Am I alone in disliking Naryu?

JWKe

She reminds me of red eyes black dragon. Urgh i disliked that card so much.

elantaura

I dislike her too, always found her annoying at best. I never liked her in the pact story, and disliked her in DB. It does reinforce being in the dark brotherhood, makes me glad I'm not in Morag Tong
On that note I find Elam Drals hilarious and probably my fave npc in the game. I think he can't stand her either so joined DB not MT

Forsakiin

Turelus wrote: »

Forsakiin wrote: »

Sun-in-Shadow was the character that annoyed me the most. Her quest line being very long also added to my suffering.

This was one of the worst questlines I have played in ESO I am sad to say.
It's not that the writing or events were bad, it was that I was given no choice to not partake in her clearly stupid ideas and plans. Sure you can make the "don't do the quest" argument but everyone wants to experience all the content.

Just feel that one could have been much more enjoyable with alternative choices on who you worked for in each part, especially when you only ever have the option free slaves in Morrowind.

Any way, back on topic. Grrr Naryu.

Being a blatant puppet for someone so that they can climb the social ladder wasn't the most fun of times. What really rubbed me the wrong way was hearing her innocent, frail sounding voice as if she wouldn't hurt a fly, despite her telling me to assassinate someone or travel half way across Morrowind to take part in some sort of scheme.

SantieClaws

We all hope that someday in another part of Tamriel we find Eoki living happy and free

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Turelus

SantieClaws wrote: »

We all hope that someday in another part of Tamriel we find Eoki living happy and free

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

He's happy and free working in my fields now, happy with his new bracelets I got him and free to enjoy the outside air*

* within a miles radius.

SewerFairy

There are npcs I like more than Naryu, but at least she is one of the few Dunmer I don't dislike.

Enslaved

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

This is something I heard as well. It also seems like her character went straight up bipolar.

She used to at least respect your compitency in DB and the base game. From what I'm hearing she seems to do a complete 180 and insult and belittle you at every turn. Maybe it's ment to be the 'morrowind' hero and not the vestige but what sense does that make?

They tailored her behaviors around the "fact" that you are complete newcommer, lvl 1 who never even met her before and did any quest with her. That is lazy design. When I did her questline on brand new sWar, it was somewhat expected, but doing it on my main who did all quests in all dlcs... Seemed quite lazy and lame.

dodgehopper_ESO

Turelus wrote: »

I'm so so on her, I like some aspects but hate others. So you're not alone.

Her need to make everything innuendo and flirt with everything makes me cringe a little, as you said I am also a little annoyed there is no way to make your characters not interested in her.

Her kick butt best of the best side I can kind of accept, but constantly having other NPC's tell you how great she is when your character has literally done all the work is a bit like "really?" for me.

I feel her fan admiration may have elevated her to a place where she become a little too over the top for some.

Would love to know the writers feelings on it all, but I don't know who wrote her.

You state a point about a need to make everything innuendo and flirtation paired with murder. It should come as no shock that she is a Mephala cultist, after all that is what the Morag Tong are. I definitely do feel a bit on the rails with some quests and it isn't just Naryu. It would be fun to flip the bird to all daedra cultists and daedra alike a little more. Some of us want to be diehard Dawnguard types, and others want to lick daedra boots. I get it.

ObsidianMichi

Turelus wrote: »

That's not ever been the definition of Mary Sue I have known. I've always gone off what's on the Mary Sue test site.
http://www.springhole.net/writing/whatisamarysue.htm

It would be interesting for someone to run her through that test, but I feel you would have to have a much firmer knowledge of her story than I do.

That site has a great definition of what a Sue is, and Naryu doesn't fit the definition. Not unless you're willing to stretch out to a bunch of similar characters like Raz, Ayrenn, and others to call them Sues. Which, they're not either. Naryu has an attitude consistent with her culture, but its also a flaw in her personality which leads to catastrophic mistakes (take: the entire Balmora questline for example). You see a lot more of her flaws and limitations running through her quests in Deshaan and Eastmarch than you do in Morrowind, but her personality is consistent throughout.

The problem with the term Mary Sue these days is that its basically become a pejorative term for "female character I don't like". Which... is just intellectually dishonest. Maybe what some people want to have happen to her doesn't occur, but the game will still let you murder her apprentice and her quests on Morrowind are not necessary for completion of the main plot. Even by video game standards, Mary Sue is a hard sell. She's a minor supporting character with a limited role within the plot, and its mentioned she has terrible luck when it comes to picking apprentices.

A Sue is a character whose presence warps the very narrative they exist in, everything in the story bends to them. Everyone likes them, they suffer no narrative consequences for their actions, they've put no time or effort into gaining their skills, but most importantly they disrupt narrative cohesion and their very existence is at the expense of all the other characters they interact with.

In a video game, this means the player character themselves is hamstrung when dealing with the character in a way that goes far beyond what occurs in the Balmora questline. A character where the entire quest is just there to show how awesome they are, making the player character a virtual observer in their story. The player is not just given no options, they're no longer even the hero and forced to watch while the Sue character does stuff for them.

That doesn't happen with Naryu. I get that she's annoying, abrasive, and very much a dark elf but its always made clear she needs the player character's help. The player is given options in how they deal with the problems they're presented with, and both result in real, personal consequences for Naryu within the narrative's context.

So, not a Sue.

Majzkatten

I must confess, I havent noticed her really, before reading this thread. But then imma lady and I guess thats why

Niaver

You discuss the character. It means the character is good.

dodgehopper_ESO

Koensol wrote: »

I don't have that much of a problem with her. On the other hand...

That little apprentice of hers.. my god I hate her. More than once did I have the urge to throw my fist through my monitor and crush that whining, childish, dumb, reckless drama queen. I have never been so annoyed with a character before in ESO

(Warning Spoilers Ahead)
I recommend you do the Betnikh quest arc. The cabin girl (Nicolene) and the captain (Kaleen) alike are extremely annoying. I loathe even to say their names and were it in my power as a character I'd have them keel-hauled or thrown in prison. Overall the rest of their crew is alright though. It does strike me as odd that Captain Kaleen is supposed to be a traditionalist on the side of King Faharajad and yet she's willing to tap into major necromantic forces. It is not only contrary to culture but antithetical to it. The Redguards won't even fight the corpses in Alikir so why should we be delivering that orb for use by them? All in all I don't trust this duo and by at least the Captain's own laws she should be in prison at best or hunted down by the Ashaba.

SilverWF

Am I alone who didn't know Naryu?

IvorySamoan

Banana wrote: »

I like the good looking ones

I'm afraid to say, I'm in the superficial boat to Sovngarde right there with you friend.

aka

I'm one shallow Dunmer

Merlin13KAGL

Can tolerate her over Stuga any day of the week.

Naryu is confident and capable. Stuga is irritating with her constant announcement. "Don't care if you've been off saving the world, you should've been devoting your time to my quest."

The orcish dilemma is no doubt important, but Nirn has lots going on elsewhere, too.

Turelus

ObsidianMichi wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

That's not ever been the definition of Mary Sue I have known. I've always gone off what's on the Mary Sue test site.
http://www.springhole.net/writing/whatisamarysue.htm

It would be interesting for someone to run her through that test, but I feel you would have to have a much firmer knowledge of her story than I do.

That site has a great definition of what a Sue is, and Naryu doesn't fit the definition. Not unless you're willing to stretch out to a bunch of similar characters like Raz, Ayrenn, and others to call them Sues. Which, they're not either. Naryu has an attitude consistent with her culture, but its also a flaw in her personality which leads to catastrophic mistakes (take: the entire Balmora questline for example). You see a lot more of her flaws and limitations running through her quests in Deshaan and Eastmarch than you do in Morrowind, but her personality is consistent throughout.

The problem with the term Mary Sue these days is that its basically become a pejorative term for "female character I don't like". Which... is just intellectually dishonest. Maybe what some people want to have happen to her doesn't occur, but the game will still let you murder her apprentice and her quests on Morrowind are not necessary for completion of the main plot. Even by video game standards, Mary Sue is a hard sell. She's a minor supporting character with a limited role within the plot, and its mentioned she has terrible luck when it comes to picking apprentices.

A Sue is a character whose presence warps the very narrative they exist in, everything in the story bends to them. Everyone likes them, they suffer no narrative consequences for their actions, they've put no time or effort into gaining their skills, but most importantly they disrupt narrative cohesion and their very existence is at the expense of all the other characters they interact with.

In a video game, this means the player character themselves is hamstrung when dealing with the character in a way that goes far beyond what occurs in the Balmora questline. A character where the entire quest is just there to show how awesome they are, making the player character a virtual observer in their story. The player is not just given no options, they're no longer even the hero and forced to watch while the Sue character does stuff for them.

That doesn't happen with Naryu. I get that she's annoying, abrasive, and very much a dark elf but its always made clear she needs the player character's help. The player is given options in how they deal with the problems they're presented with, and both result in real, personal consequences for Naryu within the narrative's context.

So, not a Sue.

Fair points and I will concede on it. I guess I have used Mary Sue as a far more broad meaning in this case and it wasn't deserved (yes everyone someone just admitted they were wrong on the internet, the end times are coming.)

Also re the part about "female character I don't like" I've always applied it to male and female. I've always considered Drizzt a Mary Sue although again my use would probably not be correct under your breakdown above.

+1 insightful.

Banana

Having to work with argonians is much worse

Knootewoot

Forsakiin wrote: »

Sun-in-Shadow was the character that annoyed me the most. Her quest line being very long also added to my suffering.

Indeed, this was the worst questline I ever witnessed. Only her voice alone was a pain to listen at. If I ever could kill a questgiver, this was the person. The quest is tedious and I only finished it because I hoped for that lizard that she would be killed in the end. I even told her the plans of her lizard friend and hoped she would die in a fight. Sadly she survived.

ListerJMC

I'm a bit indifferent towards Naryu honestly, her flirtatiousness is a little much for me at times but I usually find her quests to be fairly enjoyable and she has some great lines here and there.

However, I have not finished her quests in Vvardenfell yet so I can't comment on her actions there.

Edit: Alright, I just finished her quests in Balmora and my opinion of her hasn't really changed.

esotoon

Keldheir wrote: »

She was one of my favourite characters in the base game but after Morrowind she turned into just another boring npc that has me roll my eyes about almost everything she says or does.

She was one of my favourites from the base game too, but her personality seemed to change in the Dark Brotherhood DLC. I haven't tackled Morrowind yet, but judging from the way she spoke when promoting the game, I've been kind of fearing that they have continued down the path of the latter personality.

I would be interested to know if this was down to different writers or if a deliberate change was made for some reason.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Knootewoot wrote: »

I didn't like her either. So for revenge I had her *SPOILER* kill her apprentice and I hope she feels guilty the rest of her life. Also I teabagged her friend.

Dip, dip, potato chip! How do you like me now! Dip, dip, potato chip! Got something cute to say now!! DIP , DIP, POTATO CHIP!!!!

Hallothiel

Quite like Naryu & her flirtatious attitude. Was happy to do more quests with her - one of my favourite. If can do another with both her & Raz again will be very pleased.

But the Sun-in-Shadow storyline did annoy me.

<spoilers> Where was the option to try and convince her that she was suffering from some form of Stockholm syndrome & that she'd be better off with Eoki & the Hist? The only thing I can hope is that she is planning some sort of insurgence from inside House Telvanni which will redeem her present actions, maybe when she finally realises what scum the House is & what they really think of her.

Wolfenbelle

SantieClaws wrote: »

Khajiit is not entirely a fan of the grumpy elf knifey lady either but she seems the natural choice among existing characters to be in Vvardenfell.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Where is Razum-dar when we need him? I love Raz.

ParaNostram

I mean I get her personality grating some people but I think people throw around the term Mary Sue much too quickly. She isn't some overpowered character that everyone loves etc etc, she's an accomplished assassin who has spent likely a human's life time doing her job and getting very good at it. Also what is wrong with a sexually promiscuous character boasting of her accomplishments in that department? Besides it's hyperbolic, nobody literally seduces everyone they come across. I can get that personality trait bothering you though, but a strong confident woman isn't automatically a Mary Sue, OP.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

Khajiit is not entirely a fan of the grumpy elf knifey lady either but she seems the natural choice among existing characters to be in Vvardenfell.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Where is Razum-dar when we need him? I love Raz.

Just pretend that Raz had a magic ring that made him look like Naryu instead of the Queen...

Iluvrien

esotoon wrote: »

Keldheir wrote: »

She was one of my favourite characters in the base game but after Morrowind she turned into just another boring npc that has me roll my eyes about almost everything she says or does.

She was one of my favourites from the base game too, but her personality seemed to change in the Dark Brotherhood DLC. I haven't tackled Morrowind yet, but judging from the way she spoke when promoting the game, I've been kind of fearing that they have continued down the path of the latter personality.

I would be interested to know if this was down to different writers or if a deliberate change was made for some reason.

[Emphasis mine]

This actually struck me. She has felt... darker as we have gone along. I began to wonder if this might be (trying not to get my hopes up) an actual character arc.

Some of the responses, after vanilla, in DB felt a little more fatalistic. A sense of pushing herself too far? Or having seen too much? Like the excesses that she espoused were as a reaction to the constant, ceaseless destruction.

The same in Morrowind. Almost like she was trying to be an ultimate version of the "Naryu Virian" persona: More stabby, more crafty, more flirty. Compensating.

Maybe I am reading too much into it, I haven't completed all of the quests in Vvardenfell (so I don't know if we see her again).

What I would like, is a pay-off. A crisis moment in the her life/career, something more character driven than plot drive. The player finds her on the verge of collapse and moves in one of several ways:

• Push her off the cliff (figuratively/literally)
• Get her through and back to her usual role in the Morag Tong.
• Send her off on a new path, out into the wilds of Tamriel as a free-agent.

Of course this wall, almost certainly, never take place... but a mer can dream, eh?

Prysom

SantieClaws wrote: »

Khajiit is not entirely a fan of the grumpy elf knifey lady either but she seems the natural choice among existing characters to be in Vvardenfell.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Ah this killed me. love the response.

Huyen

No offense, but every dunmer in Morrowind reacts like we are some baffling buffoon, so no news there.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

Khajiit is not entirely a fan of the grumpy elf knifey lady either but she seems the natural choice among existing characters to be in Vvardenfell.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Where is Razum-dar when we need him? I love Raz.

Hopefully Raz shows up later to lead us through the Elswhere chapter.

Grinzzer62

Knootewoot wrote: »

I didn't like her either. So for revenge I had her *SPOILER* kill her apprentice and I hope she feels guilty the rest of her life. Also I teabagged her friend.

This, that son of a Daedra had to go.