Am I alone in disliking Naryu?

Iccotak

"Why are you flirting with me? I am an Argonian. Have you forgotten how your kind enslaved my people?
I find your mere existence offensive. You serve the Morag Tong, why should I not send word to have the Dark Brotherhood kill you right now?"

crashen17b14_ESO

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

I mean I get her personality grating some people but I think people throw around the term Mary Sue much too quickly. She isn't some overpowered character that everyone loves etc etc, she's an accomplished assassin who has spent likely a human's life time doing her job and getting very good at it. Also what is wrong with a sexually promiscuous character boasting of her accomplishments in that department? Besides it's hyperbolic, nobody literally seduces everyone they come across. I can get that personality trait bothering you though, but a strong confident woman isn't automatically a Mary Sue, OP.

Except she isn't an accomplished assassin who's spent a human's lifetime doing her job, she is a "a relatively new operative" who not long ago was a junior agent apprenticed to Varon Davel (when you first meet her during the Deshaan quest line). This is also written in her Meet the Character article.

As for her being a Mary Sue or not, I would argue that she absolutely IS one, or at least has very strong Sue tendencies. To quote further from the same article:

" Naryu has seen the world, from Deshaan to Eastmarch, Mournhold to the Gold Coast, she's racked up more seals on her travel documents than most of the Morag Tong in recent years. "

So, in a short time, she has risen higher than most Morag Tong.

"I'm not one to tell you what you already know, but the reports I've been privy to concerning Naryu's activities read like the adventures of Investigator Vale! Stopping a plague, saving a king, catching a relentless murderer—all the while completing each and every writ and contract assigned to her. That's impressive! Add to that her sardonic wit, her I-don't-give-a-fetch attitude, and the fact that she makes even Morag Tong leathers look good, and is it any wonder they call her “the Beautiful Darkness?"

I seriously gagged at this description - Beautiful Darkness, really? It makes her sound like some early 00's emo teen's Myspace profile name...if anyone here remembers those.

"What can we expect of Naryu Virian now that she's back in Vvardenfell? From all indications, only the best. She's a warrior without equal, capable of cleaving her way through an army of cultists or nonchalantly slipping a dagger between the ribs of a single target with relative ease. She knows more ways to disable or kill a person than even I do, and that's saying something. Poison, garrote, knife, arrow, sword, polearm, stew pot, bed sheet, hairpin, even a copy of Lord Vivec's Twenty-Fourth Sermon—she can turn even the most inoffensive bauble into a deadly weapon. I can't wait to see how she handles a writ that targets House Redoran or House Hlaalu! I expect it to be an eye-opening experience, to say the least."

Even more over-the-top descriptions meant to convince us just how totally awesome and without peer she is, a "warrior without equal" who can kill you with her little finger while seducing the breeches off you. Yes, the constant innuendo annoys me greatly, not because I have a problem with confident, even sexually promiscuous characters, but because I dislike it when they turn every other remark into an innuendo I have no choice but to accept (particularly when they're as cringeworthy as hers). Maybe my characters AREN'T attracted to her; maybe some of them aren't even into women, but I don't get the chance to express that. Everyone must love Naryu, right?

Her personality wasn't quite this abrasive in the base game, but the writers seem to have turned her into a caricature of a "sexy, dangerous assassin" in Morrowind, perhaps thinking that's what made her popular in the first place? Judging by the majority of the replies here, I guess they were right.

Sounds a hell of a lot like the player character. Except she is mortal and turning into an alcoholic to cope with the stresses of operating at that level.

The common complaint I am seeing from people is:
A. She is cocky and confident and treats the player as an equal and not a supet special snowflake, even mockingly calling them "Hero".
B. She is unrepentantly flirty and sexual and that rubs people the wrong way. It upsets people that she would dare be flirtatious and they cant say "No! That makes me uncomfortable! Stop it!"

People get so hung up on the things they dont like about her, they probably just click through the dialogue and miss the depth of character. Thats how you get people saying "she never fails" when the very quest devoted to her is about her biggest failure and how she is losing her grip on things.

She also didnt seem particularly flirty once I got into the meat of the Balmora quest. Would have been weird if she tried to *** you while she was freaking out about her apprentice/little sister surrogate was off rampaging around threatening her continued livelihood.

As for her "never doing anything herself", well that would be really boring. I would rather play the game than watch an npc do it all for me.

rotaugen454

I liked her questline,she's all flirty and bragging because she's trying to convince herself that everything is ok. The depths of melancholy at the end reveals a lot about her. I hope to run into the more bitter and cynical version again some day.

Ghanima_Atreides

crashen17b14_ESO wrote: »

Sounds a hell of a lot like the player character. Except she is mortal and turning into an alcoholic to cope with the stresses of operating at that level.

She's turning into an alcoholic? I must admit I missed that.

The common complaint I am seeing from people is:
A. She is cocky and confident and treats the player as an equal and not a supet special snowflake, even mockingly calling them "Hero".
B. She is unrepentantly flirty and sexual and that rubs people the wrong way. It upsets people that she would dare be flirtatious and they cant say "No! That makes me uncomfortable! Stop it!"

A. But she doesn't treat you as an equal. I wouldn't mind that, nor do I require her to treat my characters as super special snowflakes either. I'd just prefer it if she didn't treat them as bumbling idiots, especially when we're doing all the hard work. The "hero" stuff especially is getting really old.

B. Well, yes, that does rub me the wrong way, because it implies she's right about my character's feelings towards her even if she isn't (I am not asking the ability to flirt with her to be taken away, I might even have one or two characters who would go there, just not for ALL characters to be automatically assumed to have the hots for her). Being flirtatious is fine, relentlessly inserting innuendos in every other conversation is annoying.

People get so hung up on the things they dont like about her, they probably just click through the dialogue and miss the depth of character. Thats how you get people saying "she never fails" when the very quest devoted to her is about her biggest failure and how she is losing her grip on things.

Actually I listen to all dialogue the first time I play a quest. Yes, I will admit her failiure in that quest was the one thing that broke the "flawless Naryu" pattern, but that doesn't cancel out the way she is presented the rest of the time. A character can be portrayed as powerful, confident, badass etc. without it being constantly shouted out. Lyris is a much better portrayal of a strong, confident woman.

She also didnt seem particularly flirty once I got into the meat of the Balmora quest. Would have been weird if she tried to *** you while she was freaking out about her apprentice/little sister surrogate was off rampaging around threatening her continued livelihood.

Right at the very end when you meet her and her apprentice at the docks (after the quest ended) she makes a comment along the lines of "I knew you couldn't get enough, hero" and literally points out how sexy she is (in her own words). Just in case we'd forgotten.

ShedsHisTail

adriant1978 wrote: »

OK, I'm probably going to get some flames for this, but I think Naryu Virian is a colossal Mary Sue whose every action seems designed to advertise her own awesomeness, while making our characters look like blundering idiots. Does this woman ever fail? Is there nothing she can't do? Nobody she can't get into bed? She was mildly annoying in her original base game quests, but Morrowind has taken her to a whole new level of over-the-top. I mean, "Mother of Blades", really?

I also can't stand the way the dialogue is written to force the idea of sexual tension with our characters. I'm not interested, and I wish there was the option to tell her as much.

Anyone else with me, or a I alone in not being a fully paid up member of the Naryu fan club?

I like Naryu, but something happened to her character which kinda bugs me.

When I first met her, during the quest lines in Deshaan(?) I got the impression that she was sort of a neophyte to this whole contract killing thing. Just starting out, trying to build a reputation for herself... So I could relate to her in that way, because that's what I was doing at the time; just getting started, learning the lay of the land and what not.

And yeah, like the OP said, suddenly in Vvardenfell we're talking about the "Mother of Blades" (a title she dislikes), and she's this badass assassin who is training other assassins and... It just doesn't really make sense.

It's interesting though that it still runs parallel to my own story. Here I am saying that it doesn't make sense that her reputation has grown to such a degree in so short a time when, really, so has mine; I defeated Molag Bal, after all. I, too, have gone from blundering apprentice to conquering hero, and I think that' kind of what makes it grating.

Neither of us are just figuring things out anymore. We've got methods and experience and egos, and they clash. Where she used to be coy and tentative, now she's forthright and assertive. When she tells me what to do it's no longer a request, it's an order; and I've got my own problems, lady.

I dunno, maybe it would make more sense if we'd seen more of that growth with her. More than just a cameo on the Gold Coast. Get a better idea of how she went from what she was to what she is...

Ultimately, I still like Naryu. We just don't see eye to eye on things anymore.

Or, OR! I might be reading too much into this.

Wreuntzylla

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

A Mary Sue is a character that is the epitome of innocence and can do no wrong. Naryu is the embodiment of wrong. She's the Morag Tong's head honcho of Contract Killing and she does it without remorse. If your name happens on a piece of paper, she'll put a knife in your throat without hesitation.

Besides she's not all that. Don't you spend a large amount of time during the Deshaan questline doing all the work for her?

Yep. Would do it again.

So wrong. And yet, so right.

You spend large amounts of time doing all the work for Amalexia,

Naryu mostly just provides you information. There are a couple of points where she tries to get you to do her skut work, but if you have the mage guild persuasion passive, you make her do it.

She is one of the best characters in the game up until Morrowind. I can't speak to what she's like in Morrowind as I haven't bothered with much of the quest line yet.

Turelus wrote: »

Her need to make everything innuendo and flirt with everything makes me cringe a little, as you said I am also a little annoyed there is no way to make your characters not interested in her.

When I first met Naryu I am already a legend in my own time and Argonian. In other words, devastatingly handsome and powerful. It would be wrong if more than a handful of non-daedric prince NPCs don't (1) fear you; (2) hate you; or (3) have a fatalistic attraction. Plus, since every NPC flirted with my Argonian, it would have been odd for Naryu not to. Similarly, if anyone didn't hate my high elf, that would have been odd.

dodgehopper_ESO

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

crashen17b14_ESO wrote: »

Sounds a hell of a lot like the player character. Except she is mortal and turning into an alcoholic to cope with the stresses of operating at that level.

She's turning into an alcoholic? I must admit I missed that.

The common complaint I am seeing from people is:
A. She is cocky and confident and treats the player as an equal and not a supet special snowflake, even mockingly calling them "Hero".
B. She is unrepentantly flirty and sexual and that rubs people the wrong way. It upsets people that she would dare be flirtatious and they cant say "No! That makes me uncomfortable! Stop it!"

A. But she doesn't treat you as an equal. I wouldn't mind that, nor do I require her to treat my characters as super special snowflakes either. I'd just prefer it if she didn't treat them as bumbling idiots, especially when we're doing all the hard work. The "hero" stuff especially is getting really old.

B. Well, yes, that does rub me the wrong way, because it implies she's right about my character's feelings towards her even if she isn't (I am not asking the ability to flirt with her to be taken away, I might even have one or two characters who would go there, just not for ALL characters to be automatically assumed to have the hots for her). Being flirtatious is fine, relentlessly inserting innuendos in every other conversation is annoying.

People get so hung up on the things they dont like about her, they probably just click through the dialogue and miss the depth of character. Thats how you get people saying "she never fails" when the very quest devoted to her is about her biggest failure and how she is losing her grip on things.

Actually I listen to all dialogue the first time I play a quest. Yes, I will admit her failiure in that quest was the one thing that broke the "flawless Naryu" pattern, but that doesn't cancel out the way she is presented the rest of the time. A character can be portrayed as powerful, confident, badass etc. without it being constantly shouted out. Lyris is a much better portrayal of a strong, confident woman.

She also didnt seem particularly flirty once I got into the meat of the Balmora quest. Would have been weird if she tried to *** you while she was freaking out about her apprentice/little sister surrogate was off rampaging around threatening her continued livelihood.

Right at the very end when you meet her and her apprentice at the docks (after the quest ended) she makes a comment along the lines of "I knew you couldn't get enough, hero" and literally points out how sexy she is (in her own words). Just in case we'd forgotten.

That point about being a strong female is a good one. There are stronger individuals like Ayrenn who do not demand sexual attention at all moments. Strength doesn't point out that you're a woman all the time and that you have lusts. All of that being said I'd say it fits a servant of Mephala - but I wouldn't call that strength, I'd call that Dunmer stupidity and moral reprehensibleness. There's a reason that elves don't belong on the ruby throne generally (they are creepy).

CherryCake

Meh.

ObsidianMichi

Turelus wrote: »

Fair points and I will concede on it. I guess I have used Mary Sue as a far more broad meaning in this case and it wasn't deserved (yes everyone someone just admitted they were wrong on the internet, the end times are coming.)

Also re the part about "female character I don't like" I've always applied it to male and female. I've always considered Drizzt a Mary Sue although again my use would probably not be correct under your breakdown above.

+1 insightful.

Oh, Drizzt is absolutely a wish fulfillment character and a special snowflake who rides the line pretty close. He is definitely an author's pet, and defies the DnD rules. He's also a character built for self-insertion on part of the reader.

All in all, Mary Sues can be very difficult to spot because the online definitions (even the good ones) tend to go with the surface level issues rather than the underlying mechanical ones. It's even more difficult when they are the narrative's protagonist as protagonists tend to receive special treatment anyway. This is where the bias problem comes in because once we have a character we don't like, a lot of the Mary Sue qualifications start to fit.

What you're really looking for with a Sue is a character whose presence negates conflict within the narrative, usually without them actually doing anything at all. They're not story participants, so much as the story happens around them. They bog down the narrative. or when they're around problems solve themselves too quickly. This is why they're much easier to find in fanfiction than general fiction because we can easily find examples of the other characters behaving in ways that are out of character and fanfiction itself is often a trial ground for young/inexperienced writers still learning how to create characters.

Conflict negation is the key though, which denies the tension or activity necessary to push the story forward or solves it too easily so the audience is denied, well, the story itself.

Pallmor

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

Lyris is a much better portrayal of a strong, confident woman.

^^A thousand times this! I would have much rather seen Lyris again in Morrowind than that cocky elf who won't stop talking about everyone she has killed but always seems to need me to do all the killing for her.

Naryu's specialty seems to be begging other people to do her work for her. Lyris, by contrast, doesn't brag and will go along and fight beside you. Give me Lyris any day over Naryu!

KingJ

I like her.

ParaNostram

If she's a Mary Sue then so are Mannimarco and Vanus Galerion. What? You don't think of them as Mary Sue's? Why? They're both abnormally gifted students of the Psijic Order, Vanus even coming from the background of a slave to being the most promising student they had ever seen.

I'll tell you what they are and what Naryu is, they're exceptional characters. You see, exceptional characters are individuals out there that stand out and give you something to compare progressing characters to in order to make progression feel like something special. But whatever tired of seeing mary sue threads never see them pop up for male characters but that's none of my business.

MLGProPlayer

Hopefully we get a charismatic male character to help out in the next major chapter. Orsinium was Eveli and Morrowind was Naryu. I get it, sex sells, but let's diversify things a bit.

Pallmor

Turelus wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

A Mary Sue is a character that is the epitome of innocence and can do no wrong. Naryu is the embodiment of wrong. She's the Morag Tong's head honcho of Contract Killing and she does it without remorse. If your name happens on a piece of paper, she'll put a knife in your throat without hesitation.

Besides she's not all that. Don't you spend a large amount of time during the Deshaan questline doing all the work for her?

That's not ever been the definition of Mary Sue I have known. I've always gone off what's on the Mary Sue test site.
http://www.springhole.net/writing/whatisamarysue.htm

It would be interesting for someone to run her through that test, but I feel you would have to have a much firmer knowledge of her story than I do.

Actually, that site has a terrible definition of a Mary Sue. Put simply, a Mary Sue is a character who is flawless, knows everything about everything, can do anything better than anyone, never makes mistakes or needs anyone's help, and is adored by all. The term was coined based on some awful Star Trek fanfic about a 15-year-old girl who was a better captain than Kirk, more logical and knowledgeable than Spock, a better physician than McCoy, and a better engineer than Scotty--all of whom thought she was just awesome, of course.

Rey in Star Wars is a textbook example. She is flawless, can repair and fly the Millennium Falcon better than Han Solo, can win a lightsaber fight against a trained Jedi even with no training herself, never needs anyone's help, never makes mistakes, and is instantly trusted by everyone she meets.

And no, Naryu, for all her flaws is not a Mary Sue. She is shown to make mistakes in the Balmora questline and definitely needs constant help from the player character on her missions. She may see HERSELF as a Mary Sue, though. But in truth, she's just arrogant.

Iluvrien

Pallmor wrote: »

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

Lyris is a much better portrayal of a strong, confident woman.

^^A thousand times this! I would have much rather seen Lyris again in Morrowind than that cocky elf who won't stop talking about everyone she has killed but always seems to need me to do all the killing for her.

Naryu's specialty seems to be begging other people to do her work for her. Lyris, by contrast, doesn't brag and will go along and fight beside you. Give me Lyris any day over Naryu!

So, Lyris mostly fitting into the stereotype for a "Nord woman" is acceptable, but Naryu mostly fitting into the stereotype for a "Dunmeri woman" isn't.

Interesting.

That said, I would prefer it if Naryu was available as a companion for some of the quests that she sends you on. I can understand the mental processes behind not doing it, but it would give a chance for more interesting storytelling.

dodgehopper_ESO

Iluvrien wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

Lyris is a much better portrayal of a strong, confident woman.

^^A thousand times this! I would have much rather seen Lyris again in Morrowind than that cocky elf who won't stop talking about everyone she has killed but always seems to need me to do all the killing for her.

Naryu's specialty seems to be begging other people to do her work for her. Lyris, by contrast, doesn't brag and will go along and fight beside you. Give me Lyris any day over Naryu!

So, Lyris mostly fitting into the stereotype for a "Nord woman" is acceptable, but Naryu mostly fitting into the stereotype for a "Dunmeri woman" isn't.

Interesting.

That said, I would prefer it if Naryu was available as a companion for some of the quests that she sends you on. I can understand the mental processes behind not doing it, but it would give a chance for more interesting storytelling.

Yes because Nords > Dunmer. Its a known fact.

Belegnole

I find that Naryu is one great character whether you like her or not. She elicits emotions from the players and that is a big thing. Her behavior doesn't surprise me and from our world's perspective I can see why some would find the character disturbing. I mean having a somewhat psychopathic, amoral, killer who seams proud of it flirt and get suggestive with you...

I have one toon who would jump on it.....lol

Bouldercleave

I wish they had MORE MPCs with as much depth and personality. Not everyone should be a damsel in distress. She flirts and is confident -

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

Lyris is a much better portrayal of a strong, confident woman.

^^A thousand times this! I would have much rather seen Lyris again in Morrowind than that cocky elf who won't stop talking about everyone she has killed but always seems to need me to do all the killing for her.

Naryu's specialty seems to be begging other people to do her work for her. Lyris, by contrast, doesn't brag and will go along and fight beside you. Give me Lyris any day over Naryu!

So, Lyris mostly fitting into the stereotype for a "Nord woman" is acceptable, but Naryu mostly fitting into the stereotype for a "Dunmeri woman" isn't.

Interesting.

That said, I would prefer it if Naryu was available as a companion for some of the quests that she sends you on. I can understand the mental processes behind not doing it, but it would give a chance for more interesting storytelling.

Yes because Nords > Dunmer. Its a known fact.

Facts are generally not tolerated here on the forums.

dodgehopper_ESO

Bouldercleave wrote: »

I wish they had MORE MPCs with as much depth and personality. Not everyone should be a damsel in distress. She flirts and is confident -

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

Lyris is a much better portrayal of a strong, confident woman.

^^A thousand times this! I would have much rather seen Lyris again in Morrowind than that cocky elf who won't stop talking about everyone she has killed but always seems to need me to do all the killing for her.

Naryu's specialty seems to be begging other people to do her work for her. Lyris, by contrast, doesn't brag and will go along and fight beside you. Give me Lyris any day over Naryu!

So, Lyris mostly fitting into the stereotype for a "Nord woman" is acceptable, but Naryu mostly fitting into the stereotype for a "Dunmeri woman" isn't.

Interesting.

That said, I would prefer it if Naryu was available as a companion for some of the quests that she sends you on. I can understand the mental processes behind not doing it, but it would give a chance for more interesting storytelling.

Yes because Nords > Dunmer. Its a known fact.

Facts are generally not tolerated here on the forums.

You need to read more lorebooks. Please read in particular: Dark Elves, Dark Hearts by Bakozog gro-Shakh. If it makes you feel any better Orcs > Dunmer too. :P Orc culture is rather noble actually though a bit harsh I admit, they hold to honor and honesty.

Let us also not forgot the Velothi heretics who followed Boethiah, Mephala and Azurah to Morrowind. Let us also not forget the followers of Almsivi who likewise believe in similar (though softened traditions of worship). The Dunmer way of life is savage albeit decked with beautiful art and architecture. They are a disturbing people who revel in ***, theft, murder, *** and lies as ideals to live by. There are good Dunmer of course but they follow the 8 and have abandoned their despicable Velothi/Almsivi ways.

My distaste with Naryu is not that she is a woman but that she follows the Old Velothi ways and serves Mephala. It certainly explains the way she acts, and the better part of her nature is fighting it out, its actually rather clear. The storytelling with her is actually decent because of this fact and I enjoy the inner turmoil, but it is rather clear to me that Dunmer culture is horrible and toxic even to the Dunmer (perhaps even moreso than Orc culture to the Orcs). One can appreciate the beauty in Dunmer society while also recognizing it as a horrific society (which I might add it was intended to be by the writers). Vivec's dream actually is to reshape the Dunmer toward a better path, despite this being a heresy to the Velothi ashlanders.

I have said for a long time that Elves represent the 'alien' society of Tamriel. They represent something which is alien to human sensibilities as a whole. They are 'too much' of this or that. This is actually often represented in pop culture as well with characters like Spock in Star Trek. In my view this adds intrigue to the series but one could hardly call the Dunmeri culture 'good' overall. Interesting yes, but good would be a ridiculous stretch.

Ayrenn represents the best of elf culture and there are of course others like her. She's what is likeable in the elven world and this is why you should join the AD if you're an elf of any stripe - obviously.

Edit: P.S.: Notice how Dunmer society ideals get bleeped out while you type them. That should tell you something.

Artis

Iluvrien wrote: »

So, Lyris mostly fitting into the stereotype for a "Nord woman" is acceptable, but Naryu mostly fitting into the stereotype for a "Dunmeri woman" isn't.

Interesting.

That said, I would prefer it if Naryu was available as a companion for some of the quests that she sends you on. I can understand the mental processes behind not doing it, but it would give a chance for more interesting storytelling.

She is NOT fitting a stereotype of a dunmeri woman, though, and that's the thing. She's the only dunmeri woman like that. Just talk to any other NPC and see for yourself. Moreover, she wasn't like that before Morrowind.

Also, there are no stereotypes for nord, dunmeri or other women. Where do you even get it from? There are no books about women of different races or anything of a sort in the game.

Btw, no one said a word about stereotypes or nord women. He just said - and correctly - that she is a much better portrayal of a strong woman. It's not even the only example.There are tons of other women in game that portray strong woman much much better AND much more realistically than Naryu: captrains Lerissa and Kayleen from stros mkai, Queen Ayrenn, Any female Telvanni Magister or Mouth that we meet, all females of Thieves Guild, Sees-all-colors and even Aelif, and many many more including some HIRELINGS who we don't even see.

Naryu became terrible. Won't be surprised if in the next DLC she will have blue wild locks and complain that female characters are under-represented in trial groups.

adriant1978

A big part of the problem, of course, is that Naryu is being marketed as one of the selling points of the expansion. Someone obviously realised that she was a popular character, and to be honest while I didn't much care for her in the base game I can understand why many did like her, and decided to go heavy on the fanservice with her.

dodgehopper_ESO

Artis wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

So, Lyris mostly fitting into the stereotype for a "Nord woman" is acceptable, but Naryu mostly fitting into the stereotype for a "Dunmeri woman" isn't.

Interesting.

That said, I would prefer it if Naryu was available as a companion for some of the quests that she sends you on. I can understand the mental processes behind not doing it, but it would give a chance for more interesting storytelling.

She is NOT fitting a stereotype of a dunmeri woman, though, and that's the thing. She's the only dunmeri woman like that. Just talk to any other NPC and see for yourself. Moreover, she wasn't like that before Morrowind.

Also, there are no stereotypes for nord, dunmeri or other women. Where do you even get it from? There are no books about women of different races or anything of a sort in the game.

Btw, no one said a word about stereotypes or nord women. He just said - and correctly - that she is a much better portrayal of a strong woman. It's not even the only example.There are tons of other women in game that portray strong woman much much better AND much more realistically than Naryu: captrains Lerissa and Kayleen from stros mkai, Queen Ayrenn, Any female Telvanni Magister or Mouth that we meet, all females of Thieves Guild, Sees-all-colors and even Aelif, and many many more including some HIRELINGS who we don't even see.

Naryu became terrible. Won't be surprised if in the next DLC she will have blue wild locks and complain that female characters are under-represented in trial groups.

In terms of feminine strength of the like I have to say I'm not particularly impressed when masculine power is overplayed as well. Darien pushed the line for certain, but they toned him down thankfully. The problem with naryu is that they play her up a little bit. Again though it fits Morag Tong.

zyk

I liked the old Naryu better than the new one. Since TG, I have found the dialogue in ESO to be a bit cheesy and overacted.

adriant1978

ParaNostram wrote: »

If she's a Mary Sue then so are Mannimarco and Vanus Galerion. What? You don't think of them as Mary Sue's? Why? They're both abnormally gifted students of the Psijic Order, Vanus even coming from the background of a slave to being the most promising student they had ever seen.

Vanus as written about in various books could be considered a Marty Stu, but I got the impression that his in-game portrayal was more of a tongue-in-cheek caricature of the pompous Altmer mage stereotype. Yes, he was full of himself but the game made sure to show us the consequences of his folly:

He arrogantly believes that he can complete the quest to destroy the Great Shackle alone, promptly gets captured, and the player has to clean up his mess. He chastises the player for reversing the energy flow, then quickly praises then for it when he realises it was the right thing to do. He shoos away Lyranth, who the player then has to follow up and get useful information from.

During the finale of one quest he even tells the player to defend him while he casts an "extremely complex and fantastically impressive spell". I really think that was meant to have an element of satire about it. If you want a good example of a Marty Stu from the same part of the game, I'd go with King Laloriaran Dynar.

Vicarra

Faulgor wrote: »

I can't stand her snooty voice and attitude. I hope we have seen the last of her.
The constant sexual innuendo also gets on my nerves. I hate the overabundance of the word "cringe", but that's what I felt during her last lines in the Balmora questline.

But then I also don't like Malukah, so I'm a barrel of unpopular opinions.

I couldn't agree more. I get a lot of side-eye and accusations of jealousy for saying aloud that I don't like Malukah's interpretation of the songs, or her voice. I find her dull and uninteresting and all the bard songs she did sound the same. Depressing dirges with no variety. I suspect that if she were not pretty, people wouldn't find her so enthralling.

Naryu irritates the heck out of me. I don't like her as a character, my character would never be interested in her so in my head I have to RP that she's just an annoying narcissist who flirts with everyone whether they like her or not because she -thinks- they like her. We've all met people like that.

You know which badass dunmer woman I would have preferred to see again? Velsa. Velsa the unavailable. Velsa the acerbic. Velsa the disdainful. She has more character in her pinky finger than the generic and self-aggrandising Naryu-Sue.

HEXENWOLF

ParaNostram wrote: »

If she's a Mary Sue then so are Mannimarco and Vanus Galerion. What? You don't think of them as Mary Sue's? Why? They're both abnormally gifted students of the Psijic Order, Vanus even coming from the background of a slave to being the most promising student they had ever seen.

I'll tell you what they are and what Naryu is, they're exceptional characters. You see, exceptional characters are individuals out there that stand out and give you something to compare progressing characters to in order to make progression feel like something special. But whatever tired of seeing mary sue threads never see them pop up for male characters but that's none of my business.

Yes!!! 1000 times, yes.

altemriel

she is ok, just as many dark elves, grumpy

Bam_Bam

She needs a kick in the minge tbf

Nova Sky

rotaugen454 wrote: »

I liked her questline,she's all flirty and bragging because she's trying to convince herself that everything is ok. The depths of melancholy at the end reveals a lot about her. I hope to run into the more bitter and cynical version again some day.

This sums up my feelings as well. At the end of her quest line, there's no question that she's imperfect — and she's painfully aware of that fact.

ShadowHvo

SantieClaws wrote: »

We all hope that someday in another part of Tamriel we find Eoki living happy and free

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Happy and free..?

Last time I checked, Suns-In-Shadow sent Eoki to work for Magister Gothren after his now third (Or fourth?) escape attempt.

To the topic of Naryu though, honestly.. I still like her, even though her presence in Morrowind felt lackluster at best. I would most definitely never call her a Mary Sue, for she fails a lot, and I most certainly hope that she will continue to fail.

If anything, the Vestige is a far bigger Mary Sue than Naryu ever will be. Sometimes, I really do sincerely hope that the player character could not only be offered more options, but at large options to fail through consequences of previous actions.

While I still like Naryu, she also was the largest disappointment for me in Morrowind. Her presence was nice, and her story was good, but the fact that she completely ignores the fact that -she- knows the player character is a Silencer from the Dark Brotherhood itself, the very nemesis' of her organization, and yet despite this.. she proceeds to show and keep us around the Morag Tong without any issue, statement or otherwise consequences.