalble. But as a solo player you are more survivalble if you build correctly because a player will have to line up a burst combo to kill you. Which leaves an aspect of counterplay that can sometimes not be there in cp. (and no cp as well if you are facing multiple players with poisons and proc sets.) I do use valkyn skoria on my magblade but ive been using it since thieves guild dlc. I wont deny it's streagths in no cp.0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Herd mentality. There's a lot of people who need the crutch and the rest follow them in.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]3 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »GrumpyDuckling wrote: »After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.
Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)
That sounds very unscientific and dubious.
Most of the AP generated does not come from capturing resources, but killing enemy players in high traffic areas.
People play the game to have fun. Those of us who sit in 100+ queues on the weekend aren't doing so because it's easier to kill resource guards, it's because we have a better time in CP campaign than in non.
Really? You enjoy sitting in a 100+q and than fighting the lag monster?
I enjoy not having to wait and having a smooth gaming experience.
FYI, 2 hours ago 5at sotha sil 50 DC and 50 AD just battled it out at roe with *gasp* no lag! It was a lot of fun.
More people really should give no cp a chance. Performance is better and it's populated. There are builds that work people just need to adapt.
I don't enjoy sitting in a que that is unnecessarily long because of ZoS's inability to gauge or even ask what it's community prefers. But it's not like I'm twiddling my thumbs. There are other things I can do with my time, I usually read. So the queue, while an unnecessary inconvenience, isn't going to drive me to do something I'd rather not play.
Smooth game performance is not the only reason I play videogames or even this one, It's not like queing for Sotha Sil will put an end to endless load screens. And I'm getting tired of people every patch telling me I just "need to adapt." I'm not a noob. I've played this game long before there was CP, I've played Backwater Blade, I've played in the old Azura's Campaign, I did the whole no CP week, I've play Battlegrounds right now with no CP, and I've played well in all of these environments. I don't need people to hold my hand telling me what sets to run, I don't need CPs as a "crutch" to beat other players, I don't need to be told what builds work and which ones do not. I can compete just fine in a no CP environment. I just don't prefer it.
The game, the gear, the proc sets, the siege, the poisons, resource management, the block costs, dodge roll scaling, the damage, Battle Spirit, etc., all of this was and is designed with the Champion System in mind. Simply taking away the Champion System and not adjusting everything else is going to throw things out of whack. That is why I sit in queues and why I simply stop doing BGs after a death recap full of Viper, Red Mountain, Oblivion damage, and Tremorscale.
It's funny that's what my cp pvp death recaps look like as well. I actually think cp pvp has alot more problems than non cp which is why i spend most of my time in battle grounds. Cyrodill in cp campaigns still has to many problems. It's mainly survivability cp makes some classes and builds way too survivalble. No cp you are punished for your mistakes. So of course players will gravitate towards more forgiving pvp and want to play with cp
I fail to see exactly what "mistake" I made not being able to survive 20K invisible and unavoidable damage in a matter of a few seconds.
I'm being punished for playing in a system that allows damage designed to be scaled with the Champion system in mind to hit me with no Champion System and that stats that accompany it, not because of my perceived lack of skill.
I'm also getting real tired of people saying i gravitate toward what they think is easy mode PvP. People are entitled to their opinions, but I don't make incorrect and disparaging assumptions as to why they hold those opinions.
I'm not perceiving you have a lack of skill because you like cp pvp. i play in a cp campaign myself, but i also recognize how easy it is to survive in a cp campaign. Overall people usually take the easy way out which is Why proc sets are every where and the cp campaigns have ques of 150. You will also take 20k invisible damage in cp pvp people still are being ganked in cp pvp as well. I personally try to run builds that can't be ganked. In both cp and no cp i run builds with good sustain and survivability and i get my burst from combos.GrumpyDuckling wrote: »After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.
Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)
Smaller groups and solo players in general perform better in CP campaigns.
NonCP has less dmg in relation to HP pool compared to CP - that makes fights last longer (excluding procctatoes). Longer fights mean a higher chance for adds.
Less dmg also means scoring kills while outnumbered with lots of heals flying around is harder in nonCP.
In general nonCP favors medium to large organised groups (8+ players) over anything else unless you´re really into clicking leftmouse every few secs.
I actually find solo play more enjoyable. In no cp because players actually die. What I'm noticing is players aren't good at managing resources and they spam abilities when they are being pressured. Those players are a huge problem in cp campaigns but drop really fast in no cp
@thankyourat honestly how do you still claim there would be a significant difference in sustain for CP and nonCP pvp? The difference is literally 15% rec bonus at best. I´m literally not changing even one glyph when changing between cyroCP and battlegrounds (and battlegrounds are far mor resource intensive than 1v1 or open world encounters).
I find solo play absolutely unbearable in nonCP pvp against competent players. The trashplayers die regardless of campaign they´re in.
In nonCP pvp someone with a proper template does not run out of resources. While at the same time dmg to hp is vastly in favor of HP (as in i loose 15% hp but 45% dmg in nonCP without switching gear).
I could go into detail about that being more of a problem for burst classes than it is for sustained/dot pressure but i´d like to have my question answered first.
It's more than just recovery your increased damage mitigation and bigger secondary resource pool also make it easy to sustain in a cp campaign. Like for instance i have never fought a mag sorc or magplar in no cp that i couldn't run out of stamina. In cp campaigns however i fought mag sorcs that can break free for days. This is why i find solo play in cp campains annoying at times builds (especially magicka builds) are just holding block or spamming shields until help arrives. In no cp every fight i know i can kill my opponent of he makes a mistake in cp however I've had fights against players that i know i can kill even though I'm clearly that more skilled player. The more survivalble players are the less likely you are to finish off a 1vX. Solo play sucks against competent opponents in both cp and no cp not seeing much of a difference there.
Never huh? This has more to do with the CP 75 opponents new to this game who have just graduated from Kyne than CP changes. No wonder why Fengrush and his merry band of 6 rack up 120+:1 kill to death ratios in No CP.
But the cp 75 opponents mostly play in the cp campaign and honesty if you are that low cp you don't stand much of any chance to win in a cp campaign. The only reason i prefer no cp/battle grounds is that in a cp campaign players just put up block until you get zerged down thats not a valid tactic in no cp especially if you are a magicka build you'll run out of stamina so fast. Than one cc and you are dead.0 -
NightbladeMechanics✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »The district flag guards in No CP version of Imperial City are RIDICULOUSLY hard to kill for magicka players. They chain cast unbreakable Eclipses and Negates while healing themselves to full... I have to choose my ultimate differently just to deal with No CP guards, which makes my build weaker against actual players.
I slot Veil for overland resources these days. Haven't used that spell in a while. LolKena
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »The more survivalble players are the less likely you are to finish off a 1vX. Solo play sucks against competent opponents in both cp and no cp not seeing much of a difference there.
Well that´s what i´m saying. `
Players are less survivable on CP campaigns because in relation to HP spike dmg is higher on CP enabled campaigns...
Unless you play proccs - but i don´t think you´re running a proccbuild and come here telling me you prefer the gamemode where proccs are op or do you?IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »While I personally find non-CP fun, I can see why most people don't. First reason being: why the hell did you spend all that time getting champion points when you can't even use them. And obviously proc sets.
Proccsets.
Shields that have been balanced around CP inflated stats.
Surge being balanced around CP crit.
Critdmg/shadowmundus only having relevance in CP builds.
Poisons being balanced around CP (no i don´t mean resource poisons).
I feel players are more survivalble on a cp campaign. Sustain is what makes players survivalble it doesn't matter how much resistances you have if you can't sustain you'll die. Also healing is so strong in cp campaigns its crazy. so yes even though you're damage is lower in no cp sustain is harder, healing is weaker and damage shields are weaker making players less survivalble. But as a solo player you are more survivalble if you build correctly because a player will have to line up a burst combo to kill you. Which leaves an aspect of counterplay that can sometimes not be there in cp. (and no cp as well if you are facing multiple players with poisons and proc sets.) I do use valkyn skoria on my magblade but ive been using it since thieves guild dlc. I wont deny it's streagths in no cp.
Well there we have the reason why you prefer nonCP.
You play a sustained dps class with a burst proccset (my guess would have been skoria DK or templar bc magblades are so rare though).
The bolded part is btw exactly what i´m talking about. Killing players is harder in nonCP - unless you meet the unfortunate souls who just bought the game and have barely reached levelcap.
I can still fight two half decent proccblades in CP because i can outplay them and actually kill them in the small windows i have. NonCP needs more offensive time to score a kill - so fighting outnumbered becomes automatically harder.
Sustained dps shines in nonCP because bursting does not work anymore (dmg is too low).
Shields are flatout too weak in nonCP. They´re balanced for 20+++% inflated stat values - otherwise we would have never seen the 50% battlespirit decreases. Healing does not suffer the same issues shields do bc heals atleast scale with weapon/spelldmg - which does not get modified by cp.
I personally feel that if you meet a player that goes out of resources 1v1 they either have a template not suited for the situation they´re fighting in or they´re not as good as you or they thought they are.
I have never run out of resources in pure 1v1 situations without poisons.
Edit: Basically any sustained dps or procc setup prefers nonCP. Any setup not built around monstersets/proccs prefers CP because those rely on critdmg CP / shadowmundus to create burst.
Edited by Derra on July 4, 2017 7:32PM<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭Herd mentality. There's a lot of people who need the crutch and the rest follow them in.
the "crutch" huh?. not much of a crutch when everyone has it.
more likely the fact is:
1. fights last longer in CP then in noncp
2. people can survive high burst ganks and recover/counter
3. players aren't as easy to kill in CP as they are in noncp (played there for a while, and that was the reason i didn't like it, stupidly easy to get kills and the fights weren't very engaging)Invictus0 -
leeux✭✭✭✭✭My main reason for not playing no-CP, despite liking it a lot in the past, is that no-CP campaigns are a desert wasteland where there's no real *balanced* alliance war activity... it was always like that, and it doesn't seem to have changed.
When there's war activity and objectives being taken is normally a guild in numbers that is trying to crown emp and there's nothing a small band of solo players can do to stop that or defend.
Even in the CP campaign at the hours I play it's very difficult to find any war activity activity outside the annoying bridge battles and the zombie masses that roams the forest between Nikel and Ash, and generally fight at the gate... I imagine that atm no-CP must be worse, at least it was before Morrowind patch when there was only one no-CP campaign.
Azura Star had a golden age and it was fun playing there while it lasted... sadly, most of the players that made that great seem to have left the game or can't bother anymore waiting there for others to show up and went to CP.
Edited by leeux on July 4, 2017 8:04PMPC/NA - Proud old member of the Antique Ordinatus Populus
My charsLiana Amnell (AD mSorc L50+, ex EP) =x= Lehnnan Klennett (AD mTemplar L50+ Healer/Support ) =x= Ethim Amnell (AD mDK L50+, ex DC)Leinwyn Valaene (AD mSorc L50+) =x= Levus Artorias (AD mDK-for-now L50+) =x= Madril Ulessen (AD mNB L50+) =x= Lyra Amnis (AD not-Stamplar-yet L50+)I only PvP on AD chars
~~ «And blossoms anew beneath tomorrow's sun >>»
~~ «I am forever swimming around, amidst this ocean world we call home... >>»
~~ "Let strength be granted so the world might be mended... so the world might be mended."
~~ "Slash the silver chain that binds thee to life"
~~ Our cries will shrill, the air will moan and crash into the dawn. >>
~~ The sands of time were eroded by the river of constant change >>
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Joy_Division wrote: »Comfortably_Buzzed wrote: »You could be right about the AP but the flip side is that once you or your small group takes a resource, it's much easier to farm AP since the strong guards make holding the resource easier.
It seems like there is a lot of disagreement over whether CP or no CP is better. Honestly I doubt there's any way to really determine the correct answer to this debate. Consider the following points that (hopefully) we can all agree on:
5) No CP less forgiving on players for mistakes made
All five points are objectively true
That's an opinion, not an objective truth.
Did you read at all after that? I literally said except possibly for number five.0