Why chapters are nails in the coffin of ESO

Malic

These doom and gloom threads are hysterical.

What game are you all playing? I logged in last night, there were long queues for everything and the hubs were full of players.

What coffin exactly? I think ZOS are scumbags for the bait and switch on subscribers, that argument has been talked to death and its certainly perfectly consistent with how they run their game but, coffin? Death?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSqqIOf3pgk

nhisso

Blah blah blah. Freebs always want more free stuff.
WoW and FFxiv realm reborn are the 2 most populated mmos. Both require a sub and charge for new content. Most games charge for expansions. Why do freebs want to kill every game they play?

Tandor

Gargath wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

but Morrowind is clearly a commercial success judging by the number of people in early access and who only represent a small proportion of the overall number of people who will be playing Morrowind across the platforms when it actually launches.

Have you checked how many players actually play warden class in your guilds, before you named it a commercial success? I see maybe 7-10 % the overall guldies online. Either the warden isn't that popular as ZOS predicted, or the number of copies sold isn't as high as people think. The amount of wardens online is some indicator of Morrowind popularity as the warden was the main novelty.

I can't answer that as I'm not in any guilds, but I can point out that the chapter hasn't launched yet so many players won't even have access to the warden class. Even among PC players not all those who pre-ordered Morrowind will have bothered with scanning the receipt from a third party purchase and completing the form to apply for early access just for the sake of a couple of weeks extra play. I qualified without needing to do anything on my second account for which I bought the digital upgrade, but really couldn't be bothered to do so on my first account where I've pre-ordered a retail copy of the physical collector's edition.

How about we judge the success or failure of a new launch when it's actually happened?

kunquatb16_ESO

nhisso wrote: »

Blah blah blah. Freebs always want more free stuff.
WoW and FFxiv realm reborn are the 2 most populated mmos. Both require a sub and charge for new content. Most games charge for expansions. Why do freebs want to kill every game they play?

You do realize subscriptions aren't free don't you?

Khenarthi

Tandor wrote: »

I can't answer that as I'm not in any guilds, but I can point out that the chapter hasn't launched yet so many players won't even have access to the warden class. Even among PC players not all those who pre-ordered Morrowind will have bothered with scanning the receipt from a third party purchase and completing the form to apply for early access just for the sake of a couple of weeks extra play. I qualified without needing to do anything on my second account for which I bought the digital upgrade, but really couldn't be bothered to do so on my first account where I've pre-ordered a retail copy of the physical collector's edition.

How about we judge the success or failure of a new launch when it's actually happened?

Adding to what @Tandor said, I got Morrowind but decided to focus on my existing characters for now. So the amount of wardens you see around are a poor indication of the chapter's success or failure.

kunquatb16_ESO

Malic wrote: »

These doom and gloom threads are hysterical.

What game are you all playing? I logged in last night, there were long queues for everything and the hubs were full of players.

What coffin exactly? I think ZOS are scumbags for the bait and switch on subscribers, that argument has been talked to death and its certainly perfectly consistent with how they run their game but, coffin? Death?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSqqIOf3pgk

Indeed, blinker yourself to that ever increasing paywall, ever decreasing subs, the fact that if we roll over to under handed tactics like this, they will do it more and more. And lets just pretend like there's nothing wrong, that long term this won't hit that paywall hard, and that ESO+ members don't really matter anyway.

Or, lets look at the reality. Do the maths, year on year rising costs. Year on year, a higher paywall leading to fewer new players. ESO+ giving access to less and less of the game will reduce subs, guaranteed.

"we're not on fire yet" isn't the same as saying "we're not heading for the mouth of a volcano", as much as you may want it to be. Thing might be fine right now.

kunquatb16_ESO

Khenarthi wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

but Morrowind is clearly a commercial success judging by the number of people in early access and who only represent a small proportion of the overall number of people who will be playing Morrowind across the platforms when it actually launches.

Have you checked how many players actually play warden class in your guilds, before you named it a commercial success? I see maybe 7-10 % the overall guldies online. Either the warden isn't that popular as ZOS predicted, or the number of copies sold isn't as high as people think. The amount of wardens online is some indicator of Morrowind popularity as the warden was the main novelty.

I can't answer that as I'm not in any guilds, but I can point out that the chapter hasn't launched yet so many players won't even have access to the warden class. Even among PC players not all those who pre-ordered Morrowind will have bothered with scanning the receipt from a third party purchase and completing the form to apply for early access just for the sake of a couple of weeks extra play. I qualified without needing to do anything on my second account for which I bought the digital upgrade, but really couldn't be bothered to do so on my first account where I've pre-ordered a retail copy of the physical collector's edition.

How about we judge the success or failure of a new launch when it's actually happened?

Tandor wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

but Morrowind is clearly a commercial success judging by the number of people in early access and who only represent a small proportion of the overall number of people who will be playing Morrowind across the platforms when it actually launches.

Have you checked how many players actually play warden class in your guilds, before you named it a commercial success? I see maybe 7-10 % the overall guldies online. Either the warden isn't that popular as ZOS predicted, or the number of copies sold isn't as high as people think. The amount of wardens online is some indicator of Morrowind popularity as the warden was the main novelty.

I can't answer that as I'm not in any guilds, but I can point out that the chapter hasn't launched yet so many players won't even have access to the warden class. Even among PC players not all those who pre-ordered Morrowind will have bothered with scanning the receipt from a third party purchase and completing the form to apply for early access just for the sake of a couple of weeks extra play. I qualified without needing to do anything on my second account for which I bought the digital upgrade, but really couldn't be bothered to do so on my first account where I've pre-ordered a retail copy of the physical collector's edition.

How about we judge the success or failure of a new launch when it's actually happened?

Adding to what @Tandor said, I got Morrowind but decided to focus on my existing character for now. So the amount of wardens you see around are a poor indication of the chapter's success or failure to engage players.

I think it probably will be a short to medium term success. I worry more about the longer term, and about them deciding that more DLC isn't DLC, or on crownstore.

They're on an unhealthy track to paywall city.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Tandor wrote: »

Not only is the game very much alive and continuing to go from strength to strength, but Morrowind is clearly a commercial success judging by the number of people in early access and who only represent a small proportion of the overall number of people who will be playing Morrowind across the platforms when it actually launches.

Funny, I was thinking the exact opposite--zone chat in Vvardenfell has been fairly quiet most nights when I play, and when I hit the World Boss daily I usually have to call for help in zone chat before anyone else shows up--comparing that with Orsinium and the Gold Coast where people usually had two or three groups going at a time. Now to be fair, it is early access...but if the average player knows for certain they're going to buy Morrowind there's no reason not to preorder--the price isn't likely to go down once the preorder period is up, and you get some random extra goodies. Which leads me to believe a lot of people are on the fence or not interested at all.

Korah_Eaglecry

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Also keep in mind, almost every year of its exsistance eso has changed the way it wants to make money. We may never see another chapter.

This is the reality of business. Something doesnt work or it doesnt work as well as they hoped and they move on to other concepts.

Morrowind is far from the first nail in the coffin. This game will go on for years....If games like Star Trek Online which by all means should have died months after its release could limp on for two years before being turned around by Perfect World. ESO will be fine with Bethesda looking over ZOS shoulder. The reality is that Morrowind may hurt ESO in the short term but theres no telling what is in the pipe-line and what may actually turn things around for the game.

Personally I think they need to abandon this Chapter nonsense (though I wouldnt be surprised if they never intended to follow through with yearly Chapter releases). Its quite obvious now that Morrowind is not worthy of being called anything different than DLC. And that the real reason behind this Chapter nonsense was the hope of cashing back in on the original ESO launch and TES:III hype. Thats not to say there isnt anything good in the new zone. But its far from what so many swore up and down it would be.

Korah_Eaglecry

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

If the argument was going to be made that chapters were nails in the coffin of ESO it would be necessary first to establish that the game was dying and secondly that the only chapter released to date (and therefore the only evidence on which to base the argument) was a commercial failure. Not only is the game very much alive and continuing to go from strength to strength, but Morrowind is clearly a commercial success judging by the number of people in early access and who only represent a small proportion of the overall number of people who will be playing Morrowind across the platforms when it actually launches.

My argument against chapter is clear, 1 they will become an increasing paywall, 2, there exclusion from ESO+ depreciates ESO+, therefore making it less likely people will choose ESO+. Additionally, depended on chapter content, such as BOP gear, chapter run the risk of making the game P2W. Morrowind may be a short to medium term success, that doesn't mean chapters are a long term winning strategy.

Proving that Morrowind is a success doesn't prove that chapters in the long term will be. Or that they won't have a overall negative affect on profitability. Short term thinking is the downfall of many an MMO

So you have zero evidence but claim that their evidence of the contrary is not in fact evidence?







DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

kunquatb16_ESO

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

If the argument was going to be made that chapters were nails in the coffin of ESO it would be necessary first to establish that the game was dying and secondly that the only chapter released to date (and therefore the only evidence on which to base the argument) was a commercial failure. Not only is the game very much alive and continuing to go from strength to strength, but Morrowind is clearly a commercial success judging by the number of people in early access and who only represent a small proportion of the overall number of people who will be playing Morrowind across the platforms when it actually launches.

My argument against chapter is clear, 1 they will become an increasing paywall, 2, there exclusion from ESO+ depreciates ESO+, therefore making it less likely people will choose ESO+. Additionally, depended on chapter content, such as BOP gear, chapter run the risk of making the game P2W. Morrowind may be a short to medium term success, that doesn't mean chapters are a long term winning strategy.

Proving that Morrowind is a success doesn't prove that chapters in the long term will be. Or that they won't have a overall negative affect on profitability. Short term thinking is the downfall of many an MMO

So you have zero evidence but claim that their evidence of the contrary is not in fact evidence?







DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

I'm saying that my logic trumps your lack of evidence.

Elsonso

I would encourage people to not assume that Bethesda is totally inept at marketing.

Gargath wrote: »

Have you checked how many players actually play warden class in your guilds, before you named it a commercial success? I see maybe 7-10 % the overall guldies online. Either the warden isn't that popular as ZOS predicted, or the number of copies sold isn't as high as people think. The amount of wardens online is some indicator of Morrowind popularity as the warden was the main novelty.

I would be wary of using guild roster statistics since that only shows the last character that was played. Few people probably have Warden mains, at this point. That said, I present a point of reference. My main guild (500 members) has 71 people online right now and 25% of them are Wardens. Now, 71 people is a fairly light showing, so those numbers do not necessarily represent what I might see when there are one or two hundred online.

Kuwhar

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Khenarthi wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

but Morrowind is clearly a commercial success judging by the number of people in early access and who only represent a small proportion of the overall number of people who will be playing Morrowind across the platforms when it actually launches.

Have you checked how many players actually play warden class in your guilds, before you named it a commercial success? I see maybe 7-10 % the overall guldies online. Either the warden isn't that popular as ZOS predicted, or the number of copies sold isn't as high as people think. The amount of wardens online is some indicator of Morrowind popularity as the warden was the main novelty.

I can't answer that as I'm not in any guilds, but I can point out that the chapter hasn't launched yet so many players won't even have access to the warden class. Even among PC players not all those who pre-ordered Morrowind will have bothered with scanning the receipt from a third party purchase and completing the form to apply for early access just for the sake of a couple of weeks extra play. I qualified without needing to do anything on my second account for which I bought the digital upgrade, but really couldn't be bothered to do so on my first account where I've pre-ordered a retail copy of the physical collector's edition.

How about we judge the success or failure of a new launch when it's actually happened?

Tandor wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

but Morrowind is clearly a commercial success judging by the number of people in early access and who only represent a small proportion of the overall number of people who will be playing Morrowind across the platforms when it actually launches.

Have you checked how many players actually play warden class in your guilds, before you named it a commercial success? I see maybe 7-10 % the overall guldies online. Either the warden isn't that popular as ZOS predicted, or the number of copies sold isn't as high as people think. The amount of wardens online is some indicator of Morrowind popularity as the warden was the main novelty.

I can't answer that as I'm not in any guilds, but I can point out that the chapter hasn't launched yet so many players won't even have access to the warden class. Even among PC players not all those who pre-ordered Morrowind will have bothered with scanning the receipt from a third party purchase and completing the form to apply for early access just for the sake of a couple of weeks extra play. I qualified without needing to do anything on my second account for which I bought the digital upgrade, but really couldn't be bothered to do so on my first account where I've pre-ordered a retail copy of the physical collector's edition.

How about we judge the success or failure of a new launch when it's actually happened?

Adding to what @Tandor said, I got Morrowind but decided to focus on my existing character for now. So the amount of wardens you see around are a poor indication of the chapter's success or failure to engage players.

I think it probably will be a short to medium term success. I worry more about the longer term, and about them deciding that more DLC isn't DLC, or on crownstore.

They're on an unhealthy track to paywall city.

You could make that argument before Morrowind.

Unless you subbed or bought DLC you couldnt access certain content; paywall.

Im not a fan of their decision but you also have to remember, they dont want to lose subs either. So long term they will need to keep incentives in place to subscribe, so i dont think its going to be common practice all of a sudden to make every DLC a "chapter".

Again i dont like what they did but I get it. Its a major draw going back to morrowind so they know its going to sell. If they lose some subs in the process, they will still make out in the end by a wide margin.

By all means complain and protest, but dont make it out to be the deathnell of the game, ESO will be around for a long long time

kunquatb16_ESO

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Also keep in mind, almost every year of its exsistance eso has changed the way it wants to make money. We may never see another chapter.

This is the reality of business. Something doesnt work or it doesnt work as well as they hoped and they move on to other concepts.

Morrowind is far from the first nail in the coffin. This game will go on for years....If games like Star Trek Online which by all means should have died months after its release could limp on for two years before being turned around by Perfect World. ESO will be fine with Bethesda looking over ZOS shoulder. The reality is that Morrowind may hurt ESO in the short term but theres no telling what is in the pipe-line and what may actually turn things around for the game.

Personally I think they need to abandon this Chapter nonsense (though I wouldnt be surprised if they never intended to follow through with yearly Chapter releases). Its quite obvious now that Morrowind is not worthy of being called anything different than DLC. And that the real reason behind this Chapter nonsense was the hope of cashing back in on the original ESO launch and TES:III hype. Thats not to say there isnt anything good in the new zone. But its far from what so many swore up and down it would be.

I hope you're right, ESO is a good game, it could have leg for years and years. We can only tell them what we do and don't like, and hope for the best.

kunquatb16_ESO

Kuwhar wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Khenarthi wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

but Morrowind is clearly a commercial success judging by the number of people in early access and who only represent a small proportion of the overall number of people who will be playing Morrowind across the platforms when it actually launches.

Have you checked how many players actually play warden class in your guilds, before you named it a commercial success? I see maybe 7-10 % the overall guldies online. Either the warden isn't that popular as ZOS predicted, or the number of copies sold isn't as high as people think. The amount of wardens online is some indicator of Morrowind popularity as the warden was the main novelty.

I can't answer that as I'm not in any guilds, but I can point out that the chapter hasn't launched yet so many players won't even have access to the warden class. Even among PC players not all those who pre-ordered Morrowind will have bothered with scanning the receipt from a third party purchase and completing the form to apply for early access just for the sake of a couple of weeks extra play. I qualified without needing to do anything on my second account for which I bought the digital upgrade, but really couldn't be bothered to do so on my first account where I've pre-ordered a retail copy of the physical collector's edition.

How about we judge the success or failure of a new launch when it's actually happened?

Tandor wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

but Morrowind is clearly a commercial success judging by the number of people in early access and who only represent a small proportion of the overall number of people who will be playing Morrowind across the platforms when it actually launches.

Have you checked how many players actually play warden class in your guilds, before you named it a commercial success? I see maybe 7-10 % the overall guldies online. Either the warden isn't that popular as ZOS predicted, or the number of copies sold isn't as high as people think. The amount of wardens online is some indicator of Morrowind popularity as the warden was the main novelty.

I can't answer that as I'm not in any guilds, but I can point out that the chapter hasn't launched yet so many players won't even have access to the warden class. Even among PC players not all those who pre-ordered Morrowind will have bothered with scanning the receipt from a third party purchase and completing the form to apply for early access just for the sake of a couple of weeks extra play. I qualified without needing to do anything on my second account for which I bought the digital upgrade, but really couldn't be bothered to do so on my first account where I've pre-ordered a retail copy of the physical collector's edition.

How about we judge the success or failure of a new launch when it's actually happened?

Adding to what @Tandor said, I got Morrowind but decided to focus on my existing character for now. So the amount of wardens you see around are a poor indication of the chapter's success or failure to engage players.

I think it probably will be a short to medium term success. I worry more about the longer term, and about them deciding that more DLC isn't DLC, or on crownstore.

They're on an unhealthy track to paywall city.

You could make that argument before Morrowind.

Unless you subbed or bought DLC you couldnt access certain content; paywall.

Im not a fan of their decision but you also have to remember, they dont want to lose subs either. So long term they will need to keep incentives in place to subscribe, so i dont think its going to be common practice all of a sudden to make every DLC a "chapter".

Again i dont like what they did but I get it. Its a major draw going back to morrowind so they know its going to sell. If they lose some subs in the process, they will still make out in the end by a wide margin.

By all means complain and protest, but dont make it out to be the deathnell of the game, ESO will be around for a long long time

Subs aren't a paywall to DLC, its in fact most cost effective for a new players, or was before Morrowind. ESO+ used to give full access to the game.

A lot will unsub to offset chapter cost, as short times unsubbed aren't so bad, and ESO+ doesn't give full access now anyway, but costs the same as when it did. They may not lose players short term, but they may lose sub income. An effect that would only be increased by further "chapters.

The deathnell is when the rot sets in, "DLC in all but name loophole" is that rot. Regardless of the fact that Zos has ever right to do it this way if they want.

AhPook_Is_Here

I don't think it's such a bad plan. As an example, they can add DLCs inside a chapter that, if you own the chapter, and have eso+ you can get access to for free, but if you just have eso+ you can't access them; it gives them an alternative to just discounting chapter content a month or two after its release. If chapter sales are low they can bypass this plan and put the DLC in some other zone, put the chapter on sale, then sell exclusive chapter content for crowns like new houses or really hot costumes that you can buy with crowns but need to complete a quest inside the chapter to receive. There is room for a lot of Schwartz in here.

kunquatb16_ESO

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

I don't think it's such a bad plan. As an example, they can add DLCs inside a chapter that, if you own the chapter, and have eso+ you can get access to for free, but if you just have eso+ you can't access them; it gives them an alternative to just discounting chapter content a month or two after its release. If chapter sales are low they can bypass this plan and put the DLC in some other zone, put the chapter on sale, then sell exclusive chapter content for crowns like new houses or really hot costumes that you can buy with crowns but need to complete a quest inside the chapter to receive. There is room for a lot of Schwartz in here.

That solution would lead to ESO+ really not giving access to all DLC, as if they're in a "chapter" that isn't owned, the DLCs there can't be accessed. Unless chapters are included in ESO+, that just further depreciates ESO+.

Edit: but I do agree, there is content "nesting" potential, could be good if done right.

Soella

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Not only is the game very much alive and continuing to go from strength to strength, but Morrowind is clearly a commercial success judging by the number of people in early access and who only represent a small proportion of the overall number of people who will be playing Morrowind across the platforms when it actually launches.

Funny, I was thinking the exact opposite--zone chat in Vvardenfell has been fairly quiet most nights when I play, and when I hit the World Boss daily I usually have to call for help in zone chat before anyone else shows up--comparing that with Orsinium and the Gold Coast where people usually had two or three groups going at a time. Now to be fair, it is early access...but if the average player knows for certain they're going to buy Morrowind there's no reason not to preorder--the price isn't likely to go down once the preorder period is up, and you get some random extra goodies. Which leads me to believe a lot of people are on the fence or not interested at all.

IMHO, it is result that ZOS is prepared for high volume at start and getting up enough instances of Morrowind. Judging by number of players in all trade guilds I am in, roughly 20% if players online spend their time in the new area. IMHO, it is very large - we still need to return to main land for a lot of routines (writs, pledges etc) not to mention it is early access.

Kuwhar

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Kuwhar wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Khenarthi wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

but Morrowind is clearly a commercial success judging by the number of people in early access and who only represent a small proportion of the overall number of people who will be playing Morrowind across the platforms when it actually launches.

Have you checked how many players actually play warden class in your guilds, before you named it a commercial success? I see maybe 7-10 % the overall guldies online. Either the warden isn't that popular as ZOS predicted, or the number of copies sold isn't as high as people think. The amount of wardens online is some indicator of Morrowind popularity as the warden was the main novelty.

I can't answer that as I'm not in any guilds, but I can point out that the chapter hasn't launched yet so many players won't even have access to the warden class. Even among PC players not all those who pre-ordered Morrowind will have bothered with scanning the receipt from a third party purchase and completing the form to apply for early access just for the sake of a couple of weeks extra play. I qualified without needing to do anything on my second account for which I bought the digital upgrade, but really couldn't be bothered to do so on my first account where I've pre-ordered a retail copy of the physical collector's edition.

How about we judge the success or failure of a new launch when it's actually happened?

Tandor wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

but Morrowind is clearly a commercial success judging by the number of people in early access and who only represent a small proportion of the overall number of people who will be playing Morrowind across the platforms when it actually launches.

Have you checked how many players actually play warden class in your guilds, before you named it a commercial success? I see maybe 7-10 % the overall guldies online. Either the warden isn't that popular as ZOS predicted, or the number of copies sold isn't as high as people think. The amount of wardens online is some indicator of Morrowind popularity as the warden was the main novelty.

I can't answer that as I'm not in any guilds, but I can point out that the chapter hasn't launched yet so many players won't even have access to the warden class. Even among PC players not all those who pre-ordered Morrowind will have bothered with scanning the receipt from a third party purchase and completing the form to apply for early access just for the sake of a couple of weeks extra play. I qualified without needing to do anything on my second account for which I bought the digital upgrade, but really couldn't be bothered to do so on my first account where I've pre-ordered a retail copy of the physical collector's edition.

How about we judge the success or failure of a new launch when it's actually happened?

Adding to what @Tandor said, I got Morrowind but decided to focus on my existing character for now. So the amount of wardens you see around are a poor indication of the chapter's success or failure to engage players.

I think it probably will be a short to medium term success. I worry more about the longer term, and about them deciding that more DLC isn't DLC, or on crownstore.

They're on an unhealthy track to paywall city.

You could make that argument before Morrowind.

Unless you subbed or bought DLC you couldnt access certain content; paywall.

Im not a fan of their decision but you also have to remember, they dont want to lose subs either. So long term they will need to keep incentives in place to subscribe, so i dont think its going to be common practice all of a sudden to make every DLC a "chapter".

Again i dont like what they did but I get it. Its a major draw going back to morrowind so they know its going to sell. If they lose some subs in the process, they will still make out in the end by a wide margin.

By all means complain and protest, but dont make it out to be the deathnell of the game, ESO will be around for a long long time

Subs aren't a paywall to DLC, its in fact most cost effective for a new players, or was before Morrowind. ESO+ used to give full access to the game.

A lot will unsub to offset chapter cost, as short times unsubbed aren't so bad, and ESO+ doesn't give full access now anyway, but costs the same as when it did. They may not lose players short term, but they may lose sub income. An effect that would only be increased by further "chapters.

The deathnell is when the rot sets in, "DLC in all but name loophole" is that rot. Regardless of the fact that Zos has ever right to do it this way if they want.

How are subs not a paywall to DLC?

If i dont sub or outright buy them I dont get access to them.

Also the value of your sub didnt go down, your sub still gives you all the same perks as it did before any mention of morrowind, so the value is the same its just not increasing since morrowind isnt included.

How do you know a lot of people will unsub to offset the chapter cost? Thats conjecture.

Some people may do that sure, but "a lot" is an unfounded claim considering what they will lose by dropping sub.

But as i said, ZoS doesnt want to lose subs so its in their best interest to maintain incentives to sub and im sure they will.

Royaji

First of all, Morrowind will not be a paywall for new players since it comes with the base game. Next chapter will come in bundle with Morrowind + Base game. This is how expansions work in all other MMOs. So your paywall argument makes no sense.

About ESO+ loosing value though... They added double bank to ESO+ and Gina mentioned that they are looking into other options to add value to it. We are yet to see if those words are true but for now ESO+ is good value to me. I still have access to all other DLCs and will have access to new dungeons from Q3 and the other DLC in Q4.

DHale

If only I didn't see wardens everywhere to the left to the right .... everywhere.

WalksonGraves

Great first they charge 5k for the lid, 20k for the coffin and now I have to get nails?

Ajantisz

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Well, one way they will likely get around the chapter issue is by releasing "ESO: Murkmire" (for example) next year, which will include the base game and both chapters, probably for the same price that Morrowind is going for in the shops. Repeat so on and so forth each year for each chapter release.

Pretty much same model WoW uses. They are 6 xpacs deep now (real xpacs btw), and the first 5 xpacs are now bundled with teh base game for like $30 (practically like buying ESO Gold edition base game), and the current xpac is full game price on top, plus the forced sub ofc.

Xylphan

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

LorenzoSober wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Well, one way they will likely get around the chapter issue is by releasing "ESO: Murkmire" (for example) next year, which will include the base game and both chapters, probably for the same price that Morrowind is going for in the shops. Repeat so on and so forth each year for each chapter release.

So, best to opt out till they stop releasing them, as you'll get them way cheaper later. As others have said, they not required for advancement, so, why buy them now?

If you can wait that long, sure it is probably the cheapest way to upgrade the game. Like they did this for almost every MMO to date.

I was a subscriber, as this gave me access to the full game, as is the case for any good MMO. It no longer gives me full access, nor does the crownstore, nor do crowns.

And what MMOs would those be? A sub doesn't get you everything in WoW. A sub doesn't get you everything in FFXIV. You still have to buy the expansions. They both have a "crown store". The difference between them and ESO is that you don't need a subscription. If you buy the Morrowind, that's a one time cost. You can leave for a year, come back, and hop right back into the game without paying a cent.

So which MMOs are you talking about that give you everything in the game for a simple subscription?

Sausage

I support Chapters myself, the game is 3 year old, we are not even nearly as attached to the game as we used to be. Strategy change is good.

makreth

they backed it up on Adding a new class Warden (which is fair) and battlegrounds (Which Should be in the base game and not behind a paywall). For futrue "expansion" chapters, if it's just a story driven (like vvardenfell's story which wasn't that long) Then NO that won't be an expansion but rather a DLC. I doubt they'll be releasing one class per year or Trials (1 chapter per year) to justify it as an expansion.

What I foresee is from now on as "expansions" is DLCs but adding some costumes obtainable from quests, some pets, some new motif pages, quests and maybe a new battleground map themed with the new area. This all results in worse quality delivered over the course of time unfortunately.

kunquatb16_ESO

Royaji wrote: »

First of all, Morrowind will not be a paywall for new players since it comes with the base game. Next chapter will come in bundle with Morrowind + Base game. This is how expansions work in all other MMOs. So your paywall argument makes no sense.

About ESO+ loosing value though... They added double bank to ESO+ and Gina mentioned that they are looking into other options to add value to it. We are yet to see if those words are true but for now ESO+ is good value to me. I still have access to all other DLCs and will have access to new dungeons from Q3 and the other DLC in Q4.

If morrowind comes with the base game, I have the base game, why don't I have morrowind?
Because I bought earlier, how does that make sense?

This means new players will be getting the same play experience for less money. Punishing customers for loyalty isn't a good business model.

As ESO+ gives access to less and less of the overall game, will it remain good value?

LadyLavina

edit: deleted b/c i'd rather not touch this discussion

Korah_Eaglecry

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

First of all, Morrowind will not be a paywall for new players since it comes with the base game. Next chapter will come in bundle with Morrowind + Base game. This is how expansions work in all other MMOs. So your paywall argument makes no sense.

About ESO+ loosing value though... They added double bank to ESO+ and Gina mentioned that they are looking into other options to add value to it. We are yet to see if those words are true but for now ESO+ is good value to me. I still have access to all other DLCs and will have access to new dungeons from Q3 and the other DLC in Q4.

If morrowind comes with the base game, I have the base game, why don't I have morrowind?
Because I bought earlier, how does that make sense?

This means new players will be getting the same play experience for less money. Punishing customers for loyalty isn't a good business model.

As ESO+ gives access to less and less of the overall game, will it remain good value?

Youre not a new player...Logic...............

kunquatb16_ESO

LadyLavina wrote: »

edit: deleted b/c i'd rather not touch this discussion

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

First of all, Morrowind will not be a paywall for new players since it comes with the base game. Next chapter will come in bundle with Morrowind + Base game. This is how expansions work in all other MMOs. So your paywall argument makes no sense.

About ESO+ loosing value though... They added double bank to ESO+ and Gina mentioned that they are looking into other options to add value to it. We are yet to see if those words are true but for now ESO+ is good value to me. I still have access to all other DLCs and will have access to new dungeons from Q3 and the other DLC in Q4.

If morrowind comes with the base game, I have the base game, why don't I have morrowind?
Because I bought earlier, how does that make sense?

This means new players will be getting the same play experience for less money. Punishing customers for loyalty isn't a good business model.

As ESO+ gives access to less and less of the overall game, will it remain good value?

Youre not a new player...Logic...............

I am therefore excluded from getting Morrowind with base game at a reduce price. Punished for loyalty, logic.