Am I alone in disliking Naryu?

Resfeber

@Sigtric Well-said, I respect that perspective. It's a good way of looking at it.
Still can't say that makes me like her, but I do like that way of looking at her.

I think my concerns lie more with her dialogue than her actions. Being confident and boastful is usually something I like in a character. (Especially in a smart-ass) Character flaws do make good characters, don't get me wrong. But I think it's contrived and it just didn't sync with me.

Sigtric

Resfeber wrote: »

@Sigtric Well-said, I respect that perspective. It's a good way of looking at it.
Still can't say that makes me like her, but I do like that way of looking at her.

I think my concerns lie more with her dialogue than her actions. Being confident and boastful is usually something I like in a character. (Especially in a smart-ass) Character flaws do make good characters, don't get me wrong. But I think it's contrived and it just didn't sync with me.

That's the best thing about well made characters. A well made character can be liked, or disliked. Depends on personal perspectives.

Artis

Sigtric wrote: »

Resfeber wrote: »

@Sigtric Well-said, I respect that perspective. It's a good way of looking at it.
Still can't say that makes me like her, but I do like that way of looking at her.

I think my concerns lie more with her dialogue than her actions. Being confident and boastful is usually something I like in a character. (Especially in a smart-ass) Character flaws do make good characters, don't get me wrong. But I think it's contrived and it just didn't sync with me.

That's the best thing about well made characters. A well made character can be liked, or disliked. Depends on personal perspectives.

Not really defining anything. For example, Naryu is a very bad character, still some people do and some people don't like her.

Doctordarkspawn

crashen17b14_ESO wrote: »

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

I mean I get her personality grating some people but I think people throw around the term Mary Sue much too quickly. She isn't some overpowered character that everyone loves etc etc, she's an accomplished assassin who has spent likely a human's life time doing her job and getting very good at it. Also what is wrong with a sexually promiscuous character boasting of her accomplishments in that department? Besides it's hyperbolic, nobody literally seduces everyone they come across. I can get that personality trait bothering you though, but a strong confident woman isn't automatically a Mary Sue, OP.

Except she isn't an accomplished assassin who's spent a human's lifetime doing her job, she is a "a relatively new operative" who not long ago was a junior agent apprenticed to Varon Davel (when you first meet her during the Deshaan quest line). This is also written in her Meet the Character article.

As for her being a Mary Sue or not, I would argue that she absolutely IS one, or at least has very strong Sue tendencies. To quote further from the same article:

" Naryu has seen the world, from Deshaan to Eastmarch, Mournhold to the Gold Coast, she's racked up more seals on her travel documents than most of the Morag Tong in recent years. "

So, in a short time, she has risen higher than most Morag Tong.

"I'm not one to tell you what you already know, but the reports I've been privy to concerning Naryu's activities read like the adventures of Investigator Vale! Stopping a plague, saving a king, catching a relentless murderer—all the while completing each and every writ and contract assigned to her. That's impressive! Add to that her sardonic wit, her I-don't-give-a-fetch attitude, and the fact that she makes even Morag Tong leathers look good, and is it any wonder they call her “the Beautiful Darkness?"

I seriously gagged at this description - Beautiful Darkness, really? It makes her sound like some early 00's emo teen's Myspace profile name...if anyone here remembers those.

"What can we expect of Naryu Virian now that she's back in Vvardenfell? From all indications, only the best. She's a warrior without equal, capable of cleaving her way through an army of cultists or nonchalantly slipping a dagger between the ribs of a single target with relative ease. She knows more ways to disable or kill a person than even I do, and that's saying something. Poison, garrote, knife, arrow, sword, polearm, stew pot, bed sheet, hairpin, even a copy of Lord Vivec's Twenty-Fourth Sermon—she can turn even the most inoffensive bauble into a deadly weapon. I can't wait to see how she handles a writ that targets House Redoran or House Hlaalu! I expect it to be an eye-opening experience, to say the least."

Even more over-the-top descriptions meant to convince us just how totally awesome and without peer she is, a "warrior without equal" who can kill you with her little finger while seducing the breeches off you. Yes, the constant innuendo annoys me greatly, not because I have a problem with confident, even sexually promiscuous characters, but because I dislike it when they turn every other remark into an innuendo I have no choice but to accept (particularly when they're as cringeworthy as hers). Maybe my characters AREN'T attracted to her; maybe some of them aren't even into women, but I don't get the chance to express that. Everyone must love Naryu, right?

Her personality wasn't quite this abrasive in the base game, but the writers seem to have turned her into a caricature of a "sexy, dangerous assassin" in Morrowind, perhaps thinking that's what made her popular in the first place? Judging by the majority of the replies here, I guess they were right.

Sounds a hell of a lot like the player character. Except she is mortal and turning into an alcoholic to cope with the stresses of operating at that level.

The common complaint I am seeing from people is:
A. She is cocky and confident and treats the player as an equal and not a supet special snowflake, even mockingly calling them "Hero".
B. She is unrepentantly flirty and sexual and that rubs people the wrong way. It upsets people that she would dare be flirtatious and they cant say "No! That makes me uncomfortable! Stop it!"

People get so hung up on the things they dont like about her, they probably just click through the dialogue and miss the depth of character. Thats how you get people saying "she never fails" when the very quest devoted to her is about her biggest failure and how she is losing her grip on things.

She also didnt seem particularly flirty once I got into the meat of the Balmora quest. Would have been weird if she tried to *** you while she was freaking out about her apprentice/little sister surrogate was off rampaging around threatening her continued livelihood.

As for her "never doing anything herself", well that would be really boring. I would rather play the game than watch an npc do it all for me.

...Even if you leave out the' sexy assassin bit, lets be frank. I have saved the world how many god damn times now?

makerofthings

Nay, she is groovy in my books. I enjoy the reoccurring NPC's in the game.

Quantum_Knight

...Even if you leave out the' sexy assassin bit, lets be frank. I have saved the world how many god damn times now?

That sums up what I feel about the Morrowind stuff so far, especially the Telvanni quests. All these uppity mages talking down to me like I'm pond scum when I've killed Daedra, faced Daedric Princes and survived, been all over Tamriel, and oh yeah, killed Molag Bal.

I wish the game would check your achievements, and go, "oh, you have <insert achievement here>, maybe I should regard you as more than the stuff on the bottom of my shoe."

Iluvrien

Artis wrote: »

Yes, all Vvardenfell Dunmer make sense, but not Naryu. Naryu is just disgusting - she's an exaggerated caricature of herself from the original game.

Yes, but as I and others in the thead have suggested, this may well be intentional. This may be character development. She may be following a narrative path (to redemption or destruction) with this extraordinary episode as a point on that path. This extreme version of herself (or Vvardenfell Dunmer in general) may be a reaction to, or symptom of, a larger issue.

It is my hope that this is the case, that this mightn't be a case of bad writing. It is just a plot that we don't have all the details for yet. Those details may well put this episode in context. We just don't know yet.

That said, I am certainly not claiming that everyone should like her as a character, just that it might be a mistake to consider her demeanour in Morrowind to be the end of the story. People are free to like or hate her for all of the reasons that have already been posted.

Iluvrien

Quantum_Knight wrote: »

I wish the game would check your achievements, and go, "oh, you have <insert achievement here>, maybe I should regard you as more than the stuff on the bottom of my shoe."

Good luck on getting the Telvanni to do that... ever.

Quantum_Knight

Iluvrien wrote: »

Quantum_Knight wrote: »

I wish the game would check your achievements, and go, "oh, you have <insert achievement here>, maybe I should regard you as more than the stuff on the bottom of my shoe."

Good luck on getting the Telvanni to do that... ever.

Fair enough. I would have loved to be able to wipe the smug off the faces of the Magisters during Sun-in-Shadow's arc, though.

crashen17b14_ESO

Maximo3rdb14_ESO wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

If anything, the Vestige is a far bigger Mary Sue than Naryu ever will be. Sometimes, I really do sincerely hope that the player character could not only be offered more options, but at large options to fail through consequences of previous actions.

The Vestige isn't perfect, so I don't really think that's necessarily the case, and there are some quests where you don't get the outcome you may have otherwise thought you would get (like during the EP quests, if you help the woman whose family used to own slaves, where you only find out after the quest her actual intentions, or during the DC quests, if you hand over the cursed crown).

I much prefer the choices we get that aren't black and white, but ask you to make a choice that you think fits that particular protagonist. The kind of choices that Morrowind seemed to lack, from my own experience so far.

ShadowHvo wrote: »

While I still like Naryu, she also was the largest disappointment for me in Morrowind. Her presence was nice, and her story was good, but the fact that she completely ignores the fact that -she- knows the player character is a Silencer from the Dark Brotherhood itself, the very nemesis' of her organization, and yet despite this.. she proceeds to show and keep us around the Morag Tong without any issue, statement or otherwise consequences.

I do agree that the lack of acknowledgement in being a member of the Dark Brotherhood in Morag Tong territory is disappointing, although I also feel that way when you play as a Dunmer and the Morrowind expansion almost entirely ignores that you're Dunmer and that you're not canonically from outside of Morrowind like the Nerevarine was - I have characters who treat me like an outsider and who act like my Dunmer protagonist - a Hero of the Ebonheart Pact - has never even met a Dunmer before. It got really annoying really fast.

I chalk up the lack of dark brotherhood/morag tong interactions as a "if neither one of us acknowledges it, we dont have to kill each other" sort of thing. Plus I think there were some throwaway lines in Dark Brotherhood by Naryu commenting on her presence in DB territory, along the lines of "if it were anyone else, we would have an issue, as it is lets just not tell anyone." Think of it as a professional rivalry, that does not interfere with the personal relationship.

As for the Vvardenfell dunmer treating player dunmer as outsiders, well, that is a little easier to beleive. Dunmer are extemely xenophobic. Dunmer from the homeland are probably even more so. They look down on ANYONE not from Vvardenfell as an outsider. They are ultra-traditionalists, while mainland dunmer are a bit more cosmopolitan. So I figure most player dunmer come from the mainland, and also not one of the great houses.

Does kind of suck that there isnt more race/culture specific dialogue, especially after Orsinium. But I guess they didnt have the budget/time to record extra lines, same for the db vs mt rivalry and telling naryu to quit flirting with your character.

purple-magicb16_ESO

Yes

purple-magicb16_ESO

She's hot

purple-magicb16_ESO

She's hot

FrancisCrawford

Enslaved wrote: »

To be honest, out of notable NPCs, only Kurog picked up a sword and fought beside us at some point.

Somewhat overstated. Ayrenn is an obvious counterexample. So are Lyris, Sai Sahan, and Abnur Tharn.

Others are leading troops offstage, some with more success than others. (The commander at Tempest Island seems to be pretty sharp. Emeric, not so much.)

purple-magicb16_ESO

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

She's hot

...and I have a terrible internet connection at this airport.

Flameheart

She is my favorite NPC and this even more in Vvardenfell. Her Dominion counterpart can't hold a candle for her.

Vvardenfell is special, even for mainlanders. Guess that, I arrived with my Dunmer in Vvardenfell and someone called me n'wah...

medusasfolly

If there was one npc I could spend a night on the town with, I'd pick her, hands down.

Idylliqe

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

We've been friends since the Gold Coast . She kills , she tells jokes ... What's not to like ? She's not half as stuck up as most elves .

I feel the same way. I like her honestly... Every other High/Dark elf I run into, I feel as though they think that every other race belongs in the dirt and we should all bow to them.. Being a wood elf, I don't appreciate it much.

staracino_ESO

She was alright in vanilla and gold coast, but the problem is: when fans like a character too much, the writers take them and make them a ridiculous stereotype of their former selves. They follow the 'more of that thing' logic path. This is what led to Pacrooti selling us crates, and what led to Naryu being the guide/advertising for Morrowind, despite having barely any quests there. It also irks me that they used the same voice actress for Naryu. but had her do a slightly different accent. It is really obvious in the new tutorial.

Idylliqe

staracino_ESO wrote: »

She was alright in vanilla and gold coast, but the problem is: when fans like a character too much, the writers take them and make them a ridiculous stereotype of their former selves. They follow the 'more of that thing' logic path. This is what led to Pacrooti selling us crates, and what led to Naryu being the guide/advertising for Morrowind, despite having barely any quests there. It also irks me that they used the same voice actress for Naryu. but had her do a slightly different accent. It is really obvious in the new tutorial.

I didn't even notice the difference in accents. I think I'll have to do a little research.

Maximo3rdb14_ESO

crashen17b14_ESO wrote: »

I chalk up the lack of dark brotherhood/morag tong interactions as a "if neither one of us acknowledges it, we dont have to kill each other" sort of thing. Plus I think there were some throwaway lines in Dark Brotherhood by Naryu commenting on her presence in DB territory, along the lines of "if it were anyone else, we would have an issue, as it is lets just not tell anyone." Think of it as a professional rivalry, that does not interfere with the personal relationship.

I can understand that coming from Naryu, but I'd presume some of the Morag Tong would be privy to the character having ties to the Dark Brotherhood (there was a bit of dialogue about the Dark Brotherhood having trouble establishing itself on Vvardenfell, if I recall one of the DB dialogues correctly, so that could be a source of concern for some that this character is trying to rectify that).

crashen17b14_ESO wrote: »

As for the Vvardenfell dunmer treating player dunmer as outsiders, well, that is a little easier to beleive. Dunmer are extemely xenophobic. Dunmer from the homeland are probably even more so. They look down on ANYONE not from Vvardenfell as an outsider. They are ultra-traditionalists, while mainland dunmer are a bit more cosmopolitan. So I figure most player dunmer come from the mainland, and also not one of the great houses.

I'm not sure I'd consider them more 'cosmopolitan'. It's not like there's some extreme difference between the Dunmer from Vvardenfell and the Dunmer from the mainland. It's not like the Great Houses don't exist in both the mainland and Vvardenfell (which makes the idea of people referring to my Dunmer character as 'Outlander' even more ridiculous because, unlike Morrowind (the game) there's no actual regional difference to explain anyone using the term on a Dunmer protagonist). It's not like the ideological divide in Hammerfell where there are two groups who follow different gods; the Dunmer follow the same beliefs in both Vvardenfell and the mainland, have the same Great Houses (and presumably some minor Houses may have presence on Vvardenfell as well, so even that doesn't really become a factor - especially in light of earning the favor of some members of the Great Houses during the EP storyline, which is also effectively ignored even by members of Houses who are part of the Pact).

crashen17b14_ESO wrote: »

Does kind of suck that there isnt more race/culture specific dialogue, especially after Orsinium. But I guess they didnt have the budget/time to record extra lines, same for the db vs mt rivalry and telling naryu to quit flirting with your character.

I don't think it's really all that expensive to have some acknowledgement - a few lines of properly addressing your character, like in Orsinium. Frankly, it feels lazy when I have characters treating my Dunmer the exact same way they would treat an Orc or a Khajiit - and lazier still when I have characters talking about the Dunmer as if my character knows nothing about them even when he's one of the Dunmer (I believe Naryu gives such a line, which came across as weird considering I was playing as a Dunmer). Every time it happens, it takes me out of the experience. I'd probably enjoy Morrowind if there wasn't this constant reminder that the developers simply never bothered to properly acknowledge your Dunmer being in Vvardenfell.

Artis

Iluvrien wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Yes, all Vvardenfell Dunmer make sense, but not Naryu. Naryu is just disgusting - she's an exaggerated caricature of herself from the original game.

Yes, but as I and others in the thead have suggested, this may well be intentional. This may be character development. She may be following a narrative path (to redemption or destruction) with this extraordinary episode as a point on that path. This extreme version of herself (or Vvardenfell Dunmer in general) may be a reaction to, or symptom of, a larger issue.

It is my hope that this is the case, that this mightn't be a case of bad writing. It is just a plot that we don't have all the details for yet. Those details may well put this episode in context. We just don't know yet.

That said, I am certainly not claiming that everyone should like her as a character, just that it might be a mistake to consider her demeanour in Morrowind to be the end of the story. People are free to like or hate her for all of the reasons that have already been posted.

Oh it was intentional by all means. Obviously, all her lines were written and not by accident. And I do really hope that we get to punish her for her words and just like you say that's all following there.

But being realistic, I don't think that's the case. They just wanted to have a female character who's like that to send a message that the game is not about stereotypes and in your face - we have a strong independent woman right here. Ew. I'm 90% sure that's what they tried to do and just didn't know when to stop.

Then again, there's Ashur who is the same thing.

Anyway, there are reasons to dislike them and quite a lot of us do. I just hope we had more choice and didn't have to team up with all characters devs tells us to team up with.

Let's hope it's not the end and we will kill her later. But tbh I hope she won't be in the next few expansions. I'd rather see Jakarn and other pirates, Darien, Dunmeri brother and sister who delve dwemer ruins, etc.

P.S. And wtf was that thing the first time we meet Naryu? She stands on top of that river that is going right out of the room where the quest boss was hiding (we then exit the cave using that river after we watch her kill the NPC). Yet, after going around the cave we meet her on the way to that room OUTSIDE the room and have to fight our way inside. WTF.

Osteos

I'm curious. Naryu repeated says she needs a sanctioned writ in order to kill someone. She also repeatedly threatens to kill you if you cross her. Does she only need a writ to kill a Dunmer or does it cover us as well. I would think since we have been hired by a high ranking Redoran to find his daughter that she would not be able to willfully kill us without a writ, making her remarks nothing but hot air.

Hallothiel

To those wanting acknowledgement of their past achievements - finally took my main to Morrowind & npcs did make random comments about what I had done on the mainland, so it can happen.

And someone has mentioned Ashur. Did like him. A lot.

Idylliqe

Osteos wrote: »

I'm curious. Naryu repeated says she needs a sanctioned writ in order to kill someone. She also repeatedly threatens to kill you if you cross her. Does she only need a writ to kill a Dunmer or does it cover us as well. I would think since we have been hired by a high ranking Redoran to find his daughter that she would not be able to willfully kill us without a writ, making her remarks nothing but hot air.

I think she's all talk. As much as I'm actually fond of her, she's all talk. Who would do all of her work for her?

Wreuntzylla

Pallmor wrote: »

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

Lyris is a much better portrayal of a strong, confident woman.

^^A thousand times this! I would have much rather seen Lyris again in Morrowind than that cocky elf who won't stop talking about everyone she has killed but always seems to need me to do all the killing for her.

Naryu's specialty seems to be begging other people to do her work for her. Lyris, by contrast, doesn't brag and will go along and fight beside you. Give me Lyris any day over Naryu!

Um, well, there is this small problem relating to the end of the main story line...

Hallothiel

Idylliqe wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

I'm curious. Naryu repeated says she needs a sanctioned writ in order to kill someone. She also repeatedly threatens to kill you if you cross her. Does she only need a writ to kill a Dunmer or does it cover us as well. I would think since we have been hired by a high ranking Redoran to find his daughter that she would not be able to willfully kill us without a writ, making her remarks nothing but hot air.

I think she's all talk. As much as I'm actually fond of her, she's all talk. Who would do all of her work for her?

I accidentally* killed some guards when meant to be sneaking and she got well stroppy with me.

*when playing as a warden, don't try and sneak with the bear active.

Idylliqe

Hallothiel wrote: »

Idylliqe wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

I'm curious. Naryu repeated says she needs a sanctioned writ in order to kill someone. She also repeatedly threatens to kill you if you cross her. Does she only need a writ to kill a Dunmer or does it cover us as well. I would think since we have been hired by a high ranking Redoran to find his daughter that she would not be able to willfully kill us without a writ, making her remarks nothing but hot air.

I think she's all talk. As much as I'm actually fond of her, she's all talk. Who would do all of her work for her?

I accidentally* killed some guards when meant to be sneaking and she got well stroppy with me.

*when playing as a warden, don't try and sneak with the bear active.

She does have one heck of an attitude

SydneyGrey

I like her. She's an interesting character. Her takes-no-crap-from-anybody attitude reminds me of my grandmother, actually, which is probably a weird thing to say. LOL!
... Except she didn't kill people, and was less likely to insult people.
Yes, I had an awesome grandmother.

Enodoc

Osteos wrote: »

I'm curious. Naryu repeated says she needs a sanctioned writ in order to kill someone. She also repeatedly threatens to kill you if you cross her. Does she only need a writ to kill a Dunmer or does it cover us as well. I would think since we have been hired by a high ranking Redoran to find his daughter that she would not be able to willfully kill us without a writ, making her remarks nothing but hot air.

She probably would/could kill you, but she would need a writ for it to be legal, otherwise it's just the same as any other murder.