(Attn. ZOS) "No, don't bother. You'll just outlevel your gear. Grind to CP160."

NewBlacksmurf

My suggestion was remove item levels
Keep stats tiers

Seems aweful to have levels 1-49 and then cp tiers but it's the Vr system. Just remove it

To those who say X game does that.....this isn't any of those and that's why we aren't playing those games but suggesting changes to this game.

joaaocaampos

Darkstorne wrote: »

CP levels are awesome for character progression after level 50, but level 50 needs to be max level where gear is concerned. Nothing hurt me more than FINALLY hitting level 50 with my first character only to be told "Great! Now go grind another ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY LEVELS and you can finally start end game!" I still haven't hit CP160, and it's pissing me off as a casual player. Everything I do feels like wasting time, but I refuse to pay for Skyreach boosts. I completely understand why new players do that though, because this is a really *** system at the moment.

All they have to do is remove CP10-150 gear, and make CP 160 gear simply called "CP gear", with no level attachment. From there, focusing on all the new gear that's added in DLC and expansions being visually stunning (so we WANT to collect them), and adding new and exciting set bonuses. New monster sets are also awesome since there's a lot of challenge involved in obtaining them. Gear should be about the visuals, challenge, and unique set bonuses from now on, and not simply about replacing all your existing gear every expac like other MMOs just because they added an extra 10 levels or so to the new gear. That's one thing ZOS is doing well right now.

This is the best idea!

Normal Gear: Level 1 to 49.
Champion Gear: Level 50.

Please ZOS, don't create CP Gear: 200, 300, 600, 630, 660 etc. No! That's the mistake made by other MMOs. That's what made me stop playing WoW. That's what keeps me away from FFXIV. I hope ESO remains unique! This is one of the things I loved in ESO.

idk

I'd have no issue as long as it's very expensive and not easy to upgraded gear.

Maybe like 5x of the upgrade mats for the quality it is. If it's good it would take 40 gold upgrade matts. Maybe something even rarer from the master voucher merchant.

Otherwise it's just laziness being discussed here.

Nemesis7884

It would be kinda coom tbh if you could upgrade any gear to cp 160....this way you also dont have to jump out of the window when you find a sharpened spriggan dagger at lvl 30

seedubsrun

Yep, I like this. I like the idea of lvl 50 gear just being Champion gear and it scaling with your CP up to 160. This way if eventually the CP cap is 1000 and they want to add an additional level of gear they just increase the champion gear max scale to, say, 200 instead of creating some new material. Maybe it requires 8 tempering alloys/rosin/dreugh wax to go from 160 to 200 then any normal additional mats to upgrade rare>epic>legendary. Or maybe they do come up with one new BoP material that drops from dungeons/trials/vMA/vDSA bosses and you need X amount to go from 160 to 200. That way bettering your gear would require the playing of end game content instead of vice versa. It could be traded like dungeon gear but not sold. Lower than lvl 50 gear could be upgraded using the next highest level material and would scale from 1-49. I remember getting a lvl 30 Sharpened Elegant inferno staff on my Templar when I needed that set with my Sorc at the time and just being so disappointed that the drop I've been trying so hard to get finally came but was completely useless to me.

Avalon

They should make the grind to 50 be like the tutorial. Once you get to 50 with any class, if you create another character of that class, it should ask if you wish to skip the pointless grind.

Sakiri

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This phrase, or some variation of it, is one of the more common phrases I hear vet players say to new players who are inquiring about gear - and those vet players aren't wrong.

ZOS, please recognize that your current gear system, which doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under CP160, discourages new players from enjoying an essential aspect of this game, permanently useful gear collection, until after CP160 is attained. On ESO Live you always talk about making the game more intuitive and welcoming for new players. Please start here.

Solutions:
- Allow items to be improved to CP160 via crafating
- Remove gear levels

Not sure what crafating is. Also, are you kidding me? These two ideas are ridiculous. Gear grinding is a massive part of endgame, and very rewarding once you acquire what you are looking for. 80% of the population would have best in slot gear before they even hit max cap. I don't wanna see level 20's running around with BIS vma weapons/trial gear that they got farming normals with pugs.

1) Thanks for catching my typo. I'll edit.
2) Why can't we make gear grinding a massive part of all game, instead just end game?
3) If a player can land VMA weapons at level 20, power to them.

I do not want to see people able to obtain the best gear available in the entire game so early without any sort of effort running normals. It would make 80% of the population godlike without any work. Personally I like the fact that some of the best gear is hard to get, and wish there was more to the rareness. I could see eliminating a couple trash trait drops in vma/trials, but I do not want to see everyone and their dog with best in slot gear. I think having that top level, where a player has to commit time and effort to get certain pieces, is a great aspect of the game. Not sure if you played wow a decade ago, but 24 man raids would do runs and only 25% of the raid would even get a gear piece during the run. You would analyze what gear dropped and talk about it as a group. Was a great way to make people not only play more, but feel more rewarded when they obtained that BIS gear. I wish raids were like that nowadays instead of every single person getting a drop and being tradable in group.

You missed how they also used to do gold DKP runs where you bought the gear that dropped and the gold pool was split up at the end.

Or the guilds that sell carries + loot for millions of gold.

And you can't say they didn't do it back "in the old days" because they, and by they I mean I, did.

seedubsrun

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This phrase, or some variation of it, is one of the more common phrases I hear vet players say to new players who are inquiring about gear - and those vet players aren't wrong.

ZOS, please recognize that your current gear system, which doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under CP160, discourages new players from enjoying an essential aspect of this game, permanently useful gear collection, until after CP160 is attained. On ESO Live you always talk about making the game more intuitive and welcoming for new players. Please start here.

Solutions:
- Allow items to be improved to CP160 via crafating
- Remove gear levels

Not sure what crafating is. Also, are you kidding me? These two ideas are ridiculous. Gear grinding is a massive part of endgame, and very rewarding once you acquire what you are looking for. 80% of the population would have best in slot gear before they even hit max cap. I don't wanna see level 20's running around with BIS vma weapons/trial gear that they got farming normals with pugs.

1) Thanks for catching my typo. I'll edit.
2) Why can't we make gear grinding a massive part of all game, instead just end game?
3) If a player can land VMA weapons at level 20, power to them.

I do not want to see people able to obtain the best gear available in the entire game so early without any sort of effort running normals. It would make 80% of the population godlike without any work. Personally I like the fact that some of the best gear is hard to get, and wish there was more to the rareness. I could see eliminating a couple trash trait drops in vma/trials, but I do not want to see everyone and their dog with best in slot gear. I think having that top level, where a player has to commit time and effort to get certain pieces, is a great aspect of the game. Not sure if you played wow a decade ago, but 24 man raids would do runs and only 25% of the raid would even get a gear piece during the run. You would analyze what gear dropped and talk about it as a group. Was a great way to make people not only play more, but feel more rewarded when they obtained that BIS gear. I wish raids were like that nowadays instead of every single person getting a drop and being tradable in group.

Not sure I agree with this for several reasons.
1) A lot of the very best gear still wont be available to new players right from the beginning since a new player wouldn't be ready for a lot of the end game content. No jewelry from dungeon sets, monster sets, trials gear, vMA, vDSA, etc would still be pretty much off the table till much later in the game.
2) Even if new players could access that stuff they likely wouldn't be good enough yet to actually complete it or be able to find a group willing to allow them to join up. They'd have to be at least 15 to even get 2 weapons let alone all the skills and morphs they wouldn't yet have
3) If a player was that good and could access it then they're likely just working on another character and that's when the grind can become unbearable.
4) If the gear scaled based on level and then CP rank even if they had BiS gear it wouldn't be the best it could be so there would be no lvl 20 gods running around destroying CP 630 players
5) what it would do was give lower level players access to the grind earlier, spreading it out over the course of the storylines instead of hitting that wall where you simply can't do anything else in the game really without getting the better gear. They could choose to grind or slowly collect the gear as a means to an end knowing it wont be a pointless venture. This just gives the player more opportunity to play how they choose to
6) You would still have to actually grind for the gear so to say they'd get the gear without any effort isn't true. They'd be subject to the same grind as anyone else.
7) I think many lower level new players would choose crafted gear over grinding initially because the game is still new to them and there's tons to do. getting some good crafted gear and then questing would probably be more fun than grinding. there would of course be those that chose the grind but again that should be their choice
8) Nerfs and new sets being added regularly changes what BiS is so it's not like a lvl 20 could grind, get what they want, and then never grind again

Diminish

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This phrase, or some variation of it, is one of the more common phrases I hear vet players say to new players who are inquiring about gear - and those vet players aren't wrong.

ZOS, please recognize that your current gear system, which doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under CP160, discourages new players from enjoying an essential aspect of this game, permanently useful gear collection, until after CP160 is attained. On ESO Live you always talk about making the game more intuitive and welcoming for new players. Please start here.

Solutions:
- Allow items to be improved to CP160 via crafating
- Remove gear levels

Not sure what crafating is. Also, are you kidding me? These two ideas are ridiculous. Gear grinding is a massive part of endgame, and very rewarding once you acquire what you are looking for. 80% of the population would have best in slot gear before they even hit max cap. I don't wanna see level 20's running around with BIS vma weapons/trial gear that they got farming normals with pugs.

Take a low CP character in VMA and come back and tell me when you get a BiS vMA weapon. As for trials/dungeon PUGing, this already happens... Anywhere from non-CP characters to CP630 characters.

Bouldercleave

Sounds completely boring to me.

Grind at low levels to get BiS gear then keep the same gear for the rest of the game? Yawn.

I understand what you are trying to accomplish here, but personally I think it's just a terrible boring way to play. Not all of us shoot for the best gear and head over to Cyrodil for the remainder of our playtime.

Bouldercleave

Avalon wrote: »

They should make the grind to 50 be like the tutorial. Once you get to 50 with any class, if you create another character of that class, it should ask if you wish to skip the pointless grind.

Not all of us "grind" to 50.

jroc699_burr

KEEP THE GEAR THE WAY IT IS ALL US VET PLAYERS HAD TO GRIND SO SHOULD YOU !

idk

L

jroc699_burr wrote: »

KEEP THE GEAR THE WAY IT IS ALL US VET PLAYERS HAD TO GRIND SO SHOULD YOU !

I don't think there is even a small chance of this idea happening so no worries.

seedubsrun

jroc699_burr wrote: »

KEEP THE GEAR THE WAY IT IS ALL US VET PLAYERS HAD TO GRIND SO SHOULD YOU !

Really? It's like someone said the word fire and now half the people in this thread think the world is burning. There's endless amounts of threads that speak specifically about the annoyance of certain grinds. many of you probably participated in them. OP offered a suggestion that not only would help make certain aspects of the game less of a slap in the face, it also would help Zos in the future. if the CP rank goes way up eventually, do you think the gear will stay at CP160 forever? Doubt it. Then how will all of you CP630 BiS having players feel when all the time, effort, mats, gold, stress you put into your gear overnight becomes meaningless. I'll bet a bunch of you will play a different tune at that point. "Oh, you ran vMA 400 times before you finally got your sharpened inferno staff? Sorry about your luck cause it's garbage now. Better go do it again if you want to be competitive still" and anyone that says "We all had to grind so everyone else should too" clearly didn't read any of this thread or at least didn't comprehend it. Look at my post above. There's plenty of reasons right there as to why everyone would still have to grind, a lot, forever. There is in fact such a thing as positive change and if you still remain unconvinced then sleep soundly tonight knowing that Zos doesn't listen to good ideas. Doesn't mean the players shouldn't still have them, discuss/debate them, hope/wish for them.

CromulentForumID

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Remove all gear level...

This is why only subs should be allowed to forum.

Rather than just dismiss the idea out of hand, how about explain some reasoning?

Our characters are all scaled, level really doesn't mean all that much. Other than for gear.

So, what the are obvious reasons we should not be scaling the gear as well?

CromulentForumID

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT wrote: »

Bored of 160 gear. So bored of picking up the same old.

Ai mobs are too easy. Picking up the same 160 gear. Not enjoying the game anymore.

ZM we need punishing mobs, high level enemies, 900 plus and also up to 600 level gear.

So, then we could just make the problem worse by having people Power Level in Skyreach to level 600 instead of 160?

Whatever number you put on the gear, people will want to grind up to that level before "playing" because why waste your time getting inferior gear?

Also, we're all scaled. Would CP 600 gear actually do anything?

Kiralyn2000

Having played various styles of "RPG" over the last 30+ years, leveling up, finding new loot & throwing away old loot, exploring & adventuring (to find more loot)..... I just don't understand where all these "get rid of gear levels/progression/etc" ideas are coming from. Is it from folks who've just played action games, not RPGs? /confused

MopeyHat

It's a fantasy of mine that someday the replace the boring tiered crafting/loot and rework the materials to be used in a more interesting, horizontal recipe system.

AlnilamE

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This phrase, or some variation of it, is one of the more common phrases I hear vet players say to new players who are inquiring about gear - and those vet players aren't wrong.

ZOS, please recognize that your current gear system, which doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under CP160, discourages new players from enjoying an essential aspect of this game, permanently useful gear collection, until after CP160 is attained. On ESO Live you always talk about making the game more intuitive and welcoming for new players. Please start here.

Solutions:
- Allow items to be improved to CP160 via crafting
- Remove gear levels

Edit: Typo

But one of the best parts of leveling a character is trying out sets along the way to see what works. Why would you not want to do that?

And with the low mat requirements of everything below CP 160, it's a piece of cake to make even purple gear (or blue gear with purple weapons if you are being cheap).

And I personally never tell anyone to "just grind to 160". I tell people to do what they enjoy in the game and the levels and CP will just happen.

seedubsrun

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Having played various styles of "RPG" over the last 30+ years, leveling up, finding new loot & throwing away old loot, exploring & adventuring (to find more loot)..... I just don't understand where all these "get rid of gear levels/progression/etc" ideas are coming from. Is it from folks who've just played action games, not RPGs? /confused

I too have spent many decades playing RPG style games doing the same things. My question would be "Just because that's what people are used to does that mean it's the proper direction? Does it mean there's no better way?" seems to me that extending the life of a game by forcing an endless grind is a cop out to actually creating content. Besides the gear would still need to be leveled. The difference is the player would be in charge of that not game mechanics.

Shadzilla

JKorr wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

I think one of the best things they could do is remove the levels from equipment. The game isn't about material things, it's about experiencing the content; dungeons/quests/trials/delves etc etc. Gear is a means to an ends, nothing more. Improving that aspect of the game will only improve the majority of players' experience at they level their characters, and -more importantly- will only improve their interaction with others.

The equipment system has lagged behind with the release of One Tamriel, hopefully it will be improved.

I don't do trials. I don't do pledges, with minor exceptions; I will go play meat shield/sword fodder for guildies that need a body for a pledge; I know they have to be desperate if they ask me to go. I abhor pvp. Why would I bother continuing to play a game that forced me into doing content I don't enjoy, don't want to participate in, or outright dislike just to get gear to continue doing content I don't enjoy? Why would I continue to play a game that forced me to interact with other players I don't want to interact with in the first place?

While I know not all players who do trials/pledges/whatever are min/max fanatics who heap scorn on anyone who hasn't managed to squeeze that last .000001% of dps, I have run into those types. Nothing would "improve my interactions" with them. This is a game I play for fun/enjoyment/relaxation, as a hobby. I'm not competitive. I'm not getting paid to play this game. The gottowinsuperuberleetdemigodofdestruction mentality is something I just don't understand.

I'm at 20 characters currently, two accounts. 16 are over level 50. I quest. I do dailies. I'm still playing because I enjoy the game. Force me into content I don't like to get gear to let me do stuff I do like, and I'll leave because the fun and enjoyment will be gone.

It is a pretty simple concept, if you do the hardest content you get the best gear. This is not new, common in most MMO's. I am actually upset how common the BIS gear actually is. The ability to trade gear with 11 other people in the trial is ridiculous, but somewhat acceptable due to the horrible traits that often drop. If you are not interested in doing the hardest content in an MMO to get the best gear possible, play without having that gear.

MasterSpatula

And so the drive to make the leveling process meaningless continues.

leepalmer95

But you do get from 50 to cp 160 pretty quickly a few hours if you grind.

A couple of weeks if you don't because of lack of exp boosts and gear. Plus questing is quite slow.

Theres more than enough time to make gear or gets sets if your new, you'll be able to keep them for a while.

But yeah if you want to start farming end game gear that can you reuse then you should be cp 160, should count yourselfs lucky in most other game you actually have to be max level to keep gear and use between characters.

Not basically low tier level.

idk

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

My suggestion was remove item levels
Keep stats tiers

Seems aweful to have levels 1-49 and then cp tiers but it's the Vr system. Just remove it

To those who say X game does that.....this isn't any of those and that's why we aren't playing those games but suggesting changes to this game.

@NewBlacksmurf If the reason you do not play certain games is because they have levels and the gear has levels then why are you playing this game. Maybe I misunderstood your comment, but it seems to not hold up to it's own logic.

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT

Having just level 50 gear would be boring as fu&k.

Bored of 160 gear already.

Bored of degenerate Ai.

Punish us ZM. Time to release the insanity level gear 600plus no messing around.

pizzaow

There are so many good ideas in this post.

I'd love to see them rework the gear/crafting system if/when/instead of increasing the gear to CP180/200.

My suggestion: Have gear become "wieldable" at certain levels.

For example:
When starting out only a few sets are available to be worn (starting zone sets and 2-trait crafting sets). When you hit level 5 now you can wear 3-trait crafting sets), level 10 you can wear gear from zone 2, etc...
Once you hit CPXXX then you can wear end-game trial gear.

When wearing the gear, it scales off your level (just like up-scaling works now). The incentive for leveling up isn't to get better versions of the gear, but to get access to different sets. It's a little weird that as your character gets stronger his current gear becomes less powerful (due to up-scaling); I have to get a different sword of hunding's rage to do the same damage!? My character should do the damage, not the CP of my sword.
It makes more since that my character isn't good enough to use the sword of vicious ophidian, so that's not available for a while... ZOS could even get creative that some sets require various ranks in other skill lines. e.g. This gear can only be worn if my fighters guild is level 10.

There is no reason gear which could be obtained earlier (julianos?) could be you preferred set even at end game. And it's fair that you have to progress a little before being able to wear BiS gear.

In the current state, prior to level 50/CP160 it doesn't make sense to gold out any items, which makes it less fun (until you hit CP160). I'd much rather be able to craft/improve gear early on that might have use to me forever. A friend of mine has started to play (currently CP70); he's very casual (only about 5-10CP per week). Right now, he's still in blue training armor, and it feels like he can't really "start" until CP160.

A side note is that this would solve the inevitable gear creep that is going to hit us soon. I'd hate to have to regrind all my 160 items at 180. Please make them up-scale just like everything else.

NewBlacksmurf

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

My suggestion was remove item levels
Keep stats tiers

Seems aweful to have levels 1-49 and then cp tiers but it's the Vr system. Just remove it

To those who say X game does that.....this isn't any of those and that's why we aren't playing those games but suggesting changes to this game.

@NewBlacksmurf If the reason you do not play certain games is because they have levels and the gear has levels then why are you playing this game. Maybe I misunderstood your comment, but it seems to not hold up to it's own logic.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

Waaaay misunderstood
I actually like levels as long as it's meaningful. I enjoyed early PC 1-49 ad VR1-8 that's prob pre release tho.

What bothers me in this game is levels have lost meaning. If you're going to scale players from 1-CP150-ish....erase the in between.

Now what I'd prefer instead if we are keeping scaling:
Character has no level
Gear has no level
Skill lines have level 1-70....and with new expansions they can add 10 per each skill line and maybe another set of morphs.

I just need those indicators to mean something and honestly I thought they were actually going to remove VR and overhaul CP.

I was wrong so that's where I am.

As to why I don't play this much anymore. It's not meaningful to just do quests. If I'm just going to quest, arbitrarily kill stuff and grind rep or play RNG I'm much more enjoying Elite Dangerous (space sim)

And in that...I'll never actually see everything or get to it all as the world would take me years to visit all the star Systems and planets and upgrade my ships to even reach some places that require specifically scenarios to explore.

Anyways just saying I find myself enjoying means my games where content matters vs being arbitrary

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT

Do not upscale gear ZM.

If players moan about 'grinding' that's their problem there's enough content to just play the bloody game and get good gear.

You would be bored of the gear if it just upscales.

Betsararie

Removing gear level is a terrible idea. Pls don't listen to this ZOS.

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT

Blanco wrote: »

Removing gear level is a terrible idea. Pls don't listen to this ZOS.

Exactly, these people just want a quick fix. *** bash bloody bosh there you go.

When I found out that gear was capped at 160, I was at round level200 back in the day. The champion Point patch was already out and one of my friends corrected me when I said I cant wait to find a level 200 weapon.

Well as soon as I realized all my bloody gear was round 160 the game died. We need an insanity patch ZM.

Punish us.