Why chapters are nails in the coffin of ESO

Valkysas154

Hard to tell right away this expansion had no progression nothing but nerfs wont be preordering the next until i know for 100% its not nothing but nerfs

And most mmorpgs give you all past expansions when you buy the new one we will see what zos dose

mvffins

I'm also hoping it's eventually made available in the Crownstore, to be honest the 1.5k crowns per month from the subscription isn't worth much unless they start offering better deals and items in the store. They might complain that most crown transactions are simply from people sitting on their ESO membership and not buying crowns by itself, but the reason people do this is that there is little incentive to purchase crowns as nothing is worth much in there or at least worth as much as it costs (Besides the DLCs however, which is the reason why Morrowind should be in the Crown store since people will be willing to pay crowns for it).

Banana

I'll take the new content how ever it comes. No complaints here

Pops_ND_Irish

No Complaints here either

notimetocare

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

I'd like to start with the acknowledgement that Zos has the right to use whatever business model it chooses. This however, does not make whatever business model they choose the right one.

The effect the chapters will have going forwards, will be to build up an increasing pay wall to new players. Player base growth is vital to the long term viability of any MMO.
Currently, this paywall is not too onerous for most, being base + chapter + subscription (or crowns) for the full game.
Next year, for new players, it will be base game + 2 chapters + subscription. Year on year, this situation will get worse. Fewer player will be able to afford the whole game, and so fewer will join. This reduces player base grown sharply. As the cost of the full game will become prohibitive for all but the wealthy, and soon after, people leaving will outpace those joining.

There is also an issue with the way they introduced chapters as an idea. The announcement that it would not be included in ESO+, or be available on the crown store was not made until after I paid my last subscription. I know that I am only one of a few for whom this is the case, that is no defence of it. Even if I do subscribe, which is in the balance right now, I will not do so before offsetting the cost of Morrowind.

Chapters are DLCs in all but name, and given the way in which it's been foisted upon players seems craven, mealy mouthed and dishonest. I'd like to reiterate, that Zos has the right to do this, but that this does not make right for them to do so.

If people don't speak out against this, what is to stop them from swapping out another DLC for a “optional content pack” go “it's not a DLC” and not make it available on the crownstore either next year? And then another the year after that?

I encourage other ESO+ members to offset the cost of the Morrowind DLC (calling it what it is) from their subscriptions. In the hopes Zos realize that depreciating rather than appreciating the ESO+ membership will only do their profitability harm. ESO+ Members are the steady stream lifeblood of ESO, and should be treated as such.

Additionally, not making chapters available on the crownstore seems directly target against those that have already bought crowns, with the understanding that all future DLC will be purchasable there. Morrowind is a DLC in all but name, and therefore should be available on the crownstore.

You instantly fall apart at the fact that Morrowind is the base game after launch. No need for the old base game

The17thNinja

For god sakes its 40$. 15$ a month is nothing. If spending such little amounts of money is so horrid, don't buy it. Go play some F2P games and come back when you learn that you get what you pay for. If you decide to quit do the right thing and donate all your gold\mats\valuables to people who actually want to play. Don't let the "Paywall" hit your entitled backside on the way out.

idk

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

People have been calling out that ESO was dying for more than 3 years. I have seen it in other games as well that were still strong years later.

Just because someone personally disagrees with a change does not mean it is the end, or even the beginning of the end for the game.

And there have been game that appeared like they last a decade or more, only to fail after badly managing content releases, and putting up paywalls. There will be those who will claim "this won't happen to ESO, Bethsuda, zenimax ect ect"

And there are those who would say the opposite. That not the point.

What I present is a logical and reasoned argument as to why chapters being excluded from ESO+ and the crown store leads to an increasing paywall, or with "new player discounts" an increasing disincentive to subscribe, and unfairness for loyalty.

Your point doesn't refute any of that.

Claiming the game is coming to an end is meaningless banter with nothing to support the claims. This thread is no different that were claiming the sky was falling 3 years ago.

It is merely someone who does not like the change venting their frustration. Nothing more than that.

Heck, SWTOR is still kicking even though the put much more behind pay walls. Both raids and PvP are locked behind pay walls plus much more. New regular quests are locked behind the subscription for a significant time.

STEVIL

I agree with others, the new base game is morrowind and it includes all but the optional DLC before it - so there is no reason to imagine a year from now a new player will have to buy base game plus morrow plus exp#2 etc.

As for the argument expressed that this somehow punishes existing players because we will have paid more for that when the time comes than a new player starting then, well, i am paying for the ability to play NOW. A new player a year from now will not be playing now, or last year etc like i have.

that is the part of the whole "cheated by expansion" subber argument i dont get. As a subber since launch i know now and knew then that everything i paid was for benefits then, not tomorrow, not a year from them. if i cut my sub tomorrow all those benefits vanish (partially in some cases like bags and bank now.) heck the game itself can shut down tomorrow and all they would have to do is refund any paid-for subscription but nothing for my game purchases themselves. So the argument that anything in your sub allows you access to any future content is just willfully ignoring the "we can change it all anythime" portion of the agreements you signed.

So, likely in a year the poster will have a new doom and gloom scenario to sing forth.

We have heard plenty.

Now, back to the game.

Caligamy_ESO

I'll just leave this here..

"When you're in an Elder Scrolls game, you're in a world. We don't want players to hit monetization fees when they're in the world. It's like, I go into a dungeon, if I don't have access to the dungeon it pops up a window: you don't have access to this, go buy 50 credits. We didn't want that experience. That's not an Elder Scrolls experience." - Matt Firor

F7sus4

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

Why chapters are nails in the coffin of ESO?

Why is claiming false statements a bias?

notimetocare

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

I'll just leave this here..

"When you're in an Elder Scrolls game, you're in a world. We don't want players to hit monetization fees when they're in the world. It's like, I go into a dungeon, if I don't have access to the dungeon it pops up a window: you don't have access to this, go buy 50 credits. We didn't want that experience. That's not an Elder Scrolls experience." - Matt Firor

What exactly is the point with this post? They have to monetize content. No money, no content. They have to be able to promise a return on production cost and manpower.

That said, I am pretty sure this was said prior to B2P

JWKe

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

I agree quite a bit with your post. Subscribers and those who buy crowns weren't treated very well when it comes to Morrowind.

One thing though, I'm not as concerned about the cumulative cost to new players over time because ZoS can always release new bundles of old content for a low price.

By "not treated very well" you mean you guys got shafted. ESO+ members got shafted... as a player I will definitely be VERY VERY cautious with subbing to ESO+ in the future. I think in the short-term by forcing ESO+ memebrs to buy morrowind z0$ made money, but in the long-term I see only negative consequences as many like my self will think to themselves... will we be restricted to the new content despite already subbing?

I've always regarded Zo$ a cash grab company from the beginning and I still see them that way. I believe a leopard never changes its spots. However, that is not to say the game isn't good.

JWKe

Gargath wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

but Morrowind is clearly a commercial success judging by the number of people in early access and who only represent a small proportion of the overall number of people who will be playing Morrowind across the platforms when it actually launches.

Have you checked how many players actually play warden class in your guilds, before you named it a commercial success? I see maybe 7-10 % the overall guldies online. Either the warden isn't that popular as ZOS predicted, or the number of copies sold isn't as high as people think. The amount of wardens online is some indicator of Morrowind popularity as the warden was the main novelty.

I chose not to play the Warden because personally I like everything on one character such as having (9 traits) and (max riding). Having to do it all over again on a new character is a big turn off for me. But you're right the numbers may not be as high as most would think.

STEVIL

JWKe wrote: »

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

I agree quite a bit with your post. Subscribers and those who buy crowns weren't treated very well when it comes to Morrowind.

One thing though, I'm not as concerned about the cumulative cost to new players over time because ZoS can always release new bundles of old content for a low price.

By "not treated very well" you mean you guys got shafted. ESO+ members got shafted... as a player I will definitely be VERY VERY cautious with subbing to ESO+ in the future. I think in the short-term by forcing ESO+ memebrs to buy morrowind z0$ made money, but in the long-term I see only negative consequences as many like my self will think to themselves... will we be restricted to the new content despite already subbing?

I've always regarded Zo$ a cash grab company from the beginning and I still see them that way. I believe a leopard never changes its spots. However, that is not to say the game isn't good.

Well as long as you started with an open mind...

Narvuntien

Calm the hell down the sky is not falling.
This kind of nonsense makes it hard to give good feedback.

Its like you all have post traumatic syndrome after being abused by some other game and now every time anything similar happens in this game you claim its a slippery slope to the death of the game.

I think that the release of the expansion just shows that they are stuck in old ways of thinking. It is concerning that they not fully unlocking the use of thier crown store. What is the point of the store if you can't mix and match your play experience?

Morrowind is packging together three things that could all be released and sold seperatly. Vvardenfel, battlegrounds and warden.

The free to play (or buy to play whatever) model works like reverse insurance. The few big spenders subsidise the many players. And the more players the more big spenders.

HEXENWOLF

I don't know why it continues to baffle me that so many players don't understand MMO subscriptions and expansion fees...

I like free stuff just as much as the next person, but at least familiarize yourself with industry standards and which business models have helped or hindered community growth. Warcraft is still one of the most financially successful MMOs and has a small cash shop, subscription fee, and expansion fee. Its not as popular as it used to be, but Warcraft still hosts one of the largest MMO playerbases.

"New" content is not rolled into old purchases unless specifically stated by the parent company. IE; DLC passes. I don't know why people think "New" = "Free." If you bought and ate a pizza and then wanted more with different toppings - you'd be expected to pay for that. /facepalm

lagrue

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

LorenzoSober wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Well, one way they will likely get around the chapter issue is by releasing "ESO: Murkmire" (for example) next year, which will include the base game and both chapters, probably for the same price that Morrowind is going for in the shops. Repeat so on and so forth each year for each chapter release.

So, best to opt out till they stop releasing them, as you'll get them way cheaper later. As others have said, they not required for advancement, so, why buy them now?

If you can wait that long, sure it is probably the cheapest way to upgrade the game. Like they did this for almost every MMO to date.

I was a subscriber, as this gave me access to the full game, as is the case for any good MMO. It no longer gives me full access, nor does the crownstore, nor do crowns.

So what you're upset you can't buy crowns and then go to the crown store and buy it? How would that be any different than just buying the expansion straight up...

I hear you on the subscriber bit - but really? You're upset it ain't in the crown store?

lagrue

Gargath wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

but Morrowind is clearly a commercial success judging by the number of people in early access and who only represent a small proportion of the overall number of people who will be playing Morrowind across the platforms when it actually launches.

Have you checked how many players actually play warden class in your guilds, before you named it a commercial success? I see maybe 7-10 % the overall guldies online. Either the warden isn't that popular as ZOS predicted, or the number of copies sold isn't as high as people think. The amount of wardens online is some indicator of Morrowind popularity as the warden was the main novelty.

Also failing to account for the fact that the Expansion isn't even officially released yet you nub... even half of PC Players don't have it yet for whatever reason. AKA Amazon are dinks.

kunquatb16_ESO

m

lagrue wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

LorenzoSober wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Well, one way they will likely get around the chapter issue is by releasing "ESO: Murkmire" (for example) next year, which will include the base game and both chapters, probably for the same price that Morrowind is going for in the shops. Repeat so on and so forth each year for each chapter release.

So, best to opt out till they stop releasing them, as you'll get them way cheaper later. As others have said, they not required for advancement, so, why buy them now?

If you can wait that long, sure it is probably the cheapest way to upgrade the game. Like they did this for almost every MMO to date.

I was a subscriber, as this gave me access to the full game, as is the case for any good MMO. It no longer gives me full access, nor does the crownstore, nor do crowns.

So what you're upset you can't buy crowns and then go to the crown store and buy it? How would that be any different than just buying the expansion straight up...

I hear you on the subscriber bit - but really? You're upset it ain't in the crown store?

It's very different, if you're a subscriber, or have bought crown, Zos already has your money. In both cases, you're are prepaying, for future content you may want, from DLC to outfits.

Except now you can't, now you have to use a 3rd method to get full game access. Zos still have that subs/crowns money, but now they no longer give you the potential to access the whole game.

Is it therefore still wise to subscribe, or to pre-buy crowns?
Wouldn't it be better to buy as you need, instead of pre-buying?
Will MMO players increasingly realize this?
Will players choosing to not subscribe, or pre-buy crowns be to Zos's advantage?
As my OP clearly states, Zos have the right to do this, but is it right for them to do so?

Zolron

Galwylin wrote: »

Oh, this game could go on for a long long time. There are so many people that treat ZOS like a charity. They don't expect nothing for their money. They just give because they'll so in love or something. Having played many different MMOs, this is the only one that has nothing in its so called expansion. Its just opening a new area of the map where once you finish the quests there, you might as well love looking at towers because sightseeing is all you'll have. Same really happened with Orsinium. Once I finished it, I think I've been back to try MA and craft some gear. Its just useless to me.

They didn't introduce all the things other MMOs do in expansions. A new class? We have four already doing the exact same thing the same way. No factions to work toward. No token system or new gear that makes the old obsolete. We've been made to have no more that we did at creation. In fact, our stats actually go down. Every thing about it is just ass backwards. Where's the new weapon skills. The new passives. Why can we join one of the Great Houses? Why does Vivec send us on our way knowing we're going right back to what we did months ago if we're making a new character and have been playing. ESO has committed the worse crime any game could. Its becoming boring. Morrowind just exposed how truly a shell it really is.

There are things about Morrowind I like just like the regular game. But its got to grow at some point. Really grow. Not the same thing the same way for years and years. If that keeps on going like this then it will be just those poor charity givers playing. The real actual game may just be the broken PvP and the rest is just useless window dressing to entice some open wallets. I mainly play PvE and its so incredible that after a great main story quest I get set to Auridon to do the same quests I did with my high elf before. I get to do them all again. For nothing but to do them on a different character. I'm collecting skill points to do some half hearted raids? Run vets? That's all there is after three years, the game is this stalled? And one is all you can manage in a new expansion, chapter, dlc or whatever you want to call it? Lazy.

^^^ So much this
Getting a new zone and a class is a good start but not even close to enough for an expansion ( or 'chapter' as they call it ) in my opinion.

The17thNinja wrote: »

For god sakes its 40$. 15$ a month is nothing. If spending such little amounts of money is so horrid, don't buy it. Go play some F2P games and come back when you learn that you get what you pay for. If you decide to quit do the right thing and donate all your gold\mats\valuables to people who actually want to play. Don't let the "Paywall" hit your entitled backside on the way out.

Its not about the money I suspect for most, rather the VALUE you get from it. Hell, even charge double but give me what a proper expansion should have....more than one new class, SEVERAL new weapons/class skill lines, a FEW new zones, basicall everything @Galwylin said

STEVIL

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

m

lagrue wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

LorenzoSober wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Well, one way they will likely get around the chapter issue is by releasing "ESO: Murkmire" (for example) next year, which will include the base game and both chapters, probably for the same price that Morrowind is going for in the shops. Repeat so on and so forth each year for each chapter release.

So, best to opt out till they stop releasing them, as you'll get them way cheaper later. As others have said, they not required for advancement, so, why buy them now?

If you can wait that long, sure it is probably the cheapest way to upgrade the game. Like they did this for almost every MMO to date.

I was a subscriber, as this gave me access to the full game, as is the case for any good MMO. It no longer gives me full access, nor does the crownstore, nor do crowns.

So what you're upset you can't buy crowns and then go to the crown store and buy it? How would that be any different than just buying the expansion straight up...

I hear you on the subscriber bit - but really? You're upset it ain't in the crown store?

It's very different, if you're a subscriber, or have bought crown, Zos already has your money. In both cases, you're are prepaying, for future content you may want, from DLC to outfits.

Except now you can't, now you have to use a 3rd method to get full game access. Zos still have that subs/crowns money, but now they no longer give you the potential to access the whole game.

Is it therefore still wise to subscribe, or to pre-buy crowns?
Wouldn't it be better to buy as you need, instead of pre-buying?
Will MMO players increasingly realize this?
Will players choosing to not subscribe, or pre-buy crowns be to Zos's advantage?
As my OP clearly states, Zos have the right to do this, but is it right for them to do so?

RE the bold - this is incorrect.

A subscription does not guarantee you future anything. it never did. let that sub drop and its gone. All that money you ;aid to sub gets you benefits that are for now... not forever - with some partial exceptions. However, content is not one of those exceptions.

You sub pays for today... not all future.

if you dont believe me, drop it and see.

As for the future, the only thing you know for sure is that you agreed to let ZOS change the terms at anytime without your permission - if you are playing the game that is.

kunquatb16_ESO

STEVIL wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

m

lagrue wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

LorenzoSober wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Well, one way they will likely get around the chapter issue is by releasing "ESO: Murkmire" (for example) next year, which will include the base game and both chapters, probably for the same price that Morrowind is going for in the shops. Repeat so on and so forth each year for each chapter release.

So, best to opt out till they stop releasing them, as you'll get them way cheaper later. As others have said, they not required for advancement, so, why buy them now?

If you can wait that long, sure it is probably the cheapest way to upgrade the game. Like they did this for almost every MMO to date.

I was a subscriber, as this gave me access to the full game, as is the case for any good MMO. It no longer gives me full access, nor does the crownstore, nor do crowns.

So what you're upset you can't buy crowns and then go to the crown store and buy it? How would that be any different than just buying the expansion straight up...

I hear you on the subscriber bit - but really? You're upset it ain't in the crown store?

It's very different, if you're a subscriber, or have bought crown, Zos already has your money. In both cases, you're are prepaying, for future content you may want, from DLC to outfits.

Except now you can't, now you have to use a 3rd method to get full game access. Zos still have that subs/crowns money, but now they no longer give you the potential to access the whole game.

Is it therefore still wise to subscribe, or to pre-buy crowns?
Wouldn't it be better to buy as you need, instead of pre-buying?
Will MMO players increasingly realize this?
Will players choosing to not subscribe, or pre-buy crowns be to Zos's advantage?
As my OP clearly states, Zos have the right to do this, but is it right for them to do so?

RE the bold - this is incorrect.

A subscription does not guarantee you future anything. it never did. let that sub drop and its gone. All that money you ;aid to sub gets you benefits that are for now... not forever - with some partial exceptions. However, content is not one of those exceptions.

You sub pays for today... not all future.

if you dont believe me, drop it and see.

As for the future, the only thing you know for sure is that you agreed to let ZOS change the terms at anytime without your permission - if you are playing the game that is.

I am not questioning Zos's right to do this, but the wisdom of them doing it.

ESO+ when I paid my sub, full access. ESO+ now, while my current sub is still active, no full access. They have that right, but is it wise?

Kuwhar

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

m

lagrue wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

LorenzoSober wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Well, one way they will likely get around the chapter issue is by releasing "ESO: Murkmire" (for example) next year, which will include the base game and both chapters, probably for the same price that Morrowind is going for in the shops. Repeat so on and so forth each year for each chapter release.

So, best to opt out till they stop releasing them, as you'll get them way cheaper later. As others have said, they not required for advancement, so, why buy them now?

If you can wait that long, sure it is probably the cheapest way to upgrade the game. Like they did this for almost every MMO to date.

I was a subscriber, as this gave me access to the full game, as is the case for any good MMO. It no longer gives me full access, nor does the crownstore, nor do crowns.

So what you're upset you can't buy crowns and then go to the crown store and buy it? How would that be any different than just buying the expansion straight up...

I hear you on the subscriber bit - but really? You're upset it ain't in the crown store?

It's very different, if you're a subscriber, or have bought crown, Zos already has your money. In both cases, you're are prepaying, for future content you may want, from DLC to outfits.

Except now you can't, now you have to use a 3rd method to get full game access. Zos still have that subs/crowns money, but now they no longer give you the potential to access the whole game.

Is it therefore still wise to subscribe, or to pre-buy crowns?
Wouldn't it be better to buy as you need, instead of pre-buying?
Will MMO players increasingly realize this?
Will players choosing to not subscribe, or pre-buy crowns be to Zos's advantage?
As my OP clearly states, Zos have the right to do this, but is it right for them to do so?

RE the bold - this is incorrect.

A subscription does not guarantee you future anything. it never did. let that sub drop and its gone. All that money you ;aid to sub gets you benefits that are for now... not forever - with some partial exceptions. However, content is not one of those exceptions.

You sub pays for today... not all future.

if you dont believe me, drop it and see.

As for the future, the only thing you know for sure is that you agreed to let ZOS change the terms at anytime without your permission - if you are playing the game that is.

I am not questioning Zos's right to do this, but the wisdom of them doing it.

ESO+ when I paid my sub, full access. ESO+ now, while my current sub is still active, no full access. They have that right, but is it wise?

Considering they will make a ton of money off it, id say yes it is wise, regardless of whether it was a grimy move or not

Galwylin

The17thNinja wrote: »

For god sakes its 40$. 15$ a month is nothing. If spending such little amounts of money is so horrid, don't buy it. Go play some F2P games and come back when you learn that you get what you pay for. If you decide to quit do the right thing and donate all your gold\mats\valuables to people who actually want to play. Don't let the "Paywall" hit your entitled backside on the way out.

I personally feel its far more entitled to think others should expect the same that you do but I guess we can disagree. I look at in comparison to other games myself. What will my $15 a month give me here as opposed to there and what does this $40 give me as opposed to there. All free to play since I think you might not have experience with such things actually. In all cases, its not in ESOs favor. Even if you're going to copy WoW, like everyone else, then copy their expansions too. Oh, I realize theirs is higher so knock a third off. Heck, use the third you knock off and it still would have had more meat to it than this. One land mass that's barely bigger than the current starting areas, a new character and battlegrounds that are base game enhancements. A new character than may not even get played because some don't want to start another and battlegrounds that also might not get played because some don't PvP. So the only thing for everyone is just under 50 quests. What a rip off even if you are substituting ESO for a real girlfriend.

And before anyone else is confused, many aren't asking for things to be free. If they're on the crown store, obviously its not free. If you're paying a subscription, obviously its not free. Some talk like they are and I guess if daddy is paying for it, maybe it is. What were asking for is, at least I am, is more value for my money. You know, there's a meaning behind the term "more value for your money". Its not some communist ploy to entrap young virgins. I really wish ZOS would learn that there's more to it than providing a trip down memory lane. Especially when they don't seem capable of making anything memorable themselves. I get that its difficult but to just not try is shameful. You've got the pretty pictures and great lore, now create something new and unique. To both the TES world and the gaming world. Don't let the legacy of ESO remain how a company can its own fanbase to money grab.

kunquatb16_ESO

Kuwhar wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

m

lagrue wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

LorenzoSober wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Well, one way they will likely get around the chapter issue is by releasing "ESO: Murkmire" (for example) next year, which will include the base game and both chapters, probably for the same price that Morrowind is going for in the shops. Repeat so on and so forth each year for each chapter release.

So, best to opt out till they stop releasing them, as you'll get them way cheaper later. As others have said, they not required for advancement, so, why buy them now?

If you can wait that long, sure it is probably the cheapest way to upgrade the game. Like they did this for almost every MMO to date.

I was a subscriber, as this gave me access to the full game, as is the case for any good MMO. It no longer gives me full access, nor does the crownstore, nor do crowns.

So what you're upset you can't buy crowns and then go to the crown store and buy it? How would that be any different than just buying the expansion straight up...

I hear you on the subscriber bit - but really? You're upset it ain't in the crown store?

It's very different, if you're a subscriber, or have bought crown, Zos already has your money. In both cases, you're are prepaying, for future content you may want, from DLC to outfits.

Except now you can't, now you have to use a 3rd method to get full game access. Zos still have that subs/crowns money, but now they no longer give you the potential to access the whole game.

Is it therefore still wise to subscribe, or to pre-buy crowns?
Wouldn't it be better to buy as you need, instead of pre-buying?
Will MMO players increasingly realize this?
Will players choosing to not subscribe, or pre-buy crowns be to Zos's advantage?
As my OP clearly states, Zos have the right to do this, but is it right for them to do so?

RE the bold - this is incorrect.

A subscription does not guarantee you future anything. it never did. let that sub drop and its gone. All that money you ;aid to sub gets you benefits that are for now... not forever - with some partial exceptions. However, content is not one of those exceptions.

You sub pays for today... not all future.

if you dont believe me, drop it and see.

As for the future, the only thing you know for sure is that you agreed to let ZOS change the terms at anytime without your permission - if you are playing the game that is.

I am not questioning Zos's right to do this, but the wisdom of them doing it.

ESO+ when I paid my sub, full access. ESO+ now, while my current sub is still active, no full access. They have that right, but is it wise?

Considering they will make a ton of money off it, id say yes it is wise, regardless of whether it was a grimy move or not

Well, in my case, I'm offsetting the chapter cost by leaving gaps in my sub, so chapters won't make them any more from me. Also, I'd only buy crowns now, if I was spending them all right away, so no pre-buying crowns. This means Zos get that money later than they otherwise would. This becomes an "impulse wall" meaning I spend crowns less overall.

Players will find way to protect themselves against sudden unfair changes. An increasing number will opt out of subbing, not pre-buy crowns, and find way to offset costs when changes devalue that which has already been purchased. Generally, they will increasingly distrust, and therefore be far more cautious in what they buy, Zos income potential will decrease.

And, potential new players hearing all this will be less likely to join.

Still a wise strategy?

jircris11

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

Sadly this is a trend on the forums, we have seen countless threads such as this and the replies tend to all be the same. some agreeing others flat out insulting and then the rest much like my self who are "meh" about it. I love eso, i will continue to sub and to buy chapters as it comes out. Compared to other mmos it is a rather cheap model. SWTOR locks content behind subscription, WoWs expansions offer about the same and cost 10-20 bucks more. And then you got game that give the content for free like gw2 with a random expansion thrown in there like HoT.

Bottom line is this, ZoS will do what makes them money, and not nearly as many people will quit due to it as you think. Most forum goers only represent a small portion of the over all player base. So in the end there is no nail in the coffin for eso, perhaps for your drive to play it but that is about it.

Quitting doesn't need to increase if an ever increasing paywall decreases new joiners to a lower number then those that leave. And if ESO+ is depreciated, fewer will subscribe. The more they try to increase income from chapters, the fewer subs they'll get, and it runs an increasing risk of ESO becoming P2W. The more "must have" bop chapter gear there is, the more P2W-esque ESO will become.

These are all unhealthy trends.

Yes but there is not too much unhealthy stuff being tossed in with eso+ or even the crown store. If you step back and look at every other mmo on the market you will see that ESO is actually one of the better ones. Not in terms of customer care but in terms of offer per price, You have WoW/ffxiv that requires you to pay a monthly fee + buy the expansions to even be relevant. You have swtor that requires a sub because of the paw walls in place. You have BDO that has become more and more money dependent or time dependent if you wish to accomplish anything. And then the plethora of other "free" mmos out there. Honestly ESO offers a lot for a simple 15 bucks, and the price of the "chapter" is not outrageous especially for what it offers. I could mention GW2 (a game i still frequent) but they are much like eso, they have convenience in the market, they have a expansion about the same size as morrowind (new class included) and its buy to play.

So all in all, ZoS is not being nearly as greedy as people think, a lot of time,money and effort went in to the expansion and it shows. Sure they have bugs still, and i DO disagree with some of their mount prices in the crown store. But all in all its a solid buy if you are looking for entertainment. I mean 30 bucks is enough to go see 2 movies and get a large popcorn and drink here in California. OOOOR i could buy morrowind where thus far i have gotten over 20 hours of quests and enjoyment.

SanTii.92

Wut 39 agrees. Well that's stupid.

OP you got it all backwards, why a new player would need to buy all content from the start, when they have plenty for 10 dollars, including end game, unlike most other mmos which forces you to buy dlcs for max level.

A new player would just experience the base game and then decide what to purchase afterwards, if any Eso is the least punishing model for the new ones, compared to other titles.

kunquatb16_ESO

jircris11 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

Sadly this is a trend on the forums, we have seen countless threads such as this and the replies tend to all be the same. some agreeing others flat out insulting and then the rest much like my self who are "meh" about it. I love eso, i will continue to sub and to buy chapters as it comes out. Compared to other mmos it is a rather cheap model. SWTOR locks content behind subscription, WoWs expansions offer about the same and cost 10-20 bucks more. And then you got game that give the content for free like gw2 with a random expansion thrown in there like HoT.

Bottom line is this, ZoS will do what makes them money, and not nearly as many people will quit due to it as you think. Most forum goers only represent a small portion of the over all player base. So in the end there is no nail in the coffin for eso, perhaps for your drive to play it but that is about it.

Quitting doesn't need to increase if an ever increasing paywall decreases new joiners to a lower number then those that leave. And if ESO+ is depreciated, fewer will subscribe. The more they try to increase income from chapters, the fewer subs they'll get, and it runs an increasing risk of ESO becoming P2W. The more "must have" bop chapter gear there is, the more P2W-esque ESO will become.

These are all unhealthy trends.

Yes but there is not too much unhealthy stuff being tossed in with eso+ or even the crown store. If you step back and look at every other mmo on the market you will see that ESO is actually one of the better ones. Not in terms of customer care but in terms of offer per price, You have WoW/ffxiv that requires you to pay a monthly fee + buy the expansions to even be relevant. You have swtor that requires a sub because of the paw walls in place. You have BDO that has become more and more money dependent or time dependent if you wish to accomplish anything. And then the plethora of other "free" mmos out there. Honestly ESO offers a lot for a simple 15 bucks, and the price of the "chapter" is not outrageous especially for what it offers. I could mention GW2 (a game i still frequent) but they are much like eso, they have convenience in the market, they have a expansion about the same size as morrowind (new class included) and its buy to play.

So all in all, ZoS is not being nearly as greedy as people think, a lot of time,money and effort went in to the expansion and it shows. Sure they have bugs still, and i DO disagree with some of their mount prices in the crown store. But all in all its a solid buy if you are looking for entertainment. I mean 30 bucks is enough to go see 2 movies and get a large popcorn and drink here in California. OOOOR i could buy morrowind where thus far i have gotten over 20 hours of quests and enjoyment.

A lot of people don't play all those games, as they see them as ripoffs. Saying it doesn't matter that ESO is joining them, but at least it's not so bad yet, isn't an argument for chapters.

It's like saying someone spitting in your face doesn't matter, as other people will cut your face. It matters (Note I'm not saying that MMO pricing models and face slicing actually equate, it's an analogy).

RinaldoGandolphi

They will probably just include the previous chapters into the box set for new players to buy when a new chapter comes out. For existing players they will probably bundle it on the crown store at some point once a new chapter comes out. So it will be easy to get the previous chapters.

ESO will go on as long as they upgrade the engine. That game engine is already getting dated as nothing more then shadow lighting has been added since 2013. Sure they compiled a 64 bit binary, but that's not exactly upgrading the engine. Games like BDO and upcoming AOC have significantly better game engine and will graphically push past ESO while having better performance. Even the upcoming Star Citizen will support DX12 and Vulcan out the box.

It's important ESO starts supporting these technologies sooner rather then later. Direct x 11 will enter extended support in Jan 2018 as Win10 Forward are all Direct X 12. (Win7 and Win 8 enter extended support) Furthermore Nvida and AMD have put most of their development efforts towards Vulcan and DX12, and are supporting DX11 merely as legacy support(simply making sure things work now bare minimium)

The game engine for ESO needs upgraded and soon or technology will pass them by. That's the only thing I could see keeping ESO from lasting as long as it should. WOW was in an era where Microsoft had no reason to upgrade DirectX 11 and was sitting on stagnation for years until AMD forced their hand with Mantle...ESO doesn't have that luxury sadly and they need to start working towards implementing these technologies as a continuing path towards constantly improving their game and performance.

jircris11

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

Sadly this is a trend on the forums, we have seen countless threads such as this and the replies tend to all be the same. some agreeing others flat out insulting and then the rest much like my self who are "meh" about it. I love eso, i will continue to sub and to buy chapters as it comes out. Compared to other mmos it is a rather cheap model. SWTOR locks content behind subscription, WoWs expansions offer about the same and cost 10-20 bucks more. And then you got game that give the content for free like gw2 with a random expansion thrown in there like HoT.

Bottom line is this, ZoS will do what makes them money, and not nearly as many people will quit due to it as you think. Most forum goers only represent a small portion of the over all player base. So in the end there is no nail in the coffin for eso, perhaps for your drive to play it but that is about it.

Quitting doesn't need to increase if an ever increasing paywall decreases new joiners to a lower number then those that leave. And if ESO+ is depreciated, fewer will subscribe. The more they try to increase income from chapters, the fewer subs they'll get, and it runs an increasing risk of ESO becoming P2W. The more "must have" bop chapter gear there is, the more P2W-esque ESO will become.

These are all unhealthy trends.

Yes but there is not too much unhealthy stuff being tossed in with eso+ or even the crown store. If you step back and look at every other mmo on the market you will see that ESO is actually one of the better ones. Not in terms of customer care but in terms of offer per price, You have WoW/ffxiv that requires you to pay a monthly fee + buy the expansions to even be relevant. You have swtor that requires a sub because of the paw walls in place. You have BDO that has become more and more money dependent or time dependent if you wish to accomplish anything. And then the plethora of other "free" mmos out there. Honestly ESO offers a lot for a simple 15 bucks, and the price of the "chapter" is not outrageous especially for what it offers. I could mention GW2 (a game i still frequent) but they are much like eso, they have convenience in the market, they have a expansion about the same size as morrowind (new class included) and its buy to play.

So all in all, ZoS is not being nearly as greedy as people think, a lot of time,money and effort went in to the expansion and it shows. Sure they have bugs still, and i DO disagree with some of their mount prices in the crown store. But all in all its a solid buy if you are looking for entertainment. I mean 30 bucks is enough to go see 2 movies and get a large popcorn and drink here in California. OOOOR i could buy morrowind where thus far i have gotten over 20 hours of quests and enjoyment.

A lot of people don't play all those games, as they see them as ripoffs. Saying it doesn't matter that ESO is joining them, but at least it's not so bad yet, isn't an argument for chapters.

It's like saying someone spitting in your face doesn't matter, as other people will cut your face. It matters (Note I'm not saying that MMO pricing models and face slicing actually equate, it's an analogy).

I never said it did not mater, i even pointed out that some of their acts are a bit ountlandish. But as a former game developer i understand WHY the prices are as they are (in terms of additional content) But from your comments to my threat it lookslike you expect these things to be free or part of your ESO+, somethign that they never agreed to. they said DLC in witch all current DLC is free. morrowind is a chapter, meaning there will be DLC within it as well thus more "free" content for ESO+ members. You can not expect them to add a new class,new lands tons of quests and new armors as well as a battle ground and call it a DLC.

The new class alone would be a dlc, then morrowind as dlc2 then the battlegrounds as dlc3. that's MORE then you paid for morrowind. So i will say it now, despite attempting to be polite and reason with you. you seem to think you are entitled to the chapter because you pay a monthly fee, though correct me if i am wrong. Do we not get a bunch of stuff included with said monthly fee? every mmo in EXISTENCE has "paywalls" i dare you to find one that does not. Now i am done entertaining this conversation, as many who have posted in the past have agreed with what i have said in one way or another. best advice i can give is ether pay the price and enjoy the game or don't and find something better to do with your time. Badgering the forums about how its "money grab" and such won't help ESO go in ANY direction.