#1 Reason CP Campaigns are More Populated than Non-CP?

GrumpyDuckling

After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.

Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)

Emma_Overload

The district flag guards in No CP version of Imperial City are RIDICULOUSLY hard to kill for magicka players. They chain cast unbreakable Eclipses and Negates while healing themselves to full... I have to choose my ultimate differently just to deal with No CP guards, which makes my build weaker against actual players.

Publius_Scipio

Because players (in general) can be whining fickle bull[snip] artists. And they complained up and down, side to side, disparaging remarks hurled at ZOS. CP "killed ESO", CP "must go", ZOS "doesn't know what they are doing", etc etc etc etc. Then ZOS gives these players what they want, and now everyone is crammed into the single CP enabled campaign.

A lot of these "great" players everyone crows about simply don't perform the same when their build isn't tapped into CP. And that's a fact. Everyone loves as much regen as possible and as much punching power as can be slapped on top of the rest of the cake. But there isn't much of a difference when you take CP away in reality. Because you take CP away and you move the goal posts, but you also move the goal posts for the "less skilled" in doing so. Quite frankly, the truth is that ESO with it's two small skill bars, brawler type of PvP with RNG and procs, 90% of what is needed is the right gear setup for your class. The last 10% you need to learn a small rotation, learn what the other classes do in their small rotations, go out there and fly on autopilot in most 1v1s.

https://youtu.be/txA7D-bKOuU

KILLING4ALIVING

The reason I prefer CP over non-CP is that CP takes more ability to kill other players, in my opinion. In non-CP it is just all about who can deal the most damage the fastest, which is usually the person with twhos proc sets proc first or the pertson who has the most proc sets, it has nothing to do with resources or ability. In CP people have more resources, so it is a dps and resource battle and it usually leads to some good fights where you actually have to out play the other player, rather than depending on proc sets. Not that there isn't proc builds in CP too, but unless you are ganker running a one shot proc stacking Incap/poison injection build, you are not going to be able to kill decent player in 1-2 hits and are still going to have to fight and can still get outplayed. I am sure non-CP PVPers will say pretty much the opposite but that is the way it seems from my POV.

svartorn

Well I personally feel like I worked hard for my CP and CP seem to be the only progression in the game, so why not play there?

Ghettokid

It's simple. People follow Orc.
Orc plays CP campaign=everyone plays CP campaign. No man should have all that power, but Orc ain't no ordinary man.

Drummerx04

KILLING4ALIVING wrote: »

The reason I prefer CP over non-CP is that CP takes more ability to kill other players, in my opinion. In non-CP it is just all about who can deal the most damage the fastest, which is usually the person with twhos proc sets proc first or the pertson who has the most proc sets, it has nothing to do with resources or ability. In CP people have more resources, so it is a dps and resource battle and it usually leads to some good fights where you actually have to out play the other player, rather than depending on proc sets. Not that there isn't proc builds in CP too, but unless you are ganker running a one shot proc stacking Incap/poison injection build, you are not going to be able to kill decent player in 1-2 hits and are still going to have to fight and can still get outplayed. I am sure non-CP PVPers will say pretty much the opposite but that is the way it seems from my POV.

Siege is also disgusting in noCP

fastolfv_ESO

simple no cp is basically designed for every kiddy to play a nb kill someone without cp resists faster than you can react and jump up and down squealing about how great they are. Every person and every streamer out there defending no cp is maining a nb, coincidence?

WuffyCerulei

CP requires more than people to throw a few proc sets and go to town on everyone. Now that infinite sustaina and unkilliable players seems to be a thing of the past, it's more intense and requires skill.
The only non-CP campaign I'm alright with is Kyne, since it allows for newer players to learn pvp whilst not getting their butts handed to them.

Drummerx04

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

CP requires more than people to throw a few proc sets and go to town on everyone. Now that infinite sustaina and unkilliable players seems to be a thing of the past, it's more intense and requires skill.
The only non-CP campaign I'm alright with is Kyne, since it allows for newer players to learn pvp whilst not getting their butts handed to them.

Assuming Kyne is the new BWB, there are actually guilds that main those campaigns too. They reroll new characters whenever one reaches lvl 50, so they still effectively have very experienced players running against total noobs.

Rohamad_Ali

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Because players (in general) can be whining fickle bull[snip] artists. And they complained up and down, side to side, disparaging remarks hurled at ZOS. CP "killed ESO", CP "must go", ZOS "doesn't know what they are doing", etc etc etc etc. Then ZOS gives these players what they want, and now everyone is crammed into the single CP enabled campaign.

A lot of these "great" players everyone crows about simply don't perform the same when their build isn't tapped into CP. And that's a fact. Everyone loves as much regen as possible and as much punching power as can be slapped on top of the rest of the cake. But there isn't much of a difference when you take CP away in reality. Because you take CP away and you move the goal posts, but you also move the goal posts for the "less skilled" in doing so. Quite frankly, the truth is that ESO with it's two small skill bars, brawler type of PvP with RNG and procs, 90% of what is needed is the right gear setup for your class. The last 10% you need to learn a small rotation, learn what the other classes do in their small rotations, go out there and fly on autopilot in most 1v1s.

https://youtu.be/txA7D-bKOuU

I find the opposite to be true in no cp . I can thrown on vipers , salene or tremorscale and one button through entire groups solo . It was fun for all of 10 minutes . The same build in cp campaigns and it's not half as powerful and I have to pay attention and hit 9 buttons in a fight .

timidobserver

No to giving more AP for objectives and kills in no-cp. It would be like paying people to play no-cp.

Publius_Scipio

fastolfv_ESO wrote: »

simple no cp is basically designed for every kiddy to play a nb kill someone without cp resists faster than you can react and jump up and down squealing about how great they are. Every person and every streamer out there defending no cp is maining a nb, coincidence?

Or, also, every kiddy with 630 CP and a Miat NB clone build killing those in CP campaign.

TequilaFire

Drummerx04 wrote: »

KILLING4ALIVING wrote: »

The reason I prefer CP over non-CP is that CP takes more ability to kill other players, in my opinion. In non-CP it is just all about who can deal the most damage the fastest, which is usually the person with twhos proc sets proc first or the pertson who has the most proc sets, it has nothing to do with resources or ability. In CP people have more resources, so it is a dps and resource battle and it usually leads to some good fights where you actually have to out play the other player, rather than depending on proc sets. Not that there isn't proc builds in CP too, but unless you are ganker running a one shot proc stacking Incap/poison injection build, you are not going to be able to kill decent player in 1-2 hits and are still going to have to fight and can still get outplayed. I am sure non-CP PVPers will say pretty much the opposite but that is the way it seems from my POV.

Siege is also disgusting in noCP

No siege does what it is supposed to in noncp, you should not be able to dance in siege and not be killed.
You stand in red you die.
No more taunting in front of the keep! lol

Durham

People want use the progression they felt they have eraned... it's that simple.... No CP will always be a no go as long as there is a CP campaign... If you end CP we will lose about 25% more of our PVP population imo...

Joy_Division

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.

Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)

That sounds very unscientific and dubious.

Most of the AP generated does not come from capturing resources, but killing enemy players in high traffic areas.

People play the game to have fun. Those of us who sit in 100+ queues on the weekend aren't doing so because it's easier to kill resource guards, it's because we have a better time in CP campaign than in non.

Karm1cOne

I play in cp because it's the only campaign with fights 24/7. If noncp was hopping at 1pm, I'd be there.

disintegr8

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

CP requires more than people to throw a few proc sets and go to town on everyone. Now that infinite sustaina and unkilliable players seems to be a thing of the past, it's more intense and requires skill.
The only non-CP campaign I'm alright with is Kyne, since it allows for newer players to learn pvp whilst not getting their butts handed to them.

Not correct, Kyne is full of experienced players who keep rolling new characters, hence noobs will always get their butts handed to them. When you see a level 16 wearing BiS gear you know they are 'professional amateurs' - most people only worry about getting BiS gear once they level up.

My assumption is that some people don't want to let go of their sense of superiority by playing with the big boys and girls, but would rather stay here where they don't really feel challenged. Kind of like the sports team who win every game of the season but lose the grand final to prevent being promoted to a higher division.

LegacyDM

Joy_Division wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.

Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)

That sounds very unscientific and dubious.

Most of the AP generated does not come from capturing resources, but killing enemy players in high traffic areas.

People play the game to have fun. Those of us who sit in 100+ queues on the weekend aren't doing so because it's easier to kill resource guards, it's because we have a better time in CP campaign than in non.

Really? You enjoy sitting in a 100+q and than fighting the lag monster?

I enjoy not having to wait and having a smooth gaming experience.

FYI, 2 hours ago 5at sotha sil 50 DC and 50 AD just battled it out at roe with *gasp* no lag! It was a lot of fun.

More people really should give no cp a chance. Performance is better and it's populated. There are builds that work people just need to adapt.

Dr.NRG

Not true! The only reason why cp is more popular than no cp campaign is cp!!!
The reason for that is that with cp you can mitigate proc sets and poisons, and you are able to make more unique builds.

Joy_Division

LegacyDM wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.

Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)

That sounds very unscientific and dubious.

Most of the AP generated does not come from capturing resources, but killing enemy players in high traffic areas.

People play the game to have fun. Those of us who sit in 100+ queues on the weekend aren't doing so because it's easier to kill resource guards, it's because we have a better time in CP campaign than in non.

Really? You enjoy sitting in a 100+q and than fighting the lag monster?

I enjoy not having to wait and having a smooth gaming experience.

FYI, 2 hours ago 5at sotha sil 50 DC and 50 AD just battled it out at roe with *gasp* no lag! It was a lot of fun.

More people really should give no cp a chance. Performance is better and it's populated. There are builds that work people just need to adapt.

I don't enjoy sitting in a que that is unnecessarily long because of ZoS's inability to gauge or even ask what it's community prefers. But it's not like I'm twiddling my thumbs. There are other things I can do with my time, I usually read. So the queue, while an unnecessary inconvenience, isn't going to drive me to do something I'd rather not play.

Smooth game performance is not the only reason I play videogames or even this one, It's not like queing for Sotha Sil will put an end to endless load screens. And I'm getting tired of people every patch telling me I just "need to adapt." I'm not a noob. I've played this game long before there was CP, I've played Backwater Blade, I've played in the old Azura's Campaign, I did the whole no CP week, I've play Battlegrounds right now with no CP, and I've played well in all of these environments. I don't need people to hold my hand telling me what sets to run, I don't need CPs as a "crutch" to beat other players, I don't need to be told what builds work and which ones do not. I can compete just fine in a no CP environment. I just don't prefer it.

The game, the gear, the proc sets, the siege, the poisons, resource management, the block costs, dodge roll scaling, the damage, Battle Spirit, etc., all of this was and is designed with the Champion System in mind. Simply taking away the Champion System and not adjusting everything else is going to throw things out of whack. That is why I sit in queues and why I simply stop doing BGs after a death recap full of Viper, Red Mountain, Oblivion damage, and Tremorscale.

IxSTALKERxI

I don't get why people say no-cp takes more skill than cp. How is using gapcloser + proc sets + dawnbreaker from target to target before they react skillful? Being able to fight back after being jumped on and almost dieing to proc sets is more skillful, or engaging with targets you can't kill by simply crit charging them before they crit charge you.

Also I don't see what AP has to do with anything, I could probably make more AP in no cp than cp tbh. I actually dislike the o'ticks in general and I think their values should be halved. Proc set meta is what i dislike about no cp. Morrowind patch made no CP worse and cp better balance wise imo.

Yeh I've played non vet for a couple of cycles in the past which was an interesting experience but I dunno how people can just play there forever it gets pretty boring.

zyk

I think the only reason ZOS made the decision to favor No CP is because they hoped Battlegrounds would be good enough to lure back PVP-focused players that weren't interested in the CP grind. It wasn't. It feels like it was designed in the 90s.

I hope that the failure of Battlegrounds forces ZOS to radically reconsider its approach to PVP. I think the issues may go beyond implementation and budget. I think we need a fresh, passionate vision for PVP from new leadership.

Nermy

svartorn wrote: »

Well I personally feel like I worked hard for my CP and CP seem to be the only progression in the game, so why not play there?

A lot of people feel this way. I also feel it rounds out my character. Helps me adapt the build where the sets are lacking.

TequilaFire

disintegr8 wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

CP requires more than people to throw a few proc sets and go to town on everyone. Now that infinite sustaina and unkilliable players seems to be a thing of the past, it's more intense and requires skill.
The only non-CP campaign I'm alright with is Kyne, since it allows for newer players to learn pvp whilst not getting their butts handed to them.

Not correct, Kyne is full of experienced players who keep rolling new characters, hence noobs will always get their butts handed to them. When you see a level 16 wearing BiS gear you know they are 'professional amateurs' - most people only worry about getting BiS gear once they level up.

My assumption is that some people don't want to let go of their sense of superiority by playing with the big boys and girls, but would rather stay here where they don't really feel challenged. Kind of like the sports team who win every game of the season but lose the grand final to prevent being promoted to a higher division.

Really? My level 20 BiS gear disagrees with you! lol

thankyourat

Joy_Division wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.

Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)

That sounds very unscientific and dubious.

Most of the AP generated does not come from capturing resources, but killing enemy players in high traffic areas.

People play the game to have fun. Those of us who sit in 100+ queues on the weekend aren't doing so because it's easier to kill resource guards, it's because we have a better time in CP campaign than in non.

Really? You enjoy sitting in a 100+q and than fighting the lag monster?

I enjoy not having to wait and having a smooth gaming experience.

FYI, 2 hours ago 5at sotha sil 50 DC and 50 AD just battled it out at roe with *gasp* no lag! It was a lot of fun.

More people really should give no cp a chance. Performance is better and it's populated. There are builds that work people just need to adapt.

I don't enjoy sitting in a que that is unnecessarily long because of ZoS's inability to gauge or even ask what it's community prefers. But it's not like I'm twiddling my thumbs. There are other things I can do with my time, I usually read. So the queue, while an unnecessary inconvenience, isn't going to drive me to do something I'd rather not play.

Smooth game performance is not the only reason I play videogames or even this one, It's not like queing for Sotha Sil will put an end to endless load screens. And I'm getting tired of people every patch telling me I just "need to adapt." I'm not a noob. I've played this game long before there was CP, I've played Backwater Blade, I've played in the old Azura's Campaign, I did the whole no CP week, I've play Battlegrounds right now with no CP, and I've played well in all of these environments. I don't need people to hold my hand telling me what sets to run, I don't need CPs as a "crutch" to beat other players, I don't need to be told what builds work and which ones do not. I can compete just fine in a no CP environment. I just don't prefer it.

The game, the gear, the proc sets, the siege, the poisons, resource management, the block costs, dodge roll scaling, the damage, Battle Spirit, etc., all of this was and is designed with the Champion System in mind. Simply taking away the Champion System and not adjusting everything else is going to throw things out of whack. That is why I sit in queues and why I simply stop doing BGs after a death recap full of Viper, Red Mountain, Oblivion damage, and Tremorscale.

It's funny that's what my cp pvp death recaps look like as well. I actually think cp pvp has alot more problems than non cp which is why i spend most of my time in battle grounds. Cyrodill in cp campaigns still has to many problems. It's mainly survivability cp makes some classes and builds way too survivalble. No cp you are punished for your mistakes. So of course players will gravitate towards more forgiving pvp and want to play with cp

Jamini

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

I don't get why people say no-cp takes more skill than cp. How is using gapcloser + proc sets + dawnbreaker from target to target before they react skillful? Being able to fight back after being jumped on and almost dieing to proc sets is more skillful, or engaging with targets you can't kill by simply crit charging them before they crit charge you.

Ah, I see you must play no-CP PvP very often to have such a nuanced and well-thought view. You clearly aren't spewing things that you have no clue about based on battlegrounds fights where Proc sets do over-perform. Clearly you must have tried some defensive sets/builds and tried them against those sets and come to the conclusion that even though a tanky build can not only survive three full proc rotations, but burst back through your standard proctard due to their fragility, procs are still so strong that they are unbeatable overall.

Magıc

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Because players (in general) can be whining fickle bull[snip] artists. And they complained up and down, side to side, disparaging remarks hurled at ZOS. CP "killed ESO", CP "must go", ZOS "doesn't know what they are doing", etc etc etc etc. Then ZOS gives these players what they want, and now everyone is crammed into the single CP enabled campaign.

A lot of these "great" players everyone crows about simply don't perform the same when their build isn't tapped into CP. And that's a fact. Everyone loves as much regen as possible and as much punching power as can be slapped on top of the rest of the cake. But there isn't much of a difference when you take CP away in reality. Because you take CP away and you move the goal posts, but you also move the goal posts for the "less skilled" in doing so. Quite frankly, the truth is that ESO with it's two small skill bars, brawler type of PvP with RNG and procs, 90% of what is needed is the right gear setup for your class. The last 10% you need to learn a small rotation, learn what the other classes do in their small rotations, go out there and fly on autopilot in most 1v1s.

https://youtu.be/txA7D-bKOuU

Maybe, just maybe, it's more a case of, THE WHOLE GAME is balanced around CP that playing non CP, no matter what the build, is stupid, because sets, mobs, everything is balanced around CP.

So many people said it, yes CP was a problem but getting rid of CP and thinking that fixes the problem is wrong. PvE AND PvP are balanced around CP, which makes playing non CP less fun. A lot of the players who complain about CP played before CP was introduced and were just as good as they are today. But that was an entirely different game than todays.

Emothic

The only reason why CP campaigns are always so populated is because for the simple fact that ZoS is too lazy to balance their Combat mechanics in the game. They have specificly said that they were going ot make the Majority of campaigns Non-CP because Battlegrounds was going to be Non-PvP. That's the only reason why, they knew that they would have to rebalance PvP or CP system for Battlegrounds and like they always do they take the laziest way they can out.

IxSTALKERxI

The point I was trying to make is with CP enabled it's easier to recover and fight back, whereas on no-cp it feels like whoever hits first wins as the pressure from procs is too much and too resource efficient. I don't run proc sets myself, and no I havn't spent a long time in no-cp, but long enough to know that proc sets in no-cp are a pretty stupid meta.

Joy_Division

thankyourat wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

After asking around in an informal and unscientific way, the most common reason appears to be that Alliance Points are easier and faster to get in CP campaigns compared to Non-CP campaigns. In CP campaigns smaller groups can capture resources and keeps more easily and quicker because it is easier to kill NPC guards.

Perhaps these potential solutions could be considered and might even out numbers between CP and Non-CP campaigns:
- tone down guards in Non-CP campaigns
- give slightly more Alliance Points for objectives and kills in Non-CP
- tone down the heaviest hitting proc sets due to strength in Non-CP (was #2 reason in my informal and unscientific poll)

That sounds very unscientific and dubious.

Most of the AP generated does not come from capturing resources, but killing enemy players in high traffic areas.

People play the game to have fun. Those of us who sit in 100+ queues on the weekend aren't doing so because it's easier to kill resource guards, it's because we have a better time in CP campaign than in non.

Really? You enjoy sitting in a 100+q and than fighting the lag monster?

I enjoy not having to wait and having a smooth gaming experience.

FYI, 2 hours ago 5at sotha sil 50 DC and 50 AD just battled it out at roe with *gasp* no lag! It was a lot of fun.

More people really should give no cp a chance. Performance is better and it's populated. There are builds that work people just need to adapt.

I don't enjoy sitting in a que that is unnecessarily long because of ZoS's inability to gauge or even ask what it's community prefers. But it's not like I'm twiddling my thumbs. There are other things I can do with my time, I usually read. So the queue, while an unnecessary inconvenience, isn't going to drive me to do something I'd rather not play.

Smooth game performance is not the only reason I play videogames or even this one, It's not like queing for Sotha Sil will put an end to endless load screens. And I'm getting tired of people every patch telling me I just "need to adapt." I'm not a noob. I've played this game long before there was CP, I've played Backwater Blade, I've played in the old Azura's Campaign, I did the whole no CP week, I've play Battlegrounds right now with no CP, and I've played well in all of these environments. I don't need people to hold my hand telling me what sets to run, I don't need CPs as a "crutch" to beat other players, I don't need to be told what builds work and which ones do not. I can compete just fine in a no CP environment. I just don't prefer it.

The game, the gear, the proc sets, the siege, the poisons, resource management, the block costs, dodge roll scaling, the damage, Battle Spirit, etc., all of this was and is designed with the Champion System in mind. Simply taking away the Champion System and not adjusting everything else is going to throw things out of whack. That is why I sit in queues and why I simply stop doing BGs after a death recap full of Viper, Red Mountain, Oblivion damage, and Tremorscale.

It's funny that's what my cp pvp death recaps look like as well. I actually think cp pvp has alot more problems than non cp which is why i spend most of my time in battle grounds. Cyrodill in cp campaigns still has to many problems. It's mainly survivability cp makes some classes and builds way too survivalble. No cp you are punished for your mistakes. So of course players will gravitate towards more forgiving pvp and want to play with cp

I fail to see exactly what "mistake" I made not being able to survive 20K invisible and unavoidable damage in a matter of a few seconds.

I'm being punished for playing in a system that allows damage designed to be scaled with the Champion system in mind to hit me with no Champion System and that stats that accompany it, not because of my perceived lack of skill.

I'm also getting real tired of people saying i gravitate toward what they think is easy mode PvP. People are entitled to their opinions, but I don't make incorrect and disparaging assumptions as to why they hold those opinions.