Why chapters are nails in the coffin of ESO

TheDarkoil

People complaining Morrowind costs actual money are pathetic. I continually sub for the crafting bag and now the double bank space, I don't own and never will the dlcs because I'll never go back to playing without the crafting bag so subbing is the only way I can play now. For what I pay a month I get more than enough content I am happy with and having completed none, any or all of it does not decrease from it's value. So no I don't expect zos to keep pumping out dlcs or expansions onto eso plus and what £20 is not exactly a lot to ask for an optional expansion.

idk

lordrichter wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Personally, think 2 things changed since Firor made the comments you posted.
1. Business side realized cash shops are great revenue which is why so many MMOs include them.
2. Since the went to Sub/B2P hybrid model with a cash shop the Business side realized that many save a great deal of $$$ merely buying DLCs, especially so when they bought their crowns on sale. With that they increased ESO+ incentives and decided that taking a DLC and adding more to it like BGs and Warden they could require anyone who wants to play it buy it with real money.

Honestly, I think that #2 is more that the business side decided that they did not want to give us big base game features for free. It has nothing to do with DLC or ESO Plus. I think Chapters are about recovering the expense to develop new systems.

This was stated when they changed the business model two years ago. It was expected nothing would be added to the base game which does not change the reasoning behind my post you quoted.

kunquatb16_ESO

TheDarkoil wrote: »

People complaining Morrowind costs actual money are pathetic. I continually sub for the crafting bag and now the double bank space, I don't own and never will the dlcs because I'll never go back to playing without the crafting bag so subbing is the only way I can play now. For what I pay a month I get more than enough content I am happy with and having completed none, any or all of it does not decrease from it's value. So no I don't expect zos to keep pumping out dlcs or expansions onto eso plus and what £20 is not exactly a lot to ask for an optional expansion.

They decided that chapters weren't DLC, so didn't include them in ESO+. What if they did the same with craft-bags, buy for real money only, not crown, not subscribing. They have the right to, and apart from player pressure, there's nothing to stop them. Would you be happy to subscribe after your primary reason for subscribing gets removed?
If not, then why should I? and if so, explain why.

If you don't stand against ESO+ being nurfed, who will stand for you when it get nerfed in your eyes too?

Elsonso

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Personally, think 2 things changed since Firor made the comments you posted.
1. Business side realized cash shops are great revenue which is why so many MMOs include them.
2. Since the went to Sub/B2P hybrid model with a cash shop the Business side realized that many save a great deal of $$$ merely buying DLCs, especially so when they bought their crowns on sale. With that they increased ESO+ incentives and decided that taking a DLC and adding more to it like BGs and Warden they could require anyone who wants to play it buy it with real money.

Honestly, I think that #2 is more that the business side decided that they did not want to give us big base game features for free. It has nothing to do with DLC or ESO Plus. I think Chapters are about recovering the expense to develop new systems.

This was stated when they changed the business model two years ago. It was expected nothing would be added to the base game which does not change the reasoning behind my post you quoted.

Well, over the last two years, they have added a ton of free base game features. I still think that Chapters are a direct result of giving away all of those free things. They need to find a way to monetize this, and Chapters are the answer.

I am going to guess that a lot of people subscribe to ESO Plus. If they had done Vvardenfell as a DLC, most of the people playing the game regularly would have gotten the zone "for free", as an ESO Plus benefit. They are obviously not backing away from Crown Store DLC that are covered by ESO Plus. At least, not yet. They sort of indicated they want to do 3 of them per year, still. So, I can't think that Vvardenfell was anything more than a big zone provided as an incentive to get people to buy Warden and Battlegrounds.

My reasoning is opposite of yours. Vvardenfell is part of a design to get people to start paying for base game updates, not part of a plan to get people to pay for DLC zone content.

JKorr

lagrue wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

By the way - don't blame console players - it was purely on PC players that subs got removed - come time of console release there wasn't even subs anymore because not enough people on PC were subbing - it wasn't working because PC Players made it not work -this was done purely by cheap*sses in the PC community and I resent console players being blamed. We gladly pay subs for other games on console... no idea where that misconstrued idea came from. (FF14 comes to mind, even though I don't play it).

It's a Historical FACT that subs were removed because Console players whined about having to pay Game subs on top of Console Subs. We were there! The subs were removed before console purely in preparation for the console release. Those of us who were there know the facts and you sir obviously were not there.

How and where did we whine about it? Because last time I checked you can't even access the forums without first owning the game and setting up and account. Was ZOS reading the commnt section of Kotaku articles? I'd just really like to know where this info comes from. When I read up on the issue - it seems clear the sub model was failing on PC already, and they didn't have high hopes it would be any better on console.

If you go to the search box at the top of this page and use "console subscription" without the quotes, and look for the earlier entries, you'll see it was discussed a lot. Many console players didn't want to pay the console system fee/xbox gold/psn/whatever its called, in addition to a sub. There were a lot of pc players who didn't want a sub either, so it was sometimes more of a free for all than discussion.

http://kotaku.com/you-wont-need-playstation-plus-for-the-elder-scrolls-o-1510650456

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/bethesda-pushing-microsoft-to-drop-xbl-gold-fee-for-elder-scrolls-online/1100-6413721/

As long as the game had a sub, Sony was willing to drop the psn/whatever requirement. And xbox wouldn't budge. Then buy to play/no sub required was announced. And Sony changed its mind https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/148272/sony-now-requiring-playstation-plus

TheDarkoil

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

TheDarkoil wrote: »

People complaining Morrowind costs actual money are pathetic. I continually sub for the crafting bag and now the double bank space, I don't own and never will the dlcs because I'll never go back to playing without the crafting bag so subbing is the only way I can play now. For what I pay a month I get more than enough content I am happy with and having completed none, any or all of it does not decrease from it's value. So no I don't expect zos to keep pumping out dlcs or expansions onto eso plus and what £20 is not exactly a lot to ask for an optional expansion.

They decided that chapters weren't DLC, so didn't include them in ESO+. What if they did the same with craft-bags, buy for real money only, not crown, not subscribing. They have the right to, and apart from player pressure, there's nothing to stop them. Would you be happy to subscribe after your primary reason for subscribing gets removed?
If not, then why should I? and if so, explain why.

If you don't stand against ESO+ being nurfed, who will stand for you when it get nerfed in your eyes too?

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

TheDarkoil wrote: »

People complaining Morrowind costs actual money are pathetic. I continually sub for the crafting bag and now the double bank space, I don't own and never will the dlcs because I'll never go back to playing without the crafting bag so subbing is the only way I can play now. For what I pay a month I get more than enough content I am happy with and having completed none, any or all of it does not decrease from it's value. So no I don't expect zos to keep pumping out dlcs or expansions onto eso plus and what £20 is not exactly a lot to ask for an optional expansion.

They decided that chapters weren't DLC, so didn't include them in ESO+. What if they did the same with craft-bags, buy for real money only, not crown, not subscribing. They have the right to, and apart from player pressure, there's nothing to stop them. Would you be happy to subscribe after your primary reason for subscribing gets removed?
If not, then why should I? and if so, explain why.

If you don't stand against ESO+ being nurfed, who will stand for you when it get nerfed in your eyes too?

If you are subbing purely for the dlcs then eventually you could pay for them with the crowns you get each month or just buy a copy of gold for like £20 which would be a lot cheaper in the long run.

Tenn60

I don't have a problem with how they make their money, as long as the product, in this case the expansion or chapter, is equal to how much you pay and I'm just not sure morrowind is worth as much as a mount on the crown store! I am joking, but I did notice that today when I was thinking about buying morrowind.

Wifeaggro13

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

By the way - don't blame console players - it was purely on PC players that subs got removed - come time of console release there wasn't even subs anymore because not enough people on PC were subbing - it wasn't working because PC Players made it not work -this was done purely by cheap*sses in the PC community and I resent console players being blamed. We gladly pay subs for other games on console... no idea where that misconstrued idea came from. (FF14 comes to mind, even though I don't play it).

It's a Historical FACT that subs were removed because Console players whined about having to pay Game subs on top of Console Subs. We were there! The subs were removed before console purely in preparation for the console release. Those of us who were there know the facts and you sir obviously were not there.

This is exactly correct, spot on. those of us that were in closed beta followed the game post launch for 24 months know this game was sold PCplayers out for console sales Xbox and sony corps were primarily the ones that fought this because ZOS would not give them a piece of the pie. the stupid thing is the console players want to play a friggin MMO now, they are now the vocal critics wanting the Trials fixed, complaining about the imbalance of builds being DPS-centric, the lack of group content and the vacated PVP campaigns. They are the ones now frustrated with the Monty Hall AA system and lack of depth. in 2015 this game started a very slippery slide towards neverwinter online and its getting close to surpassing it in monetization.

AhPook_Is_Here

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

So all in all, ZoS is not being nearly as greedy as people think, a lot of time,money and effort went in to the expansion and it shows. Sure they have bugs still, and i DO disagree with some of their mount prices in the crown store. But all in all its a solid buy if you are looking for entertainment. I mean 30 bucks is enough to go see 2 movies and get a large popcorn and drink here in California. OOOOR i could buy morrowind where thus far i have gotten over 20 hours of quests and enjoyment.

I went to the movies on the weekend. 2 adult tickets, 1 medium caramel popcorn, 1 jumbo soft drink and 1 jumbo frozen Coke and 2 ice creams was about $85.

Edit:
I'm jelly of your movie pricings.

You say that now but wait till you have to start paying for dialysis once the diabetes kicks in!

Zolron

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

By the way - don't blame console players - it was purely on PC players that subs got removed - come time of console release there wasn't even subs anymore because not enough people on PC were subbing - it wasn't working because PC Players made it not work -this was done purely by cheap*sses in the PC community and I resent console players being blamed. We gladly pay subs for other games on console... no idea where that misconstrued idea came from. (FF14 comes to mind, even though I don't play it).

It's a Historical FACT that subs were removed because Console players whined about having to pay Game subs on top of Console Subs. We were there! The subs were removed before console purely in preparation for the console release. Those of us who were there know the facts and you sir obviously were not there.

This is exactly correct, spot on. those of us that were in closed beta followed the game post launch for 24 months know this game was sold PCplayers out for console sales Xbox and sony corps were primarily the ones that fought this because ZOS would not give them a piece of the pie. the stupid thing is the console players want to play a friggin MMO now, they are now the vocal critics wanting the Trials fixed, complaining about the imbalance of builds being DPS-centric, the lack of group content and the vacated PVP campaigns. They are the ones now frustrated with the Monty Hall AA system and lack of depth. in 2015 this game started a very slippery slide towards neverwinter online and its getting close to surpassing it in monetization.

You've obviously never played Neverwinter Online if you think ZOS is 'getting close to surpassing it in monetization'..... Not even in the same ballpark ..

ProbablePaul

One Tamriel and the mega pack with all five expansions provides new players with more than enough to wet their appetite, doesn't it? Also, doesn't ESO and morrowind come in a single package now? At the end of the day, ZOS has to make money somehow, and I think they have done pretty good to keep most things in the crown store restricted to vanity items - which is ok by me.

I do wish we had more items to earn in-game, rather than everything being in the crown store, like mounts and whatnot.

Balamoor

Chapters aren't a nail in the coffin by any means because people will pay, just like they do for crowns Crates or Vanity items. What turns people off of MMo's aren't decisions like that, it's decisions about mechanics, community management and risk vs reward that makes or breaks an MMO.

ESO is struggling, but not because of chapters.

Azyle1

Balamoor wrote: »

Chapters aren't a nail in the coffin by any means because people will pay, just like they do for crowns Crates or Vanity items. What turns people off of MMo's aren't decisions like that, it's decisions about mechanics, community management and risk vs reward that makes or breaks an MMO.

ESO is struggling, but not because of chapters.

Honestly, it just is the way that ZoS handles things and the bugs. Outside of these things, I personally think ESO is aVERY strong MMO and has great potential. It is also very enjoyable, despite these bugs, but these need to be ironed out.

Elsonso

Balamoor wrote: »

Chapters aren't a nail in the coffin by any means because people will pay, just like they do for crowns Crates or Vanity items. What turns people off of MMo's aren't decisions like that, it's decisions about mechanics, community management and risk vs reward that makes or breaks an MMO.

ESO is struggling, but not because of chapters.

I don't think that ESO is struggling, TBH.

necronomniconb14_ESO

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

They don't make these game because they love us they are for profit companies, I am not a fan of chapters and small content dlc's I prefer the real expansion that give me huge growth in a game and hundreds of hours of new content, and I expect to pay for these things if I like the game.

To much expectations for free these days, and free to play and even buy to play to be has not done the mmo world any good, we the player end up with weak content poor customer service, and just not the best game we could be getting, I prefer a sub as well. If you have played mmo's as long as I have and seen the progression and now the decline you would really understand what I mean games today lack good in depth content they are to easy do not promote community, but players have changed over the years as well a lot of the cool things from the past would most likely never work today.

If your a fan of the game and enjoy I do not understand what the problem is about supporting it and buying the new content, I am very critical of ZOS, because they are not hard enough on cheaters and exploiters, I also think the team of lamebut/wobble are horrible at what they do, but I enjoy the pve and the stories thanks to people like the Lore Master. I have enjoyed the stories in Morrowind so far.

[snip]

lordrichter wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Personally, think 2 things changed since Firor made the comments you posted.
1. Business side realized cash shops are great revenue which is why so many MMOs include them.
2. Since the went to Sub/B2P hybrid model with a cash shop the Business side realized that many save a great deal of $$$ merely buying DLCs, especially so when they bought their crowns on sale. With that they increased ESO+ incentives and decided that taking a DLC and adding more to it like BGs and Warden they could require anyone who wants to play it buy it with real money.

Honestly, I think that #2 is more that the business side decided that they did not want to give us big base game features for free. It has nothing to do with DLC or ESO Plus. I think Chapters are about recovering the expense to develop new systems.

This was stated when they changed the business model two years ago. It was expected nothing would be added to the base game which does not change the reasoning behind my post you quoted.

Well, over the last two years, they have added a ton of free base game features. I still think that Chapters are a direct result of giving away all of those free things. They need to find a way to monetize this, and Chapters are the answer.

I am going to guess that a lot of people subscribe to ESO Plus. If they had done Vvardenfell as a DLC, most of the people playing the game regularly would have gotten the zone "for free", as an ESO Plus benefit. They are obviously not backing away from Crown Store DLC that are covered by ESO Plus. At least, not yet. They sort of indicated they want to do 3 of them per year, still. So, I can't think that Vvardenfell was anything more than a big zone provided as an incentive to get people to buy Warden and Battlegrounds.

My reasoning is opposite of yours. Vvardenfell is part of a design to get people to start paying for base game updates, not part of a plan to get people to pay for DLC zone content.

If you're referring to homestead, that was not free in the least for most people. It sure brought gold prices down quite a ways though.

[Edit for baiting]

mkm1911a1

This may not have anything to do with me, as I'm a console player, but on xbox the subscription isn't required. Is the subscription still required on PC? As I understand, there was never a subscription for consoles.

As for chapters, I only see the one, Morrowind, which was released after 2 years (again, for consoles). If chapters could be considered a "pay wall", one every 2 years (at least on console), ain't much of a pay wall.

Admittedly, I've only been playing for about 7-8 weeks now. I jumped on this game late, almost 2 years after xbox release, but tbh, I can't say I'll still be playing 2-3 years from now.

On consoles I can play with someone who doesn't have any dlc or chapter, so I don't see this stopping new players from joining. Case in point, me. I started 2 years after xbox release and having 4 other dlc's already out didn't stop me.

I guess what I'm saying is, a person who starts a game this old should do some research first. When they learn it's an mmorpg, they can further research if they wanna play an mmorpg. With just a cursory search one can learn there is a microtransaction aspect to mmorpgs. If they still choose to play, it's their choice. If someone doesn't do research, that's on them too.

Point is, imo I don't see chapters as a "pay wall". I see it as the best way to keep me, at least, interested in still playing 2 years from now.

kunquatb16_ESO

mkm1911a1 wrote: »

This may not have anything to do with me, as I'm a console player, but on xbox the subscription isn't required. Is the subscription still required on PC? As I understand, there was never a subscription for consoles.

As for chapters, I only see the one, Morrowind, which was released after 2 years (again, for consoles). If chapters could be considered a "pay wall", one every 2 years (at least on console), ain't much of a pay wall.

Admittedly, I've only been playing for about 7-8 weeks now. I jumped on this game late, almost 2 years after xbox release, but tbh, I can't say I'll still be playing 2-3 years from now.

On consoles I can play with someone who doesn't have any dlc or chapter, so I don't see this stopping new players from joining. Case in point, me. I started 2 years after xbox release and having 4 other dlc's already out didn't stop me.

I guess what I'm saying is, a person who starts a game this old should do some research first. When they learn it's an mmorpg, they can further research if they wanna play an mmorpg. With just a cursory search one can learn there is a microtransaction aspect to mmorpgs. If they still choose to play, it's their choice. If someone doesn't do research, that's on them too.

Point is, imo I don't see chapters as a "pay wall". I see it as the best way to keep me, at least, interested in still playing 2 years from now.

It does, you're a player too

It not require to sub, but one of ESO+'s major features was full game access, with chapters, it lost this feature.
I don't have a problem with micro-transations or the crownstore (some pricing issues, but mainly on aesthetic stuff), but chapter aren't there, or on ESO+. Kinda devalues ESO+ and crowns a bit.

My worry is they continue down this route.

exeeter702

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

mkm1911a1 wrote: »

This may not have anything to do with me, as I'm a console player, but on xbox the subscription isn't required. Is the subscription still required on PC? As I understand, there was never a subscription for consoles.

As for chapters, I only see the one, Morrowind, which was released after 2 years (again, for consoles). If chapters could be considered a "pay wall", one every 2 years (at least on console), ain't much of a pay wall.

Admittedly, I've only been playing for about 7-8 weeks now. I jumped on this game late, almost 2 years after xbox release, but tbh, I can't say I'll still be playing 2-3 years from now.

On consoles I can play with someone who doesn't have any dlc or chapter, so I don't see this stopping new players from joining. Case in point, me. I started 2 years after xbox release and having 4 other dlc's already out didn't stop me.

I guess what I'm saying is, a person who starts a game this old should do some research first. When they learn it's an mmorpg, they can further research if they wanna play an mmorpg. With just a cursory search one can learn there is a microtransaction aspect to mmorpgs. If they still choose to play, it's their choice. If someone doesn't do research, that's on them too.

Point is, imo I don't see chapters as a "pay wall". I see it as the best way to keep me, at least, interested in still playing 2 years from now.

It does, you're a player too

It not require to sub, but one of ESO+'s major features was full game access, with chapters, it lost this feature.
I don't have a problem with micro-transations or the crownstore (some pricing issues, but mainly on aesthetic stuff), but chapter aren't there, or on ESO+. Kinda devalues ESO+ and crowns a bit.

My worry is they continue down this route.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question. If the island of vvardenfell itself, with the quest lines, crafting stations, dropped overworld sets and HoF were a stand alone dlc and thus included with eso+ (let's be honest here, it's the same tier as orsinuim in regards to what we are actually getting) and both the warden and battlegrounds were crown store unlocks equaling roughly 20 bucks each. How would that sit with you?

Under that scenario, what is the best course of action to bundle and market ESO as a whole to potential new players? Do they bundle it and sell it under the title eso:morrowind and have only the morrowind dlc unlocked out of the box / for the new account that is created? Does the warden and bgs come with the bundle? If so how much should the box retail for?

The point is wether you like it or not, zos chose the lesser of 2 evils. They knew they could market the game easier to new players and eaerly adopters that felt jaded and had since left the game, by the approach they took. They created a new entry point into the game and placed all the content within the launch as opposed to selling each of the features peice meal a la carte on the crown store and via eso plus.

And if you think eso should have received the entirety of what morrowind brings to the game then you are delusional.

QuebraRegra

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

I agree quite a bit with your post. Subscribers and those who buy crowns weren't treated very well when it comes to Morrowind.

One thing though, I'm not as concerned about the cumulative cost to new players over time because ZoS can always release new bundles of old content for a low price.

aaaaannnnndddd I'd expect to see a crown price drop on the previous DLC pack then, now that MORROWIND has launched?

kunquatb16_ESO

exeeter702 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

mkm1911a1 wrote: »

This may not have anything to do with me, as I'm a console player, but on xbox the subscription isn't required. Is the subscription still required on PC? As I understand, there was never a subscription for consoles.

As for chapters, I only see the one, Morrowind, which was released after 2 years (again, for consoles). If chapters could be considered a "pay wall", one every 2 years (at least on console), ain't much of a pay wall.

Admittedly, I've only been playing for about 7-8 weeks now. I jumped on this game late, almost 2 years after xbox release, but tbh, I can't say I'll still be playing 2-3 years from now.

On consoles I can play with someone who doesn't have any dlc or chapter, so I don't see this stopping new players from joining. Case in point, me. I started 2 years after xbox release and having 4 other dlc's already out didn't stop me.

I guess what I'm saying is, a person who starts a game this old should do some research first. When they learn it's an mmorpg, they can further research if they wanna play an mmorpg. With just a cursory search one can learn there is a microtransaction aspect to mmorpgs. If they still choose to play, it's their choice. If someone doesn't do research, that's on them too.

Point is, imo I don't see chapters as a "pay wall". I see it as the best way to keep me, at least, interested in still playing 2 years from now.

It does, you're a player too

It not require to sub, but one of ESO+'s major features was full game access, with chapters, it lost this feature.
I don't have a problem with micro-transations or the crownstore (some pricing issues, but mainly on aesthetic stuff), but chapter aren't there, or on ESO+. Kinda devalues ESO+ and crowns a bit.

My worry is they continue down this route.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question. If the island of vvardenfell itself, with the quest lines, crafting stations, dropped overworld sets and HoF were a stand alone dlc and thus included with eso+ (let's be honest here, it's the same tier as orsinuim in regards to what we are actually getting) and both the warden and battlegrounds were crown store unlocks equaling roughly 20 bucks each. How would that sit with you?

Under that scenario, what is the best course of action to bundle and market ESO as a whole to potential new players? Do they bundle it and sell it under the title eso:morrowind and have only the morrowind dlc unlocked out of the box / for the new account that is created? Does the warden and bgs come with the bundle? If so how much should the box retail for?

The point is wether you like it or not, zos chose the lesser of 2 evils. They knew they could market the game easier to new players and eaerly adopters that felt jaded and had since left the game, by the approach they took. They created a new entry point into the game and placed all the content within the launch as opposed to selling each of the features peice meal a la carte on the crown store and via eso plus.

And if you think eso should have received the entirety of what morrowind brings to the game then you are delusional.

ESO+ and crowns are where the vast majority of their income potential lies. They are why they have been able to develop Morrowind. Now people who have bought crowns or subscriptions have no way to use those things to access Morrowind, so have to pay extra.

Meanwhile, new players are getting it either cheap, or free, despite not having yet put money in (excluding the initial purchase required to play).

I'm not saying new players shouldn't get it bundles and cheaper, new players are vital to the game long term, but that ESO+ and crown purchasers shouldn't be excluded, loyal player are vital to the game long term.

And Re your un-bundling question. Why would the prices be so significantly higher on the crown store? If your asking "should Zos just scalp us", no. If you asking should they un-bundle, set sensible fair crown prices, with a full bundle pack that equates to its current cost? yes, yes they should.

Skjoldur

I do enjoy the warden and I do enjoy the new zone. Battlegrounds have been overdue for a long time and I would like to try them, but after seeing all these queue issues, I don't even bother.

Is this "chapter" worth the money? No. The price they ask for gives you raids, several dungeons and pvp arenas in addition to several at least as big zones in expansions of other games.

I would not go as far as to say, that chapters are the final nail in the coffin, but there is a lot amiss. Queues not working, 3 year old bugs, general bad performance, a horrible interface, a subscription that is almost a must for bankspace, crown store mount upgrades that are almost a must if you like to go to Cyrodiil with a new alt and stupid crown crate exclusives.

Art and world design teams are doing a great job, but man, the rest strains my patience.

Loralai_907

At first, yeah, I was kinda miffed that these chapters would be outside of ESO+ and not available to purchase with crowns. But then I remembered that about once a year they have a new grand idea about how things are going to be going forward. So I doubt this will still be the thing next year. I chose the cheaper upgrade, partially because I needed to upgrade two accounts, and partially because for the most part I generally budget out my ESO additional spending by buying bunches of crowns when they go on sale. Which is why I would have liked to be able to buy the upgrade with crowns. I probably would have chosen the more expensive upgrade if I had been able to use crowns.

Going forward, I don't know what to expect. While there was a lot I have liked about the new Morrowind chapter so far, there was not nearly enough of it. I am trying to wrench every drop out of it by getting all of the achievements. The quests were lovely. I love the two new public dungeons and I think its neat that we can get a pet and a costume by farming parts from these two awesome dungeons. I'm not touching Battlegrounds, at least not any time soon. The Warden is just kind of meh to me, and I really have no interest in leveling another character anytime soon. I'm interested to see what this coming year brings. What else will this chapter have? Will there be portions we can buy with crowns? I think we need to see the bigger picture, a year after the initial release of the first chapter we should have a better idea on if this was worth it. And by then, they will probably be on to the next idea anyways.

Rickter

In my opinion there was absolutely nothing wrong with how they marketed and sold Morrowind. It was an enormous amount of content for the price and should be expected in today's day and age.

You should spend your energy complaining about the crown store pricing instead.

Fuxo

Who is going to preorder the next chapter?

alsuran

I agree that they didn't handle the situation very well, and that they promised ESO Plus players something different, they should give them something extra to make up for the removal of one DLC each year.

I doubt the chapters will be a nail in the coffin though. I for one am excited to get at least one larger piece of content each year, or a medium one that is bundled with some new race, class and so on. The more content we get, the better. Having something big to look forward to each year makes the game more exciting for long time players.

As for the content that needs to be paid for to catch up with everything that was launched so far, they will just keep offering discounts and will bundle everything together at a lower price.

I for one am pretty optimistic about the future of ESO.

Elsonso

Fuxo wrote: »

Who is going to preorder the next chapter?

It is 9 months too early to even be thinking about the answer to that question.

Edit: Drats. Now you got me thinking about it.

Wifeaggro13

Zolron wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

lagrue wrote: »

By the way - don't blame console players - it was purely on PC players that subs got removed - come time of console release there wasn't even subs anymore because not enough people on PC were subbing - it wasn't working because PC Players made it not work -this was done purely by cheap*sses in the PC community and I resent console players being blamed. We gladly pay subs for other games on console... no idea where that misconstrued idea came from. (FF14 comes to mind, even though I don't play it).

It's a Historical FACT that subs were removed because Console players whined about having to pay Game subs on top of Console Subs. We were there! The subs were removed before console purely in preparation for the console release. Those of us who were there know the facts and you sir obviously were not there.

This is exactly correct, spot on. those of us that were in closed beta followed the game post launch for 24 months know this game was sold PCplayers out for console sales Xbox and sony corps were primarily the ones that fought this because ZOS would not give them a piece of the pie. the stupid thing is the console players want to play a friggin MMO now, they are now the vocal critics wanting the Trials fixed, complaining about the imbalance of builds being DPS-centric, the lack of group content and the vacated PVP campaigns. They are the ones now frustrated with the Monty Hall AA system and lack of depth. in 2015 this game started a very slippery slide towards neverwinter online and its getting close to surpassing it in monetization.

You've obviously never played Neverwinter Online if you think ZOS is 'getting close to surpassing it in monetization'..... Not even in the same ballpark ..

Lol i have not played it in years. So my reference might be old

CaptainBeerDude

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

So all in all, ZoS is not being nearly as greedy as people think, a lot of time,money and effort went in to the expansion and it shows. Sure they have bugs still, and i DO disagree with some of their mount prices in the crown store. But all in all its a solid buy if you are looking for entertainment. I mean 30 bucks is enough to go see 2 movies and get a large popcorn and drink here in California. OOOOR i could buy morrowind where thus far i have gotten over 20 hours of quests and enjoyment.

I went to the movies on the weekend. 2 adult tickets, 1 medium caramel popcorn, 1 jumbo soft drink and 1 jumbo frozen Coke and 2 ice creams was about $85.

Edit:
I'm jelly of your movie pricings.

You say that now but wait till you have to start paying for dialysis once the diabetes kicks in!

Universal health care FTW!

Those dirty tax payers can cover my dialysis costs.

OT:
If you didn't realise they were going to have to have some sort of expansion pack and monetise it (not crowns, they already have your crown money), then you should never go into the real world. I see companies grabbing at money every day, sometimes in very underhanded and deceitful ways. It's just one the joys of having a bunch of corporations running the world economy.

exeeter702

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

mkm1911a1 wrote: »

This may not have anything to do with me, as I'm a console player, but on xbox the subscription isn't required. Is the subscription still required on PC? As I understand, there was never a subscription for consoles.

As for chapters, I only see the one, Morrowind, which was released after 2 years (again, for consoles). If chapters could be considered a "pay wall", one every 2 years (at least on console), ain't much of a pay wall.

Admittedly, I've only been playing for about 7-8 weeks now. I jumped on this game late, almost 2 years after xbox release, but tbh, I can't say I'll still be playing 2-3 years from now.

On consoles I can play with someone who doesn't have any dlc or chapter, so I don't see this stopping new players from joining. Case in point, me. I started 2 years after xbox release and having 4 other dlc's already out didn't stop me.

I guess what I'm saying is, a person who starts a game this old should do some research first. When they learn it's an mmorpg, they can further research if they wanna play an mmorpg. With just a cursory search one can learn there is a microtransaction aspect to mmorpgs. If they still choose to play, it's their choice. If someone doesn't do research, that's on them too.

Point is, imo I don't see chapters as a "pay wall". I see it as the best way to keep me, at least, interested in still playing 2 years from now.

It does, you're a player too

It not require to sub, but one of ESO+'s major features was full game access, with chapters, it lost this feature.
I don't have a problem with micro-transations or the crownstore (some pricing issues, but mainly on aesthetic stuff), but chapter aren't there, or on ESO+. Kinda devalues ESO+ and crowns a bit.

My worry is they continue down this route.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question. If the island of vvardenfell itself, with the quest lines, crafting stations, dropped overworld sets and HoF were a stand alone dlc and thus included with eso+ (let's be honest here, it's the same tier as orsinuim in regards to what we are actually getting) and both the warden and battlegrounds were crown store unlocks equaling roughly 20 bucks each. How would that sit with you?

Under that scenario, what is the best course of action to bundle and market ESO as a whole to potential new players? Do they bundle it and sell it under the title eso:morrowind and have only the morrowind dlc unlocked out of the box / for the new account that is created? Does the warden and bgs come with the bundle? If so how much should the box retail for?

The point is wether you like it or not, zos chose the lesser of 2 evils. They knew they could market the game easier to new players and eaerly adopters that felt jaded and had since left the game, by the approach they took. They created a new entry point into the game and placed all the content within the launch as opposed to selling each of the features peice meal a la carte on the crown store and via eso plus.

And if you think eso should have received the entirety of what morrowind brings to the game then you are delusional.

And Re your un-bundling question. Why would the prices be so significantly higher on the crown store? If your asking "should Zos just scalp us", no. If you asking should they un-bundle, set sensible fair crown prices, with a full bundle pack that equates to its current cost? yes, yes they should.

Because you can't realistically compare morrowind to the dlc that we have received before it. Vvardenfell itself is comparable to orsinuim, if it were only that, then your morrowind for eso+ members would hold a little more weight. It however contains to additional fairly substantial elements in both a new playable class and an entirely separate game mode.

I'll ask you again, if vvardenfell was free dlc, what would be a reasonable price for the warden class and bgs on the crown store and how would you market that content release on the scale that would justify a super bowl pre game commercial?

I'm not arguing wether or not it is a *** deal for the health of the game. I'm trying to show you how naive and pointless your argument is.

Maxhell

This thread is 6 pages long and no staff ever replied, therefore, it's useless.