(Attn. ZOS) "No, don't bother. You'll just outlevel your gear. Grind to CP160."

Izaki

Make materials change the look of the gear and make the gear itself scale off player level.

And for the love of Julianos please add some incentive to actually do crafting.

Iccotak

idk really. I liked how my characters appearance changed over the course of the game, but things are different now.
The only thing keeping us from using different sets is our research.

If you are upgrading a set are you just replacing what it is made out of?

Does it not make it more rewarding to spend all those resources on your final set?

Or is that just tedious?

Beardimus

Don't get or agree with this suggestion at all. It completely does away with Crafting which is a huge part of the game that's already less relevant for the BIS META crew at end game.

Grinding is short cutting. That's the issue. If people just played the game as intended they wouldn't then assume the game is broken and needs adapting to the broken way they want to play it.

The constant over simplification of the game is wrecking it.

If took my original guild 4-6 months to hit L50 from Console launch and we enjoyed doing it all and learning it all to get there. Now people want to do that in 1-2 hours and rush to 'emd games to complain the game is too easy and no viable end game content

I have no words...

GrumpyDuckling

Beardimus wrote: »

Don't get or agree with this suggestion at all. It completely does away with Crafting which is a huge part of the game that's already less relevant for the BIS META crew at end game.

Grinding is short cutting. That's the issue. If people just played the game as intended they wouldn't then assume the game is broken and needs adapting to the broken way they want to play it.

The constant over simplification of the game is wrecking it.

If took my original guild 4-6 months to hit L50 from Console launch and we enjoyed doing it all and learning it all to get there. Now people want to do that in 1-2 hours and rush to 'emd games to complain the game is too easy and no viable end game content

I have no words...

Wouldn't it potentially making crafting more desirable if they gave crafting an upgrade system?

If the only way to take a low level item and make it end-game quality was to do it via crafting, then crafting would be more desirable and valuable. Nothing would be stopping someone from upgrading as they go. Really attached to a sword you got while doing a quest at level 9? Then upgrade that sword as you go, continually making it stronger as your level and crafting improves.

Vaoh

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I've suggested before they should let players wear 160cp gear no matter what level and it would just scale with your character's level/Max CP. While wearing 160cp gear if your character is level 35 then the items will have level 35 stats, if your character is 30cp then it would have the same stats as 30cp gear.

I actually like this a lot. The current system doesnt work, clearly flawed based on the very reason this thread was created.

This system would give players a choice, and work quite well. At the very least, it'd be better than what we have now. The scaling systems are already in-game too.

Tecorsuh

I normally recommend that players don't grind for gear until cp160, and just craft or use whatever they pick up before then. No point in spending the time grinding for BiS gear before then, just to out level it and have to farm it again. I think most games are like that, you replace your gear as you level up and you don't farm for end-game armor until you hit the end-game.

Iccotak

Tecorsuh wrote: »

I normally recommend that players don't grind for gear until cp160, and just craft or use whatever they pick up before then. No point in spending the time grinding for BiS gear before then, just to out level it and have to farm it again. I think most games are like that, you replace your gear as you level up and you don't farm for end-game armor until you hit the end-game.

I mean that's what I did. I think keeping it like that keeps the gameplay more dynamic and getting that end-game armor set more rewarding

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT

Bored of 160 gear. So bored of picking up the same old.

Ai mobs are too easy. Picking up the same 160 gear. Not enjoying the game anymore.

ZM we need punishing mobs, high level enemies, 900 plus and also up to 600 level gear.

Pele

What's the point of a level-less gear system? The journey from brand new to 160 isn't all that long if you simply play the game, so gear levels don't need to be removed.

I can't see ESO being ESO without gear levels. It would completely wreck crafting which is an integral part of the game and make endgame gear non-exististant. How would a level-less gear system work?

GrumpyDuckling

Pele wrote: »

What's the point of a level-less gear system? The journey from brand new to 160 isn't all that long if you simply play the game, so gear levels don't need to be removed.

I can't see ESO being ESO without gear levels. It would completely wreck crafting which is an integral part of the game and make endgame gear non-exististant. How would a level-less gear system work?

There are probably better ways, but they could keep the white/green/blue/purple/gold value setup. Your ability to improve items still comes from crafting. For example, let's say they implemented gear that drops in these qualities while a player is these levels:

White 1-17
Green 17-34
Blue 34-50
Purple CP ranks

If you fall in love with a sword that you got from a quest at level 9, then you'd be able to eventually make that sword purple instead of deconstructing or selling it.

magorim

Pele wrote: »

What's the point of a level-less gear system? The journey from brand new to 160 isn't all that long if you simply play the game, so gear levels don't need to be removed.

I can't see ESO being ESO without gear levels. It would completely wreck crafting which is an integral part of the game and make endgame gear non-exististant. How would a level-less gear system work?

You don't understand, it wouldn't be the only change. The endgoal is wanting ESO to be like an adventure, races should be all the same, classes should be all the same, gear should be all the same. The only choice would be how stuff looks. Green, blue, take your pick. The freedom, play as you like, can't you see how awesome it is?

PvP would be like Call of Duty, pick a class and faction before you enter a match, buy some upgrades in the crown store. No need to grind for stuff. Everyone has the same skilllevel. Just point with your cursor at a moving target and press the left mousebutton, sometimes R if some rockets are available.

And of course we would need a global auction house for our cosmetics, like Diablo 3 had in the beginning, it was so awesome you were able to buy gear with real money!

ESO could be so good and easy for new players. Play as you like! PLAY AS YOU LIKE DOOD!

Darkstorne

CP levels are awesome for character progression after level 50, but level 50 needs to be max level where gear is concerned. Nothing hurt me more than FINALLY hitting level 50 with my first character only to be told "Great! Now go grind another ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY LEVELS and you can finally start end game!" I still haven't hit CP160, and it's pissing me off as a casual player. Everything I do feels like wasting time, but I refuse to pay for Skyreach boosts. I completely understand why new players do that though, because this is a really *** system at the moment.

All they have to do is remove CP10-150 gear, and make CP 160 gear simply called "CP gear", with no level attachment. From there, focusing on all the new gear that's added in DLC and expansions being visually stunning (so we WANT to collect them), and adding new and exciting set bonuses. New monster sets are also awesome since there's a lot of challenge involved in obtaining them. Gear should be about the visuals, challenge, and unique set bonuses from now on, and not simply about replacing all your existing gear every expac like other MMOs just because they added an extra 10 levels or so to the new gear. That's one thing ZOS is doing well right now.

Forsakiin

But what would really be the point? I only see this benefiting the higher CP players who create alts and want to get an early start on their end-game gear.

The current system is good for completely new players because it is simple to understand - you switch out armor pieces and weapons for more powerful ones that you pick up as you go along. When these players then hit CP, in theory they should have built up enough knowledge about the game to start preparing for end-game. Sounds like good progression to me.

Say this system was in place, If a level 20 new player stumbles into Crypt of Hearts and picks up a piece of Ebon in the perfect trait, do you think they'll be like "Oooh, this is one of the BiS sets for tanks, i'll keep this"? I doubt it. It'll probably be sold to a merchant or be replaced shortly after, unless this player has done extensive research before starting the game (they would definitely be in the minority).

IMO, this would just be a waste of time and effort, of which could be spent elsewhere. There are some good suggestions in here, but I think the current approach is fine.

Iccotak

magorim wrote: »

Pele wrote: »

What's the point of a level-less gear system? The journey from brand new to 160 isn't all that long if you simply play the game, so gear levels don't need to be removed.

I can't see ESO being ESO without gear levels. It would completely wreck crafting which is an integral part of the game and make endgame gear non-exististant. How would a level-less gear system work?

You don't understand, it wouldn't be the only change. The endgoal is wanting ESO to be like an adventure, races should be all the same, classes should be all the same, gear should be all the same. The only choice would be how stuff looks. Green, blue, take your pick. The freedom, play as you like, can't you see how awesome it is?

PvP would be like Call of Duty, pick a class and faction before you enter a match, buy some upgrades in the crown store. No need to grind for stuff. Everyone has the same skilllevel. Just point with your cursor at a moving target and press the left mousebutton, sometimes R if some rockets are available.

And of course we would need a global auction house for our cosmetics, like Diablo 3 had in the beginning, it was so awesome you were able to buy gear with real money!

ESO could be so good and easy for new players. Play as you like! PLAY AS YOU LIKE DOOD!

So what is the point then? That sounds like a completely different game that I don't want to play.

I don't want everything to be the same and based solely on skill. Sorry, but I like getting better not only through skill but also through awesome gear I get. This is how Elder Scrolls works.
You want that game? Go play "For Honor"

magorim

Iccotak wrote: »

So what is the point then? That sounds like a completely different game that I don't want to play.

I wasn't serious, just summarizing some stuff you can read here in the forums, like that silly suggestion from the first post. I really don't want to play that, too.

Rev Rielle

I think one of the best things they could do is remove the levels from equipment. The game isn't about material things, it's about experiencing the content; dungeons/quests/trials/delves etc etc. Gear is a means to an ends, nothing more. Improving that aspect of the game will only improve the majority of players' experience at they level their characters, and -more importantly- will only improve their interaction with others.

The equipment system has lagged behind with the release of One Tamriel, hopefully it will be improved.

timb16_ESO85

Pele wrote: »

What's the point of a level-less gear system? The journey from brand new to 160 isn't all that long if you simply play the game, so gear levels don't need to be removed.

I can't see ESO being ESO without gear levels. It would completely wreck crafting which is an integral part of the game and make endgame gear non-exististant. How would a level-less gear system work?

Completely agree with this. A big driver of crafting in mmo's is the release of new gear levels. When cp 150/160 was released, a lot of crafted gear was in demand to get the quick stat bonus (mostly with orsinium and the availability of mats) to afterwards grind for BiS gear. However, when they decided to not increase gear caps anymore, crafting became worthless after that initial starter gear (and leveling stuff). Making it so that also leveling gear gets removed, essentially cancles a big part of eso: the obtaining of new gear by means of crafting.

On a small side note, really wished new contents would come with a lot of new gear and a possible increase in gear level, just to motivate people to get new stuff crafted for them by good crafters.

Fur_like_snow

This one has created and recreated weapons/armor many times to stay at the peak of effectiveness. if having to do this every six levels is the cost to not have to pvp against proc sets and monster helms then this one will gladly pay. While some of these ideas are interesting the current system is the best imo.

supaskrub

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Ever since One Tamriel, levels have basically become nothing more than a roadblock for anybody with CP 160 alts. A level 10 wearing all level 10 purple gear is scaled to CP 160 wearing all CP 160 purple gear, and continuing to wear that gear just makes your character progressively weaker and more vulnerable, even as your abilities get stronger.

When i level alts i make two sets of gear (purple), one set at level 10 and another set at level 30 (all training gear, no sharpened or other offensive/defensive traits), the only change the sets get during use is a glyph change here and there and i probably don't even start using food buffs until around level 40 and i can get through public and group dungeons, world bosses, dolmens, quests etc with no issues (unless its a tank build but then it is generally known tank progression is the slowest) and I level up solo with my only help being from other people in the area at the same time, yes the gear does become less effective but it is by no means game breaking and it gets me to level 50 with no issues, infact when i was leveling my sorc i only died once and that was due to jumping off a waterfall in Auridon and not combat related in the slightest.

Its my opinion that OP's idea is not necessary, even with my first character equiping any loot found that is relevant to your level (doesnt even have to be "specific magicka/stamina/health" gear) gets you to cp160 with no issues other than maybe a couple of pieces may not be in your present level bracket, gear grinding begins at cp160 prior to cp160 just play the game and have fun.

connectedb16_ESO

I think the current system is better than any other mmo iv ever played, what are you talking about?!
And for the record iv played like 10+ mms over my years.

I use drops, and craft some extra if needed when leveling. Both drops and crafting felt relevant.

I just hit 160 with my first character and made a full set. It will take some time to upgrade and after a while I will have more traits for a better set but that is progression, crafting feels verry useful to me same as the gear from dungeons because of all the set bonuses you can mix and match.

Someone is suggesting removing gear levels, are you insane.
Gear levels is a huge driving force in a mmo, to get new stuff, feel more powerful etc..
Sounds more like a wow troll that want more people to come back there..

Rygonix

Give me an account-wide riding skill and I will be happy. Lord knows there are plenty of gold sinks added to the game that permanently delete millions of gold every day. So its original function of being a continual, effective gold sink just doesn't hold much water anymore.

Also more people will play for longer I reckon, when they don't have to do the half-year horse feeding grind to get on a similar level as their main (without buying those silly $10 riding tomes, valued at a dollar a day). It's one of the few things keeping me from desiring to play my stam warden.

Oh and if that is too much to accept ZoS, then at least give us 60% riding speed while in the -50 Cyrodiil bracket, for everyone while they are there. Nothing is more infuriating than missing all the battles on a new character because my horse runs like it's had all 4 of its kneecaps knocked out.

Faulgor

Yeah, has been like this in any MMO with gear levels. There's just no point in investing in your gear before max level. Everything you find is trash. It just sucks. And it's totally un-Elder Scrolls where I can equip a Daedric Axe if I find it at level 1.

As we are scaled anyway, I agree with the idea that lets every character wear max level gear and scales it accordingly.

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT

Why do players complain about grind? You don't need to do any grinding theres plenty of content to just play and get good gear.

Guys you have to be bored of 160 gear by now right?

ZM give us some hench armor 600plus insanity level.

I'm bored of the game right now. Played 800hours with 160 gear its getting silly now.

Mobs are stupidly easy I fall asleep its that boring now.

Merlin13KAGL

Shadzilla wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This phrase, or some variation of it, is one of the more common phrases I hear vet players say to new players who are inquiring about gear - and those vet players aren't wrong.

ZOS, please recognize that your current gear system, which doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under CP160, discourages new players from enjoying an essential aspect of this game, permanently useful gear collection, until after CP160 is attained. On ESO Live you always talk about making the game more intuitive and welcoming for new players. Please start here.

Solutions:
- Allow items to be improved to CP160 via crafating
- Remove gear levels

Not sure what crafating is. Also, are you kidding me? These two ideas are ridiculous. Gear grinding is a massive part of endgame, and very rewarding once you acquire what you are looking for. 80% of the population would have best in slot gear before they even hit max cap. I don't wanna see level 20's running around with BIS vma weapons/trial gear that they got farming normals with pugs.

@Shadzilla I think you mean having the resultant set is rewarding, because the grind itself is just a painful time sink, nothing more.

I agree that the gear should have use along the way, and low levels should not have BiS capability (due to the gear level).

It's the content that should be the endgame reward, not the filler that is the gear grind we have now. Perhaps if they made changes to the sets to give them more useful, unique benefits, something other than proc/min/max stats and damage, none of this would be as painful as it is in its current state?

Doctordarkspawn

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Stop posting good ideas , those just get ignored .

I should just quote this and post it on almost every thread like this.

idk

I have been playing this game since PC launch and have 11 max level characters and this has not been an issue. Characters I do not speed level I typically equip whatever drops and go with it.

As for CP level gear, a player can easily get that first 160 CP in an evening playing hard. A few days playing probably average. I have also never played a good MMO that had anything like what you are suggesting and have been accustomed to being required to get new gear about once a year.

The issue we have in ESO is the drop rate is horrible. Not as much armor, but weapons are what is truly atrocious. Zos just needs to fix the RNG so it is not so bad. What OP is wanting is not needed.

aliyavana wrote: »
» show previous quotes

In shor pvp low lvls with gear would be even easier to achieve and imbalance pvp on that campaign even more

This is a good point.

Solariken

Yeah, gear and glyph levels shouldn't even exist in ESO.

Edit: and food/potions.

JKorr

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

This phrase, or some variation of it, is one of the more common phrases I hear vet players say to new players who are inquiring about gear - and those vet players aren't wrong.

ZOS, please recognize that your current gear system, which doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under CP160, discourages new players from enjoying an essential aspect of this game, permanently useful gear collection, until after CP160 is attained. On ESO Live you always talk about making the game more intuitive and welcoming for new players. Please start here.

Solutions:
- Allow items to be improved to CP160 via crafting
- Remove gear levels

Edit: Typo

Okay, I am totally confused. Really.

The current system doesn't allow players to upgrade gear under cp160. Then why am I constantly crafting gear sets for players under cp160? I've made gear at all levels pre 50, and all cp levels BEFORE 160.

I've told new players, and had guild discussions with new players where they were told improving gear to purple and gold under cp160 is not a good idea, true. Waste of tempers because you do outlevel gear quickly. In my guilds I'll make players a new set of gear every 10 levels, improved to green, for free. [Once they hit cp160 I'll still craft for free, but they have to give me the mats]. I've never said, or heard other people in my guilds tell anyone "never improve/get new gear" before cp160.

I've told new players the lower levels provide a perfect chance to try out new sets of gear to see what set/combination of sets works best for the way they want to play. Try Night mother's gaze/Hundings, Julianos/Magnus, Magnus/Seducer, Song of Lamae/vampire's kiss, or whatever, then when you do hit cp160 you won't waste the mats for a set that won't work for you.

DjMuscleboy02

Yeah please let me wear my best in slot trials gear to level, *** would be even more jokes than it already is. Let me use this gold battle scaled vma staff and burning spellweave rather than blue training seducer.

JKorr

Rev Rielle wrote: »

I think one of the best things they could do is remove the levels from equipment. The game isn't about material things, it's about experiencing the content; dungeons/quests/trials/delves etc etc. Gear is a means to an ends, nothing more. Improving that aspect of the game will only improve the majority of players' experience at they level their characters, and -more importantly- will only improve their interaction with others.

The equipment system has lagged behind with the release of One Tamriel, hopefully it will be improved.

I don't do trials. I don't do pledges, with minor exceptions; I will go play meat shield/sword fodder for guildies that need a body for a pledge; I know they have to be desperate if they ask me to go. I abhor pvp. Why would I bother continuing to play a game that forced me into doing content I don't enjoy, don't want to participate in, or outright dislike just to get gear to continue doing content I don't enjoy? Why would I continue to play a game that forced me to interact with other players I don't want to interact with in the first place?

While I know not all players who do trials/pledges/whatever are min/max fanatics who heap scorn on anyone who hasn't managed to squeeze that last .000001% of dps, I have run into those types. Nothing would "improve my interactions" with them. This is a game I play for fun/enjoyment/relaxation, as a hobby. I'm not competitive. I'm not getting paid to play this game. The gottowinsuperuberleetdemigodofdestruction mentality is something I just don't understand.

I'm at 20 characters currently, two accounts. 16 are over level 50. I quest. I do dailies. I'm still playing because I enjoy the game. Force me into content I don't like to get gear to let me do stuff I do like, and I'll leave because the fun and enjoyment will be gone.