(Attn. ZOS) "No, don't bother. You'll just outlevel your gear. Grind to CP160."

GrumpyDuckling

This phrase, or some variation of it, is one of the more common phrases I hear vet players say to new players who are inquiring about gear - and those vet players aren't wrong.

ZOS, please recognize that your current gear system, which doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under CP160, discourages new players from enjoying an essential aspect of this game, permanently useful gear collection, until after CP160 is attained. On ESO Live you always talk about making the game more intuitive and welcoming for new players. Please start here.

Solutions:
- Allow items to be improved to CP160 via crafting
- Remove gear levels

Edit: Typo

phaneub17_ESO

I've suggested before they should let players wear 160cp gear no matter what level and it would just scale with your character's level/Max CP. While wearing 160cp gear if your character is level 35 then the items will have level 35 stats, if your character is 30cp then it would have the same stats as 30cp gear.

Rohamad_Ali

Stop posting good ideas , those just get ignored .

GrumpyDuckling

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I've suggested before they should let players wear 160cp gear no matter what level and it would just scale with your character's level/Max CP. While wearing 160cp gear if your character is level 35 then the items will have level 35 stats, if your character is 30cp then it would have the same stats as 30cp gear.

That's a cool idea. We know they have the coding potential for something like that (battle spirit).

timidobserver

They should make gear with undesirable traits scale with level.

GrumpyDuckling

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Stop posting good ideas , those just get ignored .

Haha I'm hoping the "Attn. ZOS" might help.

Shadzilla

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This phrase, or some variation of it, is one of the more common phrases I hear vet players say to new players who are inquiring about gear - and those vet players aren't wrong.

ZOS, please recognize that your current gear system, which doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under CP160, discourages new players from enjoying an essential aspect of this game, permanently useful gear collection, until after CP160 is attained. On ESO Live you always talk about making the game more intuitive and welcoming for new players. Please start here.

Solutions:
- Allow items to be improved to CP160 via crafating
- Remove gear levels

Not sure what crafating is. Also, are you kidding me? These two ideas are ridiculous. Gear grinding is a massive part of endgame, and very rewarding once you acquire what you are looking for. 80% of the population would have best in slot gear before they even hit max cap. I don't wanna see level 20's running around with BIS vma weapons/trial gear that they got farming normals with pugs.

Onefrkncrzypope

I have always enjoyed crafted sets when leveling a new character. Why would you want to grind at lvl 10 for bsw. Questing and learning the new class is more important than grinding level and gear. That seems horrible to me.

GrumpyDuckling

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This phrase, or some variation of it, is one of the more common phrases I hear vet players say to new players who are inquiring about gear - and those vet players aren't wrong.

ZOS, please recognize that your current gear system, which doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under CP160, discourages new players from enjoying an essential aspect of this game, permanently useful gear collection, until after CP160 is attained. On ESO Live you always talk about making the game more intuitive and welcoming for new players. Please start here.

Solutions:
- Allow items to be improved to CP160 via crafating
- Remove gear levels

Not sure what crafating is. Also, are you kidding me? These two ideas are ridiculous. Gear grinding is a massive part of endgame, and very rewarding once you acquire what you are looking for. 80% of the population would have best in slot gear before they even hit max cap. I don't wanna see level 20's running around with BIS vma weapons/trial gear that they got farming normals with pugs.

1) Thanks for catching my typo. I'll edit.
2) Why can't we make gear grinding a massive part of all game, instead just end game?
3) If a player can land VMA weapons at level 20, power to them.

GrumpyDuckling

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

I have always enjoyed crafted sets when leveling a new character. Why would you want to grind at lvl 10 for bsw. Questing and learning the new class is more important than grinding level and gear. That seems horrible to me.

Questing has the same problem. Any meaningful quest rewards you get will soon get out leveled.

Yakidafi

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

I have always enjoyed crafted sets when leveling a new character. Why would you want to grind at lvl 10 for bsw. Questing and learning the new class is more important than grinding level and gear. That seems horrible to me.

Questing has the same problem. Any meaningful quest rewards you get will soon get out leveled.

Meaningful quest reward?

Alpheu5

Ever since One Tamriel, levels have basically become nothing more than a roadblock for anybody with CP 160 alts. A level 10 wearing all level 10 purple gear is scaled to CP 160 wearing all CP 160 purple gear, and continuing to wear that gear just makes your character progressively weaker and more vulnerable, even as your abilities get stronger.

The first solution would let newer players keep using their old gear, but in reality if they're truly new then their gear choices probably aren't the best to begin with. On the other hand, when the gear cap increases, people could easily improve their current gear to the new level, which means great swathes of the playerbase won't be repeatedly playing the content again to grind for updated gear, something I don't see ZoS catering to in order to increase the playtime. That said, this is the ideal choice.

Removing gear levels entirely would negate an enormous chunk of the crafting tree while making the vast majority of level-dependent materials worthless. I imagine also that this would be heavily abused for the level 10-49 campaign if experienced players could take their fully gold gear from their mains and transfer it over to a low-level duplicate. Imagine seeing a level 40 sorc running around with a Maelstrom Lightning staff.

MLGProPlayer

Isn't this how every RPG ever (single player or multiplayer) has done gear though? You wear junk until you get to endgame.

GrumpyDuckling

Yakidafi wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

I have always enjoyed crafted sets when leveling a new character. Why would you want to grind at lvl 10 for bsw. Questing and learning the new class is more important than grinding level and gear. That seems horrible to me.

Questing has the same problem. Any meaningful quest rewards you get will soon get out leveled.

Meaningful quest reward?

Quests that one finds meaningful and the reward that comes at the end. There have been a few quests that were really awesome, and it would be cool if the reward was worth saving.

Shadzilla

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This phrase, or some variation of it, is one of the more common phrases I hear vet players say to new players who are inquiring about gear - and those vet players aren't wrong.

ZOS, please recognize that your current gear system, which doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under CP160, discourages new players from enjoying an essential aspect of this game, permanently useful gear collection, until after CP160 is attained. On ESO Live you always talk about making the game more intuitive and welcoming for new players. Please start here.

Solutions:
- Allow items to be improved to CP160 via crafating
- Remove gear levels

Not sure what crafating is. Also, are you kidding me? These two ideas are ridiculous. Gear grinding is a massive part of endgame, and very rewarding once you acquire what you are looking for. 80% of the population would have best in slot gear before they even hit max cap. I don't wanna see level 20's running around with BIS vma weapons/trial gear that they got farming normals with pugs.

1) Thanks for catching my typo. I'll edit.
2) Why can't we make gear grinding a massive part of all game, instead just end game?
3) If a player can land VMA weapons at level 20, power to them.

I do not want to see people able to obtain the best gear available in the entire game so early without any sort of effort running normals. It would make 80% of the population godlike without any work. Personally I like the fact that some of the best gear is hard to get, and wish there was more to the rareness. I could see eliminating a couple trash trait drops in vma/trials, but I do not want to see everyone and their dog with best in slot gear. I think having that top level, where a player has to commit time and effort to get certain pieces, is a great aspect of the game. Not sure if you played wow a decade ago, but 24 man raids would do runs and only 25% of the raid would even get a gear piece during the run. You would analyze what gear dropped and talk about it as a group. Was a great way to make people not only play more, but feel more rewarded when they obtained that BIS gear. I wish raids were like that nowadays instead of every single person getting a drop and being tradable in group.

GrumpyDuckling

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This phrase, or some variation of it, is one of the more common phrases I hear vet players say to new players who are inquiring about gear - and those vet players aren't wrong.

ZOS, please recognize that your current gear system, which doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under CP160, discourages new players from enjoying an essential aspect of this game, permanently useful gear collection, until after CP160 is attained. On ESO Live you always talk about making the game more intuitive and welcoming for new players. Please start here.

Solutions:
- Allow items to be improved to CP160 via crafating
- Remove gear levels

Not sure what crafating is. Also, are you kidding me? These two ideas are ridiculous. Gear grinding is a massive part of endgame, and very rewarding once you acquire what you are looking for. 80% of the population would have best in slot gear before they even hit max cap. I don't wanna see level 20's running around with BIS vma weapons/trial gear that they got farming normals with pugs.

1) Thanks for catching my typo. I'll edit.
2) Why can't we make gear grinding a massive part of all game, instead just end game?
3) If a player can land VMA weapons at level 20, power to them.

I do not want to see people able to obtain the best gear available in the entire game so early without any sort of effort running normals. It would make 80% of the population godlike without any work. Personally I like the fact that some of the best gear is hard to get, and wish there was more to the rareness. I could see eliminating a couple trash trait drops in vma/trials, but I do not want to see everyone and their dog with best in slot gear. I think having that top level, where a player has to commit time and effort to get certain pieces, is a great aspect of the game. Not sure if you played wow a decade ago, but 24 man raids would do runs and only 25% of the raid would even get a gear piece during the run. You would analyze what gear dropped and talk about it as a group. Was a great way to make people not only play more, but feel more rewarded when they obtained that BIS gear. I wish raids were like that nowadays instead of every single person getting a drop and being tradable in group.

I doubt new players who farm BIS gear would be "godlike." There is a lot to be said about experience and understand mechanics in this game.

Aliyavana

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This phrase, or some variation of it, is one of the more common phrases I hear vet players say to new players who are inquiring about gear - and those vet players aren't wrong.

ZOS, please recognize that your current gear system, which doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under CP160, discourages new players from enjoying an essential aspect of this game, permanently useful gear collection, until after CP160 is attained. On ESO Live you always talk about making the game more intuitive and welcoming for new players. Please start here.

Solutions:
- Allow items to be improved to CP160 via crafating
- Remove gear levels

Not sure what crafating is. Also, are you kidding me? These two ideas are ridiculous. Gear grinding is a massive part of endgame, and very rewarding once you acquire what you are looking for. 80% of the population would have best in slot gear before they even hit max cap. I don't wanna see level 20's running around with BIS vma weapons/trial gear that they got farming normals with pugs.

1) Thanks for catching my typo. I'll edit.
2) Why can't we make gear grinding a massive part of all game, instead just end game?
3) If a player can land VMA weapons at level 20, power to them.

I do not want to see people able to obtain the best gear available in the entire game so early without any sort of effort running normals. It would make 80% of the population godlike without any work. Personally I like the fact that some of the best gear is hard to get, and wish there was more to the rareness. I could see eliminating a couple trash trait drops in vma/trials, but I do not want to see everyone and their dog with best in slot gear. I think having that top level, where a player has to commit time and effort to get certain pieces, is a great aspect of the game. Not sure if you played wow a decade ago, but 24 man raids would do runs and only 25% of the raid would even get a gear piece during the run. You would analyze what gear dropped and talk about it as a group. Was a great way to make people not only play more, but feel more rewarded when they obtained that BIS gear. I wish raids were like that nowadays instead of every single person getting a drop and being tradable in group.

I doubt new players who farm BIS gear would be "godlike." There is a lot to be said about experience and understand mechanics in this game.

In shor pvp low lvls with gear would be even easier to achieve and imbalance pvp on that campaign even more

Alpheu5

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This phrase, or some variation of it, is one of the more common phrases I hear vet players say to new players who are inquiring about gear - and those vet players aren't wrong.

ZOS, please recognize that your current gear system, which doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under CP160, discourages new players from enjoying an essential aspect of this game, permanently useful gear collection, until after CP160 is attained. On ESO Live you always talk about making the game more intuitive and welcoming for new players. Please start here.

Solutions:
- Allow items to be improved to CP160 via crafating
- Remove gear levels

Not sure what crafating is. Also, are you kidding me? These two ideas are ridiculous. Gear grinding is a massive part of endgame, and very rewarding once you acquire what you are looking for. 80% of the population would have best in slot gear before they even hit max cap. I don't wanna see level 20's running around with BIS vma weapons/trial gear that they got farming normals with pugs.

1) Thanks for catching my typo. I'll edit.
2) Why can't we make gear grinding a massive part of all game, instead just end game?
3) If a player can land VMA weapons at level 20, power to them.

I do not want to see people able to obtain the best gear available in the entire game so early without any sort of effort running normals. It would make 80% of the population godlike without any work. Personally I like the fact that some of the best gear is hard to get, and wish there was more to the rareness. I could see eliminating a couple trash trait drops in vma/trials, but I do not want to see everyone and their dog with best in slot gear. I think having that top level, where a player has to commit time and effort to get certain pieces, is a great aspect of the game. Not sure if you played wow a decade ago, but 24 man raids would do runs and only 25% of the raid would even get a gear piece during the run. You would analyze what gear dropped and talk about it as a group. Was a great way to make people not only play more, but feel more rewarded when they obtained that BIS gear. I wish raids were like that nowadays instead of every single person getting a drop and being tradable in group.

I was so disappointed that they made sets like Necropotence and Lich available for anybody at any level willing to grind some delves or a normal group dungeon repeatedly. It was so fulfilling to finally get all of my needed Necropotence gear from AA, selling the Lich pieces I got from a lucky dolmen to fund the potion chugging along the way.

Of course, there's a fine line between working hard to get a piece you need, and smashing your head against the keyboard to kill the same thing for the 700th time in the hopes of getting something with a trait other than training or prosperous. I'm all for streamlining the process to make acquisition easier but OT offered nearly everything on a silver platter.

auni116

I believe at early levels its best to enjoy the game, explore and learn everything it has to offer rather than grind gear and then have no reason to grind for them again.

I took about 100+ hours to get my NB to level 50 because I was trying everything like pvp, world bosses, dungeons, quests, etc. There was no issue of having to get new gear as you level up because the quests/dungeons/world bosses (or even crafting if invest in it and researching early) basically give them to you as a reward. If we could just get BiS gear at early level with no need to get gear at end-game, the journey and end-game will become pointless; the whole point of only getting a "permanently useful gear collection" only after max level and cp 160 is that it is a reward for getting there after your levelling journey, and having to change/upgrade your gear as you level up makes levelling feel more progressive.

KochDerDamonen

I always took it as a positive thing to tell people. "Don't worry about blowing your brains out trying to farm gear, you're really flexible til you hit max level and all you really want to do is try and grab current-level stuff with set bonuses occasionally."

Shadzilla

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This phrase, or some variation of it, is one of the more common phrases I hear vet players say to new players who are inquiring about gear - and those vet players aren't wrong.

ZOS, please recognize that your current gear system, which doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under CP160, discourages new players from enjoying an essential aspect of this game, permanently useful gear collection, until after CP160 is attained. On ESO Live you always talk about making the game more intuitive and welcoming for new players. Please start here.

Solutions:
- Allow items to be improved to CP160 via crafating
- Remove gear levels

Not sure what crafating is. Also, are you kidding me? These two ideas are ridiculous. Gear grinding is a massive part of endgame, and very rewarding once you acquire what you are looking for. 80% of the population would have best in slot gear before they even hit max cap. I don't wanna see level 20's running around with BIS vma weapons/trial gear that they got farming normals with pugs.

1) Thanks for catching my typo. I'll edit.
2) Why can't we make gear grinding a massive part of all game, instead just end game?
3) If a player can land VMA weapons at level 20, power to them.

I do not want to see people able to obtain the best gear available in the entire game so early without any sort of effort running normals. It would make 80% of the population godlike without any work. Personally I like the fact that some of the best gear is hard to get, and wish there was more to the rareness. I could see eliminating a couple trash trait drops in vma/trials, but I do not want to see everyone and their dog with best in slot gear. I think having that top level, where a player has to commit time and effort to get certain pieces, is a great aspect of the game. Not sure if you played wow a decade ago, but 24 man raids would do runs and only 25% of the raid would even get a gear piece during the run. You would analyze what gear dropped and talk about it as a group. Was a great way to make people not only play more, but feel more rewarded when they obtained that BIS gear. I wish raids were like that nowadays instead of every single person getting a drop and being tradable in group.

I doubt new players who farm BIS gear would be "godlike." There is a lot to be said about experience and understand mechanics in this game.

You know what I mean. Geared "godlike", how much fun would a new player have if he got the best gear possible in his 20s or 30s. That being said I am a huge preacher of skill>gear. In all honesty I have lots of friends that could easily out perform 90% of the player base in blue craftable gear. Regardless, being able to obtain the best possible gear in the game should be in the "endgame" category.

Shadzilla

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This phrase, or some variation of it, is one of the more common phrases I hear vet players say to new players who are inquiring about gear - and those vet players aren't wrong.

ZOS, please recognize that your current gear system, which doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under CP160, discourages new players from enjoying an essential aspect of this game, permanently useful gear collection, until after CP160 is attained. On ESO Live you always talk about making the game more intuitive and welcoming for new players. Please start here.

Solutions:
- Allow items to be improved to CP160 via crafating
- Remove gear levels

Not sure what crafating is. Also, are you kidding me? These two ideas are ridiculous. Gear grinding is a massive part of endgame, and very rewarding once you acquire what you are looking for. 80% of the population would have best in slot gear before they even hit max cap. I don't wanna see level 20's running around with BIS vma weapons/trial gear that they got farming normals with pugs.

1) Thanks for catching my typo. I'll edit.
2) Why can't we make gear grinding a massive part of all game, instead just end game?
3) If a player can land VMA weapons at level 20, power to them.

I do not want to see people able to obtain the best gear available in the entire game so early without any sort of effort running normals. It would make 80% of the population godlike without any work. Personally I like the fact that some of the best gear is hard to get, and wish there was more to the rareness. I could see eliminating a couple trash trait drops in vma/trials, but I do not want to see everyone and their dog with best in slot gear. I think having that top level, where a player has to commit time and effort to get certain pieces, is a great aspect of the game. Not sure if you played wow a decade ago, but 24 man raids would do runs and only 25% of the raid would even get a gear piece during the run. You would analyze what gear dropped and talk about it as a group. Was a great way to make people not only play more, but feel more rewarded when they obtained that BIS gear. I wish raids were like that nowadays instead of every single person getting a drop and being tradable in group.

I was so disappointed that they made sets like Necropotence and Lich available for anybody at any level willing to grind some delves or a normal group dungeon repeatedly. It was so fulfilling to finally get all of my needed Necropotence gear from AA, selling the Lich pieces I got from a lucky dolmen to fund the potion chugging along the way.

Of course, there's a fine line between working hard to get a piece you need, and smashing your head against the keyboard to kill the same thing for the 700th time in the hopes of getting something with a trait other than training or prosperous. I'm all for streamlining the process to make acquisition easier but OT offered nearly everything on a silver platter.

Lich, ohhhhh how I miss the old days. The amount of times I would buy a lich staff for 200k and sell it for 1.6m were amazing. Really miss those times. As weird as it might sound I just like the more rare to get gear game design. Much more fun IMO, and rewarding. That being said I do play multiple hours daily usually. I could see people that only play a day or two a week favoring the opposite.

idk

I have been playing this game since PC launch and have 11 max level characters and this has not been an issue. Characters I do not speed level I typically equip whatever drops and go with it.

As for CP level gear, a player can easily get that first 160 CP in an evening playing hard. A few days playing probably average. I have also never played a good MMO that had anything like what you are suggesting and have been accustomed to being required to get new gear about once a year.

The issue we have in ESO is the drop rate is horrible. Not as much armor, but weapons are what is truly atrocious. Zos just needs to fix the RNG so it is not so bad.

aliyavana wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This phrase, or some variation of it, is one of the more common phrases I hear vet players say to new players who are inquiring about gear - and those vet players aren't wrong.

ZOS, please recognize that your current gear system, which doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under CP160, discourages new players from enjoying an essential aspect of this game, permanently useful gear collection, until after CP160 is attained. On ESO Live you always talk about making the game more intuitive and welcoming for new players. Please start here.

Solutions:
- Allow items to be improved to CP160 via crafating
- Remove gear levels

Not sure what crafating is. Also, are you kidding me? These two ideas are ridiculous. Gear grinding is a massive part of endgame, and very rewarding once you acquire what you are looking for. 80% of the population would have best in slot gear before they even hit max cap. I don't wanna see level 20's running around with BIS vma weapons/trial gear that they got farming normals with pugs.

1) Thanks for catching my typo. I'll edit.
2) Why can't we make gear grinding a massive part of all game, instead just end game?
3) If a player can land VMA weapons at level 20, power to them.

I do not want to see people able to obtain the best gear available in the entire game so early without any sort of effort running normals. It would make 80% of the population godlike without any work. Personally I like the fact that some of the best gear is hard to get, and wish there was more to the rareness. I could see eliminating a couple trash trait drops in vma/trials, but I do not want to see everyone and their dog with best in slot gear. I think having that top level, where a player has to commit time and effort to get certain pieces, is a great aspect of the game. Not sure if you played wow a decade ago, but 24 man raids would do runs and only 25% of the raid would even get a gear piece during the run. You would analyze what gear dropped and talk about it as a group. Was a great way to make people not only play more, but feel more rewarded when they obtained that BIS gear. I wish raids were like that nowadays instead of every single person getting a drop and being tradable in group.

I doubt new players who farm BIS gear would be "godlike." There is a lot to be said about experience and understand mechanics in this game.

In shor pvp low lvls with gear would be even easier to achieve and imbalance pvp on that campaign even more

This is a good point.

KingYogi415

Clearly OP is new to the game and has never heard of the vet ranking system.

Go look up a review of the game around IC release.

You will be singing ZOS's praises when you get get back.

Instead of QQ'ing on the forums you could be getting gud.

Cheers!

KingYogi415

Remove all gear level...

This is why only subs should be allowed to forum.

Morgul667

That'd be nice indeed

Agree with both idea 1 and 2

Fur_like_snow

This one plays a great deal of pvp across different servers but prefers Kyne above all others. Many of the issues that plague BGs and CP campaigns(proc sets, monster helms) don't exist or are so few and far between they play little role in shaping the meta. If gear had its level removed it would cause Kyne to become imbalanced where everyone would be wearing viper tremor all the time just like the other campaigns. No thanks.

GrumpyDuckling

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Clearly OP is new to the game and has never heard of the vet ranking system.

Go look up a review of the game around IC release.

You will be singing ZOS's praises when you get get back.

Instead of QQ'ing on the forums you could be getting gud.

Cheers!

You are wrong. I have been playing since Xbox launch and have max CP with 7 fully leveled characters, so yes I am aware of the old vet rank system. Just because things are better now doesn't mean they can't be improved.

Instead of making incorrect assumptions about and insulting people on the forums, you could try contributing to the topic.

starkerealm

With the way the game works now, I'd honestly recommend we simply drop gear levels as a concept, and differentiate the "lower tier" materials with different effects rather than lower stats (or rather than just lower stats).

DaveMoeDee

Considering how common this problem is in single player games, I'm not concerned. I gave up on gearing up at low levels many games ago.

Ruckly

Regarding OP just about every MMO I've ever played was like that O.o. FFXI, WoW, SWTOR, Rift, LOTRO, Neverwinter, Tera, Aion, Wildstar, ESO, Archeage, Blade & Soul, Revelation, SW, GW, GW2. Just about every rpg I have ever played was like that too. FF1, FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10, FFX-2, Diablo 2, Earthbound, BG, BG2, IWD, PST, Nox, Champions, ES3, ES4, ES5, ME, ME2... I think the only MMO I have played that doesn't strictly have gear lvls is PS2 and it is a FPS.